Help! We're stuck on the postive energy plane, and we can't breathe!

[Fates]

Okay, so a group I'm in (8th level, 1000 exp from 9th) barely managed to escape a massive fire on our home plane by putting a bag of holding in a portable hole and fleeing to the astral plane. We then entered the first portal we could find, which ended up to be a one-way portal to the positive energy plane.

You can imagine the chaos that ensued around the table. The positive energy plane is the single most dangerous plane there is- Hell and the negative energy plane have nothing on it. Luckily, our DM rolled that it was one of the few patches of the minor-positive-dominant persuasion. Still, we're veritably stuck on a small land mass amidst a roiling sea of deadly positive energy, with no apparent way to get out.

Our group consists of:
-Elf Dread Necromancer with a small legion of undead (he's very scared)
-Centaur (modified to be LA +0) Sorcerer, who focuses on combat magic, enchantment, and downright wacky spells (IE Evard's Menacing Tentacles and Handfang) which aren't really all that useful.
-Human Psion (Telepath), who for some reason didn't choose psychic reformation and has no plane-shifting powers at present.
-Pixie UMD Warlock, without any magic items that are remotely useful to us right now or the imbue item class feature
-Wood Elf Ranger/Scout, archery-focused
-Me, the Modified Lizardfolk Hexblade/Blackguard (Weak, I know. I was trying to go at the same pace as the rest of the group, and my old character was too powerful in comparison; Blackguard house-ruled to progess in hexblade spells instead of getting its own spells). I do have Craft Wondrous Item and Arms/Armor, as well as practiced spellcaster, but aside from that I'm mostly just a power attack/intimidate creature.

Now, given that, can anyone think of any way we can get out?

All that's basically been solved. The more pressing issue is that we apparently are not actually able to breathe on the PEP. Any way to get access to air really quickly, considering our utter lack of spells, magic items, or abilities that allow us to breath?

[Fates]

Oh, any by the way, nearly any material is allowed. Our DM makes frequent use of obscure splatbooks and DragMag.

[Morcleon]

Well, you're not in much immediate danger... :smalltongue:

You're only 1000 xp away from salvation. What you want to do is to go out into the major dominant places, dealing damage to yourselves every so often to avoid death. You should deal at least 5 damage per hit, preferably more. Make sure that you're never down less than 10 HP. Go find a random encounter or two until you level up. Have your psion take plane shift as one of his power. Plane shift back to the Prime Material. :smallsmile:

You should definitely take the undead with you. They're immune to the death by too much HP thing. :smallwink:

[Fates]

Well, you're not in much immediate danger... :smalltongue:

You're only 1000 xp away from salvation. What you want to do is to go out into the major dominant places, dealing damage to yourselves every so often to avoid death. You should deal at least 5 damage per hit, preferably more. Make sure that you're never down less than 10 HP. Go find a random encounter or two until you level up. Have your psion take plane shift as one of his power. Plane shift back to the Prime Material. :smallsmile:

You should definitely take the undead with you. They're immune to the death by too much HP thing. :smallwink:

Heh, it does seem very odd that undead are the safest on the PEP.

Yeah, I was considering this. It's a tad unrealistic (unless we got a successful Knowledge (planes) check, we probably wouldn't know to do it until someone had exploded), but then again, any alternatives would probably be just as unlikely for our characters to do.

I'll put this as my last resort. Any other suggestions, peeps?

[NeoPhoenix0]

You should definitely take the undead with you. They're immune to the death by too much HP thing. :smallwink:

they are perfectly capable of destruction from to much damage and that is what will happen. positive energy kills undead it doesn't heal.

[Chaosvii7]

If someone is willing to make the brave sacrifice, you could sacrifice one member of the party to the Psion(I mean, if you wanted to make them fight you could, but even so it's a Psion and he'll probably still win) to level him up to the next level, which would allow him to learn Psionic Plane Shift.

The only forseeable problem with this idea is:

1. One player would be eliminated, and have to roll up a new character.
2. The Psion would be anywhere from 200-1,200 XP(Based on approximate CR ratings and subsequent XP rewards) ahead of the entire party.
3. Your flight path is limited: depending on what plane you shift from, your choices of moving around the Great Wheel are limited, and it may in fact take multiple tries to get back to the Material Plane. Consult your DM for this.
4. If your DM doesn't condone ritualistic slaughter you may want to consider finding a more fun campaign to play in.

This is all really convoluted, but it's probably the most coherent plan as far as RAW is concerned.

[NeoPhoenix0]

3. Your flight path is limited: depending on what plane you shift from, your choices of moving around the Great Wheel are limited, and it may in fact take multiple tries to get back to the Material Plane. Consult your DM for this.

plane shift and plane shift, psionic travel using the astral plane so they can go from anywhere on the great wheel to anywhere on the great wheel.

edit: except for some demiplanes that are not technically in the astral sea.

edit2: and you can't go anywhere on the same plane.

