Planescape: torment

[Soniku]

Well, I have heard a lot about this and plan to get it...

But how much should I pay for it? The cheapest I can find it for (non e-bay, in the UK) is about £26 (about 35$ I beleve) which seems a whole lot for a game from 1999.

Anyone got advice on a good price or where to get it?

And this thread, as soon as I have been answerd, can turn into a Torment discussion thead :smallsmile:

[Cubey]

Well, I'm unsure about other countries, but here in Poland old games are often re-released in very cheap "golden classics" series. This is the case for Planescape too - I can get it for 20 ZL, which is about 5$. I hope it's a common practice in other countries too - or isn't it?

[Soniku]

I do see it in "white label" edition which usually sells old games cheap. Unfortunately It's £26 or so :smalleek: And I am lacking on money right now, what with christmas presents to be got for everyone.

[Maxymiuk]

Well, I'm unsure about other countries, but here in Poland old games are often re-released in very cheap "golden classics" series. This is the case for Planescape too - I can get it for 20 ZL, which is about 5$. I hope it's a common practice in other countries too - or isn't it?

Where?! I asked around gaming shops, but I've been told that Planescape isn't available anymore - hasn't been for half a year or so.

[Yuki Akuma]

Planescape is out of print. It won't be sold under a "gold classics" lable. The best you can hope for is eBay, or that £26 one.

It's been out of print for years, too, not just half a year.

[Soniku]

Heh, guess I'm lucky to have snagged it from e-bay at £19 then :smallcool:

The next one within £20 was a week away :smalleek:

[Jothki]

I think Gametap has it now.

[Om]

Forget Christmas; sell your family if you need to.... just play this game. It is the best cRPG I've ever played and the quality of the writing/dialogue/atmosphere/story/everything is simply staggering. I can't praise this game enough.

[Jerthanis]

Off topic from the whole, "How to aquire it" area, but still about Planescape... how do you unlock doors? I swear, I can't figure out how to get out of the very first area! I've tried putting the key in the quickbar and using it from there, I've tried giving it to the skull thing, I've tried all sorts of things and I can't figure it out. Any tips?

[Tom_Violence]

Off topic from the whole, "How to aquire it" area, but still about Planescape... how do you unlock doors? I swear, I can't figure out how to get out of the very first area! I've tried putting the key in the quickbar and using it from there, I've tried giving it to the skull thing, I've tried all sorts of things and I can't figure it out. Any tips?

I thought that just having the right ket in your inventory was enough. Maybe you're trying to open the wrong door? Or maybe you can just bash it.

[Om]

Off topic from the whole, "How to aquire it" area, but still about Planescape... how do you unlock doors? I swear, I can't figure out how to get out of the very first area! I've tried putting the key in the quickbar and using it from there, I've tried giving it to the skull thing, I've tried all sorts of things and I can't figure it out. Any tips?There are different keys for different doors :smallwink:

[DeathQuaker]

Very, very good game. Best CRPG I ever played, hands down. Very, very hard to find. I'd wish someone'd get the rights to it and publish a... er.... 7th anniversary edition?

[Soniku]

I got it, very fun :smallwink: but I think I found a bug mabey someone could solve?

at the bit where you need to knock down the two houses for the face in the alley, I go up to them but get no option to knock them down (only "leave") dispite haveing a hammer and a prybar... I checked in the guide because I was pretty sure I was doing what I was supposed to and it didn't tell me any different... any suggestions?

Other than that great game so far, a little heavy on hack and slash for me but Annah and Morte are just awesome :smallbiggrin:

[Beleriphon]

[quote=Soniku;1588029
Other than that great game so far, a little heavy on hack and slash for me but Annah and Morte are just awesome :smallbiggrin:[/quote]

Boost intelligence, wisdom, and charisma. Doing so will reduce the amounts of hacking considerably. Still there is quite a bit given its a game based on D&D.

[Yuki Akuma]

I can only think of two battles you have to fight, and they're both bosses. All other battles you can either run from, win by talking, or win by sneaking and stealing the quest item.

You don't even have to fight the final boss if you don't want to.

Planescape: Torment is the exact opposite of a hack-and-slash if you play a character with high mental stats.

(I'm only talking about the main quest, by the way. There are some enemies you can't talk or steal to death in side quests like Rubikon.)

Although Rubikon is a satire on all those games that are nothing but running from room to room, killing things and taking their stuff.

[The Prince of Cats]

"Dum zomfies..."

The best bit of Planescape for me was when I learned that certain puzzles are best solved by dying. That said, I was a little too good at dying, so I haven't got very far...

[Om]

I got it, very fun :smallwink: but I think I found a bug mabey someone could solve?

at the bit where you need to knock down the two houses for the face in the alley, I go up to them but get no option to knock them down (only "leave") dispite haveing a hammer and a prybar... I checked in the guide because I was pretty sure I was doing what I was supposed to and it didn't tell me any different... any suggestions?
I can't see what you're doing wrong there. You have the right items... are you trying the right places?

There are three places of interest on that map – the house where dabus is trapped and the two "repair locations". Both of the latter much be fixed, one with the hammer and one with the crowbar, and, IIRC, they look like wooden lattices. When you've fixed them return to the Ally

As for hack n slash, its there if you look for it but can be avoided. Or simply take the time to talk to people and follow the more cerebral paths to competition. The big dumb fighter build is probably the most boring way to play the game... though sky high INT is not required to get most of the conversation choices.

[Orcus]

use google to find a place to buy it
i got mine for only 10£

[Yuki Akuma]

For the interested, the two battles you have to fight are Ravel and Trias.

The best build for talking your way out of things is mid-to-high Intelligence and Wisdom, and high Charisma. Dexterity can help with a few 'dialogue' actions, as well, but Strength and Constitution are pretty much useless outside of combat.

My favourite class to play is the Mage, as I get a use out of having high Intelligence. Wisdom is useful for all classes, as it boosts the Nameless One's experience and helps you remember past lives.

[Soniku]

Thanks guys, I was going for a more combat focused build because all the games I have played so far don't use stats for dialouge choices, guess I'll remake :smallbiggrin:

And about the bit I couldn't do... I know where the points are, I have even read my stratergy guide for the right points. I can talk to them (the cursor says ? and I enter dialogue mode) but only get the option "leave". I have tried this with the items equipped, unequipped and everything else I could think of because some games have glitches like that. I also have all the patches (includeing the fan patch) so I'm not sure whats going on.

[neriana]

Take as much wisdom as you possibly can. Wisdom, charisma and intelligence are the only three stats that really matter.

[Archonic Energy]

it's not as if dying is a problem...

[DeathQuaker]

Thanks guys, I was going for a more combat focused build because all the games I have played so far don't use stats for dialouge choices, guess I'll remake :smallbiggrin:

The best RPGs always take into account mental and social stats. Keep that in mind when you're looking for games.

Another thing: The Nameless One gets to increase stats when he levels, PLUS if he accomplishes certain quests or tasks he can also increase his stats even more.

The best tactic, IMHO, is to start with a high Wisdom, either a high Int or Cha, and a moderately decent Con. Wis causes you to level up faster and gain memories, which are often the source of more stat boosts. That and the other stats will often lead to dialogue options giving you good access to more quests, and the decent Con will allow you to survive fights a little more so you're not dying ALL the time (but if you die, no big deal. That's the lovely thing about this game), and if it's high enough, it boosts regeneration.

Then when you play the game, you should find enough stat boosts to have exceptional Wis, Int, and Cha, but also get your physical stats buffed out as well. Usually by the end of the game, if you play well, you have near 18s in almost all stats, if not higher (Wis should be at least a 22 by end game). BUT in order to accomplish this, starting with a high Wis is essential.



And about the bit I couldn't do... I know where the points are, I have even read my stratergy guide for the right points. I can talk to them (the cursor says ? and I enter dialogue mode) but only get the option "leave". I have tried this with the items equipped, unequipped and everything else I could think of because some games have glitches like that. I also have all the patches (includeing the fan patch) so I'm not sure whats going on.

It's been AGES since I have played, but can't you press the Tab or Alt key to highlight usable areas? You might be able to use that to find the area where you need to click, with the prybar in hand.

[Archonic Energy]

so DQ should i start with the Annah worshiping now?

[DeathQuaker]

so DQ should i start with the Annah worshiping now?

Yes! Worship her! Bow at the mighty tailed one's feet!

*grabs and huggles Annah, whilst deftly dodging punch-dagger blades*

[DeathQuaker]

Okay, I'm back with actually useful information and not just tiefling-related drool:

Apparently you can play Planescape: Torment on Gametap:

http://www.gametap.com/home/gameDetails/000151550

I don't know much about this site, but other gamers online seem to recommend it, take that as you will. I'd probably research a bit before I signed up, but at least there's one place where it's accessible for a reasonable price.

[Archonic Energy]

i need to get it running at a higher res...

and without the memory leak... (how can a 7 year old game run ssoo sslloowwllyy on a PC which has no problems with Oblivion?!)

and without the crashes...

i love this game.

[Yuki Akuma]

i need to get it running at a higher res...

and without the memory leak...

and without the crashes...

i love this game.

What? My old computer played the 4-disc version flawlessly. And it's about eight years old at this point.

You need a better computer if you can't play Torment!

[Archonic Energy]

What? My old computer played the 4-disc version flawlessly. And it's about eight years old at this point.

You need a better computer if you can't play Torment!

AMD 64x2 3800+
2Gb of Ram
NVidia Geforce Go 7800 256 DDR2

i think it SHOULD run it OK.

[Yuki Akuma]

AMD 64x2 3800+
2Gb of Ram
NVidia Geforce Go 7800 256 DDR2

i think it SHOULD run it OK.

There's something wrong with the software somewhere in your machine.

