Doctor Who thread IV: "Would you like a jelly baby?" [SPOILERS]

[Thufir]

For the discussion of Doctor Who (http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/dw).

First thread. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195025)
Second thread. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=212965)
Third thread. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=244348)

Obviously the primary topic of discussion is the current series (One episode into the second half of series 7 as of this post), but discussion of past series, both of Nu Who and Classic Who is also a thing which happens quite a bit.

Current archive of reviews by regular thread-posters

Dr. Simon's Highlights of Each Season

Classic Who (Doctors One to Eight)

First Doctor

Season One (1963-1964) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11608367&postcount=1406)
Season Two (1964-1965) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11753964&postcount=89)
Season Three (1965-1966) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11798983&postcount=239)
Season Four (1966-1967) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11831287&postcount=355)

Second Doctor

Season Four (1966-1967) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11831287&postcount=355)
Season Five (1967-1968) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11895071&postcount=510)
Season Six (1968-1969) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11936222&postcount=594)

Third Doctor

Season Seven (1970) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12005725&postcount=793)
Season Eight (1971) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12057505&postcount=835)
Season Nine (1972) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12101112&postcount=837)
Season Ten (1972-1973) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12200809&postcount=861)
Season Eleven (1973-1974) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12265299&postcount=934)

Fourth Doctor

Season Twelve (1974-1975) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12337428&postcount=952)
Season Thirteen (1975-1976) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12473294&postcount=1084)
Season Fourteen (1976-1977) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12506440&postcount=1130)
Season Fifteen (1977-1978) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12539851&postcount=1209)
Season Sixteen (1978-1979) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12639432&postcount=1232)
Season Seventeen (1979-1980) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12681401&postcount=1233)
Season Eighteen (1980-1981) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12754705&postcount=1235)

Fifth Doctor

Season Nineteen (1981-1982) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12798671&postcount=1236)
Season Twenty (1983) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12853709&postcount=1282)
Season Twenty One (1984) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12881776&postcount=1288)

Sixth Doctor

Season Twenty Two (1985) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12920949&postcount=1314)
Season Twenty Three (1986) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12959616&postcount=1334)

Seventh Doctor

Season Twenty Four (1987) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12998906&postcount=1357)
Season Twenty Five (1988) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13078221&postcount=1406)
Season Twenty Six (1989) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13116901&postcount=1409)

Eighth Doctor

TV Movie (1996) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13153060&postcount=1412)


New Series (Doctors Nine to Eleven)

Ninth Doctor

Series One (2005) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13226813&postcount=1452)

Tenth Doctor

Series 2 (2006) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13263518&postcount=1458)
Series 3 (2007) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13300637&postcount=7)
Series 4 & Specials (2008-2010) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13351539&postcount=28)

Eleventh Doctor

Series 5 (2010) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13377076&postcount=36)



Koorly's Doctor Who Review Archive:

Classic Who
Second Doctor
Season 5
1.
2.
3.
4.
5. 'The Web of Fear' 1 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16338780&postcount=1253)/6 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16338787&postcount=1254)
6.
7.
Season 6
1:
2:
3: 'The Invasion' 1/8 (“http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12941528&postcount=1323”), 2/8 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12979300&postcount=1346), 3/8 part one (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13016280&postcount=1366), part two (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13016287&postcount=1367), 4/8 part one (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13031121&postcount=1397), part two (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13031134&postcount=1398), 5/8 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13156488&postcount=1421), 6/8 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13228620&postcount=1453), 7/8 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13315800&postcount=15), 8/8 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13392795&postcount=44)
4:
5:
6:
7:
Fourth Doctor
Series 12
1:
2:
3:
4: 'Genesis of the Daleks' 1/6 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11330063&postcount=1267), 2/6 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11520791&postcount=1397), 3/6 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14459211&postcount=1055), 4/6, 5/6, 6/6
5:
Sixth Doctor
Series 22
4: ‘The Two Doctors’ 1/3 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15023167&postcount=3), 2/3 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15023198&postcount=4), 3/3 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16239360&postcount=1124)
Seventh Doctor
Series 25
1: 'Remembrance of the Daleks' 1/4 part 1 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13631644&postcount=85), part 2 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13631651&postcount=86), 2/4, 3/4, 4/4
2:
3:
4:
Nu Who

Season 1 - retrospective
Brief Whole Series Retrospective (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11066304&postcount=606)
1: 'Rose' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13411944&postcount=49)
2: 'The End of the World' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13411944&postcount=49)
3: 'The Unquiet Dead' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13411944&postcount=49)
4: 'Aliens of London' (1/2)
5: 'World War III' (2/2)
6: 'Dalek'
7: 'The Long Game'
8: 'Father's Day'
9: 'The Empty Child' (1/2)
10: 'The Doctor Dances' (2/2)
11: 'Boom Town'
12: 'Bad Wolf' (1/2)
13: 'The Parting of the Ways' (2/2)

Christmas Episode: 'The Christmas Invasion'
Season 2 - retrospective
Brief Whole Series Retrospective (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11066304&postcount=606)
1: 'New Earth'
2: 'Tooth and Claw'
3: 'School Reunion'
4: 'The Girl in the Fireplace'
5: 'Rise of the Cybermen' (1/2)
6: 'The Age of Steel' (2/2)
7: 'The Idiot's Lantern'
8: 'The Impossible Planet' (1/2)
9: 'The Satan Planet' (2/2)
10: 'Love and Monsters'
11: 'Fear Her'
12: 'Army of Ghosts' (1/2)
13: 'Doomsday' (2/2) GOODBYE ROSE!
Charity Special: 'Doctor Who: Children in Need'
Christmas Episode: 'The Runaway Bride'
Season 3 - blind bar Moffat
1: 'Smith and Jones'
2: 'The Shakespeare Code' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11088119&postcount=714)
3: 'Gridlock' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11094867&postcount=747)
4: 'Daleks in Manhattan' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11095680&postcount=751) (1/2)
5: 'Evolution of the Daleks' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11103504&postcount=771) (2/2)
6: 'The Lazarus Experiment' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11109832&postcount=789)
7: '42' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11115909&postcount=816)
8: 'Human Nature' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11124347&postcount=836) (1/2)
9: 'The Family of Blood' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11153986&postcount=977) (2/2)
10: 'Blink' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11330063&postcount=1267)
11: 'Utopia' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11183578&postcount=1079) (1/3)
12: 'The Sound of the Drums' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11203030&postcount=1111) (2/3)
13: 'The Last of the Time Lords' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11231084&postcount=1156) (3/3)
Children in Need 2007 episode: 'Time Crash' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11242571&postcount=1202)
2007 Christmas Episode: 'Voyage of the Damned' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11286020&postcount=1252)

Bits and Bobs
Retrospective - to be written later
Why I Do Not Like Martha/Ten (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11129436&postcount=856) (This was written between my write ups of ep. 8 and ep 9)
Season Four blind bar Moffat
1: 'Partners in Crime' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11474202&postcount=1313)
2: 'The Fires of Pompeii' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11495165&postcount=1363)
3: 'Planet of the Ood' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11711998&postcount=1469)
4: 'The Sontaran Stratagem' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11732305&postcount=50) (1/2)
5: ‘The Poison Sky‘ (“http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11748813&postcount=75“) (2/2)
6: ‘The Doctor‘s (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11783480&postcount=162) Daughter‘ (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11783487&postcount=163) Two part review.
7: 'The Unicorn and the Wasp'
8: 'Silence in the Library' (1/2)
9: 'Forest of the Dead' (2/2)
10: 'Midnight'
11: 'Turn Left' (1/3)
12: 'The Stolen Earth' (2/3)
13: 'Journey's End' (3/3)

The Specials]
1: 'The Next Doctor'
2: 'Planet of the Dead'
3: 'The Waters of Mars'
4: 'The End of Time' (1/2)
5: 'The End of Time' (2/2)

Season 5 - blind bar Moffat's Angels
1: 'The Eleventh Hour' (including 'Meanwhile in the TARDIS 1')
2: 'The Beast Below'
3: 'Victory of the Daleks'
4: 'The Time of the Angels' (1/2)
5: 'Flesh and Stone' (2/2) (including 'Meanwhile in the TARDIS 2')
6: 'The Vampires of Venice'
7: 'Amy's Choice'
8: 'The Hungry Earth' (1/2)
9: 'Cold Blood' (2/2)
10: 'Vincent and the Doctor'
11: 'The Lodger' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11910590&postcount=531) (bar the angels this was the first episode I saw)
12: 'The Pandorica Opens' (1/2)
13: 'The Big Bang' (2/2)
Christmas Episode: 'A Christmas Carol'

Season 6
To to things this series was split in two, as such eps. 8 - Christmas episode will be liveblogged, and the first seven will be written with me having seen them before.
1: 'The Impossible Astronaut' (1/2)
2: 'Day of the Moon' (2/2)
3: 'The Curse of the Black Spot'
4: 'The Doctor's Wife' HELL YEAH!
5: 'The Rebel Flesh' (1/2)
6: 'The Almost People' (2/2)
7: 'A Good Man Goes to War'
8: 'Let's Kill Hitler' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11730422&postcount=36)
9: 'Night Terrors' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11775289&postcount=126)
10: 'The Girl Who Waited' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11865120&postcount=385)
11: 'The God Complex' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11865605&postcount=391)
12: 'Closing Time' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11945529&postcount=601)
13: 'The Wedding of River Song' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13825610&postcount=206)

Red Nose Day Specials: 'Space'/'Time'
2011 Christmas Special: 'The Doctor, The Widow and the Wardrobe' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12430141&postcount=1036)

Season 7
Liveblogged unless otherwise mentioned.
1: 'Asylum of the Daleks' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13825610&postcount=206)
2: 'Dinosaurs On A Spaceship' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13864601&postcount=315)
3: 'A Town Called Mercy' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13903100&postcount=416)
4: 'The Power of Three (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14428020&postcount=953)'
5: 'The Muppets Take Manhattan (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14430271&postcount=961)'
'P.S. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14430271&postcount=961)'
'The Great Detective (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14430279&postcount=962)' CiN minisode
'Vastra Investigates (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14430279&postcount=962)' minisode
2012 Christmas episode: 'The Snowman (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14430279&postcount=962)'
6: 'The Bells of St. John' (and 'Prequel (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16239360&postcount=1124)')
7: 'The Rings of Akhaten'
8: 'Cold War'
9: 'Hide'
10: 'Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS'
11: 'The Crimson Horror'
12: 'Nightmare in Silver'
13: 'The Name of the Doctor'

Odds and Sods
Things that don't really fit anywhere.

'Good As Gold' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13312756&postcount=12) Second Blue Peter scriptwriting competition for Doctor Who
The Lost Episodes: A Very Brief History (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16338780&postcount=1253)

An Interesting Question Via 'Fan Mail' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14490605&postcount=1091)


Sunken Valley's Reviews

Series 6B
Let's Kill Hitler (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11731087&postcount=43)
Night Terrors (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11775642&postcount=129)
The Girl Who Waited (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11821163&postcount=316)
God Complex (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11868968&postcount=418)
Closing Time (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11909000&postcount=516)
The Wedding of River Song (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11953207&postcount=656)
The Doctor, the Widow and the Wardrobe (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12432053&postcount=1050)
Good As Gold (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13687334&postcount=125)

Series 7
Asylum of The Daleks (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13825449&postcount=194)
Dinosaurs on a Spaceship (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13864480&postcount=311)
Power Of Three (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13939693&postcount=525)
Angels Take Manhattan (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13978370&postcount=604)
The Snowmen (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14429890&postcount=959)


Friv's Reviews

SEASON ONE

Spearhead From Space:
Part One (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13843587&postcount=255)
Part Two (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13874807&postcount=375)
Part Three (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13969392&postcount=583)
Part Four (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13990432&postcount=660)

The Silurians:
Part One (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14480891&postcount=1086)
Parts Two And Three (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14514866&postcount=1099)
Part Four (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14612260&postcount=1112)
Parts Five And Six (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14948962&postcount=1272)
Part Seven (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14994922&postcount=1376)

Inferno:
Part One (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15351018&postcount=582)
Part Two (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15397487&postcount=669)



SEASON TWO

Inferno:
Part Three (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16202187&postcount=1109)
Part Four (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16246570&postcount=1128)
Part Five (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16293330&postcount=1166)
Part Six (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16316488&postcount=1241)
Part Seven (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16351633&postcount=1267)




Finally, to quote River Song: "Spoilers." Obviously this thread is for discussing the series, so spoilers will abound. That said, I would ask that discussion of each new episode be spoilered for at least a few hours - maybe as much as a day - after the English broadcast, to allow for Americans being in a different time zone and people lagging a bit behind.
If you're aware of people in-thread who haven't seen certain episodes further back than what's currently being broadcast, you may wish to spoiler things for their benefit (e.g. we refer to Curly-spoilers as 'Curlers' since she's a prolific reviewer), but such things are left to your discretion and those people should be aware they risk spoilers by reading this thread.

If anyone thinks there should be any additional resources or whatever in this OP, suggest them in-thread (I'm also going to have a think and may add some stuff myself). Discussion may now resume!

[Androgeus]

If you give me a little while, I should be able to send you an updated and slightly cleaned up archive.

Edit:I should make a proper entrance (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Xf0rVBDxNw) into this thread.

[CurlyKitGirl]

Going to have to split this. You'll see why, so please hold off posting until I've made the second post thanks.

Koorly's Doctor Who Review Archive:
Classic Who
Second Doctor
Series 6
1.
2.
3. 'The Invasion' 1/8 (“http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12941528&postcount=1323”), 2/8 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12979300&postcount=1346), 3/8 part one (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13016280&postcount=1366), part two (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13016287&postcount=1367), 4/8 part one (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13031121&postcount=1397), part two (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13031134&postcount=1398), 5/8 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13156488&postcount=1421), 6/8 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13228620&postcount=1453), 7/8 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13315800&postcount=15), 8/8 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13392795&postcount=44)
4.
5.
6.
7.
Fourth Doctor
Series 12
1.
2.
3.
4. 'Genesis of the Daleks' 1/6 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11330063&postcount=1267), 2/6 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11520791&postcount=1397), 3/6 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14459211&postcount=1055), 4/6, 5/6, 6/6
5.
Sixth Doctor
Series 22
4. ‘The Two Doctors’ 1/3 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15023167&postcount=3), 2/3 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15023198&postcount=4), 3/3
Seventh Doctor
Series 25
1. 'Remembrance of the Daleks' 1/4 part 1 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13631644&postcount=85), part 2 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13631651&postcount=86), 2/4, 3/4, 4/4
2.
3.
4.
Nu Who

Season 1 - retrospective
Brief Whole Series Retrospective (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11066304&postcount=606)
Ep. 1 'Rose' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13411944&postcount=49)
Ep. 2 'The End of the World' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13411944&postcount=49)
Ep. 3 'The Unquiet Dead' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13411944&postcount=49)
Ep. 4: 'Aliens of London' (1/2)
Ep. 5: 'World War III' (2/2)
Ep. 6: 'Dalek'
Ep. 7: 'The Long Game'
Ep. 8: 'Father's Day'
Ep. 9: 'The Empty Child' (1/2)
Ep. 10: 'The Doctor Dances' (2/2)
Ep. 11: 'Boom Town'
Ep. 12: 'Bad Wolf' (1/2)
Ep. 13: 'The Parting of the Ways' (2/2)

Christmas Episode: 'The Christmas Invasion'
Season 2 - retrospective
Brief Whole Series Retrospective (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11066304&postcount=606)
Ep. 1: 'New Earth'
Ep. 2: 'Tooth and Claw'
Ep. 3: 'School Reunion'
Ep. 4: 'The Girl in the Fireplace'
Ep. 5: 'Rise of the Cybermen' (1/2)
Ep. 6: 'The Age of Steel' (2/2)
Ep. 7: 'The Idiot's Lantern'
Ep. 8: 'The Impossible Planet' (1/2)
Ep. 9: 'The Satan Planet' (2/2)
Ep. 10: 'Love and Monsters'
Ep. 11: 'Fear Her'
Ep. 12: 'Army of Ghosts' (1/2)
Ep. 13: 'Doomsday' (2/2) GOODBYE ROSE!
Charity Special: 'Doctor Who: Children in Need'
Christmas Episode: 'The Runaway Bride'
Season 3 - blind bar Moffat
Ep. 1: 'Smith and Jones'
Ep. 2: 'The Shakespeare Code' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11088119&postcount=714)
Ep. 3: 'Gridlock' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11094867&postcount=747)
Ep. 4: 'Daleks in Manhattan' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11095680&postcount=751) (1/2)
Ep. 5: 'Evolution of the Daleks' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11103504&postcount=771) (2/2)
Ep. 6: 'The Lazarus Experiment' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11109832&postcount=789)
Ep. 7: '42' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11115909&postcount=816)
Ep. 8: 'Human Nature' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11124347&postcount=836) (1/2)
Ep. 9: 'The Family of Blood' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11153986&postcount=977) (2/2)
Ep. 10: 'Blink' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11330063&postcount=1267)
Ep. 11: 'Utopia' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11183578&postcount=1079) (1/3)
Ep. 12: 'The Sound of the Drums' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11203030&postcount=1111) (2/3)
Ep. 13: 'The Last of the Time Lords' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11231084&postcount=1156) (3/3)
Children in Need 2007 episode: 'Time Crash' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11242571&postcount=1202)
2007 Christmas Episode: 'Voyage of the Damned' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11286020&postcount=1252)

Bits and Bobs
Retrospective - to be written later
Why I Do Not Like Martha/Ten (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11129436&postcount=856) (This was written between my write ups of ep. 8 and ep 9)
Season Four blind bar Moffat
Ep. 1: 'Partners in Crime' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11474202&postcount=1313)
Ep. 2: 'The Fires of Pompeii' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11495165&postcount=1363)
Ep. 3: 'Planet of the Ood' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11711998&postcount=1469)
Ep. 4: 'The Sontaran Stratagem' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11732305&postcount=50) (1/2)
Ep. 5: ‘The Poison Sky‘ (“http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11748813&postcount=75“) (2/2)
Ep. 6: ‘The Doctor‘s (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11783480&postcount=162) Daughter‘ (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11783487&postcount=163) Two part review.
Ep. 7: 'The Unicorn and the Wasp'
Ep. 8: 'Silence in the Library' (1/2)
Ep. 9: 'Forest of the Dead' (2/2)
Ep. 10: 'Midnight'
Ep. 11: 'Turn Left' (1/3)
Ep. 12: 'The Stolen Earth' (2/3)
Ep. 13: 'Journey's End' (3/3)

The Specials]
1: 'The Next Doctor'
2: 'Planet of the Dead'
3: 'The Waters of Mars'
4: 'The End of Time' (1/2)
5: 'The End of Time' (2/2)

Season 5 - blind bar Moffat's Angels
Ep. 1: 'The Eleventh Hour' (including 'Meanwhile in the TARDIS 1')
Ep. 2: 'The Beast Below'
Ep. 3: 'Victory of the Daleks'
Ep. 4: 'The Time of the Angels' (1/2)
Ep. 5: 'Flesh and Stone' (2/2) (including 'Meanwhile in the TARDIS 2')
Ep. 6: 'The Vampires of Venice'
Ep. 7: 'Amy's Choice'
Ep. 8: 'The Hungry Earth' (1/2)
Ep. 9: 'Cold Blood' (2/2)
Ep. 10: 'Vincent and the Doctor'
Ep. 11: 'The Lodger' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11910590&postcount=531) (bar the angels this was the first episode I saw)
Ep. 12: 'The Pandorica Opens' (1/2)
Ep. 13: 'The Big Bang' (2/2)
Christmas Episode: 'A Christmas Carol'

Season 6
To to things this series was split in two, as such eps. 8 - Christmas episode will be liveblogged, and the first seven will be written with me having seen them before.
Ep. 1: 'The Impossible Astronaut' (1/2)
Ep. 2: 'Day of the Moon' (2/2)
Ep. 3: 'The Curse of the Black Spot'
Ep. 4: 'The Doctor's Wife' HELL YEAH!
Ep. 5: 'The Rebel Flesh' (1/2)
Ep. 6: 'The Almost People' (2/2)
Ep. 7: 'A Good Man Goes to War'
Ep. 8: 'Let's Kill Hitler' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11730422&postcount=36)
Ep. 9: 'Night Terrors' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11775289&postcount=126)
Ep. 10: 'The Girl Who Waited' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11865120&postcount=385)
Ep. 11: 'The God Complex' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11865605&postcount=391)
Ep. 12: 'Closing Time' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11945529&postcount=601)
Ep. 13: 'The Wedding of River Song' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13825610&postcount=206)

Red Nose Day Specials: 'Space'/'Time'
2011 Christmas Special: 'The Doctor, The Widow and the Wardrobe' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12430141&postcount=1036)

Season 7
Liveblogged unless otherwise mentioned.

Ep. 1: 'Asylum of the Daleks' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13825610&postcount=206)
Ep. 2: 'Dinosaurs On A Spaceship' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13864601&postcount=315)
Ep. 3: 'A Town Called Mercy' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13903100&postcount=416)
Ep. 4: 'The Power of Three (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14428020&postcount=953)'
Ep. 5: 'The Muppets Take Manhattan (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14430271&postcount=961)'
'P.S. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14430271&postcount=961)'
'The Great Detective (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14430279&postcount=962)' CiN minisode
'Vastra Investigates (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14430279&postcount=962)' minisode
2012 Christmas episode: 'The Snowman (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14430279&postcount=962)'


Odds and Sods
Things that don't really fit anywhere.

'Good As Gold' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13312756&postcount=12) Second Blue Peter scriptwriting competition for Doctor Who


And now, to boldly go where many have gone before. [*cue TOS theme (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdjL8WXjlGI) (Such a awesome introduction)*]

'The Two Doctors' part 1/3 (season 22, serial 4)
This is a Train Chain Review. I am on the train, with no internet, and in four and a half hours I’ve read through roughly two hundred and fifty thousand words of story. So, having prepared in advance I brought Doctor Who DVDs with me for such an occasion. And then at the mini-meetup I bought more. So in a blind grab I picked this.

Honestly, I’m kind of looking forward to it! It’s an anniversary multi-Doctor story with Two and Jamie in it! I know nothing about Six or what Companion he has, but you know, people say Six’s reign wasn’t very good, but in the special this is awesome way. Sometimes. Also, the person across the aisle from me is watching ‘The Bells of St. John’, which, I must admit, I did see on Saturday. So.

The idea behind a Chain Train Review is thus: I have no recourse to research, only what is on the DVD case and the knowledge in my own head. No internet also means no screenshots, although I may take them and just upload them when I get home. Think of it as a liveblog, but without the really long introduction at the beginning. This serial is also only two hours long, so it may just run as one full length thingy, I don’t know, Im making it up as I go, but I have a little over three hours until I get home.

Before we actually push play let’s glean what little info I can from the DVD:
1) There’s a socking great Sontaran dead centre of the cover art, so I may hazard a guess at the villains being Sontarans.
2) It stars Patrick Troughton and Colin Baker as the Doctor - Two and Six respectively. Additionally: the back tells me my beloved Jamie and this chick called Peri are our Companions. Peri looks a bit like a hippie on the mini-bio in the fold-out sheet thing. Jamie looks adorable.
3) There’s some chick called Jacqueline in it who was an evil person in Blake’s 7, so she’s probably evil here too because when you cast as the villain in one sci-fi show, you’re eternally contracted to be a sci-fi villain. Unless you’re Simon Pegg.
4) Peter Moffatt (possible relation?) is the director. I, however, recognise him, not from his Doctor Who work, but from the fact that he directed All Creatures Great and Small which was an amazing TV show (coincidentally starring Peter Davison) and probably no on outside of Britain has ever heard of that show before, which is a shame.
5) JNT was producer. This guy’s famous for killing Doctor Who, so this may mean the story isn’t good even though my Two and Jamie are in it. Then again: Robert Holmes wrote it. Robert Holmes is a god amongst Doctor Who writers who wrote (or script edited)many classic stories.
6) This DVD contains a funny aneurysm moment in the form of an entire special feature: ‘A Fix With Sontarans’ involving Jimmy Saville. I believe we can all say that the less said about this better.
7) To counteract that: the back rather amusingly shows a Sontaran covered in silly string. Or snot.

On with the show!

Christ, Six’s theme is jarring. And could someone remind me why children are permitted to travel on trains again. It’s mostly the visuals with the creepy stalker smile; the music’s quite good actually.

Oh Jamie and Two! And it’s even in black and white and look at the kilt. They’re admiring a doodad on the - okay colour. That was a nice transition, even if it was accompanied by that magic twinkly whoosh noise. My Patrick Troughton has gone grey.

J: “Look at the size of that one Doctor.”

D2: “Yes, that is a big one.” And people wonder why I ship. Colour Jamie is in colour and also disconcerting. Imagine how bad it must have been for the people who grew up with black-and-white Two.

Who’s Victoria? What’s graphology? Is this an in-joke?

And a teleport control magically appeared on the TARDIS console. Can Time Lords do that? Two says so. But. I. What. Is this a thing that happened? Time Lords makign Two do things I mean, I know they asked/made Four do things. D2: “You’d think I’d never flown a TARDIS solo.” This line is much funnier when you realise that Nine through Eleven have been rather poor drivers. Pilots. Captains. Our Retro Boys are going to sneak in because D2: “Think of the commotion Jamie! […] They’ll all want my autograph.” Oh smug Two is awesome Two.

Who’s Dastari? I dunno. What’s “conterminous time”. I don’t think conterminous is a real word.

D2: “Oh, Jamie, don’t go wandering off. Stay with me.”

J: “Do I ever?” Wander off? Yes. Stay? Shrugs. Also, your sarcasm is adorable. Oh, and FORESHADOWING: that recall disc is important.

Dastari looks like a very camp pirate. And he’s a chef? Okay, he’s Shockeye. And a chef person. And an androgum. They greatly respect Time Lords it seems.

And humans are called Telluriums. uhhhhh wut. Sorry? wat

Okay, I’ll transcribe this exchange for you. S: “Is it [Jamie] a gift for Dastari?”

D2: “A gift?!”

S: “Such a soft white skin, whispering of a tender succulence! Dastari will not appreciate its qualities you know. He has no sensual refinement. Let me buy it from you.” Jamie’s face through this is as you can expect: w.t.f. mate.

D2:”My Companion is not for sale!”

And throughout this scene the pirate-chef is fondling his knife in a rather suggestive fashion. And I know that the pirate-chef wants to cook Jamie (no) but. DID YOU READ THAT. That entire sequence is suggestive of sex slavery. The softness of the skin, the sensual nature necessary to appreciate such a tender ware? It sincerely doesn’t help that the pirate is all in pink and gold, with flowers on his cap and fluffy peach eyebrows (Still not as camp as Captain Shakespeare though). And when you combine it with the earlier ‘look at the size of that’ moment. Well. It all looks rather suspect. Annnnd, ironically, the slave trade is another type of meat market, so there. This is deliberate. It amuses me.

And then you remember that special feature . . .

Frankly, I’d rather there’s some pseudo-cannibalism (insomuch as that Dastari probably isn’t human, but likely humanoid) than sex slavery. I wish I could say that was a new sentence for me, but it’s not.

And then Two brandishes a cucumber (phallic symbol, phallic symbol (I feel so dirty for quoting that remake)) and the pirate while saying “You get on with your butchery!” But as Jamie sidles past the pirate stares after him with either a longing look or an obsessed look. And - oh gods what. S: “Ooooh . . . I can just taste that flesh!” before burying his knife into some meat. A chicken specifically.

This is why Doctor Who is some of the most homoerotic stuff to air on British telelvision; though probably you could claim it was showing homosexuality (male and female) in a negative light because of the stereotypical and creepy way the pirate was acting.

But Lazy Review isn’t being lazy.

Cut to generic grey corridors. And someone running. Jamie got lost. And was creeped out by him. No wonder. Also Androgums are all servants here.

The TARDIS went bye bye. Oh dear.

And then there’s some lady in silver robes (Jacqueline Pierce?) who wanted the TARDIS to give to some allies, but personally she couldn’t care less as she has the Kartz-Reimer module. So it’s better than the Type 40 of our TARDIS? Or not. It’s a thing the Time Lords want maybe.

Can’t get over the pirate-chef’s eyebrows. He clearly dyed them. Who’s Stike? Calgesic? Is that a drug?

Is Stike a Sontaran?!

Okay, she’s not Dastari. And the pirate-chef does truly enjoy cooking and serving people. Also, whatever Calgesic is, I think it’s a poison because there was evil gloating.

Oh my. Eighties shades and a metallic colour jumpsuit! I mean, you know how stylists are shown on TV? Imagine something like that. And the Doctor knew Dastari because he was exiled. And became a freelance dude for them.

Hehe. The Time Lord’s policy “has been one of strict neutrality”. The Daleks would like to disagree with you there. And your later incarnations. Like Ten. He near wet himself at the prospect of finding more Time Lords. Although Eleven was happy to find the Corsair so.

(Oh right. This place. Whatever. Is a science for science sake place. I imagine it’s like Aperture, but saner.) Third Zone government?

Okay . . . The Doctor was unofficially sent to Aperture to do science with the scientists. By stopping science. That Kartz-Reimer thing is a time travel thing. So hello lampshade about hypocrisy!

Ah, Silver Robes is called Chessy. The Doctor seems a bit concerned because he refuses the offer of refreshments saying “One meal a day is sufficient.” Pouty Jamie is cute.

Okay, she’s an Androgum too. Technoligically augmented.

Dear Doctor Who (and Dastari),
You are aware that the Eugenics Wars of the Trek verse arose because of augmented beings no? And that, more generally, things that are rated “mega genius” and have been ‘designed’/’created’ by others tend to rebel against their masters. Especially when said creation is a living, thinking being who is your servant.

Yours,
A Nerd.

This Chess chick has been augmented nine times, and the Doctor really doesn’t seem to like that. Androgum energy? What’s an Androgum’s nature? D2: “Give a monkey control of its world and it’ll fill it full of bananas.” Ehm. That’s a little . . . Er. I thought the Doctor was all for advancing civilisations and species if it was good for them. And if these Androgums are basically indentured servants - a species of slaves . . . Or what. Is this going to be like Feet of Clay all over again?

My, the soil is ridiculously red around . . . Wherever my trains travelling through.

Dastari too, wonders why the Doctor’s against his work (I think if the person is willing, and the procedure is reasonably safe it’s fine. Ish.), but then “Doctor, our races have become tired and effete.” Admittedly, the two men who aren’t Our Boys look very camp. “Our seed is thin.” Seed. Snerk. “We must hand the baton of progress to others. If I can raise the Androgums to a higher plane of consciousness [no offence mate, but they are sentient creatures, just because they’re not bred to be geniuses doesn’t mean you can treat them like a lower species] there’s no limit to what that boiling energy could do.”

why do you keep talking about energy?! What energy! You do realise with all the sex/homoerotic talk going on all I can think is that the Androgums must be excellent in bad and have marvellous stamina!

Why is it stupid to augment someone smarter? Loving how Jamie’s standing in the background all po-faced, arms crossed and nodding,

There’s a dude looking at circles on a screen. The dude looks very ill. And then there are balls! Three spinning balls. And male!Majel kindly tells us they are Sontaran battle ships and their intent is hostile. Must be Strike.

And yes, Chess just turned off the human. And let the Sontarans in.

Hello pretty girl in a bikini suit. Six doesn’t like . . .Peri? Peri. Chucking rocks to make sure she doesn’t kill herself diving. He sounds really prissy, but maybe he just really likes fish.

What is your accent Peri? American? Because no.

RASSILON!

The Doctor is fishing. And referencing Rassilon. The quotation of Rassilon.

Peri has big boobs, a bare midriff and possibly fake tan on her legs. And they’re talking about fish. Admittedly, lumberjack for dinner sounds so tempting. And here I am eating some prohibitively expensive -

I bet it’s a boot.

Okay, it’s tiny. And quite ugly.

- tuna sandwich. You know, I quite like six. Bit cranky, but pretty nice. Peri though, can die in a fire. It’s the accent! Also her top is horrible.

Awkward cut to Aperture and there’s technoTreknobabble about how this Time Lord module is very dangerous. But Dastari points out the Time Lords probably don’t want anyone else to have time travel tech.

The Daleks have time travel tech. And Captain Jack Harkness/River Song/others had the little wrist watch of time travel, safe to say they failed. Still, Dastari has a point, and given the awkward way the Doctor shifts when Dastari points how the TARDIS was removed from Arperture - to stop Those Two Guys from looking at it, he’s probably right.

Jamie, get your hands off your crotch/sporran. Plot is happening, and eye candy is distracting from the two old guys bickering about letting scientist do science freely. Insert a political thing about politicians seizing independent researchers work for their own benefit here.

Basically, both guys have good points: the Doctor’s right about the space-time space thing being important to maintain, but Dastari’s right about the Time Lords acting unethically and for their own benefit too.

Oh Jamie. “I’m just admiring your diplomatic skills, Doctor.” Don’t you worry about your hairy legs, you’re lovely just the way you are. Also, Dastari’s dead now. And Jamie doesn’t speak in an “appalling mongrel dialect”! Don’t be mean.

J: “I mean he’s gone to sleep.”

D”: “He’s no’ asleep - “ Jamie’s points and does the ‘ah!’ face as the Doctor glances at him. “He’s not asleep Jamie.” Because he’s dead. Fine, just drugged.

Also gunfire. And the Doctor tells Jamie to run from the Sontaran in the doorway.

Now we’re will Six. That coat really is something. I think the Doctor’s on a fishing holiday.

God Peri, cover yourself up.

D6: “I haven’t felt at all myself lately.” Is it because the backstage antics have meant that your character’s been warped in entirely the wrong direction? “This rege . . . Regen . . “ Then he falls flat on his face and starts sneeze/choking.

Probably because the Sontarans are gassing Two to death. Sad face. It’s heartbreaking. And poor Jamie’s trying to get in and save him!

Shame the pirate-chef comes around the corner. “Oooh. Quiet boy. Easy! Shockeye will not hurt you.” As he backs Jamie into a corner. Again: pervy. And all Jamie has to defend himself is a knife. “Oooh, we are wild aren’t we?”

Okay, the pirate-chef and Chess are leaving to a ship. And the pirate-chef is still obsessed with cooking. Anyway, these two don’t care where they’re going, so Shockeye wants to go to Earth. “I have a desire to taste one of these beasts. The meat looks so white and roundsomely layered on the bone - a sure sign of a tasty animal.”

C: “YOu think of nothing but your stomach, Shockeye.” Or another organ.

S: “The gratification of pleasure is the sole motive of action.” Yeah, going to start ignoring everything that comes out of your mouth because you sound like you’d rape and eat someone. Hopefully in that order. But you’re too colourful to be a Reaver, so that’s something positive. “Is that not our law.”

C: “I still accept it, but there are pleasures other than the purely sensual.” Now I’m beginning to see why augmenting an Androgum might be a bad idea.

S: “Fortunately, I have not been augmented.”

C: “Take care. Your purity could easily become insufferable.”

Then there’s some stuff about Andrgum culture, and she’s some kind of princess or something, but she has a Vision. And all I can think is that her hair is so very eighties.

Still want to strangle Peri. Six fainted and now he’s . . . all peculiar? He’s after celery (Five!) "[A]nd the tensile strength of jelly babies. But I . . . I had a clarinet, Or was it a flute? Something you blew into.” Well, you certainly blew something all right.

The TARDIS’ circuits. And Jamie. D6: “A recorder! […] I was being put to death!” So time paradox. He exists so he wasn’t killed. He’s a temporal tautology. Whatever that is. :/

P: “Circular logic only makes you dizzy […] Perhaps you should see a doctor! [… I]t was just a suggestion.” Peri, you and your headband and your teeth grindingly irritating accent and your boobs can go away now. I think you might be one of the least like Companions for all that you’re rather pretty.

The Doctor has business cards for Archimedes, Brunel, Christopher Columbus, Dante, Da Vinci and Dastari amongst others. Ehm. Archimedes was a philosopher/inventor chappie, hardly a Doctor; Brunel might have been a Doctor. Of Engineering. Dante’s a poet. Columbus is an explorer famous for getting lost. Da Vinci was an all-round genius though.

Oh. Aperture is formally known as Space Station Camera (pronounced cam-air-er, not cam-er-ah).

Rho mesons. Are they real things? Are they unstable elements in pin galaxies. Which are galaxies in an atom. That exist for an atto-second. Ah. Mumbo jumbo.

D6 (I feel like I’m in a very strange tabletop game): “You know, I’m glad I thought up that idea […] Getting medical help!” Bit smug, but I’ve seen other Doctors do the same thing.

Aperture looks fancy. Amazing special effects those.

And now they’re in Aperture, but later than Our Retro Boys were. Everything’s mouldy. And Peri doesn’t seem to know why. Then again, bit of black humour adding “[a]nd corpses.” Oh gross. Come on! “Fruit-soft flesh peeling from white bones. The unholy, unburiable smell of Armageddon.” What’s with the meat hate?

I can’t keep my eyes off of Peri’s boobs.

Also: growling thing.

And laser bolt holes still smoking. Hey wait. If it was a recent fight, why is everything rotting so badly? And great, Peri’s still coming along.

And male!Majel speaks up saying that the tech researched here threatened the Time Lords and the usual computer-in-an-abandoned-facility stuff. About which the Doctor is remarkably blasé.

Doctor, stop pointing at Peri’s boobs when you tell her to come along.

Beeping noises. Places are being depressurised, which I’m pretty sure is bad. Yep. Death. Fortunately, the Doctor’s got a door jack thing.

And Peri faints. MY FIRST FAINTING COMPANION! Booyah! And then the door opens, the camera being on the other side so we can get a nice fan service shot of Peri’s shorts hugging her curvy rear. Worthless woman.

And now we’re in a place that has Spanish guitar music (with electronic stuff too).

Hey, how does Chess know there’re people in that building? Is she spykick? And why is it that the pseudo-cannibal is the comic relief villain? And Chess appears to eat human flesh too. Le sigh. I knew I’d need a cannibalism tag in my photobucket eventually. (The woman is old bee tea dubs)

Back to Aperture. Dastari hates computers

And everyone’s dead Dave. Peri. TO be honest, Dave’s probably smarter than Peri. Six continues in his belief that a gathering a researchers for research’s sake could harm no one (which is extremely idealistic, even for the Doctor).

The lights are on because the computer’s lost them. Can’t they track heartbeats? As opposed to foot heat.

If Jamie’s dead I’m rage quitting.

D6: “Think of it has a game between it and us.” Would. You. Like. To play. A. Game. Noughts and Crosses perhaps? I’m sure that film came out a year or so before this serial was aired (Feb, 1985).

Ugh. Peri. And Six catches up with what Two already knows. Question: this was clearly written after he rejected Two’s request/demand for Those Two Guys to stop their research. But almost immediately after that he collapsed into a drugged/dead state. So where did this entry come from? Or was Two the second messenger?

6: “[The Time Lords] would commit never such an atrocity! The use of force is alien to Time Lord. nature” Um. Er. Doctor: you are a Time Lord. You commit violence and blackmail and often force people to do things against their will. And when you were Four the Time Lords asked that you prevent the Daleks from ever being created! That is: genociding an entire race before they could commit atrocities! You yourself (as Two) admitted that your freedom came at the cost of running errands for the Time Lords so they could use plausible deniability to save face and maintain their neutrality. You have openly admitted to Time Lords as a whole being fond of manipulation and back-handed force. Or do you not remember being blackmailed into even thinking of genociding the Daleks in the first place?!

P: “Perhaps they felt the ends justified the means.” And a sensible thought from someone who strikes me as not much smarter than your average squirrel. “That’s always the excuse for something bad.” And something cynical yet true about human nature! “[…]Maybe someone’s setting the Time Lords up?” Another one! I may have only known Peri for half an hour, but until this point in time, I never thought of her as observant or smart.

6: “YOu know, sometimes young Peri, you make amazingly shrewd remarks.” And neither did the Doctor.

Where’s Jamie?

So yeah. Politics and whatnot. And the Doctor, of course, wants to find out why. And was so intrigued by the idea that he forgot about their homicidal computer friend.

There’s going to be duct crawling isn’t there? And Peri has the constitution of a very temperamental tropical plant.

The Doctor needs a piece of wire. Well, Peri’s clearly wearing a push up underwired bra, get her to strip off camera while you’re looking the other way and Bob’s your uncle. Death by dehydration? Will take three days on average.

Oh look, Six has a banana in his pocket too. And destroys modern art. Good taste.

Spain? Virgin Mary statue. Very old lady genuflecting before her. And a rose for the Virgin. Oh no, it’s a blind old religious lady.

Oh hey. Actual Spanish. I think she’s a real proper Spanish person. And the subtitles are in Spanish too. Something along the lines of ‘Is there someone there?’ I presume. Sadly, it’s the pirate-chef. Oh good, she’s bilingual, less butchering of the Spanish (hahahahaha) for me. And now she’s unconscious as the pirate-chef makes some guttural and oddly pervy growling noises. Also, that Sontarans face looks like it’s caving in somewhat.

Need to stop to eat an actual dinner.

So duct crawling it is, and that meat doesn’t look very rotten. And now that the lights are on you can see dead people.

HOW DO YOU KNOW AN ANDROGUM WHEN YOU SEE ONE?

And on an old set for Red Dwarf there’s dust. And the Doctor’s getting head pains. Off to the control centre.

Where’s Jamie.

And for that matter: how’s this a two Doctor story without two Doctors?

More growling from the growling thing.

And Spain. Varl is setting up a homing beacon to bring Sontarans to earth and Chess thinks discretion is the better part of valour because overpopulation.

S: “By the time I leave it madam, that may not be a problem.” He must have a massive appetite to want to devour some four billion humans. Also, dude: you’re face is red. Oh, and the Spanish lady’s dead now.

Okay. C: “This region of the planet is called Andalucía [with correct Spanish pronunciation]. We are four kilometres from the city of city [or two and a half miles in proper measurements] of Seville [where Bugs Bunny works as a barber].”

Oh no. Please don’t talk religion. Also, the dead lady was called Dona Arrana.

S: “I am not interested in the beliefs of primitives, only what they taste like!” And in the cultural wossname that follows the fact that they eat other thinking species (primitives) is reinforced. Also, "that foreign filth injected into you by Dastari” while obviously referring to science! sends my mind in an entirely wrong direction because of the previously mentioned skeevy, unsettlingly sexual scenes.

And more pipes lit with purple. More scaffolding is being climbed.

Every time I see Peri and hear her I want to slap her. She’s almost like Rose.

Science, science, science, and Peri’s too dumb to listen to one noise (growling) while blocking out another noise. Ugh.

Yeah. Smug Six is annoying. “The province of knowledge is to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.”

P: “Privilege. I can’t tell you how privileged I feel,” It’s a bad thing to make me agree with Peri. Also: yet more growling.

Is it Jamie? If Jamie’s gone mad I will not be happy. Where’s Jamie? I want my Jamie back.

Mysterious hooded man. Is he going to appear in one of Tobuscus’ literal trailers?

More science, but the Doctor understand it so all’s fine. “Blue. You know, I can’t remember what blue stands for.” Bet it’s important. But Peri’s off to the central place of switching off.

In Spain, Sontaran balls have arrived! Also obviously British tourist is obviously British and a tourist. Whose guide is fond of trespassing on people’s land. In this case, they’re going to get murderlised and eaten because trespassing is evil.

The pirate-chef is the epitomy of gluttony. But he hates watermelons. And the leader of the Sontarans is arriving. S: “Our leader is Chessene o’ the Franzine Grig.” Whatever that means. One thing I do like (and find frustrating (which in this case is a good thing)) is that often in Doctor Who alien cultural references are often left completely unexplained, or barely sketched out. It makes the universe much richer.

Oh Stike. He’s the leader.

Back with the trespassers. Oscar is a moth hunter. A lepidopterist. “Of course, we are a little early. Moths are ladies of the night. Painted beauties sleeping all day and rising at sunset to whisper through the roseate dusk on gossamer wings of damask and silk.”

One: a lady of the night is a seamstress. A whore. A painted lady. A jezebel. And the reason the sleep all day is because they ply their craft at night. While dressed in damask and silk. Also, as he says the first half of that the camera’s focussed on his lady friend (Anita), so I think this is meant to be a compliment and not-so-oblique hint at what he believes is to come.

A: “You really like them don’t you Oscar.”

O: “I adore them!”

A: “Then why do you kill them?”

O: “So that I can look at them.” Silence of the Lambs reference please.

HE HAS A BOX OF CYANIDE. “I’ve used cyanide since I was a boy. It’s quicker and easier on them than ammonia.” And then they’re mounted so he can admire them. Yeah, okay, I know people like that sort of thing, but again, all this weirdly sexual talk makes innocuous topics unnerving.

Oh, and there’s a Sontaran ball flying towards them. CGI’s not bad for their budget and time.

Natch, they run after it.

And now the scientists are mind-controlled by the Sontarans - I say so because I saw Dastari helping a Sontaran carry some other dude.

Also, Peri found the growly thing’s nest. Is it Jamie? I want Jamie. Well, Peri’s being assaulted by a growly man-shaped thing and as they’re writing on his/its nest the Doctor’s been gassed and is being hung.

Dark.

Scream out!

I like how the two Doctors are credited as different roles. Also, John Stratton plays Shockeye, so I’ll have to Google him later I think. And Lawrence Payne was Dastari.

Also, since when did Classic Who do forty-five minute episodes?

Can’t stand Peri; Six isn’t too bad, bit smug, but not overbearingly so (at the moment). Effects and music are quite decent for the time, but the eighties clothing and hair (SIX AND PERI I SEE YOU) are well, bouffant and colourful beyond the extreme. The pirate-chef is creepy and I quite like his performance overall. An interesting premise, and I think the set up is very thorough.

Could use more Jamie and Two, but are you surprised that I’d demand that? Also: who’s Victoria? Was she pre- or post-Zoe?

NEXT!

[CurlyKitGirl]

And now, to boldly go where many have gone before. [*cue TOS theme (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdjL8WXjlGI) (Such a awesome introduction)*]

'The Two Doctors' part 2/3 (season 22, serial 4)


Don’t know if I’ll get all this done, will have to phone mum in a few stops and that chat will take a while I bet.

Recap the last minute or so. Yes, let’s see Peri in a rape-look-a-like situation as the Doctor gets hanged again!

The growly thing hit his head. Another ass shot and Peri doesn’t seem very - the Doctor was hanged and she pulled him down. I’m sure that would kill him faster!

And he blames Peri for him triggering the gas! Which would have affected a “normal person” for hours. And he wasn’t affected because “I closed my respiratory passage as soon as I detected any danger.” BY BEING HANGED.

Is it Jamie?

IT’S JAMIE! JAMIE IS WEARING TROUSERS! And he’s confused because Jamie should be with old him. As if Jamie didn’t have a pre- and post-Doctor life. Also: Six has a cat pin on his lapel. I love cats.

Jamie isn’t wearing a kilt. Also he’s badly traumatised so he’s forcibly restrained and drugged against his will by two strangers.

6: “I seem to remember I was always rather fond of Jamie.” Yes. Yes you were. Everyone is fond of Jamie. You, however, were in love with Jamie. Don’t deny it.

Oh God. 6: “His nervous system was temporarily paralysed. He’ll be fine eventually.” THing is? Your lungs need your nerves to work correctly in order to breathe. Pretty sure of that. Also Im fairly sure you would lose control of your bowels as the muscles would be unable to control whether to contract or not, so sadly, Jamie has soiled himself. And can speak even though he can’t breathe.

Jamie’s sleeptalking! That’s cute. Less cute is the fact they killed Two.

Six thinks Jamie’s slightly nutters, but bemused by how sure of the fact Jamie is.

P: “Don’t ask me, I don’t understand any of this.” And that’s Peri’s default reply to everything.

That is a nice pocket watch. So, hypnosis trick. Six catches up with exactly what Two was doing on Aperture.

Knights? Like Colludon? “They had a sort of armour. Heavy with no necks. And their hands were just two great fingers. They killed everyone. They killed the Doctor! I saw them!” Poor Jamie. All my hugs go to Jamie. I’m collecting hugs for a Make A Traumatised Jamie Fell Better Fund, please deposit your hugs in the box below. Thank you. Seriously, he lost his partner and best friend, had to survive for . . . weeks(?) alone and abandoned on a space station centuries from home with very little food to eat, all the while thinking people could be coming back to hurt him.

All my hugs Jamie. All my hugs.

Jesus, the size of the needle Six pulls out of Jamie’s neck! It’s nearly as long as his neck is wide!

So did Jamie ever see the Sontarans before? Peri certainly hasn’t.

Don’t go leaving a paralysed and traumatised person on their own! Even if they’re going to be unparalysed soon, you shouldn’t do that! They could choke to death on their own saliva!

Back in Spain. Joint hallucinations are rejected by the woman. Oscar’s a bit odd, and thinks the ball is an aeroplane, and that if there’s no wreckage it didn’t exist. Or it landed safely. Abject coward. Although he admitted it earlier.

And afraid of blood.

So that Anita lady says we forge on ahead even as he suggests calling the police and sundry others. I also don’t like his moustache.

And he’s an exile? Or something?

6: “Of course I never thought for a moment it was the Time Lords.” Denial is a river in Egypt too. But at least now I know that he’s alive the diary entry makes more sense. I should trust Robert Holmes more. Even if he hates meat. Or sex. Both. He didn’t know what

The Time Lords are “rabidly xenophobic” according to Six. And isn’ there another powerful race of rabidly xenophobic time travellers running around too? And I don’t kn - oh, maybe he means the Sontarans are rabidly xenophobic. They’re the ones who hate the Rutans yes?

Computers computers, ‘no speak’. Can‘t be bothered to read what’s on the screen. I was right, Rutans and Sontarans

And while people have been murdered, Peri only cares that she looks a mess. Then put some clothes on.

Also, Six doesn‘t care about Jamie. I didn‘t understand a word of that science. Basically, the Doctor‘s death caused the end of the universe. In a few centuries. So does that mean his death will catch .up to him soon?

6: “She can’t comprehend. The scale of it all.” She can’t understand the scale of money let alone anything else! But she does care about Jamie, so that’s nice. “Eternal blackness. No more sunsets. No more lumberjacks. Nevermore a butterfly.”

And Peri#’s dying! YAY! Dastari’s dying? Two? Six? What is this nonsense and is Six going mad?

No. But Jamie’s awake and sassy so all is well with the world!

Until Six replays the murder machine recording, thus making Jamie live through seeing his partner and best friend murdered before his eyes. Again. P: “Doctor, it’s horrible! Stop it!”

Oh, so it’s a faked death. So Two is just kidnapped. Good. J: “So you don’t think the Doctor’s dead? My Doctor?” D’awwwwwww.

6: “No, I don’t, Jamie.” Y’know, Jamie’s probably been in all the multi-Doctor stories hasn’t he? ‘Three Doctors’ was ten years, so Jamie; ‘Five Doctors’ was Five and everyone and their mothers was in it (except Four). No wonder he’s taking this so well.

6: “This means my theory about the embolism is wrong. This begins to have all the hallmarks of a conspiracy.”

P: “What sort of conspiracy?”

J: “A plot.” Ha. While I love Jamie, I freely admit he’s not the smartest Companion by far, and being a C17th Scotsman probably isn’t all that educated. So Peri, you just got schooled. You really a dumb.

6: “That’s right, Jamie. A plot to kidnap me and Dastari as well.” Ah, that explains the trousers last episode. Stupid Curly is stupid? Also, nice to see Six is still so fond of Jamie to the point the even compliment Jamie on giving a synonym for ‘conspiracy’ without clarifying what kind of conspiracy he thinks it is.

Even Six hates Peri.

Jamie shouldn’t be wearing trousers.

I HATE AMERICAN ACCENTS. ‘Symbiosis’ is pronounced sim-bee-oh-sis, but sim-by-oh-sis. Also the Sontarans want to steal Time Lord DNA to do things with it. Le sigh. And a certain Ten did something similar, in reverse in that Dalek two-parter from season two.

So the mind-slip - telepathy. “[A]stral link”?! Okay, I know Eleven did something psychic a few times, but still? He even makes a ‘meditating Vulcan’ pose.

J: “I think your Doctor’s worse than mine.” Well, it is widely agreed that Six’s reign was not very good, while many people have praise for what remains from Two’s era. However, Six is seen as the best Big Finish Doctor, so swings and roundabouts darling.

And might I add you look very handsome all dishevelled and smudged up. But please get out of that boiler suit into your normal wear, it’s not you.

Spain again. Two's unconscious on the operating table. HELLO TWO! Also mostly in grey colours.

HA! And the first word out of Two’s mouth is “Jamie”. Tell me they’re not in love! Yes, fine, a blurry Dastari could be conceived as looking a little like Jamie, but allow me my beliefs please.

Plus it’s adorable that even when a Doctor Jamie doesn’t know yells out his name he runs straight to is side even though he can’t touch.

Well, that was a quick astral travel. Boing? Bells are the clue it seems. Huh, a reference I made earlier was fulfilled unexpectedly. And again. 6: “Can’t quite remember [where we’re meant to be going]. Something to do with getting my hair cut.” followed by the usual snippet. Genius me is genius? Or just obvious reference being there.

Spain. Supplies are being stashed. I still think Varl’s face is eating itself. Still haven’t seen Stike. Blah, blah, too close to population blah blah.

Hokay. Chess eats minds, pirate-chef eats bodies. Yum.

And now it was Stike’s idea to go to Earth for war purposes even though the pirate-chef said it first. Ah, two wishes to go.

Dastari, stop talking about the Androgums as lesser people. Yes, ruled by their passions and so on, but not entirely ‘lesser’. And I want to know what it is everyone keeps dancing around regarding Chess’s augmentations. Is she or is she not Androgum entirely?

Oh, and the pirate-chef is our Renfield for the serial. Completely with the eating raw of small mammals. C: “All of our chefs sample their ingredients raw before even heating their cooking pots.”

Fake rat is obviously fake.

In the TARDIS. Seville! Not from the operetta, but the boing. And I was right about the imperial measurements too.

6: “Have you ever been to Seville Peri.”

P: “No have you?”

6: “How else would I know the Santa Maria when I hear it? Do use your brain! Small though it is, the human brain can be quite effective when used properly.” Okay, patronising, and normally I don’t like verbal abuse of a Companion, but I can’t stand Peri, and I’ve known her for . . . One hour and two minutes. Thusly, I approve of this insulting reprimand.

Also, ‘arcane’ Peri, means ‘known or understood by few’, ‘mysterious’, ‘secret’ and so on. What the Doctor just displayed (aside from that he’s very talented at insults) is pub quiz knowledge. H probably learnt it by watching QI. And put your boobs away Peri.

Oh, so Jamie was only alone for twelve days. Nice to know. And Jamie’s back in his kilt! And the Doctor kept changes of clothes in Jamie’s preferred style for centuries! Tell me again they’re not in a romantic relationship. And he does look dashing. And he has lacy cuffs and a cravat and oh look at you darling.

6: “You look better for a change of clothes and bath.” Oh he does indeed. I wish I could take a pic, he looks so dapper! You know what, when I do a Wikipedia look up for the pirate-chef and Dastari I’ll add a Jamie!pic too. One can never have enough Jamie. “[…] I’m not crotchety, I’m just . . . Concerned. […] About myself mostly. I mean, him languishing in some dark dungeon at the mercy of Sontarans.” Or rather, a camp 1980s fashion designer.

Also, the Doctor’s been locked in so many dungeons he can recognise them by sound.

Heh. Jamie tells off Six for being clumsier than Two at driving, so Six insults himself. His past self. “If anything happens to myself because f it, I will never forgive himself.” And, sad as it may be, I agree with Peri, it’d be easier to understand what he’s saying if he kept to one pronoun. Why else do you think we use numbers Doctor?

Two wakes up hungover and diagnoses the general type of drug he’d been drugged with.

Hello Stike! Their lips don’t work very well I’m afraid. Also they’re taller and thinner than the Sontarans of Nu Who.

2: “Jamie. What have you done with Jamie?!” See? First thing he thinks about after remembering what happened on Aperture is Jamie. Not his fate, but Jamie’s.

Chess: “You companion is long since dead, Doctor." He begins to freak and get off the table despite it being medically inadvisable. “The Sontarans take no prisoners.”

Gen S: “Inflexible policy.” And then Two begins to wail “No” quite pitifully and has to be forcibly restrained. "Poor old Jamie.“ Two. Loves. Jamie.

Also: that’s an experiment table that is; it’s got restraints and everything.

Away from Two’s mourning, those moth collectors have coincidentally bumped into the TARDIS, whereupon Oscar immediately mistakes Six for a policeman. A policeman officer in an open-necked white short, red and yellow striped trousers and . . . Un unbelievably loud flowered waistcoat. If ever a man looked less like a policeman it’s because he was Kenneth Williams, Freddie Mercury, Dr. Frank-N-Furter or the Joker.

Oscar Botcherby. Botcherby. Well, if a name dictates your job . . . And how can he think a plane crashed when, as Kryten put it, ‘'There [were] no sounds to hear!”

Stop looking down Peri’s boobs Oscar. Peri, put your boobs away. That has to be the first time anyone told Six he wore “plain clothes”. Ell Owe Ell.

Those cicadas are loud. And the scenery is lovely.

Seriously, a plane crashes when it goes up in fire or hit’s a large surface of water. What this ‘plane’ made was an emergency stop. Also, Oscar has a restaurant? Maybe? He’s a prat.

Then in the Evil Basement of Science there’s a giant plexiglass crystal thing that is Kratzenburger rhyming module. It sucks because it doesn’t have a stabilisation field, so Dastari says the Time Lords have a psychic link with their TARDISes (which is true) although Two says its guesswork.

Oh, are they going to take out his brain or something?

Chess was the lady who figured all that.

Then there are going to be gruesome experiments on Two to find out where his telepathic centres are? Sadface. I like Two. Hehe. Two thinks Dastari is “totally under Chessene’s domination”.

So. Dastari plans to give Chess - “an Adrogum, [who]’ll snap off the hand that feeds her whenever she feels hungry” (2) - the secret of time travel to make her a god. Um yeah no. Reavers are bad enough when they can’t time travel thankyouverymuch. While I was all for consensual experimentations earlier, there comes a point where you have to step back and think ‘what if my highly experimental genetic augmentations - that I performed on a member of a species that eats other sentient creatures raw for funsies (and this is seen as perfectly normal, and is in fact, expected from all their chefs) - goes horribly wrong somehow? Maybe I shouldn’t give her Time Lord technology. Just in case.

That bit of spider web drifting across the screen is distracting.

D: “I was disappointed when I heard the Time Lords were sending you as their emissary, because I’ve always had a certain regard for you, Doctor, personally,” [why does everyone want to have sex with Two? He’s Jamie’s] “[A]nd the operation will, of necessity, be painful, but . . . […] at least you’ll have the satisfaction knowing you were part of a great undertaking.” And you’ve crossed firmly into true mad scientist territory with that. Where’s the Igor and lightning conductor? Well, I suppose the pirate-chef counts as Igor.

I’m watching Two in bondage. 2: “Oh my giddy aunt. Oh, crumbs.” Yes. That.

. . . I think Dastari’s going to perform plastic surgery on Two. Does this mean Dastari was always evil? Or was he subverted into evil over time by Chessene?

Blah, Stike is impatient, and Dastari’s a cooly impetuous and arrogant mad scientist who orders a General of a warrior race into becoming . . . Well

2: “Tea-time already nurse.” And this line is so much funnier as I’d met Strax first.

S: “I do not understand.”

2: “Well, a face likes yours wasn’t made for laughing.” Bound to an operating table as a Sontaran wheels Science! equipment to his bedside and he snarks. Then he bitches about the Rutans and Sontarans being -

It really is distracting being the actors lips moving behind the makeup’s lips. Especially seeing as those lips look like they might be in blackface.

Stike wants the Doctor to tell the Evil Guys the quickest way to get the technobabble in his DNA, natch Two refuses, so Stike hits Two!! You wait ‘til Jamie finds out, and you’ll see why violent Glaswegians are a media trope. Christ. You hit Two! Look at him! He’s short and adorable and a bit of a fuddy duddy and you know he’d be the best uncle ever and you hit him. You are now irredeemable.

And Two straight up challenges Stike to a duel, calling him a “coward” and “without honour”, which is basically like walking up to a Klingon and telling them that not only do they bring shame to Kahless because they embroider cushions at home, but that there’s no chance of them ever going to Sto’Vo’Kor after death.

And with that I hang my head in shame.

Two does too, but not because of me; his plan failed as Stike says non-Sontarans can’t impugn a Sontaran’s honour. So very Klingon.

Seville: Two’s [[EDIT 30/04/2013: I mean Six. Seems even when referring to the Doctors by numbers you can get mixed up.]] trying to be sneaky. In those clothes. The incidental music is lovely.

. . . I swear the pirate-chef is wearing lipstick. And is drawing culinary comparisons between humans and Androgums. S: “Now, there cannot be a creature on the planet that humans do not kill and eat.” Well, some. Mostly because they’re usually unreachable or rank. I would say endangered, but you know that right this second someone’s out there negotiating for panda or rhino meat. “Many beasts are bred especially for the table. They are force-fed to improve the flesh, and are penned in small, confined quarters to fatten more rapidly.”

Question: is Robert Holmes a vegetarian? Only the cannibalistic, sadistic, possibly perverted villain with peachy orange eyebrows, lipstick and a multitude of warts is admiring humanity’s less humane ways of breeding animals for their meat. I think someone’s trying to tell me being an omnivore is wrong. Even though we’re designed to be omnivorous. Also: bacon. Nothing that tastes so delicious can be wrong.

Still, it fit’s the character, and it doesn’t seem too jarring given that the pirate-chef’s obsession has been more than well-established. And yet he can’t seem to understand cannibalism isn’t done by humans. By ‘civilised’ humans at least. This implies cannibalism amongst Androgums is normal.

S: “Oohhhh, but a species that is at the top of the food chain, as these creatures are, must develop the finest flavour of all. They have the pick of the planet’s resources and - ” (and by the way, Six is eavesdropping on this, didn’t mention it because dialogue) Besides, everyone knows humans taste rather like pork.

Six goes undetected even though he was a clumsy clot.

S: “I must taste a Tellurian soon. A young one, with a good proportion of meat to the bone. I am becoming insane for such a feast.” I am not the only person who substituted boner for ‘boner’ [[EDIT 30/04/2013: well, I certainly did twice]]. All this sexually suggestive dialogue.

Also, Chess wants to nom on human too. You don’t want to be giving a cannibal time travel now do you? Then again, she and the baby Eating Bishop of Bath and Wells would get on famously with the Androgums.

Oscar is an actor and restaurant manager.

Peri, how did you not get grass in down your bra lying down like that?

Blah blah, Six catches everyone up, and Jamie chimes in that Chess was at Aperture and so on and so forth. 6: “And I was right!” regarding the stupidity of genius-ing up an Androgum. “[H]er nature will remain exactly the same.” Also they’re about as empathetic as Pratchett’s elves.

Peri needs to perform a distraction so a walking explosion in a rainbow factory, a Scottish man in full-on Scottish dress, a camp actor and a Spanish lady can get in unnoticed. I suggest taking your top off. Not that it would affect all that much, but at least that least fifty of your boobs’ll get a good tan too. God shut up Peri. I’m praying to you to do this.

And now the camp pirate-chef is trying on clothes as the dumb brunette with big tits and great legs tries to cause a distraction. By knocking on the door pretending to be lost. When a cannibal’s on the prowl. Guess he’ll be doing something other than motor boating those boobs.

Luckily: mad science! On a fully conscious Two. I think I figured out why these Sontarans look so weird: make a head out of plasticene, then squeeze it all along the jaw line so it goes squish.

Then unconscious Two is bombarded with CGI lights and - chainsaw to the eyeball!! Thank God for cutaways.

Anita’s not wearing a bra either.

Peri’s going to be eaten, but she had a rather good plan. Shame Chess can read minds.

So now it’s Six and Jamie all alone in a darkened stable. And of course Six goes down the ladder first, he must really have missed the view over the last four regenerations. Oh Jamie, I do love you.

Chess really seems to be in control here, so Two’s going to get wheeled up past Peri to see how she reacts. The pirate-chef wants to eat a Sontaran.

Hmm, so are Six and Two going to cause a paradox thing by crossing their temporal streams. Also, Jamie wants to run straight after his Doctor, but apparently the pirate-chef - despite looking like a terribly unfit fifty-year-old, could break them in half with one hand.

Two gets wheeled past Peri, and as she’s being taken to the kitchens she’s been rumbled. Luckily, not even Peri is dumb enough to walk into a room full of sharp pointy things that can kill her.

Chess just smiled at the camera.

. . . That Katzenburger what sit actually is a TARDIS. And thinking on it, I swear I saw a clip on YouTube of a TARDIS shaped like that, but it’s probably a false memory. Hey! It’s a Thing of Rassilon! - A “Rassilon Imprimatur - a symbiotic print within the physiology of Time Lords”. I didn’t know there were Things of Rassilon (or Rassilon Things) anywhere else. Dude must be really important if they named parts of their DNA after him.

Of course there were Sontarans behind them.

Peri does Jiggle Physics marvellously. And oc course she has weak ankles. And of course the pirate-chef cements his perverseness by standing one leg on either side of her rear, raising clawed hands to his face and growling “Pretty, pretty.” to himself. “Here my pretty one.” Here’s I pic I edited in especially (http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20071115153902/tardis/images/c/c2/Shockeye.jpg).

Nothing like a rape face to make your behind-the-seat neighbour pause and do an audible double-take as they stand to go to the café.

And of course we end the episode there! And cut to creeping creeper Colin Baker face zooming into the background!

Scream out!

And with only half an hour until I pull into home, we end the episodes there.

Dapper Jamie is dapper (http://media.tumblr.com/bd7446ddc204baba783b35fc4aa915e8/tumblr_inline_mglxyqZYhR1qf2h9o.jpg). Pirate-chef is Camp (http://wilybadger.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/shockeye.jpg). Put your boobs away Peri (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_jvBFHkK2ZXc/Sy1nePZxf0I/AAAAAAAAF2Y/tkeK-V8ruqU/s400/Peri+2+Doctors.jpg). What is this Two I don’t even (http://www.doctorwhoreviews.co.uk/6W_files/The%20Two%20Doctors%207.jpg). Six and Jamie and Boobs (http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m85kph2KBq1qepzg9o1_500.png). Pirate-chef trying to buy Jamie from Two (http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lg6yqwrIGq1qg2fczo1_1280.png) - told you it was creepy.

And John Stratton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Stratton_%28actor%29) was basically in every British live action television show in the 1960s and ‘70s, including The Avengers that don’t have Iron Man in them. Laurence Payne on the other hand . . . Ben Hur (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laurence_Payne). But not as anyone important. And was also in Doctor Who’s ‘The Gunfighters’ and ‘The Leisure Hive’.

Preview: No preview this time.

Best Moment: Anything with Jamie in it? Especially the paired heartrending distress Jamie and Two go through individually at the thought that the other is dead. It’s adorable and sweet and sad. And it was really cool to see the black-and-white introduction fade into the colour of Six’s reign. Then again, I did also like most scenes with the pirate-chef in because he’s so balls-out weird. He is alien with alien morals and beliefs.

Worst Moment: Peri’s idiocy. Especially her ‘have you been to Seville Doctor’ moment when he’d just displayed knowledge that indicated a fairly intimate knowledge of not only Seville, but the surrounding area.

Best Actor: Jamie and Two and Shockeye. The first two do such a wonderful performance, and you can tell they’re loving working together, so they’re performances when they’re grieving are excellent. I am nost definitely looking forward to their reunion.

Shockeye gets one for being so damn weird. You can definitely tell he’s operating on a completely different moral, ethical and emotional plane from humans and most humanoids. It’s a very good, disturbing performance.

Worst Actor: Peri’s accent can die in all the fires, and Botcherby is just bleh.

Best Special Effect: Ehm. There weren’t any? Well, the TARDIS effect is always good. And so is the location shooting, that counts as a special effect right? I’m sorry, there just weren’t the effects just weren’t really all that outstanding. They were standard effects.

Worst Special Effect: Those eyebrows man. Those eyebrows. And the outfits in general. It’s saying something when the man dressed in full formal Highland attire is one of the most normally dressed people on stet.

Most Punchable Character: Take a guess. Go on. Here’s a clue: it’s Peri.

Death Count: The people on Aperture who weren’t scientists, Dona Arana.

Kink of the Episode: Jamie.

Was Not Expecting: Peri’s boobs. And the constantly sexualised meat talk. Hehehe. Sexualised meat.

Overall thoughts?
Saving most of my thoughts for the conclusion, so a quick opinion: I don’t really see why people don’t like Six. He’s smug, but all Doctors are to some extent. Frankly, Peri’s by far the most annoying thing so far about Six’s reign, although that coat and Six’s apparel in general is rather an eyesore.

I love Two and Jamie and they put in great performances, although I do wish Two was more than a Distressed MacGuffin Guy, but I’m holding out for there being awesome in the final third.

The villains are strange, but in a good way; I really do want to find out more about the Androgum society because there does seem to be an interesting tension between Chess and the pirate-chef, and the fact that it’s such a sadistic race (by human and most humanoid’s standards) makes them stand out rather well compared to most of Who’s alien cultures. They’re compelling but in a repellant way. Although I do wish they’d leave off a bit on the whole sexualisation of flesh thing. I bet if I Googled this episode/Robert Holmes I’d find out that this episode deliberately had a veggie bent to it. Sorry to say Mr. Holmes, but it didn’t really work.

However, it does work out better than most anvils (so far) in that the anvil is sometimes delivered rather cleverly. Getting the cruelty of battery animals across via the pirate-chef was very well done on your part because that sort of thing is very believable coming from him. It was well-foreshadowed that meat is a key part of his nature, and his obsession is shown frequently and well. This semi-philosophical musing on his part seems like something he’d actually say rather than it be something shoehorned into his dialogue.

And Peri can die in all the fires.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

The dingo ate my jelly baby! *Looks around new thread* Hmm...its bigger on the inside!

I wish I could watch the new episode, but I no longer have cable. :smallannoyed:

[KillianHawkeye]

I wish I could watch the new episode, but I no longer have cable. :smallannoyed:

That is quite a serious problem! :smallbiggrin:

I'm sure that, somewhere in the boundless fields of the Internet, there exists a solution to your problem.

[Dr. Simon]

Thoughts on Curly's review:

Peri: She has her moments, but to be honest the most memorable things about her are a) bad accent and b) boobs. Not only do her assets upstage Peter Davison's death scene, but her introductory scene (in Planet of Fire) basically involves the camera panning up and down her body as she strips to a swimming costume. I can barely remember that scene at all. Probably her best moment also comes in Planet of Fire - The Master: "I am the Master!". Peri "Well I'm Peragillium Brown and I can shout just as loud as you!"

45 minutes: For that series only, each story was a self-contained 45 minute episode, just like the modern ones.

Meat is Murder: Yes, the message is pretty heavy-handed, it's like being harangued by Morrisey for two hours.

Sontarans: I get the impression that the Beeb only had a few Sontaran costumes that fitted the original actors but were then unsuccessfully glued onto different shaped actors in subsequent Sontaran stories, as the make-up seems to get worse each story we see them in.

This story is all a bit of a mess, really, typical of the era, with too many half-cocked elements and some terrible fashion, but fun for the reappearance of the Second Doctor and Jamie.

Funny that the DVD should have a Jimmy Savile feature on it, since recent allegations (http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2013/mar/22/jnt-scandalous-doctor-who-review) seem to be that John Nathan-Turner wasn't much better.

[dps]

Sontarans: I get the impression that the Beeb only had a few Sontaran costumes that fitted the original actors but were then unsuccessfully glued onto different shaped actors in subsequent Sontaran stories, as the make-up seems to get worse each story we see them in.

According to SF Debris, the same mask was used for Davros in "Genesis of the Daleks" and "Destiny of the Daleks". Unfortunately, Davros was played by Micheal Wisher in the former and David Gooderson in the latter, and since the mask had been custom-made for Wisher, didn't really fit Gooderson. Given that, it's entirely possible, probable even, that Sontaran costumes were re-used with different actors.



Funny that the DVD should have a Jimmy Savile feature on it, since recent allegations (http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2013/mar/22/jnt-scandalous-doctor-who-review) seem to be that John Nathan-Turner wasn't much better.

From what I've read, Nathan-Turner's preferences were for 17 and 18 year old young men, and everything was consentual--it's only a scandal or criminal matter because the legal age of consent for homosexual sex in Britian was 21 at the time. Savile, on the other hand, was into much younger victims, and things were often coerced. So I'd say that Savile was much worse.

[CurlyKitGirl]

Thoughts on Curly's review:

Yay!


Peri: She has her moments, but to be honest the most memorable things about her are a) bad accent and b) boobs. Not only do her assets upstage Peter Davison's death scene, but her introductory scene (in Planet of Fire) basically involves the camera panning up and down her body as she strips to a swimming costume. I can barely remember that scene at all. Probably her best moment also comes in Planet of Fire - The Master: "I am the Master!". Peri "Well I'm Peragillium Brown and I can shout just as loud as you!"

Oh no. The Distressed Companion. Bouncing boobs and awful accent make me dub her Peri the Perilous. Stupid fanservice.


45 minutes: For that series only, each story was a self-contained 45 minute episode, just like the modern ones.

Huh. Guess it was more futuristic than it thought.


Meat is Murder: Yes, the message is pretty heavy-handed, it's like being harangued by Morrisey for two hours.

True, but it was foreshadowed so I can't really resent it as much as I wish too.


Sontarans: I get the impression that the Beeb only had a few Sontaran costumes that fitted the original actors but were then unsuccessfully glued onto different shaped actors in subsequent Sontaran stories, as the make-up seems to get worse each story we see them in.

Almost certainly. There's a reason that Doctor Who is the butt of budget jokes everywhere.


This story is all a bit of a mess, really, typical of the era, with too many half-cocked elements and some terrible fashion, but fun for the reappearance of the Second Doctor and Jamie.

Fun though. Not exactly excellent, and a bit slow, but there are some good bits in it.


Funny that the DVD should have a Jimmy Savile feature on it, since recent allegations (http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2013/mar/22/jnt-scandalous-doctor-who-review) seem to be that John Nathan-Turner wasn't much better.

Aaawwkward.

ION:
Found myself reading a Timeline of the Far Future (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_far_future), and discovered a reference to the Ordovician-Silurian Extinction Event (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordovician%E2%80%93Silurian_extinction_event). Dude. Silurians are scientific.
Also, I now feel very small indeed. Look at those numbers.

[Sunken Valley]

There goes my chance at stealing the OP. Maybe Thread VI: You Were Expecting Anyone Else?


Dame Diane Rigg's character has a name! It says that! Name's Mrs Gillyflower.

For everyone else, on further inspection, Celia Imrie appears to be the human dragon running the Spoonheads wi-fi operation in "Bells of St John". And in the "Rings..." episode, two of the monsters are called the Vigil and the Mummy.

Now for a new feature for my review thing...Advance Scores! I score every episode out of 10 (although my scores do fluctuate). I'm going to try and guess what scores I'll give every episode, in advance, with justification. Hidden in spoiler box.

Bells of St John: 8/10. Due to a mild deus ex machina ending and thinly veiled sexist stereotypes. Whilst the wi-fi monster is an awesome idea, I feel the excecution wasn't good enough. More "bubble shock", not "don't blink".

Rings of Bob (points for reference): 7/10. This episode is a semi-solid one and an a-ok standalone but that's about it. The plot is all-over the place and makes my appreciation of the story empty. Certainly the Vigil suffer, a very poorly used monster which could work.

Cold War: 8/10. I liked the twist at the end and it saved the episode. The characters felt poorly used, with no real personality, which is what you really need for an under siege story. However, this is not excessively annoying The Ice Warriors fail once again to be threatening and seem rather in the background to the boring humans in centre. Nice try but no.

Hide: 9/10. Brilliant! Everything about this episode is very atmospheric and the location looks nice. Jessica Raine was very good. Although I do feel the monster not being evil is getting worn out, especially as you've done it mutiple times this half-season.

Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS: 6/10. A wasted opportunity. We get all these new TARDIS rooms? Turn some damn lights on! This episode is far too dark in tone as well. We want to see TARDIS not your pointless talk. Move now before they get you! The continuity errors make it seem like a first draft. And too many unresolved questions.

Crimson Horror: 9/10. Hillarious, especially from Diane Rigg (surprise). Although I do think the shtick is getting a bit stale, especially from Strax. The trio work better as one off's. I mean Strax was well developed in Good Man. Now he's flanderised. Not again please.

Nightmare in Silver: 10/10. Entire Review consists of the words "Neil Gaiman is best Who writer". Although bit of crit for the end, an out of place build up for the finale.

His True Name (my new finale guess, with advice from Thufir): 5/10. These finale's get worse and worse don't they? The stakes and the resolution were stupid. Shut up River, don't infect Clara with your words. Don't like the Vastra and Jenny development. Whispermen were silly. And I don't like the idea that's his true name. Bit cheap? Richard E Grant was good, but not enough.


There we go.

Reposted advance scores, with three changes. See if you can spot them!

Also, summaries of later episodes. Here. (http://doctorwhotv.co.uk/series-7-short-synopses-for-final-eps-47189.htm) and Below

Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS
The TARDIS has crashed, Clara is lost inside, and the Doctor has 30 minutes before his ship explodes!

The Crimson Horror:
Something ghastly is afoot in Victorian Yorkshire, as bodies are found with their skin a waxy, glowing red.

Nightmare In Silver:
Hedgewick’s World of Wonders: the perfect theme park day out – and ground zero for a deadly silver resurrection.

Finale
Someone is kidnapping the Doctor’s friends, leading him towards the one place in all of time and space that he should never go.


Also question. Who is getting Idiot's Lantern flashbacks from Bells of St John (not a bad thing, that was the third best ep of season 2)? Or for that matter 42 flashbacks from the JTCTARDIS summary?

[KillianHawkeye]

Did anyone else find it weird that they named the new episode after something entirely unrelated to the plot (i.e. the little circular sign that's been on the door of the TARDIS since the beginning of Series 5)?

[Cen]

Did anyone else find it weird that they named the new episode after something entirely unrelated to the plot (i.e. the little circular sign that's been on the door of the TARDIS since the beginning of Series 5)?

I think it's good that they made it that way. In RTD era it was killing all suspence when episodes were named after main villans. I mean - big shock that some Dalek is alive in episode called "Dalek' was kinda weak. And hiding Sontarans from view in first half of 'Sontaran Stratagem'. I much prefer title being just loosely connected to the plot

[KillianHawkeye]

I much prefer title being just loosely connected to the plot

Well that would at least be preferrable to completely UNconnected from the plot. :smallsigh::smallamused:

[Androgeus]

i.e. the little circular sign that's been on the door of the TARDIS since the beginning of Series 5

The St. Johns Ambulance sticker? That's been on the tardis since 1963, it just kinda disappeared after the Hartnell left

[Kato]

Well that would at least be preferrable to completely UNconnected from the plot. :smallsigh::smallamused:
Well, it would be nice if you could read a title and recall the episode but... Ireally don't care that much about most episode titles unless they are really nice (e.g. Doctor's Wife)


Well... thank you Curly, I was almost about to do something productive this evening. Now instead I got to further my very sporadic knowledge of Old Who...

Peri: Okay, I guess it doesn't do me any good but I wouldn't be too hard on her. Yeah, the acting was only okay-ish (seriously, drop that accent or stick to it) but if anything it's obvious what the writers were thinking when they included her in the story (Also, kind of fascinating what fanservice looked like when I was born (well, year and a half before that). Even watching it today... it was kind of hard not to constantly lose my focus. (I've seen a clip of Fifth's death and... yeah, they were kind of distracting there (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvAenK95PfQ). But for a mere character for viewers to oggle at... she's not that bad. I wish the were a bit more consistent about whether she really is stupid for comedy's sake or not (as Curly noticed, she has a few good lines) or just not a time travelling alien.
I'm rambling. Short: Yeah, she's not great but considering the character isn't supposed to be much I didn't start to hate her in those 90 minutes.

What is it with the Doctor and bananas? (Fizz. Buzz. Have a bana~na. \obscure reference)

I still don't get why Dar... Dra... crazy scientist would bother to continue his diary after the attack. And then leave it there(???)

I think I'll stay away from that vegetarian discussion thingy... But... yeah, real subtle there, Mr Holmes.

Concerning the Androgeum... I'm not really that curious... they just seem like some chaotic evil species who is so evil they are even cannibals. Though I might suspect psychic lady (Chess...?) might have something not evil up her sleeve, somehow? Or something really evil. If it's something cannibal cook won't like it has to be something nice, right? Right?!

As I'm about entirely unfamiliar with Two's run (yeah, shame on me, sorry) I can't quite get behind the Two/Jamie shipping. Or maybe I'm just too superficial because... I really don't think Troughton is that attractive. There, I said it. Oh, Hines is a looker and with that kilt... wait, wait, I like boobs. Peri. Peri is hot. But Hines is also not bad to look at. Where was I? Oh, shipping. It's fun to read Curly's shipping and I guess the two have a certain chemistry from what little was in the episode of them together but I can't get behind the shipping myself. (Also, sorry Curly, Jamie looked way too disappointed at that Spanish lady when they parted)


Overall... it looks like a fun episode? Six is smug but entertainingly so, expect that bit after the meditation astral thing was pretty random to me (contact to old incarnations? btw, for a moment there I thought the Doctors might have swapped bodies. I think that would have been hilarious, possibly)
I'm curious how it will end... will there be episode three soon or should I just watch it on my own? I'm willing to wait a week or so but if you are too busy to get it done in a month I might as well watch it on my own.

Also, I (again, I think) take offense at that "proper measurements" comment. I might just be a simpleton but I like to convert a unit into another by multiplying with powers of ten instead... whatever complicated number you need to get from inch to mile to foot to yard.

[CurlyKitGirl]

Well... thank you Curly, I was almost about to do something productive this evening. Now instead I got to further my very sporadic knowledge of Old Who...

At least it's good pub quiz trivia. And maybe good for your nerd cred.


Peri: Okay, I guess it doesn't do me any good but I wouldn't be too hard on her. Yeah, the acting was only okay-ish (seriously, drop that accent or stick to it) but if anything it's obvious what the writers were thinking when they included her in the story (Also, kind of fascinating what fanservice looked like when I was born (well, year and a half before that). Even watching it today... it was kind of hard not to constantly lose my focus. (I've seen a clip of Fifth's death and... yeah, they were kind of distracting there (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvAenK95PfQ). But for a mere character for viewers to oggle at... she's not that bad. I wish the were a bit more consistent about whether she really is stupid for comedy's sake or not (as Curly noticed, she has a few good lines) or just not a time travelling alien.
I'm rambling. Short: Yeah, she's not great but considering the character isn't supposed to be much I didn't start to hate her in those 90 minutes.

I have an irrational dislike of certain accents, and Peri's is not only one of the accents that make me want to strangle people, but it keeps slipping. Which is even worse.
And yes, Peri's low-cut top and boob canyon is rather distracting during that death scene; and I bet you sixpence Peter Davison spent ages trying to look down her top.
I suppose if I ignore that accent and her boobage (which may be impossible) then her only real fault is her inconsistency of character. There are times where she seems rather sharp, but then idiocy. Her cover story was good, as was mentioning her friends and refusing to go in the kitchen with the creepy looking man; but the Seville thing and a few others. Oy.


What is it with the Doctor and bananas? (Fizz. Buzz. Have a bana~na. \obscure reference)

And the annoying thing is I kind of recognise the reference too.


I still don't get why Dar... Dra... crazy scientist would bother to continue his diary after the attack. And then leave it there(???)

Dastari.
And I think the idea behind the diary continuation was that he was either mind-controlled into writing an entry or two to frame the TIme Lords for the massacre. Or he was actually evil all along and did everything to frame the Time Lords etc. etc.


Concerning the Androgeum... I'm not really that curious... they just seem like some chaotic evil species who is so evil they are even cannibals. Though I might suspect psychic lady (Chess...?) might have something not evil up her sleeve, somehow? Or something really evil. If it's something cannibal cook won't like it has to be something nice, right? Right?!

Her real name's Chessene. And, being partway through the final episode, let's just say that it's not what one would expect. Seriously, this serial got dark. And yet wacky.
I want to know more about Androgums because they clearly don't operate on 'normal-for-the-Whoniverse' morals. What's it TVTropes calls it? Blue and Orange Morality. I like it when non-humans display clearly different versions and interpretations of morality.


As I'm about entirely unfamiliar with Two's run (yeah, shame on me, sorry) I can't quite get behind the Two/Jamie shipping. Or maybe I'm just too superficial because... I really don't think Troughton is that attractive. There, I said it. Oh, Hines is a looker and with that kilt... wait, wait, I like boobs. Peri. Peri is hot. But Hines is also not bad to look at. Where was I? Oh, shipping. It's fun to read Curly's shipping and I guess the two have a certain chemistry from what little was in the episode of them together but I can't get behind the shipping myself. (Also, sorry Curly, Jamie looked way too disappointed at that Spanish lady when they parted)

This is only my second Two serial, but Two and Jamie are so touchy-feely and adorable together. It's not even that I think Two is attractive but that they have so much chemistry.
And don't worry, Jamie is hot, Peri is hot even though she looks like a hippie reject.
It's okay if you don't see the pairing too, I see what I see (or wish I saw); really I just thin shipping's fun no matter how much I'm behind the pairing. For the most part.
And as for not mentioning Jamie's disappointment I did see it, but when I did that review I was on a train, hit play and only stopped for dinner or to go into some depth about the skeevy dialogue. By the time I'd finished typing something just before that scene, the unkiss was over and I didn't think it was all that important in the wider scale of things.


Overall... it looks like a fun episode? Six is smug but entertainingly so, expect that bit after the meditation astral thing was pretty random to me (contact to old incarnations? btw, for a moment there I thought the Doctors might have swapped bodies. I think that would have been hilarious, possibly)
I'm curious how it will end... will there be episode three soon or should I just watch it on my own? I'm willing to wait a week or so but if you are too busy to get it done in a month I might as well watch it on my own.

I'm partway through the episode right now. Depending on things (i.e. what I'm reading and watching right now) it'll be up either tonight or tomorrow.
It gets dark. As in, I was seriously contemplating referencing The Silence of the Lambs in the earlier serials, now I pretty much have to.


Also, I (again, I think) take offense at that "proper measurements" comment. I might just be a simpleton but I like to convert a unit into another by multiplying with powers of ten instead... whatever complicated number you need to get from inch to mile to foot to yard.