[Chaosvii7]

plane shift and plane shift, psionic travel using the astral plane so they can go from anywhere on the great wheel to anywhere on the great wheel.

Wonderful! It just makes bloody murder that much more justifiable!

[NeoPhoenix0]

glad to help:smallbiggrin:

[JoshuaZ]

they are perfectly capable of destruction from to much damage and that is what will happen. positive energy kills undead it doesn't heal.

So you'd think that, but the way the positive energy plane works RAW is weird:



Major positive-dominant planes go even further. A creature on a major positive-dominant plane must make a DC 15 Fortitude save to avoid being blinded for 10 rounds by the brilliance of the surroundings. Simply being on the plane grants fast healing 5 as an extraordinary ability. In addition, those at full hit points gain 5 additional temporary hit points per round. These temporary hit points fade 1d20 rounds after the creature leaves the major positive-dominant plane. However, a creature must make a DC 20 Fortitude save each round that its temporary hit points exceed its normal hit point total. Failing the saving throw results in the creature exploding in a riot of energy, killing it.

That's a fortitude save that doesn't have any effect on objects. Which means undead are immune. And since it is granting fast healing rather than doing damage, they don't even take damage. So raw, in a positive dominant plane, an undead being's hit points just keep going up.

[Rijan_Sai]

they are perfectly capable of destruction from to much damage and that is what will happen. positive energy kills undead it doesn't heal.

By RACSD, absolutely. It is the "Positive Energy" plane, after all.

However, by RAW (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/planes.htm#positiveDominant):


Major positive-dominant planes go even further. A creature on a major positive-dominant plane must make a DC 15 Fortitude save to avoid being blinded for 10 rounds by the brilliance of the surroundings. Simply being on the plane grants fast healing 5 as an extraordinary ability. In addition, those at full hit points gain 5 additional temporary hit points per round. These temporary hit points fade 1d20 rounds after the creature leaves the major positive-dominant plane. However, a creature must make a DC 20 Fortitude save each round that its temporary hit points exceed its normal hit point total. Failing the saving throw results in the creature exploding in a riot of energy, killing it.
(emphasis added)

Being on a Major Positive dominant plane give Fast Healing (EX). Undead are perfectly capable of having Fast Healing, and while it would make sense, (see the RACSD, above,) there's nothing that states that the healing is in any way harmful to undead (as opposed to, say Cure Light Wounds (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/cureLightWounds.htm).)

Fortitude saves to avoid being blinded and/or blown up: Undead (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#undeadType) have "•Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless)." Because the blindness and deadness effects are neither harmless, nor effective against objects, undead are not affected.

Edit: Swordsage'd!

[NeoPhoenix0]

so it comes down to weather or not your dm is remotely sane.

[Douglas]

they are perfectly capable of destruction from to much damage and that is what will happen. positive energy kills undead it doesn't heal.
Actually, that is the result of a legion of specific rules rather than a general rule. The undead type (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#undeadType) says nothing about it, so (rules-wise) it is a result of each and every individual positive energy effect specifying that the specific effect in question has an opposite effect on undead. Except the grandaddy of them all, the positive energy plane itself, which has no special clause about undead at all (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/planes.htm#positiveDominant). Undead, therefore, receive fast healing 5 just like everything else when they visit the positive energy plane. Further, the explosion from overhealing allows a fortitude save and does not affect objects, and the undead type does specify immunity to that.

Yes, this is very obviously counter to RAI, but that is what the rules as actually written say. I would house rule it to damage myself, and expect the vast majority of DMs to do likewise, but that's RAW for you.

In conclusion: There is a completely and unambiguously correct argument that the undead are safe here going by RAW, but don't make plans depending on that. I would assume your DM will house rule it, and go from there.

Edit: aaand beaten to it. Twice.

[dascarletm]

Keep Stabbing yourself to keep you Temp HP at bay until you...... Until..... a DMPC comes and saves you.....

[Analytica]

I would make little spiked bracelets or what have you that means you gain sufficient damage each round to outweigh the healing, then go around making a ruckus until you either encounter someone who can shift you out, or someone you can kill to make your Psion level up.

[Boci]

so it comes down to weather or not your dm is remotely sane.

Not really. I interpret positive energy overkill as an affect that mimics cancer, so I have no problem with undead being immune to any harmful affects from it.

[Marnath]

Not really. I interpret positive energy overkill as an affect that mimics cancer, so I have no problem with undead being immune to any harmful affects from it.

Yes, really. You can harm them by casting cure spells which draw tiny amounts of positive energy, but on the plane of existence where that energy comes from, they're immune? That's simply bad writing on the level of drown healing and no actual written penalties for being dead.

