LGBTAitp #33: The Thread at the end of the Rainbow

[Astrella]

Hello, everyone, and welcome to the thread for the discussion, celebration and support of of everyone who isn't quite heterocisnormative.

Please note that although the title of the thread names only the Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, and Asexual communities, it is intended as an all inclusive environment. Everyone is welcome. L, G, B,T, A, Q, I, A, N, V, P, R, Q, Ω, ♅, everyone. As long as they behave themselves.

If you have a question or two about LGBTA+, you can ask it here! You can ask for advice and support in here.

In addition, many members are willing to give private advice one on one, either through email or PM. The best way to do this is asking for PM help in thread.


Everyone is welcome. Let's try to keep from seeming otherwise.
Keep this topic free of politics and religion. (so, don't violate the board rules, plz)
It's beyond the scope of this thread to discuss whether LGBT is "Right." (And really, most discussions probably should avoid moralizing too much anyway)
Please refrain from posting sexually explicit content. (Keep it friendly as well as board safe :smallsmile:)


Here are the links for the previous threads, where much of use or interest may be found:
LGBT people in the playground (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62225)

LGBT people in the playground - part II (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86066)

LGBTitp - part III (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5663140#post5663140)

LGBTitp 4: We are a family? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129235)

LGBTitp - Part Five (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=143424)

LGBTitp - Part Six (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147832)

LGBTitp - Part Seven (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=157312)

LGBTitp - Part Eight (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167395)

LGBTitp - Part Nine (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172747)

LGBTAitp - Part Ten (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=177253)

LGBTAitp - Part Eleven (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=181683)

LGBTAitp - Part Twelve (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10335967#)

LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192714)

LGBTAitp - Part Fourteen (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=200329)

LGBTAitp - Part Fifteen (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207987)

LGBTAitp - Part Sixteen (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11820872#)

LGBTAitp - Part Seventeen (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219966)

LGBTAitp - Part Eighteen! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223792)

LGBTAitp - Part Nineteen (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=227182)

LGBTAitp - Part Twenty - Critical Hit! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12613347)

LGBTAitp - Part Twenty-One - BLACKJACK! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233833)

LGBTAitP Part 22: The Best There Is (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=236828)

LGBTAitP Part 23: Et tu, ~Bianca? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=239610)

LGBTAitP: Alphabet Soup-with 24 different Vitamins! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13243754)

LGBTAitP part 25: Doing Away With Subtitles (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=249030)

LGBTAitP 26: No Time For Snappy Titles (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=253352)

LGBTAitP 27: Of Shoes, and Ships, and Sealing Wax (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=256951)

LGBTAitP #28: Come Taste the Rainbow! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=14110484#post14110484)

LGBTAitP #29: The Rainbow Outreach Program (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=262926)

LGBTAitP 30: Free Cuddles (Enquire Within) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=267638)

LGBTAitP #31: Cuddles Are On Back Order. Have Some Snuggles! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=272099)

LGBTAitp #32: The Great Plushie Invasion! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=275839)


And, for reference, here is the Thousand&Wordster Dictionary of Commonly Used LGBTAitp Words and Phrases

Lagerbeta: A fine brewski to be drunk by queers and allies.
LGBT: Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Trans*
Trans*: Transsexual and Transgender
LGBTA: LGBT+Asexual/Allies
QUILTBAG: Q - Queer and Questioning
U - Unidentified
I - Intersex
L - Lesbian
T - Transgender, Transexual
B - Bisexual
A - Asexual
G - Gay, Genderqueer
Allies: Straight people that support equality for sexuality and gender minorities.
MtF: Male-to-Female: A woman born with male nibblies, who may or may not be seeking HRT and/or SRS. (AKA: trans woman)
FtM: Female-to-Male: A man born with female nibblies, who may or may not be seeking HRT and/or SRS. (AKA: trans man)
GQ: Genderqueer.
CS: Cis-sexual: sex and gender match (a male with male nibblies, a female with female nibblies.
TS: Transsexual: Sex and gender disparity.
HRT: Hormone replacement therapy. MtF's take more progestrogens and oestrogens and FtM's take more testosterone (I think?)
SRS: Sex Reassignment Surgery: Surgery to replace/transform a vagina into a penis, or vice versa depending on direction. Mastectomies or plastic surgery may be used on breasts.
FFS: Facial Feminization Surgery: Plastic surgery to reduce chin/nose/cheekbones. not very common.
AFAB/AMAB: Assigned Female/Male at Birth
FAAB/MAAB: Female/Male Assigned at Birth.


Man: A cisman or transman. Male.
Woman: A ciswoman or transwoman. Female.
Androgyne: Gender Identity with male and female aspects.
Genderfluid: Someone who fluctuates between male and female.
Agendered: Someone who feels neither male nor female.
Third-gendered: Someone who fits in a local society's third gender, usually male performing female tasks, occasionally vice versa.
Masculine: Something generally associated with men.
Feminine: Something generally associated with women.

Lesbian: A woman who is attracted to women.
Gay: A man who is attracted to men.
Homosexual: A person who is attracted to members of their gender.
Heterosexual: A person who is attracted to members of the opposite gender.
Bisexual: A person who is attracted to two genders (usually men and women, sometimes transgender instead of one of those).
Pansexual: A person who is attracted to people regardless of gender.
Asexual: A person who does not feel any/some sexual attraction.
Demisexual: A person who is sexually attracted to someone(s) they have formed an intense emotional relationship with.
Polyamorous: A person who is interested in a relationship with more than one person.
Radosexual: A person who is only attracted to rad people.
Pomosexual: A person who avoids SO labels.

Sexual Orientation: How one identifies who they are attracted to. (SO)
Gender Identity: How one feels inside society's idea of "man, woman, or other". (GI)
Gender Expression: How one expresses their GI to society. (GE)
Significant Other(s): Person you are in a relationship with. (SO)

[Karen Lynn]

Gotta love that new thread smell. :smallbiggrin:

[Raineh Daze]

N, V, P, R, Q, Ω, ♅,

Okay, I can guess the P, but I think the others in this block currently have me stumped. :smalltongue:

Also, you already have a Q. :smallconfused:

[Mionelle]

Yay, new thread! *snuggles everyone* (instead of writing comparative analysis of works of art, meh ;P)

[noparlpf]

It's not about you it's about them with regards to men and space safing and not safing.

Yeah, and that's another part of why I get over it.

[Astrella]

Okay, I can guess the P, but I think the others in this block currently have me stumped. :smalltongue:

Also, you already have a Q. :smallconfused:

I think a few of them might have been jokes from an old thread... >.>

The two Q's are generally for Questioning and for Queer.

Honestly, I prefer GSM or GSRM myself. (Gender, Sexual and Romantic Minorities) cause it's a lot simpler and inclusive from the get go but LGBT+ is a lot more recognizable.

[Raineh Daze]

I keep pronouncing LGBT in my head as Lugerbutt. Which sounds inherently hazardous. XD

[Lorsa]

Ohhh, new thread! I was going to say something but I totally forgot what it was about. Probably something about Karen's new skirts I am sure.

[TaiLiu]

Ohhh, new thread! I was going to say something but I totally forgot what it was about. Probably something about Karen's new skirts I am sure.
Karen obtained new skirts?

[Lissou]

Yeah, I get annoyed sometimes at "women only" things being fine and "male only" things being a no-no.

I remember when I wanted to support my ex in working out, I thought we could both join a gym: him because he wanted to work out, me to be his emotional support... and vice-versa. No way I could have worked out without him.
Well every gym I contacted started with "and one of our advantage is, we're female only!" and was shocked when it was my reason for not joining.

I totally get the rape victim thing, if you were raped by a male, you might become scared of males in general, and until your trauma has been dealt with and you feel better, it's best to be away from them. It does suck for male rape victims though, who often don't have a place to go because the places that welcome rape victims also ban males.

But when it's a gym, surely it would make more sense to ban the creeps than all males. What if you want to work out with a friend or partner who is male? And it's not like there was only one gym like that, I couldn't find one that wasn't within an hour of where I lived, which leads me to wonder, what did men who wanted to go to the gym do?

I think when there is a trauma it makes some sense. When there isn't, banning all men is counterproductive, because by banning all men instead of the problem cases, they're kind of saying "that kind of problem goes with being male" or "all males do that" which actually ends up making excuses for their behavior "not their fault. They're not complete douches with no respect for other people, they're just men. It's built into them to be that way."
And that's definitely a problem.
Also, it's implying that you can't be perved on at the gym by a woman, which I assure you, you can.

[Karen Lynn]

On skirts: I get a lot of laughs(and one time, assistance) when going into hot topic.
"Welcome to HT, can I help you find anything?"
"Yeah, I need some skirts that make it look like I actually have hips."
:smallbiggrin:
Guys, of course, have been useless and just give me blank stares...


Karen obtained new skirts?

Not yet. I'm looking to go out and buy some with my tax return.

Also: I got the job! Home nightly, off weekends, kick ass paycheck! Looks like I'll be starting next week!
---
Lissou: I think you've pretty much hit on all my feels for it.

[Eldest]

www.areyouafeminist.com

This is the test I would have written. I approve.

[SiuiS]

No. At least that's not what I view 'friendzone' as. My view on it is when a person says "I won't go out with you" and then tries to soften the blow by adding "but we can still be friends, right?" Which is no consolation at the time. It's an acknowledgement of the fact that no one is truly 'pansexual' - that there will always be people a given person turns down, even though they still like them. That friendship and love are two separate things and although they should ideally coincide, they don't always.

The friend zone is where you won't let a friend move up, because doing so ruins the friendship somehow. That is, it's where you put people who aren't good enough for you so they stay in orbit but can't get any closer. It's always something that happens to you, an action. It's a place you're relegated to, and always in the sense of "I was almost in, but then she friend-zoned me", like you somehow deserve to be in my pants but then I sidelined you and it so unfair.

I find it inherently entitled and, frankly, full of crap. If not in idea then in use – and I'm full aware I usually don't judge concepts or words by their use alone. So, sorry. This may come across vitriolic out of nowhere >_<


Logging back to the forums since... Forever...

The bill allowing same-sex marriage has been approved here in Uruguay (81 to 6 in the Lower House in Dec 2012, and 23 to 8 in the Senate, yesterday).

Eventhough I don't relate personally, this is the first time I've actually been proud of being from where I am.

Now you can all go back to discussing the next thread's name :smalltongue:.

Haha! Cool!



This is a good point (although not quite the best metaphor, considering I tend to enjoy meat anywhere on a broad spectrum of medium rare to slightly burnt). :smalltongue:

Well, in this metaphor you were the meat, and the booze was the heat. :P



I kinda lost track of the thread when I moved out of my parents' place. Actually, I'm still totally behind considering I have to walk to the library to get online. :smalltongue:

Yeah, there is that >_<


SiuiS: *All good points and pretty clear. *I'm also inordinately amused/pleased/tickled that you used the word heuristic. *Beep, boop, beep... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1BdQcJ2ZYY)

Good. Sometimes I ramble.

Why is that amusing?


A little belly is sexy on a woman.

A lot of things are sexy on a woman or man. Really, it's more about how the parts fit together than any one thing.


So today at the school's career center I found a little postcard-sized thing with clothing tips for job interviews.
One side is for guys, and literally only shows how to tie a Windsor knot and why it's the best, most confident-looking knot for a tie. That and a picture of a dude with a tie tied around his head, but I don't think that's related.
On the side for girls, there is a lengthy list of what to wear and what not to wear, with a bit of accessorising to show how professional you are, because obviously as a woman your resume won't do that at all. But also don't look too professional, make sure you show some skin.

Huh.

In with Karen, post it. If nothing else, it would be food for thought.


Ohhh, dresscode for male/female talk. *The female side of the equation is idiotically complicated, the guy side is "wear a tie". *Yes. *Totally logical and fair, right there.:smallsigh:*facepalm at gender standards*

I will never know why women can't just wear a suit and tie without being verbally lambasted and insulted.

I honestly have never seen a working woman outside of a suit and tie. So it's coming along.


I'll schedule a mock interview at the career center, and show up in absolutely nothing except a tie tied with a Windsor knot.

They might not mention it, but never forget the power of a good pair o shoes. Plus, a hat ties any outfit together. Even if it's just a tie and shoes.


Kender: Are you feminist for equality? Because some of the things you write, just feel... Anti-male feminism. Not feminist extremist, but still seems blatantly anti male.

I can vouch for Kender not being such a feminist, though in the short term that pattern might be what seems to emerge.


But turning around and saying 'It's ok for women to do this.' seems... Counter intuitive.

Ah, okay. That's actually separate from, but seemingly related to, feminism by language and words.

Some things inherently require what is, by noncontextual objective measurements, easily seen as bad. Usually exclusive and dismissive. For example, women being forced to dress pretty, in gendered clothes, and to wear make-up an such is a problem. Transwomen Tend to find these desirable, for the same reason – because they are gendered. So it might look like these are at odds (feminism says you should remove the necessity of gendered clothing, feeling pretty says you should doll up to feel pretty) but really they are two separate things entirely.

Similarly, fetishistic practices. As a whole, practices that involve control, belittling, an forcing behaviors on others are Bad. But what two consenting adults do begin closed doors is cool. Similarly, while excluding people in general is bad, having standards for any one event is okay, no matter how silly that may seem. I can't remember how I felt last time, but this came up prior and we went through it all. What doesn't come through is that Guy's Night Out is allowed, if you want it, except most GNOs end up wanting to include a gaggle of women, so... Yeah.


Equality is one of those great unattainables, like justice and intelligence. Also like the average person. Anyway, hi. Felt obliged to at least acknowledge this place.

Hi! Nice to meet you!

Yeah, normal people are a statistical approximation and don't really exist.


I keep pronouncing LGBT in my head as Lugerbutt. Which sounds inherently hazardous. XD

Folks around here like lager beta, but lugerbutt is funnier, I feel.

[TaiLiu]

Not yet. I'm looking to go out and buy some with my tax return.
Ah.

Also: I got the job! Home nightly, off weekends, kick ass paycheck! Looks like I'll be starting next week!
It doesn't pay as much as your last job did, but it does have some excellent benefits, it seems.

[Raineh Daze]

Should always ban individuals, never groups. Seems silly to do it the other way around. Prejudices of any sort are never good. If you take issue with an entire group because of an individual or stereotype, then you're the one with the problem, not them.

... unless it's things like the Japanese rail system, where there's an endemic problem and that sort of thing is pretty much the only way to achieve anything. Which is just depressing. :smallsigh:

[TaiLiu]

... unless it's things like the Japanese rail system, where there's an endemic problem and that sort of thing is pretty much the only way to achieve anything. Which is just depressing. :smallsigh:
Go on... :smallconfused:

[Raineh Daze]

At peak times, when people are crowded in, anonymous molestation is disturbingly common. So much there are signs warning against it. So they (the rail companies) started instituting female-only cars at those same times as a preventative measure. Things shouldn't have to come to that. :smallfrown:

Wouldn't be surprised if I've remembered wrong or the source was wrong, though. 'Specially not right now. XD

[Astrella]

I haven't come across any feminist that supports safe spaces for women being opposed to safe spaces for men though.

[Karen Lynn]

It doesn't pay as much as your last job did, but it does have some excellent benefits, it seems.

Nah, about $200/week less, on average. Although the benefits package(which I've not looked over yet, will do tomorrow when I go in to 'talk about the position') seems like a better deal, based on their recruitment site. Paid life insurance for one, and if I can get better rates on health insurance that just so happens to cover therap(y/ists) than my old company, then I can probably make out better. Besides, being able to buy groceries like a normal person, be home every night with weekends off, and pack my own home made lunches and dinners(which would also save me money).
--
Hmmm... Should I get a corset as well? *ponders*
--
Ah. Maybe I'm just taking things out of context of personality, then. Kender has been a fair person that I've seen prior. Maybe some words just triggered me in a negative way? I don't know... >.<

Although, now I'm curious: Do feminists find transwomen offensive? I mean, transwomen find it easiest to be viewed as feminine by feeding into stereotypes/gender roles...

[SiuiS]

Should always ban individuals, never groups. Seems silly to do it the other way around. Prejudices of any sort are never good. If you take issue with an entire group because of an individual or stereotype, then you're the one with the problem, not them.

But you're interpreting and then arguing that interpretation. "women only" means "no men" which is bad, but it also doesn't include all women, and means "just our in-group" which is fine. While they say "just the ladie tonight" the only people who hear that are the men who are in the in-group; they are separating. It's as much the same as "just the techs" or something. I've seen outside women come up and get rebuffed despite it being girls' night. the phrase girls night out is as much a social cue as anything. It's a hint to the specific cluster.

Ugh. Words in my head fall inline like soldiers but dance out of reach when I type. Im gonna get some sleep and see if I can be coherent afterwards. >_<

Edit:

Although, now I'm curious: Do feminists find transwomen offensive? I mean, transwomen find it easiest to be viewed as feminine by feeding into stereotypes/gender roles...

Some do. Usually it's said to be because they are stealing a woman's role from "real" women, but the rest just go "wait, what? Isn't our 'role' what we are trying to get rid of?" and point out that by any definition of "real woman" you will inevitably exclude ciswomen as well as transwomen.

[noparlpf]

Although, now I'm curious: Do feminists find transwomen offensive? I mean, transwomen find it easiest to be viewed as feminine by feeding into stereotypes/gender roles...

Proper ones don't. I think I may have seen that perspective before, though.

[Raineh Daze]

If you use 'no men' to mean 'our group', then your problem is a terrible grasp of the English language. If you want it to just be a social gathering thing, then say so, don't use half-assed phrasings that end up excluding someone who had no reason to expect it.

[Astrella]

Some do, but most of them that do have problematic views on other points as well. And cis women don't get as much crap if they conform to society's ideals as well, I mean, there's the added thing about being seen as your gender there as well for trans women, but limits regarding gender expression and such tend to be one of feminism's focal points.

[Raineh Daze]

Some do, but most of them that do have problematic views on other points as well. And cis women don't get as much crap if they conform to society's ideals as well, I mean, there's the added thing about being seen as your gender there as well for trans women, but limits regarding gender expression and such tend to be one of feminism's focal points.

And this entire post confuses me because I'm not really sure how it's a reply to what I said. Seems a bit much for 'describe a group as appropriate, don't give a false impression'. :smallconfused:

[Kittenwolf]

My brother is a high widows peak, and he keeps his hair shoulder long. It looks alright on him, but he isn't trying to look feminine, he just enjoys the feeling of brushing his hair. Oh, and head banging...and it is a lot more fun with long hair.

I'm in much the same boat. High forehead, high widow's peak, not a great combination.
Tell him to get a fringe, they can be pushed to either side to not look feminine when required and cover up things exceptionally well :)



So today at the school's career center I found a little postcard-sized thing with clothing tips for job interviews.
One side is for guys, and literally only shows how to tie a Windsor knot and why it's the best, most confident-looking knot for a tie. That and a picture of a dude with a tie tied around his head, but I don't think that's related.
On the side for girls, there is a lengthy list of what to wear and what not to wear, with a bit of accessorising to show how professional you are, because obviously as a woman your resume won't do that at all. But also don't look too professional, make sure you show some skin.

Erg. That's horrendous ><

I've never liked any of those 'job interview advice' things. For guys it always seems to be "No jewelry other than a watch, short hair only, suit and jacket, blah blah blah".

Interview advice: way to crush everyone's self expression into a neat, sexist, conservative shaped cube.



So at work today, some colleagues saw a picture of me with my hair down... and that's it. Reaction:
Colleague 1: "Oh that's a nice picture"
Colleague 2: "You look very girly with your hair down"
Colleague 1: "Is that you? I assumed it was your (female) ex"...

...What... :smalltongue:

That's kind of awesome :D
Did you make any comments to them about looking 'girly' ?
Also, gives you the perfect inroads to wear your hair down next day at work! "So Colleague 2, think I look girly in person?"



To do what? Are you referring to the women's spaces are allowed thing? Or what? I really don't think I'm saying unreasonable things? And I don't know how to answer "Are you feminist for equality?". What's the other option?

I actually had a discussion on what makes a feminist and different extremes and such with a friend over the long weekend (also, there's a fantastic video on straw feminism at Feminist Frequency (http://www.feministfrequency.com/2011/09/tropes-vs-women-6-the-straw-feminist/))

It's really unfortunate that the media does its best to play up anyone identifying as Feminist as a "Man hater" going to absurd illogical extremes, because it creates a culture where 'Feminist' is seen as a very tarred and blackened term (like 'Privilege') that makes many people leery of associating with it. "Man haters" do exist, but they're in the vast minority.

