True Necromancer help

[Zonbitara]

So, I recently got the Libris Mortis. I've been playing as the same half-drow wizard for a few years now and am trying to begin taking levels of True necromancer. I have all the requirements required to begin taking levels in the class, but am extremely confused with what coincides with taking levels in the class. My main issue lies with what it means by "+1 level of arcane spellcasting class/+1 level of divine spellcasting class". Does this imply that I gain a spell-level, or does it imply that I treat it as if I gain more spells for that level? If any of you have insights on what the saying means, it would be much appreciated if you could share. Regards.

[A_S]

Short answer: It provides an equal benefit to your spellcasting that taking a level in the base casting class(es) in question would have provided.

Unrequested advice: True Necromancer is one of the worst classes in the game; don't take it.

[Zonbitara]

Worse than Dirgesinger?

[ZamielVanWeber]

Yes. True Necromancer simply mulches your 9th level spells if you take all 14 levels. If you duck out early enough to retain 9th level spells in one class, you miss out on the interesting feature of the True Necromancer.

To make it worse, Create Undead and Create Greater Undead are utterly pointless SLAs. Pale Master's Animate Dead is good because it ignores the gold cost. True Necro's SLAs do not.

[gorfnab]

From the Necromancer Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?PHPSESSID=llfub0gsm1qoho2i6e031us5o4&topic=5584.0)


Top Ten Reasons True Necromancers Are Bad

1. At 14th level, you are five caster levels behind in both classes, so if the party Fighter took Leadership, and his cohort got Leadership, he’d actually be bringing more Necromancy to the table than you. As a fighter.

2. You have to take the Death Domain as a Necromancer Cleric, which is a waste of a Domain Slot when you are trying to be good at Necromancy.

3. In the early levels, you postpone your access to Animate Dead by 4 levels.

4. At 8th level a True Necromancer can create, but not control Ghouls. A Cleric at that level can control but not create Ghouls. Guess which is better? At 11th level, the True Necromancer gets the ability to control Ghouls, and the Cleric gets the ability to create them, so there’s no point at which this is advantageous.

5. The only unique ability of the True Necromancer class is unimpressive. Desecrate is a great spell, but it’s also a second level spell.

6. True Necromancers eventually get a bonus to Rebuking – at 17th level they have a +1 bonus to their Rebuking level. But at 7th level they have a 3 level penalty to their Rebuking level. So at low levels when rebuking is good they can’t use it, and at high levels when Rebuking doesn’t matter they don’t care.

7. True Necromancers are always going to have underwhelming Save DCs. Between MAD and the fact that they are often forced to use spells that are 3 spell levels lower than what the single-classed casters can use, they’re going to be out enough Save DC that it shows. A lot.

8. As a True Necromancer you have all the disadvantages of both a Cleric (the gods can take away all your spellcasting at any time), and a Wizard (you have Arcane Spell Failure, preventing you from wearing good armor). Also, your BAB and HPs stink when compared to a Cleric.

9. Control pools from Animate Dead actually don’t accumulate between your two classes. It’ right in the spell, if you cast the spell it considers all undead you control from all castings of Animate Dead, not just your Arcane or just your Divine castings of the spell. Some people say differently, and some even quote CustServ, but when was the last time you won an argument with your DM using the line "some guy on a board said that CustServ told him....."?

10. There is almost no synergy between Cleric and Wizard Necromancy. Any synergy you desperately want to find could be replicated by just taking the Apprentice feat at first level and having some Use Magic Device. Get yourself a couple of Wizard Scrolls or something. It’s a better buy than setting 5 caster levels on fire. Smart cookies can even get the right spell effects off monsters for free, no less.

Here is another Necromancy Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=214212) that may be of use.

[Karnith]

Taking full True Necromancer levels is still not as bad as full Yathrinshee levels, at least.

There are some niche cases where, depending on cheese tolerance and sources allowed, the TN isn't horrible. The caster level boost on necromancy things can be a big deal, for example. Generally, though, you'd be better off just taking levels in Mystic Theurge.

[Arcanist]

Yes. True Necromancer simply mulches your 9th level spells if you take all 14 levels. If you duck out early enough to retain 9th level spells in one class, you miss out on the interesting feature of the True Necromancer.

Agreed, 100%.


To make it worse, Create Undead and Create Greater Undead are utterly pointless SLAs. Pale Master's Animate Dead is good because it ignores the gold cost. True Necro's SLAs do not.

If you're going into True Necromancer for the SLA abilities, you deserve what you get.

The True Necromancer is the single worst prestige class ever concocted by WoTC (imo). I say this with complete honesty and bluntness. Not only are it's Class features entirely not worth it, it's entire gimmick is trash and it's requirements are completely unnecessary as whole. Making it a direct rip of the Mystic Theurge would have been completely valid, however WoTC decided, in their infinite wisdom, to make Necromancy even MORE ridiculous by making this little abomination of a class.

Having said all of this, I will now offer some advice for a build that I've been tinkering around with for the class.

Human
Cleric (Divine Magician)1 / Wizard (Doesn't matter)2 / Mystic Theurge3 / True Necromancer14

This build uses two early entry tricks that are entirely RAW debatable to the point where I am 100% sure someone will ride me on it (PM me if you have any questions). It also uses a single Flaw which will most likely be Noncombatant considering this has Divine Spellcasting.

F: Divine Metamagic
1: Heighten Spell
3: Alternate Spell Source

At 6th level your next feat HAS to be Spell Focus: Necromancy otherwise you cannot possibly qualify and even with this you can only cast 8th level Divine and just barely get 9th level Arcane spells.

Sure, you can command a WHOLE lot of Undead, but honestly? If you wanted to have a WHOLE lot of Undead, you would have been a Pale Master with their Five-Finger Death Punch of Minionmancy.

So in a way, the True Necromancer isn't even half good at what it is supposed to do (Necromancy and Minionmancy) than what a class specialized (or hell, even taking straight levels in Mystic Theurge) would have.