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Amaril
2013-04-04, 12:27 PM
I have an idea in mind for a superhero game, and one thing I'm thinking I'd like to do is work with the Playground to homebrew an original system for it. However, before I do that, I'd like to get some advice about existing superhero systems to see if there's already one that's completely perfect for my idea, and to see what's already been done so I'm not completely copying an established game.

So, what can you tell me about superhero systems? What are the best and worst ones, and what have they done right and wrong?

tensai_oni
2013-04-04, 12:34 PM
Obligatory answer you all saw coming:

Mutants and Masterminds. It's good for a lot of things, and I mean A LOT, but it was made with the intention of being a superhero system. Because of that, it has very cinematic gameplay that makes you feel like a hero, and there is a lot of customization options.

What it did good:
Very universal system, allows for broad customization. Mechanics that are easy to learn, especially by people already familiar with DnD. Hero Points are a great resource to ensure your actions won't fail when it really matters.

What it did poorly:
Very unbalanced and easy to break, requiring game master supervision to ensure characters do not drastically overshadow each other or the NPCs/antagonists. The d20-centric mechanics may feel boring if you're looking for something new.

Amaril
2013-04-04, 01:05 PM
Obligatory answer you all saw coming:

Mutants and Masterminds. It's good for a lot of things, and I mean A LOT, but it was made with the intention of being a superhero system. Because of that, it has very cinematic gameplay that makes you feel like a hero, and there is a lot of customization options.

What it did good:
Very universal system, allows for broad customization. Mechanics that are easy to learn, especially by people already familiar with DnD. Hero Points are a great resource to ensure your actions won't fail when it really matters.

What it did poorly:
Very unbalanced and easy to break, requiring game master supervision to ensure characters do not drastically overshadow each other or the NPCs/antagonists. The d20-centric mechanics may feel boring if you're looking for something new.

I don't know much about M&M, but every time someone mentions it, the first thing I think of is the hilarious story of Dr. Dinosaur (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=276496), which is one of the best things I've ever read on this site. Regardless, one of the things I want to go for with my game is a massive number of powers to choose from, so that sounds sort of appealing.

SimonMoon6
2013-04-04, 03:27 PM
My superhero game of choice is always Mayfair's DC Heroes RPG (which was more or less reprinted by another company as Blood of Heroes).

Strengths of the system include a logarithmic scale (base 2) so that it easily handles characters of every power level, from Jimmy Olsen to pre-Crisis Superman (capable of moving planets). Superman can attack without having to roll one million d6's as he might have to in other games. Basically, a character with a 3 strength can lift twice as much as a character with a 2 strength (which is average human), while a character with a 4 strength can lift twice as much as a character with a 3 strength. The Post-Crisis Superman has a 25 strength, while the pre-Crisis version had a 50 strength.

Plus, the powers that some games find difficult (shape-changing, power duplication/absorption, etc) are quickly and easily handled. There's no complicated arithmetic involved at all (heck, pretty much no arithmetic).

The weaknesses of the system: well, it does have a few quirks that need house-ruling, such as saying that a power uses the same score for hitting as it does for damaging. (Easy fix: use an ability score like DEX to hit instead.) And the character creation system is easily abused to make characters that are far too powerful.

But other than that, it does a good job of handling pretty much everything that a superhero could possibly encounter. And it has an active fan base with a mailing list and a website devoted to writing up stats for characters from all sorts of fiction: writeups.org

puctheplayfull
2013-04-04, 05:01 PM
Sadly, just about any superhero game you play that uses a point buy system for creating characters can be abused. Some systems are harder to abuse (GURPS, ICONS) while some are much easier (Muntants and Masterminds) but that is the nature of the beast when you use point buy for anything. For the most possible powers and power options, the Hero system is supposed to be really good, but very complicated math wise. M&M is the next best thing as far as I understand, but is still a little math heavy (especially when you get into more complicated powers).

I've never used the Hero system, but I've done all kinds of things in M&M 2nd ed, and could put together just about any power/character concept you could come up with. Some things require house ruling though because there is no simple and easily balanced way to handle some powers. For instance I made Rogue's power from the X-men, and it was a complicated affair. All told, it was about half a page and like 6-10 points per rank (if I'm remembering correctly, its been a while), but every bit as powerful, and included the possibility of permanently absorbing someones powers (along with parts of their mind) and the near insanity that comes with it. For the most part, the system is already designed to let you make nearly any concept.

Jay R
2013-04-04, 05:19 PM
If simple math is a barrier to you. or simply not fun, then Champions is the worst system.

