How many city guard should a city have?

[Rustybarnacle]

I was looking for some kind of table but can't find anything obvious.

Setting: 20 years after a major war, good has been winning over hearts and minds, evil is trying to make a comeback.

Sprawling Metropolis of about 50,000 people who only very occasionally need to defend the city against outside attack.

[Amnestic]

Cityscape (pg. 157-158) actually suggests that while some cities do have official law enforcement, some will not - relying on private entities or adventurers to apprehend criminals. For a city that size, perhaps rather than an official city guard they instead have the military handle crimes during peacetime, supplemented by a few mercenary forces/adventurer parties as needs require.

[ArcturusV]

Yeah, with a city of 50,000 and a lack of serious crime (from the sound of it), or external threats, you might want to go more with an Old West sort of feeling to it.

Whoever rules the city probably has an honor guard. Maybe 20-40 guys who know their stuff pretty damned well. This is effectively the entire "official" city guard/army for the city.

When things happen, they deal with it. A group of 20-40 would be able to handle things like small time gangs and criminal elements in that city, no problem. When something BIG comes, like one of those occasional attacks, or there is some serious criminal element they can't handle with just 20-40 guys? Round up a posse. Arm some guys willing to go vigilante with you, and ride out.

[Darkcouch]

In some of the rougher cities in the US these days they have 40-45 officers per 10k population with DC being way above the rest at 65. The mean of the top 100 or so cities is about 22.25 per 10k, and the weighted average is around 26.5 per 10k. So depending on how lawless you want your city to be somewhere between 110 and 225 officers of the watch would be about right.

[Tvtyrant]

Well if we assume workers make between 1 and 3 SP a day (hireling prices under goods and services) then the nonadjusted 10% tax/tithe would be between 180,000 and 540,000 GP annually (if they have graduated taxes maybe more.) This assumes 50,000 adults of course, so maybe cut it in half.

The government has maybe between 60,000 and 250,000 GP to use annually. A Stone Golem costs 90,000 GP but would provide the city with a CR 11 defender. So I would expect a city defender of some sort with a mid level CR, and a paid volunteer police force.

[Soranar]

according to DnD rules, really up to your DM

according to history in real life, something like this:

before city guards were invented the king (or whatever lord was in charge of a city) would have a personal guard in charge of keeping him or her safe

note that leaders of small cities were known for walking the streets alone, usually without being afraid of being stabbed and guards were more like a volunteer firefighter/militia position where they would show up when needed and act like normal citizens the rest of the time (most common in cities too small to afford permanent guards).

since it's cheaper to keep part time guards and that it's harder to police a region without modern transportation, the usual ratio was something like 1 guard for 400-500 people (so for 50 000 people, you'd get about 100 guys)

If you're at war, most towns will conscript every able bodied men in the city for a militia (usually something like 20-30 % of the population), if they're desperate they'll take every men over 12 and even some women (closer to 50%, can go up to 60%)

Caesar was known for having the quirk of walking the streets of Rome alone and unarmed, this despite being in charge of the largest city in Europe and he did it for 3 years straight before he was assassinated

once Rome introduced city guards and praetorian guards (due to the Caesar being stabbed incident) you got something like the following

praetorian guard, a whole regiment
city watch , about the same as the praetorian guard
militia firefighters, about 10 times the regiment

(all of this while keeping the 400 or 500 to 1 ratio, meaning that if you get 100 guys you'd get about 8-10 elites, 8-10 regulars, 80-100 militia)

Romes' population was closer to a 1 000 000 people so a regiment was a lot more guards than 10 but the ratio usually holds up

(I did a paper on the subject last year so it's still fairly fresh in my mind(

but this is DnD, they might not have modern transportation and communication but they have magical transportation and communication

so I'd compare them to modern law enforcement instead

modern law enforcement are not nearly that numerous and the ratio really varies from one country to another (forget 500 to 1, it can go all the way up to 10 000 to 1), for example London uses 6 times as many cops as Montreal (all proportions kept) due to the fact that they don't use firearms and they're often on foot, they also walk around in groups of 4-6 as opposed to cops here that usually go in groups of 1 or 2

also, there is an argument to be made that certain demographics are harder to keep in line than others (due to wealth, unemployment or other variables)

still, I'd compare it to the following

do you have 4-6 low tier classes patrolling the streets (say a group of NPC warriors)

or do you have 1 or 2 high tier classes patrolling the streets (with a mindbender in charge of communications or the like) and high speed modes of transportation available (like flying carpets)

again, up to you. DnD is fairly flexible so you can probably come up with something that sounds right

[hamishspence]

I believe the DMG had rules- which can be adjusted if you want a more, or less, militarized city.

