Prestidigitation

[questionmark693]

Why does everybody love it?ive never seen it used in game, but everybody here loves it...I even saw it put on par with wish one time. Can somebody explain why to me? Was it sarcasm that I just missed?

[Keneth]

Because it's basically minor wish, limited only by your imagination.

[Kornaki]

It's the only spell where people can reply "It does all sorts of great things, just use your imagination" without ever giving a concrete example

[Deox]

Head over to the d20srd and read the spell.

I'll wait.

Did you read it? Cool. Read it again, and again, and again.

The spell is amazingly resourceful; I believe there is even a WotC web article detailing additional uses.

[NeoPhoenix0]

it has a hundred plus infinity uses.

you can find a few extra uses on pg 80 of tome and blood a guide to wizards and sorcerers

i once used it to dig a hole, make an umbrella out of the rain, and make a small area a crappy imitation of hell with ghost sounds and dancing lights used appropriately to add creepiness. the guy i was scaring didn't know anything about the planes.

[Krobar]

It's the only spell where people can reply "It does all sorts of great things, just use your imagination" without ever giving a concrete example

I've used it to annoy other characters by making them spill their drinks on themselves. I've used it to escape city guards by changing the color of my clothes. I've used it dry off before I go into a tavern out of the rain. I've used it to clean my clothes without taking them off first, before I go into a tavern off a long dusty ride. I've used it to make food taste better so everyone loved my cooking and paid more for the privilege of eating what I prepare (think nobility), or make someone else's food taste like orc turds. I've used it to turn another character's skin green and his hair pink. I made it look like a character wet his pants while he was talking to a king. Theme music (every good hero should have some). A trumpet fanfare when you walk into a place. Use it to create a diversion by dropping a small object somewhere else in the room. Imagine changing a general's standard on the field of battle to look like the enemy's - easy to do, and creates mass confusion. Shave the dwarf's beard off from a distance. Make your sword scream like a tortured woman every time you swing it. Cheat at cards or dice.

This barely even touches the surface. You can do ALL KINDS of things with it. Truly, the uses are only limited by your imagination.

[Deophaun]

Want to make that fetid, disease filled swamp muck taste like the finest broth ever created? Prestidigitation.

Want to make your robes look like the exotically colored robes of the evil cult you're trying to infiltrate? Prestidigitation.

Being tracked by dogs that have locked onto your scent? Prestidigitation.

The dwarf won't stop drinking? Prestidigitation.

Did you just crawl out of a sewer? Prestidigitation.

This is for starters.

[Agincourt]

Some people have permissive DMs. For example, the line in the spell, "It can chill, warm, or flavor 1 pound of non-living material," seems to be commonly interpreted as, "make any food, regardless of the weight restriction, taste exactly how the caster wants." I am not that permissive in my ruling. Have you ever had a "flavored" rice cake? It tastes marginally better than a regular rice cake, but it still tastes like a rice cake.

[Deophaun]

For example, the line in the spell, "It can chill, warm, or flavor 1 pound of non-living material," seems to be commonly interpreted as, "make any food, regardless of the weight restriction, taste exactly how the caster wants."
If by "interpret" you mean "faithfully uphold RAW, (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20010707)" you're right...

Flavor: You give a substance a better, worse, or different flavor. You could, for example, make porridge taste like lobster bisque. You do not change the substance's quality or wholesomeness. Spoiled food remains spoiled, a poisoned drink is still deadly, and inedible material provides no nourishment -- you can make a twig taste like steak, but it remains a twig.

[Deox]

The text in the spell clearly states that you can make it taste like whatever you want, I believe one of the examples is making a twig taste like steak, except it's still a twig.

Edit: Swordsaged.

[Krobar]

Some people have permissive DMs. For example, the line in the spell, "It can chill, warm, or flavor 1 pound of non-living material," seems to be commonly interpreted as, "make any food, regardless of the weight restriction, taste exactly how the caster wants." I am not that permissive in my ruling. Have you ever had a "flavored" rice cake? It tastes marginally better than a regular rice cake, but it still tastes like a rice cake.

Well, yeah, because that's exactly what it says. You can DM fiat that away if you want, but the rules as written say exactly that.

[Gerrtt]

I argue that while it is plenty useful that it is, infact, limited by more than your imagination.

It can lift 1 pound "slowly." What "slowly" means is not clearly defined, but I would argue that if someone tried to spill my drink "slowly" with 1 pound of force that I would just stop my drink from being spilled; I can exert far more than one pound of force with my hand, more than enough to stop the drink from tipping over.

It also "lacks the power to duplicate any other spell effects," which basically means that even if it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's not really a duck. More like a hampster. OK, you manage to in one round color 1 cubic foot of my skin green. It has no effect on me mechanically, people don't think I'm an orc and it doesn't really disguise me (because there are spells for both of those, illusions and disguise spells).

I still think it's a great, flavorful spell that kindof points at mages/sages being able to do little magical tricks without expending a lot of effort. It's just not the answer to everything that everyone makes it out to be unless you have a very permissive DM that rewards creativity. They are out there, but there are plenty more who aren't so permissive.

[Hendel]

Theme music (every good hero should have some). A trumpet fanfare when you walk into a place...Shave the dwarf's beard off from a distance. Make your sword scream like a tortured woman every time you swing it. Cheat at cards or dice.
I am sorry, but where in the spell does it talk about sound, shaving or cheating?