But if it's not a barrier, and is fun for you, then Champions is the best system.

All the math happens away from the table, in character design, and it allows an incredible flexibility in character design.

I have a friend with no interest in the math. I build his character for him as well as my own, and he has no problems running it.

Plerumque
2013-04-04, 05:32 PM
I personally love the HERO sytem, but it's rather complex, to say the least. The options provide the rules for literally anything you can think of, but at the cost of being simple and easy to pick up and play.

Amaril
2013-04-04, 05:33 PM
Hmm, I was hoping to use some form of point-buy system for powers, so it looks like I'd have to be pretty careful about abuse potential. Champions sounds good from Jay R's description, since I think plenty of math away from the table is fine as long as actual gameplay is simple and fast-paced, so I'd probably want to emulate that if I go the route of an original system.

Amaril
2013-04-04, 06:10 PM
It occurs to me that it might help people make suggestions about what systems I might want to emulate if I offer a little information about what the backstory for the game would be like, to help understand how powers work.

I came up with this idea because I like superhero stories and superhero games, but what always bugs me about the superhero genre is the kitchen sink nature that seems to plague all the major superhero settings, where you have aliens using advanced technology fighting crime alongside magicians using sorcery to protect the world from demons. I wanted to narrow the focus of the setting and give it a clearer idea of where the superheroes came from. This idea takes a lot of inspiration from Bioshock, and a little from Infamous, but I think it's original enough to not cross any lines. It has a fair bit of implied setting, but I think it's generic enough to offer significant choice in terms of the game's actual location.

The idea is this:

In the near future, a pharmaceuticals company starts working on a particular drug (which I haven't been able to think of a good original name for) that can modify people's DNA and give them superpowers. Although they initially have some success, the products of their first efforts aren't really powerful enough to modify people's capabilities to any significant degree--far from allowing people to run faster than a speeding bullet or leap tall buildings in a single bound, the powers granted by the drug are good for little more than gimmicky party tricks, though it still gains massive popularity. So much so, in fact, that the creators attract the attention of the government, and are swiftly recruited to develop a more potent version of the drug that can impart more impressive powers. Aided by the increased funding and support, the company finally manages to do so--the first recipients of real, permanent superpowers are alternately recruited by the government themselves in various capacities, sent into hiding, or executed, depending on the circumstances. However, as such things inevitably must, everything goes horribly wrong when the plant where the drug was manufactured suffers a catastrophic failure, releasing large quantities of the drug that affect numerous nearby civilians, thus creating an entire population of superhumans outside the control or awareness of the government.

In the ensuing days and weeks, those who survive their exposure to the drug see their new powers begin to develop and start learning to control them. However, with so many now using these abilities, a previously unobserved effect of the drug becomes apparent. As their powers develop, most of the exposed people start to fall into two main groups, based on the individual effects the drug has on them: Alphas, whose mutations tend to be more subtle rather than visually distinct, and appear to have hardly any side effects beyond granting superpowers; and Omegas, who generally develop more drastic physical mutations, and who frequently suffer from severe side effects as a result of their exposure, among them aggression, violent tendencies, and psychosis. At the same time, conflicts quickly begin to erupt between the government that seeks to control and regulate the newly created superheroes, and those who advocate for greater freedom for those who have received superhuman capabilities in the wake of the disaster. In the midst of this unstable situation, the players take the roles of new superhumans trying to master their powers and make the best of the current circumstances, whether as heroes...or villains :smallamused:

Now, I don't know whether any of that would help determine good mechanics for the game, but if it does, then that'll make this easier. I guess this information might belong more in the world-building section, but oh well.

Also, if you have any comments on the idea itself, feel free. Thanks for all the help so far :smallsmile:

SimonMoon6
2013-04-05, 11:18 AM
Hmm, I was hoping to use some form of point-buy system for powers, so it looks like I'd have to be pretty careful about abuse potential. Champions sounds good from Jay R's description, since I think plenty of math away from the table is fine as long as actual gameplay is simple and fast-paced, .

Well, I could be wrong since I've only ever browsed through Champions once two decades ago but my impression is:

There's still lots of math if you want to do anything that's not generic shoot and punch. If you want to use power-copying powers, well, you have xx points to allot to what powers you get. You want to copy Superman's powers? Okay, well, you only get a mere fraction of what he has, so we'll sit here and wait for an hour or two while you do the math to figure out just how much of Superman's powers you can afford to copy.