[JaronK]

An interesting option for some cities might be a guard that's paid not by the local lord, but by a sort of merchant collective. Thus, these guards would protect the market as well as hunt down thieves (supplementing this with bounties paid to those who bring in wanted thieves). Meanwhile, a lord might only have a military force that also guards the gates of the city to collect taxes on those entering. Thus, you could have multiple guards for multiple purposes.

JaronK

[Eldan]

That depends entirely. A professional police force is quite a recent invention. Medieval cities wouldn't have them. They might have militia in case of war, or a bodyguard for the local lord.

Of course, D&D isn't really medieval. So, go with what feels appropriate? Or better, don't give a precise number, unless you need to. Keep it at "as many as necessary for the story". If hte PCs need to be discovered in some illegal situation, have patrols. If not, have none.

[Spiryt]

Every guild in Medieval and Renaissance cities usually had it's own fragment of walls to protect during any danger.

Actual, 'everyday' city guard may be harder to find, but for example, in the middle of 15th century, Gdańsk had about ~30 000 population, and in 1459 200 towns 'enforces' could be sent to suppress the riots among the nearby Lębork poor folk.

So towns militia would generally have such numbers at least, probably a bit more, while all of them simply wouldn't be on duty on the same time in normal situation.

But one have to remember that, at least in 'stereotypical' European medieval towns, people of any remotely decent material status were generally very accustomed to weapons, and from the lack of better world, 'militarized'.

So in case of any particular need, some more militia could be organized rather easily.

[Skysaber]

I am actually rather fond of the fact that medieval cities didn't have standing police forces as we are familiar with them. However, there is also the fact that medieval cities didn't have the long list of supernatural horrors willing to feed on them, present in D&D.

Just as PCs equip themselves to face the horrors they fight, cities would have to do the same. And, yes, in both cases that requires some magic.

The biggest threats to cities are creatures with some form of the Spawn ability, ie, if you let in one, shortly you have nothing else.

Backing up a step, certain periods in history were so turbulent you simply didn't build a city without a city wall, and most D&D worlds & nations easily qualify for that level of danger.

So, you have gates and gatehouses restricting entry into your city. That is good, as it allows you to enchant those gatehouses as Wondrous Architecture granting all within the Discern Bloodline spell, 1st level, out of Races of Destiny. This allows your guards in those guardhouses to see at a glance the race and inherited templates of every creature that comes through. So they'd be alerted to lycanthropes, undead, dopplegangers, polymorphed dragons, etc.

Some vampire wants to come into town, and he's out of luck, no matter his Disguise check to look human.

Of course, detecting them is only your first step, then you've got to beat them, but as another post already pointed out, at a flat tax rate of 10% a city of your size should be able to afford one Stone Golem per year. Just keep that up until you've got 4 at every gatehouse. One or two would do as a start, but don't forget deterrent value. People and monsters exist that can beat one or two stone golems, and if they beat them then you've got to replace them, but things that can beat 4 generally don't even have to try, as they've got better ways to get in.

Second step is your town wall. It's going to be a circle. Why? Because magic item creation guidelines don't restrict the size of something you want to enchant as a magic item, and you are going to enchant your entire city wall as a Magic Circle vs Evil.

Most things that prey upon towns us some form of mind control or domination, and depriving them of that is just as vital as a melee specialist having an enchanted weapon - if you've got the role you've got to do it.

Alchemical weapon capsules can provide silver or ghost touch at need. There would be state employed alchemists who produce nothing else, as every city guard (including golems) have got to have handy at all times. Also, a few low level warriors armed with flasks of alchemical spark of alchemist's frost (not fire, as you don't want to burn up your city) can do SOME damage to virtually anything, so they'd be standard issue for all patrols & guards.

