So I'm making a Sherlock Holmes (2009 movie) style unarmed fighter...

[Gavinfoxx]

...And I'm thinking of a 9 or so Gestalt (cause D&D isn't simulation exactly, and holmes is totes superhuman anyway), with Martial Dilettante Factotum:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=212864

On one side, and Punchbarian on the other.

The problem is, I'm having trouble picking which ACF's for the punchbarian side.

Spirit Lion Totem for sure...
Bear Totem for the grapple or Wolf Totem for tripping?
Ferocity or Whirling Frenzy?
City Brawler?
Street Fighter Barbarian?

Should I go two weapon fighting? Snap Kick?

Improved Unarmed Strike is a must, but how about Superior Unarmed Strike? Improved Natural Attack Unarmed Strike? How far do I have to go?

What about the various grappling feats? Should I go for those? Do I need Scorpion's Grasp?

How many Font of Inspirations do I need?

Knowledge Devotion?

Anyone have any suggestions?

Human, 32 point buy, presume open with the sources, if I can get the DM to get enthusiastic with this, he'll let me get away with murder.

Thanks!

Also, which maneuvers should I focus on for this fighting style?

For those that don't know the reference, it's this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGCMfprPJoA

Which is inspired by real world bartitsu, using several wing chun moves, classical fencing, brazilian jiu-jitsu, etc. etc.

[SowZ]

If flavor trumps crunch here at all, I would maybe squeak a few levels of Swashbuckler in there. Int to Damage seems totally in keeping with the concept.

[Rethmar]

Anything with an insight bonus.

[limejuicepowder]

Straight factotum with two-weapon fighting and knowledge devotion. Homebrew some flaws to model his borderline dysfunctional personality and to give him extra feats for fonts of inspiration (all of this other feats should be fonts of inspiration). Improved unarmed strike isn't strictly necessary IMO, since all it does is allow the character to inflict lethal damage. There's no explicit evidence that he ever does anything but non-lethal. Though there's isn't a rule for it, non-lethal should become lethal at some point - otherwise EVERY real-world person has imp unarmed strike.

Keep in mind that Holmes is probably a 5th or 6th level character, while his opponent was maybe 2nd level. The disparity in base combat ability shouldn't be confused with hero-level ability on Holmes' part.

[Nettlekid]

It doesn't really fit into the build too well, but the Complete Psionic PrC Zerth Cenobite is Monk-based, has psionics (for being...clever?) and has temporal manipulation abilities that could act like the 2009 Sherlock's slow-mo fight plan scenes.

[Gnome Alone]

otherwise EVERY real-world person has imp unarmed strike.
I like the idea that we Earthican humans have Imp. Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat, while an average Greyhawkling can not in fact punch someone to death.

[Man on Fire]

See if your DM will allow Pathfinder Barbarian or Fighter, they have archetypes you can use to improve your unarmed combat, as well as combat style feats, whic can be quite useful (Boar style giving you additional damage from unarmed strike? Me gusta).

[Gavinfoxx]

Why would the Pathfinder Archetypes be better than combining a whole mess of the 3.5e Barbarian ACF's that help with unarmed fighting?

[Talionis]

I think any levels of Barb would be... wrong on the fluff.

Tome of Battle could make up for this. Diamond Mind manuevers don't care whether you have a weapon or not. Warblade has an intelligence synergy. Tiger Claw maneuvers could simulate multiple hits, but so many maneuvers are good at disabling opponents.

Factotum on the other side simulates a lot of other things. I think Int to Strength and Dex checks is very big.

[Gwendol]

I agree with Talionis, drop the barbarian. ToB on the other hand fits wonderfully. As would swashbuckler. Factotum + Daring Outlaw perhaps. He does a lot of unarmed strikes but not that much grappling IIRC.

[Gavinfoxx]

I'm ignoring the barb fluff and taking it because of allows a combat trance ability?

[JackRose]

I'm ignoring the barb fluff and taking it because of allows a combat trance ability?

Even setting aside the fluff, it disallows any intelligence, wisdom, or dexterity based skills when raging, which is... sort of the opposite of how Holmes works.