I personally identify as Feminist, but for a long time I refused to go anywhere near that term because it seemed to imply (for one thing) being part of a specific group/organisation (I preferred to think of myself as an 'equalist'), and also because I've unfortunately met a couple of those "Man hating feminists" and had them vehemently defended by girls I'm close friends with.

For example, one of them stated that "No man can ever be anything except an oppressor, it doesn't matter if you call yourself a feminist ally, your existence means you are oppressive to women and that can't be changed by anything you do", which completely threw me.
Another one went on at length about how someone who is put down for being gay/bullied/different race/queer cannot possibly ever understand what it's like to be put down for being female and shouldn't even try to think there are any parallels, and my brain went straight to "But.. shouldn't people being oppressed/put down band together because they're being put down, rather than be segregated by the *reason* for being put down?"

Yeah, I didn't make any friends that day, believe me ><



--
Hmmm... Should I get a corset as well? *ponders*
--


Hell yes! Corsets are awesome :D
No I'm not biased towards them at all....

[Karen Lynn]

*points higher* Methinks it is in response to mine...

[Lissou]

I haven't come across any feminist that supports safe spaces for women being opposed to safe spaces for men though.

It's rarely an outright opposition to safe space for men. More of a "not here, because here is a safe space for women" and not creating many safe spaces for men because "there are more women who need a safe space so we should focus on that, but hey, someone else should totally create a safe space for men" which is nice and all but kind of telling abused men that because they're the minority, they can f* off.
Bottom line is, many places specialise in abused women because of the safe space issue, and because most of these women were abused by men. I have yet to find a place specialising in abused men because of a mix of "well we're already taking care of women here, which is a bigger problem, let others take care of men" and "it's sexist, most victims are women, why do you care only about the men? Obviously you hate women".

Some places are inclusive of men, meaning that they welcome them, but sometimes they're still treated a bit differently, in a "don't get near the women, you might trigger them" even though we're talking about another victim there. Not to mention if they were abused by a woman, being surrounded by women doesn't make for a very safe space for them and being accused of being the one who makes the space not safe can't be a nice feeling.

So yeah, I've never seen people saying men didn't deserve a safe place or to be treated with respect, heard and taken care of when they need it, but I've heard a lot of "seriously, we have more important things to think about, like women being abused".

[Raineh Daze]

*points higher* Methinks it is in response to mine...

Observational skills: not my forte. :smallredface:

[Coidzor]

Although, now I'm curious: Do feminists find transwomen offensive? I mean, transwomen find it easiest to be viewed as feminine by feeding into stereotypes/gender roles...

Some do, it's complicated. Some of it's about confirming negative stereotypes and gender roles (especially the ones about acting vapid/stupid which are a pet peeve of most rational human beings that are aware of them and fairly widely considered problematic where it actually is a thing rather than a bogeyman) and some of it's about safe spaces and invasion and viewing them as either outsiders and thus neither male nor female or outsiders and just men that are attempting to steal their space and infiltrate it.

[Astrella]

*snip*

Hm hm, valid points, and it's a difficult discussion to have. I think one of the major points on men's end should definitely be to have more places available (that only gets problematic when you want to do it at the expense of other people's places. E.g. MRA's complaining about the existence of a woman's centre at a university and wanting it gone rather then establishing places for men aside.) and to remove the stigma about being a victim and seeking help as well.

[noparlpf]

For example, one of them stated that "No man can ever be anything except an oppressor, it doesn't matter if you call yourself a feminist ally, your existence means you are oppressive to women and that can't be changed by anything you do", which completely threw me.
Another one went on at length about how someone who is put down for being gay/bullied/different race/queer cannot possibly ever understand what it's like to be put down for being female and shouldn't even try to think there are any parallels, and my brain went straight to "But.. shouldn't people being oppressed/put down band together because they're being put down, rather than be segregated by the *reason* for being put down?"

Yeah, I didn't make any friends that day, believe me ><

Woo, pet peeves. Those are annoying.

[Worira]

It's rarely an outright opposition to safe space for men. More of a "not here, because here is a safe space for women" and not creating many safe spaces for men because "there are more women who need a safe space so we should focus on that, but hey, someone else should totally create a safe space for men" which is nice and all but kind of telling abused men that because they're the minority, they can f* off.
Bottom line is, many places specialise in abused women because of the safe space issue, and because most of these women were abused by men. I have yet to find a place specialising in abused men because of a mix of "well we're already taking care of women here, which is a bigger problem, let others take care of men" and "it's sexist, most victims are women, why do you care only about the men? Obviously you hate women".

Some places are inclusive of men, meaning that they welcome them, but sometimes they're still treated a bit differently, in a "don't get near the women, you might trigger them" even though we're talking about another victim there. Not to mention if they were abused by a woman, being surrounded by women doesn't make for a very safe space for them and being accused of being the one who makes the space not safe can't be a nice feeling.

So yeah, I've never seen people saying men didn't deserve a safe place or to be treated with respect, heard and taken care of when they need it, but I've heard a lot of "seriously, we have more important things to think about, like women being abused".

I agree with this for the most part, but "No, men do not deserve as safe place" is also a thing that is said. (http://www.vancouversun.com/McMartin+barricades+students+arms+over+centre/6669021/story.html)

[TaiLiu]

I agree with this for the most part, but "No, men do not deserve as safe place" is also a thing that is said. (http://www.vancouversun.com/McMartin+barricades+students+arms+over+centre/6669021/story.html)
Huh. :smallconfused:

[Coidzor]

Well every gym I contacted started with "and one of our advantage is, we're female only!" and was shocked when it was my reason for not joining.

Wow. You have really craptacular luck. :smallconfused: I'm kind of surprised that people would be shocked by the idea of couples desiring to work out together though, at least it seems like it's common advice to work out together if possible.


I haven't come across any feminist that supports safe spaces for women being opposed to safe spaces for men though.

It's more that they just don't really exist, as far as I'm following things anyway.


I personally identify as Feminist, but for a long time I refused to go anywhere near that term because it seemed to imply (for one thing) being part of a specific group/organisation (I preferred to think of myself as an 'equalist'), and also because I've unfortunately met a couple of those "Man hating feminists" and had them vehemently defended by girls I'm close friends with.

wat


Why is that amusing?

Heuristic reminds me of sci-fi, which reminds me of computers, which reminds me of robots and makes me happy and nostalgic and then kinda bittersweet when I wish that I was able to actually help bring about the hi-tech future that we really should have started getting by now.


Well, in this metaphor you were the meat, and the booze was the heat. :P

A lot of things are sexy on a woman or man. Really, it's more about how the parts fit together than any one thing.

~Heyo!~ :smallamused:


They might not mention it, but never forget the power of a good pair o shoes. Plus, a hat ties any outfit together. Even if it's just a tie and shoes.

Hats are important. Especially nize ones. (http://girlgenius.wikia.com/wiki/Magnificent_Hat)


What doesn't come through is that Guy's Night Out is allowed, if you want it, except most GNOs end up wanting to include a gaggle of women, so... Yeah.

At least it seems about half the time GNOs are such due to a lack of women in the social orbit of the group and the other half it's because the GNO is more or less a hunting party.


Folks around here like lager beta, but lugerbutt is funnier, I feel.

It's a much more slapstick image, certainly.

[Mionelle]

Sorry for the total off-topic, but I must write about it somewhere, eh. :smallfrown:
Just got an email from the headmaster (who is also my physics teacher) saying she'll kick me out of the school because of my bad marks from physics. It's not like I suck at physics. I like this subject and I took this and maths on extended level in high school. We just don't have any tests on physics classes. We got marks for doing big sets of homework exercises.
Apart from that I was for whole school year studying for the art history competition - no time for stupid exercises. Now I'm qualified for the finals, which gives me an opportunity to study history of art at one of the best universities in the country without worrying about matura exams results. If I win, I'd have the same kind of opportunity to take interfaculty studies in the humanities, which is totally awesome, because allows me to mix subjects from 3 different courses and set my individual education plan.
But... What I'm supposed to do instead of reading as many art history books as it is possible? Yeah, tons of physics exercises. True, a year ago I was sure I'd like to study sth related to science, but I changed my mind completely. Can you imagine kicking out final year student, who is successful in an important competition, because of such matter? My last chance is to give the headmaster the missing sets, but... she did set the deadline on the next Friday, day after I come back from competition finals in Warsaw. I'm going to Warsaw this Sunday. It sucks at all... :smallfrown: (Hope things I wrote are understandable... I didn't care about the grammar etc. while writing)

[TaiLiu]

Sorry for the total off-topic, but I must write about it somewhere, eh. :smallfrown:
Just got an email from the headmaster (who is also my physics teacher) saying she'll kick me out of the school because of my bad marks from physics. It's not like I suck at physics. I like this subject and I took this and maths on extended level in high school. We just don't have any tests on physics classes. We got marks for doing big sets of homework exercises.
Apart from that I was for whole school year studying for the art history competition - no time for stupid exercises. Now I'm qualified for the finals, which gives me an opportunity to study history of art at one of the best universities in the country without worrying about matura exams results. If I win, I'd have the same kind of opportunity to take interfaculty studies in the humanities, which is totally awesome, because allows me to mix subjects from 3 different courses and set my individual education plan.
But... What I'm supposed to do instead of reading as many art history books as it is possible? Yeah, tons of physics exercises. True, a year ago I was sure I'd like to study sth related to science, but I changed my mind completely. Can you imagine kicking out final year student, who is successful in an important competition, because of such matter? My last chance is to give the headmaster the missing sets, but... she did set the deadline on the next Friday, day after I come back from competition finals in Warsaw. I'm going to Warsaw this Sunday. It sucks at all... :smallfrown: (Hope things I wrote are understandable... I didn't care about the grammar etc. while writing)
Hm. Try to negotiate with her. Tell her about your competition and your life goals and see if you can get her to empathise.

[Mutant Sheep]

Sorry for the total off-topic, but I must write about it somewhere, eh. :smallfrown:
Just got an email from the headmaster (who is also my physics teacher) saying she'll kick me out of the school because of my bad marks from physics. It's not like I suck at physics. I like this subject and I took this and maths on extended level in high school. We just don't have any tests on physics classes. We got marks for doing big sets of homework exercises.
Apart from that I was for whole school year studying for the art history competition - no time for stupid exercises. Now I'm qualified for the finals, which gives me an opportunity to study history of art at one of the best universities in the country without worrying about matura exams results. If I win, I'd have the same kind of opportunity to take interfaculty studies in the humanities, which is totally awesome, because allows me to mix subjects from 3 different courses and set my individual education plan.
But... What I'm supposed to do instead of reading as many art history books as it is possible? Yeah, tons of physics exercises. True, a year ago I was sure I'd like to study sth related to science, but I changed my mind completely. Can you imagine kicking out final year student, who is successful in an important competition, because of such matter? My last chance is to give the headmaster the missing sets, but... she did set the deadline on the next Friday, day after I come back from competition finals in Warsaw. I'm going to Warsaw this Sunday. It sucks at all... :smallfrown: (Hope things I wrote are understandable... I didn't care about the grammar etc. while writing)

Really? An email? *disparaging remark towards headmaster*

If you could find a way to get half decent physics scores, she wouldn't have much of a reason left, but from what you said, that isn't very possible right now. A face-to-face talk (Seriously, an email telling you "Oh yeah, I might expel you":smallfurious:) is probably your best chance.
But doing the best you can on the Art competition thing then talking to her might be even better, because then you could show her the results and say something to the effect of "I did this awesome on this art thing. Expelling me is literally ****ing over my future for no good reason, so please don't.". Whatever you might do to get through this, good luck.:smallsmile: Loony headmaster's are still people, after all. minds can be changed.

[Asta Kask]

I have to admit that I can't readily see what purpose the corpus spongiosum and corpus cavernosum could be put to.

I think they're used for the vaginal wall. Or the labia. Cis-women have all these parts, it's just that they're arranged differently than in cis-men. SRS is essentially going from one configuration of parts to another.

For Mionelle. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_t5GPbp5IY)

[Socratov]

So, 3rd exam down (probably passed), 1 more to go tomorrow, but I think that will be ok since I have made a MC version of the test earlier for my green belt certificate. So, home stretch :smallbiggrin:

[SiuiS]

If you use 'no men' to mean 'our group', then your problem is a terrible grasp of the English language. If you want it to just be a social gathering thing, then say so, don't use half-assed phrasings that end up excluding someone who had no reason to expect it.

I certainly agree. I just feel its worthwhile to point out that this is a "people are dumb an not always able to operate at an appropriate abstraction level" issue and not a "feminism" issue.

People are, until they actually look at language as a skill, conditioned to say things to get across their meaning, and not trained to recognize the validity of different frames of reference. So if in Group A, saying yellow parrot makes you think of private investigators, because **** Tracy wore yellow and looked and spoke kid of like a parrot, and you're all used to that, and then you go and talk to Group B, they won't know what the flick you mean when you say yellow parrot. And because you don't acknowledge that their misunderstanding comes from a valid place, you must assume they are dumb, either willfully or by accident, and react accordingly.

And so instead of explaining the whole **** Tracy connection, they roll their eyes and go "ugh, obviously I was talking about the police, what are you slow?" and it goes nowhere. Ask a woman why girl's night out, and you'll find the place where their asceticism and twir greed conflict; the point where Yes, I believe people Gould not be discriminated against based on sex, No, I don't want men at my gathering, and **** you for making me think this through because now I'm uncomfortable.

Everyone has these points. Where you learned two different behaviors in separation and just never had to use both at once. It's why I am fond of saying "human beings don't compile". You are full of contradictions, and that's okay.


And this entire post confuses me because I'm not really sure how it's a reply to what I said. Seems a bit much for 'describe a group as appropriate, don't give a false impression'. :smallconfused:

I think she was talking about Nope's post, luv :smallsmile:


Hm hm, valid points, and it's a difficult discussion to have. I think one of the major points on men's end should definitely be to have more places available (that only gets problematic when you want to do it at the expense of other people's places. E.g. MRA's complaining about the existence of a woman's centre at a university and wanting it gone rather then establishing places for men aside.) and to remove the stigma about being a victim and seeking help as well.

I think the key is to not have a Preestablished thing to fall back on. It is an individual level problem, which means you must come up with an idea on how to handle it on the fly, and based on the merits of the individual situations nd individual people involved. Having a big-standard practice to fall back on is counterproductive because it encourages following The Established Rules rather than curivating the wisdom to navigate these situations with grace.


I think they're used for the vaginal wall. Or the labia. Cis-women have all these parts, it's just that they're arranged differently than in cis-men. SRS is essentially going from one configuration of parts to another.

For Mionelle. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_t5GPbp5IY)

Pretty certain they go into the vaginal wall, for cushion and for lubrication. I was always under the impression that the surface tissue merely conveyed the sweat/oil/etc, but that it found genesis in deeper levels.

Then again, all I know about the actual phallus is "this is America answer dot write about this stuff in detail here."

[Asta Kask]

Pretty certain they go into the vaginal wall, for cushion and for lubrication. I was always under the impression that the surface tissue merely conveyed the sweat/oil/etc, but that it found genesis in deeper levels.

Then again, all I know about the actual phallus is "this is America answer dot write about this stuff in detail here."

So that's an Argument from Authority which is a well known... phallusy.

[Mionelle]

@TaiLiu, @Mutant Sheep, I'll talk with her today, I can't see other reasonable solution. She just might be furious, because some other students are in similar situation. :P Anyway, I'll see.

@Asta Kask, you made me laugh, again. Thanks! ^^

[KenderWizard]

I think when there is a trauma it makes some sense. When there isn't, banning all men is counterproductive, because by banning all men instead of the problem cases, they're kind of saying "that kind of problem goes with being male" or "all males do that" which actually ends up making excuses for their behavior "not their fault. They're not complete douches with no respect for other people, they're just men. It's built into them to be that way."
And that's definitely a problem.
Also, it's implying that you can't be perved on at the gym by a woman, which I assure you, you can.

I also think women-only gyms and things like that are not the best way to solve the problems that women who go to those gyms have. It would be better to have a strict no-sexism policy at the non-gendered gyms. Similarly, having women-only road races is not the best way to fix the fact that women are sometimes sidelined in non-gendered races. Etc.

I want to be clear that I only ever really said I understood why the non-privileged group would want to have safe spaces. I don't necessarily support women-only rape crises centres, or girls night outs, or any given situation in which women or people who aren't white or trans people or whatever say it's only them allowed.



--
Ah. Maybe I'm just taking things out of context of personality, then. Kender has been a fair person that I've seen prior. Maybe some words just triggered me in a negative way? I don't know... >.<

Although, now I'm curious: Do feminists find transwomen offensive? I mean, transwomen find it easiest to be viewed as feminine by feeding into stereotypes/gender roles...

Maybe next time you could ask more specific questions so I could answer why I said whatever I said, and not just say I'm coming across as man-hating? :smallfrown:

Some feminists, like some people, are transphobic. The Kender Feminism movement believes that the damage done to Feminism by trans women adopting highly feminine-coded behaviour is not so serious as to tell trans women that they're not allowed. That would be mean and do a lot of damage to a lot of people who have a hard enough time as it is, for nebulous benefits. Feminism can certainly survive some women choosing to perpetuate gender stereotypes, and hopefully, as Feminism continues to achieve its goals of gender equality, trans women will need to rely on that stuff less, as people don't associate, say, pink and makeup and frilly dresses as being coded feminine and feminine only and, in fact, necessary to be seen as feminine. Does that make sense?



I personally identify as Feminist, but for a long time I refused to go anywhere near that term because it seemed to imply (for one thing) being part of a specific group/organisation (I preferred to think of myself as an 'equalist'), and also because I've unfortunately met a couple of those "Man hating feminists" and had them vehemently defended by girls I'm close friends with.


Ah, the crazy people. >,< Sigh! I'm really glad you now identify as feminist. The more reasonable people who do, the less voice the fringe gets.

[Heliomance]

Re SRS:
I was actually looking into it recently. In the most common technique, penile inversion, the spongy tissue inside the penis is discarded, and the penis is literally turned inside out to form the vagina. Somehow they move the tip of the penis to form the ****oris, not quite sure how they separate it while keeping nerve connections intact.

This does carry the downside of not self-lubricating sufficiently for sex - you need to use lube every time. One of the other techniques solves this problem by using a section of colon to form the vagina. It's still not perfect though, as colonic tissue produces mucus constantly, rather than just in response to arousal.

ION, I just looked in the mirror, and no matter how hard I look, I cannot see a male ^_^

[SiuiS]

So that's an Argument from Authority which is a well known... phallusy.

That's terrible spelling is what that is! I didn't want to purge all my pictures, but if having memory full is letting stuff that bad slip through, ten I'll have to.

Crikey. That was an intelligible sentence when I wrote it and for about twenty seconds afterward...


Re SRS:
I was actually looking into it recently. In the most common technique, penile inversion, the spongy tissue inside the penis is discarded, and the penis is literally turned inside out to form the vagina. Somehow they move the tip of the penis to form the ****oris, not quite sure how they separate it while keeping nerve connections intact.

This does carry the downside of not self-lubricating sufficiently for sex - you need to use lube every time. One of the other techniques solves this problem by using a section of colon to form the vagina. It's still not perfect though, as colonic tissue produces mucus constantly, rather than just in response to arousal.

ION, I just looked in the mirror, and no matter how hard I look, I cannot see a male ^_^

Every female I've talked to (admittedly few) has claimed that they constantly self-lubricate anyway and that anyone who says otherwise is a damn dirty liar who doesn't want to admit it for fear of being considered unclean. It's just not an easy topic to broach, you know? So I can't verify one way or another.

Also: jealous. >_>~~~~~~~~~~~~*|

(those are jealousy lasers from my eyes. They are hitting the screen.)

[Lorsa]

I completely understand why certain groups might want to have "safe-spaces" for them. It's the same when my brother went to meetings for people who suffered from socio-phobia?, which ironically enough were group meetings. When the point of a group is to help eachother get past some form of mental trauma there might actually be a point to exclude people from this in order to feel safe and work out the issues.

