Epic feats, can they be taken at a lower level?

[Nornalhorst]

If someone is below epic level but somehow has all the other prereqs for a particular epic feat and if the epic feat doesn't state in its requirements a level of any sort could that feat be taken?

[Divide by Zero]

You must be epic level to take epic feats. The only exception is true dragons of at least Old age (Draconomicon pg. 66), which means Dragonwrought Kobold is the only practical way for PCs.

[Karnith]

If someone is below epic level but somehow has all the other prereqs for a particular epic feat and if the epic feat doesn't state in its requirements a level of any sort could that feat be taken?
Without some cheese, no. Per the SRD: (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#acquiringEpicFeats)
Characters gain epic feats in the following ways:

At 21st level, and every three levels thereafter, the character may select an epic feat in place of a nonepic feat.

Each character class gains bonus epic feats according to the class description. These feats must be selected from the list of bonus epic feats for that class.
Epic feats can generally only be selected once a character is at least 21st level, though there are some ways around this (being an old dragonwrought kobold is one).

[ddude987]

You must be epic level to take epic feats. The only exception is true dragons of at least Old age (Draconomicon pg. 66), which means Dragonwrought Kobold is the only practical way for PCs.

The Draconomicon says nothing about requiring true dragon. It simply states dragon.


[Epic Feats] are available to characters of 21st level of higher. Dragons of at least old age also can choose these feats even if they have no class levels.

[Nornalhorst]

You must be epic level to take epic feats. The only exception is true dragons of at least Old age (Draconomicon pg. 66), which means Dragonwrought Kobold is the only practical way for PCs.

Oh okay someone was telling me a build they had and somehow they had 2 epic feats, but they were also a dragonwrought kobold:smallbiggrin:, so cheesy.

[Divide by Zero]

The Draconomicon says nothing about requiring true dragon. It simply states dragon.

Only true dragons have age categories, so other dragons implicitly can't meet that requirement.

[ddude987]

Only true dragons have age categories, so other dragons implicitly can't meet that requirement.

Dragonwrought Kobolds have age categories and can easily be considered not true dragons.

[Chaosvii7]

Dragonwrought Kobolds have age categories and can easily be considered not true dragons.

Okay, then how about: Only CERTAIN non-true dragons have age categories, so CERTAIN other dragons can meet that requirement.

[Hendel]

Only true dragons have age categories, so other dragons implicitly can't meet that requirement.
Amen! This is where the munchkins diverge from the rules.

Being old or venerable on the age chart is not the same as being old in the sense of dragon age categories.

So the answer is no, everyone that is not a dragon AND cannot claim to have an age category of old or higher must be level 21 to take an epic feat.

Edit: I stand corrected. After a quick glance to Races of Dragon as it has been a long time since I used it, Kobolds do actually have age categories and and an age effect table. Now the two do not match on wording as an old age category is 41 to 60 years while old on the effects chart is 90 years. So I guess a Dragonwraught Kobold could take an epic feat at 1st level if they just happen to be over 41 at the time. As a DM I would have a lot of heartburn as I am not sure this was the intent of those that wrote the rules.

It also highlights the problem with playtesting of material. Draconomicon may be playtested against Core rules but was it playtested against Races of Dragons or vice versa.

[Krobar]

Generally no, not without DM fiat.

[ddude987]

Amen! This is where the munchkins diverge from the rules.

Being old or venerable on the age chart is not the same as being old in the sense of dragon age categories.

So the answer is no, everyone that is not a dragon AND cannot claim to have an age category of old or higher must be level 21 to take an epic feat.

I certainly was not saying that Dragons without age categories qualify. Sorry for any confusion.