[Lapak]

I like the idea that we Earthican humans have Imp. Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat, while an average Greyhawkling can not in fact punch someone to death.Certainly gives a nod (or a headbutt!) to the John Carter-type stories that are part of D&D's underpinnings. The Earthlings are a mighty species!

[Gavinfoxx]

Even setting aside the fluff, it disallows any intelligence, wisdom, or dexterity based skills when raging, which is... sort of the opposite of how Holmes works.

Do you see him obviously using any skills when in the combat trance? At any point in the movies?

[otakumick]

Do you see him obviously using any skills when in the combat trance? At any point in the movies?

Knowledge Anatomy, Knowledge Tactics, various things of that sort.

[Talionis]

Do you see him obviously using any skills when in the combat trance? At any point in the movies?

I always thought Sherlock would use Knowledge Devotion. I could also see him using Ijistu.

I just hate the thought of him turnoff options.

[Greenish]

Improved unarmed strike isn't strictly necessary IMO, since all it does is allow the character to inflict lethal damage.Well, it also allows you to make attacks without provoking AoO, that's pretty handy (unless everyone you ever fight is also unarmed and doesn't have IUS).

[KillianHawkeye]

Try a Monk with Kung Fu Genius feat instead of Barbarian.......

[Gavinfoxx]

I always thought Sherlock would use Knowledge Devotion. I could also see him using Ijistu.

I just hate the thought of him turnoff options.

So is there any sort of 'once in a very hard fight' sort of buff state that functions similarly to barbarian rage, works while unarmed, that doesn't turn off knowledge devotion?

[only1doug]

So is there any sort of 'once in a very hard fight' sort of buff state that functions similarly to barbarian rage, works while unarmed, that doesn't turn off knowledge devotion?

theres a whole bunch of them, they are called maneuvers and are found in the Book of the Nine Swords.

Swordsage seems appropriate for 1/fight moves

[Socratov]

theres a whole bunch of them, they are called maneuvers and are found in the Book of the Nine Swords.

Swordsage seems appropriate for 1/fight moves

allready used with martial dillettante hombrew.

I do see the barbarian working. I mean, if you can refluff rage into something focus-y you are golden (I thought threre was some sort of thing for that, can't remember what exactly). I mean, Sherlock is horrible against people (the word rude comes to mind), has no sense of boundaries, has drughabits and has a tendency to enjoy shooting a gun in the middle of the night or drugging other's pets.

A city themed barbarian is not out of the question.

On that thing, I think sherlock is not exactly an int-based character, but WIS. he does study and is intelligent in puzzling hte mystery to an end, but most of his talents lie in observing isntead of just seeing and he has a will like none other.

I mean, in teh books his catchphrase seems to be: "As always John, you see but you do not observe [proceeds to line out reasoning of the case as common sense]". He also tells John that he doesn't know a lot, he jsut applied his memory very specifically (not knowing whether the earth goes round the sun or vice versa, but able to identify tobacco from ashes).

This would lead me to believe he (in combat) is a cityscape barbarian//unarmed swordsage

[Gavinfoxx]

if you can refluff rage into something focus-y you are golden

That's... exactly what I am doing?

[Dusk Eclipse]

Entering rage is a free action, you could start combat normally use Knowledge Devotion as the same action to identify enemies (which itself is a non-action) and once you get the bonus you start raging. Other option could be to ask the DM if you could take a feat in the vein of Righteous Wraith (BoED) so you can use some skills while raging.

[only1doug]

allready used with martial dillettante hombrew.




sure, but why add barbarian? I'd be inclinded to add more maneuvers (from swordsage) instead of the static bonus from rage (or whatever ACF is chosen to replace it).

How I'd Build for this:

Swashbuckler 3 / Martial Dillettant Factotum 6 // Unarmed Swordsage 9

Swashbuckler adds Int to damage but slightly delays Dillettant manuevers, Unarmed Swordsage adds a greater number of manuevers. I agree that if anything swap out the Dillettant for another full BAB class, I'm not certain that I would use Barbarian though.