4th level monk. Never played monk but trying it now.

[Drake2009]

Ok so im making a monk and would like some help. I am thinking that he will be human but im open to having an LA 1. Stats are followed And he is a 4th level monk.
Str 18 (was 17 but added a point cause 4th level.)
Dex 18
Con 14
Int 14
Wis 18
Cha 16
Thanks for the advice!

[Gavinfoxx]

Okay... what sources are you allowed, first? Can you retrain your character? Can you retire the character? Can you say, 'yea, I messed up, and would like to change everything about my character'? Granted, your absurdly high stats are helpful, but the Monk is just a plain bad chassis, yaknow?

Anyway, I'm going to give the post I usually give when I see someone doing this combo or something like it.

Step 1. Don't be Monk for anything more than 2 levels.

Step 2. See Step 1.

..........

What happened was that WotC really dropped the ball when they made the Monk. So much that they wrote several ways of doing things that can be considered 'Monk v.2.0'. Here are the major 'replacements' for monk:

1.) Unarmed Swordsage, from Tome of Battle. This is the most obvious Monk 2.0. Go take a look at it; the Unarmed bit is an Adaptation of the character class, and it does everything the monk wanted to do.

2.) Tashalatora Psychic Warrior. What you do with this is take a level or 2 of Monk, the Tashalatora feat from Secrets of Sarlona, and go into Psychic Warrior from Expanded Psionics Handbook or the System Resource Document and never look back. Instead of Psychic Warrior, Ardent (from Complete Psionics) can work well, too.

3.) (Whirling Frenzy [System Resource Document or Unearthed Arcana] or Ferocity [Cityscape Web Enhancement]), Spirit Lion Totem (Complete Champion), Wolf Totem (System Resource Document or Unearthed Arcana) Barbarian. Those are the core changes and acf's of the barbarian class to make it more monk-like. Take Skilled City Dweller-ride for tumble (Cityscape Web Enhancement) and City Brawler (Dragon Magazine #349). Streetfighter (Cityscape Web Enhancement) isn't necessary --it helps--, so you can take it or not as you want. I would suggest Whirling Frenzy over Ferocity. Just get Improved Unarmed Strike, Superior Unarmed Strike (Tome of Battle), a Monk's Belt (DMG or SRD, if your wisdom is high), some light armor (if your wisdom isn't high), a Necklace of Natural attacks (Savage Species), and/or a Fanged Ring (Dragon Magic). In fact, any of these builds could maybe use those items!

4.) Monk 2/Mystic/Sacred Fist. This monk build uses a divine class, and the 'text over table' rule to get full casting for the Sacred Fist prestige class in complete divine. It works okay with Cleric, great with the Mystic class from Dragonlance Campaign Setting (choose a strong melee domain or devotion [complete champion!]), and pretty good with Favored Soul from Complete Divine. Don't take more than 2 levels of Monk. Focus on long-duration self-buffs.

5.) Monk with a huuuuge variety of alternative class features. Namely: Wild Monk (Dragon Magazine #324), Holy Strike (Complete Champion), Invisible Fist (Champions of Valor), Resistant Body (Planar Handbook), who picks up the 'X Wild Shape' (where X is a descriptor) feats from Draconomicon, Book of Exalted Deeds, and Frostburn. Make sure the DM lets you use your unarmed strikes at the end of your natural attacks. Focus on Wild Shape forms that get Pounce. Only works as 'powerful' once you get Wild Shape, and if you use a method of speaking while in Wild Shape (like pearl of speech, magic item compendium), and of getting your gear to work while in Wild Shape as well (Wilding Clasps, or taking it off and putting it on with help, after you shape, etc.). There are other 'sets' of useful alternative class features, but this particular set is my favorite.




Oh, and just a note: NEVER TAKE VOW OF POVERTY. It dramatically lowers your overall power and capability, it neuters your possible versatility, and the DM can never give you gear to help you overcome any of your limitations. FURTHER, it is worse than equivalent Wealth By Level (ie, if you spent the money the game assumes you have, you will come out ahead of where Vow of Poverty would place you!), and it is far worse than even much less wealth by level, provided you spend that money intelligently.

Consider the "List of Necessary Magic Items", here:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187851

This list talks about the sorts of things that characters need to remain competitive. It includes things like Flight, Mind Blank, immunity to Stun, True Seeing, USEFUL teleportation, Freedom of Movement, etc. etc. ... things you will never, ever get as one of the weakest combos in the game -- the VoP Monk.

[Glimbur]

What would you like to do with your monk? What is the rest of the party like? What books do you have available?