[dascarletm]

Yes, really. You can harm them by casting cure spells which draw tiny amounts of positive energy, but on the plane of existence where that energy comes from, they're immune? That's simply bad writing on the level of drown healing and no actual written penalties for being dead.

That's why I like Rules as Intended/Implied.

[Boci]

Yes, really. You can harm them by casting cure spells which draw tiny amounts of positive energy, but on the plane of existence where that energy comes from, they're immune? That's simply bad writing on the level of drown healing and no actual written penalties for being dead.

Not really. Fireball will quickly deal more damage in its casting than a round of exposure on the elemental plane of fire, so I interpret that as part of the process of channeling the energy, be it fire or positive, concentrates it to a level not found even in the element's own plane.

[dascarletm]

In that analogy it would be more like if on the elemental plane of fire you took cold damage.

[Boci]

In that analogy it would be more like if on the elemental plane of fire you took cold damage.

No it wouldn't. In its RAW form positive energy simply promote a type of cell growth not seen naturally that bolsters physical resistence. Too much and you develop symtoms that mimic those of an agressive, fast spreading cancer, which undead are immune to.

When a cleric channels the positive energy its becomes a more direct essence of life. Hence actually healing, rather than just granting temp HP as the plane does. As a more refined essence of life, it now harms undead.

You don't have to like or use my theory, but I'd apreciate it if people stopped subtely or not so subtely insulting me for having it.

[Fates]

Great suggestions all around!

As it happens, we do have the weaver from the village we were once part of until we completely derailed the campaign (the DM was a good sport about it). He's fifth or sixth level, as I recall.

At any rate, as you may have guessed, our characters aren't exactly knights in shining armour. The psion and the pixie are the two neutral characters in a predominantly evil party.

The psion is also clinically insane. Her psicrystal is stuffed inside her childhood corn-husk doll, and it was her who started the fire that got us into this mess.

It may be difficult to get her to attack the weaver, but then again, the sorcerer's very persuasive.

Also, our DM would most likely rule that undead are indeed affected by the PEP.

[Big Fau]

No it wouldn't. In its RAW form positive energy simply promote a type of cell growth not seen naturally that bolsters physical resistence. Too much and you develop symtoms that mimic those of an agressive, fast spreading cancer, which undead are immune to.

When a cleric channels the positive energy its becomes a more direct essence of life. Hence actually healing, rather than just granting temp HP as the plane does. As a more refined essence of life, it now harms undead.

I view it as more of a water hose. The water (healing) is drawn from a much larger source (Positive Energy Plane), but put a special attachment (MAGIC!) on the hose (Cleric) and you have a weapon (Curing an Undead).

[dascarletm]

No it wouldn't. In its RAW form positive energy simply promote a type of cell growth not seen naturally that bolsters physical resistence. Too much and you develop symtoms that mimic those of an agressive, fast spreading cancer, which undead are immune to.

When a cleric channels the positive energy its becomes a more direct essence of life. Hence actually healing, rather than just granting temp HP as the plane does. As a more refined essence of life, it now harms undead.

You don't have to like or use my theory, but I'd apreciate it if people stopped subtely or not so subtely insulting me for having it.

Sorry, no insult was intended, just putting in my 2 cents.:smallbiggrin:

I suppose that is a way of thinking of it, but i don't remember cell biology written in any of the books:smalltongue:

[Boci]

Sorry, no insult was intended, just putting in my 2 cents.:smallbiggrin:

I suppose that is a way of thinking of it, but i don't remember cell biology written in any of the books:smalltongue:

I'm pretty sure there is a rule that stats unless otherwise noted, assume real world scinetific laws still hold true. Not that it would stop me if such a rule didn't exist.

[NeoPhoenix0]

i wouldn't use the fireball spell for comparison because that is a lot higher level.
if cure light wounds is to positive energy plane than burning hands would be to fire plane. there is less of a difference, and stronger areas on the positive energy plane are about the same as a cure light wounds cast every turn from a lv1 cleric.

[JoshuaZ]

No it wouldn't. In its RAW form positive energy simply promote a type of cell growth not seen naturally that bolsters physical resistence. Too much and you develop symtoms that mimic those of an agressive, fast spreading cancer, which undead are immune to.

This is a neat interpretation and saves the rules, but it definitely isn't RAW.



I'm pretty sure there is a rule that stats unless otherwise noted, assume real world scinetific laws still hold true. Not that it would stop me if such a rule didn't exist.

A) I don't know of any such rule B) It wouldn't make sense context because you just said that in the first quote that this wasn't "natural". The idea is neat and is a reasonable fluff explanation though.

[kardar233]

This is a neat interpretation and saves the rules, but it definitely isn't RAW.

It is, however, heavily implied in the Ragnorra section of Elder Evils.

[JoshuaZ]

It is, however, heavily implied in the Ragnorra section of Elder Evils.

Doesn't that refer to "corrupted positive energy" rather than positive energy?