[Archonic Energy]

There's something wrong with the software somewhere in your machine.
that wouldn't suprise me.

gorram windows XP

[Varen_Tai]

Actually, the unpatched version has a memory leak problem. Caused all kinds of headaches for me before I discovered the patch. If you've already patched, then I can't help ya. :)

[Archonic Energy]

both the offical 1.1 patch and the user created patch fixing certain Infinte XP/GP loops

it pauses every 3-4 seconds for about 1-2 second. but it runs normally when it is running

[DeathQuaker]

Archonic, two things:

1. If you have the 2 disc version, don't patch the game. That version's already patched, and patching it causes problems.

2. If you have the 4 disc version, I'd just try uninstalling the game and then reinstall it, plus the patches, and start a new game. It's a pain, but it might fix it. If you're patched you shouldn't be having memory leak problems, so all I can think is the installation of the game or the patch got goofy somewhere.

3. Worship Annah!

[Archonic Energy]

i have the "Ye olde" 4 disk version

i suppose i could reinstall i'm not even out of the mortuary yet....

*Draws Rune Of Torment on a scrap of flesh*

What... just because TNO Lost his memory doesn't mean i have!

[Om]

gorram windows XPI've had it running before on XP fine. There was the old IE problem of characters running backwards but a few tweaks to the graphic options fixed that.

[Talanic]

Endure. In enduring, grow strong.

*grin*

What's your favorite character? IMO none of the side characters quite beat Dak'kon for depth.

[Yuki Akuma]

I don't know, Morte's pretty deep. He just doesn't have a whole mythology to read through.

Ignus has quite a good backstory, too, as does Vailor. Really, only the NPCs touched by the Nameless One in the past interested me.

Except Grace, I didn't like her. Why was her alignment Lawful Neutral when she's obviously Lawful Good, anyway?

And I must admit I have a soft spot for Nordom.

"Backwards Modron = Nordom?"

[Om]

Ignus has quite a good backstory, tooThe story of Ignus, as told by Reekwind, is easily one of the most impressive pieces of writing that I've ever seen in a computer game.

"Ignus came to the Alley that was to be the Alley of Angles, and the fire in his eyes, the fire in his heart, both he let out."

[DeathQuaker]

What's your favorite character?

Guess.

(Yeh like ma wee tail? I'll wag it at yeh!)


IMO none of the side characters quite beat Dak'kon for depth.

He's certainly got depth in terms of philosophy. I found him hard to relate to though. (OTOH, I loved him enough to be delighted in hearing him mentioned in NWN2 by one of his fellow Zerth.)


Except Grace, I didn't like her. Why was her alignment Lawful Neutral when she's obviously Lawful Good, anyway?

Fluffy reason: she's striving towards good. She's had to build herself up from an evil nature and, while on her way toward good, hasn't quite made it yet. So the "neutral" is really just a marker of how far she's come but that she has a little way to go yet.

Meta reason: I think most of the companions they tried to make morally neutral, so the Nameless One would be justified in taking them as his companions, and they feel comfortable with him, regardless of whether he was taking a good or evil path. This doesn't explain why Morte is Chaotic Good though (but he's the only character who isn't morally neutral), especially since he insists on sticking with you regardless of your actions.

Really, I'd probably make Morte CN, Grace LG, and maybe Ignus CE, and leave everyone else as is. You'd still have a diversity of character alignments and it would suit the characters (and the Nameless One's likely choices of companions) fine, I think.

[Shikton]

Favourite character? Ignus! A floating, burning man whose spells are all fire based? MASSACRE!

[Archonic Energy]

I only recently found out that Nordom's voice Actor is Homer.

oh and i started a new game and all the problems disappeared...

me thinks i should have waited for the patch to download BEFORE starting the game.

as for Favorite Char... i'm thinking Ravel "What can change the Nature of a man?"

for Party Members it has to be annah. gotta love the accent... and maybe the lack of clothing helps too. "Watch The Leather"

[Gyrfalcon]

Morte or one of the others starts questioning her about the stategically-placed cuts in her leather leotard... it's pretty funny. :smallbiggrin:

[Yuki Akuma]

Morte or one of the others starts questioning her about the stategically-placed cuts in her leather leotard... it's pretty funny. :smallbiggrin:

...I've never gotten that random banter, and I've gotten most of the other ones...

[DeathQuaker]

Morte or one of the others starts questioning her about the stategically-placed cuts in her leather leotard... it's pretty funny. :smallbiggrin:

Morte's not the one questioning the dress...



:smallfurious: Annah: “Sweet sufferin’ *pike*...” Annah snarls. “Yeh there! We’ll be having no more o’ this waiting, so yeh’d better...”

:smallmad: Goncalves: The man glances up from his work and seems to see Annah for the first time. Tutting softly, he shakes his head. “Lass, what in the maddening winds of Pandemonium has *possessed* you to dress in such a way?”

:smallconfused: Annah: Annah looks surprised. “Eh?” Her surprise quickly falls into a frown. “What d’yeh *mean*?”

:smallyuk: Goncalves: He gestures at Annah’s outfit. “The leather, miss. The sheer impracticality of it. The emphasis on the bust-line, especially the *oh-so-convenient* cross-slash across the bodice. Your outfit was *obviously* designed to placate someone’s hormonal urges rather than to keep you comfortable. Even if you are trying to *make* a statement against authority and decorum like you tieflings tend to do, the message is really harming you in the long run...”

:smallwink: Morte: Morte floats close and whispers, “Not me. I can deal. Eh? Chief? Wink-wink, nudge-nudge...”

:smallyuk: Goncalves: Goncalves continues to scold Annah. “I mean really, you look more ready for a session at the Festhall than...” He frowns. “By the way, you aren’t a Sensate, are you?”

:smallconfused: Annah: Annah seems confused. “Nay. Nay, I’m not a Sensate...”

:smallannoyed: Goncalves: The tailor nods. “I don’t think so. Not at all. Why don’t you let me attire you in something else a little more modest...”

:smalleek: Morte: Horrified, Morte leaps into the fray. “No!!! Man, are you *mad?!* That’s barmy talk!”


IIRC, she's supposed to have "ventilated" clothes so when she smoulders due to excitement, the heat can escape easily. (Why we need an excuse for what I've seen referred to as "nerd wank" I'm not sure... :smalltongue: )

Honestly, as much as I love her, she could do at least with a somewhat more aesthetically pleasing outfit, if not more modest, per se. Would've been cool if the armor you bought from Goncalves actually did cover her up more. (Though the fact that one of them is called "Jerkin of the Brazen Rogue" shows what he thinks of it all, I guess.)

Glad you got the leak issues fixed, AE.

[Archonic Energy]

Ahh it feels good to be back in Sigil.

now to become practiced in the art...

[Om]

Honestly, as much as I love her, she could do at least with a somewhat more aesthetically pleasing outfit, if not more modest, per se.Well I'm with Morte on this one :smalltongue:

Goncalves, is he that tailor in the Clerk's Ward?

[DeathQuaker]

Well I'm with Morte on this one :smalltongue:


You misunderstood me, or I misstated. I'm cool with the well-ventilated outfit, I just think the actual design is not particularly attractive. The body's nice, the clothes aren't. I think _actually_ you could make her sexier with a better designed outfit--in fact, even if it showed less skin. Sometimes what you don't see is more intriguing, if you do it right.

(What? I'm a girl. I pay attention to clothes.)


Goncalves, is he that tailor in the Clerk's Ward?
Yes.

[Shikton]

Ahh it feels good to be back in Sigil.

now to become practiced in the art...


Darn right. Magic in this game kicks much behind! SHAZAAM! Not to mention the spell effects are great. Elysium's Tears anyone?

And I agree, Anna could have had on some better clothing. Pink tutu 4 teh win.

[warbacon]

Man, I need to actually play this game some more. I have it installed and everything but just haven't gotten into it lately. What I have played has been amazing in terms of immersion and sheer quality of RPG-ness. Not to mention that I love the 2nd ed. rules. Sadly, more modern games have made me spoiled in terms of interface design, and I'd say that's the failing point of Planescape: Torment for me.


(What? I'm a girl. I pay attention to clothes.)

Actually I'd have to agree with your whole argument here. Yes, I'm male. No, I'm not flamboyantly gay.

There's a general idiocy as to how your character looks in RPGs; most armor either looks ridiculous or entirely impractical. e.g. WoW -- how many variations on "thick brightly colored padded armor with big gaping holes in critical regions and gigantic shoulderpads with spikes" can you have? And this is doubly true for female characters -- how the hell can that slinky strap of leather that I can barely call a bra give me +4 AC? hrmm?

Now, this is not to say that I don't like girls in slinky leather -- don't get me wrong, guys, but seriously we need to be a little more realistic here. Everquest II and Oblivion are two games that stand out in my head for having good depictions of armor that's both good looking and somewhat realistic, barring that silly green glass armor -- how does that not break off into your eye? But more importantly, armor that's supposed to cover, covers, and fancy dress that's supposed to reveal, reveals.

Pardon the off-topic post. Please, just go about your business.

[Tom_Violence]

Its so rare that you get the chance to see someone 'in' themselves these days.

[Vreejack]

What a strange coincidence. I have been playing this again for a couple of days now and was searching for how to find Modron. He's a character I have never found, though I beat the "evil wizard" in the Rubikon easily enough.

SOme notes: Annah points out that she doesn't need ventilation since as a fiend she does not feel unpleasant changes in temperature.

Also, Morte will stay with TNO no matter what his alignment because Morte feels guilty for what he did to TNO.

This time around I made TNO a mage, so I just used Ignus to provide me with the four spells and then killed him.

I installed a few extra goodies, like the missing candlestick quest. You can also buy the "Sword of Wh'ynn" and a "Cheat book" from the curiosity shop, though I never bothered with she sword (Is there any point to wining the game? The point is to play it) and the book seems to do nothing. I was just curious.

