Generic I want to be everything build! *Please Rate and Advise*

[CyberThread]

Am fiddling with a build, for a group that the DM wants to focus on a mostly Tier 2 or Tier 3 build, and has gone so far as to outright ban Tier 1 classes, and Tier 4-5.




My concept is a Changeling Psych Rog 5/ Chemelon 4/ Master of Mask 1



From what I see I get this

Gives me PSi powers
,6th level casting of Cleric, wizard or druid
Gladiator Mask( Prof with any weapon exotic or melee )
Faceless Mask Caster level 15 on detection plus +5 against mind affect spells

good chunk of social and rog skills, anti trap , stealth, and changeling as a race to enhance the randomness of all these combined.


To overall Make a Spy/court jester build. An when we eventually level up, a bunch of options to go into things instead of being rail roaded into a specific path, and only one feat tax from the PRC's allowing myself to focus on feats that are useful instead of tax's for creation.





Do you think that is strong enough that you would consider it equavilant on a tier 3 scale, or to scatter shot to be good at anything.

[Flickerdart]

At level 10, you have a pittance of spells, an equivalent pittance of powers, very few hit points, and no ability score synergy. You will die horribly as soon as anything sneezes your way, and a pure Psychic Rogue will trounce you in infiltration, social skills, trap handling, and combat.

[CyberThread]

Hmm, why is factotum/chemelon considered an okay build then?

[Flickerdart]

Because Factotum has plentiful passive/free action bonuses to stuff. Between that, its Intelligence focus, its skills, its versatility, its encounter-based resources, and its ability to straight up get extra actions, it splices well with pretty much anything.

It's still not a great build, because you lose out on a ton of great class features, but it's not awful.

[CyberThread]

What would you suggest then, keeping in mind that wizard/polymorph, is not the answer in this equation?

[Slipperychicken]

Hmm, why is factotum/chemelon considered an okay build then?

It's decent at a number of different things (spells, heals, utility, skills), but not fantastic at any of them. Like Eldariel said, Factotum gives passive abilities, while Chameleon gives more active ones. Also, it has good hp, proficiencies, and BAB.

Factotum20 is a perfectly valid, strong build (arcane spells, great skills, heals, Cunning Surge, capstone), but doesn't quite do everything.

[RFLS]

I'd suggest Factotum/Chameleon, actually. You could dip Warblade at some point for some extra martial prowess.

[CyberThread]

What sort of items would I want to look into, if I went Factotum 5/ Chemelon 4/ warblade 1?

[Ardantis]

In an unusual way, this has already been done.

See Person Man's Haberdash the Masked:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88633

[Flickerdart]

What sort of items would I want to look into, if I went Factotum 5/ Chemelon 4/ warblade 1?
Why are you so hung up on Chameleon? What are you getting from it that's worth missing out on extra standard actions?

[CyberThread]

Am not sure, how combat based the game will be, and I am planning on being the skill monkey, not the mega nuke, so the access to spells, seems to be a better, options, and I can save my inspiration points, for other actions.

[TaiLiu]

Am not sure, how combat based the game will be, and I am planning on being the skill monkey, not the mega nuke, so the access to spells, seems to be a better, options, and I can save my inspiration points, for other actions.
Your inspiration points refresh at the start of each encounter. They are effectively unlimited.

[CyberThread]

Aye I know this, I mean as in am unsure if this will be a mostly social focused adventure, or a combat based adventure, so chemelon seems to be of a better value, then an extra standard move.

[Flickerdart]

Am not sure, how combat based the game will be, and I am planning on being the skill monkey, not the mega nuke, so the access to spells, seems to be a better, options, and I can save my inspiration points, for other actions.
Between having all skills as class skills, a laser-sharp Intelligence focus, and +level to skills basically 1/day/skill, Factotums are the single best skill monkey in the game. By level 10, if you want to use 3rd level spells, just UMD a wand.

[Rejusu]

If you think the game might have a social bent then look into the Changeling rogue substitution level as a first level dip. You lose trap finding but gain an awesome class feature for social interactions. You also get a boat load of skill points. Then I'd advise going into Factotum, it really is the best "do everything" chassis.

[herculesftw]

If you really want to be everything, go telepath, thrall herd, and true mind switch a mind flayer. Afterwards level up illithid savant until you can finally get a super natural ability from a brain you eat. Find an etheral doppelganger and eat its brain. Take the Assume identity ability. Boom, you can be ANYTHING

[ahenobarbi]

Beguiler 5/ Mind Bender 1/ Mage of the Arcane Order 4 ?

Spontaneous casting from beguiler list, spontaneous casting from Sorcerer/Wizard list (at double action & slot cost) and telepathy? If you are human with Able Learner feat (Races of Destiny... you can Google the feat but forum rules say I can't link it :smallmad:) you can easily max your social skills.