However, I don't understand exclusion when it's about activity. Like if your female friends say they're going to do "girly stuff" (whatever that may be) and you're not invited. What if I would enjoy these stuff too? If a "guy's night out" is about drinking beer, watching football and hitting on girls I know at the very least one girl who would love to do all those things. Isn't it better to say "we're going to do these things, anyone who likes them are invited"? I'm simply can't for the life of me understand why being a certain gender makes you excluded from certain activites...

...or dress-code. I've yet to come a long way to actively fight this problem by wearing skirts (that would NOT bring out my hips though, as opposed to Karen's skirts :smallwink:) but it seems silly that women can more or less dress however they like but men can't. And don't get my started on "this is proper business code". Argh! Our society is so appearance focused it makes me cry. Your exterior should be yours to choose as an expression of yourself or something you want to see when you look in the mirror or whatever. It should NOT be something you are forced into due to some idiotic norms that you're somehow more productive wearing a tie with a windsor knot.

Why is society so ****ed up? I don't understand... When I grew up I had friends that were of various national origins, friends of various genders, friends of various interests. My father usually cleaned the house on his day off. My mother told me to do the dishes regularly. I was allowed to play with whatever toys I wanted to. Then all of a sudden in my adult life I am exposed all these stereotypes and ideas that men are supposed to be a certain way and women another or that your skin color can be a huge deal and I... simply don't understand. How can people think that women aren't any good for this or that when I've met several women who are? If just one person doesn't fit the stereotype then it's obviously WRONG.

Ok, I think I should stop now before I get myself worked up. I have things to do and... this isn't the place for random rants.


Sorry for the total off-topic, but I must write about it somewhere, eh. :smallfrown:
Just got an email from the headmaster (who is also my physics teacher) saying she'll kick me out of the school because of my bad marks from physics. It's not like I suck at physics. I like this subject and I took this and maths on extended level in high school. We just don't have any tests on physics classes. We got marks for doing big sets of homework exercises.
Apart from that I was for whole school year studying for the art history competition - no time for stupid exercises. Now I'm qualified for the finals, which gives me an opportunity to study history of art at one of the best universities in the country without worrying about matura exams results. If I win, I'd have the same kind of opportunity to take interfaculty studies in the humanities, which is totally awesome, because allows me to mix subjects from 3 different courses and set my individual education plan.
But... What I'm supposed to do instead of reading as many art history books as it is possible? Yeah, tons of physics exercises. True, a year ago I was sure I'd like to study sth related to science, but I changed my mind completely. Can you imagine kicking out final year student, who is successful in an important competition, because of such matter? My last chance is to give the headmaster the missing sets, but... she did set the deadline on the next Friday, day after I come back from competition finals in Warsaw. I'm going to Warsaw this Sunday. It sucks at all... :smallfrown: (Hope things I wrote are understandable... I didn't care about the grammar etc. while writing)

I am fairly decent at physics, so if you give me an assignment or two I can solve it for you? Or at the very least help you out if you get stuck? Unless you can fix it another way of course. Don't despair. You can do it!

[SiuiS]

I occasionally see things in the newspaper I want to bring up here, and I've always decided against it. News is, almost always, vapid on the surface. There's no room for discussion. Like the article on how women are now more comfortable calling themselves feminists because they don't associate it with the whackos anymore. Sure, we covered that a bajillion threads ago.

Today there is an article about thigh gap.

Thigh gap is apparently a thing. That alone is enough to make me :smallconfused:. Further, it's a desirable thing – not because of anything to do with your body and how to maximize it but because twitter says so. There is a prevailing wave of "if you are female, and can touch your knees together and there is still space between your thighs, you are more attractive" and basically what what the hell is this crap I dont even.

Man. Okay, let's set aside for the moment that your sense of attractiveness should come from inside, and not strictly from the judgement of someone who will never actually see you. Let's pretend that an uncaring, vaguely personified social force has opinions that matter.

Why is the dumb one that causes health problems winning? Why not peng, wherein you're attractive because your fitness and muscularity show off your body? That would be much better than pro-anorexia stuff.

The worst part is that you can't counter with "that's not actually better looking" because for some people, it is.but, seriously? Ugh! I want to give women as a collective a hug :smalleek:

TL;DR: if you're going to listen to someone else about this stuff, at least listen to me! I'm sensible!

[Zorg]

Kender, could you clarify what you meant about feminine transwomen damaging feminism? As you said you don't think it's bad enough to warrant being told not to, but the implication is obviously that it is still bad.

[Astrella]

@Mionelle; that's really sucky and I hope it sorts out. :c

Re: Feminism and trans women:

1) Trans people get crap for "perpetuating gender roles and stereotypes" to a degree that cis people who do the exact same thing don't get. Cis people get policed when they don't conform. Trans people get policed anyway, if you don't conform you're not really your gender cause you're clearly not serious about it. If you do conform you're trying to hard and just following stereotypes and all that, it's a no win game.

2) Claiming that people's expression in itself does damage is just plain wrong. And heckling on people who are feminine fits into some toxic elements of 2nd wave feminism. Feminism shouldn't be about disparaging femininity, it should be about addressing toxic elements with regards to gender and removing societal pressure with regards to gender. Someone's gender expression only gets problematic when they apply it to other people. So, someone presenting feminine because that's what they're most comfortable with isn't wrong at all. Someone presenting feminine cause they get crap otherwise, that's something we have to fix about society. Something presenting feminine and disparaging other people because women have to be feminine? That's wrong too. Your gender expression isn't inherently problematic if you don't pull the whole "this is how it's supposed to be for everyone."

(Edit; I'm just using feminine as a quick hand here, ideally we'd reach a point where behaviour and such isn't gendered anymore.)

Here's something I wrote about this a while back as well. (http://spaceoutthere.tumblr.com/post/45934495870/reddit-discussion-why-is-identifying-as-x-gender)

@Zork; I'd think, or I'd hope that Kender is talking about the more toxic elements of femininity and gender essentializing associated with that, rather then someone having a feminine gender expression being a bad thing, cause then we're just repeating the same "maleness / masculinity > femaleness / femininity" that the patriarchy shouts all the time.

[SiuiS]

Kender, could you clarify what you meant about feminine transwomen damaging feminism? As you said you don't think it's bad enough to warrant being told not to, but the implication is obviously that it is still bad.


@Mionelle; that's really sucky and I hope it sorts out. :c

Re: Feminism and trans women:

1) Trans people get crap for "perpetuating gender roles and stereotypes" to a degree that cis people who do the exact same thing don't get. Cis people get policed when they don't conform. Trans people get policed anyway, if you don't conform you're not really your gender cause you're clearly not serious about it. If you do conform you're trying to hard and just following stereotypes and all that, it's a no win game.

2) Claiming that people's expression in itself does damage is just plain wrong. And heckling on people who are feminine fits into some toxic elements of 2nd wave feminism. Feminism shouldn't be about disparaging femininity, it should be about addressing toxic elements with regards to gender and removing societal pressure with regards to gender. Someone's gender expression only gets problematic when they apply it to other people. So, someone presenting feminine because that's what they're most comfortable with isn't wrong at all. Someone presenting feminine cause they get crap otherwise, that's something we have to fix about society. Something presenting feminine and disparaging other people because women have to be feminine? That's wrong too. Your gender expression isn't inherently problematic if you don't pull the whole "this is how it's supposed to be for everyone."

(Edit; I'm just using feminine as a quick hand here, ideally we'd reach a point where behaviour and such isn't gendered anymore.)

Here's something I wrote about this a while back as well. (http://spaceoutthere.tumblr.com/post/45934495870/reddit-discussion-why-is-identifying-as-x-gender)

@Zork; I'd think, or I'd hope that Kender is talking about the more toxic elements of femininity and gender essentializing associated with that, rather then someone having a feminine gender expression being a bad thing, cause then we're just repeating the same "maleness / masculinity > femaleness / femininity" that the patriarchy shouts all the time.

I think this deserves a tag.

[Macro vs. Micro alert!]
The idea is that on an abstract scale, a group feeding into a false sense of what is feminine is directly counterproductive to a group which is trying to destroy that assumption. If feminine != must wear heels/makeup/skirts/be docile, but at the same time people try to be more feminine by wearing heels/makeup/being docile, then those two ideas conflict.

In the individual scale, there is absolutely no problem with presenting yourself in a stereotypical feminine fashion, so long as you are aware that you are doing it by choice and that is not the One True Expression of Womanhood.


Edit: I also want to bring up something. There's nothing inherently wrong with expressions being gendered. The problem is with enforced exclusivity and arbitrary enforced quantification. Things being more masculine and more feminine are fine; it's the implication that "more" of your sex is better for you, and that you're bad for deviating, that is the problem. So in a sense, homogeny such that things aren't gendered can feel like throwing the baby out with the bath water.

This gets more confusing when I process that there is probably no difference in application of things not ring gendered, and gender of things not carrying weight of consequence. 9_6

[Raineh Daze]

(Edit; I'm just using feminine as a quick hand here, ideally we'd reach a point where behaviour and such isn't gendered anymore.)

I don't think such a thing is actually possible without eliminating the entire concept of gender.

[Akowrules]

Yay! New thread!

Also, I had a gymnastics meet last night. Hurt my knees, but I'll be fine. Hated the judge on floor though. I get 4.9+ points. I did my routine better than usual, yet I get a 3.8 :smallmad: Oh well. Can't do anything about it.

Me on high bar! :smallbiggrin:

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b560/Akowrules/image_zps278ad7d4.jpg

@SiuiS: Oh believe me, it's normal. Just went a little too far on vault. And missed the mat. Landing on the gym floor hurt, but hey, I got the extra points! :smallbiggrin:

[SiuiS]

Luv, you've got a new injury every post. That cannot be normal :smalleek:

[Astrella]

Edit: I also want to bring up something. There's nothing inherently wrong with expressions being gendered. The problem is with enforced exclusivity and arbitrary enforced quantification. Things being more masculine and more feminine are fine; it's the implication that "more" of your sex is better for you, and that you're bad for deviating, that is the problem. So in a sense, homogeny such that things aren't gendered can feel like throwing the baby out with the bath water.

This gets more confusing when I process that there is probably no difference in application of things not ring gendered, and gender of things not carrying weight of consequence. 9_6

The thing is that it's really really hard to not have a connection between X is more common for Y and X is better for Y, you know? Not that I don't agree with you.

I don't really get what you mean by having stuff not be gendered meaning homogeny? (I at least thing that while gender is probably impossible to detach from interests and such most of the stuff that makes up us is at least not completely influenced by gender.)


I don't think such a thing is actually possible without eliminating the entire concept of gender.

Hm hm. Getting rid of all the boundaries or reducing them as much as possible is a more attainable goal.

[The Succubus]

I think I've mentioned this before in a previous LGBT thread. I find it helps a lot when I start getting confused about stuff like feminism, being an ally and all that Jazz.


"Surround yourself with human beings, my dear James. They are easier to fight for than principles."


- René Mathis

[Raineh Daze]

Eliminating boundaries? Sensible. Trying to eliminate classification that starts to develop around age three? There's no chance of that. :smallamused:

[Mono Vertigo]

I think I understand what Kender means, and it is that, commonly (or maybe we just hear more about them), transwomen go on with their transition in such a way as to exhibit very stereotypically feminine traits and behaviours. It's very hard to differentiate in which proportion it's the individual's genuine choice of gender expression, and in which measure this is done, consciously or not, to adhere to society's norms through stereotypes.
Because of the latter, there's the unfortunate implication that, in order to be a woman, you have to be stereotypically feminine. Some feminists blame transwomen. They shouldn't, but they do. (I think the missed nuance is that Kender does NOT blame transwomen herself, but understands the sentiment, however unjustified it is.)
Anyway, it's a thorny issue, where, either way, a bunch of people lose. Or think they do.

My conclusion is that pointing fingers won't get anyone anywhere.
Instead, we need to stab gender expectations once and for all.
With knitting needles.



There, I polluted this thread too with that goddamn running joke.

[Asta Kask]

ION, I just looked in the mirror, and no matter how hard I look, I cannot see a male ^_^

Get your dad to stand behind you. You see, mirrors technically reflect what's in front of them. So you can't get a male staring out of a mirror unless there's a male staring into them.

@Mionelle - laughing is good.

Re: Safe places for men - I thought the Old School RPG groups (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yb-sCNfE0bM) were formed for that very purpose.

Edit: Can we have cat transgirls? Or would that be trans catgirls?

[Lentrax]

Great.

Knitting needles in here too? They're everywhere!


Anyways, for all the bronies in here, check out today's RealLife. (http://reallifecomics.com)

[Astrella]

@Musashi; I think it's also often forgotten that trans people who start out transition are more likely to 'overdo' gendered expression sometimes for various reasons like it helping you be read as your gender, being more comfortable with it and just enthusiasm since a path like Zinnia Jones' of like slowly easing into it seems to be a bit more unusual. Transitioning can be akin to the way a lot of teenagers act when they first enter puberty like that. :smalltongue:

[Raineh Daze]

I think the cat portion would continue to go first, seeing as there's catboys as well. Cat -> Gender. :smallbiggrin:

[noparlpf]

Sorry for the total off-topic, but I must write about it somewhere, eh. :smallfrown:
Just got an email from the headmaster (who is also my physics teacher) saying she'll kick me out of the school because of my bad marks from physics. It's not like I suck at physics. I like this subject and I took this and maths on extended level in high school. We just don't have any tests on physics classes. We got marks for doing big sets of homework exercises.
Apart from that I was for whole school year studying for the art history competition - no time for stupid exercises. Now I'm qualified for the finals, which gives me an opportunity to study history of art at one of the best universities in the country without worrying about matura exams results. If I win, I'd have the same kind of opportunity to take interfaculty studies in the humanities, which is totally awesome, because allows me to mix subjects from 3 different courses and set my individual education plan.
But... What I'm supposed to do instead of reading as many art history books as it is possible? Yeah, tons of physics exercises. True, a year ago I was sure I'd like to study sth related to science, but I changed my mind completely. Can you imagine kicking out final year student, who is successful in an important competition, because of such matter? My last chance is to give the headmaster the missing sets, but... she did set the deadline on the next Friday, day after I come back from competition finals in Warsaw. I'm going to Warsaw this Sunday. It sucks at all... :smallfrown: (Hope things I wrote are understandable... I didn't care about the grammar etc. while writing)

Well that's stupid. Sounds like an abuse of power to me—"You slacked off in my class, so you're out. You should slack off in classes that are more important for your future because I'm the headmaster." Stick with your current plans, and is there anybody higher up you could contact? Or like, a board of people or something? I don't know how it's organised. Also do the "go see her in person" thing and explain what's happening.

If it weren't cheating and therefore actual grounds to have you kicked out, I'd offer to help out. What sort of physics?


I think they're used for the vaginal wall. Or the labia. Cis-women have all these parts, it's just that they're arranged differently than in cis-men. SRS is essentially going from one configuration of parts to another.

A source I just skimmed suggests that not all of that is used, just some if it.


Re SRS:
I was actually looking into it recently. In the most common technique, penile inversion, the spongy tissue inside the penis is discarded, and the penis is literally turned inside out to form the vagina. Somehow they move the tip of the penis to form the ****oris, not quite sure how they separate it while keeping nerve connections intact.

This does carry the downside of not self-lubricating sufficiently for sex - you need to use lube every time. One of the other techniques solves this problem by using a section of colon to form the vagina. It's still not perfect though, as colonic tissue produces mucus constantly, rather than just in response to arousal.

ION, I just looked in the mirror, and no matter how hard I look, I cannot see a male ^_^

Pretty sure that at least part of that stuff is retained, but the section that surrounds the urethra is probably discarded when they shorten that.

Also, congrats.


I occasionally see things in the newspaper I want to bring up here, and I've always decided against it. News is, almost always, vapid on the surface. There's no room for discussion. Like the article on how women are now more comfortable calling themselves feminists because they don't associate it with the whackos anymore. Sure, we covered that a bajillion threads ago.

Today there is an article about thigh gap.

Thigh gap is apparently a thing. That alone is enough to make me :smallconfused:. Further, it's a desirable thing – not because of anything to do with your body and how to maximize it but because twitter says so. There is a prevailing wave of "if you are female, and can touch your knees together and there is still space between your thighs, you are more attractive" and basically what what the hell is this crap I dont even.

Man. Okay, let's set aside for the moment that your sense of attractiveness should come from inside, and not strictly from the judgement of someone who will never actually see you. Let's pretend that an uncaring, vaguely personified social force has opinions that matter.

Why is the dumb one that causes health problems winning? Why not peng, wherein you're attractive because your fitness and muscularity show off your body? That would be much better than pro-anorexia stuff.

The worst part is that you can't counter with "that's not actually better looking" because for some people, it is.but, seriously? Ugh! I want to give women as a collective a hug :smalleek:

TL;DR: if you're going to listen to someone else about this stuff, at least listen to me! I'm sensible!

That's another of those things that's an issue on a large scale like this, but if a couple of people are into it but don't push it on women it's okay. Women who look like that naturally without being unhealthy do exist, though I don't know why it's (apparently) becoming so popular. I mostly only see it in manga/manhwa (And there, you often get a very silly version of it where their upper thighs don't touch right at the crotch, then a couple of inches down their legs widen out or something? Or maybe they're knock-kneed? I r really don't know. So you get a little triangle, which is not how it looks on anybody I've seen in real life.); I've only seen a couple of real women who look like that without looking unhealthily scrawny, and several real women whose thighs didn't touch but who did look a bit unhealthy.
Anyway, on a large scale like this, it is definitely bad. Pushing any near-impossible body image ideal on people is bad. People should be comfortable with their bodies (gender dysphoria and other medical conditions excepted), or if they're not, then the ideal they should be working towards should at least be a healthy one, not a less healthy one.

Edit: Skimming tumblr briefly, several of those girls look to be on the unhealthily thin side of things.
(I have however found one example of the version I described from manga. I think normally it's a thin person crossing their legs at the knee, but those mangaka decided that they liked the gap and they liked thighs with some meat on them, so they combined the two into an actually-impossible thing.)


Luv, you've got a new injury every post. That cannot be normal :smalleek:

Back when I actually got out regularly I got injured all the time. It comes with activity.

[Mono Vertigo]

@Astrella: yeah, that's part of the point I was trying to make. BF went through a similar phase before actually starting his transition and taking hormones. Now he's considered male by society in every aspect (except the legal documents, which is about to be corrected anyway), he's the most stereotypically feminine of us two (which, admittedly, isn't very hard whenever I'm included in the equation :smallbiggrin:).


@Helio and Asta: Amusingly, a couple months ago, when going to the supermarket, BF freaked out because he thought he saw his father, who lives in a different city, 100+km away.
Turned out it wasn't his dad. It was his own reflection. :smallamused:

[Asta Kask]

A source I just skimmed suggests that not all of that is used, just some if it.

Good. So you get something for the celebratory barbecue as well.

@SiuiS - Anorexia Athletica. (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypergymnasia) Sadly, there's no thing that can't be abused. Except cuddles.

[Raineh Daze]

@SiuiS - Anorexia Athletica. (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypergymnasia) Sadly, there's no thing that can't be abused. Except cuddles.

I'm sure I could think of a way to abuse them, too.

[noparlpf]

@Astrella: yeah, that's part of the point I was trying to make. BF went through a similar phase before actually starting his transition and taking hormones. Now he's considered male by society in every aspect (except the legal documents, which is about to be corrected anyway), he's the most stereotypically feminine of us two (which, admittedly, isn't very hard whenever I'm included in the equation :smallbiggrin:).

@Helio and Asta: Amusingly, a couple months ago, when going to the supermarket, BF freaked out because he thought he saw his father, who lives in a different city, 100+km away.
Turned out it wasn't his dad. It was his own reflection. :smallamused:

Congrats on the documents, and the reflection thing is funny.


Good. So you get something for the celebratory barbecue as well.

Uhh, yeah. I don't think that's exactly the most nutritious of body parts anyway.


@SiuiS - Anorexia Athletica. (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypergymnasia) Sadly, there's no thing that can't be abused. Except cuddles.

I bet you can cuddle people to death. Or, what if you cuddle so much you forget to eat and starve?

[Asta Kask]

Wasn't there a cannibal story in Germany a few years ago involving eating a penis?

[The Succubus]

I bet you can cuddle people to death.

A preposterous idea. Next you'll be suggesting that people can be smooched and Happy Fun Time'd to death as well.

[Raineh Daze]

Wasn't there a cannibal story in Germany a few years ago involving eating a penis?

I think a Rammstein song is based on that.

