Bloodstorm Blade + Cleave?

[cloudjsh7]

Thunderous Throw allows you to treat your ranged attack rolls with thrown weapons as melee attacks.

So if a character kills something with his thrown weapon, is he allowed to gain the benefit of Cleave and throw his weapon again?



If you deal a creature enough damage to make it drop (typically by dropping it to below 0*hit points*or killing it), you get an immediate, extra*melee attack*against another creature within reach. You cannot take a*5-foot step*before making this extra attack. The extra attack is with the same weapon and at the same bonus as the attack that dropped the previous creature. You can use this ability once per*round.


Is he allowed to throw his weapon again because it is treated as a melee attack or is it not allowed because it is considered a "converted" ranged attack?

[Carth]

Possibly. Bloodstorm blades already mess with verisimilitude in so many ways that this isn't that much of a stretch in that regard.

[cloudjsh7]

I would say that it wouldn't due to the fact that Cleave states "you get an immediate, extra melee attack against another creature within reach".

Nowhere in the Bloodstorm Blade class does it state that your reach with a melee weapon increases. So, if you kill a monster and want to throw your weapon at a different monster 30 ft. away... well you couldn't, because that monster is not within the reach of your melee weapon, yes?

[Twilightwyrm]

I would say that it wouldn't due to the fact that Cleave states "you get an immediate, extra melee attack against another creature within reach".

Nowhere in the Bloodstorm Blade class does it state that your reach with a melee weapon increases. So, if you kill a monster and want to throw your weapon at a different monster 30 ft. away... well you couldn't, because that monster is not within the reach of your melee weapon, yes?

But, by that logic you could theoretically take the attack against an adjacent monster that is within your normal reach, so wouldn't the answer still be, technically, "yes"?

[CyberThread]

With bloodstorm treating it as melee, I think you could argue that they are in reach.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I already exploited this, plus a few other tricks, to create a Warblade with Mailman-esque offensive capabilities. Then tacked on Dragonwrought Kobold to get early access to Epic feats to make his thrown range 'line of sight'. At that point, plus the cute little trick that gives you recursive bonus attacks, basically means you clear a battlefield on every turn.

[cloudjsh7]

But, by that logic you could theoretically take the attack against an adjacent monster that is within your normal reach, so wouldn't the answer still be, technically, "yes"?

Technically, yes, if the creature was adjacent. :smallsmile: The question was regarding if Cleave allowed you to throw your weapon again. :smalltongue:

[cloudjsh7]

With bloodstorm treating it as melee, I think you could argue that they are in reach.

Yeah, I can definitely see how that would work.


Thunderous Throw:

As a swift action, you can choose to treat your
ranged attack rolls with thrown weapons as melee attacks
for the rest of your turn.



It still says nothing about increasing the actual reach of your weapon though. I assume this is another dreadful RAI vs RAW.

P.S. - Thanks for all the replies, folks. Been beating my brain around on this one for quite awhile. =P

[CyberThread]

ask your DM , and show her/him this thread, you may be bringing something to the table, that may be to powerful, or only should be allowed to take the spotlight every now and then. You have a huge problem with this build of stealing everyones thunder, and making it no fun for other players.

[cloudjsh7]

Lol. I actually am the DM. This was also a campaign that I ran back in 2011. We're starting up the sequel next week and switched to Pathfinder (which, obviously doesn't have the Bloodstorm Blade).

But I'm sure that character concept will come up again during character creation just for kicks and laughs, and I thought it would be good to at least have an answer if they ask why I think we didn't play that class up to rules standards "back in the day". =P

I'm ruling it as my previous posts above, but I did want to get some Giants kickin' it in the Playground thoughts on it just to see what other people thought. :smallsmile:

[Phelix-Mu]

*air guitar music riffing*

HULKING HURLER BLOODSTORM BLADE!!

So, right, from a game balance perspective, the answer should probably be a polite "No."

The main RAW issue has been identified properly. "Reach" in the definition of Cleave is unaltered in Bloodstorm Blade, as far as I can tell, and as the thrown weapon still has a melee reach, the cleave attack must be onto someone within reach.

I would have thought that Bloodstorm Blade dealt with this kind of thing directly (as this is hardly a niche case), but apparently the book that ignores ranged mundanes also tried hard to ignore them in the prc designed for ranged attacks. Alas.:smalleek: