[3.5] Put AMF on my Familiar!

[Phelix-Mu]

Hello Playground,

I had an interesting idea the other day involving an anti-magic field spell and familiars. But it's unclear to me that there is a method allowing my character to put the anti-magic field on her familiar. I'm pretty sure a method exists; such are the loopholes inherent in spellcasting.

Please help if you can. Thanks.

[the_david]

You can, but he has to stay within 5ft. range. (Or not, it's not very clear.)

"Share Spells
At the master’s option, he may have any spell (but not any spell-like ability) he casts on himself also affect his familiar. The familiar must be within 5 feet at the time of casting to receive the benefit.

If the spell or effect has a duration other than instantaneous, it stops affecting the familiar if it moves farther than 5 feet away and will not affect the familiar again even if it returns to the master before the duration expires. Additionally, the master may cast a spell with a target of "You" on his familiar (as a touch range spell) instead of on himself.

A master and his familiar can share spells even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the familiar’s type (magical beast)."

[Susano-wo]

sounds pretty clear. you can cast it using share spell, but it has to stay right by you, which I'm guessing fouls up your plan :smallwink:

[Phelix-Mu]

You can, but he has to stay within 5ft. range. (Or not, it's not very clear.)

"Share Spells
...snip....

I was totally unclear that emanation spells are of a type covered by Share Spells special ability, as they don't have a range of personal or anything that seems to be covered in the description of Share Spells.

[Phelix-Mu]

sounds pretty clear. you can cast it using share spell, but it has to stay right by you, which I'm guessing fouls up your plan :smallwink:

No, actually, it works just fine. The idea was have her put the familiar into a familiar pocket, cast AMF with share spell, dispel it on herself, but leave it on the familiar. Not sure it it works...really, the effect of AMF on the familiar pocket seems problematic.

So the utility is that you can whip the familiar out of the familiar pocket at a moments notice, and while in the pocket, the pocket blocks line of sight.

The first step in making the plan work is making sure that you can center the AMF on the familiar. One step at a time...

[Flickerdart]

a) AMF can't be shared with Share Spell because it is not a spell with a target and is thus not ever "a spell you cast on yourself".
b) AMF on a familiar in a familiar pocket would suppress the familiar pocket spell and not actually hide the familiar at all.

[Phelix-Mu]

a) AMF can't be shared with Share Spell because it is not a spell with a target and is thus not ever "a spell you cast on yourself".
b) AMF on a familiar in a familiar pocket would suppress the familiar pocket spell and not actually hide the familiar at all.

Thanks, I suspected the first part. This leaves me with only some weird Sanctum Spell stuff for getting the AMF on the familiar, which probably won't work either, so the idea is probably not going to work.

As to part b, is there some info somewhere on what happens to a bag of holding or similar extradimensional space subjected to an AMF? I'll probably have to look into a non-magical way to block line of effect.

[Carth]

Give your familiar an antimagic torc? It's just a 1/day AMF item, from Underdark I think?

[Bakeru]

You can, but he has to stay within 5ft. range. (Or not, it's not very clear.)

"Share Spells
At the master’s option, he may have any spell (but not any spell-like ability) he casts on himself also affect his familiar. The familiar must be within 5 feet at the time of casting to receive the benefit.

If the spell or effect has a duration other than instantaneous, it stops affecting the familiar if it moves farther than 5 feet away and will not affect the familiar again even if it returns to the master before the duration expires. Additionally, the master may cast a spell with a target of "You" on his familiar (as a touch range spell) instead of on himself.

A master and his familiar can share spells even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the familiar’s type (magical beast)."Ok, it's already been said that this wouldn't work with AMF, since AMF isn't personal, but I still want to note: I would interpret the underlined part as being independent of the "must stay within 5 feet"-part. So, if you cast something on your familiar that has Target: Personal, the Familiar can go on a trip afterwards.


Still, it seems what the OP actually wants is an AMF as an immediate or free action, and just saw this as a workaround...

