Rand al'Thor vs Xena

[Yuven]

Who should win andy why?

I found this competition: http://www.hpb.com/heroes/
I am sure many of you have seen it, but I have yet to see a discussion about it.

I have read and enjoyed the Wheel of Time books, and know a bit about Rand... But I know nothing about this other character. Can Xena really handle the worldshattering ammount of power that Rand wield? Is it popularity that makes her win, or is it actually her power?

Please inform me, and/or discuss it. I would love to see what the playground has to offer this subject.

[Olinser]

Who should win andy why?

I found this competition: http://www.hpb.com/heroes/
I am sure many of you have seen it, but I have yet to see a discussion about it.

I have read and enjoyed the Wheel of Time books, and know a bit about Rand... But I know nothing about this other character. Can Xena really handle the worldshattering ammount of power that Rand wield? Is it popularity that makes her win, or is it actually her power?

Please inform me, and/or discuss it. I would love to see what the playground has to offer this subject.

That survey appears to be based on 'bravery', rather than power.

Also, this appears to be a variation of the 'character battle arena' that Gamefaqs runs each year. Basically it's a popularity poll.

After all, can anybody seriously debate that Han Solo vs Goku should end in Han's victory? (as it did in this contest).

[Traab]

Yeah, xena dies. Fast. Maybe if it was just blade versus blade it would be a solid fight. I admit I havent read wheel of time since book 7 but isnt rand basically a blademaster level swordsman? So if we cut out all magic and just use raw physical skill. Meaning xena can do her leaping jumping acrobatics and bounce her chakram around like she is captain america while Rand is doing his blade master sword fighting skill, then it would be a reasonable contest. But once we bring magic into the fray, hell no.

[snoopy13a]

After all, can anybody seriously debate that Han Solo vs Goku should end in Han's victory? (as it did in this contest).

Easy. Han will shoot first :smallbiggrin:

[Triaxx]

Hmm... I'd give it to Xena on technicals, but Rand has other issues that would stop him. At least until he incinerated her.

[Olinser]

Easy. Han will shoot first :smallbiggrin:

Well played.

[ArlEammon]

What next? Superman vs Captain America?

[KillianHawkeye]

Easy. Han will shoot first :smallbiggrin:

Pfffft. Goku was already immune to bullets when he was a little kid. That was WAY before he could blow up entire planets. You think a surprise blaster shot is going to do anything? :smallamused:

[Ramza00]

Rand is afraid to harm a women, but then again he could just use weaves of air tied off to create a telekinetic like effect holding xena in place.

[Traab]

Rand is afraid to harm a women, but then again he could just use weaves of air tied off to create a telekinetic like effect holding xena in place.

I thought it was Matt who had women issues from I think the first book where he killed a female darkfriend and it messed him up. I freely admit its been years since I read it so I am probably wrong.

[KillianHawkeye]

I thought it was Matt who had women issues from I think the first book where he killed a female darkfriend and it messed him up. I freely admit its been years since I read it so I am probably wrong.

You're both right. ALL the main characters in that series have women issues. (Even the women.)

[Olinser]

I thought it was Matt who had women issues from I think the first book where he killed a female darkfriend and it messed him up. I freely admit its been years since I read it so I am probably wrong.

You should re-read it. The last book in the series just came out last month.

[Traab]

You should re-read it. The last book in the series just came out last month.

No thanks, I stopped reading because I got so damn confused and turned around that I gave up. Its just way too much story to reread the 5000 pages I would need to remember what has happened, and the 5k pages afterwards to finish it.

[Otomodachi]

You're both right. ALL the main characters in that series have women issues. (Even the women.)

I feel like it'd be MOST accurate to say Robert Jordan had issues regarding women, from reading his books.

[Douglas]

Easy. Han will shoot first :smallbiggrin:
And Goku will exclaim "Hey, that stings!" before delivering a punch strong enough to flatten a skyscraper from 500 miles away.

[Jerthanis]

I feel like it'd be MOST accurate to say Robert Jordan had issues regarding women, from reading his books.