This guy? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armin_Meiwes)

[Asta Kask]

I bet you can cuddle people to death. Or, what if you cuddle so much you forget to eat and starve?

You're right. My God, we need to have an intervention for Lixie.


I think a Rammstein song is based on that.

This guy? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armin_Meiwes)

Yep. That's the one.

[Lorsa]

Get your dad to stand behind you. You see, mirrors technically reflect what's in front of them. So you can't get a male staring out of a mirror unless there's a male staring into them.

Truth of the day.

[noparlpf]

Wasn't there a cannibal story in Germany a few years ago involving eating a penis?

Doesn't change that there's not much nutrition in a penis.

[Asta Kask]

It's mostly connective tissue, isn't it? That's good protein. Just need to cook it for long enough.

Penis stew. (http://bertc.com/subfive/recipes/penisstew.htm)

[Eirala]

Ah, the crazy people. >,< Sigh! I'm really glad you now identify as feminist. The more reasonable people who do, the less voice the fringe gets.

I have to admit everything i heard about feminism led me to not wanting to identify with the label feminist...except the bits here in the threads.



ION, I just looked in the mirror, and no matter how hard I look, I cannot see a male ^_^

That's awesome ^.^



Anyways, for all the bronies in here, check out today's RealLife. (http://reallifecomics.com)

Hehe ^^ I wonder how many bronies actually use their kid(s) for buying pony-related stuff.


@Musashi; I think it's also often forgotten that trans people who start out transition are more likely to 'overdo' gendered expression sometimes for various reasons like it helping you be read as your gender, being more comfortable with it and just enthusiasm since a path like Zinnia Jones' of like slowly easing into it seems to be a bit more unusual. Transitioning can be akin to the way a lot of teenagers act when they first enter puberty like that. :smalltongue:

Overdoing, as in: "Hey, i think i'm trans. Let's wear that shiny red skirt when i leave the house.". Protip: That's not a good idea <.<

Since gender stereotypes exist dressing stereotypical feminine can make you feel more girly. That can be pretty neat to boost your self-confidence, especially when you begin transitioning (or before that) but you have to know what you can pull of. And since you probably don't know what you can pull off yet when you only started dressing feminine, it's most of the time a good idea to just subtly dress feminine. The effect might not be as obvious, but in combination with feminine body language even a subtle femininity has it's effect.

[noparlpf]

I deleted my last post. That was me failing reading comprehension.

[Kittenwolf]

ION, I just looked in the mirror, and no matter how hard I look, I cannot see a male ^_^

*Big Hugs*
Sweety that is awesome :)
Glad to hear your mirror is no longer broken and no longer showing things that aren't there.

[SiuiS]

That's another of those things that's an issue on a large scale like this, but if a couple of people are into it but don't push it on women it's okay. Women who look like that naturally without being unhealthy do exist, though I don't know why it's (apparently) becoming so popular. I mostly only see it in manga/manhwa (And there, you often get a very silly version of it where their upper thighs don't touch right at the crotch, then a couple of inches down their legs widen out or something? Or maybe they're knock-kneed? I r really don't know. So you get a little triangle, which is not how it looks on anybody I've seen in real life.); I've only seen a couple of real women who look like that without looking unhealthily scrawny, and several real women whose thighs didn't touch but who did look a bit unhealthy.
Anyway, on a large scale like this, it is definitely bad. Pushing any near-impossible body image ideal on people is bad. People should be comfortable with their bodies (gender dysphoria and other medical conditions excepted), or if they're not, then the ideal they should be working towards should at least be a healthy one, not a less healthy one.

Edit: Skimming tumblr briefly, several of those girls look to be on the unhealthily thin side of things.
(I have however found one example of the version I described from manga. I think normally it's a thin person crossing their legs at the knee, but those mangaka decided that they liked the gap and they liked thighs with some meat on them, so they combined the two into an actually-impossible thing.)


Aye. I ha stuff about endo/meso/ectomorphic and the forms and types an just decided, no, no I don't need to validate this by quantifying my rebuttal. But yes. For some people this happens. That's fine. When you look like... I don't know. When you look like a sick ten year old? When you have to torture your body? Ugh. Terrible.

Reminds me of a random thing! Nicki Minaj, a celebrity who tries to tap and is the single worst person at it I've ever heard, demonstrates this. She has a video, for a song (Starships?) wherein she tries to keep her knees close together because it's generically feminine, I suppose, and she looks awful. Pained. Unbalanced. Contorted. An in te few scenes where she stands normal (based on bone structure and muscular composition) she looks amazing. And it makes me sad and it doesn't make any sense and I'm just rambling now and rrarrgh.

Oh! Thank Manga thing does, indeed, exist. It's just not as endemic as you would think based on manga. Requires a sort of perfect storm, bone structure wise.


Back when I actually got out regularly I got injured all the time. It comes with activity.

I would argue, but thn I remember that I can't think of a joint or connector on my body that still works right. I can pop my pelvis. So yeah, I guess damage comes with the territory :smallfrown:



@Helio and Asta: Amusingly, a couple months ago, when going to the supermarket, BF freaked out because he thought he saw his father, who lives in a different city, 100+km away.
Turned out it wasn't his dad. It was his own reflection. :smallamused:

Heeheehee~


Good. So you get something for the celebratory barbecue as well.

Congrats! I dry heaved.


@SiuiS - Anorexia Athletica. (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypergymnasia) Sadly, there's no thing that can't be abused. Except cuddles.

... Shoot. It's a good thing staph iris made me stop exercising then, I suppose <_<;


A preposterous idea. Next you'll be suggesting that people can be smooched and Happy Fun Time'd to death as well.

SNOO SNOO

[Raineh Daze]

Comments on 'unhealthily thin' make me feel awkward, because I'm generally not that far off that. Certainly manage to be vaguely skeletal at all times. XD

[Asta Kask]

I've been there. 6' and 105 lbs... It'll probably pass.

[Raineh Daze]

Not quite that thin, thankfully. Now, if I ever started to lose weight I'd be concerned. As it is, I'm quite happy to be unnerving without being unhealthy. :smallbiggrin:

[SiuiS]

Comments on 'unhealthily thin' make me feel awkward, because I'm generally not that far off that. Certainly manage to be vaguely skeletal at all times. XD

As am I. But web you have to lose health to get thinner, it's not worth doing.

[Asta Kask]

Not quite that thin, thankfully. Now, if I ever started to lose weight I'd be concerned. As it is, I'm quite happy to be unnerving without being unhealthy. :smallbiggrin:

Sorry, kg to pounds conversion fail. 105 pounds. My former neighbor managed to get down to 73 lbs. at the end of her life. She just... melted away.

[gunnar11]

... unless it's things like the Japanese rail system, where there's an endemic problem and that sort of thing is pretty much the only way to achieve anything. Which is just depressing. :smallsigh:
Maybe a bit late for this, but you know the Japanese are crazy, right?



Also: I completely lost track, but was there someone an anti-men feminist? *rubs hands and prepares for battle*
come at me :smallamused:

[Raineh Daze]

Maybe a bit late for this, but you know the Japanese are crazy, right?

No crazier than anyone else on this giant, spinning ball of rock and metal.

[Eldest]

No crazier than anyone else on this giant, spinning ball of rock and metal.

This made me think of music at first. Which made it more awesome.

Also, congrats to Helio for the mirror thing!

[Sparkify]

Maybe a bit late for this, but you know the Japanese are crazy, right?



Also: I completely lost track, but was there someone an anti-men feminist? *rubs hands and prepares for battle*
come at me :smallamused:

#racism
#whatabouttehmenz???

[Raineh Daze]

Going back to weird mental pronunciations: I keep reading LGBTAitp as Lugerpotato. Now food is strangely threatening. :smallfrown:

[Mina Kobold]

Eliminating boundaries? Sensible. Trying to eliminate classification that starts to develop around age three? There's no chance of that. :smallamused:

But at that age I was under the impression that anyone wearing not-pants (Toddlerveak did not know that Kilts and robes were not dresses. Sorry. ^_^') were female by default. Then again, the dispelling of that notion was caused by wizardry, so it may indeed be impossible. X3

In all seriousness, though, I think it could be fairly possible to get rid of nonsensical gender associations. The reversal of the Light Blue = Girl and Pink = Boy would indicate that it is at least possible to change them on a societal level, and the fact that people have changed positions on things after visiting GSRM areas would suggest that it is possible individually too. It might just require a lot of help...

Say, would using kittens and ponies as spokesbeings allow us to fuel the Orbital Friendship Cannon for this purpose? :3


Edit: Can we have cat transgirls? Or would that be trans catgirls?

Trans catgirls would specifically be people identifying as and transitioning to catgirls. Conceivable in settings where multiple human subspecies coexist and where catgirls are one of them. Possibly also a valid identity in a transhumanist future, though there is yet to be much data on how the possibility of being a cat-person may affect human identity.
A cat transgirl would be a transgender cat or cat-something (Cap-person, cat-squid, cat-cat, catnip, &c.).
Those are my 12 Ears on the subject, at least. ^_^'


@SiuiS - Anorexia Athletica. (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypergymnasia) Sadly, there's no thing that can't be abused. Except cuddles.

*cuddles and prevents Asta from doing anything*

Does that count? :3


No crazier than anyone else on this giant, spinning ball of rock and metal.

Uh-huh, Japanese people are no more crazy than Danes, Americans or anyone else. And just as huggable. ^_^

*offers hugs to everybody on the spinning ball of rock and metal*

[Mionelle]

I am fairly decent at physics, so if you give me an assignment or two I can solve it for you? Or at the very least help you out if you get stuck? Unless you can fix it another way of course. Don't despair. You can do it!


Well that's stupid. Sounds like an abuse of power to me—"You slacked off in my class, so you're out. You should slack off in classes that are more important for your future because I'm the headmaster." Stick with your current plans, and is there anybody higher up you could contact? Or like, a board of people or something? I don't know how it's organised. Also do the "go see her in person" thing and explain what's happening.

If it weren't cheating and therefore actual grounds to have you kicked out, I'd offer to help out. What sort of physics?


Yay, thank you so much for your offers, but the only thing I need now is time. And you know, translating everything into English might take ages... ^^'


Helio, congratz! :3

[Heliomance]

Get your dad to stand behind you. You see, mirrors technically reflect what's in front of them. So you can't get a male staring out of a mirror unless there's a male staring into them.
:smallredface:



Edit: Can we have cat transgirls? Or would that be trans catgirls?
Mew?


*Big Hugs*
Sweety that is awesome :)
Glad to hear your mirror is no longer broken and no longer showing things that aren't there.
Haha, this is a fantastic way to put it :smallbiggrin:

[Raineh Daze]

You can change and reduce the classification, but eliminating it in its entirety? The human mind seems built to split stuff up like that to make sense of the world. You're not going to completely eliminate classification.

Ooh, hugs. :O

[Eldest]

Hugs happen a lot. Want one?

[Raineh Daze]

Why wouldn't I?

[Urist]

#racism
#whatabouttehmenz???

Those are good hashtags, I like that.

[Eldest]

*shrugs, then hugs*

[Astrella]

ION, I just looked in the mirror, and no matter how hard I look, I cannot see a male ^_^

:smallbiggrin:


You can change and reduce the classification, but eliminating it in its entirety? The human mind seems built to split stuff up like that to make sense of the world. You're not going to completely eliminate classification.

Ooh, hugs. :O

Hm hm. I don't think classification in itself is harmful, it's mostly prescriptivism attached to it that we want to eliminate. Like, "if you are X you must like 1,2 and 3 and don't do 4." That's the stuff that we should get rid of.

[Absol197]

Hi everybody! I'm still here! I just have very little time to post, and I want to tell you the entire story, and I keep getting distracted by certain sombodies on Skype that eat into what little posting time I have...

I'll be back to my normal posting schedule soon (which includes for the Werewolf game)!


~Phoenix~

[Astrella]

Hi everybody! I'm still here! I just have very little time to post, and I want to tell you the entire story, and I keep getting distracted by certain sombodies on Skype that eat into what little posting time I have...

I'll be back to my normal posting schedule soon (which includes for the Werewolf game)!


~Phoenix~

Glad that you're feeling better, can't wait to hear the full story. :smallsmile:

[Asta Kask]

Secret picture of Musashi and her boyfriend:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a9/Kissing_Prairie_dog_edit_3.jpg/300px-Kissing_Prairie_dog_edit_3.jpg

I haven't seen Golentan in a while. Anyone know what's up?

[Raineh Daze]

I am not a fan of prescriptivism at all. Blame grammar; I am perfectly fine with third person singular they, and see no reason it should attract wrath from people overly attached to Victorian linguistic inventions. :smallannoyed:

[Mono Vertigo]

Secret picture of Musashi and her boyfriend:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a9/Kissing_Prairie_dog_edit_3.jpg/300px-Kissing_Prairie_dog_edit_3.jpg

... you're the nth person to compare us to small, cute, gregarious critters spending most of their time looking around.
(There are many species that fit that description, actually, yeah.)
But the first one to do so on the Internet.
Do we know each other IRL? :smalleek:

It's not even an accurate picture. One of these prairie dogs needs to be a hipster.

[Asta Kask]

... you're the nth person to compare us to small, cute, gregarious critters spending most of their time looking around.
(There are many species that fit that description, actually, yeah.)
But the first one to do so on the Internet.
Do we know each other IRL? :smalleek:

Not that I'm aware of. I guess it just bleeds through to the Internet. Or I happened across a cute picture and decided to use it with one of the couples here in the thread.

[Karen Lynn]

Sorry, Phoenix! I likes nommin' your times, though... :smallbiggrin:

[KenderWizard]

ION, I just looked in the mirror, and no matter how hard I look, I cannot see a male ^_^

That's so cool!

Also, yes, self-lubrication constantly, it's a part of how the whole thing works, it's self-cleaning! Just _extra_ self-lubrication with arousal. Also, plenty of vaginas need lube for comfy PIV sex.



Ok, I think I should stop now before I get myself worked up. I have things to do and... this isn't the place for random rants.


I agree with your random rant!



Today there is an article about thigh gap.


If it helps you believe in it, I've felt crap about my body for not having thigh-gap, and thigh-gap has become lodged in my brain as desirable and right.



Kender, could you clarify what you meant about feminine transwomen damaging feminism? As you said you don't think it's bad enough to warrant being told not to, but the implication is obviously that it is still bad.


I think this deserves a tag.

[Macro vs. Micro alert!]
The idea is that on an abstract scale, a group feeding into a false sense of what is feminine is directly counterproductive to a group which is trying to destroy that assumption. If feminine != must wear heels/makeup/skirts/be docile, but at the same time people try to be more feminine by wearing heels/makeup/being docile, then those two ideas conflict.

In the individual scale, there is absolutely no problem with presenting yourself in a stereotypical feminine fashion, so long as you are aware that you are doing it by choice and that is not the One True Expression of Womanhood.




I think I understand what Kender means, and it is that, commonly (or maybe we just hear more about them), transwomen go on with their transition in such a way as to exhibit very stereotypically feminine traits and behaviours. It's very hard to differentiate in which proportion it's the individual's genuine choice of gender expression, and in which measure this is done, consciously or not, to adhere to society's norms through stereotypes.
Because of the latter, there's the unfortunate implication that, in order to be a woman, you have to be stereotypically feminine. Some feminists blame transwomen. They shouldn't, but they do. (I think the missed nuance is that Kender does NOT blame transwomen herself, but understands the sentiment, however unjustified it is.)
Anyway, it's a thorny issue, where, either way, a bunch of people lose. Or think they do.

My conclusion is that pointing fingers won't get anyone anywhere.
Instead, we need to stab gender expectations once and for all.
With knitting needles.



There, I polluted this thread too with that goddamn running joke.

SiuiS and Musashi have it.

There's nothing at all wrong with any individual trans woman using the trappings of modern femininity to help them code themselves as female.

There is something wrong with there being restrictive and expensive codes of femininity -- make up, high heels, dresses, long hair -- that are used to restrict who's feminine enough (that goes for cis and trans women) and used to feck over women (like the dress code thing that Nope had, where there are way more rules for women than for men.)

If women, generally, perpetuate those stereotypes, they'll keep happening; we need to push back against them and say "Hey, wait, why do _I_ have to wear make-up to look professional and _he_ doesn't?" We shouldn't have to. But we do. But we don't _all_ have to. Those women (cis and trans) who love or need or want those things, say make-up, they can have them, that's fine. Provided they don't force them onto other women. And they can break down other stereotypes, like "all women are no good at computer science" or "all women love to bake and raise children at home" or "all women are weepy and emotional". And eventually, those things that are coded feminine won't be seen as "lesser" and won't be functionally mandatory, and everyone will be happier except the bigots.

[Raineh Daze]

Yay, computer science~

... still need to do well in exams to get into where I've gotten an offer from... but ranked about thirtieth in the world for the subject's not bad, is it? Would be disappointing if I didn't have to put effort into my exams. :smallamused:

[Karen Lynn]

Yay compsci~

*is elbows deep in computer innards right now*

[Raineh Daze]

I don't trust myself to go near the inner workings of a computer without breaking it somehow. Last time I did, it was one that already wasn't working, and I proved that I had completely forgotten how to use a screwdriver. XD

[Karen Lynn]

Heh. I love the hardware. ;3

I like working on computers. Lot of fun for me.

[noparlpf]

Yay, thank you so much for your offers, but the only thing I need now is time. And you know, translating everything into English might take ages... ^^'

Ah, that's true. I guess enough of physics questions are words to make it hard to do in another language. Well, good luck.


Hm hm. I don't think classification in itself is harmful, it's mostly prescriptivism attached to it that we want to eliminate. Like, "if you are X you must like 1,2 and 3 and don't do 4." That's the stuff that we should get rid of.

Yup, that stuff is dumb. Like how I'm supposed to be in the dating scene because I'm a teenage boy or something.

[Heliomance]

There is something wrong with there being restrictive and expensive codes of femininity -- make up, high heels, dresses, long hair -- that are used to restrict who's feminine enough (that goes for cis and trans women) and used to feck over women (like the dress code thing that Nope had, where there are way more rules for women than for men.)

Actually, I quite like the fact that such a strongly feminine coded thing exists - because it means that by adhering to it I can increase my chances of being read as female. If there weren't certain behaviours and stereotypes I could fulfill, it would be harder.

[Raineh Daze]

Every time I see long hair come up, I am reminded that I look like a monkey with short hair, so regardless of other factors I'd definitely still not want it. /randomcommentary

It's not that I dislike computer hardware, more that I don't really have the money or space to mess around with cheap parts, let alone more expensive ones, and breaking something or shorting it because of static... yeah, don't want to risk that when I can't replace things. :smalltongue:

[Lorsa]

As for the weight issues I want to offer something I refer to as the "Lorsa diet". I'm not sure if it's best for Karen or Raineh though. It goes like this:

1-1.3 litres (do you own convertions from the metric system if you need) of coca cola per day
Lots of pasta (it's quick and easy to make so leaves plenty of time for other stuff)
White bread is much more yummy than dark bread, but choose the one you like best
Meat in various incarnations
(also some vitamins are good)

I'm hoping to start a trend and sell this "Lorsa diet", possibly in book form.

[angrymudcrab]

Soda is probably the only thing an American wouldn't need to do unit conversions for. For some reason soda is sold in 2 liter bottles here, but we use the English system for just about everything else. :smallconfused:

[Lix Lorn]

Soda is probably the only thing an American wouldn't need to do unit conversions for. For some reason soda is sold in 2 liter bottles here, but we use the English system for just about everything else. :smallconfused:
English system? What?
We use litres over here. Litres, metres and grams.
(Exceptions: Milk is in pints and long distances are in miles. Tonnes exist too.)

[Lorsa]

Actually, I quite like the fact that such a strongly feminine coded thing exists - because it means that by adhering to it I can increase my chances of being read as female. If there weren't certain behaviours and stereotypes I could fulfill, it would be harder.

I have a feeling this is harder for transmen, as male-wear is basically the same as many women use.

It's great that there ARE tools you can use so that people will see more easily who you are, but isn't it possible that in the absense of such coding people wouldn't read gender into appearance so much and thus use other cues to read you? Maybe it's more a dream-scenario than anything...

I'm glad that certain stereotypes can actually help some people. I think it's important to remember though, that not wearing skirts doesn't make you any less of a woman. You are a woman regardless of whatever gender expression you choose to adopt. It should be a choice.