I grew up with my grandparents for a substantial part of my toddlerhood, and imperial measurements are so common at least where I am, that it wasn't until I started proper school that I learnt that there was a metric system.
I'm very good at doing simple conversions, and given that the majority of people I know still given height, weight and distance measurements in imperial means that the metric system really doesn't get much of a look in. That combined with the usual jocular derision this country has for metric measurements (probably combined with resentment) means that metric is a butt monkey for quite a few people, myself included. I apologise if that offends you.

Also:
One inch = 2.5 cm.
Twelve inches = one foot/30cm
Three feet = one yard/90cm
1760 yards = one mile
One mile = 1.6km

OR
8km = 5 miles
4km = 2.5 miles
2 km = 1.25 miles
1 km = 0.675 miles

Very complicated indeed, but once it's pounded into your head like multiplication tables you never forget it.

[KillianHawkeye]

The St. Johns Ambulance sticker? That's been on the tardis since 1963, it just kinda disappeared after the Hartnell left

Hartnell was the FIRST Doctor. If the sign vanished after he left, and didn't reappear until Matt Smith took the role, it has hardly been there "since 1963."

And regardless of it existing in the past, it was missing all throughout the revived series until Series 5 (as I said before). That also doesn't change that it was completely irrelevant to the episode.

[navar100]

Hartnell was the FIRST Doctor. If the sign vanished after he left, and didn't reappear until Matt Smith took the role, it has hardly been there "since 1963."

And regardless of it existing in the past, it was missing all throughout the revived series until Series 5 (as I said before). That also doesn't change that it was completely irrelevant to the episode.

Maybe, but we know the season is building up to the finale when we're told the Doctor's name would be revealed. Also, "Doctor Who" is celebrating 50 years. The sign could be an in-joke to reference the First Doctor. It was a couple of seasons ago the Doctor showed a library card and it had Hartnell's picture on it. Most likely no relation to now at the time and was just a wave to the fans, but it's nice to speculate.

The wonder is, are we going to be pleasantly surprised the finale will be a mutiple-Doctor episode with Eccelston and Tennant appearing? Kudos if they can get McCoy and Davidson as well. I really doubt the Bakers would be interested for known reasons. Other surprises could be knowing who that female Time Lord who posed like a Weeping Angel is. Perhaps Romana returns from E-Space. Maybe the Doctor runs into granddaughter Susan on Earth. Maybe that female Time Lord is Romana or Susan. Heh, perhaps we'll see Jack Harkness transform into The Face of Boe.

Edit: Of course Paul McGann as well!

[dehro]

thoughts on the episode now that I got to see it.
apologies if I say stuff that has been said before, I avoided the spoilers for obvious reasons.

it seems to me that this particular villanious plot was never really well thought out. by the looks of it, they were looking for particularily bright people (computer savvyness being a bonus?).. how many bright people would click on a random net or be unable to connect their computer to their home-net before resorting to clicking on random nets to see what it does or to try and get online despite their own connection not working?
the mechanics of the spoonheads.. seriously.. how many people would just stand there in amazed wonderment instead of
a)freak out and hide behind a couch
b)lash out at something that seems to be perceived as a menace
seems to me that the only way this could work is if the prey was already somewhat mind-controlled to begin with.

miss Kizmet seems to have been under the thrall of the creepy enemy for decades..most of her life.. it's a bit odd that this was noticed only now, and how did it work back in the day before internet (or computers)?

the enemy seems to have a lot of potential, but this particular menace never felt really..menacing. also, how does an evil organisation focussing on keeping tabs on one enemy through technology, doesn't notice that that bit of technology has gone rogue? I didn't see it coming at first..but I'm not sat in a roomfull of minions with computers. if I were controlling the minds of a specific number of people through a beacon of some kind, I think I'd notice if said beacon upped and left the building on its own accord or under someone else's control.
I did like the dialogue, as I most often do with Dr Who, though I was puzzled by one bit:
I don't get the "I invented the quadricycle" joke (or was it a quadbike?)

all of the above notwhitstanding, I did enjoy the episode and think the companion has potential (also, I quite like the actress portraying her).
I am wondering though.. the Dr.'s attitude, though warranted by having lost her twice already..seems leaning towards the romantic inclinations.. which is odd.. he's a widower of sorts.. a couple of times over, one not so far away in time (yes, I realize the irony).. and he seemed to have taken a bit of a turn for the dark/gloomy side.. yet he's now acting like a schoolboy faced with the prospect of imminent snogging.
Clara herself seems to be rather lighthearted. maybe it's just how she's portrayed, maybe that's how she was written and if so, is it a deliberate choice and done to give her room to expand in as of yet unplanned fashion, or is it a deliberate choice to somehow hide a deeper truth to her?

I guess it's easy to forget that this is, after all, a show geared towards children, and that sometimes thinking too deeply about it just ruins the fun. looking for a deeper meaning might be out of place if it turns out that there isn't necessarily one.

that said.. Run you clever boy and remember...
a bit of a "Bad Wolf moment", anyone?

on a sidenote, I'd love to see an episode of Dr Who written by Terry Pratchett

[Kato]

on a sidenote, I'd love to see an episode of Dr Who written by Terry Pratchett
I think thatÄs something a LOT of people would love to get but I'm afraid chances are pretty slim. We get our Gaiman treat once in a blue moon but while awesome it's just not the same...


At least it's good pub quiz trivia. And maybe good for your nerd cred.
Yeah, that sure is true.


And the annoying thing is I kind of recognise the reference too.
Ah, sorry.


Dastari.
And I think the idea behind the diary continuation was that he was either mind-controlled into writing an entry or two to frame the TIme Lords for the massacre. Or he was actually evil all along and did everything to frame the Time Lords etc. etc.
Hm, I forgot that "framing angle" but it seems too much of an after thought considering their whole plan is aiming at something else (it seems) But it's a reasonable explanation.



I'm partway through the episode right now. Depending on things (i.e. what I'm reading and watching right now) it'll be up either tonight or tomorrow.
It gets dark. As in, I was seriously contemplating referencing The Silence of the Lambs in the earlier serials, now I pretty much have to.
Well, I'm looking forward to it, then.



That combined with the usual jocular derision this country has for metric measurements (probably combined with resentment) means that metric is a butt monkey for quite a few people, myself included. I apologise if that offends you.
Sorry, I wasn't really offended, just teasing. can understand how you'd be attached to the system you grew up with. And while I'm pretty convinced the metric ystem is superior (:smalltongue:) you can of course use whatever you are comfortable with. (I do have a rough idea myself how most units (not only length) translate and if I really care I can aways look it up.)


Heh, perhaps we'll see Jack Harkness transform into The Face of Boe.
minor spoiler.

No Barrowman in the anniversary according to official sources, iirc.

[Dr. Simon]

From what I've read, Nathan-Turner's preferences were for 17 and 18 year old young men, and everything was consentual--it's only a scandal or criminal matter because the legal age of consent for homosexual sex in Britian was 21 at the time. Savile, on the other hand, was into much younger victims, and things were often coerced. So I'd say that Savile was much worse.

Well yes, in fairness to Nathan-Turner I should say that a) Savile took creepy predatory perv to levels beyond anything else going on at the time and b) getting my information from a review of a book that makes allegations is not exactly a strong chain of citation, so I think my drawing a link between the two is a little disingenuous. Any other discussion on the topic is probably not for these boards.

[JediSoth]

There's news on 9 for the 50th anniversary.

No Chris Eccelston for the 50th anniversary special. (http://metro.co.uk/2013/04/05/christopher-eccleston-turns-down-doctor-who-50th-return-3584984/)

[Archonic Energy]

The St. Johns Ambulance sticker? That's been on the tardis since 1963, it just kinda disappeared after the Hartnell left

sorry, as a member of St John (http://www.sja.org.uk/sja/default.aspx) it kinda gets my attention when people say/type it incorrectly.

[Androgeus]

sorry, as a member of St John (http://www.sja.org.uk/sja/default.aspx) it kinda gets my attention when people say/type it incorrectly.

Take it up with Tardis wiki, that's where I copied the spelling from :smalltongue:

[Archonic Energy]

Take it up with Tardis wiki, that's where I copied the spelling from :smalltongue:

Figures. A wiki can't even get something right when it's in black and white in front of them.

Anyway. How long will it be before she dies again. I would have liked a companion that died every episode... like Kenny... or Jack.

[Kato]

Anyway. How long will it be before she dies again. I would have liked a companion that died every episode... like Kenny... or Jack.
Must... not... make... Rory joke...

As a non-Brit I never heard of St John Ambulance or Bells or such things before... so it would have been entirely lost on me.

[dps]

Must... not... make... Rory joke...

As a non-Brit I never heard of St John Ambulance or Bells or such things before... so it would have been entirely lost on me.

I'd would have thought most people, Brits or not, would have heard of bells.

[Calemyr]

On the plus side, Curly has one good reason to like Doctor #6: His first action in his regeneration was to attempt to strangle Peri. Possibly for upstaging 5 in his death scene.

Since the only old-school Doctor Who I own is Trial of a Time Lord, 6 is the only one I have much exposure to. When it comes to throwing temper tantrums and making big speeches, 10 could take serious lessons from 6. He's the loudest, most arrogant, and volatile Doctor so far. The fact that he isn't nearly as annoying as 10's worst moments (Tennant was capable of some great stuff, but the writing for his era could get REALLY bad) is really weird. The thing is that 6 is treated appropriately by the people - they get annoyed at him, they call him out on it, or they pointedly ignore him. He also has Peri and Mel as his companions, proof that the universe was already punishing him for recruiting Rose.

This 50th special is starting to sound underwhelming. A two Doctors story is interesting and all that, but one thing the series has really needed was something that really connected it to the original, and I don't mean just reusing props and costumes. I was really hoping for someone who could play 1 (Hartnel) for us, because he's oddly my personal favorite.

Of course, the Hobbit proves Sylvester McCoy (7) has some life left in him, so maybe Radagast can save this special?

[dps]

The thing is that 6 is treated appropriately by the people - they get annoyed at him, they call him out on it, or they pointedly ignore him.

That was the one thing the writers did right with Six--when he was a jerk, he'd get called out on it. Probably because they were deliberately writing him to be a bit of a jerk--when other Doctors behave badly, the writers generally didn't intend for the behaviour to be perceived as bad. I know there have been a few other times the Doctor has been called out on things, but except for a few times with One, the only instance I can think of offhand is with Ten in "The Waters of Mars".

[Androgeus]

Moffat talks about what would happen if Tennant had stayed on for series 5 (http://tennantnews.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/steven-moffat-on-what-could-have.html)

[Sunken Valley]

Review of the Rings of Ak-ha-ten.



Stuff I liked
The big fancy alien planet was awesome. All those creatures were really cool.

Clara Oswald > Amy Pond. Both this and Beast Below had similarities as the "alien planet where companion saves the day". That part of the story was better than Beast Below.

A behind the scenes complaint I had was I couldn't see the Doctor really taking this companion on. He only wants her on his team to solve his mystery. This is a plot point now.

Special effects were mostly good.

Matt Smith's Speech!



Stuff I did not like
I'm giving the Doctor following Clara around as a little girl a cursory mention because its that creepy. At least he was called out on it.

That face of the Old One reminded me too much of Galactus from FF2 Movie. Poor show of effects for that.

The Radio Times advertised the Mummy and the Vigil. Both of whom were wasted in this ep.

The TARDIS can't translate most of the languages. Plot Hole?

Why couldn't they use the TARDIS to port Merry on board when she was taken?

Merry was not one of the better child actors. She also couldn't sing that good. When you have a song based episode, you get a child who can sing. I don't care if she's the daughter of Aled Jones but she can't sing.

The singing in the episode wasn't that good. It especially felt pointless when the singing accomplished nothing when the Old One woke up.

The Doctor blew up the sun. He doomed the people! You can't live without a sun (at least Merry can't). You Doomed the Rings to an Eternity of Darkness! Saved them all indeed.




7/10

Ice Warriors Next Week!

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Moffat talks about what would happen if Tennant had stayed on for series 5 (http://tennantnews.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/steven-moffat-on-what-could-have.html)
That would've actually been pretty cool. So the first time she meets him is the last time he meets her as Ten.

[Sunken Valley]

Guys, you do know there was an episode today? Right?

[Dienekes]

That would've actually been pretty cool. So the first time she meets him is the last time he meets her as Ten.

Ehh already did that with River.

[Eldan]

After some Skype talk, I think I've finally identified what my main problems with a lot of the recent episodes are.

1: The Doctor is not challenged.
2: No proper setup of the danger he is facing.

A lot of episodes feel like someone cut out the middle part of the script and replaced it with random scenes of the doctor being goofy. A bad guy is introduced, the doctor does some things, we cut to the end and he waves the bad guy away. I don't like it.

[Sunken Valley]

After some Skype talk, I think I've finally identified what my main problems with a lot of the recent episodes are.

1: The Doctor is not challenged.
2: No proper setup of the danger he is facing.

A lot of episodes feel like someone cut out the middle part of the script and replaced it with random scenes of the doctor being goofy. A bad guy is introduced, the doctor does some things, we cut to the end and he waves the bad guy away. I don't like it.

Isn't that every Dr Who episode since 2005 except finales?

[Eldan]

Not really. I think all the best episodes have the Doctor occasionally threatened, confused, running or in despair. I cna't remember when I last saw Smith do any of those things.


Also: finales? Not really. I mean, I can barely remember last season's finale, but I certainly don't remember any real threats.

Edit: thinking about some of hte better episodes. Dalek. Family of Blood. Silence in the Library. The Doctor Dances. There was at least some real danger in all of them. And proper setup.

[Sunken Valley]

I cna't remember when I last saw Smith do any of those things.


Beast Below. The Lodger, Pandorica Two-parter. Astronaut two parter. Let's Kill Hitler. Closing Time. That's still pretty low compared to the great Tennant. And then there's Eccleston. Also, Blink doesn't have the Doctor doing any of those things you listed. Nor does Impossible Planet Two-parter. And they're some of the greatest who stories of all time.

Finales: I refer mainly to the RTD ones. The Doctor choosing Dalek destruction or world destruction. The Doctor losing Rose. The Doctor seeing his friends become CURLERS violent users of weapons. The Doctor being the man-dog of the other member of his race for a year!

[Dienekes]

Hmm, from this season (agreed on the opinion that I think it's a weak season), I think the only real threats were in the Dalek episode and Angels Take Manhattan. Everything else, nah. Now I'm a fan of the Doctor acting goofy, but yeah some harsher threats need to be there.

The biggest example I think is still The Power of Three. Almost all of it was goofing around, which was great, but with no real villainous build or anything. Which is sad because the villain in question actually had potential for being a great threat, a boogie-man from the Time Lords legends that is actually older and crazier than they are. Could work. They did nothing with the concept. Should have been a 2 parter.

[Eldan]

Hmm...
Let's see...


Beast Below. The Lodger, Pandorica Two-parter. Astronaut two parter. Let's Kill Hitler. Closing Time. That's still pretty low compared to the great Tennant. And then there's Eccleston. Also, Blink doesn't have the Doctor doing any of those things you listed. Nor does Impossible Planet Two-parter. And they're some of the greatest who stories of all time.

Beast Below: really don't remember any details of that episode.
Lodger: I'll admit that it was fun, but really nothing near the top.
The Pandorica: pretty bad.
Astronaut: really bad.
Hitler: eh. One or two funny scenes.
Closing time: see hitler. Overall, not great.

Blink: I'll have to expand my definition. Danger to someone, then. The angels were plenty dangerous.

But I guess I'll have to expand my definition.


Power of Three is hte best example of what I called an episode with the middle cut out. Everything about it felt like the first ten minutes of an episode stretched out to 35 minutes, with a quick five minute resolution stitched on at the last moment because they ran out of time.

[Sunken Valley]

Hmm...
Let's see...



Beast Below: really don't remember any details of that episode.
Lodger: I'll admit that it was fun, but really nothing near the top.
The Pandorica: pretty bad.
Astronaut: really bad.
Hitler: eh. One or two funny scenes.
Closing time: see hitler. Overall, not great.

Blink: I'll have to expand my definition. Danger to someone, then. The angels were plenty dangerous.

But I guess I'll have to expand my definition.


Power of Three is hte best example of what I called an episode with the middle cut out. Everything about it felt like the first ten minutes of an episode stretched out to 35 minutes, with a quick five minute resolution stitched on at the last moment because they ran out of time.

Oh those aren't the good episodes. Those are the one's where he's doing the things you said he should.

These are the good episodes

Eleventh Hour
Vampires of Venice
Amy's Choice
Vincent and the Doctor
Doctor's Wife
Girl Who Waited
God Complex
Town called Mercy

[Eldan]

Ah, well. More rephrasing. Those things don't automatically make a good episode. But they were missing from a lot of recent ones when they should have been there.

What was the eleventh hour about?

Anyway. God Complex had a threatening enemy. In Girl Who Waited, Amy was the enemy.

[dehro]

this last episode left me rather underwhelmed.

[Weezer]

I'd say I give the episode a 7/10, not bad but a bit below average. The big thing bothering me is that the Doctor just left 7 planets with no sun. A pretty major oversight on the writers part... Did the Doctor's little speech remind any one else a little bit of the tears in rain speech from Blade Runner? Oh,and the Susan callback was excellent.

[Eldan]

Also don't like the new intro. It's ugly. Like the Doctor's face in it, though. Nice touch of retro.

Edit: and I appreciate pocket watches. Pocket watches hvae class. I have a pocket watch. No class, though. Never had that. Wish I had a vest to propely wear my watch with.

Writing as I watch. Seven minutes in. Great episode. Fantastic. Beginning bit slow. Like planet vista. Beautiful. Love market scenes too. always my favourite in any medium, market scenes. So much potential for interesting details.


Yup. Beautiful. Magical. Wonderful. Would get a perfect mark, except Smith's emotional outburst at the end ruined it. Not well acted. Did not buy it. Still good episode. Man tries to ham, can not ham. Maybe a bit much sappy crap in the first few and last few minutes. Don't care, had market scene full of aliens to look at.


Edit: what was bad with the child actress? Thought she was rather convincing. Also couldn't find fault with her singing, but have musical ear of a particularly tone-deaf brick.

[Dienekes]

So watched it.
Oh dear God was the beginning cheesy as all Hell. "Oh this is the leaf that had fallen and if any number of things happened we wouldn't have met! Look at this amazing leaf! I found it for you!"

I almost hurled.

Most the stuff in the marketplace was fun enough. Child actor was a child actor, still can't stand them (except Hit-Girl from Kick-Ass).

Then my tv broke and I don't know what happened for a bit. I got to the part where the girl was being absorbed into the meteor-temple, then when I got the tv back up and running the Doctor was using his screw driver to force 3 gimp-suit robots back while Clara and the girl run. And apparently the ugly thing was an alarm clock. I feel like I would have enjoyed the part I missed a lot.

Then they brought the leaf back at the end, more sappy stuff about being the most important leaf in the history of man or some such nonsense. I have no idea why it would suddenly fill the God-sun up. Something about the leaf representing all potential? I have no idea. Still incredibly cheesy. Though I thought the Doctors speech was ok.

Also, if the God-sun is full after eating a leaf, couldn't it stop eating the leaf and go on to consume other things? And why did eating it make it blow up? And what happens to everyone now that their sun blew up?

So all in all, average episode that could have really cut down on the sap. Way too much sap. So yeah, another lackluster episode for the season.

[Thufir]

After some Skype talk, I think I've finally identified what my main problems with a lot of the recent episodes are.

1: The Doctor is not challenged.
2: No proper setup of the danger he is facing.

A lot of episodes feel like someone cut out the middle part of the script and replaced it with random scenes of the doctor being goofy. A bad guy is introduced, the doctor does some things, we cut to the end and he waves the bad guy away. I don't like it.

Hmm. To some extent, I agree, but I'm certain I don't find it to be an issue to the extent you do.


Isn't that every Dr Who episode since 2005 except finales?

Except finales? The finales are some of the worst culprits for the Doctor 'waving the bad guy away'. Granted, they do have the threat fairly well set up, but that makes the handwave all the worse. Though, I suppose, that's a different argument, which we've had before.


Hmm, from this season (agreed on the opinion that I think it's a weak season), I think the only real threats were in the Dalek episode and Angels Take Manhattan. Everything else, nah. Now I'm a fan of the Doctor acting goofy, but yeah some harsher threats need to be there.

The biggest example I think is still The Power of Three. Almost all of it was goofing around, which was great, but with no real villainous build or anything. Which is sad because the villain in question actually had potential for being a great threat, a boogie-man from the Time Lords legends that is actually older and crazier than they are. Could work. They did nothing with the concept. Should have been a 2 parter.

I do feel the first half of series 7 was perhaps a bit lacklustre (Though I'm feeling good about the second half so far), but there were threats. I agree with you about Power of Three though, not enough done with the concept.


This episode?
I liked it. I actually kind of liked the fact that there wasn't that much of a threat. The mummy was a neat bait-and-switch. To compare to Power of Three, in that the threat was underdeveloped and its defeat was fairly handwave-y, but the character moments throughout the episode were really good. In Rings of Akhaten, the threat was finally defeated by the character moments in effect, so it all tied nicely together. Whereas if the mummy had been the threat we would've needed some more running around before we got to the emotional victory, and that would've left less time for the build-up and the wonderment of the Rings and so on, which was the other thing - obviously the times the Doctor goes somewhere and just wanders around not getting into any trouble don't get episodes made of them, but it's still nice to see bits of it.
The whole setting was an interesting one - the religion with seemingly everything based around song, all the aliens gathered together there, the episode had a wonderful look to it.
The value placed on emotions and memories was obviously a central theme of the episode - using them as currency, sacrificing them to the Old God/Grandfather, and the very concept of the Queen of Ages - and it was incredibly evocative, though it could perhaps have been brought home more to the Doctor - his screwdriver wasn't the only precious thing he had which he could've given up, he was wearing the glasses at several points. But of course he wouldn't give those up, that being the point. The Doctor clings to his memories, I wouldn't be surprised if the TARDIS was full of mementoes of past companions, which if brought up would have put his big speech to the Old God in more context and lent it extra weight.
Finally, ongoing build-up. It being the 50th anniversary year, a passing reference to Susan was nice to have. And the exploration of Clara's past, while obviously relevant to the resolution at the end with the leaf, obviously also feeds into the mystery of Clara. As does her speculation that the TARDIS "doesn't like [her]." And of course the Doctor's speech to Grandfather touching on secret knowledge which must never be spoken is clearly feeding into the Doctor's myth arc leading towards Trenzalore, quite apart from just being a cool speech in and of itself.
The episode was pretty good for being quotable, actually, and in a manner very expressive of the characters - that speech, the Doctor's other speech about the uniqueness of Merry, Clara's father about the leaf, Clara about the leaf, and the Doctor giving us yet another quote to sum up how he operates: "We do not walk away."

[navar100]

It's about time they do a show that does not take place on Earth, modern times or not. They've been leaving out the Space part when traveling through Time and Space.

Nice wave to the fans the Doctor mentioning bringing his granddaughter to the Rings. They're really building up to the anniversary finale. Still hoping Susan does make an appearance, probably regenerated.

[dps]

Did the Doctor's little speech remind any one else a little bit of the tears in rain speech from Blade Runner? Oh,and the Susan callback was excellent.

Yes, I've been surprised that no one else had pointed out the similarity of the speech the Doctor gave to Roy Batty's final words. Incidentally, I've read that parts of that Roy's monologue were ad-libbed by Rutger Hauer.

And I agree, I liked the Doctor mentioning that he had been there a long time ago with his granddaughter.

Overall, I liked this episode quite a bit. It wasn't one of the best ever, but it was pretty good.

[LokeyITP]

I enjoy Beast Below a great deal even though the main plot depends on an end reveal that is lackluster, and should have been better. Tone and the bit pieces are just so much fun in that one.

Beast Below split up the Doctor and Companion more organically and had them both involved in the plot as well as getting into trouble in different ways. Yah, the Doctor will always hare off after whatever catches his interest, but new companion, it should take a little longer for him to just leave them in a perilous situation :)

My first thought was that the problems I see are in execution rather than concept for the first time since forever, but that's probably not fair. To make it a stronger story:
There's a twist anyway, so why not hinge the ep on that a little more. Treat the mummy as a problem to solve/baddy to defeat, do so, then you get the oh wait, now we're really in trouble moment. BUT...I don't you probably don't want the Doctor to flub things that badly on the first outing, even though what they did was for the best.

Alright, in sum it's fun and pretty well done, but I don't see much to do with the concept without some major script surgery to make it work better or accomplish the story needs in the spoiler. Also where's the sexism?!?!

[factotum]

Re: last night's episode:


*Very* slow to get going, interesting enough in the middle, but then a total cop-out at the end. It was within a hair's breadth of "we killed the Big Bad through the power of Love".


I don't think I'd give it better than a 5/10, and that would be extremely generous...it gets some plus points for the little girl's performance (Aled Jones' daughter, fact fans!) and the peeks at Clara's back story.

[Weezer]

Yes, I've been surprised that no one else had pointed out the similarity of the speech the Doctor gave to Roy Batty's final words. Incidentally, I've read that parts of that Roy's monologue were ad-libbed by Rutger Hauer.

And I agree, I liked the Doctor mentioning that he had been there a long time ago with his granddaughter.

Overall, I liked this episode quite a bit. It wasn't one of the best ever, but it was pretty good.

Yeah, large chunks of it were improvised. For anyone that's interested, here's the original script version:

"I've known adventures, seen places you people will never see, I've been Offworld and back... frontiers! I've stood on the back deck of a blinker bound for the Plutition Camps with sweat in my eyes watching the stars fight on the shoulder of Orion...I've felt wind in my hair, riding test boats off the black galaxies and seen an attack fleet burn like a match and disappear. I've seen it, felt it...!"

Definitely better in the improvised version.

[theangelJean]

I thought this episode was okay, but unfortunately my immediate impression after it finished was "Why weren't there consequences? There should have been consequences!" In other words, plot holes...


Firstly, what did the "god" actually take? And why was it okay for him to take it from the Doctor and not from Mary, who had been especially given the stories of her people for this exact purpose?

The discussion about "eating souls" made it seem like Mary would stop being Mary. Or something fundamental about her would no longer exist. Instead what ended up happening was that the "god" ended up "taking" some memories from the Doctor. What does that actually mean? Does the Doctor still have those memories? If not, does that mean that he's lost a part of himself?

Either way, could Mary have simply given up the stories of her people with no need for the Doctor's intervention? If she still knows them afterwards then nobody has lost anything, and if she didn't remember the stories afterwards it would still seem to me like a better bargain, as they aren't 'her' experiences and don't necessarily affect her as much as the Doctor's memories affect him.

Or has his soul been eaten and we'll find this develops later in the series?

The other main thing that bothered me, same as Weezer, was the apparent implosion of the "god" which appeared to be the star around which the rings orbited. I thought one of the things that Mary was babbling about while the Mummy was waking up was the fear that the "god" would wander off in search of other food if they didn't give it to him. Now it looks like it's just gone. What happens to that whole planetary system, is it going to just dissipate off into space and freeze to absolute zero? And the citizens of the place were grateful?

I guess the writer of this episode isn't a science-fiction writer usually, but I thought surely a script editor or someone at the read-through or someone involved in the show would have picked up either of these issues...
end rant...


There were other things about the episode that were interesting, and I'm guessing they'll come up later or form part of the larger picture. One thing my husband picked up on right away, that I don't know if anyone has mentioned, is that

the TARDIS translation circuits didn't always kick in for Clara. He noticed right away that the some of the alien languages weren't understandable to her or the audience, even before they made a joke of it. I'm wondering if it's connected to the way the TARDIS locked her out (although that said, I can't remember if he got around to giving her a key this time). Then again, she and Mary seemed to understand each other perfectly well...



Yeah, large chunks of it were improvised. For anyone that's interested, here's the original script version:

"I've known adventures, seen places you people will never see, I've been Offworld and back... frontiers! I've stood on the back deck of a blinker bound for the Plutition Camps with sweat in my eyes watching the stars fight on the shoulder of Orion...I've felt wind in my hair, riding test boats off the black galaxies and seen an attack fleet burn like a match and disappear. I've seen it, felt it...!"

Definitely better in the improvised version.


I might be wrong, but are you still talking about Blade Runner here? This particular discussion isn't about the speech in the current episode, right? (Just wanted to know. Not a criticism.)

[Kato]

New episode thoughts. In short: I didn't really like it. I didn't hate it, but I didn't like it.


Reason in short? Sap. So much sap. The intro was sappy, the whole system was based around sappiness (a currency based on trading items with emotional value? Are they all telepaths or what?) and the BigBad was defeated with the power of love. Not literally but close enough as... someone said. If they would have made one, tiny change in the Doctor's big speech towards the god I would have been much more forgiving... I'm too lazy to go back for the exact quote but it went along the lines of
"All the things that have been [his memories] are so much less than everything that should have been [Clara's time with her mother]." Okay, call me a nitpicker, but if he'd said "could", all the possibilites, all the infinite possible futures that might be attached to that leaf (or any other item someone holds bear) are much bigger than the 1000 years the Doctor has lived (btw, did he just copy them instead of eat them? Otherwise the Doctor would be an empty shell, wouldn't he?) are much more worth, possibly but not "should" :smallmad: Who is he to say what should and what should not have happened?