To be fair to RJ, his story is about a fantasy world where Masculine and Feminine energy form the basis for all existence. If it wasn't at least mostly ABOUT the interaction of Masculinity and Femininity, and didn't distinguish the two as separate complimentary elements, it would undermine its own themes.

I make a joke that Xena must be in absolute command of all four fundamental forces of the universe in order for the physical feats she displays to be possible. The basic unreality of her most basic actions in that show, and the fact that she pretty much never loses to anyone, including gods, shows that she's basically omnipotent. But Rand can just erase people from existence by pointing at them so...

But since the contest is about bravery... how did HAN SOLO end up in the final four? He's not a coward to be sure, but his most iconic scenes generally involve running away or only fighting when he's at an advantage. His archetype isn't one of great bravery. Add to this that Katniss, who spends most of her third book on the verge of insanity due to the traumas she has witnessed over the course of her adventures beats out Tris in this contest when Tris' SUPERPOWER is that she's uniquely fearless even among a group whose sole ideological priority is to overcome fear.

[KillianHawkeye]

To be fair to RJ, his story is about a fantasy world where Masculine and Feminine energy form the basis for all existence. If it wasn't at least mostly ABOUT the interaction of Masculinity and Femininity, and didn't distinguish the two as separate complimentary elements, it would undermine its own themes.

That is a really good point.

[Soras Teva Gee]

Rand once stopped a knife thrown at him in mid-flight. He was not expecting it because it came from an ally from across maybe a room. He can immobilize a person completely with the same effect and all he needs is a bare moment of though. Nothing remotely human is beating that, he can even avoid his old-now-resolved-psychosis by not killing as effortlessly as killing.

Only option is a complete sneak attack against a Channeler even half as powerful as Rand... except he's ta'veren so even that will fail by some chance occurrence like him turning around at just that moment. Its one thing to be a hero, and quite another to have plot armor as a totally explicit power on your character sheet.

Lucy Lawless might be able to do it, since she can fly and all... but not Xena.

Now given though that that link is officially bravery and really popularity though yeah its quite understandable. Its quite remarkable Rand beat Gandalf and Link on that front though. And Samus beat Han. I must really commend that contest for thrashing ostensible conventional wisdom.

[JoshL]

On power, no contest, particularly how the series ended...

...with Rand gaining power over the Pattern itself, being able to reshape the world without channeling.

On bravery, Link probably should have won by definition, possessing as he does the Triforce of Courage, and thus being more or less an avatar of bravery.

[Olinser]

On power, no contest, particularly how the series ended...

...with Rand gaining power over the Pattern itself, being able to reshape the world without channeling.

On bravery, Link probably should have won by definition, possessing as he does the Triforce of Courage, and thus being more or less an avatar of bravery.

AhHA - but that bravery arguably comes from an outside source - the titular Triforce - and not Link himself.

[JoshL]

Fair point, but wasn't there something about the triforce pieces resonating with the trait that the potential bearer believes in most?

[Emmerask]

On bravery?

We have the "farmboy" who accepts his own prophesied death to safe the world and we have the warrior princess raised by warriors to do warrior "stuff".

As for link I think he is not really a well established character, imo he lacks humanity to actually judge if he is indeed brave or not.

So for me the clear winner is Rand.

[Kitten Champion]

What if we gave Xena the Foxhead medallion?

I suppose that Ta'veren-ness would still trump everything,

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Pfffft. Goku was already immune to bullets when he was a little kid. That was WAY before he could blow up entire planets. You think a surprise blaster shot is going to do anything? :smallamused:
Hokey chi powers and ancient martial arts are no substitute for a good blaster at your side.

[Ramza00]

On power, no contest, particularly how the series ended......with Rand gaining power over the Pattern itself, being able to reshape the world without channeling.
If you are giving the bests feats to Rand (instead of average feats) you have to do the same to Xena.
Barely watched Xena so I do not know all the details, but according to wikipedia xena in season 5 was anointed with the power to kill Gods.