[noparlpf]

As for the weight issues I want to offer something I refer to as the "Lorsa diet". I'm not sure if it's best for Karen or Raineh though. It goes like this:

1-1.3 litres (do you own convertions from the metric system if you need) of coca cola per day
Lots of pasta (it's quick and easy to make so leaves plenty of time for other stuff)
White bread is much more yummy than dark bread, but choose the one you like best
Meat in various incarnations
(also some vitamins are good)

I'm hoping to start a trend and sell this "Lorsa diet", possibly in book form.

Sounds similar to the Atkins diet, I think. Carbs and protein, avoid fat, if I remember properly. Anyway, sounds like diabetes in the works to me...

My diet is lots of fruits and vegetables (preferably cheaper ones), one serving of meat or chili every day, a bit of milk or grapefruit juice, and ice cream, more or less. Occasionally a bowl of pasta or a pastry. Add in ten miles of bicycling a day. Works for me, though some sit-ups would help. Actually it's a miracle I'm alive; supposedly my average net daily calorie intake is negative, but I'm not losing weight at all.

[Thajocoth]

English system? What?
We use litres over here. Litres, metres and grams.
(Exceptions: Milk is in pints and long distances are in miles. Tonnes exist too.)

Yep, we in the USA all still call it the "English System", despite it not being used in England anymore. Feet, inches, cups, gallons, etc... All English.

[noparlpf]

Yep, we in the USA all still call it the "English System", despite it not being used in England anymore. Feet, inches, cups, gallons, etc... All English.

"English" or "Imperial", because it used to be. Until England made the sensible change to sensible units (for most things).
I use metric and Celsius when possible, because a. they're better and b. I'm a Chem major anyway and c. I get to make fun of Americans more.

[Castaras]

Imperial system for the great and mighty Empire.

HAIL BRITANNIA. *salute*

*sips tea*

*adjusts monocle*

[angrymudcrab]

English system? What?
We use litres over here. Litres, metres and grams.
(Exceptions: Milk is in pints and long distances are in miles. Tonnes exist too.)
We still use the units we got from Britain when we broke away. It gets even weirder because I think maybe we are using an archaic form of it too, and it doesn't match 1-1 with what the British were using before they switched to the metric system. Pretty much every other country has moved on to the metric system. But we still do all our stuff in miles, yards, feet, inches, pints, gallons, tones etc... Screws and fiddly little things are still often done in fractions of an inch. I think our military uses the metric system, and stuff tends to be dual labeled, but no one here really uses the metric system unless they are forced to.


EDIT: Percentages should have been fractions. Fixed now.

[Lix Lorn]

Imperial system for the great and mighty Empire.

HAIL BRITANNIA. *salute*

*sips tea*

*adjusts monocle*
(Imagines this)
(swoons)

[Darklady2831]

English system? What?
We use litres over here. Litres, metres and grams.
(Exceptions: Milk is in pints and long distances are in miles. Tonnes exist too.)

Aren't Tonnes metric?

[Asta Kask]

Every time I see long hair come up, I am reminded that I look like a monkey with short hair, so regardless of other factors I'd definitely still not want it. /randomcommentary

Well, humans are monkeys so I expect you do.

[Lix Lorn]

Aren't Tonnes metric?
No idea, I never need to deal with them.

[noparlpf]

We still use the units we got from Britain when we broke away. It gets even weirder because I think maybe we are using an archaic form of it too, and it doesn't match 1-1 with what the British were using before they switched to the metric system. Pretty much every other country has moved on to the metric system. But we still do all our stuff in miles, yards, feet, inches, pints, gallons, tones etc... Screws and fiddly little things are still often done in percentages of an inch. I think our military uses the metric system, and stuff tends to be dual labeled, but no one here really uses the metric system unless they are forced to.

I think there are one or two tiny Asian countries that still use Imperial, according to the internet somewhere.
Screws and bolts are normally either metric or fractions of an inch, not percentages. Many tool sets come with both for convenience. My ratchet set has heads for both metric and Imperial bolts. Unfortunately, I had to buy two sets of hex keys to have both.


Edit:

Aren't Tonnes metric?

A ton is 2,000 pounds. A "metric ton" is 1,000 kilograms. Except that's just a megagram, so there's not point in the "metric ton" existing.

[Heliomance]

Yep, we in the USA all still call it the "English System", despite it not being used in England anymore. Feet, inches, cups, gallons, etc... All English.

We NEVER used cups as measurement - I seriously don't get the American fetish for measuring ingredients by volume. How the hell do you measure butter by volume?

Also, your gallons are notably different from how ours ever were.



A ton is 2,000 pounds. A "metric ton" is 1,000 kilograms. Except that's just a megagram, so there's not point in the "metric ton" existing.

Metric tonne. They're spelt differently.

[Lissou]

Catching up, sorry if I'm a bit out of date...


Every female I've talked to (admittedly few) has claimed that they constantly self-lubricate anyway and that anyone who says otherwise is a damn dirty liar who doesn't want to admit it for fear of being considered unclean. It's just not an easy topic to broach, you know? So I can't verify one way or another.

I mostly lubricate constantly, but more when aroused, and sometimes not for some reason. To give an example that might help, I think it's like mouths. You salivate when you're hungry or you see something tasty, but your mouth is also pretty much constantly moist, just not producing as much saliva as when you need it to break down food. But every so often, you also get a dry mouth for whatever reason.
Same kind of thing.


I don't think such a thing is actually possible without eliminating the entire concept of gender.

I think we can do it little by little with most things that have no reason to be gendered. We have managed to do it for some already. It used to be that writers were expected to be males or that only males wore pants. Nowadays pants aren't really seen as marking someone as male, anyone can wear them, and writers can be either male or female.

I believe some things would always remain, such as the concept of males being on average taller and more square, and females on average being shorter and more curvy. But many other things have disappeared or are disappearing. Hair length for instance, you see females with short hair and males with long hair. It's not completely vanished, but it seems to be on its way.


Women who look like that naturally without being unhealthy do exist, though I don't know why it's (apparently) becoming so popular.

I remember studying attraction throughout the ages. Long story short, what rich people look like tends to become a trend of what's attractive.
It used to be that to be fat or pale, you needed to be rich: poor people starved, and they worked in the sun and got tanned. So you see lots of older portrayals of bigger, whiter people in old European stuff.
Nowadays, rich people tend to be Caucasian, but also, many people work indoor jobs, and so you need to be rich to afford tanning salons. On top of that, lots of cheap food is extremely unhealthy, so both working out and eating healthy food require money.
So the ideal tends to be a white, but tanned woman, who is very thin (not muscular because muscles are still associated with men).


Aren't Tonnes metric?

There are both metric and imperial tonnes, and they're not the same weight. It does make things complicated if you don't know which tons someone is using. Also I think one is spelled tonne and the other ton, but it could just be British vs US spelling.

[angrymudcrab]

I think there are one or two tiny Asian countries that still use Imperial, according to the internet somewhere.
Screws and bolts are normally either metric or fractions of an inch, not percentages. Many tool sets come with both for convenience. My ratchet set has heads for both metric and Imperial bolts. Unfortunately, I had to buy two sets of hex keys to have both.


Edit:


A ton is 2,000 pounds. A "metric ton" is 1,000 kilograms. Except that's just a megagram, so there's not point in the "metric ton" existing.
Derp, fractions, that is what I meant. Basically things like 1/4in 1/8in 1/16in.:smallredface: I wish we'd switch to Metric like everyone else. Switching between units in the English system is ugly.:smallfrown:

[noparlpf]

We NEVER used cups as measurement - I seriously don't get the American fetish for measuring ingredients by volume. How the hell do you measure butter by volume?

Also, your gallons are notably different from how ours ever were.

Sticks of butter come with the amount in tablespoons and whatever marked on the wrapper.
(I hate the American volume system. I still don't get it. And the bit where they call multiple things the same thing, like ounces and ounces, and pounds and pounds, is confusing.)


Metric tonne. They're spelt differently.

This is 'Murika, we spell "tonne" "ton". Don't ask why that's one of my American spellings while I spell other things the British way.


Edit:

I remember studying attraction throughout the ages. Long story short, what rich people look like tends to become a trend of what's attractive.
It used to be that to be fat or pale, you needed to be rich: poor people starved, and they worked in the sun and got tanned. So you see lots of older portrayals of bigger, whiter people in old European stuff.
Nowadays, rich people tend to be Caucasian, but also, many people work indoor jobs, and so you need to be rich to afford tanning salons. On top of that, lots of cheap food is extremely unhealthy, so both working out and eating healthy food require money.
So the ideal tends to be a white, but tanned woman, who is very thin (not muscular because muscles are still associated with men).

It's actually not that expensive to eat healthily...I have a $200 budget every month for food, gas, and everything else I might need, and I always have some left over. And I still buy extraneous things like ice cream and juice when I don't need them (ice cream is the one unhealthy thing I buy). By comparison, my peers pay anywhere from $1800 to $2800 each semester (so around $500 to $800 a month) for crappy, unhealthy food (most of it is fast food or a smidge above it) on the school's meal plan.

[Raineh Daze]

I meant like one of those small things that lives in jungles and doesn't have enough strength to snap you in two like a twig. Not, in fact, the entire clade. :smalltongue:

But I don't want to gain weight. D:

Seriously, I'd look weird with extra weight.

http://i70.servimg.com/u/f70/17/13/36/61/23571110.jpg

And this time I look slightly crazy. Hmm.

[Castaras]

(Imagines this)
(swoons)

Remind me when I return to Leicester to sort out a picture of me in my monocle sipping tea then... :smalltongue:

[Worira]

Well, humans are monkeys so I expect you do.

Apes, technically.

[Raineh Daze]

Apes, technically.

Strictly speaking, because one of the two main groups of monkeys split off after apes and the other before, apes are also monkeys. Isn't evolution fun?

[Lix Lorn]

Remind me when I return to Leicester to sort out a picture of me in my monocle sipping tea then... :smalltongue:
Lol. Sure? xD

[Heliomance]

I have an Appeal Hearing for my job on the 18th. It's all gone very formal!

[Karen Lynn]

As for the weight issues I want to offer something I refer to as the "Lorsa diet". I'm not sure if it's best for Karen or Raineh though. It goes like this:

1-1.3 litres (do you own convertions from the metric system if you need) of coca cola per day
Lots of pasta (it's quick and easy to make so leaves plenty of time for other stuff)
White bread is much more yummy than dark bread, but choose the one you like best
Meat in various incarnations
(also some vitamins are good)

I'm hoping to start a trend and sell this "Lorsa diet", possibly in book form.

Similar to Atkins, but hasn't Atkins been linked to organ failure due to odd dietary restrictions?


I have an Appeal Hearing for my job on the 18th. It's all gone very formal!

Seems like everything is just starting to work out for you, isn't it? :D

[noparlpf]

I have an Appeal Hearing for my job on the 18th. It's all gone very formal!

Good luck.


Also, similar to Atkins, but hasn't Atkins been linked to organ failure due to odd dietary restrictions?

Hah, thought so. As for the organs, no idea.

[Raineh Daze]

A diet composed solely of high-protein foods isn't good.

And yeah, organ failure. Can't remember why off the top of my head, though I'm sure I used to know. :smallconfused:

[noparlpf]

A diet composed solely of high-protein foods isn't good.

And yeah, organ failure. Can't remember why off the top of my head, though I'm sure I used to know. :smallconfused:

Oh, wait. It's dropping carbs, not fats. So mostly protein, some fat, vegetables, and low-glycemic-index stuff.

The internet suggests it might be bad for the liver and kidneys because they eliminate protein by-products and if you're eating too much protein, that's an issue. Another suggestion is that people end up eating too much saturated fats and cholesterol and that's bad for hearts.

That's generally from people doing it wrong, though, apparently.

[Karen Lynn]

Makes sense.

[KenderWizard]

Diet: Variety is key, generally. You can't really live on any one food group. Except potatoes. Irish people have proven that you can live perfectly well on potatoes and milk. Until the Blight comes and half the population dies or emigrates and everyone gets hella traumatised and our population still hasn't reached pre-Famine levels. But if that doesn't happen, you're golden!


Actually, I quite like the fact that such a strongly feminine coded thing exists - because it means that by adhering to it I can increase my chances of being read as female. If there weren't certain behaviours and stereotypes I could fulfill, it would be harder.

Well, I don't think we're going to get rid of feminine-coded and masculine-coded, but we can probably get rid of feminine-coded being lesser and masculine-coded being default and easier.



A ton is 2,000 pounds. A "metric ton" is 1,000 kilograms. Except that's just a megagram, so there's not point in the "metric ton" existing.

Megagram is a better word anyway.


I have an Appeal Hearing for my job on the 18th. It's all gone very formal!

Good luck! <3

[Astrella]

Actually, I quite like the fact that such a strongly feminine coded thing exists - because it means that by adhering to it I can increase my chances of being read as female. If there weren't certain behaviours and stereotypes I could fulfill, it would be harder.

Well, if gender wasn't so coded there'd also be less policing of people's gender which would also make it easier I'd imagine?


I have a feeling this is harder for transmen, as male-wear is basically the same as many women use.

Hm hm, on the other hand those choosing for HRT tend to have quicker results from it cause masculinizing is easier then undoing it.

[Raineh Daze]

I dunno, how would you get people to acknowledge the correct gender if the distinction is essentially arbitrary?

The kilogram is the single most annoying SI unit, on the grounds that it already has a prefix. :smallannoyed:

[Hylleddin]

And the bit where they call multiple things the same thing, like ounces and ounces, and pounds and pounds, is confusing.

That bugs the crap out of me. I hate trying to figure out how much food something is when they just label it "ounces".

[noparlpf]

Diet: Variety is key, generally. You can't really live on any one food group. Except potatoes. Irish people have proven that you can live perfectly well on potatoes and milk. Until the Blight comes and half the population dies or emigrates and everyone gets hella traumatised and our population still hasn't reached pre-Famine levels. But if that doesn't happen, you're golden!

Pish and tush. Variety is for newbs. I haven't bought more than three kinds of things in months.


Megagram is a better word anyway.

Except when you use prefixes like you're supposed to, sometimes you confuse physics teachers. And sometimes when you use cubits (to mess with them) you confuse them. And sometimes when you need to convert through penises to get to light-years, you confuse them a lot. (What, it's easier to remember how big my penis is in light-years than it is to remember how big a light-year is. I might be switching to cats though. Cats are more PG.)

[HMS Sophia]

I just ate an entire tin of chocolate because I'm in a really sucky place. Delicious but not helpful.
Still, I've lost so much weight recently, I deserve it.

[Karen Lynn]

I just ate an entire tin of chocolate because I'm in a really sucky place. Delicious but not helpful.
Still, I've lost so much weight recently, I deserve it.

*hugs* If you need someone to talk to, I'm always here or on Skype.

[HMS Sophia]

*hugs* If you need someone to talk to, I'm always here or on Skype.

What is your skype boppy thing? (name)

[Lorsa]

Also, similar to Atkins, but hasn't Atkins been linked to organ failure due to odd dietary restrictions?
Organ failure? That's no good! And it seems the "Lorsa diet" is already taken. Although I didn't specify you couldn't eat fat. It's certainly allowed, just not in the excess as the LCHF use. But sugar is good for the soul, I think.

[Karen Lynn]

>.> I forgot... *checks*

adrian-korvedzk

You can add me to the OP as an open contact for people needing talkies. :3


Also, I got this sudden urge to hug you, so... *ambush-hug*.

Organ failure? That's no good! And it seems the "Lorsa diet" is already taken. Although I didn't specify you couldn't eat fat. It's certainly allowed, just not in the excess as the LCHF use. But sugar is good for the soul, I think.

If you don't mind... >.> you could just snip the bit here, too?

*is ambush-hugged. Counters with cuddles* =^-^=

Nommies~ *hunts for some chocolate milk*

[Astrella]

It's actually not that expensive to eat healthily...I have a $200 budget every month for food, gas, and everything else I might need, and I always have some left over. And I still buy extraneous things like ice cream and juice when I don't need them (ice cream is the one unhealthy thing I buy). By comparison, my peers pay anywhere from $1800 to $2800 each semester (so around $500 to $800 a month) for crappy, unhealthy food (most of it is fast food or a smidge above it) on the school's meal plan.

It's not just expense, it's also time. Getting groceries and seeking out balanced meals and such takes a lot more time and aren't as accessible to everyone. Not to mention that not everyone has close access to a store offering those products.


I dunno, how would you get people to acknowledge the correct gender if the distinction is essentially arbitrary?

The kilogram is the single most annoying SI unit, on the grounds that it already has a prefix. :smallannoyed:

Well, I think it'd matter less then? Cause like, there'd be less reasons for social dysphoria I'd assume. Like, I know I'd still have bodily dysphoria but I'd imagine it'd be seen a bit differently in a genderless society?


I have an Appeal Hearing for my job on the 18th. It's all gone very formal!

Hope it goes well!


What is your skype boppy thing? (name)

I'm always up for talking to if anyone needs help or something. (lenaleaner)

[Lorsa]

I just ate an entire tin of chocolate because I'm in a really sucky place. Delicious but not helpful.
Still, I've lost so much weight recently, I deserve it.

I really hope you can get out of your sucky place. If I can help let me know, but Karen's probably better at that anyway!

*ambush-hugs Sophia too*

Alright, bed-time for me.

[Raineh Daze]

Somehow, I imagine a genderless society would view things even worse. I am overly cynical, though. :smallsigh:

[Worira]

Strictly speaking, because one of the two main groups of monkeys split off after apes and the other before, apes are also monkeys. Isn't evolution fun?

No, they're also simians. By no standard definition are they monkeys.

[Karen Lynn]

Well, I think it'd matter less then? Cause like, there'd be less reasons for social dysphoria I'd assume. Like, I know I'd still have bodily dysphoria but I'd imagine it'd be seen a bit differently in a genderless society?


Somehow, I imagine a genderless society would view things even worse. I am overly cynical, though. :smallsigh:

I'd agree with Raineh.
"Other than genitals, there's no difference! Why would you want to change that?"

[Raineh Daze]

Unfortunately, the standard definition is hilariously wrong. There is no case to be made for apes not being monkeys other than people not wanting humans to be classified as monkeys. Which, I should note, is then largely a problem of the English language, because it's not even a universal issue!

Speaking of terrible wording: polyamory. Who decided to mix Greek and Latin word sections (affixes? Is that the word for prefixes AND suffixes?)? :smallmad:

[noparlpf]

It's not just expense, it's also time. Getting groceries and seeking out balanced meals and such takes a lot more time and aren't as accessible to everyone. Not to mention that not everyone has close access to a store offering those products.

Admittedly my supermarket is only two miles away, but I had to shop by bicycle until I got a car last month. Let me tell you, carrying twenty or forty pounds of food on a bicycle is not fun. Though it's better than smaller trips more frequently. And in the long run, isn't poor health more expensive and time-consuming than healthy food?
And it also doesn't take that much time for a simple meal...if you have certain longer days, cook a larger portion the day before and leave some in the fridge. Or do what I do, and make a big pot of chili (3-4 pounds) every week so there's always an easy meal in the fridge. That takes about half an hour of actual time at the stove. Crock pots are also good. That's the next thing I need to get so I can cook slightly more varied stews.
This assumes you have a stove, a refrigerator/freezer, possibly a microwave oven, and a supermarket within a few miles, which granted, not everybody does.

[Astrella]

I'd agree with Raineh.
"Other than genitals, there's no difference! Why would you want to change that?"

That's no different that it is now though. Like, you can make that same argument in current society as well: "But you're already living as a man / woman, why would you want to change your body as well?"

[Lissou]

Derp, fractions, that is what I meant. Basically things like 1/4in 1/8in 1/16in.:smallredface: I wish we'd switch to Metric like everyone else. Switching between units in the English system is ugly.:smallfrown:

Have a chart. (http://imgur.com/gallery/CPuIl5d)
Not that it helps making it look simple.


It's actually not that expensive to eat healthily...I have a $200 budget every month for food, gas, and everything else I might need, and I always have some left over.

As someone who only has €50 left over after living expenses (rent and bills) and needs to live on that for food, transportation, clothing, entertainment and so on, I absolutely know that fast food is more expensive than a healthy home-cooked meal.
I probably should have specified that people nowadays often have busy lives, and so the cheap AND convenient food (popping a pizza in the oven, going to the drive-through) is the unhealthy one. If you're even poorer, then you have to also sacrifice convenience. However most people fall in between, and when they come home from work, they don't feel like cooking. If they're rich, they have a chef or can go to a fancy place. If they're less rich, as I said, premade meals and fast food.