The Platter patch is excellent, fixing a lot of stupidity in the game, though I still noticed a lot of spelling errors and iffy dialog logic but nothing compared to past versions. A lot of subtle errors were fixed that actually make the game more difficult, as dozens of stat checks were being ignored due to syntax errors in the scripting. Doh!:smalleek:

Comparing it to the Baldur's Gate series, I think the overall story is better but the details of the dialog are often...silly. I offer the one example of one of the Godsman engineers telling me that she intends to destroy the secret weapon they are working on. You are given no chance to respond to this amazing announcement. No "Gee, I think the factor would like to hear about this." So while the amount of dialog in the game is huge, it is still somewhat lacking.

Well, back to looking for the missing modron PC

[Yuki Akuma]

Nordom can be foundon the hardest level of Rubikon. You always enter his room from the right, so just enter every 'left' exit you can. Don't reset the dungeon, because you'll have to start all over again.

I find it helpful to draw a map, personally.

[Sholos]

Warbacon, the glass armor doesn't break off into you because it's not exactly glass. It just looks like it.

And now, back to the original topic.

[Platinum_Mongoose]

Mmmm... Torment. Easily the best game ever. The only others that come close are the first three Monkey Island games (and they do come pretty darn close).
Dak'kon is awesome. So are Morte and Annah. The other characters are good, too, but those three are the best. Nordom is always good for a laugh, too.
I'm in Curst right now, on my first run through. I'm taking it slowly, savoring every detail. It's such a great story. Like playing a really good book.

[Archonic Energy]

Mmmm... Torment. Easily the best game ever. The only others that come close are the first three Monkey Island games (and they do come pretty darn close).
Dak'kon is awesome. So are Morte and Annah. The other characters are good, too, but those three are the best. Nordom is always good for a laugh, too.
I'm in Curst right now, on my first run through. I'm taking it slowly, savoring every detail. It's such a great story. Like playing a really good book.

You'll miss something.

even after countless run throughs i keep discovering things.

i haven't sold a Party member into slavery yet...

or found the living chainsaw. (Viahlator or something)

However i found Nordom on my first run through

[Ink]

I too really enjoyed this game. I played it quite a few years ago but it still stands out in my mind. The setting is unique, rich, and quirky, and the storyline and subplots make up for what it lacks in game and battle mechanics. Aside from the Nameless One my favourite character is Dak'kon, the bits where the Nameless One teaches him about his faith were great. But really, all the characters were brilliant, Morte, Grace, Annah, and even NPCs like Ravel and Fhjull. I can't think of any other RPG that comes close to having such a bizarre and interesting collection of characters.

[Morty]

You'll miss something.

even after countless run throughs i keep discovering things.

i haven't sold a Party member into slavery yet...

or found the living chainsaw. (Viahlator or something)

However i found Nordom on my first run through

Agreed. I've played Torment two times and it occurs that there are still many things i just haven't discovered.
As for game itself... it's just one of the best cRPGs and one of the best games ever. Probably only cRPG when investing in INT was necessary for someone else than wizard. And number of the possible endings was just great. Only thing that was rather bad in Torment was Mordon labirynt- boring, tiring location. Episode in Curst was a bit worse than rest, but still good. Now I'm looking forward to play it in english instead of my native language...

[Yuki Akuma]

Only thing that was rather bad in Torment was Mordon labirynt- boring, tiring location.

Psst! That was the point!

[Morty]

Psst! That was the point!

I know that was the point:smallwink: , but walking through that labirynt to find the Nordom was quite frustrating anyway- I'd get lost if I wasn't making a map. Whole location was nice joke from dungeon crawl though, so I guess it wasn't so bad after all.

[Archonic Energy]

and it was an infinate XP loop...

[Yuki Akuma]

and it was an infinate XP loop...

...

What?

[Matthew]

Actually, I seem to recall something like that. It's been a long time, but I think you could visit the maze as many times as you liked and gain experience that way. There was definitely an infinite gold loop somewhere else where you could sell something for more than you then bought it back.

[Yuki Akuma]

..Er. Well, yes, you could visit Rubikon as often as you liked (while in Sigil, anyway), but you could also just go down to the catacombs and harvest experience that way.

It's no different than returning to a dungeon in any RPG that respawns monsters.

[Matthew]

It's been a long time since I last played...

[Om]

Meh. I often skipped the Rubikon and Nordom. It was boring but you could skip it.

There were a couple of infinite gold/xp loops in the original game. That's hardly uncommon for an RPG though and the patch closed most of them.

[Varen_Tai]

I didn't play the Rubikon for Nordom, I played to get that 7th level spell only received from the Modron Wizard. I just loved the spell cinematics. :) Though I would often grab Nordom, do the nifty talk sequences that got me cool spells and items, and then dropped him.

[Yuki Akuma]

Anyone who purposefully missed out on getting Nordom missed out on the most brain-achingly broken spell in the game.

It doubles your actions. That is, whenever you do something, it happens twice. If you cast Celestial Host, it gets repeated. Mechanus Cannon? Repeated. Abysal Fury? Rune of Torment? You get the idea.

It's not even a very high level spell.

[Archonic Energy]

a double barrel Mech cannon eh?...

TTO here i come

[Morty]

Anyone who purposefully missed out on getting Nordom missed out on the most brain-achingly broken spell in the game.

It doubles your actions. That is, whenever you do something, it happens twice. If you cast Celestial Host, it gets repeated. Mechanus Cannon? Repeated. Abysal Fury? Rune of Torment? You get the idea.

It's not even a very high level spell.

What was the name of that spell? I've never had Nodrom in team and never defeated that spooky wizard...

[Tom_Violence]

I believe Mechanus Cannon was the spell in Rubikon. I also agree that the catacombs in the (Clerks?) Ward is a better way of getting XP, provided you're lucky enough to run into Glabrezu. I also agree that Rubikon was a pain, because I know that even if you're poking fun at a convention, that doesn't actually excuse you from using it. Thankfully I never ever got to a stage in that game where I figured I needed more XP.

[Xaos_Bob]

Twiddling back in time to the original topic, Soniku, did you ever find a copy of PS:T for a reasonable price (or go to GameTap)?

And for a question that never got answered (that I saw, anyway), Jerthanis' question about the Alley of Lingering Sighs. This was a problem that plagued me no end the first time I went through it, and my problem was--I had the WRONG KIND of hammer.

You need, specifically, the work hammer, either from the Mortuary or from the dead dabus. I had sold the thing and spent a great deal of time trying to find/procure every other sodding hammer I'd seen, not realizing my mistake.

Of course, you likely already figured that out by now...

[warbacon]

If the game is out of print there's always the internet. You can find this game in a number of places, and although it's less-than-legal I would think that things you just can't get anymore are safe territory.

Hope I didn't tread on any forum relugations my mentioning the possibility :smalleek:

[Varen_Tai]

It is *always* on sale on eBay for a decent price. Fully legal, there, plus you get the rulebook. Hint for newbies - make sure you let Morte talk to the hookers in the Hive and the cranky shopkeepers in the Upper Ward...

[Archonic Energy]

Alright... new taunts

ehm sorry couldn't resist.

I feel stronger

[Yuki Akuma]

Experience has increased my skills.

Well duh...

[Mozric]

[Dak'kon]In knowing the teachings of Zerthmon I have become stronger.[/Dak'kon]

Damn, I love that game. Yeah Dak'kon!

I always play a Mage. The spells are just plain great.

[Ink]

The voices in that game are particularly good too. And so is the music. Apparently they got some famous names to do the voiceovers.

Oh great, another trip to the mortuary...

[kaairn]

yup, there were quite a few famous people who did voices for the game, one that rolls off the top of my head is John DeLancie (who is well known as Q in star trek-next gen and it's off shoots) doing the voice of the Deva called Trias. Another one would be Homer Simps... oops I mean Dan Castellaneta :smalltongue:

[DeathQuaker]

Yeah, Dan Castellaneta does Nordom.
Scottish song siren Sheena Easton does Annah.
Rob Paulsen, who did Morte, did some big voice work for Warner Brothers, like Buster Bunny and Yakko Warner. He might have also been on the Simpsons at some point

Not a celebrity, but Jennifer Hale, who did Grace's voice, has done a lot of other great video game voiceover work.

And back to quotes and Annah...

"I think I've learned some new tricks."
"Like a shadow I am."
"Ah'm nawt that sorta girl."
"Hey! Watch the leather!"
"Next stop, Clerk's Ward, otherwise known as 'Wanker City.'"

[Tom_Violence]

And back to quotes and Annah...

"I think I've learned some new tricks."
"Like a shadow I am."
"Ah'm nawt that sorta girl."
"Hey! Watch the leather!"
"Next stop, Clerk's Ward, otherwise known as 'Wanker City.'"

You missed the best one - her 'bash' line.

[DeathQuaker]

You missed the best one - her 'bash' line.

Can't remember which one that was.

"Time to kick some back."
"If I were you, I'd be prepared to pick up yer teeth."

Or was it another one?

[Tom_Violence]

Hehe, twas another one. She gives a little tut and says something along the lines of "I don't know me own strength". For some odd reason it made me laugh my arse off when I first heard it.

[Archonic Energy]

did you know we missed TNO's 7th birthday on the 12th?

*congratulates PS:T on 7 years of bliss*

[Varen_Tai]

did you know we missed TNO's 7th birthday on the 12th?

*congratulates PS:T on 7 years of bliss*

Really? Wow, I need to record that somewhere... hang on...

*Updated my journal*

:smallbiggrin:

[Archonic Energy]

Really? Wow, I need to record that somewhere... hang on...