Oh, also, at the beginning, when he was telling Clara how they believe all life in the universe originated in their system and called it "a nice story"? Bull***. It's not even a story. It's saying our system is more special than any other. That's nationalism... Specism... Systemism...? Something like that. The Doctor shouldn't praise it.



the TARDIS translation circuits didn't always kick in for Clara. He noticed right away that the some of the alien languages weren't understandable to her or the audience, even before they made a joke of it. I'm wondering if it's connected to the way the TARDIS locked her out (although that said, I can't remember if he got around to giving her a key this time). Then again, she and Mary seemed to understand each other perfectly well...

I also noticed that... I hope it's true and not just so Matt could make funny barking sounds...

Oh, least I forget... "Did you see her?" "Who?" The little girl that looks like a child of their species opposed to anything else around? Duh?!

Overall... it was okay, but it could have been done better. Sometimes I wish they'd just not have any threat and just have the characters explore a new world and encounter new cultures... The threat did kind of work but... meh. It just wasn't great.

The child was... not a great actress or singer, yeah. I did like the general singing but it would have been nicer if it had served more of a point to the plot.


Also... that was a pretty dark sun. There was an awful lot of air in space. And as people have mentioned... I'm sure destroying a sun won't do the system any harm, at all.


My personal best moment of the episode? THE PREVIEW! Liam Cunningham! Davos Seaworth will be a captain in Doctor Who! This is giving me much more joy than it has any right to do.

[Eldan]

Thinking about it again, there might have been a few points were bit more exposition would have helped. From the moped salesman's reaction, I did assume everyone in the system was telepathic to some degree. After that, the Mummy, the God and the entire religion made a lot more sense.

Also, an explanation on what taking memories actually did would have been nice. Everyone was afraid of it, but the Doctor didn't seem to care after it happened to him. The leaf, on the other hand, was destroyed.

[dps]

FWIW, I thought that the "god" wasn't the system's sun, but a gas giant like Jupiter or Saturn. It was a ring system, after all, and when I hear "ring system", I think gas giant. The threat was that it would ignite into a sun. And at the end, I didn't think it disappeared, but rather somehow shrank down to the size of a rocky planet like Earth or Mars. If that's the case, then its mass would still be the same and the system would still have a sun somewhere, so no huge problem for the locals.

[Eldan]

Might be. That would be a rather bright gas giant, though.

Stars could probably have rings. Like really dense asteroid belts.

[KillianHawkeye]

I like how the Doctor's idea of a background check is to go back and see how your parents met, then stalk you through all of the important, formative events of your life up until this point.

[Dienekes]

I like how the Doctor's idea of a background check is to go back and see how your parents met, then stalk you through all of the important, formative events of your life up until this point.

Normally, I would have called that insane and creepy. However, in this specific instance it actually does make sense to observe Clara's entire life to see what is special about her.

[dps]

Normally, I would have called that insane and creepy. However, in this specific instance it actually does make sense to observe Clara's entire life to see what is special about her.

I agree it makes sense, but it's still a bit creepy.

[Thufir]

I like how the Doctor's idea of a background check is to go back and see how your parents met, then stalk you through all of the important, formative events of your life up until this point.

Not all. They'd be too difficult to find and the Doctor gets bored too easily.

[Friv]

There were other things about the episode that were interesting, and I'm guessing they'll come up later or form part of the larger picture. One thing my husband picked up on right away, that I don't know if anyone has mentioned, is that

the TARDIS translation circuits didn't always kick in for Clara. He noticed right away that the some of the alien languages weren't understandable to her or the audience, even before they made a joke of it. I'm wondering if it's connected to the way the TARDIS locked her out (although that said, I can't remember if he got around to giving her a key this time). Then again, she and Mary seemed to understand each other perfectly well...


I'm going to have to look back to check, but...
Does the TARDIS translation circuit work on sufficiently non-human languages? I have some memory that particularly "alien" aliens in the past have been understandable by the Doctor, but not by his companions, and tended to assume that it can't translate languages that people can't think correctly.

[Cen]

As far as I remember in NuWho the only laungage that wasn't translated by TARDIS was Judoon

[Hopeless]

Not sure if this counts as a spoiler so apologies if you disagree:smallredface:

I would have liked a short story dealing with what happened when the Doctor brought his grand daughter to the Rings of Akhenaten if only so they can fill in the details absent from this story.

I assumed that after consuming what the doctor unleashed upon it that leaf was just as tad too much and it doesn't have anything to deal with the indigestion!:smallbiggrin:

Hmm would have made a better scene if Doc 11 pulled a Doc10 moment about his past ala the Voyage of the Damned Xmas special and then reveal it was already being exorcised out of that gas giant before Clara turned up with her "leaf"...

Now had they shown a scene after that where the doctor arranges for her parents to receive that leaf designed especially to finish off the bad of this episode... nah background checks aside that might have been a bit too much!

[The Extinguisher]

The Hoth's language wasn't for us, but Martha seemed to understand them.

More likely they just wanted an excuse to have the Doctor barking.

[Mauve Shirt]

This episode was pretty lame. It is nice to see some aliens not menacing England once in a while.

I figured the language barrier and locked doors meant that the TARDIS still thinks Clara is a little weird.

Also, @Kato and the assertion that he shouldn't call their belief a "nice story" because it's "systemism" or what have you: The Christian God created the heavens and the earth and all stars and planets in the universe too. :smalltongue: It's not like The Doctor affirmed their religion to be true or anything, quite the opposite.

[Kato]

I forgot to agree with from what I gathered is the general idea on the beginning... Yeah, it's again creepy-stalkerish but does stalk her to figure out if something's wrong. So I'm willing to give him a pass on that.


This episode was pretty lame. It is nice to see some aliens not menacing England once in a while.
Sorry... is it me or do these two kind of contradict a bit? Or at least require an "although" somwhere in there?


Also, @Kato and the assertion that he shouldn't call their belief a "nice story" because it's "systemism" or what have you: The Christian God created the heavens and the earth and all stars and planets in the universe too. :smalltongue: It's not like The Doctor affirmed their religion to be true or anything, quite the opposite.
Okay, not to dwell on my (lack of) religious belief, and it's not really a big deal to me but while the way 11 says it it certainly doesn't sound like he believes it he does think it is a "nice story". And putting everything else about all kinds of creation myths aside, at least most of them are actual "stories" and not just "our people are the center on the universe, deal with it". (Though, that is what is behind many but they are at least kind of wrapped up in a nice-ish package. Doesn't make them any more plausible/true/less "systemist" - I need to turn that into a word now - but it makes it stories and not just statements.)
I'm pretty sure somehow these aliens do have an actual myth with a story behind it (on some level probably the writers didn't even think of) but "life originated from here" is just not "a nice story" in my opinion and him saying so kind of annoyed me. But really.. it's not even worth discussing in the big picture.

(Even Douglas Adams' creation myth of the "Big Sneeze" is more of a story than what the Doctor told us there. At least that one is funny :smalltongue:)

[Androgeus]

I'd say I give the episode a 7/10, not bad but a bit below average.

Shouldn't a bit below average be a 4/10? Silly top ended review systems.
Personally I liked it, but an episode has to be terrible for me to dislike it.

Anyone notice that in the last two episodes Clara has been somehow mentally linked to some entity. Last week she became part of that cloud thing (I guess one could call it a Web of Fear), and this week she let the big angry parasite planet eat the leaf that brought her parents together.


Stuff I did not like
That face of the Old One reminded me too much of Galactus from FF2 Movie. Poor show of effects for that.
I'd like to see you look your best right after you wake up. :smalltongue:

[dehro]

a final nitpick on last week's episode:
I find it a bit lame how the Doctor seems instictively able to manipulate technology when he has to, well enough to completely pull the rug under his enemies' eyes, yet occasionally turns around and declares himself unable to operate machinery when it so happens that there are conveniently other people there who can do it for him
specifically, he's instantly able to hack into the programming of the spoonheads (not to mention the whole cloud thing)..but when it's time to fly a plane, suddenly he doesn't know where to begin... then again, there are two pilots who only need waking up.
I know it makes perfect sense plotwise and that it helps keeping things going at a certain pace.. but it does bug me, now and then.

now this episode...
I'm still trying to understand what the deal/ was with the caged zombie.. it seems to me that its presence was entirely unnecessary.. it's not like they went Silver Surfer and actually gave it something to do other than to scream and work as a rather lame distraction from the main enemy..
I also feel that they've missed a trick with the Doctor's speech.
all other offerings were somehow absorbed by the enemy and pulverized on the spot.. the same shiny stuff interacts with the Doctor when he's delivering his memories and his experiences.. yet he gets to keep them.
for a moment there I was kinda hoping that the offering would actually wipe his memory..and that his companion would be left stranded with a brainwashed Doctor.. now that would have been an awesome development for the rest of the series!
sadly though, the Doctor's offering in fact didn't really mean much in the end.

[Weezer]

Shouldn't a bit below average be a 4/10? Silly top ended review systems.


I'm so used to the grading system in school where a 75 is average that its hard for me to see it as anything else.

[BRC]

a final nitpick on last week's episode:
I find it a bit lame how the Doctor seems instictively able to manipulate technology when he has to, well enough to completely pull the rug under his enemies' eyes, yet occasionally turns around and declares himself unable to operate machinery when it so happens that there are conveniently other people there who can do it for him
specifically, he's instantly able to hack into the programming of the spoonheads (not to mention the whole cloud thing)..but when it's time to fly a plane, suddenly he doesn't know where to begin... then again, there are two pilots who only need waking up.
I know it makes perfect sense plotwise and that it helps keeping things going at a certain pace.. but it does bug me, now and then.


Digital technology appears to be his plaything. He has the Sonic, which is very good at interfacing with any sort of computer, and when you get down to it most earth-computers are fundamentally fairly similar.

Flying a plane is a whole different beast. Flying a plane isn't being good with technology, it's being good with Airplanes.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Digital technology appears to be his plaything. He has the Sonic, which is very good at interfacing with any sort of computer, and when you get down to it most earth-computers are fundamentally fairly similar.

Flying a plane is a whole different beast. Flying a plane isn't being good with technology, it's being good with Airplanes.
Good point, actually. Definitely not a tech skill.

[KillianHawkeye]

He probably could have sonic'd the autopilot, though. But that wouldn't have been as exciting.

[navar100]

I forgot to agree with from what I gathered is the general idea on the beginning... Yeah, it's again creepy-stalkerish but does stalk her to figure out if something's wrong. So I'm willing to give him a pass on that.


Sorry... is it me or do these two kind of contradict a bit? Or at least require an "although" somwhere in there?


Okay, not to dwell on my (lack of) religious belief, and it's not really a big deal to me but while the way 11 says it it certainly doesn't sound like he believes it he does think it is a "nice story". And putting everything else about all kinds of creation myths aside, at least most of them are actual "stories" and not just "our people are the center on the universe, deal with it". (Though, that is what is behind many but they are at least kind of wrapped up in a nice-ish package. Doesn't make them any more plausible/true/less "systemist" - I need to turn that into a word now - but it makes it stories and not just statements.)
I'm pretty sure somehow these aliens do have an actual myth with a story behind it (on some level probably the writers didn't even think of) but "life originated from here" is just not "a nice story" in my opinion and him saying so kind of annoyed me. But really.. it's not even worth discussing in the big picture.

(Even Douglas Adams' creation myth of the "Big Sneeze" is more of a story than what the Doctor told us there. At least that one is funny :smalltongue:)

So your lack of religious belief means no one should find beauty in the story of others' religious belief? Now who's being selfish?

[dehro]

Digital technology appears to be his plaything. He has the Sonic, which is very good at interfacing with any sort of computer, and when you get down to it most earth-computers are fundamentally fairly similar.

Flying a plane is a whole different beast. Flying a plane isn't being good with technology, it's being good with Airplanes.

fair enough, but that was just an example..he does the same in many an episode.. and on occasion he does drive or fly all sorts of vehicles, so.. meh.
anyway, it's absolutely a minor point.

[Kato]

So your lack of religious belief means no one should find beauty in the story of others' religious belief? Now who's being selfish?

No, but what we are told of their story (and probably everything the writers came up with, I dare assume) was "life came from our system." That's not a proper story now, is it? Okay, I'm not a poet myself but I think there should be more to a story than... that. And if we just take this, at face value, no it is not a nice story to me, it's just stupid. It's the same kind of stupid other myths elevate their creation myth about others without the merit of actually being a story.



The Doctor eing unable to fly a plane, at least to the point of pulling back the rudder(?) to pull up... I can forgive some plot cenvenient ignorance but it still bothers me a little if the characters know less then the everyday man would.

[dps]

No, but what we are told of their story (and probably everything the writers came up with, I dare assume) was "life came from our system." That's not a proper story now, is it? Okay, I'm not a poet myself but I think there should be more to a story than... that. And if we just take this, at face value, no it is not a nice story to me, it's just stupid. It's the same kind of stupid other myths elevate their creation myth about others without the merit of actually being a story.



The Doctor eing unable to fly a plane, at least to the point of pulling back the rudder(?) to pull up... I can forgive some plot cenvenient ignorance but it still bothers me a little if the characters know less then the everyday man would.

I figured that there were more details to the story that the Doctor didn't have time to tell Clara right then.

As for the plane, turns out that he did know to pull back the stick (OK, in a modern jet, it's not really just a stick, but anyway), though that's the easy part that a lot of people would know. The real trick is to give it some throttle at the same time (when you pull the nose up, your airspeed drops--if you don't increase the throttle to give the plane more speed, it might drop below its stall speed).

[BRC]

No, but what we are told of their story (and probably everything the writers came up with, I dare assume) was "life came from our system." That's not a proper story now, is it? Okay, I'm not a poet myself but I think there should be more to a story than... that. And if we just take this, at face value, no it is not a nice story to me, it's just stupid. It's the same kind of stupid other myths elevate their creation myth about others without the merit of actually being a story.
I'm willing to believe there was more to the story than that. The Doctor just gave Clara the gist of it rather than launching into, considering the culture, is an hours-long song telling the story of how long ago in a distant land I, Aku, the shape shifting master of darkness, unleashed an unspeakable evil. But a foolish samurai warrior, wielding a magic sword, stepped forth to oppose me. Before the final blow was struck I tore open a portal in time and flung him into the future, where my evil is law. Now the fool seeks to return to the past, and undo the future that is AKU.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

No, but what we are told of their story (and probably everything the writers came up with, I dare assume) was "life came from our system." That's not a proper story now, is it? Okay, I'm not a poet myself but I think there should be more to a story than... that. And if we just take this, at face value, no it is not a nice story to me, it's just stupid. It's the same kind of stupid other myths elevate their creation myth about others without the merit of actually being a story.

I don't think that "it's a nice story" was a positive or negative value judgment on their creation myth. Just a neutral "oh, that's nice" sort of thing that let the Doctor dodge the question and remain polite. Because either A) it's not factually true, and the Doctor avoids being an arrogant jerk by saying "yeah, they're totally wrong" (which, I'm very glad he's not like now--we've had enough of that already *AHEM*Ten*AHEM*) or B) it's factually true, and the Doctor's just dodging the question by refusing to confirm a creation myth that gives ultimate importance to the system. Well, I guess there could be C) the Doctor doesn't actually know, and is embarrassed because he doesn't have the answer.

[Hopeless]

I don't think that "it's a nice story" was a positive or negative value judgment on their creation myth. Just a neutral "oh, that's nice" sort of thing that let the Doctor dodge the question and remain polite. Because either A) it's not factually true, and the Doctor avoids being an arrogant jerk by saying "yeah, they're totally wrong" (which, I'm very glad he's not like now--we've had enough of that already *AHEM*Ten*AHEM*) or B) it's factually true, and the Doctor's just dodging the question by refusing to confirm a creation myth that gives ultimate importance to the system. Well, I guess there could be C) the Doctor doesn't actually know, and is embarrassed because he doesn't have the answer.

Which is why I'm hoping they'll have a book on that "trip" and we discover he accidentally helped give rise to that particular myth...:smallamused:

I mean they have an entity named "Grandfather" and he just happened to have visited with his granddaughter maybe a thousand years ago... (Please correct me here if I got the timeline wrong there!:smallwink:)

[Sunken Valley]

Kate Stewart, Daughter of the Brigadier is in 50th Anniversary (http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/doctorwho/articles/Reunited-Jemma-Redgrave-Returns-for-the-Anniversary-Special)


Lots of you have had lukewarm reception of Akhaten. MrTARDISReviews, probably the best Dr Who reviewer on Youtube, gave a reaction video (not a real review due to laptop problems) calling it better than Dinosaurs on a Spaceship (which he gave an 8/10) and the best episode so far of Season 7.Here it is. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYCfQMK5ApU)

@Thufir: You are in charge of Review Catalogue yes? It needs updating please. One review from Friv (updated just before Bells of St John), One from Curly (Two Doctors) and Two from me.

[navar100]

Which is why I'm hoping they'll have a book on that "trip" and we discover he accidentally helped give rise to that particular myth...:smallamused:

I mean they have an entity named "Grandfather" and he just happened to have visited with his granddaughter maybe a thousand years ago... (Please correct me here if I got the timeline wrong there!:smallwink:)

I noticed that too.

[Kato]

I don't think that "it's a nice story" was a positive or negative value judgment on their creation myth.
I'm making this sound more important than it was to me but Smith's delivery of the line sounded more positive than neutral to me. I guess I was reading too much into it, it just caught my attention and kind of bothered me (probably more than it should)


Lots of you have had lukewarm reception of Akhaten. MrTARDISReviews, probably the best Dr Who reviewer on Youtube, gave a reaction video (not a real review due to laptop problems) calling it better than Dinosaurs on a Spaceship (which he gave an 8/10) and the best episode so far of Season 7.Here it is. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYCfQMK5ApU)

I must have really poor taste because Akhaten and Dinosaurs were my least favorite episodes in the season.

[Sunken Valley]

I must have really poor taste because Akhaten and Dinosaurs were my least favorite episodes in the season.

Would you like to know the scores for the rest of his season 7 reviews?
Doctor, Widow and Wardrobe: 5/10
Asylum of the Daleks: 3/10
Dinosaurs on a Spaceship: 8/10
Town Called Mercy: 5/10 (boo)
Power of Three: 7/10
Angels take Manhattan: 5/10
Snowmen: 4/10
Bells of St John: 7/10

For anyone else, I can post scores for his reviews of the rest of the Matt Smith era.

[Strawberries]

My least favourite of this season is still "Power of three" followed by "Angel take Manhattan".

As for "Rings Of Akhaten", I guess it goes in my list of "alright" episodes. I didn't love it, but I didn't dislike it either. Five point five out of ten, I guess, based on the Italian school grading system where 5 is a bit below average and six is "sufficient".


@Sunken Valley: I disagree with about half the scores on that list. Oh, well, different tastes, I guess.

[Giggling Ghast]

I have a bit of a fridge logic problem with this last episode.

If the Old God was their sun and the Doctor (and Clara) killed their sun, doesn't that mean all seven planets in the system are now uninhabitable?

Granted, maybe I shouldn't assume that life on an alien world is absolutely dependent on the sun in the same way as Earth's animal and plant life, but still, the loss of a sun is a pretty big deal.

I confess, I think I cared for "Akhaten" even less than the Christmas special, and I didn't much like the Christmas special at all. There were a lot of things happening, but not a lot of them made sense.

[navar100]

I'm making this sound more important than it was to me but Smith's delivery of the line sounded more positive than neutral to me. I guess I was reading too much into it, it just caught my attention and kind of bothered me (probably more than it should)


I must have really poor taste because Akhaten and Dinosaurs were my least favorite episodes in the season.

Right, cause it's such a tragedy the Doctor should find beauty in the Beliefs and Stories of others even though he knows the Truth. Only the absolute facts count, not the imaginations and artistry of living beings. If only everyone always agreed with each other, only believe the same things, only behave the same way.

http://s19.postimg.org/ck5ch1x33/cybermen.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/ck5ch1x33/)

[dps]

Would you like to know the scores for the rest of his season 7 reviews?
Doctor, Widow and Wardrobe: 5/10
Asylum of the Daleks: 3/10
Dinosaurs on a Spaceship: 8/10
Town Called Mercy: 5/10 (boo)
Power of Three: 7/10
Angels take Manhattan: 5/10
Snowmen: 4/10
Bells of St John: 7/10

For anyone else, I can post scores for his reviews of the rest of the Matt Smith era.

FWIW, my scores would be:
TDtWatW 2/10
AotD 9/10
DoaS 8/10
ATCW 5/10
TPoT 5/10
TATM 3/10
TS 7/10
TBoSJ 6/10
TRoA 6/10

Note that while I feel that "The Rings of Akhaten" is better than "The Bells of St. John's", I still put them both at 6/10. Also, for me, a 5/10 Doctor Who episode is still better than 90% else of what's on TV.

[LokeyITP]

Of note is MrTardis hasn't found any sexism worth mentioning, but then again he doesn't like Rose :)

Some of his silly bits get annoying and he tends to spout off on stuff he doesn't seem to know much about. But if he really likes an ep that you don't, it's worth checking out why he likes it. Also since he's in a film program, he notices and talks about the things that aren't discussed too much here (although generally they don't need to be because sets, props, costuming, filming and acting have been very good generally in this show practically forever).

[Mauve Shirt]

Someone else's theory on Clara. (http://who-lligan.tumblr.com/post/47304596201/my-theory-on-clara-updated-april-8th)

Thoughts?

[Androgeus]

Someone else's theory on Clara. (http://who-lligan.tumblr.com/post/47304596201/my-theory-on-clara-updated-april-8th)

Thoughts?

Dalek Emperor came from the time war, so that's kind of a massive hole in the theory.

[The Extinguisher]

Someone else's theory on Clara. (http://who-lligan.tumblr.com/post/47304596201/my-theory-on-clara-updated-april-8th)

Thoughts?

I think that's stretching it a little bit too far.


I think a lot of people are getting their hopes up with Rose coming back for the 50th anniversary. She's not going to be "coming back", at least in the sense of her character. Far more likely is that it's going to be Rose and the Tenth Doctor from sometime during their travels together. So Rose before "Army of Ghosts"/"Doomsday"



EDIT: That was definitely not a star in the most recent episode. It was pretty obvious a large gas giant that was threatening to turn into a star.

[Hopeless]

Apologies the below is only a theory and depending on Moffatt thinking along the same lines so very unlikely!

I'm hoping they're going with the cloned human Doctor and Rose after the events of the Donna as companion series!:smallbiggrin:

As for Clara I've been assuming she used the Doctor's TARDIS to escape and being stuck in nano cloud form had to restore herself twice so far, I'm not sure which came first but I do believe they retain a mental link with each other possibly the present one came first after her "death" with another emerging in Victorian era due to the Doctor as we don't know how long he spent there.

Since the TARDIS knows how Clara came into being she's treating her as either a rival for her doctor or a potential enemy due to that Dalek influence.

The reason she's been repeating those words to the doctor is that she has link to the Doctor courtesy of the nano cloud from the start of this season and his memory loss will become more obvious as we continue.

I think the Great Intelligence might have a link to Clara given the effect her "death" had in the Snowmen Christmas special so she was targetted because he/she/it knew it would draw in the Doctor.

I'd prefer the human clone Doctor and Rose so it shows time actually passing rather than having us try to explain why Doc 10 didn't just leave a message for Doc 11 about what was going to happen...

And I REALLY want a book about what happened when Doc 1 travelled to the Rings with his granddaughter Susan!!!:smallbiggrin:

[Eldan]

People like the Power of Three? That episode was horrible, I thought. The only redeeming feature were the few short snippets with Rory's father.

[Sunken Valley]

My own revised scores for Season 7 are

Doctor, Widow and Wardrobe: 2/10
Asylum of the Daleks: 7/10
Dinosaurs on a Spaceship: 8/10
Town Called Mercy: 10/10
Power of Three: 7/10
Angels take Manhattan: 7.5/10
Snowmen: 8/10
Bells of St John: 8/10
Rings of Akhaten : 7/10

[Kato]

I don't really like that theroy but I'll admit the date and the car are kind of intriguing.. Yet... it seems far fetched to draw these conclusions from those two things.

@Hopeless: you might wanna consider spoilering at least that first sentence in your post. It's not a big deal but for the sake of a certain review writing thread visitor.


So checking back it wasn't a sun (I'm not quite sure where it came from. Possibly the idea that the inhabitants of the other seven planets were so focused on it?) but removing a planet from a solar system is still kind of a deal. Not as big as removing a sun but I'm not entirely sure what would happen if Jupiter vanished. (Okay, probably not much, but the rings wouldn't be there anymore)

[Aotrs Commander]

Somewhat late to the party (since I was handily butchering PCs on Saturday, but last episode was okay.

The end was nice - Doctor rant followed by Clara Being Clever and delivering the final blow.

I'd just have blown the planet up meself, mind...

Clara is a good follow-up to the Ponds. While is unlikely she'll reach those dizzy height herself (you can't have a great group dynamic without a group), I already like her than any of the RTD era companions (except possibly Wilf). (Mind you, I can count on the fingers of one hand the companions I've actually liked rather than meh'd over the course of DW in total so that's not a particular denigration of Nine or Ten...)

[Hullabaloo]

I'm so used to the grading system in school where a 75 is average that its hard for me to see it as anything else.

Grade inflation! Resist it! As a professor, not everyone needs to pass :)

as for the episode

quote of the show "Its a nice story"

Show was really lame. /wouldnotwatchagain

[Devonix]

Good point, actually. Definitely not a tech skill.

Also it has been noted on many occasions that he's just not that good a pilot of anything really.

[Weezer]

Grade inflation! Resist it! As a professor, not everyone needs to pass :)

as for the episode

quote of the show "Its a nice story"

Show was really lame. /wouldnotwatchagain


Oh trust me, as a TA I'm not afraid to give failing grades. Though the professors for the course seem to disagree, but whatever. If I were inflating the grades then I would be saying an 85 should be average, which is actually what one course coordinator aims for. Ugh.

[navar100]

I'd prefer the human clone Doctor and Rose so it shows time actually passing rather than having us try to explain why Doc 10 didn't just leave a message for Doc 11 about what was going to happen...



Since when has "Doctor Who" ever been consistent with timelines? They're hanging around the 21st century. Where's the Wheel in Space? Where's the moon base? Where's Susan helping Earth recover from the daleks? :smallbiggrin:

Speaking of: Lady Peinforte in "Silver Nemesis" said she knew who the Doctor really was. I wonder if that'll be referenced in the season finale. If they'd just be willing and able to get Sylvester McCoy it would make it that much more special.

[Friv]

Speaking of: Lady Peinforte in "Silver Nemesis" said she knew who the Doctor really was. I wonder if that'll be referenced in the season finale. If they'd just be willing and able to get Sylvester McCoy it would make it that much more special.

I dunno.

That serial was referencing the Cartmel Masterplan (http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Cartmel_Masterplan), which IMHO was kind of a dumb idea to begin with, so I really hope that they don't go ahead with it. But who knows - all of this "The Doctor's Name" thing could be planning to revive that idea.

[Kosmopolite]

The Cartmel Masterplan relies on the idea that Time Lords don't naturally reproduce, but use other methods (looms blah blah nonsense). Since NuWho regularly talks about the Doctor having parents, being a child and having his own children and grandchildren I think that's unlikely. Not to mention the fact that as the last Time Lord (more or less) that ultimate revelation won't mean anything. It doesn't matter if he was the Time Lord progenitor or the Time Lord janitor. If they're all gone it still just makes him the Time Lord.

Yeah, I'm not a big fan of the Cartmel Masterplan. But it also doesn't make any kind of sense in the back story they've talked about for the Doctor since 2005.

[navar100]

Who says they have to follow the Cartmel Plan just because they refer to Lady Peinforte if in the hypothetical they do? They probably won't anyway since it's an obscure reference today's audiences who don't really know of Classic Who wouldn't understand. However, on the really off chance they do they can write whatever they want of it to fit the story as it is now, not what they planned on doing but never got to in the 1980's.

[dps]

Someone else's theory on Clara. (http://who-lligan.tumblr.com/post/47304596201/my-theory-on-clara-updated-april-8th)

Thoughts?

That's interesting. It makes more sense than most theories I've seen.


The Cartmel Masterplan relies on the idea that Time Lords don't naturally reproduce, but use other methods

No, just because the Cartmel Masterplan was fleshed out in some books that brought in the idea of looms doesn't mean that it relied on them. The basic idea of the Cartmel Masterplan was that the Doctor was The Other, the 3rd founder of Time Lord society along with Rassilon and Omega, and that he had been reincarnated or resurrected somehow. There's nothing in that idea that requires Time Lords to reproduce using looms rather than reproducing sexually.

[LokeyITP]

People like the Power of Three? That episode was horrible, I thought. The only redeeming feature were the few short snippets with Rory's father.
Even with the bleh ending, it's still a series 7a high water mark for me. It's a lot of fun, the story isn't rushed (except in time on screen, probably needed 60 min or two x 45 min), it stresses omg things happen off screen, does lots of other things too. Some of those things should have been in other eps or handled better in other eps, but anyway, with a decent ending it would have been up there with Family of Blood or the other neWho best.