Unfortunately, the standard definition is hilariously wrong. There is no case to be made for apes not being monkeys other than people not wanting humans to be classified as monkeys. Which, I should note, is then largely a problem of the English language, because it's not even a universal issue!

True, they're both "singe" in French, which I guess translates as simian. I'm not quite clear on the difference between the two, as a result, and maybe they even overlap. I do know humans are usually referred to as apes, not monkeys. Actually, my brother-outlaw calls us "crested house-apes" which I love.


Speaking of terrible wording: polyamory. Who decided to mix Greek and Latin word sections (affixes? Is that the word for prefixes AND suffixes?)? :smallmad:

I don't understand why so many people find it to be a problem with "polyamory" and not with "television", "automobile" or "homosexuality". Mixed Latin and Greek roots are super common in English.

[Worira]

But "monkey" very specifically excludes apes. That's essentially the defining feature of it as a word rather than "simian". If you want to say "any member of infraorder Simiformes" without excluding apes, there's a perfectly good word for that already.

[noparlpf]

As someone who only has €50 left over after living expenses (rent and bills) and needs to live on that for food, transportation, clothing, entertainment and so on, I absolutely know that fast food is more expensive than a healthy home-cooked meal.
I probably should have specified that people nowadays often have busy lives, and so the cheap AND convenient food (popping a pizza in the oven, going to the drive-through) is the unhealthy one. If you're even poorer, then you have to also sacrifice convenience. However most people fall in between, and when they come home from work, they don't feel like cooking. If they're rich, they have a chef or can go to a fancy place. If they're less rich, as I said, premade meals and fast food.

It helps that I'm picky, so I can't stand fast food, and my body rejects it because it's unfamiliar/mildly toxic.


I don't understand why so many people find it to be a problem with "polyamory" and not with "television", "automobile" or "homosexuality". Mixed Latin and Greek roots are super common in English.

I don't like it anywhere I know about it, so let's stop pointing out more of them.

[Raineh Daze]

Mostly because polyamory seems especially annoying because sticking to Greek lets you make the word more precise. More words for love, for a start. :smallannoyed:

[Hylleddin]

And it also doesn't take that much time for a simple meal...if you have certain longer days, cook a larger portion the day before and leave some in the fridge. Or do what I do, and make a big pot of chili (3-4 pounds) every week so there's always an easy meal in the fridge. That takes about half an hour of actual time at the stove. Crock pots are also good. That's the next thing I need to get so I can cook slightly more varied stews.

Alternatively, sandwiches. Lots and lots of sandwiches. Seriously, they take like a minute or two to make and you can put almost anything on them. And they require little to no cooking knowledge. They're the best food*.

*except for people who have problems with wheat.

[noparlpf]

Alternatively, sandwiches. Lots and lots of sandwiches. Seriously, they take like a minute or two to make and you can put almost anything on them. And they require little to no cooking knowledge. They're the best food*.

*except for people who have problems with wheat.

Deli meat isn't cheap, though, so if you want meat on a sandwich it's probably cheaper to buy raw meat and cook and slice it yourself. Though cutting meat that thin is a pain.

[Karen Lynn]

Deli meat isn't cheap, though, so if you want meat on a sandwich it's probably cheaper to buy raw meat and cook and slice it yourself. Though cutting meat that thin is a pain.

Which is why I'm glad I own a deli style slicer. ^-^

I. Love. Cooking. *glares*

[noparlpf]

I tried to apply to work at a deli once. They said they were looking for somebody to work the slicers, and asked if I had any experience with cold cuts. So by then I figured I wasn't getting the job due to this "experience" thing, so I just said, "Well, I've eaten a lot of cold cuts." She hung up on me.
A smarter thing to say would have been, "Well my dad teaches woodshop and I've used all kinds of power saws, so I bet I can work it out in a few minutes."

[Raineh Daze]

Cutting meat that thin seems pointless. Less tasty. :smallconfused:

Cooking is fun.

[Kittenwolf]

Well, I don't think we're going to get rid of feminine-coded and masculine-coded, but we can probably get rid of feminine-coded being lesser and masculine-coded being default and easier.

Dear gods YES PLEASE ><
The sooner society gets over this "Male > Female, Masculine > Feminine" &*^%*&^%(^ the better :(

For one thing it'll be a much more equal world for women, and for another it'll mean some MtF & GQ individuals (like myself) won't have a voice in their head going "Why are you contemplating this? You're deliberately making yourself weak. This thinking of yours is heresy against the human race, you deserve shame and ridicule."

Stupid societal idiocy. Grumble

Sorry, had to get that one off my (flat) chest :)


On the diet side of things, I lost ~20kg (desk job + lazy lifestyle means that I hit 100kg at 5'8 with minimal muscle mass and went "err, I should do something here") by basically cutting out sugared softdrink (pepsi max is the only softdrink I drink now), white bread, non-diet cordial, and basically all of the 'extra' sugar that seems to get added to just about everything.
Well, that and being sensible about the sweets that I eat as well.

I really pushed the diet in the tail couple of months (really wanted to look awesome in a ballgown for Halloween) and actually dropped 25, but five came back pretty quickly once I went from "Strict diet" to "Sensible eating"

That was a few years ago now and I'd love to lose another ~10kg so that I get back to a flat stomach and slimmer thighs, but I'm just not having much luck. Someone make a diet drug that works dangit :smallbiggrin:

[Lissou]

Mostly because polyamory seems especially annoying because sticking to Greek lets you make the word more precise. More words for love, for a start. :smallannoyed:

Maybe, but how many people are actually familiar with them? I think "polyamory" does the job fine, because people can look at the word and know what it means. Both "poly-" and variations on "amor" are pretty common already.

Let's face it, when you put "-philia" at the end of a word, people don't think "platonic love, like the one for friends and family". They think "sexual attraction" because they think of pædophilia, zoophilia, necrophilia and so on. They don't think "philosophy" or "philanthropist".

Not saying it should be polyphilia of course. I'm thinking polyagape would be the one if you wanted to be all Greek, but who the hell would know what you're talking about?

I like consistency, and I like respecting language, but language is still before all a method of communicating, and so it should be understandable by as many people as possible.
So I don't see mixed roots as a betrayal as much as a demonstration of how English comes from many sources, which now are part of the English language and understanding. As such "polyamory" comes from English roots, in a way. Both "poly" and "amor" are established enough in the English language that the word was formed somewhat organically.
Plus I think it sounds good. And if I had to change it, I wouldn't go the Greek route, I would say multiamory, because both parts are still understood by the general public.

[Kittenwolf]

Which is why I'm glad I own a deli style slicer. ^-^

I. Love. Cooking. *glares*

Me too :D
Alas cooking for one gets boring pretty quick, so most of my meals are pretty simple 'meat and three veg' or 'lets turn two minute noodles into a raman-type-thing by adding meat, veggies and egg'.

My cooking style tends towards experimental. Things like Kangaroo Bolognase with Hoi-sin and mint sauces with Feta melted in :)

I did recently discover a really tasty sauce for cooking white fish by randomly combining things I thought would work.
Throw lemon juice, honey, season salt, a dash of cajun pepper into a wok. Chuck half a dozen fillets of white fish in.
Cook, turning once.
Nom!

[Hylleddin]

Deli meat isn't cheap, though, so if you want meat on a sandwich it's probably cheaper to buy raw meat and cook and slice it yourself. Though cutting meat that thin is a pain.

Ah, I'm vegetarian so that doesn't really affect me.

By the way,

Biathlon, Bigamy, Bioluminescence, Claustrophobia, Dysfunction, Electrocution, Eusociality, Geostationary, Heterosexual, Hexadecimal, Homosexual, Hyperactive, Liposuction, Metadata, Monoculture, Monogamy, Monolingual, Neonate, Neuroscience, Neurotransmitter, Quadriplegia, Sociology, Sociopath, Tonsillectomy, Vexillology

:smalltongue:

[noparlpf]

Ah, I'm vegetarian so that doesn't really affect me.

By the way,

Biathlon, Bigamy, Bioluminescence, Claustrophobia, Dysfunction, Electrocution, Eusociality, Geostationary, Heterosexual, Hexadecimal, Homosexual, Hyperactive, Liposuction, Metadata, Monoculture, Monogamy, Monolingual, Neonate, Neuroscience, Neurotransmitter, Quadriplegia, Sociology, Sociopath, Tonsillectomy, Vexillology

:smalltongue:

You monster!! :smalltongue:

[Raineh Daze]

My first thought for -philia is that sort of word, though. Bibliophile, specifically.

Please excuse me whilst I invent a time machine to deal with the travesty that is hexadecimal. There is no excuse for mixing languages for numbers. >_>

[Kittenwolf]

My first thought for -philia is that sort of word, though. Bibliophile, specifically.

Please excuse me whilst I invent a time machine to deal with the travesty that is hexadecimal. There is no excuse for mixing languages for numbers. >_>

What's wrong with Hex? :smallamused:
It's not Hex's fault that us silly humans had to adapt a Base-10 counting system without unique characters for the last seven digits :smallsmile:

[turkishproverb]

I think the cat portion would continue to go first, seeing as there's catboys as well. Cat -> Gender. :smallbiggrin:

Now I'm just remembering my theory on why there are so many Catgirl/normal boy relationships, and catboy/normal boy relationships in anime.

[Raineh Daze]

What's wrong with Hex? :smallamused:
It's not Hex's fault that us silly humans had to adapt a Base-10 counting system without unique characters for the last seven digits :smallsmile:

No no, I mean the hexa + decimal parts. If both sections of the word deal with the exact same thing, stick to one language. Some basic intraword consistency would be nice.

Not a fan of letters, though. Makes me think it's algebra every time it's something like 6A.


Now I'm just remembering my theory on why there are so many Catgirl/normal boy relationships, and catboy/normal boy relationships in anime.

Because cats are awesome?

[Arachu]

So at work today, some colleagues saw a picture of me with my hair down... and that's it. Reaction:
Colleague 1: "Oh that's a nice picture"
Colleague 2: "You look very girly with your hair down"
Colleague 1: "Is that you? I assumed it was your (female) ex"...

...What... :smalltongue:

XD


We all know you can pass! Believes in yourself~~

You should dress up more often! Especially this Friday!
Seriously, full on girl mode! Activate! Go! Go! Go! :D

Also, lately I've been feeling especially feminine. Feels good! Now, to get some new skirts and to lose weight.

These feel 'good' emotions are strange... I likes~

Skirts are awesome. Losing weight kinda sucks, until you're done doing it. :smalltongue:

... Not that I'd know about that part, I'm only like halfway there. >.<


~Bianca

[Lissou]

My first thought for -philia is that sort of word, though. Bibliophile, specifically.

Oh, I'm not saying it wouldn't be YOUR first though. Or the first thought of some people. But I think the majority of people, when seeing "polyphilia" would think "is that one of those weird sexual things like pædophilia?" and I'll take a word that won't do that over a word that will, all else being equal.
I guess I'm a bit hypocritical in that I'm also trying to reclaim the word "polygamy" that people seem to only use in negative ways, as in "this form of plural marriage that I disagree with", sometimes in such a restrictive way that it only includes religious heterosexual polygynous relationships that involve abuse specifically.

But maybe it's a bit different because it's a word that's already in use and so I want to try and make it mean what it does mean (several spouses, and by extension several partners, just like monogamy can be used without implying marriage), while the case of polyamory vs something else, I'd rather keep the word already in use than establish a new one, even if that new one might be more accurate to people who can actually tell that sort of things.

[turkishproverb]

No no, I mean the hexa + decimal parts. If both sections of the word deal with the exact same thing, stick to one language. Some basic intraword consistency would be nice.

Not a fan of letters, though. Makes me think it's algebra every time it's something like 6A.



Because cats are awesome?

Because cat's have barbed...extremities. I'll leave it at that so it stays SFW. :smallwink:

[Raineh Daze]

Oh, that. ... but that doesn't explain all catboy/normal human relationships. :smallamused:

[Kittenwolf]

Oh, that. ... but that doesn't explain all catboy/normal human relationships. :smallamused:

Does that mean cat is a third gender? :D

[turkishproverb]

Oh, that. ... but that doesn't explain all catboy/normal human relationships. :smallamused:

Well, the catboys have to hook up with someone. And it's not like the human males have the same problem :smallcool:

[Raineh Daze]

Well, the catboys have to hook up with someone. And it's not like the human males have the same problem :smallcool:

But wouldn't the catboys have the same problem? That's what I was getting at, still bearing catboy/normal human male in mind. :smallbiggrin:

[turkishproverb]

But wouldn't the catboys have the same problem? That's what I was getting at, still bearing catboy/normal human male in mind. :smallbiggrin:

Well yes, but that's only a problem if the catboy wants to do certain fun things, as opposed to other fun things. :smallwink:

[Coidzor]

Late to the Party, @SiuiS:
Today there is an article about thigh gap.

Thigh gap is apparently a thing. That alone is enough to make me :smallconfused:. Further, it's a desirable thing – not because of anything to do with your body and how to maximize it but because twitter says so. There is a prevailing wave of "if you are female, and can touch your knees together and there is still space between your thighs, you are more attractive" and basically what what the hell is this crap I dont even.

Huh. That's pretty wiggy. The first place I ever ran into that was part of discussions on 4chan where the woman's perspective on the matter was irrelevant. Never heard of it breaking out of that particular layer of trolldom till now. :smallconfused: Still don't get it, I must admit.


The worst part is that you can't counter with "that's not actually better looking" because for some people, it is.but, seriously? Ugh! I want to give women as a collective a hug :smalleek:

Sure you can, since those people who like anorexia are nobadwrongfun for encouraging self-destructive behavior and buying into a massive cultural delusion, so it all evens out.


Every female I've talked to (admittedly few) has claimed that they constantly self-lubricate anyway and that anyone who says otherwise is a damn dirty liar who doesn't want to admit it for fear of being considered unclean. It's just not an easy topic to broach, you know? So I can't verify one way or another.

I've yet to encounter a woman that did self-lubricate in a discernible manner at any time other than menstruation (debatable) or prolonged sexual arousal. Certainly not to the point where they needed to take measures to avoid having to change underwear several times in a day, which I believe is the case for that variant of SRS at the moment. Or at least, it was the last time I really had it come to my attention and I looked into it.


In the individual scale, there is absolutely no problem with presenting yourself in a stereotypical feminine fashion, so long as you are aware that you are doing it by choice and that is not the One True Expression of Womanhood.

I would say that there is still the potential for problems, depending upon how one is defining a stereotypical feminine fashion, as many groups define stereotypical female behavior as a set of behaviors that are themselves inherently toxic and damaging to those who engage in them and those around them. Choosing to engage in negative behavior doesn't negate that it is negative behavior.

Cattiness is a female stereotype, after all.



Strictly speaking, because one of the two main groups of monkeys split off after apes and the other before, apes are also monkeys. Isn't evolution fun?

Don't let the Librarian hear you use the m word. :smalltongue:


I have an Appeal Hearing for my job on the 18th. It's all gone very formal!

Good luck.


Mostly because polyamory seems especially annoying because sticking to Greek lets you make the word more precise. More words for love, for a start. :smallannoyed:

Why would you need more words for love for a term that's going to be an umbrella anyway in a language that requires specification of which kind of love though generally gives it from context anyway or at least we really hope so? Even if you went the route of the ubernoun and included everything and the kitchen sink it'd still not be quite right since it's not even a constant across all of them to feature multiple types. :smallconfused:

I'm kind of curious as to how it'd look like in this line of thinking though, I must admit.


Deli meat isn't cheap, though, so if you want meat on a sandwich it's probably cheaper to buy raw meat and cook and slice it yourself. Though cutting meat that thin is a pain.

Strewth. Pulled pork and pulled chicken were developed for good reasons.

...now I want barbecue. x.x


Cutting meat that thin seems pointless. Less tasty. :smallconfused:

The thickness is only relevant to the texture, not the flavor, and mostly makes it easier to chew and to fit more layers and types of meats into one sandvich. :smallconfused:


Oh, I'm not saying it wouldn't be YOUR first though. Or the first thought of some people. But I think the majority of people, when seeing "polyphilia" would think "is that one of those weird sexual things like pædophilia?" and I'll take a word that won't do that over a word that will, all else being equal.
I guess I'm a bit hypocritical in that I'm also trying to reclaim the word "polygamy" that people seem to only use in negative ways, as in "this form of plural marriage that I disagree with", sometimes in such a restrictive way that it only includes religious heterosexual polygynous relationships that involve abuse specifically.

Well, yeah, real world precedent and history is like that. It's a bit like being surprised that some people aren't comfortable with master and slave things because of the whole human slavery as a thing we haven't even gotten rid of yet deal.


Now I'm just remembering my theory on why there are so many Catgirl/normal boy relationships, and catboy/normal boy relationships in anime.

Is it because they're not human so it's an easy way to get drama/"spice?"


But wouldn't the catboys have the same problem? That's what I was getting at, still bearing catboy/normal human male in mind. :smallbiggrin:

The nonhuman is subordinate to the human...

Usually. Unless they're into that.

[Raineh Daze]

Now, at least one of them is going to want to do those fun things, and it's a bit of a stretch to assume their partner will enjoy the obstacle to those fun things. Especially because that would end very poorly from a health perspective, not that fiction is generally concerned about that. No, there must be more reasons at work than barbs! :smalltongue:

[Eirala]

Comments on 'unhealthily thin' make me feel awkward, because I'm generally not that far off that. Certainly manage to be vaguely skeletal at all times. XD

Sounds familiar. You can count the number of ribs a human has on me anytime, no need for an anatomy book or wiki :smalltongue:


Heh. I love the hardware. ;3

I like working on computers. Lot of fun for me.

Hardware's great. And overclocking, which is much cheaper than building a PC every now and then to satisfy the need to meddle with something worth several 100€s.

A nearly complete computer and bits of hardware are lying near me right now. Need to change the motherboard though, has problems with the RAM slots. I know why i usually take ASUS.

---

Also, yay for being happy. And feeling feminine. And being able to cope with boymode while still being happy.
I actually have both the time and the energy to do other things besides thinking about being trans* or trying to distract me from it at the moment ^_^ I hope that lasts a while.

Even though i had a creep trying to skype me just yesterday (which hit me really hard :/ ) i'm already much better. Not as good as before, but i'm not complaining. I'm better than the last...6 months or so :smallsmile:

*offers hugs to everyone*

[Raineh Daze]

Yay, hugs~

Huh, so I have Skype installed. I did not realise that. :smallconfused:

[Kittenwolf]

The nonhuman is subordinate to the human...


*Meows* :smallwink:


Hardware's great. And overclocking, which is much cheaper than building a PC every now and then to satisfy the need to meddle with something worth several 100€s.

A nearly complete computer and bits of hardware are lying near me right now. Need to change the motherboard though, has problems with the RAM slots. I know why i usually take ASUS.

I really should look at overclocking mine, it's got a nutty heat sink in it after all :)





Also, yay for being happy. And feeling feminine. And being able to cope with boymode while still being happy.
I actually have both the time and the energy to do other things besides thinking about being trans* or trying to distract me from it at the moment ^_^ I hope that lasts a while.

Even though i had a creep trying to skype me just yesterday (which hit me really hard :/ ) i'm already much better. Not as good as before, but i'm not complaining. I'm better than the last...6 months or so :smallsmile:

*offers hugs to everyone*

Yay for feeling happy! *Big Hugs*
Here's to that feeling sticking around for a long time to come :)

[TaiLiu]

Does that mean cat is a third gender? :D
I believe that I'll claim 'cat' as my gender. :smallcool:

*offers hugs to everyone*
Excellent! I'll take three and a half.

[Lix Lorn]

I have a 'friend' who has what is all but an essay on why catgirls are so popular.

[TaiLiu]

I have a 'friend' who has what is all but an essay on why catgirls are so popular.
I would like to view your 'friend's' essay. What is the reason?

[Akowrules]

It's mostly connective tissue, isn't it? That's good protein. Just need to cook it for long enough.

Penis stew. (http://bertc.com/subfive/recipes/penisstew.htm)

...........this is so hard not to make a funny comment, so I will! But it'll be in a spoiler, so no one will be offended, unless if they choose to look! *feels like a genius*

Warning. NSFW :smalltongue:
As much as I like to eat penis, that's a bit much.

