Echoing Spell: Infinate Magic?

[Acanous]

Relevant Text:

Benefit: When you cast an echoing spell, it does not disappear entirely from memory, and you can cast it one additional time during that day. No effect that allows you to reprepare or recast a spell can affect the echoed spell.

If you prepare spells, this second casting does not require you to prepare it in another spell slot. If you spontaneously cast spells, this second casting does not expend another available spell slot.

Level Increase: +3 (an echoing spell uses up a spell slot three levels higher than the spell’s actual level.)


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Now, for a Sorceror or other spontanious caster, this is pretty simple. You cast the Echoing Spell, and the next time you cast the same spell, it doesn't use a slot.

For a Prepared caster, you do not have to prepare it in another slot.
Meaning you keep it in the same slot.
So it's still got Echoing Spell on it.

Is this interpretation correct?

[Shadowknight12]

"No effect that allows you to reprepare or recast a spell can affect the echoed spell."

I'd argue that the Echoing Spell feat falls under that regard. Therefore, echoed spells cannot be affected by the Echoing Spell feat.

[Acanous]

Hm. In that case, if Echoing Spell counts as an effect that allows you to reprepare, and you don't expend the slot, does that mean you could cast say, Echoing Magic Missile, then use the slot for Maximized Magic Missile?

[Shadowknight12]

Hm. In that case, if Echoing Spell counts as an effect that allows you to reprepare, and you don't expend the slot, does that mean you could cast say, Echoing Magic Missile, then use the slot for Maximized Magic Missile?

No. You have a plain old Magic Missile (unless you originally used metamagic-reducing effects to prepare an Empowered, Maximised, Echoing Magic Missile, in which case you are left with an Empowered, Maximised Magic Missile).

[Acanous]

If that's the case though, it isn't really allowing you to reprepare, so shouldn't be exempting itself.

[Shadowknight12]

It's still an echoed spell, so it cannot be affected by the Echoing Spell feat. The echoed spell doesn't give you a spell slot back, it gives you a one-time casting of that specific spell. If you're a spontaneous caster, you can't use the echoed spell to cast another spell in its place, you're stuck with that.

[KillianHawkeye]

If that's the case though, it isn't really allowing you to reprepare, so shouldn't be exempting itself.

It would still be affected under the recast clause because you are recasting the same spell you originally cast.

[Humble Master]

When you cast the Echoed spell you get back a copy of the spell. However the 'echoing' effect can activate only once for every preparing of an Echoed spell.

For spontaneous casting it simply does not count towards your number of spells per day that one time you cast it.

[Scow2]

If that's the case though, it isn't really allowing you to reprepare, so shouldn't be exempting itself.

In addition to what others say (The echoed spell prevents itself from being re-echoed), it's explicitly permitted to prepare a lower-level spell in a higher-level spell slot. You just don't get any benefit from doing so without the "Heighten Spell" metamagic feat.

[Fouredged Sword]

It could be used with the residual metamagic tactical feat to double your spell slots for a particular spell. You can prepard and cast an echoing spell and then use non-modified spell slots to cast more echoing spells as long as they are cast on the following round and the same spell as you first cast. It would be good for a cool spell you wanted to quicken.

Echoing magic missile, followed by a quickened magic missile that now has echoing applied to it. At any point in the day you could cast both a second time.

Hardly an optimal use, but still.

Compare in worth to a pearl of power though. Recast a spell without spending a higher slot. Basically a once per day metamagic rod of echoing. Generally any feat you can buy with GP is a waste of a feat slot.

[Hecuba]

Is this interpretation correct?

Unless you are looking at a different version of the feat that I am, this is actually handled explicitly in the rules for Echoing spell.

For each casting past the first, you caster level for the spell is reduced by 4. You can recast the spell until this would place you at a caster level that would not be sufficient to cast the original spell.

The rules for the feat are in Secrets of Xen'drik on page 134

[Scow2]

Unless you are looking at a different version of the feat that I am, this is actually handled explicitly in the rules for Echoing spell.

For each casting past the first, you caster level for the spell is reduced by 4. You can recast the spell until this would place you at a caster level that would not be sufficient to cast the original spell.

The rules for the feat are in Secrets of Xen'drik on page 134
He seems to be looking at the Pathfinder version of the feat, not 3.5.

The 3.5 version seems actually viable, with mechanics that match the name. This is just a 'wat'.

Also, to answer the already-answered question: The echo'd casting of the spell isn't cast from ANY spell slot, so no, it doesn't 'still' have Echo.