Those are some really high stats. I'd grab Improved Natural Attack, Shape Soulmeld (Wormtail Belt), and Martial Study (Sudden Leap). Consider the ACF that lets you turn invisible instead of getting Evasion, I think it's called Invisible Fist. Hit people. Eventually you won't be able to ride on your stats, but for a couple of levels you should be ok.

Or you can aim for Monk 4/ Psychic Warrior 16 using the feats to combine them (Tashalatora, I believe). That gets you more variety and more useful abilities. It's closer to what I think a monk should be, but that's a long argument.

Can you swap your Cha and your Con? Hit points and fort saves are probably more useful than a +1 to a few skills.

[Kalaska'Agathas]

Ok so im making a monk and would like some help. I am thinking that he will be human but im open to having an LA 1. Stats are followed And he is a 4th level monk.
Str 18 (was 17 but added a point cause 4th level.)
Dex 18
Con 14
Int 14
Wis 18
Cha 16
Thanks for the advice!

What would you like your character to do? As has been noted, there are many ways of being more effective as an unarmed character (namely, the somewhat poorly explained Unarmed Swordsage or the Tashalatora PsyWar) than the Monk class itself. If you're not allowed to retrain or retire the character, going for an Ardent with Tashalatora can work very well, as you can make up the lost manifester levels with a feat.

Any of the three mentioned can effectively recreate the class features of the Monk, with more abilities besides. We'll be able to be much more help if we know what you want to do with the character.

Edit: Swordsage'd.

[Drake2009]

.... Were using core rules and have to ask the dm about it if i use something else. Ive always wanted to play a monk and look at the class! It has great saves all around. I can do a bunch of damage with my fist, I never have a dead level where i dont get something and Im totally unaffected by anti magic fields! I've never done one and I just want to try it. Any way ill figure it out by myself then.

[Divide by Zero]

.... Were using core rules and have to ask the dm about it if i use something else. Ive always wanted to play a monk and look at the class! It has great saves all around. I can do a bunch of damage with my fist, I never have a dead level where i dont get something and Im totally unaffected by anti magic fields! I've never done one and I just want to try it. Any way ill figure it out by myself then.

A fighter with Power Attack does more damage on average with the same attack bonus, dead levels don't mean anything when most of the abilities you get are situational at best, and monks are in fact more affected by AMF than any non-caster because of their heavy dependence on magic items to be remotely effective. High saves are nice, but they don't really mean much when you can't do anything back to the enemy.

[Rahdjan]

For a pure monk with those stats, I think you'll be fine. I would possibly look to trip/grapple and take opposing casters. I genuinely hope you have fun with it

[Gavinfoxx]

Actually, you are greatly affected by antimagic fields. Most of your abilities are Supernatural. Go, double check -- see what is Su or not, eh? Also, the math to Monk does not work. You're mitigating this a little with your absurd stats, but you still can't use most of your class features together (you are either getting the benefit of your movement, or the benefit of flurry... which requires you to stand still. Also, your average damage is wayyyy below a full attacking, power attack fighter using two handed weapon, and HUGELY below the Barbarian doing the same). Also, you are expected to be a mainline combatant without full BAB, with low armor class (even with wisdom and dex, you still lag behind well-done armor, as you level up, though your touch AC is possibly a little bit lower), and most of your abilities are done by cheap magical items (seriously! Look at the Wealth By Level chart on page... 135, I think, of the DMG, and look at what magic items in the DMG can do!)

Anyway, if you want to make a competent unarmed combatant in core, I would suggest:

Barbarian 2/Fighter2/Barbarian rest.

Take these feats:

Two weapon fighting
Improved Unarmed Strike
Power Attack
Improved Natural Attack (Unarmed Strike)

Use gauntlets or spiked gauntlets, or unarmed strike that way. Buff your strength all the way up, use a Mithral Full Plate when you can afford it, etc. etc.

And if you really, REALLY want to be good at fighting without a weapon, be a Wild Shape focused Druid.

Or if you want to be REALLY effective in core without being a caster...

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80415

[Karnith]

Im totally unaffected by anti magic fields!Unfortunately, anti-magic fields shut down all supernatural abilities, which means that a monk does indeed lose some of his class abilities while in an AMF. At 4th level, for example, you lose your Ki Strike ability, and at higher levels you lose things like Wholeness of Body, Diamond Body, Abundant Step, Quivering Palm, and Empty Body.

Moreover, every character not capable of casting spells, especially in Core, really does need magic items to be effective against enemies that are level-appropriate at anything but the lowest levels.

[Hiro Protagonest]

For a pure monk with those stats, I think you'll be fine. I would possibly look to trip/grapple and take opposing casters.

I agree with that first part.

