Sword and Board feats--because knights used sword and shield for a reason. [PEACH]

[genericwit]

So basically the idea behind these two feats are that A) shields as a static AC bonus seem kind of lame and B) using a sword and shield shouldn't completely obliterate your damage potential. As such, these may seem a little overpowered compared to available feats, but, c'mon, melee deserves nice things, too. Also note: Shield Bash is a horrible feat, and Thundering Shield is intended to replace the feat.

Interposing Shield
You have practiced using your shield to stop attacks from enemies, and it is no longer just another chunk of armor strapped to your arm.
Prerequisites: Proficiency light shields, heavy shields, or tower shields, BAB +1
Benefit: When using a shield in which you are proficient, you gain the benefits of Improved Uncanny Dodge. Alternatively, you may give up this ability to attempt to block two melee attacks, plus one additional melee attack for every 5 points by which your base attack bonus exceeds 6, to a maximum of 4 blocks when your base attack bonus is 16. You may also give up one melee block attempt to attempt to block two ranged attacks; this may be done so long as you have melee block attempts remaining.
To attempt to block an attack, you may roll 1d20 plus the sum of your base attack bonus, your Dexterity bonus, and the shield's enhancement bonus (if any); if your result equals or exceeds the attack roll, the attack is negated.
Example: A sixth level fighter can negate two melee attacks, four ranged attacks, or one melee attack and two ranged attacks per round.
Special: You cannot block an attack when flat-footed. If you block an attack from an opponent that flanks you, you may not block attacks from an opponent with whom he flanks you until the start of your next turn. If you lose your shield AC bonus due to making a shield bash attacks, you lose the benefits of this feat as well for the duration.

Stalwart Sword
You have refined your striking technique and know that the strength of your blows come not from your sword arm, but from the compound movements of your body.
Prerequisites: BAB +6, Interposing Shield
Benefits: When attack with a one-handed melee weapon and holding a shield in the other, you may add 1.5 X Str bonus to melee damage rolls. Additionally, when you make a power attack, you may add 2 extra points to damage for every 1 point of attack sacrificed.
Special: Stalwart Sword cannot be used in conjunction with other feats that increase the bonus to damage from Power Attack, such as Leap Attack or Combat Brute.
Special: Creatures with more than two arms gain no extra benefit from this feat when wielding a weapon in more than one hand.

Shieldguard
Your ability to ward off blows reaches a level such that you can afford extra protection to your allies, as well.
Prerequisite: BAB +4, Interposing Shield
Benefit: When you are equipped with a shield with which you are proficient, allies adjacent to you gain a shield bonus to AC equal to the shield bonus afforded by your currently equipped shield, up to a maximum of 1 quarter of your BAB rounded down. In addition, may attempt to block attacks that target allies adjacent to you as if they had targeted you.

Spellbreaker
Your shield is now capable of stopping magical and other bizarre assaults.
Prerequisite: BAB +12, Interposing Shield
Benefit: When equipped with a shield with which you are proficient that has a magical enhancement bonus of at least +1, you add your shield bonus to your touch AC. In addition, when wielding such a shield you can attempt to block touch attacks (including spells which require a touch or ranged attack roll) just as you would block other attacks. Area-of-effect spells and breath attacks that allow a reflex save (such as a fireball or a red dragon's breath) can also be blocked (rolling against the save DC rather than the attacker's attack roll), but doing so counts as two melee block attempts.

Thundering Shield [WIP]
While you know that the best defense is an inpenetrable defense, you have learned to use that same defense as a powerful offensive weapon.
Prerequisite: BAB +8, Interposing Shield, Two Weapon Fighting
Benefit: When you make a shield bash with a shield with which you are proficient, other than a tower shield, it is considered a light weapon for the purpose of determining penalties to attack. Furthermore, you retain your shield bonus to AC when making a shield bash. In addition, this feat allows you to use your shield to great effect in a number of situations, and grants the wielder the ability to use the following maneuvers:
Thunderclap You have learned to make a single, overwhelming shield bash against your opponents. When you are equipped with a shield in which you are proficient and only make one single shield bash in a round (regardless of however many attacks you make with your mainhanded weapon, or however many attacks you may be able to make with your shield), the opponent must make a Fortitude save against a DC equal to 10 + 1/2 your BAB + your Strength modifier or be dazed for one round. If you confirm a critical hit, the opponent must save against being stunned for one round, instead, and is still dazed for one round even if they make the save. Opponents more than one size category larger than you are not effected by this maneuver.
Rolling Thunder Anyone who tries to stand in your way will be bowled over by your thunderous might. When you are equipped with a shield in which you are proficient and initiate a bullrush at the end of a charge, you may immediately make a shield bash before initiating the bull rush. If the attack hits, it deals double damage, and you gain +4 on your opposed strength check made to bullrush your opponent.