What if we gave Xena the Foxhead medallion?
I suppose that Ta'veren-ness would still trump everything,
Similar to D&D Antimagic field, things that are conjured or controlled by magic still work if they are created outside the medallion effect and then are transported into the medallion's space. Thus these following things would still kill a normal human with the medallion effects.

1) You can kill someone with lighting bolts even if they have the foxhead medallion for you create the lighting outside the medallion effect and then send it downwards.
2) Flinging large quantities of weapons at someone (using threads of air similar to telekinesis) would still work. You wouldn't control the last few feat or so but inertia would cause the weapons to strike true
3) You can pick up a very large boulder and then drop it on xena.

[KillianHawkeye]

Hokey chi powers and ancient martial arts are no substitute for a good blaster at your side.

Says the guy who only has a blaster.

[Ramza00]

Hokey chi powers and ancient martial arts are no substitute for a good blaster at your side.

Darth Vader's Response..We be honored if you would join us ... (for dinner) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEJbk7zrxs0)

[Flickerdart]

Rand is probably one of the most overpowered characters in fiction. I don't think Xena has anything in her arsenal against a weapon so powerful that it destroys people backwards in time...and that Rand uses casually before coming anywhere near his final power level.

[thethird]

The discussion is moot Xena won.

[DaedalusMkV]

1) You can kill someone with lighting bolts even if they have the foxhead medallion for you create the lighting outside the medallion effect and then send it downwards.
2) Flinging large quantities of weapons at someone (using threads of air similar to telekinesis) would still work. You wouldn't control the last few feat or so but inertia would cause the weapons to strike true
3) You can pick up a very large boulder and then drop it on xena.

1: No. Channeled lightning in WoT is still considered to be a 'weave' and would bounce off the foxhead, just like the fireballs they throw.
2: Yes. The traditional counter to the Foxhead was to throw mundane objects at the person using it.
3: See 2.

Anything created by Channeling would be stopped by the Foxhead amulet, including lightning, Gateways and Balefire. The way to kill someone with one with the One Power is to either throw heavy, pointy or sharp things at them until they stop moving or use the traditional Earth combat weaves to explode the ground around them and tear them up with shrapnel. It would be nowhere near sufficient to allow even a badass normal like Xena to compete with Rand "I can kill 20,000 charging Trollocs before they get halfway to me" al'Thor, especialy because her traditional tactic of throwing her Chackram will just result in her losing said weapon.

[Emmerask]

The discussion is moot Xena won.

Winning because of popularity is not the same as winning because of reasoning :smallwink:

Rand al who? yeah I click Xena :smallsmile:

[Soras Teva Gee]

1: No. Channeled lightning in WoT is still considered to be a 'weave' and would bounce off the foxhead, just like the fireballs they throw.
2: Yes. The traditional counter to the Foxhead was to throw mundane objects at the person using it.
3: See 2.

Anything created by Channeling would be stopped by the Foxhead amulet, including lightning, Gateways and Balefire. The way to kill someone with one with the One Power is to either throw heavy, pointy or sharp things at them until they stop moving or use the traditional Earth combat weaves to explode the ground around them and tear them up with shrapnel. It would be nowhere near sufficient to allow even a badass normal like Xena to compete with Rand "I can kill 20,000 charging Trollocs before they get halfway to me" al'Thor, especialy because her traditional tactic of throwing her Chackram will just result in her losing said weapon.

Right some points:

1) Lighting is precisely what Rahvin used to kill Mat in FoH. Rand even notes explicitly the medallion didn't protect Mat. So yeah lightning works. We can quibble over targeting, but Rand can probably level a city without an angreal anyways. (I can speculate pretty well on why lightning would work and fire wouldn't if you'd like)

2) Mat Traveled more then once, to Salidar with Rand and to Ebou Dar with Elayne & Co. If you mean portal slicing, I'm inclined to say its more a side effect of the wormhole then a OP contstruct. Normal gates aren't good weapons and I've no clue if Deathgates would be different, though a human could survive one with a bit of luck.