I.e. see Sunken Valley liking Mercy the best. I agree it's stylish with lots of good lines, but omg what a mess of a plot. Or outside stupidly handled divorce or Dalek Parliament and maybe one or two other things, Asylum would also be among the best :)

[Kosmopolite]

That's interesting. It makes more sense than most theories I've seen.



No, just because the Cartmel Masterplan was fleshed out in some books that brought in the idea of looms doesn't mean that it relied on them. The basic idea of the Cartmel Masterplan was that the Doctor was The Other, the 3rd founder of Time Lord society along with Rassilon and Omega, and that he had been reincarnated or resurrected somehow. There's nothing in that idea that requires Time Lords to reproduce using looms rather than reproducing sexually.



The reincarnation is the looms. That's how it happens. And on-screen we've been told that the Doctor had parents. We also saw one of his classmates as a child (The Master).Besides, Who would want all that in there anyway at this stage anyway? Like I said, with the Time Lords gone, it's irrelevant at best and a crap story at worst.

[Admiral Squish]

I think, my ultimate goal as a writer is to be able to have one of my characters pull off something like of the Doctor's awesome speeches without sounding silly.

[Hopeless]

I always assumed The Other was effectively Peter Cushing's version of the Doctor from the Dalek movies who travelled to Gallifrey and helped them develop time travel I suspect Susan was being used against him forcing him to commit suicide when their demands became too much and when he was later ressurrected he found a way to return to where Susan was and rescued her.

She recognised him as her grandfather and he fled Gallifrey to protect her and everything following her leaving the TARDIS has been him either giving his fellow Timelords the finger, fighting the events they should have prevented and distracting them from the possibility they'd figure out who he actually is!:smallwink:

This assumes he hid his true name to prevent it being discovered by any of his fellow Timelords or anyone with the means to travel back in time and locate his original self

And the Silence want this secret kept because the Doctor probably used it to seal something they're scared of and don't want him releasing it or anything else sealed in there!

Maybe the Moment from the Time War?

[Giggling Ghast]

ISo checking back it wasn't a sun (I'm not quite sure where it came from.

Because it was big and bright and the seven worlds were said to orbit around it?

Doctor Who has had intelligent suns before.

[factotum]

Because it was big and bright and the seven worlds were said to orbit around it?

Did they actually say that? The Rings certainly orbited it, but I don't remember them saying the seven worlds also did.

[Kosmopolite]

I always assumed The Other was effectively Peter Cushing's version of the Doctor from the Dalek movies who travelled to Gallifrey and helped them develop time travel I suspect Susan was being used against him forcing him to commit suicide when their demands became too much and when he was later ressurrected he found a way to return to where Susan was and rescued her.

She recognised him as her grandfather and he fled Gallifrey to protect her and everything following her leaving the TARDIS has been him either giving his fellow Timelords the finger, fighting the events they should have prevented and distracting them from the possibility they'd figure out who he actually is!:smallwink:

This assumes he hid his true name to prevent it being discovered by any of his fellow Timelords or anyone with the means to travel back in time and locate his original self

And the Silence want this secret kept because the Doctor probably used it to seal something they're scared of and don't want him releasing it or anything else sealed in there!

Maybe the Moment from the Time War?


Just wanted to throw in by saying I love this idea, as I love the Cushing movies.

[Weezer]

The reincarnation is the looms. That's how it happens. And on-screen we've been told that the Doctor had parents. We also saw one of his classmates as a child (The Master).Besides, Who would want all that in there anyway at this stage anyway? Like I said, with the Time Lords gone, it's irrelevant at best and a crap story at worst.

The reincarnation doesn't have to be the looms, that was just the venue Cartmel chose. And looms could produce immature Time Lords, aka children. The mention of his parents could be explained in a number of ways, the most obvious being that Time Lords are raised by a pair of adults from the same house/loom that act in the same way as parents, and the doctor called them parents when talking with humans because that's the closest thing. The loom explanation hasn't been disproven yet. Him being the Other would be incredibly important and make for a great story. The same being who was partially responsible for the creation of time lord society and was betrayed by Rassilon being the one who destroyed said society and likewise betrayed Rassilon. That's some awesome symmetry and makes for a great story.

[Calemyr]

The whole "Grandfather" bit was just to obvious, especially after the jarring reference to Susan. It's so obvious that I don't know whether it's a teaser or a red herring.

So the Cartmel Master Backup Plan could be:

The Doctor is the third founder of the Time Lords, betrayed by Rasilon the same way Omega was, albeit not by the same methods. What remains of that original founder is Grandfather.


Whether that's true or not:
I really think the Doctor is closely tied to Grandfather, even if he's not aware of it. Besides the obvious "Grandfather" bit, Grandfather is doing exactly what the Doctor is doing - trapped and numbed by his own experience and the consequences his actions could have if he really cuts loose, he instead derives experience from the people around him. "When you make all time and space your back yard, that's all you have left: a back yard. But through you I can see it again."

Think about it. Assume that Grandfather is the Doctor, but at a future point in his time frame - after the Fall of the Eleventh, the information revealed starts the war Madame Kavorian is talking about, and the Doctor is either trapped in that planet or hides himself there to avoid... something. The consequences, most likely, or perhaps a power upgrade that he can't control. How could the Doctor, who couldn't sit still for an afternoon in Power of Three, survive something like that? Those offerings from the festival would have been meant to placate him. Through them, he continues to see the universe anew.

Now, the whole Queen of Years aspect could mean a few things, depending on who was responsible for Grandfather's imprisonment. If he was responsible, then it could be a degradation of the original intent. It wouldn't be the first time the Doctor's words and actions have been twisted after the fact. If it was the Silence (or whoever else), then it could simply be the optimal path to keep him sealed.

Other option: The Doctor we know is a creation of Grandfather, a chance to see the universe even though Grandfather must not. It could be that this is a consequence of the Time War, actually - NuWho Doctor has never been stated to be the same actual body (which isn't possible anyway, given regeneration). If the Doctor's final solution resulted in his own eternal imprisonment, an avatar could continue the journey in his place.

Either way, the hunger to see things through the eyes of others is too much a trait of the Doctor's to ignore. Grandfather is this to the nth degree. It's really hard to ignore.

[dps]

The reincarnation doesn't have to be the looms, that was just the venue Cartmel chose.

Exactly. That was the mechanism, but you use the general idea with a different mechanism.

[Admiral Squish]

On grandfather:
...I don't get it. I thought the Grandfather was a living sun. How can the doctor be related to a sun?

[Calemyr]

On grandfather:
...I don't get it. I thought the Grandfather was a living sun. How can the doctor be related to a sun?

It's not the sun, it's the a planet.
If it were the sun, the distance between the planets would be too great to traverse as quickly as they do. Granted, this is Doctor Who - writers have no sense of scale and all that. Of course, then there's the question of air between meteors, but if we start picking every nit in sight, the next episode will be on before we're done.

If it were rings around a gas giant, however, like Saturn, it would make more sense timing wise. Also, either that's a very tiny sun or a very large meteor belt, because the establishing shots look more like Saturn than Sol.

Also note that the festival is attended mostly by "inhabitants of the local system". I doubt you would get that incredible of a diversity off of a field of meteors. The bazaar meteor is their local equivalent to Mecca - this is less of a home and more of some very important to go.

Of course, there's not enough conclusive evidence to go on either way, really. It's a question of which aspects you want to focus on, which real world rules you believe are in force.

The key to my argument, however, may be that the people of the system gave her her ring back because she saved them. If that were the sun, they'd have been somewhat less grateful. And dead.

[Kosmopolite]

The reincarnation doesn't have to be the looms, that was just the venue Cartmel chose. And looms could produce immature Time Lords, aka children. The mention of his parents could be explained in a number of ways, the most obvious being that Time Lords are raised by a pair of adults from the same house/loom that act in the same way as parents, and the doctor called them parents when talking with humans because that's the closest thing. The loom explanation hasn't been disproven yet. Him being the Other would be incredibly important and make for a great story. The same being who was partially responsible for the creation of time lord society and was betrayed by Rassilon being the one who destroyed said society and likewise betrayed Rassilon. That's some awesome symmetry and makes for a great story.

I totally disagree. I think great stories can be told without all that convoluted 80s nonsense which only a tiny percentage of the fanbase know about, so would have to be completely reintroduced only for it to have absolutely no effect on the DW universe because there's only the one Time Lord to be affected!

[Hopeless]

I totally disagree. I think great stories can be told without all that convoluted 80s nonsense which only a tiny percentage of the fanbase know about, so would have to be completely reintroduced only for it to have absolutely no effect on the DW universe because there's only the one Time Lord to be affected!

But what if the secret allows the Timelords to return?

Before they may have been responsible (ish) but are now probably out and out insane enough to make the Daleks look almost heroic in comparison?:smalleek:

[Weezer]

I totally disagree. I think great stories can be told without all that convoluted 80s nonsense which only a tiny percentage of the fanbase know about, so would have to be completely reintroduced only for it to have absolutely no effect on the DW universe because there's only the one Time Lord to be affected!

So they reintroduce it? I'm still hoping that the 50th is an Omega story, which could be a nice set up. We're also already getting prepared to learn who the Doctor "really" is with the whole Fields of Trenzalore prophecy, it would be easy to make that revelation about this.

And guess what, that one Time Lord is the one the whole show is about, so something that fundamentally affects him would be a fine thing for the show to focus on.

I'm not sure why you think it's nonsense, care to explain?

[Calemyr]

By the way, just watched the Rings again. If anyone's curious:
When first introducing the Rings to Clara:
Doctor: "Seven worlds, orbiting the same star. All of them sharing the belief that all life in the universe originated here... on that planet."

[Eldan]

Ooh. And I remember thinking "That's not a planet, that's an asteroid", since I thought he was pointing at the pyramid.

[Friv]

So they reintroduce it? I'm still hoping that the 50th is an Omega story, which could be a nice set up. We're also already getting prepared to learn who the Doctor "really" is with the whole Fields of Trenzalore prophecy, it would be easy to make that revelation about this.

And guess what, that one Time Lord is the one the whole show is about, so something that fundamentally affects him would be a fine thing for the show to focus on.

I'm not sure why you think it's nonsense, care to explain?

The key of the Cartmel Masterplan relies on two critical fallacies, narratively speaking.

#1 - That the Doctor isn't interesting if he is a, and I quote, "chump Time Lord". The combined mysteries of the universe, a civilization that exists outside of the flow of time and space, all of its wonders and impossible nature just isn't interesting enough for questions such as "why the Doctor leave" and "what does it mean to be a Time Lord" to define a character. Instead, the Doctor has to be double-plus special. He has to be important not because he has made a decision to do what other Time Lords don't want to, but because he is one of the figures mythical even to the other Time Lords, an actual overbeing responsible for his civilization's entire existence.

This strikes at the "ordinary people matter" narrative that lies at the heart of much of Doctor Who. The Doctor's actions should be what set him apart, not his origin. Whatever happens at the Fields of Trenzalore should be about what he does, not who he is.

(This, incidentally, is the main reason that I'm fairly comfortable in the belief that the Masterplan isn't going to be introduced. Moffat's been a big fan of the idea that the Doctor's actions cause others to view him as a legend, rather than that the Doctor is inherently a legendary being; that was basically the whole point of the Pandorica.)

#2 - That the correct solution to an audience growing comfortable with and used to a character, rather than natural character growth, is to create for them a convoluted and mysterious backstory that proves that they've always been EVEN BIGGER AND MORE IMPRESSIVE than you suspected. That way lies madness, because as soon as you reveal the BIGGER AND EDGIER backstory, your thread has run out, and soon the audience is used to the DOUBLE PLUS SIZED Doctor. And then you have to create a new mysterious backstory, where it turns out that he invented the universe, and pretty soon you have reached a shonen-anime-style escalation that cannot possibly end well.

[navar100]

But the Doctor did invent the universe, igniting Big Bang II to bring back the original universe.

He had help.

:smallbiggrin:

[Hopeless]

So what did happen at the end of series 5 when the doctor sacrificed himself to reboot the universe?

I'm wondering if what the fields of whatever its called will reveal is that all of these episodes since then have been about him stuck outside of time and the need to remember is his slow recovery and realisation where he truly is and ultimately what will happen is that he will "return" to the true universe as the climax of series 6 something the Silence are fighting bitterly against since he poses an even greater threat once he's released...

Fury of a timelord?... just imagine what'll happen if he realizes hes still stuck in the pandorica and his action has resulted in the prison slowly breaking apart eventually releasing him the only thing keeping him from this realisation is the wardens of his prison who work for the true mastermind behind this...

[Spacewolf]

Was i really the only one who liked the singing? Gave a nice undertone to the scene, i suppose I do like choirs though so might be abit biased.

Doctor really should have been the one to finish of the beasty though could have spent the extra time at the start that would have been saved by not introducing the leaf and given it to something interesting.

[Friv]

Doctor really should have been the one to finish of the beasty though could have spent the extra time at the start that would have been saved by not introducing the leaf and given it to something interesting.

It's becoming a tradition for the first extradimensional trip that the Doctor takes his companion on to require them to save the day somehow, showing that he's fallible.

Martha restarted the Doctor's heart when the Carrionites almost killed him.
Donna helped the Doctor overcome his crisis of conscience and destroy Pompeii, and followed it up by helping him keep his conscience by saving at least one family.
Amy recognized that the Beast didn't need to be killed and kept the Doctor from killing it and giving up.
And now Clara using the leaf when the Doctor's attempt to sacrifice himself didn't work.

Rose, as usual, is kind of a failure and helps out only inasmuch as her needling Cassandra is the reason that the Doctor is able to track down the true hijacker - her mistake lets him succeed, rather than her repairing a mistake that he makes.

(Also, interestingly, this doesn't happen with the male companions - Mickey earned the Doctor's respect in his second appearance, but didn't save the day in a way that covered a mistake the Doctor was making, Jack doesn't do much in Boom Town, and Rory just helps out generally in Venice.)

[Spacewolf]

Yea but i was hopeing that since this was Claras "3rd" appearance and she displayed her usefulness in the asylum the doctor would come across as competent in this one.

[CurlyKitGirl]

It's becoming a tradition for the first extradimensional trip that the Doctor takes his companion on to require them to save the day somehow, showing that he's fallible.

[...]

Rose, as usual, is kind of a failure and helps out only inasmuch as her needling Cassandra is the reason that the Doctor is able to track down the true hijacker - her mistake lets him succeed, rather than her repairing a mistake that he makes.

I've begun to take a sadistic amount of pleasure from the way people just dismiss or outright discuss Rose's flaws. I think I'm officially a hater.
Guess I'm gonna hat then. :smalltongue:
That's actually a good point though; I think it ties into that thing Donna says in 'The Runaway Bride' - you need someone with you to keep you sane and safe', and how better to illustrate that than by showing that the Doctor needs to be able to rely on people too.
Unless you're Rose, who's simply a dead weight dragging you down to your doom.


(Also, interestingly, this doesn't happen with the male companions - Mickey earned the Doctor's respect in his second appearance, but didn't save the day in a way that covered a mistake the Doctor was making, Jack doesn't do much in Boom Town, and Rory just helps out generally in Venice.)

Well, obviously, it's sexism. Females have to prove their worth whereas men just have it. It's all about male privilege! /troll /reading to much into it

Another good point. However, isn't Mickey's second appearance the first time the Doctor actually gets to know Mickey, so in that one appearance he goes from mocking him to respecting him?
Jack's first appearance was a clusterbomb of inadvertent idiocy that lead to the whole gasmask thing, but his willingness to sacrifice himself to fix his mistake could have earned the Doctor's respect that way, even if 'Boom Town' wasn't all that good.
Can't clue in on the Rory one though - still need to see season five (except parts of 'The Eleventh Hour'; but clearly Rory's so awesome he doesn't have to fix anyone's mistakes (not even his own) to prove his worth, he's just that cool. Besides, in his first appearance his observation skills are what lead the Doctor to figuring out what's going on.
D: "Everyone's staring at the sun except you, you're wondering why a coma patient's up and walking about." (loosely) Rory was straight up competent.

[Aotrs Commander]

New episode:

Most English-sounding Russians ever!

I like Clara. She keeps her composure fairly well, even when she's really rattled. It's understated, which makes for a nice change.

Not a bad episode, that, not at all.



Can't clue in on the Rory one though - still need to see season five (except parts of 'The Eleventh Hour'; but clearly Rory's so awesome he doesn't have to fix anyone's mistakes (not even his own) to prove his worth, he's just that cool. Besides, in his first appearance his observation skills are what lead the Doctor to figuring out what's going on.
D: "Everyone's staring at the sun except you, you're wondering why a coma patient's up and walking about." (loosely) Rory was straight up competent.

Dude kept coming back from the dead and worse so many times he was joking about it.

More than I can say for any other companion!

(My fervent headcanon is that Rory quietly went all Last Centurion on the Weeping Angels and kicked their arses off screen and he and Amy just settled in for a bit of a rest (and a bit of a payback for when the Doctor's made them think he was dead) and at some point., probably off-screen, they'll jump out and surprise him and give the Doctor a double heart attack or something and it'll be all smiles and laughter. And you can't stop me, Moffat! Muahahahahahahahaha!

Ahem.)

[Strawberries]

This one, I really liked.

And it seems like Clara continues the trend of saving the day.

I like Clara. Much more than Amy, actually, but then again, Amy was never one of my favourite companions.

[Hopeless]

Dude kept coming back from the dead and worse so many times he was joking about it.

More than I can say for any other companion!

(My fervent headcanon is that Rory quietly went all Last Centurion on the Weeping Angels and kicked their arses off screen and he and Amy just settled in for a bit of a rest (and a bit of a payback for when the Doctor's made them think he was dead) and at some point., probably off-screen, they'll jump out and surprise him and give the Doctor a double heart attack or something and it'll be all smiles and laughter. And you can't stop me, Moffat! Muahahahahahahahaha!

Ahem.)

I'd like to see that either as a book, audio release or maybe a comic?

Especially the kicking the weeping angels out of New York, can never have enough Last Centurion callbacks!:smallwink:

[factotum]

Liked the latest episode--just a couple of niggles:


Actually getting a bit annoyed that it seems to be Clara who's actually saving them each time...I hope there's some explanation for that which is related to the overall mystery surrounding her!

Only other problem was the dripping water everywhere. The pressure at 720m is more than 70 atmospheres--you spring a leak in that environment and the water would spray in with a great deal of force!

[Eldan]

One weird bit:

So, he gets out of the armour to slip his chains. fair enough.

Then he summons his armour and it breaks free of the chains... why not do that immediately and put it back on?

[Admiral Squish]

Hard to resist the spoilers... The new ep's just about to start over here.

[Dienekes]

One weird bit:

So, he gets out of the armour to slip his chains. fair enough.

Then he summons his armour and it breaks free of the chains... why not do that immediately and put it back on?

I get the feeling his armor was good for a straight fight where he's being shot at, but it didn't look like the stealthiest piece of equipment. The enemy had already knocked him unconscious once I believe he thought it was best to use a different tactic to gain information.

Anyway, saw the episode liked it much better than last weeks.

[Giggling Ghast]

Didn't care for it, unfortunately, which makes that two out of three episodes I haven't liked this season. :smallfrown:

I found it difficult to reconcile the Brussians. I know, TARDIS translation matrix, but it still bugged me. I have zero problem with future humans or aliens sounding like British actors because I don't know what they sound like anyway. But these are (almost) modern-day Russians. It's one thing for them to speak English for the ease of the viewing audience and the actors themselves, and another for them to have ye olde Englishe accentes.

Also, I didn't buy the villain's last-second change of heart. What happened to all that "the lives of this planet is forfeit" business? And he was apparently the most ruthless of his kind! The Doctor's point about history remembering his actions; even if his culture didn't endorse his act of genocide, I doubt history would remember that World War 3 was started by a frozen Martian firing a nuclear missile from a sub crashed in the Arctic. And that's if there were humans who survived nuclear annihilation, which is not too damned likely.

I can't help but think this issue would have been solved easily by just putting a gun to the chin of the Ice Warrior and pulling the trigger. Yes, the Doctor doesn't like to kill, but he was OK with having the Red Shirts try and track down the Ice Warrior later on.

But wait, the Ice Warrior left! All's well that ends well, unless you were one of the Russian sailors he ripped to shreds.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Didn't care for it, unfortunately, which makes that two out of three episodes I haven't liked this season. :smallfrown:

I'm forced to agree.

On top of the mentioned issues with the Brussians and the last-second Heel Face Turn "twist," the plot felt incredibly unoriginal to me. It was basically Alien meets The Hunt for Red October.

Scuttling alien hiding in crawlspaces that you only get bare glimpses of until the end? Check.

Alien grabs people unexpectedly and silently kills them? Check.

A sub whose engine breaks down at a critical moment? Check.

A Connery-esque captain performing maybe-real-maybe-fake missile launch drills under the oversight of a commissar-type officer who dies shortly thereafter? Check.

This episode just didn't do it for me, and I'd give it a 4/10 at best.

[Giggling Ghast]

I don't necessarily mind the recycling of concepts since most concepts are recycled. It's all been done before, y'know? I just think the idea of the Doctor locked on a nuclear submarine at the height of the Cold War could have been done a lot better, particularly with a more impressive and consistent villain.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

I don't necessarily mind the recycling of concepts since most concepts are recycled. It's all been done, y'know?

This is true, but there's a difference between "this sorta kinda resembles something I've seen before" and "this takes a bunch of plot elements from the most famous Russian-submarine-centered movie and then makes the Ice Warrior look and act a heck of a lot like the Alien when out of his armor."

I mean, my roommate came in while I was watching it (not knowing I was watching Doctor Who) during the part where the two soldiers are talking and the private gets yanked in the background while the officer keeps talking, and he looked at that and actually thought I was watching Aliens until he got a closer look.

[theangelJean]

Haven't seen the episode yet. Have to wait til my husband finishes Bioshock Infinite (soon, apparently.)

In defense of Rose, while a bunch of other companions did save the day on their first trip, Rose saved the day in the first episode. The Nestene consciousness had the Doctor tied up, and Rose the Everygirl had to use her "no job, no A-levels ... something about gymnastics skills" to swing on a rope and knock out some goons (while Mickey was cowering in a corner). Apparently the Doctor would have been dead if it weren't for her.

Of course she's not the only one - Martha restarted the Doctor's heart(s) in her first appearance, and Donna is revealed (late in her series) to have done something crucial in the Christmas special where she first appeared. (Curlers!)

Which leads into what I came here to actually say:

Catherine Tate is appearing at her first Doctor Who Convention (http://tennantnews.blogspot.com.au/2013/04/catherine-tate-to-make-her-doctor-who.html). (Note, the actual article opens up in a large window-within-the-page which might be JavaScript or something.)

And ... I went back and re-watched Silence in the Library and Forest of the Dead a week ago and they're just so good... it makes me sad to think that CurlyKitGirl is missing out on them :( Do you have access to these episodes, have you just watched them and not reviewed them, or have you not watched them at all? Not that I mind putting stuff in spoilers, just if you like Donna I think you'll really enjoy them, and also as it gets up to June, if you catch any clips of Catherine Tate at the convention (or go and see her!) there will be spoilers. Maybe you could watch them before then, even if you don't review them?

(Okay, I am a bit of an RTD fangirl.)

[LokeyITP]

Hard to call this one.

Doesn't pass the take 5 minutes and not think of an easy way to improve the ep test for sure, but harder to make the combination of concepts workable.

There's always going to be some did not do the research, but articles on kilo class subs aren't that far away :) That's besides the obvious omg what.

Sets are nice, and water has to be a PITA. Extras didn't sell the we're d0med well, but then neither did the principals much either.

Horrible sound mix in the last 2 eps also, way too much music/sound effects too loud over dialog (and important dialog at that).

I guess the real test is if I'll want to watch it again, not sure of that at the moment (but then no Ice Warrior nostalgia for me either).

[Kato]

I was pretty happy with the new episode. Not "OMG it's the best episode ever" but I found it pretty decent.


While I can kind of see how there wasn't much really original in it (though I'd not go as far with the Alien/Red October accusations. Okay, maybe the Alien ones :smalltongue:) and how it could have been more... special, I guess, I found little things that were really flawed to me. I don't mind the Brussians... Tardis translation matrix, bla. And I wouldn't want Cunningham and the rest of the cast fake force Russian accents. Or at least I see no need for it.

Some things did bother me though... like: a mammoth? Really? A baby mammoth, maybe... And why would that guy try to torch the ice block? Why the hurry? There've been more smaller things and I guess issues I missed...
Two things at the end did quite tick me off, though: 1) Clara's singing finally convincing the Ice Warrior. Really, all the talk, arguments, etc and then it's a few lines of song that do the trick? :smallannoyed: 2) South pole? Really? That makes so little sense... for a throw away gag...

But on the whole... it seemed decent enough to me. Maybe because I could understand the Ice Warrior to a certain extent and like "A Town called Mercy" I like it when the episodes have something like that in it.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

RE Kato's first question:

I don't think Clara's singing convinced the Ice Warrior. Clara was singing to make herself feel better, because she was on the edge of freaking out over the situation. The Ice Warrior decided on his own.

[Strawberries]

RE Kato's first question:

I don't think Clara's singing convinced the Ice Warrior. Clara was singing to make herself feel better, because she was on the edge of freaking out over the situation. The Ice Warrior decided on his own.

That is a possibility. I had also linked it

To the fact that he sang songs with his daughter. Both the Professor and Clara singing helped them being humanised... eeeer.... ice-warriorised, in his eyes, if it makes sense. It made sense in MY head, at least.

[dps]

Horrible sound mix in the last 2 eps also, way too much music/sound effects too loud over dialog (and important dialog at that).


That's actually been fairly common during the Moffat era. It's not the case in every episode, but it does happen in many of them.

RE the singing: I think Clara starts singing to try to connect to the Ice Warrior, recalling his mention of having sung with his daugher. But it's not clear if that works. I think the change of heart was because some of his people showed up--before that, he thought that they were all dead, and he had nothing left to lose. Or it could have been he was impressed with the Doctor's willingness to sacrifice himself to save the Earth if necessary. I think it was kind of deliberately left up to the viewer to decide exactly why he changed his mind.

[navar100]

I figured Clara singing when she was scared was because she refused to sing earlier when the Professor was egging her to with Duran Duran. It's a common literary trope for a character to do something s/he vehemently refused to do earlier in the story.

[KillianHawkeye]

I think it was kind of deliberately left up to the viewer to decide exactly why he changed his mind.

Pretty much this.

[Kato]

I know where they were coming from... it was weird coincidental that the missile got disarmed just when she started singing. I know all the reasons but it was just... a bit off. Especially since he probably couldn't hear her. Maybe I'm just imagining things and it was purely to calm herself down. It's no biggie.



That [too loud sound effects over dialogue]'s actually been fairly common during the Moffat era. It's not the case in every episode, but it does happen in many of them.

It mostly troubled me at the beginning when the Doctor and Clara just arrived. I didn't bother to go back but I could hardly make out what was said. It's kind of realistic but in film I'd expect them to ignore that for the sake of the viewer.

[Dr. Simon]

Re: Russians speaking unaccented English.

Pff. I see no problem. The film Gorky Park did this years ago. In 1983, funnily enough.

Also the TV series Private Schultz, which was a WW2 comedy-drama. Whenever German and French characters spoke to each other in their own language, the actors used English with no accents. If they spoke English (in character) then the actors used English with German or French accents.

[Hopeless]

Re: Russians speaking unaccented English.

Pff. I see no problem. The film Gorky Park did this years ago. In 1983, funnily enough.

Also the TV series Private Schultz, which was a WW2 comedy-drama. Whenever German and French characters spoke to each other in their own language, the actors used English with no accents. If they spoke English (in character) then the actors used English with German or French accents.

'Allo 'Allo did something similar as I recall the british airman spoke with a posh accent, the british agent working as a french policeman making odd mistakes speaking english on the grounds he was speaking french that even the germans noticed from time to time but thats comedy for you!

The ghost episode is next week apparently, anyone looking forward to that?

[Avaris]

Thoughts on the latest episode: I enjoyed it well enough, but it's one of those ones where the more you go back and think about it, the more you realise how it could have been so much better.

I particularly liked the fact that the Doctor knew the Ice Warrior by name and reputation. That strikes me as unusual, and I wish it had been played on more by bringing in other Ice Warriors to interact with.

This episode falls to what I think of as the 'Iron Man 2' problem. Good, but could have been so much better with one simple change to the plot: have the original villain actually die when you first defeat them. Iron Man 2 had Whiplash, and imo he should have died early on having dented Stark's confidence and reputation, setting up a fall from grace and then recovery plot. The same is true here.

In my rewrite, the Ice Warrior would have died when he was shocked from behind. This makes the mistake much more serious, with the potential of a threat from other Ice Warriors (either responding to a distress signal or escaping from the ice as he did) if they don't get their commander back. Additionally, I would have had the 'nuke-happy' officer play a larger villainous role, potentially by usurping command or by stealing the bullet proof Ice Warrior armour so as to gain control of the nukes.

