Building a Samurai

[prufock]

No, I'm not referring to the class from Complete Warrior.

I'm making a backup character for my current campaign. Level 8, possibly progressing to low- or mid-teens. The concept is frontline melee, capable on horseback but also in a standup fight. I'm looking at Iaijutsu focus. He should have decent social skills. Personality-wise, he's a big damn hero.

Limited Source List: PHB, PHB2, DMG, MM, Miniatures Handbook, and the 3.0 books Masters of the Wild, Sword and Fist, and Song and Silence. Might be able to get a few feats/spells approved from other sources.

I'm going to try to get Oriental Adventures approved so I can take Iaijutsu Master, but this is not a guarantee.

I'm looking for opinions or build ideas. Specific questions are bolded. My current idea for a build is:
Str 18, Dex 16, Con 18, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 20
Human Marshal 1/Paladin 5 - takes me to level 6, using Motivate Charisma to boost social skills and Iaijutsu with double cha bonus.

After this I'm unsure. Two fighter levels would give me some bonus feats, since I'm starving for those. Currently I'd pick Quick Draw, Improved Initiative, Mounted Combat, and Ride-by Attack. With 2 fighter levels I'd take Spirited Charge and Power Attack.

On the other hand, 2 more levels of marshal would let me take another aura, for which I'd pick either Over the Top for bonus charging damage (using a lance from horseback) or Motivate Dexterity for the Initiative boost. What would be the best marshal auras to pick?

If OA is in play, I have to grab weapon focus to get into Iaijutsu Master. The OA samurai class could be a good choice here, as it would give me Iaijutsu Focus as a class skill. If OA is not in play, would it be worth grabbing a level of the (sigh) NPC expert class to get IF as a class skill?

Presuming OA is not approved, where would you go after level 8 or 9?

Other feat ideas I had were Ki Shout and Greater Ki Shout, Shield Specialization and Shield Ward, and Goad.

Dang, wall of text. The short version: How would you build a samurai-type character with the limited sources listed above?

[Ardantis]

Building Paladin, take the feat Battle Blessing from Complete Champion. With only one level of Marshal, it will totally be worth it to cast Paladin buffs as swift actions- although your Wisdom is extremely low, now that I take a look at it.

Don't know much about Marshal, but I do know that all the best Pally abilities (especially charisma synergy) are done with by the first 6 levels. You'll need to prestige out to continue being effective.

ACTUALLY, I'd also recommend the Paladin feats which use Turn Undead uses as fuel- they're in Complete Warrior, and one gives Cha to damage for a turn, the other Cha to AC for several turns, each for the price of a Turn Undead use. Great Charisma synergy, especially considering your numbers. Pick a prestige class which advances turning or take extra turning to really take advantage of those boosts.

[Gwendol]

I'd look at the knight class. Paladin doesn't seem at all right for a samurai. Or Zhentarim fighter.

[Gwendol]

Human Fighter, level 8.

Human Bonus: Quick draw
1: Dreadful wrath (if you can swing it, PGtF is not on the approved list)
2: Power attack
3: Mounted combat, Zhent fighter sub bonus Skill Focus (intimidate)
4: Ride by attack
5: Zhent sub Extended Intimidation
6: Cleave, Spirited charge
8: Improved initiative

At nine the Zhent soldier gets swift demoralization, which is sweet.

A knight with your charisma will be quite radical

Human bonus: quick draw
1: Power attack
2: Mounted combat
3: Improved initiative
5: Ride by attack
6: Cleave

You get spirited charge as bonus feat at 10. However, to really make use of bulwark of defence you need reach, and combat reflexes, but at least you have reach while mounted (and wielding a lance).

[prufock]

Building Paladin, take the feat Battle Blessing from Complete Champion. With only one level of Marshal, it will totally be worth it to cast Paladin buffs as swift actions- although your Wisdom is extremely low, now that I take a look at it.

Don't know much about Marshal, but I do know that all the best Pally abilities (especially charisma synergy) are done with by the first 6 levels. You'll need to prestige out to continue being effective.

ACTUALLY, I'd also recommend the Paladin feats which use Turn Undead uses as fuel- they're in Complete Warrior, and one gives Cha to damage for a turn, the other Cha to AC for several turns, each for the price of a Turn Undead use. Great Charisma synergy, especially considering your numbers. Pick a prestige class which advances turning or take extra turning to really take advantage of those boosts.

Good points here. Battle Blessing is a great feat, however there aren't really any good options for prestige classes in the available sources, and as you mentioned, paladin is more or less done by level 5. I would probably only have 1 or 2 spells per day, so the feat doesn't seem worth it.

Divine Might and Divine Shield are decent feats, and give me something to do with my TU uses. I like this idea. The others (Divine Cleansing, Divine Resistance, Divine Vigor) are take-or-leave kind of options.


Human Fighter, level 8.

Human Bonus: Quick draw
1: Dreadful wrath (if you can swing it, PGtF is not on the approved list)
2: Power attack
3: Mounted combat, Zhent fighter sub bonus Skill Focus (intimidate)
4: Ride by attack
5: Zhent sub Extended Intimidation
6: Cleave, Spirited charge
8: Improved initiative

At nine the Zhent soldier gets swift demoralization, which is sweet.
My DM usually ixnays anything from the FR or Eberron books, and Zhentarim is not in the primary sources, so I don't think this is an option, good though it might be.