[Coidzor]

I believe that I'll claim 'cat' as my gender. :smallcool:

Excellent! I'll take three and a half.

But... But... You're a 9-tails!


I have a 'friend' who has what is all but an essay on why catgirls are so popular.

I'm more worried about the apostrophes than the essay... :smalleek:

[TaiLiu]

But... But... You're a 9-tails!
Ninetales is my species. Cat is my gender. :smallcool:

[Akowrules]

Ninetales is my species. Cat is my gender. :smallcool:

But...... I thought nine tails were a type of canine? I mean, from the muzzle and nose size, that's what I think....... But I could be wrong....... But who cares! Cat gendered people are cool :smallcool:

[TaiLiu]

But...... I thought nine tails were a type of canine? I mean, from the muzzle and nose size, that's what I think....... But I could be wrong....... But who cares! Cat gendered people are cool :smallcool:
Ninetales is based on a fox (or fox spirit), yes.

The cat gender's just another way to say that I don't identity with either gender, really. Also, I like cats. (I think. I've never had a cat.)

[Raineh Daze]

Cats are nice. I have a cat. She's smarter than my dog, understanding that ajar doors can be pushed open. Somehow, my dog cannot understand this. :smallsigh:

[Coidzor]

Ninetales is based on a fox (or fox spirit), yes.

The cat gender's just another way to say that I don't identity with either gender, really. Also, I like cats. (I think. I've never had a cat.)

It's mostly a cunning and elaborate ruse, really. Mostly it amounts to two things involving boxes. The first is that if they fits, they sits. The second is that they poop in them. And you have to pick it up.

Forever. Forever.

[Kittenwolf]

Cats are indeed awesome ^^

My girl side definitely identifies with cats and would love to be a catgirl, my male side is more of a werewolf person...

[Al'izh'dheg]

My goodness everybody! A girl goes off an gets sick, and comes back 7 pages into a new thread! :)

I trust everybody's played nice with each other. I skimmed some of what I missed, but it was 14 pages and I'm sorry, I only caught a few highlights. Enough that I can wave at the new person! Hi new person. :)

My tummy is finally settling down now, and I'll try to be good and keep up again. Umm... in trying to look at the bright side of every bad situation, I lost over 5 pounds in 3 days. Yeah. Not so good, but the weight is gone. In better news, I was actually able to eat today. And eat I did. 6 pieces of tekka maki (tuna sushi), fried rice, filet steak, small salad, soup. Mmm. So good. My tummy is grumbling, probably trying to figure out what all this "solid food" nonsense is. Hehe. I'll probably pay for overindulging later, but darn if it wasn't nice to rejoin normal people eating normal foods.

Nothing like the stomach flu to (at least temporarily) make you completely uncaring of gender issues in yourself. Heh. On the porcelain throne we are all equals, yes?

[TaiLiu]

Cats are nice. I have a cat. She's smarter than my dog, understanding that ajar doors can be pushed open. Somehow, my dog cannot understand this. :smallsigh:
Maybe your could train your dog to do that...?

It's mostly a cunning and elaborate ruse, really. Mostly it amounts to two things involving boxes. The first is that if they fits, they sits. The second is that they poop in them. And you have to pick it up.

Forever. Forever.
Hm. The vibe I'm getting: cats are cruel.

Cats are indeed awesome ^^

My girl side definitely identifies with cats and would love to be a catgirl, my male side is more of a werewolf person...
The vibe I'm getting: cats are great.

Hm... :smallconfused:

Nothing like the stomach flu to (at least temporarily) make you completely uncaring of gender issues in yourself. Heh. On the porcelain throne we are all equals, yes?
Different immune system strengths would cause some inequality, no?

Anyway, good to have you back.

[Coidzor]

Hm. The vibe I'm getting: cats are cruel.

The vibe I'm getting: cats are great.

She am become Tardar Sauce: Grumper of Worlds.

[Karen Lynn]

Me too :D
Alas cooking for one gets boring pretty quick, so most of my meals are pretty simple 'meat and three veg' or 'lets turn two minute noodles into a raman-type-thing by adding meat, veggies and egg'.

My cooking style tends towards experimental. Things like Kangaroo Bolognase with Hoi-sin and mint sauces with Feta melted in :)

I did recently discover a really tasty sauce for cooking white fish by randomly combining things I thought would work.
Throw lemon juice, honey, season salt, a dash of cajun pepper into a wok. Chuck half a dozen fillets of white fish in.
Cook, turning once.
Nom!

I agree. It's why I got a male roomie. He can cook okay, but loves it when I cook. He also thinks I'm strange ever since I came out to him, but it's ok. He's open minded enough that I didn't see issue with it.

Ooohhh.... *steals* I tend to experiment a lot in my kitchen. I've made some neat discoveries as well. Only problem: My taste errs on the side of "So spicy most people cry"... Although I do love my baked lemon garlic chicken... *drools*


Ah, I'm vegetarian so that doesn't really affect me.

By the way,

Biathlon, Bigamy, Bioluminescence, Claustrophobia, Dysfunction, Electrocution, Eusociality, Geostationary, Heterosexual, Hexadecimal, Homosexual, Hyperactive, Liposuction, Metadata, Monoculture, Monogamy, Monolingual, Neonate, Neuroscience, Neurotransmitter, Quadriplegia, Sociology, Sociopath, Tonsillectomy, Vexillology

:smalltongue:

Love that word. I want to get bioluminescent hair~


Skirts are awesome. Losing weight kinda sucks, until you're done doing it. :smalltongue:

... Not that I'd know about that part, I'm only like halfway there. >.<


~Bianca

They are! And it does. *pouts* Oh well. New job+Living next door to a twenty four hour gym has it's benefits.


Hardware's great. And overclocking, which is much cheaper than building a PC every now and then to satisfy the need to meddle with something worth several 100€s.

A nearly complete computer and bits of hardware are lying near me right now. Need to change the motherboard though, has problems with the RAM slots. I know why i usually take ASUS.

---

Also, yay for being happy. And feeling feminine. And being able to cope with boymode while still being happy.
I actually have both the time and the energy to do other things besides thinking about being trans* or trying to distract me from it at the moment ^_^ I hope that lasts a while.

Even though i had a creep trying to skype me just yesterday (which hit me really hard :/ ) i'm already much better. Not as good as before, but i'm not complaining. I'm better than the last...6 months or so :smallsmile:

*offers hugs to everyone*

ASUS fan as well? Gotta say, I love ASUS. Always have. They just have so much style on top of their function, and being designed for overclocking...

Speaking of, saving up for a G75 with 32Gb RAM, 3.2GHz quad core proc, 3Gb 3D Video card, and 3D screen. Looking at 3-4k for it.

*nods* Weirder dreams, lately. Been feeling better about myself when waking up. Odd... Maybe every night I am slowly re-writing my genetic code to shift female? :P I wish...

Ewww... Creeper...

:zoidberg: I'll take eight!



*Meows*

Kitty~ *pets*


My goodness everybody! A girl goes off an gets sick, and comes back 7 pages into a new thread! :)

I trust everybody's played nice with each other. I skimmed some of what I missed, but it was 14 pages and I'm sorry, I only caught a few highlights. Enough that I can wave at the new person! Hi new person. :)

My tummy is finally settling down now, and I'll try to be good and keep up again. Umm... in trying to look at the bright side of every bad situation, I lost over 5 pounds in 3 days. Yeah. Not so good, but the weight is gone. In better news, I was actually able to eat today. And eat I did. 6 pieces of tekka maki (tuna sushi), fried rice, filet steak, small salad, soup. Mmm. So good. My tummy is grumbling, probably trying to figure out what all this "solid food" nonsense is. Hehe. I'll probably pay for overindulging later, but darn if it wasn't nice to rejoin normal people eating normal foods.

Nothing like the stomach flu to (at least temporarily) make you completely uncaring of gender issues in yourself. Heh. On the porcelain throne we are all equals, yes?

Allie! *hugs* No, we haven't been playing nice. We're us! And I'm glad you're feeling better! Was getting worried!

[TaiLiu]

She am become Tardar Sauce: Grumper of Worlds.
A grumpy internet sensation...?

Love that word. I want to get bioluminescent hair~
How would you sleep? :smalleek:

[Karen Lynn]

How would you sleep? :smalleek:

Like I do every night! Close my eyes, relax, and drift off to Ætheria, Realm of Dreams!

[TaiLiu]

Like I do every night! Close my eyes, relax, and drift off to Ætheria, Realm of Dreams!
With... With bright lights shining into your eyes? :smalleek:

[Karen Lynn]

With... With bright lights shining into your eyes? :smalleek:

When driving team, I had to sleep while someone else drove the 80,000lbs gross weight truck across the country, through cities and mountains, through all sorts of weather, while he was cranking talk radio and heavy metal, usually with the curtains slightly open so I could get better airflow in the sleeper.

I think a soft, cold-light like bio-luminescent hair should be easy to adapt to. :3

[TaiLiu]

When driving team, I had to sleep while someone else drove the 80,000lbs gross weight truck across the country, through cities and mountains, through all sorts of weather, while he was cranking talk radio and heavy metal, usually with the curtains slightly open so I could get better airflow in the sleeper.

I think a soft, cold-light like bio-luminescent hair should be easy to adapt to. :3
After listing that feat, I am inclined to concur.

Hair grows and falls off all the time, though, and redoing it again and again may be costly. Then again, with your pay check...

[Karen Lynn]

After listing that feat, I am inclined to concur.

Hair grows and falls off all the time, though, and redoing it again and again may be costly. Then again, with your pay check...

Oh, I'm not talking dyes or anything. I'm talking genetic addition, adding the bio-luminescent gene alongside my own code, near the hair genes, so all my hair is bio-luminescent! :3

[TaiLiu]

Oh, I'm not talking dyes or anything. I'm talking genetic addition, adding the bio-luminescent gene alongside my own code, near the hair genes, so all my hair is bio-luminescent! :3
Ah, I see. That's a brighter idea than mine.

[Karen Lynn]

*nods* I just want it to be permanent. Besides, it's so faint on average that you couldn't see it in sunlight or brightly lit rooms. More of a club/party thing. Now, what I'm wondering is if I can choose the color, or if it's the same at all times, or if it shifts naturally... And how it would effect dietary requirements...

[Kittenwolf]

Ooohhh.... *steals* I tend to experiment a lot in my kitchen. I've made some neat discoveries as well. Only problem: My taste errs on the side of "So spicy most people cry"... Although I do love my baked lemon garlic chicken... *drools*


Sounds tasty :)
I also tend to try for fun things with baked goods as well. My Bailies Shortbread tends to vanish very quickly whenever it's on offer...



Love that word. I want to get bioluminescent hair~

That would be fun :)
I really hope that cosmetic genetic alterations and proper augmented reality exist within my lifetime.
I'd love AR glasses that let me see Pokemon and fantasty games "IRL", and I can think of some wonderful cosmetic genetic (or cyber really) patches that I'd love to add to myself ^^



Kitty~ *pets*

*Starts purring*

[Eldest]

That would be fun :)
I really hope that cosmetic genetic alterations and proper augmented reality exist within my lifetime.
I'd love AR glasses that let me see Pokemon and fantasty games "IRL", and I can think of some wonderful cosmetic genetic (or cyber really) patches that I'd love to add to myself ^^

Step one: already here. (http://www.google.com/glass/start/)

[Lissou]

Well, yeah, real world precedent and history is like that. It's a bit like being surprised that some people aren't comfortable with master and slave things because of the whole human slavery as a thing we haven't even gotten rid of yet deal.

Yes, but monogamy has at least as much of a history of patriarchy and abuse and yet when you say "monogamy" the image that springs in people's minds isn't immediately negative. And nowadays most of the abuse happens in monogamous relationship, most religious people are monogamous, and so on, because monogamy is more common and abuse happens in all sorts of relationship.

So it's not just about historic precedent. There is definitely a lack of exposure. Out of the families that live as married with more than two people in them, the ones who practice religious polygyny are a minority, and then even among these, not all of them are patriarchal, not all of them are abusive, etc.

But monogamy being all over the place, people can see that there are monogamous people who are, well, pretty much anything, good or bad, and that it doesn't go with being monogamous, it goes with being human.

Anyways, I wasn't blaming people for thinking of this particular image when they hear "polygamy", I'm just saying that I'm doing my best to use it in other contexts where I believe it applies and that I hope eventually it won't have the same connotations anymore.

[Asta Kask]

No, they're also simians. By no standard definition are they monkeys.

AronRa begs to differ. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmWbgKzpew4)

[Kittenwolf]

[QUOTE=Eldest;15030925]Step one: already here. (http://www.google.com/glass/start/)

I have very big hopes for those :D

[Karen Lynn]

As do I. *total cyberpunk fangirl*

[TaiLiu]

[QUOTE=Karen Lynn;15030658]

I have very big hopes for those :D

As do I. *total cyberpunk fangirl*
I'll choose to go against the tide and cynically declare that I do not have high hopes for these.

[Karen Lynn]

Awwww.... Don't like cyberpunk style stuff?

[TaiLiu]

Awwww.... Don't like cyberpunk style stuff?
They just seem unwieldy, is all.

[Karen Lynn]

They just seem unwieldy, is all.

They do. But if they do well enough, then I can have my AR biker goggles and AR gloves. They need to set the baseline!

[Thajocoth]

Re: The previously mentioned stew

Of the forums I go to, I would've voted this one least likely to link that recipe.

In other news, one of my cookbooks is titled "To Serve Man (http://compare.ebay.com/like/321093098922?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar)".

[TaiLiu]

In other news, one of my cookbooks is titled "To Serve Man (http://compare.ebay.com/like/321093098922?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar)".
:smalleek:

[Lissou]

Re: The previously mentioned stew

Of the forums I go to, I would've voted this one least likely to link that recipe.

In other news, one of my cookbooks is titled "To Serve Man (http://compare.ebay.com/like/321093098922?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar)".

That reminds me of a short story that became an episode in the Twilight Zone. Anyone else read it? I found it excellent.

[Asta Kask]

That reminds me of a short story that became an episode in the Twilight Zone. Anyone else read it? I found it excellent.

Isn't there a Simpsons episode around that theme?

[Heliomance]

Ah, I see. That's a brighter idea than mine.

I see what you did there.

As regards cooking, I quite enjoy it, but I can rarely be bothered to cook for just myself - it seems like such a waste of effort. I really do like cooking for other people though.I just wish I knew more recipes.

[The Succubus]

I've recently discovered the Joy of Baking. Less exhausting than other Joys but possibly just as messy. :smallamused:

[SiuiS]

*
Actually, I quite like the fact that such a strongly feminine coded thing exists - because it means that by adhering to it I can increase my chances of being read as female. If there weren't certain behaviours and stereotypes I could fulfill, it would be harder.

Yeah, but it directly conflicts with the easiest path to ending gender discrimination. Fun, right?

I suppose that some amount of discrimination is okay. Discriminating tastes are considered good, for example. It's a matter of judging more than anything else. I think the easiest path is making it so feminine !< masculine, rather than making them not feminine or masculine, but... It's a weird problem, you know?


Soda is probably the only thing an American wouldn't need to do unit conversions for. *For some reason soda is sold in 2 liter bottles here, but we use the English system for just about everything else. :smallconfused:

They sell three liter bottles, too.


Yep, we in the USA all still call it the "English System", despite it not being used in England anymore. Feet, inches, cups, gallons, etc... All English.

Imperial, mostly, is what I've heard. This thread just today is the first mention of English system I've encountered.


Imperial system for the great and mighty Empire.

HAIL BRITANNIA. *salute*

*sips tea*

*adjusts monocle*

:smallbiggrin;

I want to hug you. Can I hug you?


Aren't Tonnes metric?

Oh, new avatar. Shiny~!


We NEVER used cups as measurement - I seriously don't get the American fetish for measuring ingredients by volume. How the hell do you measure butter by volume?

Pre-measured on the stick. Also, ounces are both a volume and a weight, and food sometimes goes back and forth. A cup is half a pound. XD


Also, your gallons are notably different from how ours ever were.

Americans don't even get American gallons. We just assume the gallon jug is a gallon and use it for reference when no one is looking.


Sticks of butter come with the amount in tablespoons and whatever marked on the wrapper.
(I hate the American volume system. I still don't get it. And the bit where they call multiple things the same thing, like ounces and ounces, and pounds and pounds, is confusing.)

Pound is always weight.



It's actually not that expensive to eat healthily...I have a $200 budget every month for food, gas, and everything else I might need, and I always have some left over. And I still buy extraneous things like ice cream and juice when I don't need them (ice cream is the one unhealthy thing I buy). By comparison, my peers pay anywhere from $1800 to $2800 each semester (so around $500 to $800 a month) for crappy, unhealthy food (most of it is fast food or a smidge above it) on the school's meal plan.

Depends in the person? I suspect I live much like you do, and $50 USD covered me for over a month. But fresh/healthy food expires faster so you can't buy as much in bulk so you pay a larger unit price and when you're looking to add a healthy meal or two to an already established diet, you're paying roughly $12-$15 each time an flick that I can get a week's worth of food at McDonald's for that price.


I*
Seriously, I'd look weird with extra weight.

http://i70.servimg.com/u/f70/17/13/36/61/23571110.jpg

And this time I look slightly crazy. Hmm.

Ooh la la.


A diet composed solely of high-protein foods isn't good.

And yeah, organ failure. Can't remember why off the top of my head, though I'm sure I used to know. :smallconfused:

Your brain needs a minimum amount of carbohydrates and cholesterol daily.



What, it's easier to remember how big my penis is in light-years than it is to remember how big a light-year is. I might be switching to cats though. Cats are more PG.)

What?

I... What?

But for that you'd have to measure... Across time to account... Variance... And... Convert to... But....



What?


Unfortunately, the standard definition is hilariously wrong. There is no case to be made for apes not being monkeys other than people not wanting humans to be classified as monkeys. Which, I should note, is then largely a problem of the English language, because it's not even a universal issue!

Thank goodness I am a fairy, and needn't be shackled by your human taxonomies.


Speaking of terrible wording: polyamory. Who decided to mix Greek and Latin word sections (affixes? Is that the word for prefixes AND suffixes?)? :smallmad:

Eh. Pan sexual gets the same. Plus all those words that showed up to vex mr "I measure the universe in phallus". XD


Admittedly my supermarket is only two miles away, but I had to shop by bicycle until I got a car last month. Let me tell you, carrying twenty or forty pounds of food on a bicycle is not fun.

Back pack!


Though it's better than smaller trips more frequently. And in the long run, isn't poor health more expensive and time-consuming than healthy food?

That's never the question. Expense is measured monthly or by paycheck. And you don't get the negative effects in a 35 day span.


And it also doesn't take that much time for a simple meal...if you have certain longer days, cook a larger portion the day before and leave some in the fridge. Or do what I do, and make a big pot of chili (3-4 pounds) every week so there's always an easy meal in the fridge. That takes about half an hour of actual time at the stove. Crock pots are also good. That's the next thing I need to get so I can cook slightly more varied stews.
This assumes you have a stove, a refrigerator/freezer, possibly a microwave oven, and a supermarket within a few miles, which granted, not everybody does.

Harder to do well than you'd think, sometimes. I work nights, and have for ten years. And it's finally wearing on me. I get home, I dont do chores. I just say "oh, when I have time for it" and pass out. And I never have time for it. I'm always sleeping or off to work.

I fantasize about having a normal job. So I can cook and clean, and see sunlight an have friends. Sigh.

But until that happens, any amount of cooking that takes literally more than three minutes? Doesn't happen.


Dear gods YES PLEASE ><
The sooner society gets over this "Male > Female, Masculine > Feminine" &*^%*&^%(^ the better :(

For one thing it'll be a much more equal world for women, and for another it'll mean some MtF & GQ individuals (like myself) won't have a voice in their head going "Why are you contemplating this? You're deliberately making yourself weak. This thinking of yours is heresy against the human race, you deserve shame and ridicule."

I take that I have never had a voice like that as a sign that, outlier or no, your species is slowly growing out of it.