[Kalaska'Agathas]

.... Were using core rules and have to ask the dm about it if i use something else. Ive always wanted to play a monk and look at the class! It has great saves all around. I can do a bunch of damage with my fist, I never have a dead level where i dont get something and Im totally unaffected by anti magic fields! I've never done one and I just want to try it. Any way ill figure it out by myself then.

When you say "core rules" do you mean the Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide, and Monster Manual, or do you mean the SRD (www.d20srd.org)?

I know the Monk looks good, but with deeper analysis one finds that their abilities don't work well together, and other classes can do all the things the Monk can, frequently earlier and almost always better.

We're not trying to discourage your playing the character you want to play, I hope you know; rather, we're trying to encourage you to play that character in such a way which will be satisfying for you.

So, what are you after, for this character?

[Razanir]

.... Were using core rules and have to ask the dm about it if i use something else. Ive always wanted to play a monk and look at the class! It has great saves all around. I can do a bunch of damage with my fist, I never have a dead level where i dont get something and Im totally unaffected by anti magic fields! I've never done one and I just want to try it. Any way ill figure it out by myself then.

Check if you can use this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150122). It's jiriku's monk fix that is famous enough that Google asked if I meant "jiriku" when I misspelled his name

[Gavinfoxx]

I second Jiriku's remix. You should look at his remix, and the normal Monk side by side... that will help you realize what is wrong with the normal Monk...

[Darrin]

Ive always wanted to play a monk and look at the class!


This board has a very deep anti-monk bias... and with good reason. As a base class, the monk is poorly designed and doesn't do the "unarmed brawler" concept very well. The entire board will probably try to explain this to you, with varying degrees of vitriol, but basically you're better off doing a "monk" concept by not actually taking any monk levels.


It has great saves all around.


This doesn't contribute anything to the party, nor does it allow you to be effective in combat. At best, you'll be stuck doing corpse retrieval for the rest of the party.



I can do a bunch of damage with my fist,


Your unarmed damage will lag behind the entire party, particularly when they get magic weapons and you're still stuck with fists that can't be easily enchanted. If you do manage to get ahold of a magic monk weapon, it will do less damage than your fists. A bog-standard fighter who takes Improved Unarmed Strike and dumps all his resources into maximizing Str will hit more often and do more damage than you, even though he only gets 1d3 damage with his fists. (Base weapon damage gets less and less important as you level up.)



I never have a dead level where i dont get something


When you get useless class features like Slow Fall and Purity of Body, I consider that a dead level.



and Im totally unaffected by anti magic fields!


Already been addressed. That and most DMs don't use antimagic fields.



I've never done one and I just want to try it. Any way ill figure it out by myself then.

Or you could benefit from our collective experience/wisdom, and talk to your DM about a Monk fix, or some other class that does the "unarmed brawler" concept better than monk.

(Is April Fools Day over yet? Are we still being punk'd on this monk thing?)

[WhatBigTeeth]

I honestly can't tell if this is real or a clone of the sarcastic thread a couple days ago.

For a core monk, Monk 2/Cleric or Druid 18 is an easy way to out-monk the monk class, but with those rolls, you'll probably be able to manage at low levels, even with a weak class.

[Hand_of_Vecna]

I honestly can't tell if this is real or a clone of the sarcastic thread a couple days ago.

I as thinking the same thing. OP, if you scroll down a bit you'll see your exact line of reasoning explained at length, in an April Fool's thread.

[Traab]

Sweet jeebus people. He wants to play a gorram monk, maybe, instead of telling him "monks suck, play anything else" you could actually help him play a monk as good as he can manage? He wasnt asking for opinions on how much monks rule, he was asking for advice on how to best play the class he is interested in.

[Karnith]

Sweet jeebus people. He wants to play a gorram monk, maybe, instead of telling him "monks suck, play anything else" you could actually help him play a monk as good as he can manage? He wasnt asking for opinions on how much monks rule, he was asking for advice on how to best play the class he is interested in.
The funny thing is, if you want to play an effective unarmed combatant in D&D (i.e. a monk), the best way to do so is to take (at most) 2 monk levels and then go into something else. Even in a core-only environment. Because the monk class really isn't very good past level 2 or so. Which is what people have been saying.

[Vknight]

Is. is this trolling?

Anyways...

Monk = Bad

Why

You need
Strength to hit and/or damage, Dexterity for AC and Refelex, Constitution for HP and Fortitude, Wisdom for AC and Will
Want to have Skill points? Intelligence.

3/4 BAB means slower progression. And a d6 damage with your fist is not that great. Especially with the fact bonuses from things like power attack, and other sources out weigh the increased die damage.