Not that (as I recall) you can really have Superman in a Champions game without the numbers getting into super-absurd levels.

I could be wrong about all that though since I am no expert on Champions.

Jay R
2013-04-05, 03:31 PM
Well, I could be wrong since I've only ever browsed through Champions once two decades ago but my impression is:

There's still lots of math if you want to do anything that's not generic shoot and punch.

Not really. It's not needed for stretching, movement, shape-changing, mind control, illusions, etc. It's only needed for the few power-affecting powers.


If you want to use power-copying powers, well, you have xx points to allot to what powers you get. You want to copy Superman's powers? Okay, well, you only get a mere fraction of what he has, so we'll sit here and wait for an hour or two while you do the math to figure out just how much of Superman's powers you can afford to copy.

Not that (as I recall) you can really have Superman in a Champions game without the numbers getting into super-absurd levels.

I could be wrong about all that though since I am no expert on Champions.

You're not wrong, you're merely exaggerating.

I avoid Absorption, Drain, and Transfer powers for roughly that reason. It would take three minutes or so to calculate.

Player1: I try to transfer Superman's STR with 5d6 of Transfer.
DM: Roll to hit.
Player1: (rolls) I hit! Now, 5 dice. (rolls again) I got 19 points.
DM: OK, Superman, you lose Active Points of STR.
Player 2: How do I calculate that? I bought it with the +1/2 advantage 0 END.
DM: A +1/2 advantage? Then divide 19 by 3/2, which is multiplying by 2/3 = 12 2/3, rounded to 13. You lose 13 points of STR.
Player1: How do I handle gaining 19 points to a power with +3/4 advantages and -1 Limitations?
DM: The Limitations can be ignored. You divide 19 by 7/4, which is multiplying by 4/7. 19 x 4/7 = (19 x 4)/7 = 76 / 7 = 11 points. So add 11 to the base points. Who moves next?

laeZ1
2013-04-05, 03:34 PM
I have an idea in mind for a superhero game, and one thing I'm thinking I'd like to do is work with the Playground to homebrew an original system for it. However, before I do that, I'd like to get some advice about existing superhero systems to see if there's already one that's completely perfect for my idea, and to see what's already been done so I'm not completely copying an established game.

So, what can you tell me about superhero systems? What are the best and worst ones, and what have they done right and wrong?

I've played two superhuman systems. One made by whitewolf (the folks who made WoD), called Abberant. My friend runs an Abberant campaign that takes place in the setting of Old Logan, and we have a lot of fun with it. The trick is to enjoy the Whitewolf tabletop system (not one that everybody likes).

The other one I've played was Heroes Unlimited, by Palladium (same folks who made Rifts). I'm not a big fan of their tabletop system (in fact, it is, to date, my least favorite), but with the main book and couple side books, they list off a very generous number of powers. From the classics (flying, lasers, telepathy, super[attribute]) to ones I had never thought of before (toy control, spinning, I think there's a super fart ability in there somewhere).

In the Abberant system, you choose your powers and spend xp into them to get better at them (in whitewolf, you spend xp on stats instead of waiting for enough xp to accrue, then level up). For instance, I play a character that can turn into water. The more points I've spent into this ability, the smaller of cracks I can go through, the less bullets and normal weapons hurt me (in water form, at least), and the quicker I can move throughout pipes and the such.

In Heroes Unlimited, you get a set of powers, and they don't really get stronger as you level. Some of your abilities will recieve higher range, but from my experience with Palladium, leveling doesn't do much. Either way, it's worth checking out the Heroes Unlimited books, just to get ideas for powers. I'd be very surprised for a player to request a power that they don't list (at least without them trying VERY hard to troll you)

Mordar
2013-04-05, 04:04 PM
Has anyone played supers in Savage Worlds? That might be okay, particularly for street level heroes...

From my end, I've played Marvel Super Heroes, Superworld, Villains & Vigilantes, Mutants and Masterminds (d20 - is it always d20?), and Champions/Hero. Every one of them had their pros and cons for me.

I guess one of my main questions for the Op would be: Do you want/expect your characters to improve significantly over the course of the campaign?

I ask because this, to me, seems to be one of the key limitations with some of the Supers rulesets - well-experienced characters are only marginally better than their novice selves, and usually only in peripheral ways.

- M

Asmodai
2013-04-05, 06:17 PM
I'm a big fan of Aberrant. It's quite open ended and fuctions pretty well for constructing all sorts of archetypes. I've played Arabian Nights and Gods in the modern day (before there even was Scion). Also, as a whole it explores the concept of humanity versus absolute power and does a pretty good thing with that.