Ultimately, I think the Ice Warrior was cheapened by being yet another nigh-indestructible killing machine with advanced powers. Being a dangerous creature in the vents, with a militaristic sense of honour, then summoning his armour back to him (how?) then overriding the controls just by waving his hand (HOW?) just makes him seem like a worse Cyberman/Dalek/whatever. It fell into the trap of being stronger than the humans in all ways, when it could have been a good bait and switch for a close, personal human story (especially good as they're trapped in a submarine).

Also, south pole? I don't care if you get a lift there, but as I'm sure any school kid could tell you (Scott's expedition is a popular topic in schools!) they'll still have several hundred miles across cold mountainous terrain with no equipment or supplies to reach the Tardis...

[navar100]

I'm glad the "nuke-happy" officer didn't mutiny. It's cliche, and I was expecting it. That he tried to form an alliance with the Ice Warrior is a typical action of the stereotyped character. I'm glad the Ice Warrior did not take him up on the offer, even with the cliche he would just be using him until no longer needed then kill him.

[dps]

It [poor sound mix] mostly troubled me at the beginning when the Doctor and Clara just arrived. I didn't bother to go back but I could hardly make out what was said. It's kind of realistic but in film I'd expect them to ignore that for the sake of the viewer.

Yeah, from reviews and such that I read after watching, the Doctor and Clara thought that they were going to Las Vegas, but I sure couldn't tell from the dialogue.


Re: Russians speaking unaccented English.

Pff. I see no problem. The film Gorky Park did this years ago. In 1983, funnily enough.

I don't see any problem either. Given that the Tardis is translating, there's no real reason they should be speaking with a Russian accent. If the Soviets had actually been speaking English at some point, then they should have had a Russian accent.


In my rewrite, the Ice Warrior would have died when he was shocked from behind. This makes the mistake much more serious, with the potential of a threat from other Ice Warriors (either responding to a distress signal or escaping from the ice as he did) if they don't get their commander back. Additionally, I would have had the 'nuke-happy' officer play a larger villainous role, potentially by usurping command or by stealing the bullet proof Ice Warrior armour so as to gain control of the nukes.

Not a bad idea, but it would have been incredibly rushed unless you make it a 2-parter.

[BRC]

I was re-watching the first episode of BBC's Sherlock, and developed a theory

At some point Clara ends up engaged to Harriet Watson. Harriet does not travel in the Tardis, and spends her time worrying about Clara. The worry drives Harriet to drink heavily, which drives Clara away.
Which causes Harriet to give her phone to her brother John.

[navar100]

Yeah, from reviews and such that I read after watching, the Doctor and Clara thought that they were going to Las Vegas, but I sure couldn't tell from the dialogue.


I picked up on that. It reminded me of Ye Olden Days of Classic Who where the TARDIS never arrives where or when the Doctor wanted. Even happened with Tenant's Doctor when they arrived in 1870]s England instead of 1970's England. Of course, as the TARDIS told the Doctor, she always brings him where he needs to be. :smallsmile:

[Giggling Ghast]

Re: Russians speaking unaccented English.

Pff. I see no problem. The film Gorky Park did this years ago. In 1983, funnily enough.

Yeah, but it's inconsistently applied here. Adolf Hitler spoke with a German accent, as did all der Nazis from "Let's Kill Hitler." Nixon spoke with an American accent.

I dunno, the Brusskies just felt wrong, and given the frequent references to Clara and the Doctor speaking Russian, I get the vibe they recognized that too.

"They're speaking RUSSIAN, I tell you, they're as RUSSIAN as can be, these are the most RUSSIAN-y RUSSIANS to ever perform that stupid squat dance atop the Kremlin, they called each other 'Comrade' and everything, pay no attention to that fellow in the corner drinking tea and singing "God Save the Queen," these are RUSSIANS, damn you."

If it was just a matter of Russian-accented English being too hard to understand, why make it a Russian sub at all?

[huttj509]

Arrival dialogue:

Yeah, it started with "Viva Las Vegas!" Also explains why The Doctor had those Elvis sunglasses later...dunno bout the barbie doll.

General Dialogue:

There was a bit there where Oswin thought they were on an English sub, due to what she was hearing, having not encountered the translation matrix before. She hadn't noticed the dials labeled in Russian. The whole "we're not spies, we don't even speak Russian" before finding out speaking RUSSIAN wasn't the issue.

Personally, I considered it both a practicality, a bit for humor, and a nod to Connery in Red October.

[Thufir]

Well, a video-game charity event occupied me all weekend, but I finally watched the episode tonight, so I can stop avoiding the Media subforum like the plague!

I liked the episode, but it had the same issue a bunch of other Who episodes have, that some interesting ideas were not fully and properly developed and realised. Maybe they could've cut short the redshirt Russians getting slaughtered to flesh out some other things a bit better. Or something.


Most English-sounding Russians ever!

TARDIS translation matrix. It does weird things sometimes. There's precedent for it in Vincent thinking Amy was from Holland because they both had Scottish accents. I found it a little weird in the first couple of scenes, then got used to it.


Also, I didn't buy the villain's last-second change of heart. What happened to all that "the lives of this planet is forfeit" business? And he was apparently the most ruthless of his kind!

This I acknowledge was an issue. It's one of the bits I felt wasn't covered enough like I said above. The thing about singing with his daughter was obviously set up as a humanising point for him in comparison to the professor singing to keep his spirits up. But they didn't do enough with it to make it convincing that he would relent. I mean, I guess the point was to make it seem like Skaldak wasn't totally persuaded to maintain the suspense, but in actuality it just made it seem like his change of heart came pretty much out of nowhere. There was no proper resolution for all that tension, it just built up and then vanished.


On top of the mentioned issues with the Brussians and the last-second Heel Face Turn "twist," the plot felt incredibly unoriginal to me. It was basically Alien meets The Hunt for Red October.

I haven't seen the latter so I can't comment on similarities there, but I can see the Alien comparison, and I felt the section which really emphasised it was the weakest bit of the episode and could've been cut.


And ... I went back and re-watched Silence in the Library and Forest of the Dead a week ago and they're just so good... it makes me sad to think that CurlyKitGirl is missing out on them :( Do you have access to these episodes, have you just watched them and not reviewed them, or have you not watched them at all? Not that I mind putting stuff in spoilers, just if you like Donna I think you'll really enjoy them, and also as it gets up to June, if you catch any clips of Catherine Tate at the convention (or go and see her!) there will be spoilers. Maybe you could watch them before then, even if you don't review them?

She has actually seen those two episodes specifically because she watched all the Moffat episodes even before she started watching the show properly as I recall. She just hasn't seen a few episodes before them and a few more after.


Two things at the end did quite tick me off, though: 1) Clara's singing finally convincing the Ice Warrior. Really, all the talk, arguments, etc and then it's a few lines of song that do the trick? :smallannoyed: 2) South pole? Really? That makes so little sense... for a throw away gag...

1) Not what happened. He couldn't hear her, he just decided, she just finally gave in and did the singing to keep her spirits up a bit.

2) It's a throwaway gag, how much sense do you really need it to make?


That is a possibility. I had also linked it

To the fact that he sang songs with his daughter. Both the Professor and Clara singing helped them being humanised... eeeer.... ice-warriorised, in his eyes, if it makes sense. It made sense in MY head, at least.

Like I said, that seemed to be an obvious connection, but they didn't really make enough of it and I don't think it was supposed to have been the final thing there.


'Allo 'Allo did something similar as I recall the british airman spoke with a posh accent, the british agent working as a french policeman making odd mistakes speaking english on the grounds he was speaking french that even the germans noticed from time to time but thats comedy for you!

Yeah, since the whole show was actually in English they indicated when characters were actually speaking English by having them affect really posh accents.
And yes, Crabtree was not the most accurate speaker of the French longwodge. Gid moaning.


I particularly liked the fact that the Doctor knew the Ice Warrior by name and reputation. That strikes me as unusual, and I wish it had been played on more by bringing in other Ice Warriors to interact with.

It was interesting, but I kind of agree with you in a way. I feel like having other Ice Warriors would've made Skaldak's significance more... well, significant, and since there wasn't any such interaction, I think I would have preferred it if he hadn't been such a well-known Ice Warrior figure, because then it just feels like "Yeah, and my Ice Warrior episode will have the coolest Ice Warrior ever!" His reputation had no relevance to the story.


This episode falls to what I think of as the 'Iron Man 2' problem. Good, but could have been so much better with one simple change to the plot: have the original villain actually die when you first defeat them. Iron Man 2 had Whiplash, and imo he should have died early on having dented Stark's confidence and reputation, setting up a fall from grace and then recovery plot. The same is true here.

In my rewrite, the Ice Warrior would have died when he was shocked from behind. This makes the mistake much more serious, with the potential of a threat from other Ice Warriors (either responding to a distress signal or escaping from the ice as he did) if they don't get their commander back.

That would've been one interesting take on it.


Additionally, I would have had the 'nuke-happy' officer play a larger villainous role, potentially by usurping command or by stealing the bullet proof Ice Warrior armour so as to gain control of the nukes.

Ultimately, I think the Ice Warrior was cheapened by being yet another nigh-indestructible killing machine with advanced powers. Being a dangerous creature in the vents, with a militaristic sense of honour, then summoning his armour back to him (how?) then overriding the controls just by waving his hand (HOW?) just makes him seem like a worse Cyberman/Dalek/whatever. It fell into the trap of being stronger than the humans in all ways, when it could have been a good bait and switch for a close, personal human story (especially good as they're trapped in a submarine).

Sticking these together, the nuke-happy officer would have been a better way for Skaldak to get the nukes ready to launch, as well as learning about MAD. Instead of supertech cyborg wire tentacles.


I picked up on that. It reminded me of Ye Olden Days of Classic Who where the TARDIS never arrives where or when the Doctor wanted. Even happened with Tenant's Doctor when they arrived in 1870]s England instead of 1970's England. Of course, as the TARDIS told the Doctor, she always brings him where he needs to be. :smallsmile:

That's not really a 'Ye Olden Days of Classic Who' thing, it's happened plenty of times since the revival as well. In addition to the one you mentioned, just off the top of my head: 12 hours/12 months, New Tork/London, 5 minutes/12 years, Rio/Wales...


Yeah, but it's inconsistently applied here. Adolf Hitler spoke with a German accent, as did all der Nazis from "Let's Kill Hitler." Nixon spoke with an American accent.

Notwithstanding any hyperbolic statements I may on occasion make to the contrary, Americans do still speak English.
To the general principle, it has never been consistent throughout the entire run of the show, and you're massively overreacting to it.


There was a bit there where Oswin thought they were on an English sub, due to what she was hearing, having not encountered the translation matrix before. She hadn't noticed the dials labeled in Russian. The whole "we're not spies, we don't even speak Russian" before finding out speaking RUSSIAN wasn't the issue.

No, she knew it was a Russian sub, the Doctor told her. She just thought the Russians were speaking English.


OK, so like I've said, I think there could've been more made of playing on Skaldak's emotions regarding his daughter, more of a debate at the end and more of the impasse before the other Ice Warriors swooped in and whisked the problem away. Either make it look like Skaldak might have actually changed his mind before he was taken from the sub, or my alternative idea would be if the other Ice Warriors had seen what was going on, disagreed with Skaldak's attempted genocide, felt he had dishonoured himself by it and by leaving his armour, and if they therefore turned up, executed him, and then left.

Overall, despite the flaws, I still liked the episode. I thought it built up well, I liked the characters of the professor and the captain, it's just the resolution was a bit lacklustre, particularly in the context of the rest having been rather good. It fell short of the standard it set for itself. But even then, I can think of considerably worse resolutions *coughDaviesfinalescough*. So, yeah.

[Dr. Simon]

Fair point about inconsistent accents, although one could argue that American English is close enough to British English that the TARDIS doesn't need to translate.

It is inconsistent, though (because, of course, nothing else in Doctor Who is, right?) - the Cyrillic lettering remains untranslated even though we've seen Latin writing converted to English for Donna in the Fires of Pompeii. Sometimes, such as with the reveal with River's baby-name stitching thing, it takes a while to "develop". And there seems to be a running theme that the TARDIS doesn't like/trust Clara and keeps rejecting her. However, at the end of the day it's just a throw-away plot device to explain why everyone in in time and space seems to speak English.

Appropos of nothing that's gone before, anyone been watching Broadchurch? It's got quite a solid Who pedigree, starring David Tennant and Arthur Darvill, and written by Chris Chibnall.

[Aotrs Commander]

Has anyone linked this hilarious 16-bit RPG Doctor Who (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvSk1rosmYY) skit yet?

(Spoilers for first two Moffat seasons, mentioned because I can't remember whose up to what season where!)

Priceless.

[Androgeus]

Has anyone linked this hilarious 16-bit RPG Doctor Who (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvSk1rosmYY) skit yet?

(Spoilers for first two Moffat seasons, mentioned because I can't remember whose up to what season where!)

Priceless.

Yhea, it's like a year old. :smalltongue:

[BRC]

Well American English wouldn't need to be translated, since the Companion could understand it just fine.

What might be fun is a temporary American companion who is hearing everybody with American accents, and gets into a debate with the British companion.

American Companion: Why do these aliens sound Texan?
British Companion: What are you talking about, they sound Scottish?
The Doctor: Actually they largely communicate via phermones and flatulence. The translation matrix is making it more verbal and less... olfactory.

[navar100]

In "Daleks In Manhattan", alleged New Yorker Lazlo tells the Doctor to take the "lift". The proper term, for Americans, is "elevator". That's the bias of the British writers. It's possible no one even noticed the wrong term was used when the show was made. The fake New Yawk accents I let go, New Yorkers really don't talk like that, but when I heard "lift", the show was British all the way.

[Androgeus]

In "Daleks In Manhattan", alleged New Yorker Lazlo tells the Doctor to take the "lift". The proper term, for Americans, is "elevator". That's the bias of the British writers. It's possible no one even noticed the wrong term was used when the show was made. The fake New Yawk accents I let go, New Yorkers really don't talk like that, but when I heard "lift", the show was British all the way.

Tardis Translation Matrix :smalltongue:

[KillianHawkeye]

Tardis Translation Matrix :smalltongue:

Translation matrix is the new perception filter. It explains everything! :smallamused::smallbiggrin:

[Soepvork]

Just managed to catch up on the latest episode last night, and sorry if this has been mentioned before, but, I wonder if the choice of the song 'Hungry like a wolf' might be related to the Bad Wolf. Also, I wonder if the specific line Clara sang (I'm lost and I'm found) might be forboding anything. Or maybe I'm just over analysing everything...

[Corvus]

So the name of the season finale is

The Name of the Doctor (http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/doctorwho/articles/The-Name-of-the-Finale)

[BWR]

Actually, the TARDIS translation matrix is the old TARDIS translation matrix. It was introduced way back when, 1st Doctor, IIRC. Certainly by the 4th (as I remember it was mentioned in Hand of Fear). It was a bit wonky then too.

I'm stoked that this second half of the season has more references to the old stuff, like mentioning Susan and Ice Warrios, but I'm annoyed at the Doctor trying to save the day and then having his companion (whether it was Amy in her first season) or Clara (twice in a row) doing it better.

[Hopeless]

Has anyone linked this hilarious 16-bit RPG Doctor Who (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvSk1rosmYY) skit yet?

(Spoilers for first two Moffat seasons, mentioned because I can't remember whose up to what season where!)

Priceless.

Yes thanks for the link it certainly brightened up my day!:smallbiggrin:

[navar100]

Just managed to catch up on the latest episode last night, and sorry if this has been mentioned before, but, I wonder if the choice of the song 'Hungry like a wolf' might be related to the Bad Wolf. Also, I wonder if the specific line Clara sang (I'm lost and I'm found) might be forboding anything. Or maybe I'm just over analysing everything...

Forgot about that. It also piqued my interest because of that Bad Wolf theory I read as well as Rose being in the season finale. Nothing in a tv show is there by accident. It could be just a coincidence or perhaps an in-joke, but we'll have to wait until the finale to know if it's anything more than that. :smallsmile:

[Androgeus]

D:"What's the opposite of bliss?"
C:"Carlisle"

Oi!

Other than that episode was pretty average

[Sunken Valley]

Been Missing Me? As penance, here's a double bill

The Cold War


Stuff I liked
The Outer Ice Warrior design was brilliant. Also, the reveal that the Ice Warrior was out of armour. Which is foreshadowed in the sequence where Clara talks to him, his mouth never moves.

Clara is shaping up to be a better companion than the Pond's

Episode was tense and entertaing overall.


Stuff I didn't like
[SPOILER] I'll skip the no Russian accents, but there was nothing there that linked the episode to Russia at all. It could have been any submarine with Nukes in the Cold War.

The Inner Ice Warrior special effects were terrible. The hands were worse than the Self Loathing beast off Red Dwarf and the head looked out of place on the practical CGI.

The episode was entirely based on conincidence and contrivance. The crazy soldier just happened to melt the Ice Warrior. The TARDIS just happened to have ported away.

The soldier's who were mutilated, they didn't show it. I can see why but the rule is show not tell. If you have to tone it down a bit, you make the Ice Warrior look more of a threat than just people's reactions to that we do not see.

Speaking of which, the Ice Warrior got clean away with his killings. I don't care about mercy, Karma Houdini.




7/10

Hide



Stuff I liked
This episode scared me!

I liked how Clara and the TARDIS's animosity is a plot point that will likely cover S7.

I liked the idea of the pocket universe and how all the little details were explained.

I liked Clara's musing that to the Doctor, we are all ghosts.


Stuff I didn't like
What was up with that thing at the end. I didn't get it.

The TARDIS can't talk. The Doctor's wife was so big because the TARDIS can't talk. Let's Kill Hitler established the TARDIS can't talk. The TARDIS can't talk. Why can it talk now?

I would ask what goals Emma had beyond loving the Professor because let's face it, it's what's expected of me. But the episode was so good I'll let it go.


Fun Fact
Neil Cross wrote Ghost film Mama, which is awesome





9/10.

Finally, theory I thought of but never seen anywhere.

Victoria Clara was born on 23 November (according to her tombstone). Same date as Doctor Who. Same date as Kennedy was shot. Kennedy's killer had the surname Oswald. Clara has the surname Oswald. Nobody would make that potentially offensive connection without a reason. Anyone?

[Strawberries]

Definitely a "meh" for me.

Yup, the Tardis talking thing pissed me off as well. There IS a precedent, though, in "let's kill Hitler", if you remember...

...but overall, not scary nor particularly interesting. There are some aspect I wish would have been expanded on more, to be honest.

A thing I liked: the Doctor finally, finally showing again that he cares about ALL life, not just human life. It had been a while.

@Sunken

I would ask what goals Emma had beyond loving the Professor because let's face it, it's what's expected of me. But the episode was so good I'll let it go.
Let it go, but not because the episode was good, because the objection doesn't make sense. What goals does the Professor have beyond loving Emma, come to think of it? Emma had a way more dynamic role than him.

[BWR]

It was ok. And man are they throwing around references to old stuff. Crystals from Metabilis 3 made my day.

So in Rings of Akhaten (sp?) we have Susan mentioned (D1), Ice Warriors (D2) last episode, Metabilis 3 crystals (D3) this episode. Bets on that something from Tom Bakers time will be referenced next episode?

[Aotrs Commander]

New episode:
Not bad, not earth-shattering. Not else much to say, really.

Eye of harmony reference... nice.

Next week looks more interesting.

[BWR]

Just realized that the cloister bells are from D4. What will come from D5, do you think?

[Eldan]

I liked it a lot, actually. few weird bits here and there, overall nice.

Also, the Tardis spent at least 12 seconds in the pocket universe. Its prediction was wrong.

[dps]

I liked this one. Still didn't bet any obvious clues about Clara, but that's OK. It was paced just about right--neither the setup nor the resolution seemed unduly rushed.

[Spacewolf]

Was the cold circle ever explained or was that just the location of the disc thing at that point?

[Dienekes]

Was the cold circle ever explained or was that just the location of the disc thing at that point?

Never explained as far as I can figure.

Overall I enjoyed the episode. Much more than the sing-a-long one anyway.

One thing that stood out for me. The girl was running for millennia, which was explained because the pocket dimension moves very slowly compared to the real one.

So what was the rush in getting the psychic girl back to help the doctor. She could have waited for herself to be back up to 100%, days later, and the Doctor wouldn't have noticed.

Also, the TARDIS talking. I think they were trying to do the voice interface. But in Let's Kill Hitler, the TARDIS being able to say 2 non-scripted words to the Doctor was a big deal. This one seemed to have too much personality, or something.

[LokeyITP]

Face facts, the more sexism, the better the ep :)

Best ep of this half of the season so far. Probably because of some easy-to-miss things (which is normal), but watching it straight and not paying too much attention I think it'd still be pretty good.

Unfortunately didn't get to pay close attention to the important Clara/Tardis bit, so nothing to add/subtract there.

[navar100]

The finale is May 18th. Unfortunately for me there's a real chance I won't get to see it. Anyone know if it will be rebroadcast on a different weekend or weekday?

[Giggling Ghast]

I liked it. The hideous abomination found love! It gives me hope for my own dating life. :smalltongue:

[Strawberries]

The finale is May 18th. Unfortunately for me there's a real chance I won't get to see it. Anyone know if it will be rebroadcast on a different weekend or weekday?

BBC iplayer is your friend. :smallsmile:

[Corvus]

Is it just me, or did the Professor look a little young for the age he was meant to be?

[Hopeless]

The finale is May 18th. Unfortunately for me there's a real chance I won't get to see it. Anyone know if it will be rebroadcast on a different weekend or weekday?

Its repeated, on Watch I think where are you watching this from and whats your idea of an ideal time to watch the program assuming you can't access bbc iplayer?

[Aotrs Commander]

Dammit.

I had an astoudingly good Doctor Who dream last night... It was semi-coherent (as my dreams often are) and involved the (eleventh) Doctor going to a planet (on his own) to look for a woman who was history's greatest gravitational... analyst? Surveyor? Something. Anyway, his reason being that he was going to get her to use some sort of gravitational echo or somesuch to build up an accurate picture of Gallifrey, so he could just look at it again. (This was revealed as the dream went on.)

Anyway, the planet had been taken over by some crazy entity of some sort, who ran an asylum that the Doctor had liberated in a previous episode (yes, even my dreams make up continunity...) who had somehow survived being killed and possessed one of the inmates and moved the whole operation here. Who of course the Doctor immediately ran afoul of.

The Doctor ended up running across an old junk yard/battle field, chased by the entity-animated bodies of the dead Transformers that littered it (including a very obviously not-Optimus Prime - he had a very clearly not-quite-Autobot symbol, because, logically, copyright - yes, my dreams are that coherent).

Anyway, the Doctor ended up confronting the thingy (in the body of another females) and something had happened to the woman he was going to see or something (it was a bit hazy between the highlights, because dream) and getting more angry than he had ever been in his life: "Do you have any idea what you've cost me?" (Seriously, she was brickin' herself and she had been mind-controlling/mentally animating all the inmates and dead Transformers until this point.)

So somehow (with sonics) the Doctor nicked control of two guard-type ladies from the bad guy/girl (I think the possessing entity was originalyl male) and set them up, using their shield generators to hold the entrance to a gantry with the important gravity machine against the mind-controlled mooks, while he was fiddling with it and basically appeared too be working up to completely ruin the bad guy's day (and presumably break his/her control) - and then I woke up.

And was like "nooooooo! Can't stop there, I wanna see the climax, dammit!"

That's gotta go down as one of my better dreams, right up there with the time I went solving mysteries with the dinobots that one time.

[Calemyr]

I don't get the mystique about Oswald, really. I mean, I like her, I really do. But the obvious answer is bloody obvious and the Doctor never mentions it:

Present day Oswald is just a normal girl with a good brain and good control over her emotions. The catch is that she's the root of the anomaly, not just another branch. She's the original Clara Oswald, and all of the quirks the other Oswalds showed ("Oswin", "Run you clever boy and remember", etc) are all echos of this Oswald's experiences.

Yet, despite the simplicity of "what's special about her hasn't happened yet", the Doctor is still obsessed with the idea that this one is the impossible one.

[Ebon_Drake]

Just watched the latest one on i-Player. Pretty good IMO, certainly after several mediocre episodes. I often think Doctor Who spends a lot of time on establishing a solid premise only to rush the conclusion, but thankfully this one felt decently paced.


I liked it. The hideous abomination found love! It gives me hope for my own dating life. :smalltongue:
:smallbiggrin:


Was the cold circle ever explained or was that just the location of the disc thing at that point?

That's what I assumed. it's mentioned that the portal they were crossing through was a wormhole into the pocket universe, so I figured all the appearances of circles/wells/etc were how the wormhole was manifesting - coupled with a bit of classic ghostly goings-on.

[factotum]

Is it just me, or did the Professor look a little young for the age he was meant to be?

Dougray Scott is 48, so the onscreen character would have been born in 1926 if he was the same age as that--which would definitely have made him a little young to have participated majorly in WW2! However, you'd only need to add five years to that age to get someone who *could* genuinely have done all the stuff the Doctor implied he did during the War--it's amazing how young some of those people were.

(See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eileen_Nearne for a perfect example).

[KillianHawkeye]

Seems like we got the first moderately frightening episode since Blink. I enjoyed it.

[Kato]

I liked it. The hideous abomination found love! It gives me hope for my own dating life. :smalltongue:
QFT.


I don't get the mystique about Oswald, really. I mean, I like her, I really do. But the obvious answer is bloody obvious and the Doctor never mentions it:

Seems reasonable but the Doctor can't be sure that's the reason. Also, as it would be unlikely (at least somewhat) for one of the results to be the born before the cause. But that's timey wimey...
So, yeah, it's probably but it doesn't mean the Doctor has to rely on it.


Seems like we got the first moderately frightening episode since Blink. I enjoyed it.
Hm.. while there is really little that scares me I'd say there have been worse episodes overall. Like the ones with the dolls.


Overall, I liked the episode. Nothing amazing but again quite decent. I especially liked the final twist and the reveal about the Ghost.
I didn't really bother with the Clara/Tardis scene, I put it down to the interface but I guess I'll need to watch it again to be sure.
The story with the ghost hunters was... okay.


Anything new pointing towards the Rose conspiracy theories this week? I didn't notice anything.

[dps]

Dougray Scott is 48, so the onscreen character would have been born in 1926 if he was the same age as that--which would definitely have made him a little young to have participated majorly in WW2! However, you'd only need to add five years to that age to get someone who *could* genuinely have done all the stuff the Doctor implied he did during the War--it's amazing how young some of those people were.

(See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eileen_Nearne for a perfect example).

Not sure about British service but you can join the US armed forces at 17. So someone born in 1926 could have joined up in 1943 and served during the last 3 years of the war. OTOH, the intelligence-type operations it seemed the character was involved in would suggest an older, more experienced soldier (though not necessarily all that older). So overall, maybe a bit young for the roll, but not by much.

[thorgrim29]

Christopher Lee was in the Baker Street Irregulars and he was born in 1922, so he's in the right ballpark at least.

[navar100]

Nice twist that the "monster" wasn't really a monster. Finally the Doctor offers to help the foe as a friend, and the foe accepts. The Ice Warrior showed mercy, but it's not quite the same. I contrast it with the Racnoss Queen, where the Doctor offered to bring her and children to a new world to live happily ever after but she refused. Even in Classic Who the Doctor offers the foe help but is rebuffed again and again. It really is nice the offer is accepted for once.

As it turned out arrangements can be made for me to watch the finale even if not the first moment it's on, so I should be ok. :smallsmile:

[CoffeeIncluded]

Personally I think the best part of yesterday's episode was the whole sequence

Where Clara's warned that the Doctor has "a sliver of ice in his heart," and then gets a glimpse of it when they go through the entire lifespan of the planet in the space of a few minutes for the photos. And the Doctor simply does not understand why Clara's so shaken by it until she spells it out for him.

[navar100]

Dammit.

I had an astoudingly good Doctor Who dream last night... It was semi-coherent (as my dreams often are) and involved the (eleventh) Doctor going to a planet (on his own) to look for a woman who was history's greatest gravitational... analyst? Surveyor? Something. Anyway, his reason being that he was going to get her to use some sort of gravitational echo or somesuch to build up an accurate picture of Gallifrey, so he could just look at it again. (This was revealed as the dream went on.)


Funny, I had a Doctor Who dream last night as well. It was my version of the finale. Something went wrong causing the Doctor to regenerate into his past selves. First Matt Smith turns into David Tennant. As the Doctor continues looking for the cure, he turns into Christopher Eccleston. Then he becomes Paul McGann. When he turns into Sylvester McCoy he finds the cure. The details are fuzzy now.

[BWR]

I remember maybe 2 dreams a year, not very much and they are never as interesting as these.
I am so damn jealous.

[navar100]

I remember maybe 2 dreams a year, not very much and they are never as interesting as these.
I am so damn jealous.

There are still a couple of dreams and nightmares I had as a kid I still remember. There's a very cool one regarding Buck Rogers in the 25th Century (Gil Gerard version). :smallsmile:

[The Extinguisher]

Funny, I had a Doctor Who dream last night as well. It was my version of the finale. Something went wrong causing the Doctor to regenerate into his past selves. First Matt Smith turns into David Tennant. As the Doctor continues looking for the cure, he turns into Christopher Eccleston. Then he becomes Paul McGann. When he turns into Sylvester McCoy he finds the cure. The details are fuzzy now.