Good Save bonuses do not mean much. Seriously they don't
I don't need to target you with a spell you can save against.
Just use a orb or summon some things to pester you well I go do other more important things. How many rounds will it take you to kill the Demon Centipede? 5 ok well it only had 1 more round left in this planar existence, so net lose to me? One spell. Your net lose Hp which you can't easily recover

Slow Fall you must be able to touch something and only works a certain distance
Bonuses to speed are good for running and things but you have to stand still for Flurry. Also the speed bonus is a enchantment bonus...
Ki Strike you fists are treated as magic. Ok but don't get and benefits like a +1
Wholeness of Body is 14 hit points worth of damage when you first get it... You roll a minimum for your Hit points with the current CON 29. Average is 49. Cool half my Hp at worst at best a little under 1/3 my Hp over the course of the day.
Hey Cleric cast cure Light Wounds 1d8+5(6 to 13hp)...

Diamond Body is immunity to poisons. Ok a few levels ago the Fighter picked up a ring that does the same.

What LA 1 race could you be thinking of taking?
Cause unless your able to pay off the LA and even then its not worth it all the time.

[Divide by Zero]

Sweet jeebus people. He wants to play a gorram monk, maybe, instead of telling him "monks suck, play anything else" you could actually help him play a monk as good as he can manage? He wasnt asking for opinions on how much monks rule, he was asking for advice on how to best play the class he is interested in.

The question is whether he wants to play monk the concept or monk the class. If the former, then the advice of many people in this thread is good. If the latter, why?

[Karnith]

The question is whether he wants to play monk the concept or monk the class. If the former, then the advice of many people in this thread is good. If the latter, why?
B-b-b-but I can't play a monk unless the class line on my character sheet says "monk!"

[Traab]

Good lord, I think if I ever need help setting up a character, I will be sure to go elsewhere. God help me if it isnt some awesome epitome of ass kickery, because 99% of the posts will be nothing but mockery over how bad it is and how anything else could do it better, and the last 1% would be me thanking you for destroying any enjoyment I had in my planned character.

[avr]

Good lord, I think if I ever need help setting up a character, I will be sure to go elsewhere. God help me if it isnt some awesome epitome of ass kickery, because 99% of the posts will be nothing but mockery over how bad it is and how anything else could do it better, and the last 1% would be me thanking you for destroying any enjoyment I had in my planned character.
If that's how you take the posts in this thread so far, I don't recommend asking for help anywhere online. Offline you might be able to read people's expressions better.

[Traab]

If that's how you take the posts in this thread so far, I don't recommend asking for help anywhere online. Offline you might be able to read people's expressions better.

How else am I supposed to take, "Monks suck, stop playing as that class and switch over to these instead." Is it really so hard to say, "Monks have several disadvantages, but if thats what you want to play, here are a list of feats and items and whatever you should grab to make the best of it." Let him find out for himself instead of telling him to stop playing what he wants and to go do something else.

[Karnith]

How else am I supposed to take, "Monks suck, stop playing as that class and switch over to these instead." Is it really so hard to say, "Monks have several disadvantages, but if thats what you want to play, here are a list of feats and items and whatever you should grab to make the best of it."Uh... maybe I'm missing something, but that's preeeeetty much what people have been saying/doing, until you started posting in the thread. It just so happens that the best advice for playing a monk (read: unarmed combatant) is usually to multiclass out as soon as possible.

Let him find out for himself instead of telling him to stop playing what he wants and to go do something else.
So, we should let him stand a good chance of being useless in the game that he's playing in, even when we have a good idea of just how bad it can get? That sounds like fun.

[Divide by Zero]

How else am I supposed to take, "Monks suck, stop playing as that class and switch over to these instead." Is it really so hard to say, "Monks have several disadvantages, but if thats what you want to play, here are a list of feats and items and whatever you should grab to make the best of it." Let him find out for himself instead of telling him to stop playing what he wants and to go do something else.
OP hasn't responded since the fifth post, so it's hard to figure out what exactly it is he wants:

The question is whether he wants to play monk the concept or monk the class. If the former, then the advice of many people in this thread is good. If the latter, why?
Generally, I like my characters to be good at what they do. I wouldn't want to roleplay a "master" martial artist who can hardly hit anything and doesn't do much when he does, so if it were me asking I would welcome suggestions to improve on that concept using a more appropriate class.

[ArcturusV]

Well... if you're dead set on playing a monk, I'd look for a few options to see if your DM can allow you.

1) I consider this almost a mandatory upgrade for monks myself. And unlike a lot of monk fixes, it is RAW. That's the Alternate Monk Attack Progression from Oriental Adventures. Basically you get an extra attack every 3 BAB rather than 5. So your final level 20 attack pattern is: 15/12/9/6/3, or 15/15/15/12/9/6/3 when flurrying.