[Boci]

i wouldn't use the fireball spell for comparison because that is a lot higher level.
if cure light wounds is to positive energy plane than burning hands would be to fire plane. there is less of a difference, and stronger areas on the positive energy plane are about the same as a cure light wounds cast every turn from a lv1 cleric.

Even so, there is still a difference between the nature of healing with the PEP and CXW spell.


This is a neat interpretation and saves the rules, but it definitely isn't RAW.

I'm of the "fluff doesn't count as RAW" crowd, so its different for me, but I get what your saying.


A) I don't know of any such rule B) It wouldn't make sense context because you just said that in the first quote that this wasn't "natural". The idea is neat and is a reasonable fluff explanation though.

Maybe the rule doesn't exist, but if does it would be relevant. Yes the cell growth isn't natural, but neither is the positive energy plane in the real world. The rule would however confirm the existence of cell biology and make the leap of what happens to cells on the PEP easier.

And I just noticed how this is dragging the thread off topic. Do you think this topic has enough potential for its own thread, or has it been discussed?

[JoshuaZ]

Eh, I think we've covered it pretty well.

Back on topic: what level is the dread necromancer? There are some undead which can plane shift I think , so if they are high enough level for access to create greater under they may have options.

[Douglas]

When a cleric channels the positive energy its becomes a more direct essence of life. Hence actually healing, rather than just granting temp HP as the plane does. As a more refined essence of life, it now harms undead.
The positive energy plane does, in fact, do actual healing. The temp hp thing only comes into play when healing is no longer possible because there's nothing left to heal (i.e. when you're at max hp).

[Boci]

Eh, I think we've covered it pretty well.

Back on topic: what level is the dread necromancer? There are some undead which can plane shift I think , so if they are high enough level for access to create greater under they may have options.

I assume level 8 like the rest of them, which means any plane shifting undead are unabailable, unless I'm missing one.


The positive energy plane does, in fact, do actual healing. The temp hp thing only comes into play when healing is no longer possible because there's nothing left to heal (i.e. when you're at max hp).

Oh yeah, my mistake. I don't think that would change my ruling though, just the fluff of the cancer healing.

[Fates]

Eh, I think we've covered it pretty well.

Back on topic: what level is the dread necromancer? There are some undead which can plane shift I think , so if they are high enough level for access to create greater under they may have options.

Only eighth level, sadly. He's got ten human skeletons, as well as a hill giant skeleton, a huge monstrous spider (exo)skeleton, and some giant, nameless, magnetic monster....skeleton. Once he hits twelfth level, he plans to start making things into bone creatures.

Yeah, our DreadNec isn't terribly creative. :smallannoyed:

[Boci]

I just realized: aren't the rules for the PEP a bit bare boned? How has your DM fleshed out the location? Where are you, whats is the landscape (I'm guessing sea wasn't literal), are there any structures or creatures in sight?

[Icewraith]

The positive energy plane does, in fact, do actual healing. The temp hp thing only comes into play when healing is no longer possible because there's nothing left to heal (i.e. when you're at max hp).

Simply having Fast Healing (Ex) doesn't mean that an undead's hit point total starts going down though, since there are undead that already have fast healing.

[Fates]

I just realized: aren't the rules for the PEP a bit bare boned? How has your DM fleshed out the location? Where are you, whats is the landscape (I'm guessing sea wasn't literal), are there any structures or creatures in sight?

The sea analogy was...more literal that I would like it to be. We are essentially on a small chunk of "safe" territory, and all around us is...usual deadly shinyness, I suppose? It apparently obscures vision much like water.

Our DM is a decent enough storyteller, but to be frank, he sucks at descriptions. :smallannoyed:

[Boci]

The sea analogy was...more literal that I would like it to be. We are essentially on a small chunk of "safe" territory, and all around us is...usual deadly shinyness, I suppose? It apparently obscures vision much like water.

Our DM is a decent enough storyteller, but to be frank, he sucks at descriptions. :smallannoyed:

Okay. And the terrain is, plainstuff (i.e. dirt by everything but name), or something else? Any vegitation? What the elevation like, is it flat, are there hills and valleys? How big is the safe zone?

If there are enough raw materials, you could try experimenting, seeing if something that blocks line of affect will block the deadly energy. It probably won't, but its worth a try and should be relativly safe.

Failing that, you probably need to travel. Clarify with the DM how relaible you can inflict statics amount of damage to yourself (say, can you CDG yourselves without requiering a fort save to avoid instant death), and then head out looking for help.

How many of you have a decent knowledge (the planes) modifier?

[Icewraith]

What's really ironic is that as soon as you overcome the challenge of getting stuck on the positive energy plane, you might be eligible for xp which would probably result in a level.

Although depending on the dm, even if you have enough xp to level you might not be able to do so until you get to a location where you can rest and whatnot.

