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View Full Version : Truly Random Loot: What Bones Must Be Thrown?



Zaq
2013-04-05, 02:59 PM
[Disclaimer: I'm not currently even in a 3.5 game, and I have no plans to GM one ever again, since I'm bad at it and don't have the energy. This is strictly theoretical.]

So, items are a huge part of a character in 3.5. Like it or hate it, it's true. But recently, I've been tickled by the idea of loot tables. Used as-is with no regard for the campaign, they can feel clunky, almost barbaric (they are, after all, a throwback to earlier days), but let's say for the sake of argument that you want to use them for some reason.

Starting from the premise that the idea of PC wishlists is to be entirely disregarded and the players will get nothing but randomly rolled loot (though I'll mention that the tables used for this theoretical generation should be as broad as possible; we don't want to cut out non-DMG items, after all), what inherent tricks should be given to the PCs to ensure that they can still face appropriate challenges?

(Let's say that the party contains no crafters, and that magic mart access is highly restricted (no, even if you can magic your way to Sigil, that defeats the point of the enterprise). Hell, let's even say that the party contains no Wizards or Archivists, so the concept of buying new spells just isn't an issue. (Other full casters, fine, but I'm just trying to make things easy.) Let's say that the party is on board with this idea, and while they're free to use their resources to meet challenges, they're not looking to directly obviate this whole idea by all playing Sorcerers or whatever.)

First off, we have to do something with the raw numbers of the system. Ability scores could be handled with something akin to the VoP suite of bonuses (without using VoP itself, of course). We could say that everyone has the ability to cast an extraordinary GMW-style effect once or twice per day, based on their character level. I'm not sure how to handle AC, since so much of that comes from little bonuses scrounged up here and there rather than from one overarching source. Also, just to be nice to fightin'-man types, we'll say that everyone has the Warblade's ability to shuffle around weapon feats as needed, and we'll say that any character who primarily relies on hitting things can adapt to use whatever weapons they find with minimal difficulty with proficiency. We're trying to have people using weird items, not mandate that EWP take up the bulk of everyone's feat list.

But numbers are the easy part. We just figure out roughly what numbers we want the PCs to be sporting, then we throw in random inherent cookies until the numbers match what we expect. That's easy. Unfortunately, PCs need more than numbers to succeed in 3.5. They need movement, especially flight. They need weird sensory modes. They need resistances and immunities. How do we make sure that our randomly-equipped party isn't cut to ribbons by the first flying enemy they see? What's a fair way to hand out the miscellaneous benefits that everyone knows you eventually need without just giving everyone spells?

So, to recap, we have a party who's expecting to get plenty of loot, but they're not expecting to choose any of it, including through crafting or purchasing. We want to be able to send them against the same challenges you'd send a typical party up against. If you were in this situation, what would you do to give the PCs a fighting chance? What boons do we have to give out to make sure this isn't doomed from the start, and how would you handle it?

OzymandiasX
2013-04-08, 02:10 PM
It isn't doomed from the start. If the party is of appropriate size and balance, most items are useful to someone and no item/ability is ever required for a combat... (If an enemy is flying, you don't need to fly... use ranged attacks. If an enemy is a fire elemental in a pool of lava, you don't need fire immunity... fight it somewhere else)

Also, in a game universe where loot is 100% random, consider that other adventurers would have the same problem and trading of magical items would be common. Think along the lines of a Use Magic Item Warehouse store.

That said, having all loot be truly random probably isn't fun for anyone involved. I'd only recommend it if your goal is to run a game that isn't fun to play in. lol

Devronq
2013-04-08, 02:44 PM
It isn't doomed from the start. If the party is of appropriate size and balance, most items are useful to someone and no item/ability is ever required for a combat... (If an enemy is flying, you don't need to fly... use ranged attacks. If an enemy is a fire elemental in a pool of lava, you don't need fire immunity... fight it somewhere else)

Also, in a game universe where loot is 100% random, consider that other adventurers would have the same problem and trading of magical items would be common. Think along the lines of a Use Magic Item Warehouse store.

That said, having all loot be truly random probably isn't fun for anyone involved. I'd only recommend it if your goal is to run a game that isn't fun to play in. lol

That depends on what the loot is i mean to be honest theres alot of treasure that just no one wants so if you made a random table but use the more commonly wanted items, even if they arent exactly what the players want i dont see why it would detract from the fun. Items like cloaks of resistance, rings of protection wands potions etc im sure the players arent going to be upset at the loot. Myself i tend to make the good loot being held by someone, why should the expensive sword be in the chest instead of being held by an enemy? The enemies is what i make random, lot the loot per sey. Lets say the party was a thw fighter and maybe the foes are sword and board so the fighter doesnt get a new th weapon but the armor/rinfs other items might be useful for him. The way i see it the players shouldnt get exactly what gear they want but it should be based on whats useful for the enemies builds to have otherwise why would they be holding it?

tyckspoon
2013-04-08, 03:06 PM
I suspect you'd only really have to increase the amount of treasure provided. Assuming you have inherent-type bonuses to keep fundamental numbers level (to-hits/AC/saves and the like), if you roll enough random treasures you'll find things to cover most of the incidentals you want. They may not be the ideal solutions- you may have to cling to the back of a Figurine of Wondrous Power instead of turning on your handy Wings of Flying- but there's enough items scattered around that go 'oh, and also it does this useful trick but only 1/day for 1 minute' that you'd probably be able to do most things when you really needed to. Just not all the time in the most efficient way.

Gnaeus
2013-04-08, 03:53 PM
You would really want a varied party so that you can get maximum use of the gear you do get. A range of armor types, a range of different power types (divine caster, arcane caster, Psionic guy, etc..). Probably at least 2 people with significant UMD unless you are mostly or all casters. If you roll a big staff or scroll, if you can't use it, you are just boned in this hypothetical.

DrDeth
2013-04-08, 05:12 PM
I ran some AD&D modules for 3rd ed. Many of the bad guys have low level magic weapons and armor. After everyone has one set of armor and a couple of weapons the rest will be dead weight. Now, there are a couple classes in 3rd ed which have the ability to turn piles of loot into boosts for their special weapon (OA and BoED). What you need is for everyone to have one such item. Thus dups can be “burned’, but only so far as to boost ONE item per PC and no more than the guidelines.

We did this in The Worlds Largest Dungeon, and it worked fine.

Urpriest
2013-04-08, 05:25 PM
Zaq, you know at least part of the answer to this. Truenamers need skill-boosting items, after all.

Averis Vol
2013-04-08, 06:41 PM
Honestly, random loot is most of the reason I play DnD. If you're just getting loot tailored to you, I feel cheated of the chance to find a random niche item that will be forgotten until its needed. I play primarily mundanes, so I know the need for gear, but If at say level three we find a horde with a +1 great axe and a suit of +1 chainmail, I will normally take them if they are better than what I have. and if later on we find a suit of mundane full plate, I might change out the chainmail for it.

And I think another point is......the only time you care about random loot is at low levels when you still need the gear off the orcs back, instead of high levels where you have the wealth to go to a big city that does have the gear you need.

Flickerdart
2013-04-08, 07:57 PM
As long as the WBL guidelines are being followed correctly (as "value of gear the PCs are using" and not "amount of wealth dropped by monsters to date") then you need make no modifications. The PCs simply sell the stuff they don't need at the local merchant and buy whatever they want.

Matticussama
2013-04-08, 09:23 PM
This makes the Warblade's Weapon Aptitude class feature even more powerful, since they can adjust weapon-specific feats to any type of weapon with 1 hour of practice. Have a +1 longsword but you found a +3 battleaxe? No problem.