You do have to keep in mind that certain powers can be highly dangerous against characters with zero or low protective powers, but that's pretty normal.

Then again, Aberrant, as most White Wolf games is mostly about the story and the conflict between characters rather then making things balanced, so your mileage may vary.

Stubbazubba
2013-04-08, 12:37 AM
I'll talk about Marvel Heroic Roleplaying, though it doesn't sound like it's what the OP is looking for.

MHR is extremely different from most supers RPGs. Powers and other abilities are not rated in an objective, output-measured way, but rather they are rated by their plot significance. That comes in flavors from d4 (for things that are liabilities more than assets) to d12 (for things which are truly awesome to behold, i.e. Mjolnir, the hammer of Thor). Heroes put together a dice pool made of dice from their powers, distinctions (personality quirks or background details that are relevant), etc., etc., roll, take the highest rolling two dice for their Total and take the largest remaining die (in terms of size, not number rolled) for the Effect. The breadth of things that can be put into a dice pool is quite wide, including one's own Physical, Mental, or Emotional Stress (also from d4 to d12); the Stress of an enemy; an Asset created by an ally like Invisible Woman's forcefields d8; a Scene Distinction like Falling Boulders d10; an enemy's Complication like All Webbed Up d8, etc., etc.

The dicepool represents all the plot factors in play, including environment, the emotional state of the heroes, knowledge/expertise in a certain domain, the previous actions of others, and, of course, the powers. So when a hero succeeds or fails, it's an emotional result as much as it is a purely physical one. You know why they fight, in addition to just how. Part of your character's background and story is in every roll. That lends itself extremely well to emotive role-playing.

That being said, the lack of objectivity makes for some strange-ness. The difference between Spider-Man's Superhuman Strength d10 and Thor's God-like Strength d12 is much less than you might expect. The universality of the mechanics (every roll produces an Effect Die that becomes or increases an Asset/Complication or Physical/Mental/Emotional Stress, or decreases/removes one of the same) means that everything feels quite same-y (as in Teleport doesn't really have unique mechanics, and works exactly like Superhuman Speed or Acrobatics for most purposes).

The Powers aren't that differentiated in and of themselves, but what does help differentiate them is the Special Effects (SFX) you attach to them. These are discrete effects that exist outside of the above-mentioned universal rules, usually in the form of dice pool manipulation or result manipulation, and they usually cost a Plot Point to activate. Plot Points are given out by the DM constantly, or can be earned by players by using a Distinction against themselves (including it in their dice pool as a d4), similar to Aspects/Compels in FATE.

For that reason, if you are averse to "disassociated mechanics," then you may want to steer clear. One of the important ways a player can gain PP is by activating a Limit which shuts down their powers or SFX. So Captain America voluntarily loses his shield in order to get a PP, and must roll to attempt to recover it. The player is thus both actor and writer for their character.

The game is extremely effective at hitting that somewhat overblown, somewhat melodramatic comic book style just right. People tend to get into their characters as they pursue their Milestones, little events that fit into a larger character arc which each grants XP. The largest shortcoming is that there is no point-buy character generation mini-game. There is random chargen, but it suffers from the same issues as all random chargen schemes. The default method of building chars is just by eyeballing their abilities and proficiencies and assigning a reasonable die. This works for most groups, so long as the DM trims down on excesses so everyone feels like they're on a relatively even keel. However, even great power discrepancies are somewhat mitigated by the fact that those rolling lower dice are more likely to roll nat 1s, which are Opportunities, which bring additional PP. In practice, however, it's better to have bigger dice, since larger Effect Dice are typically the key to handling powerful opposition.

OK, that's about as detailed a review as I've ever made, and it covers the fundamentals pretty well. It's not for everyone, but it has a lot of nifty ideas and the sum of these parts is actually an impressively accurate-feeling comic book game.

A more dramatic, serious-feeling alternative might be the Smallville RPG, which uses a different iteration of the same system (called Cortex+). That emphasizes inter-party melodrama just as much, if not more than action set pieces, which are usually resolved pretty quickly. More of a super soap opera game than a super summer blockbuster action movie game. It's also OOP, so it might be out of consideration on that alone.

mjlush
2013-04-08, 02:26 AM
I have an idea in mind for a superhero game, and one thing I'm thinking I'd like to do is work with the Playground to homebrew an original system for it. However, before I do that, I'd like to get some advice about existing superhero systems to see if there's already one that's completely perfect for my idea, and to see what's already been done so I'm not completely copying an established game.