3) Balefire is just as murky. I'm inclined here though by it being sliced by Callandor, cuendillar, and the Don't Touch The Streams effect with Moridin to call it a "pure" weave and thus the medallion would function. But impossible to be sure.

In general the medallion opens a chance since Channelers show a preference for the direct approach. Rand before the last two books would be an open question on if his skill and sanity are up to that. Lews Therin though would know of the gholam if not the medallion itself and undoubtedly would be able to deal with it. Still a low order chance though.

[Starbuck_II]

She can perform Goku=esque stuff like telekinetic and energy projection after she realized the truth in Lao Ma's teachings.
So she can shoot just well. She can kill gods. She was trained by Ares god of war.
Plus, if she touches her hands to Rand, he is paralyzed by pressure points.
She isn't a normal human by end of series.

[Traab]

She can perform Goku=esque stuff like telekinetic and energy projection after she realized the truth in Lao Ma's teachings.
So she can shoot just well. She can kill gods. She was trained by Ares god of war.
Plus, if she touches her hands to Rand, he is paralyzed by pressure points.
She isn't a normal human by end of series.

Is that before or after she dies and inexplicably her and gabrielle become christian angels? Probably the biggest wtf moment of the series imo. I mean, the entire time she is dealing with the greek pantheon, then she gets crucified and goes to christian heaven instead of the Elysian Fields? Wut?

[Starbuck_II]

Is that before or after she dies and inexplicably her and gabrielle become christian angels? Probably the biggest wtf moment of the series imo. I mean, the entire time she is dealing with the greek pantheon, then she gets crucified and goes to christian heaven instead of the Elysian Fields? Wut?

She was reincarnated a few times so maybe that changes what you count as. I'll admit the show can be confusing when you look back.

[Ramza00]

She was reincarnated a few times so maybe that changes what you count as. I'll admit the show can be confusing when you look back.
You think this is a show where you see her with the downfall of troy one moment and the next moment you have her talking to caesar.

Something like 3000 years of history are covered by xena (see link below)
http://www.whoosh.org/issue65/alvord1.html

[Hawriel]

To be fair to RJ, his story is about a fantasy world where Masculine and Feminine energy form the basis for all existence. If it wasn't at least mostly ABOUT the interaction of Masculinity and Femininity, and didn't distinguish the two as separate complimentary elements, it would undermine its own themes.


Jordan seems to have made the female, male relation ship built on Judeo christian myth of the original sin of Adam and Eve. However Jordan created his gender dynamics as man being the first one to sin. At least thats how I saw the contexts of the taint and the humans reaction to it.



But since the contest is about bravery... how did HAN SOLO end up in the final four? He's not a coward to be sure, but his most iconic scenes generally involve running away or only fighting when he's at an advantage. His archetype isn't one of great bravery. Add to this that Katniss, who spends most of her third book on the verge of insanity due to the traumas she has witnessed over the course of her adventures beats out Tris in this contest when Tris' SUPERPOWER is that she's uniquely fearless even among a group whose sole ideological priority is to overcome fear.

Bravery is the measurement of how a person conducts themselves in the face of fear, terror, certain death, humiliation, shame, or other such devastating situation.

Han Solo is not a cowered. It is not showing less bravery by running away when it is the best course of action. He is being intelligent. You are confusing bravery with over romanticized machismo, or more succinctly stupidity.

Rand would win against Xena in a sword fight. He is a master swordsmen uqual to Lan, Tam, and several other top tier individuals in the Wheel of time. Even with the missing hand.

[Kitten Champion]

Jordan seems to have made the female, male relation ship built on Judeo christian myth of the original sin of Adam and Eve. However Jordan created his gender dynamics as man being the first one to sin. At least thats how I saw the contexts of the taint and the humans reaction to it.

I don't know, the original sin would've been the Age of Legend's lust for power creating the bore to the Dark One in the first place -- which was the working of both sexes. Lews Therin's pride leading to his fall from grace does have biblical and other literary overtones.