On the diet side of things, I lost ~20kg (desk job + lazy lifestyle means that I hit 100kg at 5'8 with minimal muscle mass and went "err, I should do something here") by basically cutting out sugared softdrink (pepsi max is the only softdrink I drink now), white bread, non-diet cordial, and basically all of the 'extra' sugar that seems to get added to just about everything.
Well, that and being sensible about the sweets that I eat as well.*

I really pushed the diet in the tail couple of months (really wanted to look awesome in a ballgown for Halloween) and actually dropped 25, but five came back pretty quickly once I went from "Strict diet" to "Sensible eating"

That was a few years ago now and I'd love to lose another ~10kg so that I get back to a flat stomach and slimmer thighs, but I'm just not having much luck. Someone make a diet drug that works dangit :smallbiggrin:

I'm reminded of an old SNL skit; "Move more, Eat less!" XD

Anyhow. Different types of activity work differently. If you have ten minutes a day, and an MP3 player, download music for Tabata Method stuff. Basically, you do eight repetitions. Soft/slow for ten seconds, full speed for twenty. Repeat eight times.

"oh, four minutes!" you say. "cake!" you say.

The cake is a lie.

This stuff is HARD. It keeps your metabolism going for around eight-ten hours, burning fat the while, and builds a specific form of muscle tissue that also burns fat more. Do an an workout of some variety (lie on back, lift legs, alternate right elbow to left knee, left elbow to right knee) and you'll get some neat results if you can stick with it. I couldn't. >_<

But hey! It's literally five minutes, a yoga mat and an MP3 player away. All you gotta do is spend the $10-$50 to get set up :3

It's how I plan on getting my bikini body back, at least >_>


Oh, that. ... but that doesn't explain all catboy/normal human relationships. :smallamused:

Masochism?


Late to the Party, @SiuiS
Sure you can, since those people who like anorexia are nobadwrongfun for encouraging self-destructive behavior and buying into a massive cultural delusion, so it all evens out.

Eh. I meant that "This is both unhealthy and doesn't look good" is too easy to thwart. "it's healthy for me!" well, okay. "it looks goo on me!" uh, sure, but "so obviously you're wrong!" err...



I've yet to encounter a woman that did self-lubricate in a discernible manner at any time other than menstruation (debatable) or prolonged sexual arousal. *Certainly not to the point where they needed to take measures to avoid having to change underwear several times in a day, which I believe is the case for that variant of SRS at the moment. *Or at least, it was the last time I really had it come to my attention and I looked into it.

Yeah, you've had the exact utter opposite experience as me. Ado I need to play the unfortunately dirty-snooker card;

How many of these women trusted you as "one of the girls" enough to confess to you something like this, for which they feel they would be thrown out of western society as unclean? Maybe you weren't high enough clearance? A security risk?

Or I run in circles with certain genetic drifts. Who knows?



I would say that there is still the potential for problems, depending upon how one is defining a stereotypical feminine fashion, as many groups define stereotypical female behavior as a set of behaviors that are themselves inherently toxic and damaging to those who engage in them and those around them. *Choosing to engage in negative behavior doesn't negate that it is negative behavior.

Cattiness is a female stereotype, after all.


Cattiness is not a trait though. Cattiness is being cagey, phrase in a specifically gendered way. There's a difference between, sat, being stereotypically masculine, and being a stereotype which is attributed to males. Though I can't explain it clearer.



The thickness is only relevant to the texture, not the flavor, and mostly makes it easier to chew and to fit more layers and types of meats into one sandvich. :smallconfused:

But there's a point of diminish meant where too thin and you for get as much flavor. Flavor is base on area on tongue. You do get more flavor by adding more of the meat (especially because you are competing with bread and fixins at any point in time, for supremacy of the bite-ratio) up to a point.


Cats are nice. I have a cat. She's smarter than my dog, understanding that ajar doors can be pushed open. Somehow, my dog cannot understand this. :smallsigh:

Dog understands that dog does not have clearance from Alpha or door opening.

Dog will not risk infraction of Chain of command.

Cat opens doors without clearance. Cat is clear security risk. Dog is not willing to emulate cat. I'd car jumps of bridge, Dow will not follow. Dog is good dog.


Seriously though. All domesticated canines are so thoroughly need they will always look to humans for guidance. They also develop behaviors specifically to please their humans.


Cats are indeed awesome ^^

My girl side definitely identifies with cats and would love to be a catgirl, my male side is more of a werewolf person...

Wolf, cat, gimme claws, fur, and some alone time with my filly. I'll be happy.

Hell. Just gimme claws and fur.


My goodness everybody! *A girl goes off an gets sick, and comes back 7 pages into a new thread! :)

Sorry luv :(



My tummy is finally settling down now, and I'll try to be good and keep up again. *Umm... in trying to look at the bright side of every bad situation, I lost over 5 pounds in 3 days. *Yeah. *Not so good, but the weight is gone. *In better news, I was actually able to eat today. *And eat I did. *6 pieces of tekka maki (tuna sushi), fried rice, filet steak, small salad, soup. *Mmm. *So good. *My tummy is grumbling, probably trying to figure out what all this "solid food" nonsense is. *Hehe. *I'll probably pay for overindulging later, but darn if it wasn't nice to rejoin normal people eating normal foods.

Nothing like the stomach flu to (at least temporarily) make you completely uncaring of gender issues in yourself. *Heh. *On the porcelain throne we are all equals, yes?

Hehe. Working on recouping that lost weight I see~?

I envy you. Most times I get stomach flu, I have to strip and lie in the shower. There's no telling where the food will try exfiltration :smalleek:

Your food story made me hungry... XD


With... With bright lights shining into your eyes? :smalleek:

Th better to see the sea by!
Hoist anchor! Away to Nod! By the light of the hair, moon and stars shall we be guided!


Oh, I'm not talking dyes or anything. I'm talking genetic addition, adding the bio-luminescent gene alongside my own code, near the hair genes, so all my hair is bio-luminescent! :3

All of it?

Okay, at first I was thinking funny blue body tinge, but now I'm seeing glowing panties XD

That would be a trip... Realistically, you would need your hair to work like fiber optics, else you'd chance the colored culture dying when you washed it. But...

Actually, no. I have not enough data to surmise. Maybe not? Must look into bioluminescence.

[Heliomance]

Pre-measured on the stick. Also, ounces are both a volume and a weight, and food sometimes goes back and forth. A cup is half a pound. XD

We have (had) fluid ounces, which are 1/20 of a pint, but as the name suggests they were only ever used for liquids. Also, how can a cup possibly be consistently half a pound when different ingredients have different densities?

[Lentrax]

Because it makes it easy for us to tell those of us here in the States who have never in thier entire lives taken one basic ******* science course in high school how to measure things.

Could you imagine if we had to give all sorts of calculations for stuff? McDonalds would go out of business because the people working there can't even do basic math.


On Bioluminesence and Cyberpunk:

I am fairly certain I will do everything in my power, when we are able to have biosculpting done in a day, to create a gang of Posers based around the cast of the Clerks movies.

But I will have nothing to do with them, since I will be too busy playing with my new tail.

Which will probably glow...

[Lea Plath]

SO MUCH THREAD OVERNIGHT @.@ *Shakes many fists*


Anyway, couple of things.

@Kender: Do you think feminism would make transitioning easier then, as society's view of women changes?

@Karen: CYBERPUNK :D I'MMA GONNA HACK YOUR GUN THEN BEAT PEOPLE UP WITH MY ROBOT ARMS! *Shadowruns away!*

Also, I think the latest Rain comic is pretty interesting. http://rain.thecomicseries.com/comics/351/

[Lissou]

A pound isn't always a weight measurement. The pound sterling is a money measurement.

[The Succubus]

Because it makes it easy for us to tell those of us here in the States who have never in thier entire lives taken one basic ******* science course in high school how to measure things.

Could you imagine if we had to give all sorts of calculations for stuff? McDonalds would go out of business because the people working there can't even do basic math.


On Bioluminesence and Cyberpunk:

I am fairly certain I will do everything in my power, when we are able to have biosculpting done in a day, to create a gang of Posers based around the cast of the Clerks movies.

But I will have nothing to do with them, since I will be too busy playing with my new tail.

Which will probably glow...

*imagines each burger in McDonalds being served on a set of scales, to sure that a Quarter Pounder is exactly what it says* :smallbiggrin:

Also, I'd be happy paying a Quarter Pound (25p) for a Quarter Pounder. :smalltongue:

[Mionelle]

May I just ask for some hugs? Stressful days coming.

[Mono Vertigo]

You pesky yankees and brits with your wrong measurement units.
Next, you'll say you don't write the time and dates the same way as us Europeans. Or that you drive on the wrong side of the road. :smallyuk:


@Mionelle: *hugs* Go you!

[Lentrax]

Of course, Mio.

*hugs*

Need to talk?

[Socratov]

ok, t minus 2 hours, 56 minutes and my last exam for this quartile will start. wish me luck :smallcool:


Mio: *hugs*

On metric versus imperial measuring: personally I'd love if everything was in metric since in my experience (and upbringing) it's easier to use (factors of 10 and consistent measures), however, I can understand the people using imperial mesures to be used to them and finding 10 an odd number (forgive me the pun) to use as a base of measuring. IMperial measures however have the added benefit of using 12 as a basis which is a number with quite some perks being divisible by 2, 3, 4, and 6. (and obvioulsy 10 and 12). Besides, imperial mesures for distance have a nice ring to it, miles being easier to say then kilometers. To each his/her own I guess. Me? I'll stay with the practica system of metric measures :smallwink:

[Mionelle]

I wish I had time to talk. :P In fact there's not much to say, just "How come I ***** up so many things" and "Aaaaaa, how is it possible to do so many things in so short period of time"

Socratov: Goood luuuck!

[SiuiS]

We have (had) fluid ounces, which are 1/20 of a pint, but as the name suggests they were only ever used for liquids. Also, how can a cup possibly be consistently half a pound when different ingredients have different densities?

Because an ounce isn't an ounce. One is a weight measure (sixteen to a pound) And one is volume (8 to a cup) and people don't always cotton. "huh, it says 8oz. Steak... Yeah, mr. Butcher, gimme a pound of beef please? I'm making double portions. Now, to get two, 6oz cans of green beans instead of one..."

Mostly I was poking fun at how by mixing the two, silly Americans have come to dilute the difference. Serious cooks use grams.


Because it makes it easy for us to tell those of us here in the States who have never in thier entire lives taken one basic ******* science course in high school how to measure things.

Could you imagine if we had to give all sorts of calculations for stuff? McDonalds would go out of business because the people working there can't even do basic math.[/wuote]

That's not an American trait, except insofar as trusting the government to raise your kids is an American trait. Kids are actually conditioned not to think algebraically.

[QUOTE=Lissou;15031914]A pound isn't always a weight measurement. The pound sterling is a money measurement.

... But Americans don't use pounds sterling?


May I just ask for some hugs? Stressful days coming.

*hugs*


You pesky yankees and brits with your wrong measurement units.
Next, you'll say you don't write the time and dates the same way as us Europeans. Or that you drive on the wrong side of the road. :smallyuk:


@Mionelle: *hugs* Go you!

No, I'm pretty certain of the two of us, I'm the one rising on the, uh... Right side of the road?


ok, t minus 2 hours, 56 minutes and my last exam for this quartile will start. wish me luck :smallcool:


Mio: *hugs*

On metric versus imperial measuring: personally I'd love if everything was in metric since in my experience (and upbringing) it's easier to use (factors of 10 and consistent measures), however, I can understand the people using imperial mesures to be used to them and finding 10 an odd number (forgive me the pun) to use as a base of measuring. IMperial measures however have the added benefit of using 12 as a basis which is a number with quite some perks being divisible by 2, 3, 4, and 6. (and obvioulsy 10 and 12). Besides, imperial mesures for distance have a nice ring to it, miles being easier to say then kilometers. To each his/her own I guess. Me? I'll stay with the practica system of metric measures :smallwink:

12 is a good number, yes.

Mostly it's that it's harder to eyeball cm than an inch. Is what I would say if I met someone who could eyeball inches.

[Partysan]

*hugs Mionelle and any innocent or guilty bystanders*


A nearly complete computer and bits of hardware are lying near me right now. Need to change the motherboard though, has problems with the RAM slots. I know why i usually take ASUS.
That ASRock board was still your recommendation. :smallwink:

Also, yay for being happy. And feeling feminine. And being able to cope with boymode while still being happy.
I actually have both the time and the energy to do other things besides thinking about being trans* or trying to distract me from it at the moment ^_^ I hope that lasts a while.
yay


I agree. It's why I got a male roomie. He can cook okay, but loves it when I cook. He also thinks I'm strange ever since I came out to him, but it's ok. He's open minded enough that I didn't see issue with it.
Here it's me that does almost all the cooking. I love cooking. I might be a guy, but I also think guys that can cook are sexy. So there.

[Lentrax]

I wish I had time to talk. :P In fact there's not much to say, just "How come I ***** up so many things" and "Aaaaaa, how is it possible to do so many things in so short period of time"


Amazing! I usually think the exact same things almost all of the time! Are we twins?

*more hugs*

I'm trying to catch up on this thread, but it goes so fast...

*happy hugs for those that want them*

*fresh rum cake of solace for those that need it*

[Mono Vertigo]

No, I'm pretty certain of the two of us, I'm the one rising on the, uh... Right side of the road?

This calls for a duel, then.
A driving duel.
I shall use my GLaDOS-mobile*. En garde!




*Yes, I am aware I will surely regret someday calling my car GLaDOS.

[SiuiS]

This calls for a duel, then.
A driving duel.
I shall use my GLaDOS-mobile*. En garde!




*Yes, I am aware I will surely regret someday calling my car GLaDOS.

Not that I'm one to turn down duels, but why? Do you deny that you drive on the left?

[noparlpf]

Oh, I'm not talking dyes or anything. I'm talking genetic addition, adding the bio-luminescent gene alongside my own code, near the hair genes, so all my hair is bio-luminescent! :3

Hair is dead, so you might not want bioluminescence. You probably want fluorescence or phosphorescence, both of which rely on re-emitting absorbed energy. I don't think there's any possible mechanism for hair to constantly produce light on its own because it's just dead protein strands with no biochemical activity, so you can't add in a function to produce light when there's no activity at all.
Anyway, if I end up working to genetically engineer blue hair using pigmentation genes from birds like I've half-jokingly suggested I might, I'll look into this too.


Pound is always weight.

I've heard it used as both mass (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pound_%28mass%29) and weight (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pound_%28force%29).


What?

I... What?

But for that you'd have to measure... Across time to account... Variance... And... Convert to... But....



What?

A light-year (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light-year) is a constant unit of distance. One time in high school somebody asked me how big my penis was, so I decided to give them a completely useless answer because it's none of their business. But then I remembered it and use it as a conversion factor.
For reference the average domestic cat is about 8x10^-17 light years long and a light year is about 12.5x10^15 cats long. Now I just need to remember those values...


We have (had) fluid ounces, which are 1/20 of a pint, but as the name suggests they were only ever used for liquids. Also, how can a cup possibly be consistently half a pound when different ingredients have different densities?

I'm wondering that myself.


May I just ask for some hugs? Stressful days coming.

Sure. *hugs* Good luck. You'll be fine.


You pesky yankees and brits with your wrong measurement units.
Next, you'll say you don't write the time and dates the same way as us Europeans. Or that you drive on the wrong side of the road. :smallyuk:

:smalltongue:
I'll admit to driving on the wrong side of the road, but seriously, blame the system, not me. Driving on the right side of the road gets you arrested or ticketed or something. I write dates [day]/[month]/[year] but I'm thinking of switching to the Jewish calendar because Gregorian is too mainstream. And after five years of college science courses I use metric only a bit less often than Imperial and Celsius more often than Fahrenheit.

[Eirala]

I really should look at overclocking mine, it's got a nutty heat sink in it after all :)


Please define "nutty" :smallbiggrin: But yeah, i'd suggest OCing anytime.

I have a Thermalright MR-02 Macho on my i5-2500K, which is running at 4.5GHz.



Excellent! I'll take three and a half.

Do you want a cuddle with that?



ASUS fan as well? Gotta say, I love ASUS. Always have. They just have so much style on top of their function, and being designed for overclocking...

Speaking of, saving up for a G75 with 32Gb RAM, 3.2GHz quad core proc, 3Gb 3D Video card, and 3D screen. Looking at 3-4k for it.

*nods* Weirder dreams, lately. Been feeling better about myself when waking up. Odd... Maybe every night I am slowly re-writing my genetic code to shift female? :P I wish...

Ewww... Creeper...

:zoidberg: I'll take eight!


At least with mainboards i always look for ASUS. I don't care abou the style at all, but they just produce high-quality mainboards while being not too pricey.

Phew, a really high-end laptop. What do you need so much mobile power for?

I don't notice changes every day, but every few days for sure and i feel more feminine. Rewriting genetic code would be awesome, but rewriting the subconscious is nice too :smallsmile:

Eight it is, plus one free of charge. Have fun!

*delivers 9 hugs*



I have very big hopes for those :D

Hmmmmm i'm not sure. As nice as AR can be, there's always a risk with such technology.
I'll just sit back and see what Google delivers with Glass.


May I just ask for some hugs? Stressful days coming.

Sure hun. *gives all the hugs you want*



ok, t minus 2 hours, 56 minutes and my last exam for this quartile will start. wish me luck :smallcool:


Good luck! :smallsmile:


*hugs Mionelle and any innocent or guilty bystanders*

That ASRock board was still your recommendation. :smallwink:

yay

Here it's me that does almost all the cooking. I love cooking. I might be a guy, but I also think guys that can cook are sexy. So there.

*thinks about being innocent or guilty while being hugged*

Well, ASRock is not as high-quality as ASUS but technically it's still a good board. A bit of bad luck that it was delivered broken, but perhaps it's a sign of generally lesser quality.

Yay! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLTZctTG6cE)

I don't know about sexy, but it sure is tasty and useful.

[Socratov]

I wish I had time to talk. :P In fact there's not much to say, just "How come I ***** up so many things" and "Aaaaaa, how is it possible to do so many things in so short period of time"
*hugs*, but then again, screwing up is not that hard.

Socratov: Goood luuuck!
thank you :smallsmile:

Because an ounce isn't an ounce. One is a weight measure (sixteen to a pound) And one is volume (8 to a cup) and people don't always cotton. "huh, it says 8oz. Steak... Yeah, mr. Butcher, gimme a pound of beef please? I'm making double portions. Now, to get two, 6oz cans of green beans instead of one..."

Mostly I was poking fun at how by mixing the two, silly Americans have come to dilute the difference. Serious cooks use grams.

it does help yeah :smalltongue:


Because it makes it easy for us to tell those of us here in the States who have never in thier entire lives taken one basic ******* science course in high school how to measure things.

Could you imagine if we had to give all sorts of calculations for stuff? McDonalds would go out of business because the people working there can't even do basic math.

That's not an American trait, except insofar as trusting the government to raise your kids is an American trait. Kids are actually conditioned not to think algebraically.



... But Americans don't use pounds sterling?



*hugs*



No, I'm pretty certain of the two of us, I'm the one rising on the, uh... Right side of the road?



12 is a good number, yes.

Mostly it's that it's harder to eyeball cm than an inch. Is what I would say if I met someone who could eyeball inches.
Well, I can eyeball cm just fine, wouldn't recognize an inch if it did a naked lambada in front of me :smallbiggrin:

Amazing! I usually think the exact same things almost all of the time! Are we twins?

*more hugs*

I'm trying to catch up on this thread, but it goes so fast...

*happy hugs for those that want them*

*fresh rum cake of solace for those that need it*

hmmmmm.... rum cake *drools*

[Mono Vertigo]

Not that I'm one to turn down duels, but why? Do you deny that you drive on the left?

I drive on the right side of the road.
Which also happens to be the right side of the road.
HAH.
We even have our steering wheels on the right side, too! Which would be the left one.



And I don't even like cars I just watched too much Top Gear

[noparlpf]

Phew, a really high-end laptop. What do you need so much mobile power for?

(Note that I'm not a fan of ASUS anyway.)
Yeah, really. Although, for a job involving lots of travel, maybe a high-powered laptop is better than a cheaper equivalent desktop. Is that it?


I drive on the right side of the road.
Which also happens to be the right side of the road.
HAH.
We even have our steering wheels on the right side, too! Which would be the left one.

And I don't even like cars I just watched too much Top Gear

American cars have the steering wheel on the left, and drive on the right side of the road.

[Lorsa]

*hugs Mionelle*


I wish I had time to talk. :P In fact there's not much to say, just "How come I ***** up so many things" and "Aaaaaa, how is it possible to do so many things in so short period of time"

Amphetamine helps I hear?