*Updated my journal*

:smallbiggrin:

*Draws out the blade of the immortal*

Don't make ME use THIS on you BROKEN one.

[Wraithcat]

Man how I loved that game.
The spell cinematics where perfect.
And I guess I also fell in love with Annah :smallsmile:
You just have to love the way she's protective of you.
Another great thing is whem ypu find out how your past you used all the others, like with Dak'hon's circle or Morte.Just what was the Rubikon quest, I don't seem to recall it.
And how many of you managed to talk with the original TNO?And does anyone remember the true name? I have forgotten it.:smallfrown:




p.s. , could anyone draw an avatar of her?

[Ink]

Her? You mean Annah? I made a Nameless One avatar some time ago. I might get around to drawing Grace or Annah if I have the time. There seem to be plenty of Annah lovers here. While I also really like Annah, I find that she has less depth as a character than Dak'kon, Morte, Grace, or Ignus.

The Rubikon Cube is the little dungeon dimension where you find Nordom, and The Nameless One's true name is never revealed in the game, I believe.

[Morty]

I saw an Annah avatar on this board once. I totally don't remember whom avatar it was, though.
I liked Annah too, mosty because I liked all NPCs from Torment. Vhalior too, though he was really troublesome, so I decided to leave him. Otherwise, I would have to fight with Trias.
BTW, does someone know what plane exists only 'hypotetical'? I found that question in one quiz, and I have no clue.

[Mike_Lemmer]

Wouldn't that be a trick question? After all, if it's a hypothetical plane, people believe it should exist. And if enough people believe in it, it exists.

[ampcptlogic]

Nordom's Skills Have Increased

[Yuki Akuma]

Nordom's Skills Have Increased

"Nordom Has Improved!".

[ampcptlogic]

You're right, Y_A. I haven't played in a while. I can't even find the disks, more's the pity. It's a weird game, but I love it.

[Archonic Energy]

I saw an Annah avatar on this board once. I totally don't remember whom avatar it was, though.

Death Quaker would be ashamed... well maybe not.

[DeathQuaker]

Death Quaker would be ashamed... well maybe not.

Not ashamed... but wow, that avvie was popular. Maybe I should switch back to it. I'd like to clean it up a little though. Her tail needs work, among other things.

http://www.deathquaker.org/images/annah.gif

I've also made another one but it's not uploaded and on the wrong computer at the mo. But if Wraithcat is interested I can upload it.

And for those wanting something less stick-like:

http://www.deathquaker.org/images/Annah_Attack.gif

[kaairn]

*cheers for Annah, the sexiest scottish tiefling in existance*:smallbiggrin:

[DeathQuaker]

*cheers for Annah, the sexiest scottish tiefling in existance*:smallbiggrin:

Huzzah!!!

But wait.... how many other Scottish tieflings are there? :smallconfused:

[Mike_Lemmer]

Depends how many tiefling dwarves there are.

[Matthew]

"Not the tail!"

[Om]

Depends how many tiefling dwarves there are.Good point. I wonder who first decided that all bearded dwarves would speak with a thick highlands accent :smallconfused:

[Matthew]

The authors of Dragonlance? Not sure. They don't in The Hobbit or The Lord of the Rings, that's for sure...

[Wraithcat]

can i use one of them?
The drawn one is great, but i prefer the second one.......onyone seen it in the leprechaun version? http://infinitum.planetdiablo.gamespy.com/anims-annahleprechaun.php

[DeathQuaker]

Looks like you found one, but if you want to use the attacking avvie, feel free. Please save it and host it on your own server if you don't mind.

I'm doing another stick figure one and I'll post when that one's done. The other one is one I've used before for myself so I'd kinda like to keep it. :smallsmile:

PS: Oh yeah, and the leprechaun one is very amusing. I also like the Morte Easter Egg, but that one is somehow less sexy. :wink*

[DeathQuaker]

Good point. I wonder who first decided that all bearded dwarves would speak with a thick highlands accent :smallconfused:

It especially doesn't make any sense since dwarves original come from Nordic/Germanic mythology, not Celtic.

[Ink]

Neato work, DQ.

This thread also made me feel like making an Annah avatar.
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i244/Ink_avatars/annah.gif

And here is everyone's favourite talking skull. And some guy.
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i244/Ink_avatars/namelessone.gif

Ahh so many great memories. I really have to dig up those old discs again.

[Archonic Energy]

wow. Ink..

just WOW.

like the scar...

"i regret enslaving Dak'Kon"
or words to that effect

[kaairn]

http://uk.geocities.com/[email protected]/annah-namelessone.gif

my own addition to the art fest :biggrin:

base figures by -apitchou (http://www.apitchou.com/api.htm)

[DeathQuaker]

oooh. purty arts.

Ink, love Stick TNO. Nice touch with the Mark of Torment. You should do one where he's facing the other direction so we can read his back. :smallwink:

Why is Morte glowing?

[Archonic Energy]

oooh. purty arts.

Ink, love Stick TNO. Nice touch with the Mark of Torment. You should do one where he's facing the other direction so we can read his back. :smallwink:
"no wonder i'm sore someone wrote a novle on my back"
Or words to that effect


Why is Morte glowing?
Because he's so cool.


P.S. DON'T TRUST THE SKULL.

[Mike_Lemmer]

I'd say it's a contrast thing, although Morte's background color was green if I remember right.

[Wraithcat]

No Morte, I want that you read everything.
But I Boss I read everything.
What about the last part.
What last part.
You know that part that reads Don't trust the skull.
Ohhh you mean that part.
:smallbiggrin:

[Ink]

Why's Morte glowing? Just to give him a kinda spooooky magical aura I guess. I drew it from memory so I couldn't really remember what colour his background was. Let's just call it artistic licence :smallwink:.

Y'know, if TNO wanted himself to be able to read his own message, why oh why would he put it on his back? Anywhere else, the chest, an arm, a leg, a hand would've worked.. but no, he had to go with the back. Also, with an ominous-sounding line like "PS: Don't trust the skull", why didn't Annah or Grace warn him? Was there ever an in-game explanation for either of these?

Edit: By the way if anyone would like to use the Annah or Nameless One avatars, just ask.

[Taladel]

I've been looking for this game for a looong time, and I finally got a copy!!

YAAY!

Dak'hon is prob'ly my favorite character right now. The story is so involving. It's incredibly deep.

[Morty]

Dak'hon is prob'ly my favorite character right now. The story is so involving. It's incredibly deep.
If you're playing a mage, high Wisdom will allow you to learn magic from Dak'kon- few nice spells, tons of XP and interesting dialogues.
BTW, I'd like to use TNO and Morte avatar, if noone claimed it yet.

[Shikton]

If you wanna see the face behind the voice of Annah, then go here: http://www.sheenaeaston.com/

[Yuki Akuma]

It's generally a good idea to always have a high Wisdom, no matter who you are.

Oh, and be sure to have a Charisma of at least 14 when you meet Stale Mary, so you can learn Stories-Bones-Tell...

[Morty]

It's generally a good idea to always have a high Wisdom, no matter who you are.
Yeah, Torment is first cRPG I saw where fighter used something else than strenght. I've had a hard time disposing stat points, as every stat except strenght(I've played mage) was useful. Not to mention strenght also can give dialogue options.

[Shikton]

I always start the game with:

STR: 9
CON: 11
DEX: 9
INT: 15
WIS: 18
CHA: 13

Then I go through the game as a mage. Works just fine, seeing as you have a few other front liners you get pretty early in the game to take hits and deal physical damage for you. Morte and Dak'kon, then eventually Mr. Big Axe Man Vhailor.

[Morty]

Heh, by the way, has anyone tried playing Torment as thief? Because I'm thinking about returning to that game, and I'd probably do that as thief.

Mr. Big Axe Man Vhailor
Mr. Big Trouble Man Vhalior. He's good frontliner, but you have to be careful or he'll use his axe on you. I left him in Tartar, as I wanted to leave Trias alive. Not to mention his reaction on what Skullpile(or whatever it named was in english) said about TNO.

[Shikton]

Heh, by the way, has anyone tried playing Torment as thief? Because I'm thinking about returning to that game, and I'd probably do that as thief.

I think that's the worst class in the game to play as, so you're up for a challenge. Mage is by far the best, and fighter is fun enough if you're a big badass brute with maxed out str, con and dex who crushes everything.:redcloak: But I love being a mage though. Awesome spells.

[Morty]

I think that's the worst class in the game to play as, so you're up for a challenge.
I know that. From what I've heard, it's because there aren't many tasks for thief in P:T, but I'll try. That'd mean I'd no longer need Annah... but she's still fighter/thief, so she'll probably stay.
Fighter and mage are equal in Torment, mage is maybe a tad stronger on high levels. It's just that intelligence is more useful out of combat that strengh.

[Yuki Akuma]

The good thing about fighter is that proficiencies stay with you when you change to a different class; if you get trained in daggers then switch to mage, you'll still be very good with daggers (although your THAC0 won't be as good).

Thief is good only for the one-liners from the backstab ability. :smallwink:

[Tengu]

But why no longer need Annah? There are exactly as many cool characters you can have in your party as there are party slots - the uncool ones are, of course, "muahaha I should actually be chaotic evil" Ignus and "I'd have a stick up my ass if I had an ass" Vhailor.

[Yuki Akuma]

Ignus is good! If you're not playing a mage, anyway.

And even if you are, it's worth the Decanter for those spells he can teach you. Then you can sell him into slavery or something.

(Yeah, my ideal party is Mage Nameless One, Morte, Dak'kon, Annah, Fall-From-Grace and Nordom, too.)

[Tengu]

He is good, mechanically. But as a character? I'd take any of the others, apart from Vhailor, over 100 Ignuses (Igni?). And I never used his spells.