2) Look for Monk PrCs that do things you want to do. Most of them have some requirements that need to be planned out moderately in advance like "Knowledge: Religion, 9 ranks" or something. But the monk PrCs all add the PrC level to monk levels for monk abilities, AND give you generally much more useful features for taking it. At the very least I'd suggest at least one level of Tattooed Monk. Shintao Monk is also a good option to take if you are Lawful Good. Henshin Mystic is good for a one off level, as you gain Scry 1/day for doing it... and Scry tends to be fairly useful, all said and done. Particularly when you're a class who doesn't have magic bullets.

[Urpriest]

Well... if you're dead set on playing a monk, I'd look for a few options to see if your DM can allow you.

1) I consider this almost a mandatory upgrade for monks myself. And unlike a lot of monk fixes, it is RAW. That's the Alternate Monk Attack Progression from Oriental Adventures. Basically you get an extra attack every 3 BAB rather than 5. So your final level 20 attack pattern is: 15/12/9/6/3, or 15/15/15/12/9/6/3 when flurrying.


...that's just how Monk PrCs worked in 3.0. It's entirely subsumed by 3.5's changes to how Flurry works.

[ArcturusV]

I've always stacked them. It's never been a problem. Course they don't say it's PrC specific in the book. And I haven't had the 3.0 PH for, years and years. *shrug* Wrong perhaps I guess. But it's never hurt the game and gave monks mileage they really needed.

[Vknight]

I've always stacked them. It's never been a problem. Course they don't say it's PrC specific in the book. And I haven't had the 3.0 PH for, years and years. *shrug* Wrong perhaps I guess. But it's never hurt the game and gave monks mileage they really needed.

The more millage the better I say with the monk cause it really does need that assistance to be the super cool martial artist

[Figgin of Chaos]

You guys, the OP is probably in a low-op group. Even if their party does turn out unbalanced, they'll probably be having too much fun to notice.

It really is a shame how weak the Monk is by default, though. Oh, 3.5...

[Sith_Happens]

How else am I supposed to take, "Monks suck, stop playing as that class and switch over to these instead." Is it really so hard to say, "Monks have several disadvantages, but if thats what you want to play, here are a list of feats and items and whatever you should grab to make the best of it." Let him find out for himself instead of telling him to stop playing what he wants and to go do something else.

Unfortunately, none of those are in Core, and the OP is playing Core-only.

[Man on Fire]

Ok so im making a monk and would like some help. I am thinking that he will be human but im open to having an LA 1. Stats are followed And he is a 4th level monk.
Str 18 (was 17 but added a point cause 4th level.)
Dex 18
Con 14
Int 14
Wis 18
Cha 16
Thanks for the advice!

Okay, there are few good buils you may do here. I don't know what level you are going to advance for, but there are few cool options:

1) Be Half-orc. After 4th level of Monk go: Half-Orc Paragon 3(good bab, gives you rage and +2 Str)/ Fist of the Forest 3(one of best monk PrCs - with 4 levels of monk you can punch incoropteral creatures, have much higher unarmed damage and get Con to AC)/Bear Warrior 5 (You are now a bear)/Warshaper 5 (you are now mutant bear). Alternatively, take Broodguard Template (http://www.realmshelps.net/monsters/templates/yuanti.shtml) And go: Monk 4/Fighter 1/FotF 3/Bear Warrior 5/Warshaper 5/Frotrager 2 (you are now frosty the snowman).
Another option is Chaos Monk variant from Dragon magazine 335, which you can multiclass with Barbarian freerly. In that Case I would go Chaos Monk 4/Barbarian 1/FotF 3/Bear Warrior 5/Warshaper 5/Frenzied Berserker 2 (you are now fury incarnage)
Either way, what it gives you is that you are KUG-FU BEAR!

2) If you really want to be human, I would suggest combining Monk with Paladin. It can be done with feats Monastic Training: Paladin (allows you to freely multiclass Monk with Paladin, ignoring the usual restrictions), Ascetic Knight (your levels in Monk and Paladin stack for some abilities) and Serenity (ties paladin's Charisma-based abiltiies to Wisdom). From there you can freerly combine the two, or go into Argent Fist from Faithes of Eberoon, also very good PrC for exactly those combos
[You might want switch these Cha and Con scores you have by the way]

3) Go Gish (which is how people here call combining casting and meele). With Monk it can be done using Sacred Fist (lets you combine monk and divine casting class), Eldritch Fist (lets you combine monk and arcane casting class), Psionic Fist (lets you combine monk and psionci class) or talashadora feat (better way to combine monk and psionic class) in the latter case I think that combo with psyhich asasin is my favorite - what's not to like about guy who can punch people so hard it makes them stupid?