[Soras Teva Gee]

She can perform Goku=esque stuff like telekinetic and energy projection after she realized the truth in Lao Ma's teachings.
So she can shoot just well. She can kill gods. She was trained by Ares god of war.
Plus, if she touches her hands to Rand, he is paralyzed by pressure points.
She isn't a normal human by end of series.

Unless I missed more a lot more then I thought I don't think that Xena had the FX budget to match Rand.

We want to get into rare occurences for Rand and we have things like clearing out an artificial mountain full of Trollocs with living lightning, his death throes as Lew Therin made a volcano. Callandor is described as being able to level city wall in a swing and Choden Kal is several order of magnitude beyond that.

And gods were pretty lousy in Herc/Xena, you just needed something special to keep them beaten.

However...



Rand would win against Xena in a sword fight. He is a master swordsmen uqual to Lan, Tam, and several other top tier individuals in the Wheel of time. Even with the missing hand.

... yeah I'm going with only human aside from the OP and fiction is lousy with master swordsmen. Someone clearly superhuman like Xena will trounce him if he can't channel.

[Traab]

Unless I missed more a lot more then I thought I don't think that Xena had the FX budget to match Rand.

We want to get into rare occurences for Rand and we have things like clearing out an artificial mountain full of Trollocs with living lightning, his death throes as Lew Therin made a volcano. Callandor is described as being able to level city wall in a swing and Choden Kal is several order of magnitude beyond that.

And gods were pretty lousy in Herc/Xena, you just needed something special to keep them beaten.

However...



... yeah I'm going with only human aside from the OP and fiction is lousy with master swordsmen. Someone clearly superhuman like Xena will trounce him if he can't channel.


While I wouldnt say he would get trounced, I WOULD say it would be one hell of a closer match blade to blade. No funky amulets, or magic powers, just pure physicality and bladework. I might give xena the edge just because rand, while a blademaster, didnt spend most of his life doing nothing but working on improving his sword skills. Xena spent all her time using her weapons and training with them, and relying only on them to save her in a fight. Rands attention was more spread out amongst sword training, channeling training, forming and ruling an empire, etc etc etc. Xena just roamed, fought, and roamed some more.

[Soras Teva Gee]

While I wouldnt say he would get trounced, I WOULD say it would be one hell of a closer match blade to blade. No funky amulets, or magic powers, just pure physicality and bladework. I might give xena the edge just because rand, while a blademaster, didnt spend most of his life doing nothing but working on improving his sword skills. Xena spent all her time using her weapons and training with them, and relying only on them to save her in a fight. Rands attention was more spread out amongst sword training, channeling training, forming and ruling an empire, etc etc etc. Xena just roamed, fought, and roamed some more.

Trounce might be a bit strong now that I think about it, but being a master swordsman does just means you won't cut your foot off in a fight in real story terms.

Probably would be worth watching the fight though.

[Kitten Champion]

While I wouldnt say he would get trounced, I WOULD say it would be one hell of a closer match blade to blade. No funky amulets, or magic powers, just pure physicality and bladework. I might give xena the edge just because rand, while a blademaster, didnt spend most of his life doing nothing but working on improving his sword skills. Xena spent all her time using her weapons and training with them, and relying only on them to save her in a fight. Rands attention was more spread out amongst sword training, channeling training, forming and ruling an empire, etc etc etc. Xena just roamed, fought, and roamed some more.

He does acquire a substantial amount of experience from his past life. Demandred shows us that swordsmanship skills in the Age of Legends was nothing to sneeze at.

[Traab]

He does acquire a substantial amount of experience from his past life. Demandred shows us that swordsmanship skills in the Age of Legends was nothing to sneeze at.

Ah well, I never got that far in the series. I mostly remember him getting dedicated training from Lan all the way back in book 2-3 I think, then some semisporadic training over the course of the series in between fighting armies, fighting forsaken, and trying to keep the world from flying apart, as well as trying to learn how to channel without driving himself nuts.