[Shikton]

The good thing about fighter is that proficiencies stay with you when you change to a different class; if you get trained in daggers then switch to mage, you'll still be very good with daggers (although your THAC0 won't be as good).

Thief is good only for the one-liners from the backstab ability. :smallwink:

Except that you get funky bonuses if you stick with one class during the whole game, at level 7 and 12 to be more precise. Niiice stat bonuses. ^^ So it's more rewarding to stay a fighter if you start out as fighter.

[Yuki Akuma]

No, see, the best levelling strategy is to switch to your class of choice to get the bonuses, then switch to other classes (like fighter) to gain proficiency bonuses or whatever.

:smalltongue:

[Morty]

Great thing about Torment is, that there's actually a logical reason for which you gain XP and change classes- you've done all these things before, you just have to remember it again:smallwink:
I'm wondering if it'll be better to use daggers or punch-daggers(like Annah's) as thief.

[Yuki Akuma]

Don't daggers and punching daggers use the same proficiency anyway? Or do the punching daggers use fists?

Either way, it depends on which weapons you prefer, really. Annah can even use normal daggers if you want her to.

[Shikton]

All this talk of PS:T made me install it and play it again too. :P

[Varen_Tai]

I'm getting the itch myself...

[Shikton]

Scratch that itch then!

[Mike_Lemmer]

I'd have to go with TNO as a fighter here, just for technical reasons: the mage spells freeze my graphics card at the worst times.

[Yuki Akuma]

Edit the .ini file to remove the spell animations.

Back up the .ini file before attempting this.

[endoperez]

Heh, by the way, has anyone tried playing Torment as thief? Because I'm thinking about returning to that game, and I'd probably do that as thief.

On my only play-through, I was a thief. I had few levels of Fighter from trying to find a trainer in the beginning, but pure Thief after that. My favourite part of the game was going into the prison where Trias is kept, and STEALTHING through everything! I had to save often, and reload few times, but since you stay stealthy for a short while after doing something that'd make you visible (like picking pockets) you can pick the pockets of the guards, guess it's the last one that has the key, re-stealth, open the door, re-stealth, go on, etc. Then I walked over a pressure plate... and the prisoners were unleashed! So fun! The guards killed them all, of course. :smallbiggrin:

I had Annah stealthing with me during the whole trip, and whenever I had to kill some guards (or it was easier), she helped a lot. It was very, very fun. Of course, playing as a mage could be even more fun!

If I have played through the game once as a Charisma - Intelligence - physical stats guy, should I play the game through as a dumb fighter? I will, eventually, play through it with all mental-stats Wizard, but would a bumb character have funny discussions?

[DeathQuaker]

I know that. From what I've heard, it's because there aren't many tasks for thief in P:T, but I'll try. That'd mean I'd no longer need Annah... but she's still fighter/thief, so she'll probably stay.

From what I understand, if you go thief, any skill you train past 50% in you can then train Annah in, which gives her some bonuses and XP gain.

And then as Endoperez notes you both can walk around stealthing and sneak attacking the crap out of everything.

Yuki-Akuma: Punch-daggers are fist weapons, I believe.

[warbacon]

If I have played through the game once as a Charisma - Intelligence - physical stats guy, should I play the game through as a dumb fighter? I will, eventually, play through it with all mental-stats Wizard, but would a dumb character have funny discussions?

I know you lose out on dialogue options -- many XP-giving and stat-giving dialogue options -- but I don't know if you start talking like the proverbial Mentally Challenged Orc or not.

Not to mention, you're losing out on a lot of your memories if you have a low Wisdom. And I think the XP bonus for 25 WIS is something like 45% (edit: 35%), so that's a healthy chunk of XP.

[Shikton]

The XP bonus for 25 WIS is 35%. Wis, int and cha really are the most important stats, so I'd go for those even if I were to play a fighter. All those funky rewards you get for focusing on those stats is something you really don't want to lose in my opinion. But hey, if you wanna go a different route I'm not going to argue, you play the game your way. ^_^

[Archonic Energy]

i usually get to 23 wis.

and buy a tattoo...

[Tom_Violence]

If I have played through the game once as a Charisma - Intelligence - physical stats guy, should I play the game through as a dumb fighter? I will, eventually, play through it with all mental-stats Wizard, but would a dumb character have funny discussions?

I'm guessing you mean in the same way as Fallout and Arcanum did, right? As far as I know, there are no hidden gems of hilarious idiot banter in Planescape (at least not from the Nameless), but I could be wrong. Its never happened before, but I could be wrong.

[Yuki Akuma]

There are plenty of hidden gems of random banter from the Nameless One!

When he has a really low Intelligence and Wisdom, he becomes a gullible idiot (remember when Morte said something to the effect of "Hey, look, a whole crowd of talking skulls!"? If your Intelligence is really low, the only answer you can give is "Look for the crowd of talking skulls." :smallbiggrin:)

[Morty]

Goddammit...
it's second time I'm trying do find Nodrom and second time I can't. I've tried to go left all the time, but that doesn't seem to work. I'll try once more...
Yeah, playing thief is nice. You can steal stuff from shops instead of buying it, and backstab enemies like noone were backstabbed before.

[Tekar]

Goddammit...
it's second time I'm trying do find Nodrom and second time I can't. I've tried to go left all the time, but that doesn't seem to work. I'll try once more...
Yeah, playing thief is nice. You can steal stuff from shops instead of buying it, and backstab enemies like noone were backstabbed before.
Just draw a map, if you don't reset the dungeon then you're bound to find him. Do note that Nordom will only appear if you set the dungeon on the highest difficulty.

[Tom_Violence]

There are plenty of hidden gems of random banter from the Nameless One!

When he has a really low Intelligence and Wisdom, he becomes a gullible idiot (remember when Morte said something to the effect of "Hey, look, a whole crowd of talking skulls!"? If your Intelligence is really low, the only answer you can give is "Look for the crowd of talking skulls." :smallbiggrin:)

Really? I never knew - I never tried. Were they actually bits of chat that only came up when you had very low intelligence? Cos in the aforementioned games there were whole strands of brilliant banter that only came up if you played an idiot.

[Morty]

A little question here: I read once that you can 'program' Nodromto change his stats. Is that really possible? And if it is, how to do that? I can't find that option in the dialogue...

[Mike_Lemmer]

Yes you can. First, you need to establish yourself as his new master. Then, you need to ask him what you can do (or order him to do) as your new master. Finally, you need to give him the peptalk. The stats you can increase depends on your class at the time.

[DeathQuaker]

Yes you can. First, you need to establish yourself as his new master. Then, you need to ask him what you can do (or order him to do) as your new master. Finally, you need to give him the peptalk. The stats you can increase depends on your class at the time.

An important addendum:

In order to become his new master, you need to find him first, then find the wizard on the same level and defeat him with Nordom in your party.

I killed the wizard and then found Nordom, and couldn't get the upgrade dialogues.

Also, it's possible you need a certain Int or Wis to be able to get the right dialogues with him.

[Yuki Akuma]

It's a good thing that the wizard respawns, isn't it? Although I've never tried it that way...

[DeathQuaker]

I never got him to respawn, at least not in that particular game.

[Lord of the Helms]

Mmmh, Planescape, second-best CRPG ever created after the Baldur's Gate series. It's a bit of a tough comparison, though - Baldur's Gate is more of a "game", and lightyears ahead in terms of tactical combat, while I see Planescape more as an interactive novel. Love the extremely dense story and focus on dialogue, and it's constantly exciting to try and find out more about TNO. And I love all of the party members - Morte and Annah are probably my favorites, but then again, Dak'Kon, Grace, Nordom, Vhailor, Ignus... all of them, it's such a pity I have to leave two out.

It does have its weak sides - combat is mediocre at best and not anywhere near the tactical brilliance of BG, and as for balancing - Grace has an insanely powerful 3rd level spell that beats most everything else. But hell, combat is secondary anyways.


I never got him to respawn, at least not in that particular game.

Go to the control room and reset the dungeon :smallwink:

[DeathQuaker]

Grace has an insanely powerful 3rd level spell that beats most everything else.

yeah, but otherwise, she's not that effective in combat so it kinda makes up for it. :smalltongue:


But hell, combat is secondary anyways.

And that just proves how amazing the game is, when RPGers love it anyway.




Go to the control room and reset the dungeon :smallwink:

I did! I did! I swear! There was just no Nordom love for DeathQuaker. :smallfrown:

[Jothki]

Heh, by the way, has anyone tried playing Torment as thief? Because I'm thinking about returning to that game, and I'd probably do that as thief.

Mr. Big Trouble Man Vhalior. He's good frontliner, but you have to be careful or he'll use his axe on you. I left him in Tartar, as I wanted to leave Trias alive. Not to mention his reaction on what Skullpile(or whatever it named was in english) said about TNO.

You can just temporarily have him leave the party for Trias and the Pillar, and invite him back after you're done.

[Varen_Tai]

Or you could keep him in the party when facing Trias, give Trias mercy, and then let Vhailor kill him, giving you both tattoos and Trias's sword. :)

[Yuki Akuma]

I find it annoying that when Vhailor kills Trias, the only dialogue option you have is "Just shut up and die" (or something along those lines), even after you've shown him mercy.

[Ink]

You can't use Trias' sword unless you're lawful good right? I was never able to get Nameless One's alignment to lawful good.

[Yuki Akuma]

You can't use Trias' sword unless you're lawful good right? I was never able to get Nameless One's alignment to lawful good.

I always seem to drift towards Chaotic Good, personally, no matter what I do...

[Ink]

Yeah same here, although I got up to Neutral Good for a short period of time. Some of the littlest things like ribbing around with Morte can make you chaotic.

[DeathQuaker]

I played Lawful Good once, but I was pretty strict with myself about adhering to telling the truth, etc. I think I joined the Godsmen in that game; I think that helps.