If anyone has knowledge: the planes or something similar you could see if you remember the location of any well-known permanent portals out of the PEP or if there are any.

[NM020110]

If your DM awards roleplay xp, you could sit on your safe bubble and roleplay until you level up...

[NeoPhoenix0]

if it comes down to it it might be time to let the characters die or let a fight break out. if you kill all or most of the party it might be fun to create another party that has to adventure through the wake of whatever you characters have done.

i also posted the positive energy plane question in the raw forum where raw discussions belong.

[Fates]

Okay. And the terrain is, plainstuff (i.e. dirt by everything but name), or something else? Any vegitation? What the elevation like, is it flat, are there hills and valleys? How big is the safe zone?

If there are enough raw materials, you could try experimenting, seeing if something that blocks line of affect will block the deadly energy. It probably won't, but its worth a try and should be relativly safe.

Failing that, you probably need to travel. Clarify with the DM how relaible you can inflict statics amount of damage to yourself (say, can you CDG yourselves without requiering a fort save to avoid instant death), and then head out looking for help.

How many of you have a decent knowledge (the planes) modifier?


I'd like to know all those things myself. I'll inquire our DM about it soon enough.

I'm pretty sure the psion has a couple ranks in K(TP), and is throwing around 22 INT, so she'd be the one to know.

[Boci]

I'd like to know all those things myself. I'll inquire our DM about it soon enough.

I'm pretty sure the psion has a couple ranks in K(TP), and is throwing around 22 INT, so she'd be the one to know.

Okay, the the meanwhile you mentioned certain party members being evil and a bit crazy. Assuming you have a peaceful encounter, say some planar merchants willing to trade a scroll of planeshift or some of the local natives, how many PCs would be able to resist attacking them?

[Douglas]

Okay. And the terrain is, plainstuff (i.e. dirt by everything but name), or something else? Any vegitation? What the elevation like, is it flat, are there hills and valleys? How big is the safe zone?
What terrain? The PEP doesn't have terrain, it's just an endless volume filled with positive energy. Think outer space, but with air and positive energy instead of vacuum.

[NeoPhoenix0]

make sure to ask your dm his personal stance on undead in the PEP. he probably won't let them live but if he will put those skeletons to good use.

[Boci]

What terrain? The PEP doesn't have terrain, it's just an endless volume filled with positive energy. Think outer space, but with air and positive energy instead of vacuum.

Right you are. I skipped straight to the traits. Wait, what does "Subjective directional gravity" mean again?

[NeoPhoenix0]

the necromancer should also consider getting a ring of positive protection for his biggest undead too. it would have helped and makes undead a little harder to kill.

[NeoPhoenix0]

Right you are. I skipped straight to the traits. Wait, what does "Subjective directional gravity" mean again?

it means what ever direction is down to you at the moment is the direction of gravity. think walk on walls because it is the floor to you at the moment.

edit: while someone else is walking on the regular floor and another could be on the ceiling.

[Boci]

it means what ever direction is down to you at the moment is the direction of gravity. think walk on walls because it is the floor to you at the moment.

So every one has a limited flight via consiouss control over which direction gravity operates in?

[NeoPhoenix0]

So every one has a limited flight via consiouss control over which direction gravity operates in?

beware of deadly fall damage or racing off into the void uncontrolled.

[NeoPhoenix0]

i don't think its mental but the physical direction for you so that could be a problem.

[Darius Kane]

You're in quite a pickle, OP. But remember, no matter what, try to stay positive.

[dascarletm]

You're in quite a pickle, OP. But remember, no matter what, try to stay positive.

Buh dum tss.

[Cirrylius]

Not really. I interpret positive energy overkill as an affect that mimics cancer, so I have no problem with undead being immune to any harmful affects from it.

That's not a bad way to refluff it to shoehorn in the eggregious error in RAW that the developers accidentally copy-pasted in, but other fluff describes positive energy death as "the creature dissipates in a harmless burst of light and energy", "as her cells reached their capacity... exploding in a radiant burst of energy", and "immolates as if she were a small planet caught at the edge of a supernova". Somebody really screwed up somewhere.

Edit: In retrospect, "copy-paste" isn't what I meant. Duh.

Further Edit: You could save some of the skeletons (or characters who don't mind potential suffocation) if you have a Bag of Holding.

OOH, and ask your DM if you can get discounts to magic items (crafted later) or unusual spell components from the place. Soil samples, holy water exposed to the PEP, the remains of undead (or players) destroyed by positive energy overload. Obviously not RAW, but good material nonetheless.

[Failed Phantasm]

This is a bit of a long shot because it requires a kind and generous DM, but in this case, when you can't get to any other plane... you've got to bring the plane to you. There are rules for Planar Breaches in the Planar Handbook (page 151-3); a complete breach allows you to travel from your current location to the breaching plane.

