PDA

View Full Version : Binder or Incantrix Capstone?


FreakyCheeseMan
2013-04-02, 05:37 PM
So, for my own amusement, I am building a gestalt character that would make any DM weep.

Right now, one side is Wizard 3 / Anima Mage 10 /... this will be easier as a chart.

{table] Side A | Side B
Wizard | Binder
Wizard | Binder
Wizard | Binder
Anima Mage | Master Specialist
Anima Mage | Cleric
Anima Mage | Incantrix
Anima Mage | Incantrix
Anima Mage | Incantrix
Anima Mage | Incantrix
Anima Mage | Incantrix
Anima Mage | Incantrix
Anima Mage | Incantrix
Anima Mage | Incantrix
Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil | Binder
Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil | Binder
Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil | Binder
Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil | Binder
Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil | Binder
Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil | ???
Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil | ??? [/table]

So, the way I see it, for the ???s, I have two options - make them both Binder, or make them both Incantrix.

Binder would get me some minor benefits, plus the ability to bind four vestiges at once, rather than three, and max out my manifester level at 20.

Incantrix would get me a bonus metamagic feat, an extra use of Instant Metamagic per day, and "Improved Metamagic," which most people seem to think is the cat's meow.

My big doubt comes from the fact that Improved Metamagic doesn't actually seem to benefit me - the whole character is built around not paying for metamagic anyway.

Anyway. What do people think? And does anyone see a way to have my cake and eat it too, without losing out on the capstones from Sevenfold Veil or Anima Mage?
Kazyan
2013-04-02, 05:40 PM
Do note that you're not supposed to have PrCs on both sides of the gestalt, and you're most certainly not supposed to have a dual-advancement PrC anywhere. But waiving those, I would go for the Anima Mage capstone. You already have the best goodies from Incantatrix; reduced metamagic is best for blasting builds, and you'll be Presisting via Metamagic Effect instead of casting with the metamagic prepared. Anima Mage gives you that "win the encounter as an immediate action every 5 rounds" thing.

EDIT: Misread. Still, go Binder. Binder is awesome, and you don't actually need more Incantatrix. It won't dual-advance Wizard.
Kuulvheysoon
2013-04-02, 05:43 PM
Now, if I recall my gestalt rules correctly (and I'm not saying I do), can't you not take 2 prestige classes simultaneously, as you're doing from levels 4; 6-14? In addition to that, isn't there a clause about theurge-type PrCs in gestalt?

Otherwise... I'd go with Binder over Incantatrix. Just for the hell of it.
FreakyCheeseMan
2013-04-02, 05:47 PM
...ah, yeah, I hadn't read the gestalt rules anything like thoroughly enough. Good thing this build is just for my own idle amusement.

Also, it's not a question of trading the Anima Mage's capstone - that I'm not giving up. It's just the "Bind Four Vestiges at Once" bit.
Kazyan
2013-04-02, 05:50 PM
I still go be the logic of asking what you need reduced metamagic for, when you have Metamagic Effect and won't be blasting. You could do that with Zceryll and co. instead.
FreakyCheeseMan
2013-04-02, 05:57 PM
I still go be the logic of asking what you need reduced metamagic for, when you have Metamagic Effect and won't be blasting. You could do that with Zceryll and co. instead.

*Nods* Yeah, improved metamagic seemed like the weak option to me, but there's the other two incantrix benefits - another metamagic feat, and another use-per-day of Instant Metamagic.
Piggy Knowles
2013-04-02, 09:40 PM
Go Binder. Or, if you're feeling tough, Tainted Scholar.

(And yeah, by the rules you can't advance two prestige classes simultaneously in gestalt, and dual-advancing PrCs like Anima Mage are strongly discouraged. But I've seen campaigns that don't follow those guidelines, so go wild.)
TheMooch
2013-04-02, 09:57 PM
I don't think you are truely trying to make your DM cry. I don't see a single tier 0 class.

Vecna Blooded Elan – template is bought off, PAOx2 into beholder with assume supernatural ability to qualify for beholder mage

{table] Side A | Side B
Erudite | Warblade
Erudite | Warblade
Erudite | Beholder mage
Warblade | Beholder mage
Cerebremancer | Warblade
Mind Mage | Warblade
Mind Mage | Warblade
Mind Mage | Factorum
Mind Mage | Factorum
Mind Mage | Factorum
Mind Mage | Factorum
Mind Mage | Factorum
Mind Mage | Factorum
Erudite | Factorum
Erudite | Factorum
Erudite | Factorum
Erudite | Factorum
Erudite | Factorum
Erudite | Factorum
Erudite | Factorum[/table]


I think that you may be able to fit some ur-priest and psychic theurge in there as well. I'm also playing around with a dvati build that one half changes into a illithid and one into a beholder to get both tier 0s in the build (not sure if the rules work out that way).
FreakyCheeseMan
2013-04-02, 10:08 PM
Go Binder. Or, if you're feeling tough, Tainted Scholar.

(And yeah, by the rules you can't advance two prestige classes simultaneously in gestalt, and dual-advancing PrCs like Anima Mage are strongly discouraged. But I've seen campaigns that don't follow those guidelines, so go wild.)

I figure that (while the rest of the build is ridiculous) the fact that I only benefit from the dual advancement at one level (the one with Cleric) might convince the DM to allow that. The rest of the time, I'm advancing my Wizard casting with whatever's on Side B, anyway, so Anima Mage is somewhat redundant.