[Yuki Akuma]

I played Lawful Good once, but I was pretty strict with myself about adhering to telling the truth, etc. I think I joined the Godsmen in that game; I think that helps.

I usually join the Godsmen, though, and my characters always end up as Chaotic Good.

Actually, I often join the Dustmen, too, then renounce them as soon as I get to the Lower Ward. >.> It's useful to be a member during the Catacombs.

[Om]

I remember joining the Anarchists once. I can't recall if I was just chaotic or chaotic non-good. Either way it was fun but a number of the quests were broken.

[Lord of the Helms]

I played it through and managed to be Lawful Good towards the end, though I was merely one single chaotic action away from Neutral Good and had been NG for a large portion of the game.


yeah, but otherwise, she's not that effective in combat so it kinda makes up for it. :smalltongue:


Are you kidding? Her healing is invaluable! :smallwink:

[Varen_Tai]

I have *reinstalled* Planescape:Torment, and in *knowing* Zerthimon's teachings, have *known* that I have not *known* them for many seasons. In *knowing* Zerthimon's teachings, I have *known* myself once again.

I just *know* that no one could ever do better than this game ever again. :)

[DeathQuaker]

Anyone wanna make a Torment based NWN2 module? :smallwink:

[Archonic Energy]

yes...

however i don't want to transcribe oner 100,000 words of text...

And there isn't a demilich model yet...
:xykon: Hey Chief...

oh and i suck at the NWN2 toolset...

are they major problems?

[Aidan305]

Do you mean something like this?

http://www.roguedao.com

[Charity]

No problem at all
*locks Archie in a cage with a PC that only has NWN2 toolset on it.*
*pokes a little water bottle through the bars*
Oh you'll need to run on that treadmill over there to charge the battery.
*waits*

[Varen_Tai]

Do you mean something like this?

http://www.roguedao.com

Almost, but not quite. *Know* TNO, no pain. No TNO, *know* pain.

[Om]

I just *know* that no one could ever do better than this game ever again. :)
Now that is a depressing thought. You're probably right though. Damn



Do you mean something like this?

http://www.roguedao.com (http://www.roguedao.com/)
Now that does look good. A pity I'll have to upgrade before being able to run NWN2

[DeathQuaker]

Do you mean something like this?

http://www.roguedao.com

Nope. That's just a game in the Planescape setting. Well, I shouldn't say "just." It looks like an excellent game. But it has nothing to do with Torment.

I was thinking more creating areas in the game, as they were in Torment, etc. Archonic's right though; to try and do an actual remake would probably require high levels of time and insanity just in recreating the conversations alone...

[Varen_Tai]

Surely someone somewhere HAS that kind of time and insanity level... we just need to find them....

Please? :)

[Archonic Energy]

Surely someone somewhere HAS that kind of time and insanity level... we just need to find them....

Please? :)

NO.

i have insanity but not time.

to do it well you'd have to...
Custom make 3/4 of the scenery & Tilesets.
Transcribe loads of text.
add new feats.
Transcribe even more text.
Add new races (Mordon, Skull, Mercykiller)
Don't forget to finish the text
are you forgetting it took nearly 3 years to translaet to some languages.
Steal the voice acting
Figure out how to make Ignus BURN...
Swappable body parts.
Change how Wis gives XP
Make Annah Cute.

and that's what just immediatly comes to hand!

although if anyone want's to prove me wrong...

[Delcan]

In every RPG I've ever played, there's been the problem of deciding which NPC characters to take with me. In most of them, my thought process goes something like this: "I'll take her, she's got hefty magic, and him, I need a good tank, and him, he's useful all around."

Torment is the only RPG ever to make me consider party structure in a different way. "I've gotta take Dak'kon; he's sworn himself to me and he's gotta see this through. And Morte's been with me from the beginning, I couldn't just leave him behind. And Annah's got... some sort of attachment to me. She's important too. Vhailor... I don't trust him." The talents and power of characters stopped mattering; what mattered was their importance to the story.

The moment I realized that this was how I was considering the party, I realized that this game was unmatched. A lot of things can beat Torment for gameplay, but none of them can beat it for its story or its characters.

And one more fanboy glee moment: there's nothing quite as strangely satsifying as meeting the final boss, and just talking to it. Figuring out what's driving it, what it really wants, and realizing that maybe, just maybe, you can end it all peacefully. You can opt to fight like you've done before, and throw yourself into one last brawl... or you can change the nature of a man.

[DeathQuaker]

NO.
to do it well you'd have to...
Custom make 3/4 of the scenery & Tilesets.


I was thinking the hardest part would be getting everything appropriately ring-shaped or triangular (unity of rings and rule of threes showing up in the game design).


Transcribe loads of text.

The Torment fan novel would at least help with that.


add new feats.

That shouldn't be too hard... and some of the abilities wouldn't require new feats, just adding spell-like abilities. Morte would just need the Taunt skill maxed out.


Transcribe even more text.

It occurred to me just thinking about it SOME of the text could be translated into animation. There was so much text in Torment because the anims were limited, so the actions had to be described rather than shown. But that just means lots of scripting rather than lots of dialogue writing.



Add new races (Mordon, Skull, Mercykiller)

I've been writing up tabletop versions of the "Baatorian Skull" and the particular brand of "Restless Spirit" that Vhaillor is (Mercykiller is a faction).

The hardest part of that would be the custom Modron design. Having a floating skull and a walking suit of armor by comparison can easily be done with what exists in the toolset.



Don't forget to finish the text

Yeah, but while you're at it, you need to make sure all the text gets added in.



are you forgetting it took nearly 3 years to translaet to some languages.

If I were thinking this WAS a possibility, I wouldn't even propose translation.



Steal the voice acting

That wouldn't be hard, but if you tried to work in lip synch, that might be.



Figure out how to make Ignus BURN...

That is actually easy. Set his appearance to "Fire Elemental" and you're done.


Swappable body parts.

Lots of custom items in general, which would have to come with new icons and everything.


Change how Wis gives XP

That's probably a factor I wouldn't bother incorporating. I'd just give more XP for solving puzzles that require a high wis.


Make Annah Cute.

Apart from the desperate need for custom armor and better hair choices, done: http://www.angelfire.com/id/deathquaker/images/nwnannah.jpg


and that's what just immediatly comes to hand!

although if anyone want's to prove me wrong...

If it were to be done, it would absolutely require a group effort. The people doing the Baldur's Gate remake include a lot of experienced scripters and modders. But yes, even then, quite an uphill road.

[Archonic Energy]

Apart from the desperate need for custom armor and better hair choices, done: http://www.angelfire.com/id/deathquaker/images/nwnannah.jpg


he he he
*pokes annah*
"pike off"
he he he

[0wca]

Planescape:Torment is a game that changed my life. I'm serious. The story is GENIOUS, it's totally fresh, it's not cliche like most RPGs but your this immortal dude who has to find out who he is. The story will pin your head to the screen. Guaranteed.

I think I finished the game about the 20th time now, and I'm playing it again, because it's so brilliant. And every time I finish it I find some new quest/aspect of the game.

From a rating of 0-5, I give it a 20.

:tongue:

[Maltrich]

I love this game. It's very satisfying to kill your own mortality with your bare hands, after leading your slaves/accomplices to their demise. (I was very much an evil mastermind the first time I played all the way through.)

The only thing that bothers me about the game is that, after playing it for a while, I decided "I think I'll try to kill everything that doesn't respawn and isn't invincible."

So I started a new game, was rude to Morte, removed him from my party, and killed him. Which, considering his damage reduction and AC, took forever. I then killed off the zombies and unlocked the door. And... it froze. Because if Morte is dead/not in the party, you can't have the conversation where Nameless One starts a new journal, and there is apparently no alternate event. So Nameless One just stands there.

I thought that was a fairly major oversight.

Oh, and the first time I started it I wanted to be a cleric, only to find that it is not, in fact, possible to become a cleric of Aoskar, despite the fact that the priest can clearly be seen to channel Aoskar's divine power inside Sigil, implying a way to circumvent the Lady's Cage.

[0wca]

So I started a new game, was rude to Morte, removed him from my party, and killed him. Which, considering his damage reduction and AC, took forever. I then killed off the zombies and unlocked the door. And... it froze. Because if Morte is dead/not in the party, you can't have the conversation where Nameless One starts a new journal, and there is apparently no alternate event. So Nameless One just stands there.

Try it after you get out of the mortuary. :smallwink:


Oh, and the first time I started it I wanted to be a cleric, only to find that it is not, in fact, possible to become a cleric of Aoskar, despite the fact that the priest can clearly be seen to channel Aoskar's divine power inside Sigil, implying a way to circumvent the Lady's Cage.

I think Fall-From-Grace can teach you how to be a cleric...:smallsmile:

[Archonic Energy]

I think Fall-From-Grace can teach you how to be a cleric...:smallsmile:

Nope.
thE Gods abaNdoned yOu lonG ago broKen One.

[0wca]

That's weird.. I think I managed to convince her at some point of the game, with sufficient dialogue, and XP. I think you have to convince her to read her journal, and some other stuff, so she trusts you...

[Yuki Akuma]

There is no way to read Grace's journal, and the only way for TNO to become anything other than a fighter, mage or thief is by cheating.

And the game doesn't like it if TNO is a priest. It tends to freeze a lot.

[Morty]

Considering that choosing a class in Torment is something more than taking levels in it, it'd be hard to become a cleric, since that needs devotion to ceratin god. And besides, that'd cause problems in these parts of game when we have to travel alone, since cleric's spell list in Torment is healing-oriented.

[Yuki Akuma]

Really, it's like complaining that TNO can't become a bard, or a ranger, or a specialist mage...

Those classes are programmed into the game, by the way. They're just not used for any of the playable characters.