I could be wrong but the way I read it, I see it like this.

The caster can create "simple magical effects" that are "minor and have severe limitations." Then it goes on to list those effects.

1. Lift 1 pound of material
2. Color, clean, soil items in a 1 foot cube
3. Chill, warm, flavor 1 pound of nonliving material
4. Create small objects

So, yes, it is very handy and, yes, all of my wizards and sorcerers have it, but can it make sound or shave a dwarf? I don't see that in the list of effects.

Now, if you or your DM takes the phrase "enables you to perform simple magical effects for 1 hour" to mean that you can do virtually anything, then why list the specific effects that follow. It seems like it is saying that you can do certain effects and then it lists the effects.

You may read it differently but that is how I see the wording of the spell.

[Keneth]

It can't make sounds (that what ghost sound is for), and it can't cut a beard any more than it can cut into skin (it can't, since it doesn't do any damage). You can freeze a dwarf's beard with ray of frost if you want (assuming called shots are allowed).

[Deophaun]

Going with Hendel's critique, you also can't change a battle standard to like like the enemy's standard, unless the enemy's standard has the exact same pattern and is distinguished only by colors.

Color: You bring color to an object. You can restore faded hues or give it a new color. If you add color, it must be from the visible spectrum (red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo, or violet). You cannot change an object's pattern, such as adding or removing stripes or polka dots, but you can change the color in a pattern so that, for example, a blue garment with white stripes becomes green with yellow stripes.
And it's interesting that they felt coloring things magenta was OP.

[Krobar]

I am sorry, but where in the spell does it talk about sound, shaving or cheating?

I could be wrong but the way I read it, I see it like this.

The caster can create "simple magical effects" that are "minor and have severe limitations." Then it goes on to list those effects.

1. Lift 1 pound of material
2. Color, clean, soil items in a 1 foot cube
3. Chill, warm, flavor 1 pound of nonliving material
4. Create small objects

So, yes, it is very handy and, yes, all of my wizards and sorcerers have it, but can it make sound or shave a dwarf? I don't see that in the list of effects.

Now, if you or your DM takes the phrase "enables you to perform simple magical effects for 1 hour" to mean that you can do virtually anything, then why list the specific effects that follow. It seems like it is saying that you can do certain effects and then it lists the effects.

You may read it differently but that is how I see the wording of the spell.

That's not a comprehensive list of everything it can do. If it was, there would be no need to say that that it can't cause damage, or affect concentration. They wouldn't need to say "Any actual change to an object (beyond just moving, cleaning, or soiling it) persists only 1 hour." They wouldn't need to list any other limitations beyond those specific four things. But the rest of the text means that, simply put, it can do all kinds of things subject to those other limitations (like not causing damage, and only lasting an hour, etc.).

In some ways, sure ... we're using the old "cantrip" from second edition, with their "tinklings of ethereal music", etc. As far as cheating at cards? Change the spots on the cards or the dice. That's just a simple color adjustment.

[Deophaun]

That's not a comprehensive list of everything it can do.
You are replicating ghost sound, and prestidigitation specifically says it cannot replicate a spell effect.

As far as cheating? Change the spots on the cards or the dice. Simple adjustment of color.
Again, prestidigitation is specifically barred from changing patterns.

[Krobar]

You are replicating ghost sound, and prestidigitation specifically says it cannot replicate a spell effect.

Again, prestidigitation is specifically barred from changing patterns.


To be fair, my casters usually have both. They divided up "cantrip" into multiple 0 level spells in 3.0/3.5, etc. and sometimes I forget that, and Ghost Sound is also 0 level.

And where is it specifically barred from changing patterns?


http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/prestidigitation.htm

Prestidigitations are minor tricks that novice spellcasters use for practice. Once cast, a prestidigitation spell enables you to perform simple magical effects for 1 hour. The effects are minor and have severe limitations. A prestidigitation can slowly lift 1 pound of material. It can color, clean, or soil items in a 1-foot cube each round. It can chill, warm, or flavor 1 pound of nonliving material. It cannot deal damage or affect the concentration of spellcasters. Prestidigitation can create small objects, but they look crude and artificial. The materials created by a prestidigitation spell are extremely fragile, and they cannot be used as tools, weapons, or spell components. Finally, a prestidigitation lacks the power to duplicate any other spell effects. Any actual change to an object (beyond just moving, cleaning, or soiling it) persists only 1 hour.

[Jeraa]

You are replicating ghost sound, and prestidigitation specifically says it cannot replicate a spell effect.

Again, prestidigitation is specifically barred from changing patterns.

If that is true, then the "lift slowly" part is duplicating Mage Hand, and you can't use it. Creating an object duplicates Minor Creation, and changing somethings color could be an effect of Silent Image. While you can't duplicate the effects of another spell, you can produce lesser effects.

Ghost Sound says it can "produce as much noise as four normal humans per caster level (maximum twenty humans)". So, as long as whatever effect you create stays below that limit (Say, a maximum of what 1 human could make), Prestidigitation can create sounds.


And where is it specifically barred from changing patterns?

It is not in the spell itself, but i nan article on the WotC site that was linked above.

[Karnith]

And where is it specifically barred from changing patterns?
In a section of Tome and Blood that is freely-available (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20010707).
Color: You bring color to an object. You can restore faded hues or give it a new color. If you add color, it must be from the visible spectrum (red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo, or violet). You cannot change an object's pattern, such as adding or removing stripes or polka dots, but you can change the color in a pattern so that, for example, a blue garment with white stripes becomes green with yellow stripes.
(Emphasis mine)

[Gerrtt]

If that is true, then the "lift slowly" part is duplicating Mage Hand, and you can't use it. Creating an object duplicates Minor Creation, and changing somethings color could be an effect of Silent Image. While you can't duplicate the effects of another spell, you can produce lesser effects.

Ghost Sound says it can "produce as much noise as four normal humans per caster level (maximum twenty humans)". So, as long as whatever effect you create stays below that limit (Say, a maximum of what 1 human could make), Prestidigitation can create sounds.

I'd rule that if did create sounds that they would be clearly fake. Just like the cheap knockoffs that have no use when they are created with prestidigitation. As a result, the sounds produce no mechanical benefit in the game IE compared to ghost sound which allows a save and may actually confuse someone for a little while the sounds made with prestidigitation sound so obviously fake that nobody has any difficulty disbelieving them.

[NeoPhoenix0]

Going with Hendel's critique, you also can't change a battle standard to like like the enemy's standard, unless the enemy's standard has the exact same pattern and is distinguished only by colors.

get a blank sheet and use the tome and blood rules to create an image on the sheet. it's a figment and lasts no more than one hour and you have to take multiple rounds if the image is bigger than one foot square.

[Deophaun]

If that is true, then the "lift slowly" part is duplicating Mage Hand, and you can't use it. Creating an object duplicates Minor Creation, and changing somethings color could be an effect of Silent Image.
All exceptions to the general rule. Specific trumps general, not the other way around.

get a blank sheet and use the tome and blood rules to create an image on the sheet. it's a figment and lasts no more than one hour and you have to take multiple rounds if the image is bigger than one foot square.
Who has a blank sheet as a battle standard?

[Krobar]

In a section of Tome and Blood that is freely-available (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20010707).
(Emphasis mine)

Tome and Blood is 3.0. SRD is 3.5.

[galan]

Again, prestidigitation is specifically barred from changing patterns.
so, i can change the card to a rose, but not another card? seems legit

"Change: You transform one object of Fine size or smaller into another object of roughly the same size. The object can weigh no more than 8 ounces.

you could change a piece of paper into scrap of linen, and then change that into a rose"

[Deophaun]

so, i can change the card to a rose, but not another card?
I never said you couldn't. But if you were doing it that way, it wouldn't be "just a simple color adjustment," would it?

[Krobar]

I'd rule that if did create sounds that they would be clearly fake. Just like the cheap knockoffs that have no use when they are created with prestidigitation. As a result, the sounds produce no mechanical benefit in the game IE compared to ghost sound which allows a save and may actually confuse someone for a little while the sounds made with prestidigitation sound so obviously fake that nobody has any difficulty disbelieving them.

That's the point. It's not meant to actually DO anything OTHER than be simple theme music for you to listen to. Maybe the guy next to you can hear it too. But it doesn't have any real effect on anything. And the PHB specifically includes "tinklings of ethereal music."


I never said you couldn't. But if you were doing it that way, it wouldn't be "just a simple color adjustment," would it?

Well, I guess you could always make it more complex than it needs to be, and instead of changing that Ace of Spades to a 7 of Hearts (or vice versa) with a color and pattern change, you could transform the whole card to another card. But that seems more difficult than necessary.

[Deophaun]

Well, I guess you could always make it more complex than it needs to be, and instead of changing that Ace of Spades to a 7 of Hearts with a color and pattern change, you could transform the whole card to another card. But that seems more difficult than necessary.
Because we like getting whole armies to turn on one another just to make cheating at cards easier.

[Krobar]

Because we like getting whole armies to turn on one another just to make cheating at cards easier.

Well, Prestidigitation was updated in 3.5 from the entry in Tome and Blood (3.0), and the verbiage about not being able to change patterns was removed.

[NeoPhoenix0]

Who has a blank sheet as a battle standard?

you put a figment of the battle standard on the blank sheet then cut to size and put it on a stick


Tome and Blood is 3.0. SRD is 3.5.

i know its 3.0 but the section was originally an expansion on prestidigitation so it is still valid. get dm approval before using it though.

[Krobar]

you put a figment of the battle standard on the blank sheet the cut to size and put it on a stick



i know its 3.0 but the section was originally an expansion on prestidigitation so it is still valid. get dm approval before using it though.

I'm the current DM. And my ruling is that the language was removed with the update.

LOL.

[Deophaun]

you put a figment of the battle standard on the blank sheet then cut to size and put it on a stick
So now you're identified as the enemy... Not seeing how you're changing another person's battle standard here. Are you just going to wade up to him in the middle of the battle and ask him nicely to use your standard instead?

I'm the current DM. And my ruling is that the language was removed with the update.
That's nice. You can have it replicate a ninth level wish in your games for all I care. Doesn't change what it is. And no, there is no "entry" in Tome and Blood for prestidigitation, so there was nothing to remove/update.