[TuggyNE]

Hmm, these feats don't seem too crazy. Note, though, that free actions can only be taken on your own turn by default, so Interposing Shield does nothing but prevent AoOs as written.

Also, the example for Interposing Shield is off a bit, since you can actually make 4 block attempts against ranged attacks as a BAB +6 character.

Finally, "ranged attacks" includes ranged touch attacks; shouldn't there be a penalty to blocking those? (For example, -10 or -15.)

[paddyfool]

On Interposing shield:
- Opposed attack rolls to block attacks have a downside, in that they tend to slow down the action
- The feat should specify that you need to be equipped with a shield with which you are proficient
- The feat should specify whether it works while flat-footed etc. (it really shouldn't)
- I'd be tempted to suggest that it should only grant half the amount of block points it does. Given that you get it at 6, you could still use it to block two ranged attack or one melee per round when you first get it; and it would still increase linearly in power.
- I'd also be tempted to suggest that you should be able to spend your block points to block attacks on adjacent allies (both fitting the actual uses of a shield, and a mechanical positive, as it gives opponents a reason to target the S&B-wielding tank). Getting to be quite a long feat, though...

On stalwart shield:
- On first look, I rather like it. You should be able to make longer, more powerful swings if you can safely hold off an opponent with a shield in the other hand. However, it does rather negate the benefits of TWF, making S&B outright better with just a two-feat tax. Maybe make the power attack bonus only 1.5x?
- How would this interact with a combatant that has weapons in more than 2 arms, e.g. a Marilith?

Also, I don't know if there's a feat for this in 3.5 already, but shields really should make bullrushing easier. I'd almost go so far as to say that being equipped with a heavy shield or tower shield with which you're proficient grants the bonuses of the improved bull rush feat for free... shield-barging is a really commonplace tactic for a reason.

[Durazno]

Maybe you could let Interposing Shield work flatfooted if you spend twice (or more) as many block points.

Alternatively, I suppose "you can block even when you're flatfooted if you accept X penalty" could be the next feat in a chain.

[genericwit]

Hmm, these feats don't seem too crazy. Note, though, that free actions can only be taken on your own turn by default, so Interposing Shield does nothing but prevent AoOs as written.

Also, the example for Interposing Shield is off a bit, since you can actually make 4 block attempts against ranged attacks as a BAB +6 character.

Finally, "ranged attacks" includes ranged touch attacks; shouldn't there be a penalty to blocking those? (For example, -10 or -15.)

I kind of want to add a feat later in the chain that allows you to block touch and magical attacks, as well, so I'd probably loop this in to that feat.

Also, removed the action type to make it usable kind of in an Attack of Opportunity kind of way.

[genericwit]

On Interposing shield:
- Opposed attack rolls to block attacks have a downside, in that they tend to slow down the action
- The feat should specify that you need to be equipped with a shield with which you are proficient
- The feat should specify whether it works while flat-footed etc. (it really shouldn't)
- I'd be tempted to suggest that it should only grant half the amount of block points it does. Given that you get it at 6, you could still use it to block two ranged attack or one melee per round when you first get it; and it would still increase linearly in power.
- I'd also be tempted to suggest that you should be able to spend your block points to block attacks on adjacent allies (both fitting the actual uses of a shield, and a mechanical positive, as it gives opponents a reason to target the S&B-wielding tank). Getting to be quite a long feat, though...

On stalwart shield:
- On first look, I rather like it. You should be able to make longer, more powerful swings if you can safely hold off an opponent with a shield in the other hand. However, it does rather negate the benefits of TWF, making S&B outright better with just a two-feat tax. Maybe make the power attack bonus only 1.5x?
- How would this interact with a combatant that has weapons in more than 2 arms, e.g. a Marilith?

Also, I don't know if there's a feat for this in 3.5 already, but shields really should make bullrushing easier. I'd almost go so far as to say that being equipped with a heavy shield or tower shield with which you're proficient grants the bonuses of the improved bull rush feat for free... shield-barging is a really commonplace tactic for a reason.

For Interposing shield, I want to add a feat that allows you to confer your AC bonus to allies and to also be able to intercept adjacent attacks. As for block points, I think I evened it out a bit by saying you can only apply this to one adjacent enemy if flanked--it kind of doesn't make sense that you would be able to block enemies from two sides with one shield without making yourself vulnerable. Also fixed some of the other concerns.

Hmm, I guess I should think about how Stalwart Sword would interact with a Marilith/extra-armed character--I'll have to think about it. That said, I think it *should* be better than TWF, 'cuz TWF in the real world is generally pretty clumsy, and in the DND world should be left to those with Sudden Strike/Sneak Attack/Skirmish damage.

[Yakk]

For touch attacks, just say that the target of the attack becomes the shield, and then grant it at the first feat.

So you get to block the touch attack, which if it does damage can blow your shield up. If it does something else (like drains strength), well, your shield is immune to that.

[paddyfool]

For Interposing shield, I want to add a feat that allows you to confer your AC bonus to allies and to also be able to intercept adjacent attacks. As for block points, I think I evened it out a bit by saying you can only apply this to one adjacent enemy if flanked--it kind of doesn't make sense that you would be able to block enemies from two sides with one shield without making yourself vulnerable. Also fixed some of the other concerns.

OK, that seems to work.


That said, I think it *should* be better than TWF, 'cuz TWF in the real world is generally pretty clumsy, and in the DND world should be left to those with Sudden Strike/Sneak Attack/Skirmish damage.

Doh! I meant THF. Specifically, my concern was that this allowed S&Bs to duplicate all the perks of THF while retaining all the perks of S&B and gaining some new ones... but since you've now ruled out combos with Leap Attack and Combat Brute, that concern is addressed.

Not sure why you've added the Improved Uncanny Dodge bit, though... they're already getting lots of cool stuff from this feat.


Shieldguard

Nice execution.


Spellbreaker & Thundering Shield

Both of these are on the high end of powerful, and I wouldn't advocate adding anything else to Thundering Shield.

One general (mild) concern: This is building into quite a long feat tree, especially given that it starts with a feat with a BAB +6 prerequisite. I'm starting to think that that prerequisite, and by extension those of Stalwart Shield and Shieldguard, may be a little high. If the prereqs for Interposing Shield, Shieldguard and Stalwart Shield were instead maybe +1 BAB, +4 BAB and +6 BAB respectively, would that really break anything, especially given that characters with lower BABs get less out of Interposing Shield and Shieldguard anyway?

[genericwit]

One general (mild) concern: This is building into quite a long feat tree, especially given that it starts with a feat with a BAB +6 prerequisite. I'm starting to think that that prerequisite, and by extension those of Stalwart Shield and Shieldguard, may be a little high. If the prereqs for Interposing Shield, Shieldguard and Stalwart Shield were instead maybe +1 BAB, +4 BAB and +6 BAB respectively, would that really break anything, especially given that characters with lower BABs get less out of Interposing Shield and Shieldguard anyway?

Yeah, I think I'm gonna take the Uncanny Dodge bit off. As for reducing the BAB prerequisites, I think that might be a good idea, but I think It'd probably be good to keep Spellbreaker pretty high--you're right, it is pretty high (though it doesn't negate many save or loses or save or die spells, pretty much just damaging ones/rays). I also slightly reduced Thundering Shield, as it does have some limitations (i.e. the shield bash daze doesn't work against huge or larger opponents for a Medium sized character).

[Yitzi]

The basic goal is definitely a good one. As for the specifics (you did say PEACH):


Interposing Shield
You have practiced using your shield to stop attacks from enemies, and it is no longer just another chunk of armor strapped to your arm.
Prerequisites: Proficiency light shields, heavy shields, or tower shields, BAB +6
Benefit: When equipped with a shield in which you are proficient, you gain two "block" points per attack granted by base attack bonus (do not include extra attacks granted due to flurry of blows, two weapon fighting, whirling frenzy, haste, or any ability that grants extra attacks) per round. You may use 1 block point at any time to attempt to negate a ranged attack, and 2 block points to negate a melee attack. To negate an attack, you may make an opposed attack role using their BAB + the shield's enhancement bonus + your Dexterity bonus; if you win the opposed attack role, the attack is negated. These blocks are all made at the your full base attack bonus. You cannot block an attack when flat-footed.
Special: If you are currently flanked, you can only block attacks from one opponent. Alternatively, you can give up your ability to block attacks altogether to gain the benefits of Improved Uncanny dodge.