Here's the three-step process:

Have your DM set a DC for a Knowledge (the planes) check to know about/learn how to create planar breaches. Hopefully your Psion (that's the one with ranks in that skill, right?) can beat that.
If your DM requires some action on your part to facilitate the breach (and this is where DM intervention happens, because I doubt a handful of casters with 4th level spells are capable of doing this on their own), get your Centaur to pick a point in space and start casting every spell with an energy descriptor (preferably [Air], [Cold], or [Electricity] - all associated with the Elemental Plane of Air, the safest of the five other Inner Planes). If your Psion (or anyone else, really) knows any powers with the same descriptor, they should be doing the same.
Ride out the onset of the Planar Breach. It's going to be windy if you can convince your DM to choose the Plane of Air. When it's open, hop through and hope you can negotiate a way back from one of the friendly(?) neighborhood outsiders.


Like I said, long shot. But if your DM wants the campaign to continue without turning it into "Survivor: Positive Energy Plane" (but you know, with actual fatalities), this is the a pretty reasonable way of getting out of the mess you're in.

EDIT: My first, and much saner, suggestion would have been to cast Find the Path to the nearest two-way color pool back to the Astral, but you don't have a Cleric capable of casting 6th level spells.

[Callin]

Well a nice little house rule my table has is God Calls. 1% per level if roll successfully your god hears your pleas and may act accordingly. You may also be given a quest to full fill upon the Gods behalf after he saves your bacon.

Talk the DM into that and good luck

[Fates]

This is a bit of a long shot because it requires a kind and generous DM, but in this case, when you can't get to any other plane... you've got to bring the plane to you. There are rules for Planar Breaches in the Planar Handbook (page 151-3); a complete breach allows you to travel from your current location to the breaching plane.

Here's the three-step process:

Have your DM set a DC for a Knowledge (the planes) check to know about/learn how to create planar breaches. Hopefully your Psion (that's the one with ranks in that skill, right?) can beat that.
If your DM requires some action on your part to facilitate the breach (and this is where DM intervention happens, because I doubt a handful of casters with 4th level spells are capable of doing this on their own), get your Centaur to pick a point in space and start casting every spell with an energy descriptor (preferably [Air], [Cold], or [Electricity] - all associated with the Elemental Plane of Air, the safest of the five other Inner Planes). If your Psion (or anyone else, really) knows any powers with the same descriptor, they should be doing the same.
Ride out the onset of the Planar Breach. It's going to be windy if you can convince your DM to choose the Plane of Air. When it's open, hop through and hope you can negotiate a way back from one of the friendly(?) neighborhood outsiders.



Like I said, long shot. But if your DM wants the campaign to continue without turning it into "Survivor: Positive Energy Plane" (but you know, with actual fatalities), this is the a pretty reasonable way of getting out of the mess you're in.

EDIT: My first, and much saner, suggestion would have been to cast Find the Path to the nearest two-way color pool back to the Astral, but you don't have a Cleric capable of casting 6th level spells.


This could certainly work. The sorcerer chose Defenestrating Sphere as his 4th-level spell, as well as shocking grasp, so that could certainly potentially make a breach. I think the psion has at least one energy-related power too. The elemental plane of air may not be safe, but at the very least we could get around and find a portal back to the astral plane without exploding or needing to constantly mutilate ourselves.

Where, praytell, are the rules for planar breaches?



Well a nice little house rule my table has is God Calls. 1% per level if roll successfully your god hears your pleas and may act accordingly. You may also be given a quest to full fill upon the Gods behalf after he saves your bacon.

Talk the DM into that and good luck

I'll bring up the possibility to my DM. My character and the DreadNec both worship the god of death quite devoutly, and the latter is sort of his "chosen one."




Further Edit: You could save some of the skeletons (or characters who don't mind potential suffocation) if you have a Bag of Holding.

OOH, and ask your DM if you can get discounts to magic items (crafted later) or unusual spell components from the place. Soil samples, holy water exposed to the PEP, the remains of undead (or players) destroyed by positive energy overload. Obviously not RAW, but good material nonetheless.

We...kind of blew up our old bag of holding to get there. :smallredface:

The psion does a lot of experimenting with that sort of thing, and the sorcerer is constantly finding new "get rich and powerful quick" schemes. If they don't start looking around already, I'll certainly bring it up.


Okay, the the meanwhile you mentioned certain party members being evil and a bit crazy. Assuming you have a peaceful encounter, say some planar merchants willing to trade a scroll of planeshift or some of the local natives, how many PCs would be able to resist attacking them?

Oh, our group has a reasonable amount of self-restraint. Sure, the ranger's a sociopath and the my character and the necromancer quite literally want to end all life everywhere, but we hardly attack everyone we meet. It's really more of a long-term goal. The psion's completely crazy, and the sorcerer's not far behind, but they're probably the most morally sound of all of us.