[Hendel]

That's not a comprehensive list of everything it can do. If it was, there would be no need to say that that it can't cause damage, or affect concentration. They wouldn't need to say "Any actual change to an object (beyond just moving, cleaning, or soiling it) persists only 1 hour." They wouldn't need to list any other limitations beyond those specific four things. But the rest of the text means that, simply put, it can do all kinds of things subject to those other limitations (like not causing damage, and only lasting an hour, etc.).

In some ways, sure ... we're using the old "cantrip" from second edition, with their "tinklings of ethereal music", etc. As far as cheating at cards? Change the spots on the cards or the dice. That's just a simple color adjustment.
Again, without getting into the tired arguments of RAW versus RAI, I see it being a pretty comprehensive list (it can be expanded if you accept the Tome of Blood entry as well).

You say that they wouldn't need to say "it can't cause damage, or affect concentration" if the list was comprehensive, but I disagree. Some caster may try and use "warm" to break concentration like a Heat Metal spell might. Someone may cause a small object to appear over a foe's head to fall and hurt him. So there are plenty of reasons to include that phrase if the effects of the spell are limited to that list.

You say that they wouldn't need to say "any actual change to an object (beyond just moving, cleaning, or soiling it) persists only 1 hour" if the list was comprehensive. That would keep a caster from chilling the ale and expecting it to stay that way so he could ship it cold to the next village. It would keep a caster from making wonderfully tasty treats out of bland food and keeping it in a shop window all day for sale, etc.

Again, these are just silly little uses and do not have any real game effect so I would not mind if a player wanted to stretch the wording a bit. I would probably keep it from having a substantial game effect as it is a cantrip and needs to be kept on par with other like spells.

Yes, I recall when Unearthed Arcana came out for AD&D 1st edition and we liked to use all the cantrips like belch, soil, yawn, hairy, etc. Some see Prestidigitation as an extention of that but it is not laid out like that in the rules. Again, as a DM I would probably allow many of the old Unearthed Arcana cantrips as possible effects for Prestidigitation, but that would be more of a DM exception than a reading of the spell.

[Baroncognito]

Originally Posted by Fun With Prestidigitation
Color: You bring color to an object. You can restore faded hues or give it a new color. If you add color, it must be from the visible spectrum (red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo, or violet). You cannot change an object's pattern, such as adding or removing stripes or polka dots, but you can change the color in a pattern so that, for example, a blue garment with white stripes becomes green with yellow stripes.

Okay, so I have a garment that's blue with white stripes. I change the blue to white. It is now a white garment with white stripes?

[Baroncognito]

For all that magic does, I can't support prestidigitation being able to make a porridge taste like lobster bisque because then you've got a cantrip negating an entire profession.

What's the point in having "Create food and water" be a gruel if a cantrip can make it taste awesome?

[Karnith]

For all that magic does, I can't support prestidigitation being able to make a porridge taste like lobster bisque because then you've got a cantrip negating an entire profession.

What's the point in having "Create food and water" be a gruel if a cantrip can make it taste awesome?
Because Prestidigitation can only affect a small amount of food per use, and has fairly limited uses per day?

[Scow2]

For all that magic does, I can't support prestidigitation being able to make a porridge taste like lobster bisque because then you've got a cantrip negating an entire profession.

What's the point in having "Create food and water" be a gruel if a cantrip can make it taste awesome?Bah. Cantrips are always negating entire professions.

Besides, "taste" is only one of three senses used in determining how something actually tastes (The other two being scent and sight.)

[Krobar]

...

That's nice. You can have it replicate a ninth level wish in your games for all I care. Doesn't change what it is. And no, there is no "entry" in Tome and Blood for prestidigitation, so there was nothing to remove/update.

There is 3.0 information in Tome and Blood regarding Prestidigitation. 3.5 didn't include that material, so we didn't include it either. But if you want to include that limitation be my guest. I'm not going to do what others have done, and tell you you're playing the game wrong. We are pretty loose with prestidigitation, because it's a fun spell and great for roleplaying purposes.


Nothing is ever unbalanced or unfair as long as you remember ... whatever the players do, the DM can do too. And vice versa.

[Preaplanes]

Want to make that fetid, disease filled swamp muck taste like the finest broth ever created? Prestidigitation.

Want to make your robes look like the exotically colored robes of the evil cult you're trying to infiltrate? Prestidigitation.

Being tracked by dogs that have locked onto your scent? Prestidigitation.

The dwarf won't stop drinking? Prestidigitation.

Did you just crawl out of a sewer? Prestidigitation.

This is for starters.

Actually, since it can't replicate any spells with more specific effects, the core spell "Pass Without Trace" invalidates your third example.

[Krobar]

Actually, since it can't replicate any spells with more specific effects, the core spell "Pass Without Trace" invalidates your third example.

You're not "passing without trace" if all you've done is alter your own smell to something different, that the dogs aren't tracking.

[CoffeeIncluded]

For all that magic does, I can't support prestidigitation being able to make a porridge taste like lobster bisque because then you've got a cantrip negating an entire profession.

What's the point in having "Create food and water" be a gruel if a cantrip can make it taste awesome?

It replaces fast food. It makes bitter medicine taste better. It wouldn't put restaurants out of business because people will always pay more for the real thing. If you had the money, would you rather have cardboard cheap steak held together with glue that tastes like a prime porterhouse, or the real deal, swimming in its own fat and juices, bright red and glistening, melting like butter in your mouth?