I like the idea, but "block points" is a bit awkward. How about the following rephrasing (essentially the same mechanics*):

*The differences (which you may reject if you choose) are:
-Epic increases to BAB now give extra blocks up to a maximum of 4, even though it won't give extra attacks. So a monk level 22 would get 4 blocks, even though he only gets 3 attacks from BAB.
-If you tie the attack roll, you block it rather than using the usual (and more complicated) rules for opposed rolls.
-Shield bashes lose you the Improved Uncanny Dodge effect as well, but if you have Improved Shield Bash they don't make you lose anything.

So here's the revised version:

You have practiced using your shield to stop attacks from enemies, and it is no longer just another chunk of armor strapped to your arm.
Prerequisites: Shield Proficiency, Base attack bonus +6
Benefit: When using a shield in which you are proficient, you gain the benefits of Improved Uncanny Dodge. Alternatively, you may give up this ability to attempt to block two melee attacks, plus one additional melee attack for every 5 points by which your base attack bonus exceeds 6, to a maximum of 4 blocks when your base attack bonus is 16. You may also give up one melee block attempt to attempt to block two ranged attacks; this may be done so long as you have melee block attempts remaining.
To attempt to block an attack, you may roll 1d20 plus the sum of your base attack bonus, your Dexterity bonus, and the shield's enhancement bonus (if any); if your result equals or exceeds the attack roll, the attack is negated.

Special: You cannot block an attack when flat-footed. If you block an attack from an opponent that flanks you, you may not block attacks from an opponent with whom he flanks you until the start of your next turn. If you lose your shield AC bonus due to making a shield bash attacks, you lose the benefits of this feat as well for the duration.


Stalwart Sword
You have refined your striking technique and know that the strength of your blows come not from your sword arm, but from the compound movements of your body.
Prerequisites: BAB +10, Interposing Shield
Benefits: When attack with a one-handed melee weapon and holding a shield in the other, you may add 1.5 X Str bonus to melee damage rolls. Additionally, when you make a power attack, you may add 2 extra points to damage for every 1 point of attack sacrificed.
Special: Stalwart Sword cannot be used in conjunction with other feats that increase the bonus to damage from Power Attack, such as Leap Attack or Combat Brute.
Special: Creatures with more than two arms gain no extra benefit from this feat when wielding a weapon in more than one hand.

Other than the bolded spelling correction, looks workable, though I don't really like the style. Have you considered making it count as a two-handed weapon whenever it's beneficial to you, including things like disarm attempts?


Shieldguard
Your ability to ward off blows reaches a level such that you can afford extra protection to your allies, as well.
Prerequisite: BAB +8, Interposing Shield
Benefit: When you are equipped with a shield with which you are proficient, your adjacent allies gain a shield bonus to AC equal to the shield bonus afforded by your currently equipped shield, up to a maximum of 1 quarter of your BAB rounded down. In addition, you can spend block points to attempt to negate melee and ranged attacks that target your adjacent allies.

Looks good, though "your adjacent allies" is a bit awkward and should probably be changed to "allies adjacent to you"; if using my suggested change in the wording of Interposing Shield, that last sentence should be changed to "In addition, you can attempt to block melee and ranged attacks that target allies adjacent to you as though they had targeted you."


Spellbreaker
Your shield is now capable of stopping magical and other bizarre assaults.
Prerequisite: BAB +12, Interposing Shield
Benefit: When equipped with a shield with which you are proficient that has a magical enhancement bonus of at least +1, you can use block points to negate spells which require a touch or ranged attack roll, those which have an area effect requiring a reflex save (such as a fireball or polar ray), breath effects, and nonmagical touch effects (such as acid spittle). When blocking the effects of an area spell or other spell that doesn't require an attack roll, the opposed attack roll is instead made against the Save DC. However, blocking such an effect is more difficult than negating the swing of a sword, and as such negating such an effect costs 4 block poings. Additionally, you add your shield bonus to your touch AC.