[Morty]

Bardic TNO would be interesting, though.

[Archonic Energy]

Bardic TNO would be interesting, though.

ask Morte if he can teach you to play the ivory.

[Ink]

Actually, come to think of it, Morte would make a good bard.

[DeathQuaker]

Actually, come to think of it, Morte would make a good bard.

'Cept mechanically, he's got a low charisma (6, IIRC). I think the idea is that while skilled in certain ways of interacting (taunting) he's both off-putting on first impression (hard to talk to a floating skull) and generally does not make efforts to get along with people. Of course, you could rewrite him with different stats. He would be appropriate from the view point that he'd make a good party buffer, supporter, and storyteller.

[Archonic Energy]

by story teller do you mean liar or loremaster?

[DeathQuaker]

by story teller do you mean liar or loremaster?

Can't I mean both? :smallbiggrin: Morte was a skilled liar (damned liar, literally) and was also a great source of information.

[Om]

Oh, and the first time I started it I wanted to be a cleric, only to find that it is not, in fact, possible to become a cleric of Aoskar, despite the fact that the priest can clearly be seen to channel Aoskar's divine power inside Sigil, implying a way to circumvent the Lady's Cage.There are no gods in the Cage. That's part of the setting as much as the game. Of course you can technically become a disciple of a god... for all of five minutes before the Lady sorts you out.

[DeathQuaker]

There are no gods in the Cage. That's part of the setting as much as the game. Of course you can technically become a disciple of a god... for all of five minutes before the Lady sorts you out.

Erm... not quite.

Gods can't literally enter the Cage, that's true. They are banned from it, on pain of death from the Lady, as she'll do to them what she did to Aoskar (god sashimi anyone?).

The Lady does NOT deny clerics their divine powers, nor denies worship of any Powers, with two notable exceptions:

1. You are not permitted to worship the Lady herself; such worship is punishable by Death or Mazing. In Torment, you can be Mazed or killed if you try to worship the Lady.

2. You are not permitted to worship Aoskar, the god of portals, who pissed her off. This is also punishable by Death or Mazing (with the notable exception of Fell, whose continued existence is somewhat of a mystery--though everyone presumes he'll be doomed sooner or later (please see writeup of Fell at planewalker.com). Note how terrified Annah is of being near him--she doesn't even want to be near him, should the Lady's shadow pass by).

- In Torment, if you worship Aoskar, you get Mazed (which isn't necessarily a bad thing, as long as it's the only time you are Mazed). So you don't really have time to become a priest of him, or anything, even if you were able to take priest classes, which the Nameless One can't anyway because of his being soul sundered or whatever.
- In Torment, I think the one surviving priest there doesn't last long--I don't think you find him around later on in the game.
- The priest who is able to channel divine energy "from Aoskar" is probably generating the power from his own belief, as Aoskar is, again, strips of god-meat floating around on the Astral Plane.

[Om]

The Lady does NOT deny clerics their divine powers, nor denies worship of any Powers, with two notable exceptions:I stand corrected then.

[Soniku]

Sorry it's taken me so long to get back, I'm not quite sure why, but in response to




You need, specifically, the work hammer, either from the Mortuary or from the dead dabus. I had sold the thing and spent a great deal of time trying to find/procure every other sodding hammer I'd seen, not realizing my mistake.

No, it has never worked. I think my copy is broken or something because neither the crowbar nor the work hammer are working on the house. I have the stratergy guide and checked a number of walkthroughs but they will JUST NOT WORK :smallfurious:

[Yuki Akuma]

I managed to get it to work using a warhammer. You just need a hammer. :smalltongue:

[The Dirge]

Just download it. One of the best games I have ever played. You could just PM someone for a burnt version of the game and pay them shipping costs, just make sure they post it on Ebay first so they are legally bound to send it to you.

[The Dirge]

Best part of the game is that book that gives you awsome spells if you sell party members into slavery and kill them

[Lord of the Helms]

On the topic of classes: If I remember correctly, there was some sort of bug-using that allowed you to become dual-classed, combining your class with any class a party member of yours had. I'd have to look it up again as for how to do it - never did myself.

[Shikton]

It was a combination with thief, but I can't remember if it was mage/thief or fighter/thief. Of course, I could be wrong all together. Should say so in a walkthrough on gamefaqs. That's where I found it. Never tested it though.

[0wca]

NO.

i have insanity but not time.

to do it well you'd have to...
Custom make 3/4 of the scenery & Tilesets.
Transcribe loads of text.
add new feats.
Transcribe even more text.
Add new races (Mordon, Skull, Mercykiller)
Don't forget to finish the text
are you forgetting it took nearly 3 years to translaet to some languages.
Steal the voice acting
Figure out how to make Ignus BURN...
Swappable body parts.
Change how Wis gives XP
Make Annah Cute.

and that's what just immediatly comes to hand!

although if anyone want's to prove me wrong...


I think you missed one ENORMOUS part:

THE STORY.

It would me INSANELY hard to continue a story as it was presented in this game. In the sense of making it:
-fresh, yet attached to the 1. part,

-it would somehow have to be a completely new story, in the sense of the Nameless One fighting in the Blood War (since that's where the end cutscene ends..), but still be something that the players who played the 1. part would love about,

-your allies, since you teleport them back into Sigil, I'm guessing at one point of the game you should return there, (for nostalgia's sake :smallsmile: ),OR you would find them on some other planes, and each one of them would have their own story how they got there (SWEEET nostalgia again :smalltongue: ),

-new characters, besides the old ones that would still be unique like in the 1. part,

-new planes, new cities (the artwork and the story background on that part would be insanely hard to do...),

-new spells,

-thousands of NPCs which you talk to in the game and their underlying quests,

-also new apects of the game which we haven't seen in the 1. part (as it should be for any sequel),

-dialogues, descriptions, movies, character voices,

-music (to equal the quality level of the 1. part would be really hard),

-etc.

That is mostly what comes to mind. I think in any case if anyone wanted to create a sequel it would HAVE to be the same team that did the 1. part. I got tons of ideas for the sequel, but I lack the skill and the time to put my ideas into reality.

If I had the whole team assembled though... :smalltongue:

[Varen_Tai]

Not a sequel - a remake. :)

[0wca]

Not a sequel - a remake. :)

Oh.. sorry. :smallsmile: I misread.

In any case a remake wouldn't be THAT hard though.

But I think more than making a remake, a sequel would be better. Because a remake would just be blasphemy. :smallmad:

I hope somebody picks up the old engine and code and takes the time to make a design for a sequel. :smallfrown: Because in my case the Infinity engine is still the best RPG engine, ESPECIALLY for PLANESCAPE: TORMENT.

[0wca]

Oh yeah and if anyone wants the soundtrack it's here:

http://www.planescape-torment.org/soundtrack/ (click and "save target as..")

IT'S AMAZING.

[DeathQuaker]

Oh.. sorry. :smallsmile: I misread.

In any case a remake wouldn't be THAT hard though.

Well, except for all the things Archonic's already pointed out. Just implementing the text would be enormously timeconsuming.



But I think more than making a remake, a sequel would be better. Because a remake would just be blasphemy. :smallmad:

I don't think so. I personally think it would be quite nice to be able to zoom in and look at Annah and Grace up close. :smallbiggrin: What makes Torment is the story; the looks and interface is all icing anyway. And the particular brand of the IE used for Torment was actually kinda clunky (as I've been recently replaying the game, I've been rediscovering this). Not the high point of the game by a long shot.

I'd also love to play the game in D&D 3.5 -- hence the idea of making one.



I hope somebody picks up the old engine and code and takes the time to make a design for a sequel. :smallfrown: Because in my case the Infinity engine is still the best RPG engine, ESPECIALLY for PLANESCAPE: TORMENT.

I believe once upon a time there was a project on that called Planescape: Vengeance but it ultimately fell apart. And one problem with Torment was that--from what I understand--the particular brand of IE used for Torment was very difficult to Mod. That's why you don't see a lot of Torment mods when you see all those Baldur's Gate ones. I think there were even enough differences that doing a "TuTu" doesn't really work.

And again, I never felt the engine itself for Torment was particularly spectacular. I certainly didn't play the game for the engine.

And the problem with a sequel is... well, there really shouldn't be one. I mean, I want one... but it could never be done right. The Nameless One needs to be left to his afterlife... and while you could do a game surrounding the other characters, it would likely be to no-one's satisfaction.

I did play Beerfish's Torment sequels he made for NWN... they were fun, but they reflected one player's interpretations of certain characters and events. They were great as interactive fanfiction AND the ORIGINAL parts of the story were fantastic, but the parts that connected it to Torment felt somehow empty...

And ya know, I think if there's ever gonna be a "true" sequel for Torment, it's gotta be written by Chris Avellone.

Maybe a more realistic project would be Torment "homage" like creating the Hive as seen in Torment. A nice little module where you can explore and go on quests and talk to the characters you loved in the original game, without impinging upon the story.

[Archonic Energy]

Maybe a more realistic project would be Torment "homage" like creating the Hive as seen in Torment. A nice little module where you can explore and go on quests and talk to the characters you loved in the original game, without impinging upon the story.
seeing TNO & Morte running aroung looking for a bronze sphere would be funny.

[Mike_Lemmer]

And you wouldn't have to worry about killing them and throwing the whole story off-track!

[DeathQuaker]

seeing TNO & Morte running aroung looking for a bronze sphere would be funny.

I can see the conversation tree now...

PC: Hello, who are you?
TNO: Have you seen a journal?
PC: Um... no.
TNO: I'm looking for a fellow named Pharod, do you know him?
PC: Nope, sorry. Look um-
TNO: Where am I?
PC: The city of Sigil. Look, who are you?
TNO: Hey, since when were you the one who gets to ask questions?