So, what can you tell me about superhero systems? What are the best and worst ones, and what have they done right and wrong?

A little more about the setting you have in mind may be useful and your preferred style of play ...

I would not use the old Marvel Superheros to run Batman (of any era even the Adam West version) OTOH Some systems break down if you go above a certain power level.

As to play style do you want to simulate every feint and parry or almost ad lib knocking a foe through an extra wall or two because the character rolled well.

WhatBigTeeth
2013-04-08, 01:49 PM
Has anyone played supers in Savage Worlds? That might be okay, particularly for street level heroes...
I've played a game in it. I'd recommend checking out Necessary Evil to flesh the genre out more. It was actually really well suited to pulpy combat-heavy twirled-mustachio villainy. I still prefer M&M, but SW definitely gave a lighter and easier approach.

One game that I've been curious to play for a long time is Truth & Justice (http://www.atomicsockmonkey.com/products/tj.asp). It's been buried in my to-play list for ages, but the superhero theme and the fluffy "narrative"/character-focused aspects make it a tough pitch for my group. Anyone have any experience?


Player1: I try to transfer Superman's STR with 5d6 of Transfer.
DM: Roll to hit.
Player1: (rolls) I hit! Now, 5 dice. (rolls again) I got 19 points.
DM: OK, Superman, you lose Active Points of STR.
Player 2: How do I calculate that? I bought it with the +1/2 advantage 0 END.
DM: A +1/2 advantage? Then divide 19 by 3/2, which is multiplying by 2/3 = 12 2/3, rounded to 13. You lose 13 points of STR.
Player1: How do I handle gaining 19 points to a power with +3/4 advantages and -1 Limitations?
DM: The Limitations can be ignored. You divide 19 by 7/4, which is multiplying by 4/7. 19 x 4/7 = (19 x 4)/7 = 76 / 7 = 11 points. So add 11 to the base points. Who moves next?
Gotta say, this thread had me thinking about revisiting Champions to see if I was unfair in writing it off as unnecessarily fiddly, but then I got to this post.

Grod_The_Giant
2013-04-08, 02:14 PM
Mutants and Masterminds 3e (http://www.d20herosrd.com/) is probably the best system I've played for anything. A friend of mine commented that "it's like HEROES or Champions (I don't remember which), but character creation doesn't take a week." It's phenomenally flexible when you get used to it, simple enough to pick up and go if you want a standard character, fast to play, and-- in my experience-- well-balanced.

To defend the last point there... yes, it requires GM approval of characters, but that's true of every system, especially a point-buy one. Apart from a handful of cheap things (attack dimension travel, say), characters really do balance against each other pretty well, in my experience. I ran a semester-long campaign with it, and it was probably the best game I've run or played in.

For your purposes, it should work just fine. The kitchen-sink nature is a setting issue, not a system one.

puctheplayfull
2013-04-08, 02:56 PM
To defend the last point there... yes, it requires GM approval of characters, but that's true of every system, especially a point-buy one. Apart from a handful of cheap things (attack dimension travel, say), characters really do balance against each other pretty well, in my experience. I ran a semester-long campaign with it, and it was probably the best game I've run or played in.

Hey Grod, I haven't tried 3rd ed yet and haven't really looked at it much but I am incredibly familiar with 2nd ed. Does 3rd ed still have the same options for power containers and arrays that you had in 2nd ed? I know if you use/abuse them along with extras/flaws in 2nd ed, you can come up with PL10 characters that far outreach the example archetypes they give you using the same # of points. While avoiding game breaking characters falls largely on the GM, rules as written in 2nd ed allowed some pretty crazy stuff at PL10, and I was wondering if 3rd ed allows for some of the same.

prufock
2013-04-08, 03:04 PM
Hmm, I was hoping to use some form of point-buy system for powers, so it looks like I'd have to be pretty careful about abuse potential.

I'll throw in some more support for M&M 3e. Honestly, unless you have players who are going to purposely try to break the system, it shouldn't be too much of a problem. If you have some powergamers in your group, there are a few things you need to ban (like standard action powers being reduced to free or reaction, especially the Variable power).