[Baroncognito]

Because Prestidigitation can only affect a small amount of food per use, and has fairly limited uses per day?

Sorry, I'm a pathfinder player. It doesn't have limited uses per day.

[NeoPhoenix0]

So now you're identified as the enemy... Not seeing how you're changing another person's battle standard here. Are you just going to wade up to him in the middle of the battle and ask him nicely to use your standard instead?

hey i''m just telling you what the spell is capable of. whoever is trying to change someone's battle standard can figure that one out.

and the information on prestidigitation is on pg 80 of tome and blood i have the book right here.

[LTwerewolf]

hey i''m just telling you what the spell is capable of. whoever is trying to change someone's battle standard can figure that one out.

and the information on prestidigitation is on pg 80 of tome and blood i have the book right here.

Yes, tome and blood. 3.0. In the update to 3.5, that language wasn't included. Even if it wasn't, instead of changing the pattern, they can change it into something exactly the same, but with a different pattern, because they can change the shape. Having to jump through that pointless hoop shows you're more interested than arguing the semantic of a rule than in helping with the conversation.

[TuggyNE]

make an umbrella out of the rain

This is so much appropriate. +1.


OK, you manage to in one round color 1 cubic foot of my skin green. It has no effect on me mechanically, people don't think I'm an orc and it doesn't really disguise me (because there are spells for both of those, illusions and disguise spells).

Technically, it doesn't work on living things at all. So it's no good for changing your personal appearance, though it does work on clothes (probably giving a small bonus to Disguise, rather than the substantial bonus of disguise self).

[Gerrtt]

I was mostly countering a few of the more absurd (to me) things I saw earlier, but I agree; it should have no impact on creatures. I just go as far as to say it should have no mechanical benefit either.

If you really want to turn your skin green there are illusions for that.
If you really want to make it sound like there's a group of people in the room, there's ghost sound.
If you really want to disguise yourself, there's a better spell for it.
If you really want to spill drinks, there's telekinesis.

If all you want to do is be able to have a way to do little tricks that are cool because they are magic (lighting candles without matches, snuffing them from anywhere in the room with no wind, moving small items around, pull a mouse out of a hat [that you really had in your pocket], etc) then it's the spell for you. A great way to represent magical convenience for your mage character, and little more. But that's just me.

[Deophaun]

hey i''m just telling you what the spell is capable of. whoever is trying to change someone's battle standard can figure that one out.
Where's facepalm when you need it.

and the information on prestidigitation is on pg 80 of tome and blood i have the book right here.
I know where Tome and Blood talks about prestidigitation. I am asking for the entry for prestidigitation (you know, the thing that tells you the casting time, duration, school, etc).

[NeoPhoenix0]

Yes, tome and blood. 3.0. In the update to 3.5, that language wasn't included. Even if it wasn't, instead of changing the pattern, they can change it into something exactly the same, but with a different pattern, because they can change the shape. Having to jump through that pointless hoop shows you're more interested than arguing the semantic of a rule than in helping with the conversation.

you're the offender here you haven't contributed at all. all you have done is make a claim i'm obsessed with semantics. i already said ask your dm before you use tome and blood.

i also heard a time some people cleaned and polished some shiny surfaces and set them up along a corridor and around a vampires coffin. the dm let them kill it come morning because they were being very creative.

[Hendel]

If all you want to do is be able to have a way to do little tricks that are cool because they are magic (lighting candles without matches, snuffing them from anywhere in the room with no wind, moving small items around, pull a mouse out of a hat [that you really had in your pocket], etc) then it's the spell for you. A great way to represent magical convenience for your mage character, and little more. But that's just me.
See this is what I think the "spirit" of Prestidigitation is. Just what the word means in our world, to make little tricks happen. I like the idea of pulling a mouse out of a pocket or even a coin from behind an ear (maybe Slight of Hand) and such.

If I were a DM I would be forgiving of little parlor tricks provided they did not have a more significant impact on the game than any other cantrip or orison.

[AttilaTheGeek]

Why does everybody love it?ive never seen it used in game, but everybody here loves it...I even saw it put on par with wish one time. Can somebody explain why to me? Was it sarcasm that I just missed?


Because it's basically minor wish, limited only by your imagination.

:smallbiggrin: *points to sig*

It's absolutely true. It can be a limited version of many other spells, like Mage Hand (one pound telekinesis), Ghost Sound (pick up something and drop it for a distraction), Disguise Self (that "color your skin green" is totally worth a disguise bonus), Purify Water (or at least make it taste pure), and Silent Image (but an actual small thing). It can also be an immature "screw you" to an NPC (make their drink taste like pee), get something out of a pit (move a rope around it), make some money (sell a fake thing), or even change the course of an entire campaign (if the MacGuffin is something small, like a ring).

[avr]

Puffs of dust while invisible to convince the monsters my character was running off in a particular direction ...

I think requiring prestigitation to be cool factor only, no actual use for anything, is rather missing the point of playing a tabletop RPG rather than a computer RPG.

[Ruethgar]

Best use I found for it, chill the air around you to 40 degrees so you can use all of the Frostburn feats.

[only1doug]

I love prestidigitation.