You're in quite a pickle, OP. But remember, no matter what, try to stay positive.

:smallannoyed:

[Waspinator]

Two atoms are walking down the street. One stops and says, "I think I dropped an electron!". The other says, "What, are you sure?". The first one replies "I'm positive!".

[Failed Phantasm]

This could certainly work. The sorcerer chose Defenestrating Sphere as his 4th-level spell, as well as shocking grasp, so that could certainly potentially make a breach. I think the psion has at least one energy-related power too. The elemental plane of air may not be safe, but at the very least we could get around and find a portal back to the astral plane without exploding or needing to constantly mutilate ourselves.

Where, praytell, are the rules for planar breaches?

Considering the alternatives, the Plane of Air is as safe as you can get on an Inner Plane. Subjective gravity, everyone can fly (usually) without worry of crashing into something and taking falling damage, and you can breathe without worry. As opposed to potentially: drowning, burning to death, having the life energy sucked out of you until you die and rise again as an undead creature, or being buried alive in solid earth with no air and possibly miles and miles of soil and rock in all directions. :smallbiggrin:

I'm not sure how much of a non-OGL source I'm allowed to quote on the boards. As I said in the previous post, the exact rules are in the Planar Handbook (pages 151-153) but the most salient rules are thus:

In general, planar breaches only occur randomly. There's a spell in the Planar Handbook that can create one, but it's Sorc/Wiz 5. That said, all planar breaches have four qualities: onset, area, duration, and severity.

Onset is simply how long it takes for the breach to form.
All planar breaches, regardless of severity or other factors, create a breach of the same size (10d10 feet in radius).
Duration is what you would think it is. The more severe the breach, the longer it lasts. Also, the longer it lasts, the more chance you have of attracting those damn inevitables who patrol planar boundaries. (But that depends on your DM.)
Severity comes in three flavors: minor, severe, and complete. Minor breaches only cause any elemental or energy traits from the breaching plane to spill over into the breached plane. Major ones allow a 20% chance of transit between planes (100% if you succeed on a fairly trivial Knowledge (the planes) check) and cause alignment and magical traits (impeded or enhanced magic, for example) to spill over. A complete breach is basically a hole in reality where two planes are totally connected, and the area where they intersect has the traits of both planes simultaneously - even if they would clash ordinarily (for example, Fire and Water). Travelers can move freely through the hole from one plane to the other.

[Ravens_cry]

Personally, I've always considered the 'Undead are Immune to the Dangers But Not the Benefits of the PEP" to be a rules bug, like bucket healing, given that the fluff description talks about how rare undead are on that plane.
You can give a post-facto 'explanation', but I'd just give a small houserule that says undead are damaged by the energy at the same rate living creatures are healed.

[The Random NPC]

This is a neat interpretation and saves the rules, but it definitely isn't RAW.
A) I don't know of any such rule B) It wouldn't make sense context because you just said that in the first quote that this wasn't "natural". The idea is neat and is a reasonable fluff explanation though.

Page 147 DMG


Material Plane: This Plane is the most familiar to characters and is usually the "home base" for a standard D&D campaign. The Material Plane tends to be the most Earthlike of all planes and operates under the same set of natural laws that our real world does.
EDIT:
Also the biggest danger you face is the lack of air.



There is no air in the Positive Energy Plane. While the plane is not a true vacuum (the positive energy provides the equivalent of normal atmospheric pressure), suffocation is a great danger. Even the fast healing given to all inhabitants of the plane has no effect on suffocation. Travelers on this plane must bring their own atmosphere or forgo breathing while here.

[Fates]

Hrmmm...

I think I've figured it out, actually. We just need to sacrifice the weaver. Our DM is alright with the sacrifice rules from BoVD (it's a good thing our group isn't prone to cheesiness, or the game would be over by now)- With my max ranks in knowledge (religion), I have a total of +15. With the right bonuses, that could get as high as +26 (27 if he's a virgin). That gives us pretty good odds of managing to summon an evil outsider as per Greater Planar Ally.

Now, does anyone know any good 18 or less evil outsiders that could get us out of the PEP? I know the vast majority can only use plane shift on themselves.

EDIT: Or alternatively, I could try for a limited wish, which would let me use Plane Shift....

[Fates]

Page 147 DMG

EDIT:
Also the biggest danger you face is the lack of air.

Oh.

Well then.


SH*TSH*TSH*TSH*TSH*TSH*TSH*TSH*TSH*TSH*TSH*TSH*TSH *TSH*TSH*TSH*TSH*TSH*TSH*TSH*TSH*TSH*TSH*TSH*TSH*T SH*TSH*TSH*TSH*TSH*TSH*TSH*TSH*TSH*T

[The Random NPC]

On the positive side, the anaerobic bacteria in your bodies may give rise to a complex enough system that food and water can be grown. (Also since I don't remember anyone answering your question, subjective gravity is when you get to choose where down is.)