Don't forget low level paladins as part of every guard rotation and patrol, doing routine sweeps with their Detect Evil ability. This gives you some ability to discover threats that snuck in without passing through your gatehouses, as most things that are a threat to cities are also evil. Saddle your churches with the responsibility of producing these guys, and give everyone who takes up the duty a tax break.

Finally, saddle your mage guild with the responsibility of have two or three Allips subject to Command Undead and confined to their basement, until you are getting invaded by something your ordinary patrols can't take out. Use those Allips as your rapid response force to take down rogue adventurers, disguised dragons, mighty undead, anything else out of the ability of your standard patrols to handle.

[TuggyNE]

Use those Allips as your rapid response force to take down rogue adventurers, disguised dragons, mighty undead, anything else out of the ability of your standard patrols to handle.

The rest of this is good, but undead are immune to all ability drain.

[Rustybarnacle]

Wow guys thats awesome thanks.

Basically the city guard numbers are just to know how many died keeping order while the PCs figure out why things are amiss. Their reward depends on survival rate of the general population and the survival rate of the city guard determines how hard the next adventure will be.

But all this info will be very handy. Getting back the search engine on here as well as being able to see my own posts would be very handy for coming back to things like this so I don't have to bookmark all my questions threads.

[Marnath]

Wow guys thats awesome thanks.

Basically the city guard numbers are just to know how many died keeping order while the PCs figure out why things are amiss. Their reward depends on survival rate of the general population and the survival rate of the city guard determines how hard the next adventure will be.

But all this info will be very handy. Getting back the search engine on here as well as being able to see my own posts would be very handy for coming back to things like this so I don't have to bookmark all my questions threads.

If it hasn't been mentioned, the city of Waterdeep in Forgotten Realms D&D has 1,200 standing membership in the city guard (the elite soldiers) and 1,600 city watch (police) plus a 2,000 strong navy. Mobilizing to 12,000 soldiers and 9,000 navy in war-times if given a chance. That's for a city of roughly 132,000 people. So if you wanted to use that as a measurement since it's a D&D city, you could just divide those numbers by about 40% or so depending on how militarized your city is.


*edit: They also have gryphon cavalry and a powerful mage guild, if you wanted to add some of that.

[Flickerdart]

Three. The good-natured and laid-back one, the loose cannon who doesn't play by the rules, and the hard-tack by-the-book veteran.

[Winter_Wolf]

I usually just eyeball it, but ending up about 10% of the permanent population "on tap" for guard duty. 'Course that's mainly grunts (non-caster/minor casting like rangers or bards), and "special ops" types are more of a "go to the local temples/mage guild and threaten to revoke their charter if they decline".

Life is hard, brutal, and often unnaturally short in my campaign worlds.

[Coidzor]

Three. The good-natured and laid-back one, the loose cannon who doesn't play by the rules, and the hard-tack by-the-book veteran.

Alternatively, Nobby Nobbs, Fred Colon, Samuel Vimes, and Carrot Ironfounderson.

[the_david]

http://www222.pair.com/sjohn/blueroom/demog.htm

333 would be about average. If you use the Brandon Blackmoor calculator you'll end up with something between 83 and 1000

[Evard]

1 guard with a resetting trap of "Summon Guard Ally IX" that is spammable as an immediate free action.

[Sayt]

Pathfinder settlement rules indicate that about 1% of the population is a sustainable standing army, and in fantasy settings this can also be taken to include police and general security forces.

IIRC, 1% is also the real life rough guideline for standing militaries.

[Jon_Dahl]

Sprawling Metropolis of about 50,000 people who only very occasionally need to defend the city against outside attack.

This is very easy to calculate according to DMG page 99.

Your Sprawling Metropolis has approximately 500 full-time city guard.
120 are patrolling and 30 are guarding various locations during daytime, 140 are patrolling and 35 are guarding various locations during evenings, 140 are patrolling and 35 are guarding various locations during nighttime.

Vast majority are 1st-level warriors. Officers include NPCs with PC classes.

In a state of emergency, 2000 militia members are always ready to come to aid.

Also DMG page 133 is helpful.