I've used it to:
Clean up a bunch of rusty cogs in an area we were passing through. (became very significant in the adventure).
Gather all the loose coinage scattered across a floor while investigating other things.
Keep characters hygiene standards high while on campaign.
flavour trail rations.
Disguise parties passage through dusty rooms (what footprints?).

Its a great utility spell, I wouldn't say that every adventuring problem can be solved by it, not remotely, but it can offer interesting options if you are willing to think creatively.

[Killer Angel]

It can't make sounds (that what ghost sound is for),

Ghost sound produces as much noise as four normal humans per caster level. You're not duplicating that, you're making the noise of a falling cup.






Color: You bring color to an object. You can restore faded hues or give it a new color. If you add color, it must be from the visible spectrum (red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo, or violet). You cannot change an object's pattern, such as adding or removing stripes or polka dots, but you can change the color in a pattern so that, for example, a blue garment with white stripes becomes green with yellow stripes.

(Emphasis mine)

True. For that, you need a different kind of effect. :smallamused:



Sketch: You create a two-dimensional visual figment of whatever you desire. You can leave the image hanging in the air, in which case it is immobile, or place it on a mobile object, such as a shield. The image can be no more than 1-foot square, and it lasts a maximum of 1 hour.

[ArcturusV]

Well, lets see, some things I've done with it?

I picked up a few river rocks and used a Prestidigitation to warm them up. Instant hand/chest heaters as you stuck them in your gloves/shirt during a cold adventure.

Cleaning of course, rooms, people, clothing. It can, by RAW, also fix messes that you wouldn't be able to mundanely clean. Tramping through the sewers? You're not getting that filth out of your clothes/non-metallic armor no matter how much soap and clean water you use.

The reason "Shaving" works, as I saw that mentioned on the front page, is part of cleaning. Losing your beard, or trimming your hair does not "damage" you in any way the game considers damage. It does however "clean" you depending on your definition of cleanliness and grooming.

Bonuses to Performance checks. I used a lot of Prestidigitation effects as a mage to be a "street performer", doing simple things like coin tricks, but also fancier things like making a marionette dance without strings.

All simple things, all highly effective when I needed to do it, which did result in mechanical bonuses for me, none of which really replicated any other spell effect, all within limitations. Not even anywhere near the most flagrant examples of the spell.

It's just a handy spell. I've never NOT had it on my list. Because it's one of those things like ____ Image spells. I know no matter what happens during a day, I'll find a reason to use it that benefits me.

[Jon_Dahl]

My most used prestidigitation:
Wash your clothes after melee. Do you realise how bloody you are??

[Legendxp]

"My most used prestidigitation:
Wash your clothes after melee. Do you realise how bloody you are??"

LOL - Never actually thought of this before. Maybe I should start roleplaying blood into my games.

[Ruethgar]

Pitty it is impossible to make any objects with presto. Lost's of fun things could be done with that. You could Snowcast and Flash Frost Spell it so that whatever went into an area you clean, or chill(such as 1lb of air) would take damage. Best part is, it's a non-action effect to chill! Not much damage, but 2 for free is still nice.

[dascarletm]

I love prestidigitation. It is one of those spells that allow you to reward ingenuity.

[NeoPhoenix0]

Pitty it is impossible to make any objects with presto.


Prestidigitation can create small objects, but they look crude and artificial. The materials created by a prestidigitation spell are extremely fragile, and they cannot be used as tools, weapons, or spell components.

you can create objects. they are just too fragile to do damage

it seems too me that the only real use of that function is to demonstrate what an object looks like or street magic. any thoughts on the use for this function.

[only1doug]

you can create objects. they are just too fragile to do damage

it seems too me that the only real use of that function is to demonstrate what an object looks like or street magic. any thoughts on the use for this function.

I agree.

I think its supposed to be the string of hankies, bunch of flowers pulled from a hat kind of thing.

If you actually tried to use the hankies to blow your nose with you would find that they disintegrate, if you put the flowers in a vase they would wilt within hours.

Short term flash objects to impress the crowd is the feel I had for it.

[dascarletm]

I agree.

I think its supposed to be the string of hankies, bunch of flowers pulled from a hat kind of thing.

If you actually tried to use the hankies to blow your nose with you would find that they disintegrate, if you put the flowers in a vase they would wilt within hours.

Short term flash objects to impress the crowd is the feel I had for it.

Now here is where my group always fights. When attempting to mix in a few presti'd coins when buying something, is it feasible at all? Half of us say no, they look too fake; the others say maybe.

[Ruethgar]

Prestidigitation can create small objects, but they look crude and artificial. The materials created by a prestidigitation spell are extremely fragile, and they cannot be used as tools, weapons, or spell components.


it seems too me that the only real use of that function is to demonstrate what an object looks like or street magic. any thoughts on the use for this function.

By creating a recognizable object, you have created a tool in demonstrating what an object looks like. Similarly, creating an amorphous object is a tool in demonstrating the definition of the term amorphous.

[dascarletm]

By creating a recognizable object, you have created a tool in demonstrating what an object looks like. Similarly, creating an amorphous object is a tool in demonstrating the definition of the term amorphous.

I think one could argue that any object is a "tool" of some sort.

[Ruethgar]

Now here is where my group always fights. When attempting to mix in a few presti'd coins when buying something, is it feasible at all? Half of us say no, they look too fake; the others say maybe.