[Failed Phantasm]

Well, if you do create a breach to the Plane of Air... voila! Instant breathable atmosphere (well, instant windstorm as the air rushes to equalize pressure between the Plane of Air and the Positive Energy Plane). Though I suppose summoning a fiend so it could watch you all asphyxiate to death would make its day.

EDIT: If you do go that route, Glabrezu can cast wish once a month on behalf of a mortal and they're < CR 18.

[Fates]

Well, if you do create a breach to the Plane of Air... voila! Instant breathable atmosphere (well, instant windstorm as the air rushes to equalize pressure between the Plane of Air and the Positive Energy Plane). Though I suppose summoning a fiend so it could watch you all asphyxiate to death would make its day.

EDIT: If you do go that route, Glabrezu can cast wish once a month on behalf of a mortal and they're < CR 18.

If I go through with the sacrifice idea, I won't have time to do most of what I intended, so the ritual would be much shorter. I'd still be able to manage it, but I'd need a roll of at least 15, and we've only got one person to kill. :smallfrown:

EDIT: Actually, Glabrezu are 12 HD, so I could summon one with the regular Planar Ally effect, which only requires a 25, and that's easy sauce for me.

[Phelix-Mu]

Well, if you do create a breach to the Plane of Air... voila! Instant breathable atmosphere (well, instant windstorm as the air rushes to equalize pressure between the Plane of Air and the Positive Energy Plane). Though I suppose summoning a fiend so it could watch you all asphyxiate to death would make its day.

EDIT: If you do go that route, Glabrezu can cast wish once a month on behalf of a mortal and they're < CR 18.

A glabrezu would demand unusually high payment for this kind of wish, I'd think. Usually it's used to tempt people with riches, but since you are in a serious bind, the guy with the keys to your prison cell, so to speak, should drive a hard bargain.

It's never something for nothing with fiends.

EDIT: A living human sacrifice sounds nice, but in a situation where everyone will die shortly, it's nothing special. The evil people's souls are already going you know where, after all.

[Fates]

A glabrezu would demand unusually high payment for this kind of wish, I'd think. Usually it's used to tempt people with riches, but since you are in a serious bind, the guy with the keys to your prison cell, so to speak, should drive a hard bargain.

It's never something for nothing with fiends.

This thought was just crossing my mind.

Also, given our utter lack of breath, it may be difficult even getting the message across to it.

[NeoPhoenix0]

(well, instant windstorm as the air rushes to equalize pressure between the Plane of Air and the Positive Energy Plane).

there would be no windstorm. the positive energy has a normal atmospheric pressure.

[NeoPhoenix0]

one or more of you may have to sell your soul to a demon or devil.

on the bright side you can access new feats of questionable usefulness. on the down side your lifespan may be shortened if they become impatient to collect your soul later.

[Fates]

one or more of you may have to sell your soul to a demon or devil.

on the bright side you can access new feats of questionable usefulness. on the down side your lifespan may be shortened if they become impatient to collect your soul later.

And on another bright side, if we do indeed bring an age of undeath to our entire plane (including to ourselves) we won't need to worry about a shortened lifespan at all. :smallbiggrin:

[NeoPhoenix0]

And on another bright side, if we do indeed bring an age of undeath to our entire plane (including to ourselves) we won't need to worry about a shortened lifespan at all. :smallbiggrin:

no then you just have to fight off pissed demons. if the contract is with a devil check the fine print. they might not be able to directly kill you. then again under these circumstances they are sure to make themselves a very favorable contract. be prepared to defend your soul even in undeath.

[Cirrylius]

And on another bright side, if we do indeed bring an age of undeath to our entire plane (including to ourselves) we won't need to worry about a shortened lifespan at all. :smallbiggrin:

Heh. Now that you're on the Positive Prime, you could make a new story and overturn the whole Deathworld trope by murdering your homeworld with an endless thundering deluge of life-radiation:smallbiggrin:

[Gavinfoxx]

Pazuzu Pazuzu Pazuzu!

=D =D =D

[KillingAScarab]

This is might be a longshot, but you have access to defenestrating sphere. It's an evocation, so it creates the air rather than simply uses what is available. It also requires a move action to make an attack. Could you perhaps create a defenestrating sphere, leave it alone and stick your head in it to breathe? Even if you take damage, healing isn't a problem. Each sphere will last one round per level, but that's better than suffocating immediately.

[NeoPhoenix0]

sounds like people getting hurt by friendly fire, and being randomly thrown around. that sounds like a party.

you should definitely do this and break out the good drinks to.

[Vizzerdrix]

e minor-positive-dominant persuasion.

Just hope that means it has an air pocket. If so, then use yourselves as bait. Throw out some flashy spells and hope it either draws attention or something to kill for xp.