I would watch that special. Maybe do it for the last Doctor.

[Kato]

Personally I think the best part of yesterday's episode was the whole sequence

Where Clara's warned that the Doctor has "a sliver of ice in his heart," and then gets a glimpse of it when they go through the entire lifespan of the planet in the space of a few minutes for the photos. And the Doctor simply does not understand why Clara's so shaken by it until she spells it out for him.

While I can see why Clara was so shaken by it... I don't think I think anymore of it than the Doctor. Admittedly, I never really perceived it from that angle but that is because I never noticed the Doctor to not care about anyone (if I understood what she was going for) so while Clara doesn't know the Doctor that long we know (or from what we know I think can tell) he doesn't think of anyone as "just a ghost".

The whole "sliver of ice" thing also was much too vague for me but if that was what they were going for... I'm not pleased with it. Not angry just... not pleased.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Just realized that the cloister bells are from D4. What will come from D5, do you think?
....OH. Cloister bell. AHAHAHAHAHA.

[Hopeless]

....OH. Cloister bell. AHAHAHAHAHA.

What are they referring to by "D4" or "D5" regarding the cloister bells?

[Weezer]

What are they referring to by "D4" or "D5" regarding the cloister bells?

D4 is Fourth Doctor, and during his tenure a cloister bell was introduced as the Tardis's way of giving alarm/warning the Doctor of impending danger. It was first heard in Logopolis, and it was warning of the

Impending destruction of the universe from one of the Master's plans falling apart as well as the Fourth Doctor's regeneration.

It's been heard a bunch of times in New Who as well, though never super obviously or specifically mentioned.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

D4 is Fourth Doctor, and during his tenure a cloister bell was introduced as the Tardis's way of giving alarm/warning the Doctor of impending danger. It was first heard in Logopolis, and it was warning of the

Impending destruction of the universe from one of the Master's plans falling apart as well as the Fourth Doctor's regeneration.

It's been heard a bunch of times in New Who as well, though never super obviously or specifically mentioned.
I can't place it, but I think that it was mentioned in an episode. Something like a cursory "the Cloister Bell!"

Also, forget my amusement above. My memory was criscrossing wires and misremembering what the Bells of St. John were. Thus finding a joke that didn't exist (a "cloister bell" at a monastery).

[factotum]

Re: Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS:


I am really not impressed with this episode at all. It had a few interesting ideas, but they were buried under the illogicalities...plus I thought everyone had got sick of episodes being resolved using the Big Reset Button about halfway through Voyager's run?

Oh, and don't get me started on the guy who thought he was a robot. Yeah, that would have worked right up until the point he needed to sleep, or eat, or perform another bodily function that taste forbids me from describing...

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Re: Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS:


I am really not impressed with this episode at all. It had a few interesting ideas, but they were buried under the illogicalities...plus I thought everyone had got sick of episodes being resolved using the Big Reset Button about halfway through Voyager's run?

Oh, and don't get me started on the guy who thought he was a robot. Yeah, that would have worked right up until the point he needed to sleep, or eat, or perform another bodily function that taste forbids me from describing...


Very much agreed on the not-being-impressed. I actually found myself fast-forwarding through parts of the episode (yay Tivo!), which I don't recall doing for any episode in the past two seasons at least.

As for the guy being an android, yeah, that could have been handled better. Even a throwaway line like "But you said I had to eat human food for raw materials and power down every night to recharge my batteries!" "Yeah, and you believed it! Ha, sucker!" would have made it at least slightly believable.

[BWR]

Bland and entirely pointless.

I did like the whispers from earlier incarnations and companions. I'm sure I heard Susan and Ian there, and I think Zoe at one point.

[Eldan]

Meh. Wait, that's too short. Meeeeeeh.


So. Dude thinking he's a cyborg. Stupid.

People salvaging the Tardis: great starting idea for an episode. Went nowhere.

A few nice sets, but apart from the libary, we didn't get a good look at any of them, did we. Eye of Harmony was nice. Is the Heart of the Tardis really just some kind of spherical metal object in a white void? That would be disappointing.

Wasn't there just one Eye of Harmony in Classic Who, which was a giant big thing? As in, found by Rassilon, source of power of the entire Time Lord civilisation, that kind of thing? And now there's one in every Tardis?

Monsters looked really underwhelming. Potential explanation might have resulted in something nice, but it was really resolved too quickly. No real emotional reactions from anyone.


Another episode that would probably have faired better was a two-parter.

[factotum]

Eye of Harmony:


There was definitely a Jon Pertwee episode I remember where Gallifrey was under some sort of assault and they were using the Doctor to try and fix the issue. I distinctly remember a line in that episode that went something like "We're directing as much power to the Doctor's TARDIS as we can", which would imply the Eye of Harmony is actually on Gallifrey but sends its power somehow remotely to the TARDIS.

How that fits in with the whole "Gallifrey being stuck in a temporal loop in order to prevent the Time Lords going out of control", I have no idea...

[Aotrs Commander]

I thought it was an okay episode. Not as good as I might have liked, but not terrible either.

[Calemyr]

Meh. Wait, that's too short. Meeeeeeh.


So. Dude thinking he's a cyborg. Stupid.

People salvaging the Tardis: great starting idea for an episode. Went nowhere.

A few nice sets, but apart from the libary, we didn't get a good look at any of them, did we. Eye of Harmony was nice. Is the Heart of the Tardis really just some kind of spherical metal object in a white void? That would be disappointing.

Wasn't there just one Eye of Harmony in Classic Who, which was a giant big thing? As in, found by Rassilon, source of power of the entire Time Lord civilisation, that kind of thing? And now there's one in every Tardis?

Monsters looked really underwhelming. Potential explanation might have resulted in something nice, but it was really resolved too quickly. No real emotional reactions from anyone.


Another episode that would probably have faired better was a two-parter.

Season 7 in a nutshell. Another summary for every episode so far would be "interesting premise, wasted potential". Moffat seems to be so dead set on making each episode huge that he fails to live up to what he's promising. If this were the era of serials, he'd be incredible, but as it stands it's just kinda disappointing. And I'm not a Moffat hater.

[BWR]

Eye of Harmony:


There was definitely a Jon Pertwee episode I remember where Gallifrey was under some sort of assault and they were using the Doctor to try and fix the issue. I distinctly remember a line in that episode that went something like "We're directing as much power to the Doctor's TARDIS as we can", which would imply the Eye of Harmony is actually on Gallifrey but sends its power somehow remotely to the TARDIS.

How that fits in with the whole "Gallifrey being stuck in a temporal loop in order to prevent the Time Lords going out of control", I have no idea...


The Three Doctors, which had the first 3 Doctors team up to stop Omega, pioneer of Time Lord tech, from destroying Gallifrey. I don't know whether the Eye of Harmony was ever mentioned in the episode, but I think that was a later invention. There is no reason to believe that the TARDIS is primarily powered by an external power source. Indeed, all other sources indicate the opposite.

I just interpret this transfer of power as a little extra help from home.


As for the quality of writing in Moffat's run in general (and I've commented this about other writers) he should try writing good stories not great ones. If you can do good stories, great ones often come easier. Not every story has to be the end of the TARDIS/world/galaxy/universe.
Look at the best stories of nuWho. They weren't the 'save the universe' stories (which, let's face it, have been pretty lousy).

[CarpeGuitarrem]

There was one thing I really liked about the episode:
The Doctor finally coming to terms with what appears to be Oswin Prime. No more mystery, nothing beyond accepting her as she is. Unfortunate that this no longer comes to pass, due to time meddling, but it means that when put in a similar situation, he'll manage to come to that conclusion.

It was just a really nicely played-out bit.

[Hullabaloo]

With a trip to the center of the TARDIS, I thought it would be a good time to rewatch The Doctors Wife. Really liked that one, and makes me look forward to Gaiman's next one.

*EDIT*
Dr. Who texts with batman and superman

http://textsfromsuperheroes.com/image/48640121368

[Sunken Valley]

I was so sad that the forum was dead. It meant I couldn't say how rubbish, how completely abysmally rubbish, how messed up and ruined, this episode is



Stuff I liked
We got to see the TARDIS. And it was well lit too.

Clara was good. Although once again she only saved the day through another's actions.

The future zombie caused an actual on-screen death of a character played by an actor! No other villain on series 7 has managed to make tension that way.


Stuff I didn't like
The start of the episode was extremely contrived.

The crew members were unlikable. The eldest brother was stupid (although to be fair Ashley Walters is stupid in real life) and kept that orb even though it was killing them all. Just like that stupid pirate.

Were we supposed to feel sympathetic for the salvagers? I wasn't.

That robot subplot. It makes no sense, for reasons people had said. But it also makes no sense from a story perspective. What does it add to the episode? In fact, it take away because the robot could feel the TARDIS pain.

Why would the not-robot recommend chopping his arm off? They didn't need to chop his arm off in the end.

Why did the future zombies attack and kill people?

After the death of the salvagers, why does the TARDIS still act up.

The ending makes no sense.

Clara is denied agency and a say in the events unfolding around her by having her mind wiped. That conversation was important.

Similarly, the ending seems to imply the not-robot knows he's not a robot what with the picture. What does that mean?

The episode was needlessly dark when it should have been either fun or tense. Instead it was morbidly depressing, compounded by the addition of a needless subplot. Just like that stupid pirate and his stupid son.




3/10. Ruining Episode 10's record of always being the best or one of the best episodes.

Never write an episode of Dr Who again Thompson. I don't know what you did with Reichenbach Fall but stay on Sherlock. I don't care if your episodes show the big bad at random every 20 minutes. I don't care if you randomly give us a clue Sherlock saw but the audience never had a chance. I don't care if you give us so much yellow peril that the Siamese Cats would blush. Never go back to Who and mess up a good premise.

[factotum]

Harsh, as we've come to expect from you, Sunken Valley, but in this case, I can't say it's not fair comment. :smallsmile:

[comicshorse]

Season 7 in a nutshell. Another summary for every episode so far would be "interesting premise, wasted potential". Moffat seems to be so dead set on making each episode huge that he fails to live up to what he's promising. If this were the era of serials, he'd be incredible, but as it stands it's just kinda disappointing. And I'm not a Moffat hater.

I'd agree. The Season so far does leave me with a 'so what' feeling. It just seems to lack a certain spark to push it into actually being interesting

[Calemyr]

I was so sad that the forum was dead. It meant I couldn't say how rubbish, how completely abysmally rubbish, how messed up and ruined, this episode is



Stuff I liked
We got to see the TARDIS. And it was well lit too.

Clara was good. Although once again she only saved the day through another's actions.

The future zombie caused an actual on-screen death of a character played by an actor! No other villain on series 7 has managed to make tension that way.


Stuff I didn't like
The start of the episode was extremely contrived.

The crew members were unlikable. The eldest brother was stupid (although to be fair Ashley Walters is stupid in real life) and kept that orb even though it was killing them all. Just like that stupid pirate.

Were we supposed to feel sympathetic for the salvagers? I wasn't.

That robot subplot. It makes no sense, for reasons people had said. But it also makes no sense from a story perspective. What does it add to the episode? In fact, it take away because the robot could feel the TARDIS pain.

Why would the not-robot recommend chopping his arm off? They didn't need to chop his arm off in the end.

Why did the future zombies attack and kill people?

After the death of the salvagers, why does the TARDIS still act up.

The ending makes no sense.

Clara is denied agency and a say in the events unfolding around her by having her mind wiped. That conversation was important.

Similarly, the ending seems to imply the not-robot knows he's not a robot what with the picture. What does that mean?

The episode was needlessly dark when it should have been either fun or tense. Instead it was morbidly depressing, compounded by the addition of a needless subplot. Just like that stupid pirate and his stupid son.




3/10. Ruining Episode 10's record of always being the best or one of the best episodes.

Never write an episode of Dr Who again Thompson. I don't know what you did with Reichenbach Fall but stay on Sherlock. I don't care if your episodes show the big bad at random every 20 minutes. I don't care if you randomly give us a clue Sherlock saw but the audience never had a chance. I don't care if you give us so much yellow peril that the Siamese Cats would blush. Never go back to Who and mess up a good premise.

I said I wasn't impressed and I stand by that, but I feel like you're intentionally missing things with this.


The crew are definitely unlikable, other than Tricky. Even if you leave the arrogance, the betrayal, the unthinking malice... even if you leave that behind, they're using illegal tech to destroy ships so that they can salvage them. Tricky is a bit likable, but I found myself cheering when Big Brother got killed off. (Leader was the Middle Brother, because the really dumb one referred to him as his "kid brother".)

The robot subplot *was* stupid, but it added one very simple thing to the story. Middle Brother suddenly shows a slightest bit of decency in the new timeline, and uses the exact same phrasing the Doctor used regarding it. This means that Clara is likely to still have the memories from the day that never happened, but hasn't been able to access it. The Doctor almost certainly remembers events, as he points out the "2 days in 1" and is adamant in figuring out whether Clara remembers fearing the TARDIS or him.

Also, Tricky (the "robot") was empathizing with the TARDIS because he believed he could. Most people treat her like a machine (as Clara does), but the Doctor and the audience know better. Tricky believes he should be able to, and therefore his empathy isn't blocked by his own preconceptions. He doubtlessly wasn't as sensitive to the TARDIS as he imagined himself to be, but he was willing to see what others were not.

The timeline of the episode is fairly straightforward in a sense.
1) Doctor sets up Clara to pilot.
2) The Dimwit Bros see the TARDIS appear.
3) The Magna-Grab (or whatever it was called) catches the TARDIS. The Magna-Grab control appears in the TARDIS and burns Clara's hand, but is dropped and forgotten.
4A) The TARDIS engine explodes due to continued exposure to the Magna-Grab. It freezes the engine room to buy time, but it's heart has already stopped.
5A) Doctor steals the Magna-Grab control from the Dimwit Bros and then blackmails them into helping find Clara.
6A) Clara obtained.
7A) The survivors reach the Eye of Harmony.
8A) Doctor and Clara get to the engine Room and realize what happened.
9A) Doctor carves "Big Friendly Button" on the Magna-Grab control and throws it back in time, like he did previously, but this time sticks his head in to explain.
4B) Doctor trusts himself, grabs the Magna-Grab control, and disables it before it can destroy the TARDIS.
5B) Dimwit Bros fly off, disappointed that the TARDIS was some sort of illusion, with Evil Dimwit scolding Stupid Dimwit for teasing Deluded Dimwit. This shows that 4A-9A aren't completely removed from their minds.
6B) Doctor shows a similar awareness, but plays it off as his usual nonsense.

The Time Zombies disappeared after they left the Eye of Harmony intact. The TARDIS engine, however, has already exploded at that point.

Dark? Filled with pointless filler? A waste of great potential? Yes on all points. But we won't know what was pointless filler and what was important for the future plot until it comes, because Moffat learned that at least from the teaser at the Byzantium.

[Eldan]

The big button was the grab control? I didn't even realize that. I thought it was just a general magic get well button that the Doctor had pulled from somewhere. That improves the episode by half a point or so.

I'm mainly just wondering why no one seemed to react much to the "These fire zombies are you from the future!" revelation. You'd think that would shock people.

[Calemyr]

I'm mainly just wondering why no one seemed to react much to the "These fire zombies are you from the future!" revelation. You'd think that would shock people.

In fairness:
This revelation kinda hit them while sharing a room with a freaking star in perpetual decay. Seriously. Imagine running from zombies, walking into a room with a bloody sun, and then getting told you are going to die and become those zombies. I think there's so much to consider that people might have a problem picking what to freak out about first.

Also remember that, while Evil and Deluded Dimwit aren't as dumb as Stupid Dimwit, they are not really thinkers of the year. I doubt either of them really even thought about it. The horror in Clara's eyes, however, is clear until it gets lost in the confusion of how many times the Doctor has seen her die.

[Strawberries]

Alright, about this episode.

I didn't love it, but I thought it was okay, honestly. The big reset button made me laugh... it's so much in your face that it HAS to be self-irony. Which, I suppose, may not be everyone's cup of tea, but it worked for me this one time.

Yeah, I didn't like Clara's memories being re-set either, but I figure that that snippet at the end with the three Dumb, Dumber and Dumbest brothers was there to point out that there was something more to it... all in all, I had fun. I'd say a 5.5 out of ten for me

[Avaris]

Honestly, I actually liked it. Probably the weakest this half season, but for me thats quite a high bar.

I especially liked the doctor tricking the salvagers into helping, showed how scary and crazy he can be when you wreck his ship and loose his companion. The interplay with Clara was good as well, with her fear of what was on the tardis with them, and what he wasn't telling her.

A lot of missed opportunities though. The history of the time war... Forget his name, clara should have found out what he did to his people; who the doctor is is far more than his name, and Clara hasn't seen this yet. Equally, would have been nice to spend time away from the corridors, though given the tardis mood it makes narrative sense. Wiping memories was a bit of a cop out unless there are ramifications later, but at least the exploding tardis from a while back has been explained

[navar100]

The robot subplot *was* stupid, but it added one very simple thing to the story. Middle Brother suddenly shows a slightest bit of decency in the new timeline, and uses the exact same phrasing the Doctor used regarding it. This means that Clara is likely to still have the memories from the day that never happened, but hasn't been able to access it. The Doctor almost certainly remembers events, as he points out the "2 days in 1" and is adamant in figuring out whether Clara remembers fearing the TARDIS or him.


It has nothing to do with Clara. He remembers when time reset because the Doctor told him to. The same thing happened with Amy in Big Bang when the Doctor told Amy to remember him. We're not told specifically, but I think it's one of the Doctor's psionic abilities - a post-hypnotic/time rift suggestion.

[dps]

I've generally liked this season so far, but this was definately a "meh" episode.

I generally hate it when they hit the reset button, but I didn't mind it as much in this episode as I do in most because it was foreshadowed (we see the magna-grabber control roll into the Tardis, we see Clara grab it and get burned, and then we later see the Doctor swipe it from the salvagers).

Otherwise, while I didn't dislike it a much as many people did, I do agree with most of the criticisms.

[LokeyITP]

As Factotum called. Add that now we know where last week's vfx budget went and are sad :)

I don't really see a way to salvage the general plot, there has to be tons of better ways to introduce the arc points you need...

That said, the creatures were creepy and that concept is good (and the scene of that reveal was well done).

[Friv]

I was going to declare this the weakest Moffat episode, but then I remembered the Hungry Earth two-parter.

But it did have a major saving grace - if you don't watch it, there is no effect on continuity. ;)

(More seriously, I quite liked the various neat rooms, and there was a lot of potential in the concept "Doctor and some salvagers search a damaged TARDIS for Clara". It just didn't... happen, largely due to poor writing and indifferent acting that made me really not believe anything the three salvagers did.)

[Dienekes]

Just reiterating mostly. Awesome concept, flawed execution. The android thing made me declare that made no sense. They also seemed rather boring characters.

There were parts that had so much potential, I enjoyed the grandeur of the library immensely. Though that might be because I love libraries.

I actually think the concept of the threat was interesting, and I didn't have a problem with their appearance. Though watching the conjoined twins move was vaguely amusing.

So overall, ehh.

[navar100]

It was nice they showed the pool that was necessary to catch a falling River Song that one time.

Given the winks to Classic Who here and there, I was hoping Clara would run into a Classic Who Control Room. The long used Simple White Room could have easily been remade for a set. Oh well.

[Aidan305]

Eye of Harmony:


There was definitely a Jon Pertwee episode I remember where Gallifrey was under some sort of assault and they were using the Doctor to try and fix the issue. I distinctly remember a line in that episode that went something like "We're directing as much power to the Doctor's TARDIS as we can", which would imply the Eye of Harmony is actually on Gallifrey but sends its power somehow remotely to the TARDIS.

How that fits in with the whole "Gallifrey being stuck in a temporal loop in order to prevent the Time Lords going out of control", I have no idea...


The Eye of Harmony was moved on to the TARDIS at some point in Seven's era. IIRC the (unfortunately abysmal but canon) plot of the 8th Doctor's appearance on screen revolved around it in some way.

[Eldan]

But it did have a major saving grace - if you don't watch it, there is no effect on continuity. ;)


I wouldn't be so sure. I'm reasonably certain that the damage the Tardis took in this episode is the crack in the wall from Moffat's first season. It looks very similar, at least.

[Hopeless]

I wouldn't be so sure. I'm reasonably certain that the damage the Tardis took in this episode is the crack in the wall from Moffat's first season. It looks very similar, at least.

So would that mean at some point he'll swap TARDISes with his earlier version thereby setting up the plot of the fifth season of nu-who?

Previously trying to go through that crack would have erased you from time and space so... does this mean the revelation is that he's now ascended ala Rassilon's attempt in the last of the time lords?

By that I mean he's beyond mere time and space now?

Has it been explained why when the Doctor last regenerated why it was so literally explosive?

I assumed the Master tried to take over his body so it was actually two timelord's regenerating and we've yet to realise that...

[Eldan]

Timey-wimey. The damage from this episode resonated back in time. I'm a bit hazy on the details, but wasn't hte plot that the Tardis was exploding because it's drive was damaged? It does seem pretty similar to what happened now.

[Friv]

I wouldn't be so sure. I'm reasonably certain that the damage the Tardis took in this episode is the crack in the wall from Moffat's first season. It looks very similar, at least.

I was under the impression that was just a callback; when the TARDIS gets broken, it creates time cracks just as a general rule. It was certainly the same image, but I didn't think that there was more to it than that - that time crack wasn't devouring the universe.

[JediSoth]

Has it been explained why when the Doctor last regenerated why it was so literally explosive?

I assumed the Master tried to take over his body so it was actually two timelord's regenerating and we've yet to realise that...

I always assumed 10s regeneration was particularly violent because he resisted it for so long. All the previous Doctors pretty much let it happen when it needed to (although you could argue 2 didn't, but they didn't have the special effects then like they did now), but 10 fought against it so he could go around saying goodbye to all his companions until he could hold it in no longer, and even then, he resisted.

[BWR]

I detest the new regeneration sequences. Too showy and bombastic.
What was wrong with the old 'shimmer and new face' approach?
Is it just for teh shaineez?

[Calemyr]

I always assumed 10s regeneration was particularly violent because he resisted it for so long. All the previous Doctors pretty much let it happen when it needed to (although you could argue 2 didn't, but they didn't have the special effects then like they did now), but 10 fought against it so he could go around saying goodbye too all his companions until he could hold it in no longer, and even then, he resisted.

Well, this and the reason for his regeneration was because he just got nuked so bad he should have glowed in the dark.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

I always assumed 10s regeneration was particularly violent because he resisted it for so long. All the previous Doctors pretty much let it happen when it needed to (although you could argue 2 didn't, but they didn't have the special effects then like they did now), but 10 fought against it so he could go around saying goodbye too all his companions until he could hold it in no longer, and even then, he resisted.
Oh, Ten.

"I don't want to gooooooooooooooooooooo..."

[Philistine]

Well, this and the reason for his regeneration was because he just got nuked so bad he should have glowed in the dark.

Funny, because he didn't look like he was suffering from radiation burns. At all.

I think it was just Ten's overwhelming cowardice finally reaching critical mass. "I don't want to go-o-o-o-o!" indeed.

[Reverent-One]

Funny, because he didn't look like he was suffering from radiation burns. At all.

Other than some occasional cringing, Nine looked pretty good for having every cell of his body consumed by the Vortex Energy too. Or there was the time Ten got hit by a (non-fatal to him) dose of radiation from an MRI or something in "Smith and Jones", where he also suffered no visible ill effects before moving it into his shoe and disposing of it.


I think it was just Ten's overwhelming cowardice finally reaching critical mass. "I don't want to go-o-o-o-o!" indeed.

Sadness/regret != Cowardice. I haven't seen an incarnation of the Doctor where calling him a "coward" is the least bit accurate.

[Dienekes]

Yeah, I basically have that pegged as 10s last hissy-fit. We saw with River that you can use regeneration energy as a weapon if you so want to. I'm guessing 10 didn't want the guy who was taking his place to have his room too.

But then I like to look at everything about 10s ending in the worst light. Because it sucked.

[navar100]

Speculation Fun

What could the Doctor's name be to be so important it needs to remain a secret? A well known religious figure name could do it, but that would cause real world bad publicity they're not going to want. It would have to be something in-universe.

One option is the name itself doesn't matter but rather what it can do. His name could be a password or key to something Important that when used would be catastrophic, but it's hard to top an exploding TARDIS destroying the universe. Then again, Gallifrey did want to destroy and remake Time. They could know the Doctor's name, and that's what they would use to do it.

[The Extinguisher]

I desperately want the Doctors name to be "Bob" and the reason he keeps it a secret is because he's embarrassed about how dreadfully boring it is.

[Philistine]

Other than some occasional cringing, Nine looked pretty good for having every cell of his body consumed by the Vortex Energy too. Or there was the time Ten got hit by a (non-fatal to him) dose of radiation from an MRI or something in "Smith and Jones", where he also suffered no visible ill effects before moving it into his shoe and disposing of it.



Sadness/regret != Cowardice. I haven't seen an incarnation of the Doctor where calling him a "coward" is the least bit accurate.

What sadness/regret? That looked to me more like naked fear on Ten's face as the regeneration finally caught up with his overacting self.

And while it's true that (this degree of) physical cowardice was a new addition to Ten's repertoire in "End of Time," Ten had displayed a hilarious degree of moral cowardice all along, ever since his first introduction. Heck, Davros - of all people! - even explicitly called him out on it (and Davros hadn't even seen the showdown between Ten, the Master, and Rasillon in "End of Time")! So, yes. Critical mass of cowardice is about right.

[Reverent-One]

What sadness/regret? That looked to me more like naked fear on Ten's face as the regeneration finally caught up with his overacting self.

And I'd say it's clearly sadness, knowing that his time is up when he doesn't want it to be.


And while it's true that (this degree of) physical cowardice was a new addition to Ten's repertoire in "End of Time," Ten had displayed a hilarious degree of moral cowardice all along, ever since his first introduction. Heck, Davros - of all people! - even explicitly called him out on it (and Davros hadn't even seen the showdown between Ten, the Master, and Rasillon in "End of Time")! So, yes. Critical mass of cowardice is about right.

When Davros is your star witness, you know you're doing something wrong. Of course he'd try to turn the Doctor's capability of inspiring people into a negative.

[Kato]

Way late to the party for Center of the TARDIS...
So to ake it short. I'll have to agree with the majority, the episode was pretty... meh. That said, it had a lot of interesting little bits. The library was nice, the bit with Clara at the cliff worked, I guess the idea for the monsters was... somewhere between okay and good, the one brother was... decent enough, I guess but that doesn't save the fact that the episode would have probably been much better without the whole side cast. Oh, the bit at the beginning with the self destruction was nice, I felt a lot of Hartnell's Doctor from Matt there. btw, has anyone an idea why that one key was labeled "Smith"?
On the whole... yeah, interesting premise quite wasted. I would have wished for something very different...



Speculation Fun

What could the Doctor's name be to be so important it needs to remain a secret? A well known religious figure name could do it, but that would cause real world bad publicity they're not going to want. It would have to be something in-universe.

I feel rather sure we won't learn his name. But it will probably have some effect to know it... though we could guess forever what that might be.



Regarding 10's regeneration... I really only have a problem with the fact how reluctant he was about it. It felt like fan service to the 10 fans and nothing else. Yeah, every Doctor is different and 10 could just think differently about regenerations than the others but it just felt weird to me.

[dps]

Previously trying to go through that crack would have erased you from time and space so... does this mean the revelation is that he's now ascended ala Rassilon's attempt in the last of the time lords?

By that I mean he's beyond mere time and space now?

Well, we saw the Doctor reach into it and pull out a piece of the exploded Tardis. I've always wondered how he did that and survived.


What sadness/regret? That looked to me more like naked fear on Ten's face as the regeneration finally caught up with his overacting self.

It was always my understanding (granted, possibly my mistaken understanding) that part of the reason for his behaviour was that he was afraid that he'd regenerate into the Valeyard.

[Aotrs Commander]

It was always my understanding (granted, possibly my mistaken understanding) that part of the reason for his behaviour was that he was afraid that he'd regenerate into the Valeyard.

Nah, I think that's supposed to be eleven or twelve or twelve and thirteen, isn't it? (The last one, anyway as Time Lords only get twelve or thirteen. Normally. I'm guessing the Doctor will somehow manage to accrue more as as when the time comes!)

On checking, it's twelve and thirteen, so it's theoretically Smith's successor's problem...

Frag, I do hope they address that when the time comes, because it could so staggeringly awesome.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Nah, I think that's supposed to be eleven or twelve or twelve and thirteen, isn't it? (The last one, anyway as Time Lords only get twelve or thirteen. Normally. I'm guessing the Doctor will somehow manage to accrue more as as when the time comes!)

On checking, it's twelve and thirteen, so it's theoretically Smith's successor's problem...

Frag, I do hope they address that when the time comes, because it could so staggeringly awesome.

Wasn't it orginally supposed to be nine regenerations?