I think that by using the change feature in addition to the creation and a good forgery skill it could work, just hope the shop keeper doesn't look to closely.

Edit: I tend to define tools as the equipment entry for the purpose of said limitations which would mean that it would be viable for material components in mundane works though.

[NeoPhoenix0]

bunch of flowers pulled from a hat kind of thing...

Short term flash objects to impress the crowd is the feel I had for it.

yeah flashing the flowers could work but if they get a good look at the flowers i think they might be less impressed


Now here is where my group always fights. When attempting to mix in a few presti'd coins when buying something, is it feasible at all? Half of us say no, they look too fake; the others say maybe.

if the description of the spell says they look artificial i would think they look fake

[dascarletm]

but how fake? we all agree on close inspection , yes, it would be obvious, but if being flashed in a bag of coins could a few 'blend in'?

[NeoPhoenix0]

maybe a dc 10 or dc 10+spell mod spot check to see if he notices?

[ahenobarbi]

Who in their right mind doesn't inspect money they get paid with?

[Gerrtt]

In regards to how fake they look:

They look fake. It's like looking at a plastic plant. Once you look at it you can tell it's fake. And then there's the other thing you have to deal with; depending on the local laws you may be a felon and have the authorities on your tail, or at the very least an angry shop keeper and his brute bodyguard/neighbor/best friend who wants their money that disappeared after an hour.

A high level wizard might not worry about that, but a low level one would.

[dascarletm]

Who in their right mind doesn't inspect money they get paid with?

Thugs you hire with a sack of coins... (every movie i've seen this happen in they take it and divide the spoils later.) Then if the authorities catch them your paper (or metal rather) trail is gone!

[NeoPhoenix0]

they always seem to at least peak in the bag to me.

[Kornaki]

So fill it up with prestidigitation coins and then put the real ones on top.

Would the coins have even remotely close to the same weight as real coins though? The bag might feel like it's almost empty

[NeoPhoenix0]

this would probably only work for stupid incompetent thugs. mostly only good for cannon fodder.

[dascarletm]

this would probably only work for stupid incompetent thugs. mostly only good for cannon fodder.

Or good to take a fall for killing a political official that is trying to outlaw your arcane university even though you saved his stupid kingdom like a billion times!

but I digress...

[NeoPhoenix0]

It can't make sounds (that what ghost sound is for)

i completely forgot at the end of the spell it specifically says you can make a tinkling of ethereal music. it is far weaker than ghost sounds but you can produce sounds.

[Allanimal]

Sorry, I'm a pathfinder player. It doesn't have limited uses per day.

well, there are only so many standard actions in a day. so, for earth-like worlds, you can only cast it 14400 times per day. and that's without taking time to eat or sleep, so the practical limit is somewhat lower.

[Ruethgar]

well, there are only so many standard actions in a day. so, for earth-like worlds, you can only cast it 14400 times per day. and that's without taking time to eat or sleep, so the practical limit is somewhat lower.

Prestidigitation lasts for one hour allowing you to create various minor magical effects within that hour much like polymorph gives you the abilities of the creature you change into even though they are not the direct effect of the polymorph spell. So you would only need to be able to cast it 24 times tops. There is no specified limit to how long it takes to activate the spell once it has been cast.

If one insists that a standard action be taken each time the spell is to be activated, then time stop with metamagic reductions makes that a bit more, also haste, templates that add haste-like effects, multiple armed casters with multi tasking, and the chronomancer class from AEG.

[dascarletm]

Prestidigitation lasts for one hour allowing you to create various minor magical effects within that hour much like polymorph gives you the abilities of the creature you change into even though they are not the direct effect of the polymorph spell. So you would only need to be able to cast it 24 times tops. There is no specified limit to how long it takes to activate the spell once it has been cast.

If one insists that a standard action be taken each time the spell is to be activated, then time stop with metamagic reductions makes that a bit more, also haste, templates that add haste-like effects, multiple armed casters with multi tasking, and the chronomancer class from AEG.

seems like a lot of work to make a poor bard seem to pee his pants in front of a crowd.:smalltongue:

[Ruethgar]

seems like a lot of work to make a poor bard seem to pee his pants in front of a crowd.:smalltongue:

Never skimp out on consuming resources when used for comedic effect! lol

[zorenathres]

just last night, I hosted a new game for some new players, & the newest player really wanted to play a wizard, starting at level 2, & after showing him Prestidigitation his eyes lit up! Nowhere near optimized for combat or control, the player managed to surprise me again & again with clever applications of the spell in his first game ever... i named it the MVS (most valuable spell) for the session...

the coolest thing he did was tricking the BBEG & his mooks to fall right into the pit the players were searching for loot by polishing & dampening the stone floor above the pit. Much to their surprise the BBEG fell right into their laps, (while technically similar in effect to a Grease spell, his clever application convinced me to go with it...)

quickly disposing of sentries bodies by dumping them into the pit trap & leaving a thick layer of dirt to cover them, covering their tracks through the mines by spreading dirt/ dust behind them,

dampening a cloth & wringing it out to get some water in the middle of the desert (& keeping his clothes frosty all the while), & a dozen other minor things, though their effects may vary, it really gave the new player a sense that he was accomplishing things, since he is not really optimized for combat, it gave him a lot to do outside of combat.