Grod_The_Giant
2013-04-08, 03:25 PM
Hey Grod, I haven't tried 3rd ed yet and haven't really looked at it much but I am incredibly familiar with 2nd ed. Does 3rd ed still have the same options for power containers and arrays that you had in 2nd ed? I know if you use/abuse them along with extras/flaws in 2nd ed, you can come up with PL10 characters that far outreach the example archetypes they give you using the same # of points. While avoiding game breaking characters falls largely on the GM, rules as written in 2nd ed allowed some pretty crazy stuff at PL10, and I was wondering if 3rd ed allows for some of the same.
You can still have arrays, yeah-- it's the only way to get a character with more than one or two schticks, especially if you want them to be relevant in combat. I don't know if they're different from 2e-- they're supposed to be thematically linked, and you can switch between the powers in the array 1/round as a free action. You can do crazy things, sure. But everyone can and does do crazy things, and so do the bad guys, so it all works out.

Jay R
2013-04-08, 09:27 PM
Gotta say, this thread had me thinking about revisiting Champions to see if I was unfair in writing it off as unnecessarily fiddly, but then I got to this post.

Bear in mind that it was deliberately chosen as an example of the most fiddly thing that could come up in play, and came with a recommendation to avoid these powers.

Having said that, and as a strong Champions fan, I have to say it's not for everyone. If simple math is a barrier to you. or simply not fun, then Champions is not the game you'll have the most fun with.

Vknight
2013-04-08, 10:04 PM
Superhero Game that is not well known on the forums. Took me forever to right this all up

Probably because its ORE(One Roll Engine), and that never seems to get love even though its awesome!! Also so is Monsters & Other Childish Things.

What It Does Right
-Several Sample Powers in the Book
-Tells you how to make your own
-Straight out tells you how to break the game to be fair
-Has a rating system for what type of sueprs game you want. Gold, Red, Blue, Black(Each representing a interesting part of super stuff)
-You build the source of your powers(From being a Alien which makes you have super-high physical abilities, to being a Mad Scientist made of goo)
-One Roll Engine, its simple once you understand it. Lowest Sense declares first, going up to highest sense. Then everyone rolls and the people with the best rolls go first.
-Unlike Mutants & Masterminds super strength means that guy you just punched can lose his head
-Batman and Superman can play on equal fields, because of the systems point buy
-Want to do SWAT with minor powers? 175point characters
-Marvel stuff around 250point characters
-More DC stuff depending on the character up to 500points
-Character growth is influenced by the plot meaning a Gm and a player talk about what powers the hero can upgrade and get through the game
-Guns actually have a chance to hurt heros so the Punisher can hurt Spiderman
-Willpower, and Base Will. If you run out of willpower your powers all become a lot less effective.
-Nullify powers only effective 1 source. So the aliens in the party may be effected by that Null Ray but it probably(costs a lot of points to make a Nullify power effect several sources) won't effect Cyborg Ninja
-You can make anime style powers after a look through of the system
-You can do a villains game. Or a game in lots of different time periods.
-The example setting had Mecha Stalin... and the example characters include the Roswall Alien, a Hippy War Bot, and The Silence(Power-wise[Doctor Who if you are not aware])
-Each body part has its own wound/hit boxes
-Each stat has actual benefits for increasing them. From Coordinaiton at high levels letting your movements be a blur. Sense letting you Daredevil. Command letting you shout at someone and they do whatever you told them to do for a few minutes before realizing what the heck? and so on.
-By doing cool things, fulfilling loyalties, beating up other hero's you gain willpower so spending it is not a risk, reward scenario
-Want to have a kid show up commanding Odin to fight the heros... You can do that(2+ ways)
-Make something like a werewolf weak to silver without it beings auto-win. Though you can do that if its your cup of tea


What it Has Problems With(And what people used to D20 may have troubles with)
-It can look really hard and you can make some mistakes
-Speedsters are not problematic but when you understand ORE, they can seem broken at first. Long story
-There are 6 stats. But they may be confusing for people transiting over from d20. They actually work
-Its a bit complex at first but asking at forums and taking a second look through will help
-Point buy can seem like a lot of math
-Hero systems all have a slow power growth. Though it does suggest major awards after a campaign arc
-Its not played enough and needs more love
-ORE seems complex at first but its not, just how it works differently is odd


Proof that Wild Talents is Awesome!
The Players in my current game of it include
-A girl bonded to a venom like creature that consumed its old planet and she remembers nothing of her life after turning 19(She's 27)
-A telekinetic girl who has no clue how her powers work or where they come from, she's also smarter then Hawking
-A former steel worker who got hit by a alien metal which made his skin metal and also made him super strong
-A man who can summon up to 32tons of swords, for combat, he can also stare down normal people with ease
-A man who used experimental evolution technology and is now ooze that can regenerate at super fast levels along with producing weapons
-A 13 year old girl that fights crime
-A stage magician who got his fathers grimoire which grants him magical powers
-A man who can alter space, when killed throw his soul and take over another person, and see the souls of others