4) Unless you go Gish, take Fist of the Forest. That's only 3 levels but it's beautiful PrC

5) Some feats that may interest you:
Superior Unarmed Strike (your monk level counts as 4 levels higher when determining unarmed damage) and Snap Kick.

6) Don't take Vow of Poverty, it's a trap for monks. Unless you'll go into Kensai PrC, but it's still not worth it in my opinion.

7) Some magic items you should invest into:
Boots of Speed, Monk's Belt, periapt of wisdom, braces of armor, amulet of mighty fists

8) as for LA 1 templates there are two good choices:
Half-Minotaur (http://www.realmshelps.net/monsters/templates/half-minotaur.shtml) or Half-Ogre (http://www.realmshelps.net/monsters/templates/half-ogre.shtml) - both are LA 1 both give you +4 Str, both make you Large, which means stronger unarmed strike. Half-Monotaur also gives you +2 Con and Gore attack.

[Drake2009]

Good lord, I think if I ever need help setting up a character, I will be sure to go elsewhere. God help me if it isnt some awesome epitome of ass kickery, because 99% of the posts will be nothing but mockery over how bad it is and how anything else could do it better, and the last 1% would be me thanking you for destroying any enjoyment I had in my planned character.

Actually I have gotten tons of help but it seems the word monk starts an explosion of "monk s are bad!" Seriously this is no troll I really do want a monk but nobody y seems to care it's now just rants.

[Drake2009]

Okay, there are few good buils you may do here. I don't know what level you are going to advance for, but there are few cool options:

1) Be Half-orc. After 4th level of Monk go: Half-Orc Paragon 3(good bab, gives you rage and +2 Str)/ Fist of the Forest 3(one of best monk PrCs - with 4 levels of monk you can punch incoropteral creatures, have much higher unarmed damage and get Con to AC)/Bear Warrior 5 (You are now a bear)/Warshaper 5 (you are now mutant bear). Alternatively, take Broodguard Template (http://www.realmshelps.net/monsters/templates/yuanti.shtml) And go: Monk 4/Fighter 1/FotF 3/Bear Warrior 5/Warshaper 5/Frotrager 2 (you are now frosty the snowman).
Another option is Chaos Monk variant from Dragon magazine 335, which you can multiclass with Barbarian freerly. In that Case I would go Chaos Monk 4/Barbarian 1/FotF 3/Bear Warrior 5/Warshaper 5/Frenzied Berserker 2 (you are now fury incarnage)
Either way, what it gives you is that you are KUG-FU BEAR!

2) If you really want to be human, I would suggest combining Monk with Paladin. It can be done with feats Monastic Training: Paladin (allows you to freely multiclass Monk with Paladin, ignoring the usual restrictions), Ascetic Knight (your levels in Monk and Paladin stack for some abilities) and Serenity (ties paladin's Charisma-based abiltiies to Wisdom). From there you can freerly combine the two, or go into Argent Fist from Faithes of Eberoon, also very good PrC for exactly those combos
[You might want switch these Cha and Con scores you have by the way]

3) Go Gish (which is how people here call combining casting and meele). With Monk it can be done using Sacred Fist (lets you combine monk and divine casting class), Eldritch Fist (lets you combine monk and arcane casting class), Psionic Fist (lets you combine monk and psionci class) or talashadora feat (better way to combine monk and psionic class) in the latter case I think that combo with psyhich asasin is my favorite - what's not to like about guy who can punch people so hard it makes them stupid?

4) Unless you go Gish, take Fist of the Forest. That's only 3 levels but it's beautiful PrC

5) Some feats that may interest you:
Superior Unarmed Strike (your monk level counts as 4 levels higher when determining unarmed damage) and Snap Kick.

6) Don't take Vow of Poverty, it's a trap for monks. Unless you'll go into Kensai PrC, but it's still not worth it in my opinion.

7) Some magic items you should invest into:
Boots of Speed, Monk's Belt, periapt of wisdom, braces of armor, amulet of mighty fists

8) as for LA 1 templates there are two good choices:
Half-Minotaur (http://www.realmshelps.net/monsters/templates/half-minotaur.shtml) or Half-Ogre (http://www.realmshelps.net/monsters/templates/half-ogre.shtml) - both are LA 1 both give you +4 Str, both make you Large, which means stronger unarmed strike. Half-Monotaur also gives you +2 Con and Gore attack.

Thank you. Also this is an experiment and we won't be continuing the gAme this is a one shot. Got to go using kindle and bad charge. Thank you.

[Gwendol]

In core you don't have that many options really. I second the suggestion to switch CON and CHA around, because the Monk hasn't that much to do with a high charisma (even though they have diplomacy on their list of skills, they don't get enough skill points to make it work).