Again, the idea is good; for the rephrasing (which now does not allow you to block breath weapons that don't allow a reflex save), I'd use:

Benefit: When equipped with a shield with which you are proficient that has a magical enhancement bonus of at least +1, you add your shield bonus to your touch AC. In addition, when wielding such a shield you can attempt to block touch attacks (including spells which require a touch or ranged attack roll) just as you would block other attacks. Area-of-effect spells and breath attacks that allow a reflex save (such as a fireball or a red dragon's breath) can also be blocked (rolling against the save DC rather than the attacker's attack roll), but doing so counts as two melee block attempts.


Thundering Shield [WIP]
While you know that the best defense is an inpenetrable defense, you have learned to use that same defense as a powerful offensive weapon.
Prerequisite: Bab +12, Interposing Shield, Two Weapon Fighting
Benefit: When you make a shield bash wiht a shield, it is considered a light weapon for the purpose of determining penalties to attack. Furthermore, you retain your shield bonus to AC when making a shield bash. In addition, this feat allows you to use your shield to great effect in a number of situations, and grants the wielder the ability to use the following maneuvers:
Thunderclap You have learned to make a single, overwhelming shield bash against your opponents. When you are equipped with a shield in which you are proficient and only make one single shield bash in a round (regardless of however many attacks you make with your mainhanded weapon, or however many attacks you may be able to make with your shield), the opponent must make a Fortitude save against a DC equal to 10 + 1/2 your BAB + your Strength modifier or be dazed for one round. If you confirm a critical hit, the opponent must save against being stunned for one round, instead, and is still dazed for one round even if they make the save. Opponents more than one size category larger than you are not effected by this maneuver.
Rolling Thunder Anyone who tries to stand in your way will be bowled over by your thunderous might. When you are equipped with a shield in which you are proficient and initiate a bullrush at the end of a charge, you may immediately make a shield bash before initiating the bull rush. If the attack hits, it deals double damage, and you gain +4 on your opposed strength check made to bullrush your opponent.
??? Trying to think whether or not there's another maneuver worth adding that doesn't completely break this feat.

Remove the "retain AC bonus" bit; it'll mean that someone who wants to shield bash and takes Improved Shield Bash before qualifying for this will feel bad about having what's now a useless feat. Consider making Improved Shield Bash a prerequisite.

As for another maneuver: Maybe whenever you successfully block a melee attack (using Interposing Shield), you get a free sunder attack with your shield against the blocked weapon (or a free attack against the attacker if it used a natural weapon), with a +10 bonus.

[genericwit]

Remove the "retain AC bonus" bit; it'll mean that someone who wants to shield bash and takes Improved Shield Bash before qualifying for this will feel bad about having what's now a useless feat. Consider making Improved Shield Bash a prerequisite.

I ended up using a few of your reformattings, which were better, and gave up the "block points" mechanic for a less clunky one.

As for Stalwart Sword, the idea is that power doesn't come from your arms, but from hips and legs (anyone who's ever taken a martial art or boxed can tell you that); that said, gripping a weapon is easier with two hands, so I'm not sure that having all the two handed weapon benefits would make sense. And if you're worried about being disarmed, you can always snag a locked gauntlet.

As for the Shield Bash thing, I'm kind of hoping that this feat chain will do away with the need for the Improved Shield Bash feat. As it is, it makes little sense, because shields are basically just another chunk of armor in 3.5, so who cares if you just used it to bash someone?

[Yitzi]

As for Stalwart Sword, the idea is that power doesn't come from your arms, but from hips and legs (anyone who's ever taken a martial art or boxed can tell you that); that said, gripping a weapon is easier with two hands, so I'm not sure that having all the two handed weapon benefits would make sense. And if you're worried about being disarmed, you can always snag a locked gauntlet.

I get that; it just seems to me that shield-users should have less damage potential than THFers, just have more defense to make up for it.


As for the Shield Bash thing, I'm kind of hoping that this feat chain will do away with the need for the Improved Shield Bash feat. As it is, it makes little sense, because shields are basically just another chunk of armor in 3.5, so who cares if you just used it to bash someone?

If they'd mean removing Improved Shield Bash, you should probably say so explicitly.

[genericwit]

I get that; it just seems to me that shield-users should have less damage potential than THFers, just have more defense to make up for it.



If they'd mean removing Improved Shield Bash, you should probably say so explicitly.

Well, they will have less damage potential: two feats were spent gaining that bonus that could have been spent on, Power Attack and Leap Attack or Power Attack and Improved Sunder (and Combat Brute), not to mention the fact that none of those feats confer their bonuses with this feat tree.

I'll mention that about shield bash in the upper blurb.