They have currently in 2 sessions done the following
-Got the opening stuff done about how the Justice League style group(There name is Watchtower if you care to know), and near all the villains were gone just one day 10months ago and they got there stuff within that time period.
-Foiled a bank heist by a guy using super soldier serum and a Gatling gun along with his thugs
-Fought a Demon Lord possessing a War hero. Who made the deal to save his unit.
-Made a deal with a organization dedicated to keeping a eye on hero's(Over-watch), and only one of them got shot(with a tranq dart)!!
-Got the girl with only her memories up to the age of 19 back said memories
-Fought a T-Rex in the sewers
-Found the homeless people have built a hidden shanty town under the city
-Made the public for the most part aware of there base of operations and superpowers/self augmentation is not nessecairly legal
-Delat with 1 plot point I have given them. And I don't care cause its been awesome

Ninjadeadbeard
2013-04-08, 11:37 PM
I don't know much about M&M, but every time someone mentions it, the first thing I think of is the hilarious story of Dr. Dinosaur (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=276496), which is one of the best things I've ever read on this site. Regardless, one of the things I want to go for with my game is a massive number of powers to choose from, so that sounds sort of appealing.

Ah Dr D. I miss you ole buddy. :smallsigh:

Go M&M. My players (sans one) are pretty much baffled as to why we even use D&D for anything anymore. We run 2E, so I'm not up on what's different with the newer edition, but it is an amazing system to play, no question.

Seriously. You can run anything with M&M. I'm planning a Star Wars campaign with M&M, and it works better than any SW system I've ever seen.

Vknight
2013-04-09, 12:18 AM
Ah Dr D. I miss you ole buddy. :smallsigh:

Go M&M. My players (sans one) are pretty much baffled as to why we even use D&D for anything anymore. We run 2E, so I'm not up on what's different with the newer edition, but it is an amazing system to play, no question.

Seriously. You can run anything with M&M. I'm planning a Star Wars campaign with M&M, and it works better than any SW system I've ever seen.

But are its sample characters including a Man who turns into a T-Rex?
Though in all honesty I love M&M. But everything it does Wild Talents does better

Ninjadeadbeard
2013-04-09, 02:21 AM
But are its sample characters including a Man who turns into a T-Rex?
Though in all honesty I love M&M. But everything it does Wild Talents does better

Sample characters? No.

My Players' characters? @#$% yes. Yes with a dash of superspy and cyborg space wizard.

Kaerou
2013-04-09, 04:13 AM
My superhero game of choice is always Mayfair's DC Heroes RPG (which was more or less reprinted by another company as Blood of Heroes).

Strengths of the system include a logarithmic scale (base 2) so that it easily handles characters of every power level, from Jimmy Olsen to pre-Crisis Superman (capable of moving planets). Superman can attack without having to roll one million d6's as he might have to in other games. Basically, a character with a 3 strength can lift twice as much as a character with a 2 strength (which is average human), while a character with a 4 strength can lift twice as much as a character with a 3 strength. The Post-Crisis Superman has a 25 strength, while the pre-Crisis version had a 50 strength.

Plus, the powers that some games find difficult (shape-changing, power duplication/absorption, etc) are quickly and easily handled. There's no complicated arithmetic involved at all (heck, pretty much no arithmetic).

The weaknesses of the system: well, it does have a few quirks that need house-ruling, such as saying that a power uses the same score for hitting as it does for damaging. (Easy fix: use an ability score like DEX to hit instead.) And the character creation system is easily abused to make characters that are far too powerful.

But other than that, it does a good job of handling pretty much everything that a superhero could possibly encounter. And it has an active fan base with a mailing list and a website devoted to writing up stats for characters from all sorts of fiction: writeups.org

This a favourite of mine also, great system but has little depth and the power costs are absurd.. some game breakers are very cheap while some highly limited or even pointless powers have absurdly high costs. It also has problems if you use the hero points to affect combat, and if you use it a highly suggest you skip this rule and add in a toughness power for extra HP's and cap damage output to 3-5 to avoid headaches (the default game essentially relies on hero points to have combats last more than a couple rounds yet they are highly abusable)

For all these problems its a great game, very simple once you know what you're doing.. the flaws, other than those I have already mentioned is its got very little non-combat type stuff. With some houserule extra skills added it might be decent for your purposes. Just keep in mind the default points for new characters (450) is absurdly low and you'll be lucky to make a street level character with any powers with it. 1000-1500 points makes an average teen titan. A superman type character is roughly 5000 points.