[Murongo]

hehe just got this. Pretty sure I'm gonna end up evil because I kill everyone and everything. Stupid giant skeletons though, I had to dismantle them with their runes or whatever.

[Yuki Akuma]

hehe just got this. Pretty sure I'm gonna end up evil because I kill everyone and everything. Stupid giant skeletons though, I had to dismantle them with their runes or whatever.

That's a sure-fire way to ruin your game. Seriiously.

You're gonna get ma-azed!

[0wca]

And ya know, I think if there's ever gonna be a "true" sequel for Torment, it's gotta be written by Chris Avellone.


It HAS to be. WHat that team made was magic. If there would at anytime be hope for a real sequel it would have to be by the same team. You can't make a sequel to a story like that, unless it's the original team. No way.

[Archonic Energy]

I can see the conversation tree now...

PC: Hello, who are you?
TNO: Have you seen a journal?
PC: Um... no.
TNO: I'm looking for a fellow named Pharod, do you know him?
PC: Nope, sorry. Look um-
TNO: Where am I?
PC: The city of Sigil. Look, who are you?
TNO: Hey, since when were you the one who gets to ask questions?

PC: Pharod will die, Morte's not a Mimir, Dak'kon's your slave. the bronze sphere contains your name.
TNO: stop rambling you crazy person.
PC: Don't say i didn't warn you!

[Shikton]

PC: Pharod will die, Morte's not a Mimir, Dak'kon's your slave. the bronze sphere contains your name.
TNO: stop rambling you crazy person.
PC: Don't say i didn't warn you!


Hmm

Hey, wait wait wait, I can't remember the name being in the sphere! How did I miss that?! Or did I just not pay enough attention?

[DeathQuaker]

Hmm

Hey, wait wait wait, I can't remember the name being in the sphere! How did I miss that?! Or did I just not pay enough attention?


It's at the end of the game, and IIRC, you either need to have high enough stats to open it (Wis, I think. Generally, high Wis=win the game) or have said something to your Good Incarnation to trigger its opening. I don't remember exactly--but anyway, you don't necessarily discover that.

[Yuki Akuma]

...The game just says "suddenly you know your name. It's so simple, so easy...".

Or something like that.

[wrath]

Platter has the final word on TNO's name according to Chris Avellone and Dave Maldonado (Lead Designer and another Designer of Planescape: Torment) here:
http://crap.planescape-torment.org/threads/chris_dave_name.htm

[Varen_Tai]

So I'm playing again...

Just picked up Grace. And I've always wanted to know - is there a Grace romance possible? Or is she always friendly, warm, caring, and distant?

[Yuki Akuma]

She's always friendly, warm, caring and distant.

There are a few touching moments, but you can't romance her. The closest you can get is by choosing her instead of Annah in Ravel's maze.

[Sir Enigma]

I've just started playing this, and I've gotten outside the Mortuary - can anyone tell me how I turn TNO into a mage? I always play fighters in Baldur's Gate, so I want to try something different.
Thanks in advance.

[Om]

I've just started playing this, and I've gotten outside the Mortuary - can anyone tell me how I turn TNO into a mage? I always play fighters in Baldur's Gate, so I want to try something different.IIRC you have to talk to the healing woman Mebbeth in Ragpicker's Square.

[Yuki Akuma]

Or you can wait until you can enter the Festhall and speak to the mage tutor.

...Not that you want to wait that long.

Mabbeth is the best idea. Learning from Mabbeth is more rewarding, and you get the class much earlier. Also, knowing Mabbeth gives you some fun rewards later on when you first exit Sigil.

[Morty]

And the Quell's(or something, I don't remeber- he's the mage you ask about Ravel in Private Sensory) reaction when he sees your spellbook is priceless.

[Yuki Akuma]

...I don't think I remember that. How does he react?

[Morty]

He lashes out that he won't teach anyone without respect for the Art, and that spellbook should look magnificent, as it represents one's respect for magical art. He also calls TNO's spellbook 'crap' or something like that- I don't know how it sounded in english version.

[Yuki Akuma]

I love the Nameless One's spellbook, personally. It fits him quite well. :smallbiggrin:

[Driderman]

First, I'd like to say, like so many others, that this is definitely the most brilliant computer rpg made to date.

On the topic of a sequel, I seem to remember Fall-From-Grace doing some magic mumbo-jumbo on you doing the final scene and telling something like " I WILL find you" or something to that extent. That definitely made me fall in love with her


The bronze sphere contains the memories of the first incarnation

In the Burning Man Tavern, there's a guy named Ilquix and two Abishai. If you kill the Abishai, Ilquix turns into a Glabrezu and tells you that later he might teach you some tricks. Now I've come back after my jaunt through the planes and with Chaotic Evil alignment, but he never did teach me anything. Anyone have an idea about that?

[Charles Phipps]

Seven years late but I got this game.

Woah is all I can say.

That and it plays like I RPG.

[Archonic Energy]

*Sniff*

mmm i love the smell of Threadomancy in the morning... smells like Victory

Oh and Charles, some of this thread has MAJOR spoilers in... if you're still playing then i suggest you don't read this thread in it's entirity.

[Charles Phipps]

Oh and Charles, some of this thread has MAJOR spoilers in... if you're still playing then i suggest you don't read this thread in it's entirity.

I, unfortunately, already knew the ending when I bought the game. Frankly, it doesn't really impact my decision that much because I already know that the Nameless One is doomed, that pretty much just reflects how his entire life is shaping up.

;-)

[SITB]

...The game just says "suddenly you know your name. It's so simple, so easy...".

Or something like that.

It's somewhat more dramtic then that, it goes:

..He doesn't speak, but with his touch, you suddenly remember your name. ...and it is such a simple thing, not at all what you thought it might be, and you feel yourself suddenly comforted. In knowing your name, your true name, you know that you have gained back perhaps the most important part of yourself. In knowing your name, you know yourself, and you know, now, there is very little you cannot do.

Besides you get it by

Disscusing with your first incarnation about the other incarnations and bringing the fact that they are echoes of your previous lives. You bring the fact that it may be possible that your first incarnation is somewhere in your mind and then you can notice that he is the first incarntion (may require a lot of wisdom).

As an aside though, is it actually worth it to play the game as a warrior? You get unworthwhile stat bonuses and TNO is the only one who can be a good mage in the game.

[Driderman]

I've played the game several times, but I've never actually completed it as a mage since it's just too much of a hassle. You might miss out on a few nifty (for their time) spell animations, but if you prioritize your stats right you can get all the interesting dialogue and such as fighter or thief, easily. Since you can switch between classes you can always switch to mage for the interesting Ignus/D'akkon stuff and then switch back later, much like you can switch to thief for some interesting moments with Annah

[Blayze]

I suppose being a Mage gives you a slight advantage in the form of access to Fell's +2 Int tattoo, which can mean more EXP in the long run. In other words, start with 18 Int and Wis (And 12 Cha), then make your way to Fell as soon as possible to pick up the +2 Wis tattoo and two +1 Wis ones (And make sure to visit O while you're in the area for the free +1 Wis).

Assuming that you level up once in the Mortuary, that should mean 24 Wis at this point. With your 18 Int, that should be all you need to get the most out of your training with Mebbeth and then go through the entire Unbroken Circle in one sitting, which should take you either to or close to level 7 as a Mage already.

Since you already reached level 4 as a Fighter, that should (If I remember correctly...) allow you two or three stat points from levelling as a Mage. The first one should take you to 25 Wis, and any subsequent ones should be taken in Wisdom, with you swapping out each +Wis tattoo in turn, first one of the +1 ones (Replacing it with the +2 Int one), making sure to keep your Wis at 25 no matter what.

When all is said and done, you should have both stats at 25 naturally and have covered yourself in +Cha stat bonuses. I believe Sebastion (I think that's how you spell his name) in the Lower Ward is the earliest you can get a Charisma boost, so it shouldn't be long before you reach 25 Cha.

The total price of buying all that from Fell eludes me, but you should be able to afford the +Wis stuff to start with fairly easily.

In short: Playing as a Mage can mean a slight bonus to experience, depending how you handle things. :P

In other news: I just keep on cacking up my game. First I forgot to tell Craddock what his wayward employee actually said, thus failing to net Morte a boost to his Litany of Curses.

THEN I entered Pharod's Vault, and Annah yelled something about a head and a pike. If she leaves my party later on, I think I might know why. Hopefully I can find some sort of AnnahRedRage=Yes counter in the code through a savegame editor and change that.

And NOW I find out that I needed to tell Emoric about Pharod's supply of corpses BEFORE I was forced out of the Dusties for telling him what I am.

On the plus side, I'd never seen Old Coppereyes before. I wonder if he's important...

Edit: That should cover me for damn near everything. It gets a bit confusing, having both of these topics. Was sure I'd posted this in the other one. :P

[Driderman]

Never gotten anything out of old Coppereyes except some copper (well duh) and a creepy feeling. I've always had the impression that there was more to him than that, but thats how I feel about a lot of things in the game. You might want to keep those statements /spoilered though, Blayze, this is the Planescape: Torment thread without spoilers... Or, it's supposed to be at least

[Charles Phipps]

Well I played a Fighter for a bit then switched to being a Mage around 5th level (I'm now 9th Level). Now I'm currently in the Godsman's Foundry, having completed all of the quests to become a Faction Member. I was most impressed by meeting the Golem who gave me the Blade of the Immortals.

I'm pretty sure that weapon will be vitally important come the grand finale of this work.

Thus far, I suppose what I like best is the option to run away from unnecessary and unwanted combat. I also like the fact that Sigil is such a slimy cesspool on the face of creation. Really, the appearance of slaves just helps accent the "I can't believe they do that" feel that reminds me of HBO's Rome.