[Phelix-Mu]

Still, it seems what the OP actually wants is an AMF as an immediate or free action, and just saw this as a workaround...

Indeed, the AMF is just the first step. But this is more filed under "neat tricks to use with a familiar, and I was trying to think of useful things to do with the line of effect blocking familiar pocket spell.

[Jack_Simth]

Get a Ring of spell storing (core item), cast Antimagic Field into the ring, put the ring on your familiar, let your familiar activate the ring. You may need a Raven familiar to pull it off (command-word item), or just a casting of Tongues to let it speak.

[Phelix-Mu]

Get a Ring of spell storing (core item), cast Antimagic Field into the ring, put the ring on your familiar, let your familiar activate the ring. You may need a Raven familiar to pull it off (command-word item), or just a casting of Tongues to let it speak.

Hmm, maybe that would work. The familiar readies an action to cast the spell out of the ring when it is brought forth from the familiar pocket (a free) action. The readied action interrupts initiative order, so the AMF goes up before anyone else can act.

Hmm. This might work pretty well.

[Bakeru]

...except that you can only use free actions while it's your turn.
Free actions consume a very small amount of time and effort. You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally. However, there are reasonable limits on what you can really do for free.

Since, unless I'm mistaken, the familiar acts on your turn, anyway, you might as well have it sitting on your shoulder to use the item on your command.

[Jack_Simth]

...except that you can only use free actions while it's your turn.

Since, unless I'm mistaken, the familiar acts on your turn, anyway, you might as well have it sitting on your shoulder to use the item on your command.

Readied actions do funny things to initiative, and as free actions are done as part of other actions, for the most part, it shouldn't be too bad to ready the free action along with the standard.

[Bakeru]

Readied actions do funny things to initiative, and as free actions are done as part of other actions, for the most part, it shouldn't be too bad to ready the free action along with the standard.But he seemed to plan to pull out the familiar as a free action (without readying), and having the familiar use a readied action. The "familiar readies an action" isn't a problem, the "using a free action outside of your current turn without having it (or anything else) readied" is.

[Jack_Simth]

But he seemed to plan to pull out the familiar as a free action (without readying), and having the familiar use a readied action. The "familiar readies an action" isn't a problem, the "using a free action outside of your current turn without having it (or anything else) readied" is.
Ah, yes. If the familiar can't get out of the pocket itself, that could be a hurdle.

[Susano-wo]

hmm, I see the ambiguity now. I always figured casting a spell that emanated from yourself would count as being cast on yourself. though yeah, the familiar pocket would be antimagiced out of existance

As far as useful things to do with a familiar, have you tried taking a flying familiar and using it for benign transposition? I love that one :smallamused:

[Spuddles]

Just put the familiar in a regular pocket. Those block AMF just fine.

[Phelix-Mu]

hmm, I see the ambiguity now. I always figured casting a spell that emanated from yourself would count as being cast on yourself. though yeah, the familiar pocket would be antimagiced out of existance

As far as useful things to do with a familiar, have you tried taking a flying familiar and using it for benign transposition? I love that one :smallamused:

Mid-levels with my Sun School Monk/Wizard were much like this. Benign transpostion next to the enemy, free attack, avoid charge penalties. Also, as you say, good for getting to hard to reach places.

My original plan used the familiar's action to get itself out of the familiar pocket. I think that should work.

Getting in and out of a normal pocket is probably a move action, not a free action. I may be able to get around this, though, but the more pertinent problem is that the familiar is a bird, and it doesn't fit in a "pocket."


Since, unless I'm mistaken, the familiar acts on your turn, anyway, you might as well have it sitting on your shoulder to use the item on your command.

As to this point, the familiar can opt to not act on your turn by changing it's initiative via a readied action. I often do this, since it's more useful to have the kind of contingencies available to a familiar available to me before my next turn rolls around. This can open up some different uses of imbue familiar with spell ability, a very tactically useful spell.