Beleriphon
2013-04-09, 08:13 AM
Ah Dr D. I miss you ole buddy. :smallsigh:

Go M&M. My players (sans one) are pretty much baffled as to why we even use D&D for anything anymore. We run 2E, so I'm not up on what's different with the newer edition, but it is an amazing system to play, no question.

Seriously. You can run anything with M&M. I'm planning a Star Wars campaign with M&M, and it works better than any SW system I've ever seen.

M&M 3E differences, they renamed the stats to move away from the D&D base that it came from, rejiggered the way the defences work a bit, added some things to allow anybody to use a low end version of stuff like Power Attack (anybody can do it for a +2/-2, the Advantage can provide up to +5/-5), Feats are now Advantages, skills are more expensive but there are less of them. The Powers now work like the 2E supplement Ultimate Power which a great since there are only a few suggested powers the rest of that chapter describes how effects work and how to combine them. The single best effect in the game is Afflication, it applies three levels of status effects depending on how bad the target fails the save in addition to the usual assortment of extras and flaws to change the way it works.

I think its a better system overall, and it fixed several of the major 2E issues. Grappling is one, regeneration being overly complicated is another (now its super easy to figure out how much you heal and when). Characters cannot have flaws on themselves now, example you can't have a 5 point flaw for being allergic to purple anymore it is now a complication. It has its own new quirks but overall an improvement.

Draz74
2013-04-09, 02:05 PM
I'm a little late to the party, but ... Legend (http://www.ruleofcool.com/) is very well-suited to superhero genre games.

The 1.0 edition should be out ... any ... day ... now ...

neonchameleon
2013-04-10, 08:16 AM
I have an idea in mind for a superhero game, and one thing I'm thinking I'd like to do is work with the Playground to homebrew an original system for it. However, before I do that, I'd like to get some advice about existing superhero systems to see if there's already one that's completely perfect for my idea, and to see what's already been done so I'm not completely copying an established game.

So, what can you tell me about superhero systems? What are the best and worst ones, and what have they done right and wrong?

There are in my experience two basic approaches to supers systems.

1: The character has every ability they have written and nailed down because they are a preexisting person.
2: Supers writers make up consequences all the time so the game is relatively rules light and the character is only outlined in broad terms.

Examples of approach 1 include M&M, and Champions as well as GURPS Supers (GURPS books are always worth reading).

Examples of approach 2 include Marvel Heroic Roleplaying, anything involving the One Role Engine (Wild Talents, Better Angels), Marvel FASERIP

For Superheroes I much prefer approach 2 - it means you end up with character sheets you can readily fit on an index card and that IMO play much more smoothly. Have a look at examples of both.

Vknight
2013-04-10, 09:20 AM
There are in my experience two basic approaches to supers systems.

1: The character has every ability they have written and nailed down because they are a preexisting person.
2: Supers writers make up consequences all the time so the game is relatively rules light and the character is only outlined in broad terms.

Examples of approach 1 include M&M, and Champions as well as GURPS Supers (GURPS books are always worth reading).

Examples of approach 2 include Marvel Heroic Roleplaying, anything involving the One Role Engine (Wild Talents, Better Angels), Marvel FASERIP

For Superheroes I much prefer approach 2 - it means you end up with character sheets you can readily fit on an index card and that IMO play much more smoothly. Have a look at examples of both.

Heck yeah NeoChameleon and finally some one else pointing out the awesome of Wild Talents!

Its really comes down to that

Rule Light or Rule Heavy
and Rules influence game
or games influences rules

Oracle_Hunter
2013-04-10, 04:36 PM
Interestingly, I am playtesting a Superhero System of my own design ("Four Color Heroes"). It'll be debuting in the Game Room of C2E2 (http://www.c2e2.com/) from noon to 4pm on Saturday and Sunday if you happen to be attending.

It's a rules-light game, but that does not mean a game of Magical Tea Party. My approach to superpowers is to define the borders of a character's power and permit the Player to improvise with it. After all, isn't it more important for Superheroes to undertake plots that test their Beliefs than to know exactly how much more Superman can lift than Spiderman?

I can say more if anyone is interested, and I hope to see some GitPers at my playtest!

Stubbazubba
2013-04-11, 09:23 PM
I'm interested!