[Seharvepernfan]

Factotum would be perfect for your game. Give yourself a decent cha score (and get a circlet of persuasion - it also adds to turn undead checks), and put good scores in str and dex, and max your int. See if your DM will let you load up on Font of Inspiration.

[gorfnab]

Factotum Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2720.0)
Chameleon Handbook (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=135.0)
Psychic Rogue Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=234327)

Another option would be Bard (Bard (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=8686) Handbooks (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=9830)). Unfortunately, Bards do not have trap finding, so you would have to dip for it. A Bard can fill many roles in a party. They are also great at buffing a party.

[Slipperychicken]

Another option would be Bard (Bard (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=8686) Handbooks (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=9830)). Unfortunately, Bards do not have trap finding, so you would have to dip for it. A Bard can fill many roles in a party. They are also great at buffing a party.

Isn't there an ACF to give them Trapfinding?

[gorfnab]

Isn't there an ACF to give them Trapfinding?
Maybe from a third party, but none listed here unless they missed one when creating this handbook: Alternate Class Features (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=7908)

Bardic Knack (PHB 2, p 35): Lose bardic knowledge, gain the ability to use half your class level in place of skill ranks.

Bardic Sage (UA, p 49): Adds additional spells and bonus to knowledge in exchange for reduced Bardic music abilities.

Divine Bards (UA, p 50): Wisdom used to determine if you can cast a spell, Charisma used for all other factors, some spells added to the the bard spell list.

Drow Bard (DU, p 57): Gain poison use, lose bardic knowledge and 1 bardic music use/day.

Eberron Bard (ECS, p 34): Trade new bardic music for feats.

Gnome Bard Substitution Levels (RS, p 147):
1st level: Gnome Cantrips (swap some 0-level spells), Counter Fear (replaces countersong)
3rd level: Inspire Defiance (resistance to mind-affecting), lose inspire competence
6th level: Phantasmal Song (fear-like song), lose suggestion
11th level: Secrets of Bardic Trickery, lose a 4th level spell known, get new spells

Half-Elf Bard Substitution Levels (RD, p 157):
1st level: Soothing voice, no countersong
6th level: Command, no suggesion
8th level: Secrets of the Diplomat (bonus spells known), lose 4th level spell known

Healing Hymn (CC, p 47): lose fascinate, boost natural healing and healing spells.

Hymn of Fortification (CC, p 47): lose inspire competence, use bardic music to generate protection from evil type effects.

Inspire Awe (DrM, p 13): Gain ability to inspire awe instead of courage.

Inspire Hatred (EoE, p 21): lose inspire greatness, gain inspire hatred

Inspire Turning (ECR, p 206): Replace Inspire Competence with the ability to boost an ally's ability to turn undead by spending a bardic music attempt they gain +2 levels on their turn check.

Loresong (DS, p 8): Give up bardic knowledge. Once per day (more at higher levels) add +4 bonus to an attack, save, or check roll.

Mimicking Song (DS, p 8): Give up countersong. Use bardic music to give allies a +2 bonus on move silently.

Nature Bard (UA, p 58): gain animal companion, nature sense, resist nature's lure, and wild empathy as a druid. Lose bardic knowledge, inspire courage, inspire competence, inspire greatness, and inspire heroics.

Planar Bard (PlH, p 29):
3rd level: Planar Inspiration (can use music to protect people from planar effects), lose inspire competence
6th level: Planar Dissonance (can temporarily redirect portals to new locations), lose suggestion
12h level: Planar Discordance (can use bardic music as a precipitate breach spell), lose song of freedom

Repel Domination (ECR, p 206): Lose suggestion power. +2 bonus on saves vs mind affecting spells and abilities of the undead, if you succeed in the save they become shaken.

Savage Bard (UA, p 50): Must be chaotic, good fortitude and will save, poor reflex. Modified skill and spell list. Illiterate.

Spellbreaker Song (CM, p 35): Lose countersong, can use bardic music to disrupt casters, giving them 20% spell failure chance.

Spellscale Bard Substitution Levels (RDr, p 110):
1st level: Draconic Bardic Knowledge (bonus on bardic lore checks involving dragons)
3rd level: Inspire Arcana (music gives +1 caster levels), no inspire competence
6th level: Superior Suggestion (higher DC's with suggestion)

Undead Bardic Knowledge (ECR, p 206): Replace Bard Knowledge with specialized knowledge about the undead, works like normal bardic knowledge but with a +5 competence bonus.

[TuggyNE]

Isn't there an ACF to give them Trapfinding?

I know there's one for Rangers; is that what you're thinking of?

[CyberThread]

thank you for the feedback:)

[Slipperychicken]

I know there's one for Rangers; is that what you're thinking of?

I was thinking of the PF Bard archetype. Never mind.