A knight with your charisma will be quite radical

Human bonus: quick draw
1: Power attack
2: Mounted combat
3: Improved initiative
5: Ride by attack
6: Cleave

You get spirited charge as bonus feat at 10. However, to really make use of bulwark of defence you need reach, and combat reflexes, but at least you have reach while mounted (and wielding a lance).

I actually did consider knight, and it still seems like a viable option, but there are some downsides. One is that if you're going knight, multiclassing is a bad idea, and I'm a guy who likes to multiclass. They're also a bit feat-starved, though the mounted combat line as bonus feats helps a lot for this particular build. Finally, in the game for which I'm the DM, one of the players is a knight; that player is the DM of the game for which I'm making this character. While that doesn't really matter, I'd like to try something different.

Thanks for the feedback, folks. Anyone else have ideas?

[DeltaEmil]

Obligatory "Try Warblade" post here.

It can be found on the official webpage for free. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060802a&page=2)

[prufock]

Obligatory "Try Warblade" post here.

It can be found on the official webpage for free. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060802a&page=2)

Counter-obligatory "you didn't read the OP" post here. :smalltongue:


Limited Source List: PHB, PHB2, DMG, MM, Miniatures Handbook, and the 3.0 books Masters of the Wild, Sword and Fist, and Song and Silence. Might be able to get a few feats/spells approved from other sources.

I'm going to try to get Oriental Adventures approved so I can take Iaijutsu Master, but this is not a guarantee.

[DeltaEmil]

Counter-obligatory "you didn't read the OP" post here. :smalltongue:Since you could possibly get spells and/or feats from other sourcebooks, and are trying to get approval for a specific rulebook, you can as well get the most fitting class to be a samurai from the most fitting sourcebook, and try to get approval for yonder sourcebook in the first place. The mentioning that it's free and on the official webpage of WotC is in case your gm unreasonably asks for some official stuff and not homebrew, or denies it because you or the gm wouldn't have access to the book.

[prufock]

Since you could possibly get spells and/or feats from other sourcebooks, and are trying to get approval for a specific rulebook, you can as well get the most fitting class to be a samurai from the most fitting sourcebook, and try to get approval for yonder sourcebook in the first place. The mentioning that it's free and on the official webpage of WotC is in case your gm unreasonably asks for some official stuff and not homebrew, or denies it because you or the gm wouldn't have access to the book.

Warblade is neither a feat nor a spell, and is not from OA or a primary source, so it doesn't meet the restrictions. Thanks anyway, I actually like warblades (or maybe even a crusader), but it's not going to fly.

[Gwendol]

Try having your DM accept the CL instead of knight levels wrt knight's challenges. And the concept of the knight fits well with the samurai unless OA comes into play (which would be nice).

[prufock]

Try having your DM accept the CL instead of knight levels wrt knight's challenges.

That would be glorious, but I doubt it's going to happen. Would be nice if there was a class-stacking feat like the scout/ranger, scout/rogue, rogue/swashbuckler, bard/paladin, etc, but homebrew is not permissible. I agree that the flavour is good, and the knight is a nice low-tier class. Kind of a one-trick pony, but a fun trick.

[Gwendol]

Not knowing what kind of campaign you run it's still worthwhile noting you get a DC of 19 on your test of mettle. That's quite good, all things considered.

[the_david]

You've got access to Sword and Fist and you're not gonna take the Master Samurai prestige class?

[TentacleSurpris]

Can you use Oriental adventures and the 3rd party Rokugan material? If so, Samurai become deadly and use xp instead of treasure to upgrade their swords. Take a look at the CRANE clan series of feats. Lion clan aren't bad either. This is all from the Rokugan campaign setting sourcebook. Crane can get extra attacks against foes who miss them or who have lower initiative. Lion can, when they hit, add half of the attack bonus that exceeded the Ac to their next attack in the same round, or rwhen they miss due to power attacking, they hit anyway with less damage. Crab clan can get some decent damage too, as well as DR and hp.

In the Secrets of the Crane book there is a PRC that can add your diplomacy check modifier total to an iaijutsu or attack roll a few times a day. Try power attacking with that and see if you like it.

[Togath]

Can you use Oriental adventures and the 3rd party Rokugan material? If so, Samurai become deadly and use xp instead of treasure to upgrade their swords. Take a look at the CRANE clan series of feats. Lion clan aren't bad either. This is all from the Rokugan campaign setting sourcebook. Crane can get extra attacks against foes who miss them or who have lower initiative. Lion can, when they hit, add half of the attack bonus that exceeded the Ac to their next attack in the same round, or rwhen they miss due to power attacking, they hit anyway with less damage. Crab clan can get some decent damage too, as well as DR and hp.

In the Secrets of the Crane book there is a PRC that can add your diplomacy check modifier total to an iaijutsu or attack roll a few times a day. Try power attacking with that and see if you like it.

I'll second Rokugan sourcebooks if your GM is willing to allow them(and if he doesn't allow ToB for some reason)