[eggynack]

By creating a recognizable object, you have created a tool in demonstrating what an object looks like. Similarly, creating an amorphous object is a tool in demonstrating the definition of the term amorphous.
That just seems somewhat ridiculous. You'd be all, "I have produced this rabbit out of a silken hat. View my profound magical acumen. Now you, child in the front row, observe this rabbit. Observe it such that you may know what a rabbit truly is. Fwamozod. The rabbit has disappeared, as I am using it as a tool to display to you the nature of rabbits. Now watch as I cool the air until one of you observes that the air is being cooled, and uses that cooling to become cooler. Revel in the magic of Heisenberg, magician of the uncertainty principle."

[Gerrtt]

So, I think we can all agree that part of what makes it so great is whether or not your DM will let you get away with all kinds of shenanigans with it. If your DM is permissive then it's quite possibly all you'll ever need out of a 0th level spell. If they are less permissive, it's just a bunch of hocus pocus for flavor and the moving the occasional one-pound object.

[Eldest]

If one insists that a standard action be taken each time the spell is to be activated, then time stop with metamagic reductions makes that a bit more, also haste, templates that add haste-like effects, multiple armed casters with multi tasking, and the chronomancer class from AEG.

Well, nitpick: Haste adds extra attacks, not another standard action.

[NeoPhoenix0]

it's great without shenanigans. it is one of the most versatile role-playing spells. and can be used to just get by in a number of mundane conditions like deserts and arctic conditions as long as you have a way to get food.

[Ruethgar]

Well, nitpick: Haste adds extra attacks, not another standard action.

Blasted revisions, flesh mage and reach spell should make it applicable as a weapon.

[ArcturusV]

it's great without shenanigans. it is one of the most versatile role-playing spells. and can be used to just get by in a number of mundane conditions like deserts and arctic conditions as long as you have a way to get food.

Exactly. I mean, it's not a shenanigan. You can heat and cool objects. It's already in the rules that proper attire/mundane equipment can give you bonuses to your Fort Save versus these mundane, but potentially dangerous, environments.

Something as simple as what I mentioned earlier, heating up rocks and using them to warm you/wear under your clothing. Providing a cool, damp cloth on your head in the desert, etc. All things that you could do with Prestidigitation by RAW.

And by RAW, similar considerations are usually a +5 Fort Save against those situations. (See: Cold Weather Gear PHB, Desert Gear from A&EG). Now, also, by RAW, none of those are "Tools" as they are listed under "Clothing" not the "Tools" section. By RAW what a tool is, is quite defined. There's a list of Tools in equipment sections of books. And that's also one of the few times where RAW and Logic kind of make sense. RAW, you couldn't use Prestidigitation to say, make a sack capable of carrying X lbs of loot. Fine. Nor could you make a ladder, a crowbar, torches, etc. Or at the very least, you wouldn't be able to make something with it that could be used as a tool of that ilk. You could still make a crowbar. It'd just shatter/bend rather than what you were prying at, etc.

[NeoPhoenix0]

how brightly do the glowing balls of light it produces glow? like a candle, less?

[Zaq]

One ruling I encourage (but don't GM enough to actually apply) is that having Prestidigitation available (or, if you're a bit stingier, having it active) just makes you look magical. You know, it makes you look like someone who's got magic at their disposal. Want a shower of sparks to appear when you flourish? Cool. Want a book to hold itself in front of you and turn the pages when you're ready? This is your spell. Want a dramatic breeze to ruffle your cloak, even indoors? Done. Want your eyes to literally flash when you display emotion? Sure thing. Want your footsteps to echo imposingly, even on a carpeted floor? Here ya go. Want to have energy crackle around you as you brag about your arcane might? We got this.

So you know, all that stuff that just screams "I have magic, I am willing to use it, and I don't care who knows it." Is it slightly more than the spell prescribes? Yeah, probably. But if you feel like Wizards, Sorcerers, and similar characters should have those theatrical effects at their disposal—and I do—then Prestidigitation is as good a way as any to represent them. (You could just as easily allow any caster to simply DO that, but I feel like this is a halfway point between "no, it doesn't SAY you can do that" and just something-for-nothing.)

[Baroncognito]

well, there are only so many standard actions in a day. so, for earth-like worlds, you can only cast it 14400 times per day. and that's without taking time to eat or sleep, so the practical limit is somewhat lower.

I stand corrected. So, with a ring of sustenance or a clear spindle Ioun stone, you could cast 22 hours in an Earth-like world, and you would be limited to a mere 13.200 castings of Prestidigitation a day.

(sometimes I feel like they got things backwards, and the first level school, domain, and bloodline powers should have unlimited uses per day, while cantrips and orisons should be limited to 3+modifier uses per spell per day)

[Steward]

That just seems somewhat ridiculous. You'd be all, "I have produced this rabbit out of a silken hat. View my profound magical acumen. Now you, child in the front row, observe this rabbit. Observe it such that you may know what a rabbit truly is. Fwamozod. The rabbit has disappeared, as I am using it as a tool to display to you the nature of rabbits. Now watch as I cool the air until one of you observes that the air is being cooled, and uses that cooling to become cooler. Revel in the magic of Heisenberg, magician of the uncertainty principle."

That got uncomfortably close to a parody of the old, "Hello, children! Look at your rabbit, now back to mine..." (http://www.youtube.com/v/owGykVbfgUE)