Four levels:

Race: human, half-orc, or something big like goliath, half-giant (powerful build races), half-ogre or half-minotaur (actually Large).

You can pick the standard monk, or try the variant classes found here:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#monkVariantFightingSty les
Passive Way is the recommended choice.

If you go standard I recommend the following bonus feat choices:
1st: Stunning fist
2nd: combat reflexes

For a human monk your feats are:

bonus: Improved grapple (assuming your DEX is +13)
1st: Power attack
3rd: Improved initiative, or improved natural weapon

The benefit of using the PHB races is that you are affected by Enlarge Person (monstrous humanoids are not), and so can gain larger size by downing a potion, or by having a caster in the party cast the spell on you.
You also want to boost your strength as much as possible, and your wisdom.

My suggestion is to "never" flurry, but instead use your quarterstaff 2-handed and power attack when you can. Grappling rules take a little getting use to, and you need to be selective for when to use it, but it can be very effective.

[huttj509]

Actually I have gotten tons of help but it seems the word monk starts an explosion of "monk s are bad!" Seriously this is no troll I really do want a monk but nobody y seems to care it's now just rants.

It's because Monk is a class that often turns out nowhere near as good as it first seems. As such, many folks have encountered it being a 'newbie trap'. I myself ran into issues with it, before encountering internet forums (so it was my own experiences, not things others told me I was having issues with).

While some posts can be a bit vitriolic, most of the responses have been a reaction similar to seeing someone about to step on a wobbly staircase, and calling out quickly to make sure they're aware.

Viewed in that context, the responses of "Monk the class, or Monk the archetype" might make more sense. It's not "Monks are bad and you should feel bad for wanting to play one," it's "Monks aren't really what they say on the tin, but it sure is a shiny tin, do you know what you're getting?"

Heck, the responses wouldn't be as charged if people DIDN'T like the archetype. It's a bright shiny path, leads to an interesting location, but is filled with hidden potholes waiting for people to turn their ankles. And folks who have been bitten can be quick to limp after someone new, to warn them.

[KillingAScarab]

Thank you. Also this is an experiment and we won't be continuing the gAme this is a one shot. Got to go using kindle and bad charge. Thank you.You may wish to edit the first post to include the part about it being a one-shot game so that it is more visible to people when they find the thread.

You may also wish to answer whether or not you're allowed everything released in the System Reference Document as Open Gaming Content, which can be easily looked up at the Hypertext d20 SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/), or if you are limited to the Player's Handbook, the Dungeon Master's Guide (for the magic items, since I don't think you can enter any of those prestige classes at level 4) and the Monster Manual.

If you can use the SRD, there were variant fighting styles (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#monkVariantFightingSty les) released to it as part of Unearthed Arcana. You wouldn't be a high enough level to use the 6th level bonus ability granted by the fighting styles, but you could have a +2 bonus to one skill and different bonus feats (which might affect what 3rd level feat you take).

Since you're trying something different, you might also be interested in trying to take a bloodline (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/bloodlines.htm). If you take a minor or intermediate bloodline, you wouldn't even need to "pay" for it with a bloodline level, you would just get a +2 bonus to a skill and perhaps a bonus feat at 4th level, along with some extra backstory for your character if you feel like it.

Writing as someone who is choosing to play a sub-optimal class despite all of the nay-saying, I hope you find what you're seeking.

[Drake2009]

Ive decided to go with half human half minotaur monk. If you want to help then I could use some good magic items to use. budget is 5,400 gp

[Gavinfoxx]

Wait...

So you do or you do NOT have access to non core things?!?!

Like that aforementioned half-minotaur, from Dragon Magazine?

Which is it?

[Shining Wrath]

OP wants to play a Monk. I intend to help him. All you "Monk sucks!" people are just being meanie-heads.

Here goes:

You'll need to boost all your stats except maybe charisma. Buy things to boost STR, DEX, WIS, CON.
One of your prime advantages is your high speed. You can get anywhere on the battlefield. Therefore: max ranks in Tumble and Jump.
Beg your DM to be able to make a flurry of blows as a standard action. You have nothing to lose by trying.
Enlarge is your friend. If you can get a device made which lets you enlarge yourself, it's worth the gold. If not, befriend someone who can cast it.
Spend no feats on Grapple. Just not a valuable tool.
You get lots of skill points. As observed above, Jump and Tumble. Aside from that, figure out what your party needs. Listen and Spot? Hide and Move Silently? Avoid the CHA based skills as they force you to spend gold on yet ANOTHER ability.
Consider the Superior Unarmed Strike feat from Tome of Battle. Your unarmed strikes will deal damage as though you were 4 levels higher. That's worth about 1.5 to 2 points per strike ... unless you're enlarged (see above). An enlarged level 8 monk with S.U.S. does 3d6 per blow. Launch a flurry, hit thrice, do ~32 damage before any strength or magic bonuses.

[Gwendol]

Healing belt
MW quarterstaff
Bracers of armor
Ring of protection
Potion of enlarge person
Sling and bullets
Spend the remainder on gear.

And don't listen to the complaints on grappling: you'll make it work, just make sure you pick your battles.

[Razanir]

Wait...

So you do or you do NOT have access to non core things?!?!

Like that aforementioned half-minotaur, from Dragon Magazine?

Which is it?

I only have access to the SRD, so I didn't even know there was such a monstrosity! Seriously, do you or do you not have access to things not from the SRD? Whether you do or not, though, I'd seriously consider using jiriku's monk

[eggynack]

OP wants to play a Monk. I intend to help him. All you "Monk sucks!" people are just being meanie-heads.

Here goes:

You'll need to boost all your stats except maybe charisma. Buy things to boost STR, DEX, WIS, CON.
One of your prime advantages is your high speed. You can get anywhere on the battlefield. Therefore: max ranks in Tumble and Jump.
Beg your DM to be able to make a flurry of blows as a standard action. You have nothing to lose by trying.
Enlarge is your friend. If you can get a device made which lets you enlarge yourself, it's worth the gold. If not, befriend someone who can cast it.
Spend no feats on Grapple. Just not a valuable tool.
You get lots of skill points. As observed above, Jump and Tumble. Aside from that, figure out what your party needs. Listen and Spot? Hide and Move Silently? Avoid the CHA based skills as they force you to spend gold on yet ANOTHER ability.
Consider the Superior Unarmed Strike feat from Tome of Battle. Your unarmed strikes will deal damage as though you were 4 levels higher. That's worth about 1.5 to 2 points per strike ... unless you're enlarged (see above). An enlarged level 8 monk with S.U.S. does 3d6 per blow. Launch a flurry, hit thrice, do ~32 damage before any strength or magic bonuses.

Your answer basically reads as "monk sucks" too. According to you, monks need all of their stats to be high, house rules to fix flurrying and a feat from out of core that he doesn't have access to. Even with all of that, there're still some pretty big issues with monks, like how incapable they are of hitting and how their speed and flurrying are so asynergistic. I don't see why the answer to the question, "how do I play a monk that can do something?" can't be "Play either no levels of monk, or at most 2. It's a perfectly valid response. I don't see it as being mean to advise him to avoid D&D traps. Also, to all the folks saying that it's a low-op game, it's possible that that's true but for all we know he's surrounded by a party of wizards. It's probably not the biggest issue in a one-shot, but then why give tons of optimization advice at all? If it doesn't matter how the character stacks up, then it doesn't matter how the character stacks up.

[KillingAScarab]

Ive decided to go with half human half minotaur monk. If you want to help then I could use some good magic items to use. budget is 5,400 gpI don't know a great deal about magic items, but I can tell you the amulet of mighty fists is too expensive (though you might check out the necklace of natural attacks at the bottom of this article (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fc/20060707a)). Half-minotaur will give you a gore attack which you cannot use in a flurry of blows, but might be used in addition to the flurry. I'm sure there's a druid/monk wildshape guide out there to help figure out what can be done with that.

You're also getting the track feat and the ability to track by scent... but survival will not be a class skill and you have a penalty to intelligence, negating the human skill point bonus. One rank of survival will let you track DCs greater than 10, and your higher wisdom will help, but I don't know if it's worth purchasing more ranks. The bonuses to listen and spot could be nice if want to spend your skill points on being a scout, but you won't be hiding as well with a -4.

The template doesn't change your creature type. Enlarge person will work on you since you're still a humanoid, and you'll grow from large to huge, provided you fit in the dungeon and the floor holds over 2 tons. I'm sure someone has grappling advice. Your special monk weapons are mostly light weapons, should you need to damage with something other than your unarmed strike in a grapple.

Special monk weapons should probably be amongst your magic items. Kama and siangham will do as much damage as your 3rd level large monk unarmed strikes, but overcome slashing or piercing damage reduction, respectively. Flurry of blows will let you apply your full strength bonus even when you're hitting with a weapon in each hand (the downside is a flurry with a two-handed weapon still only gets STR, rather than 1.5x STR). Shuriken are cheap, but have a poor range increment and the fact they break like ammunition makes me doubt their usefulness when you could just place the throwing quality on something else. A kama or siangham with throwing would require quick draw when you get more than two attacks from a flurry, but you're still under that.