[PF] Cleric : normal or spontaneous variant ?

[Roncorps]

Hi,

I'm starting a cleric in PF and I wanted to know what the pro and con of going spontaneous over using the normal way spells know work. I'll would be using the d20srd Spontaneous Divine Caster (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/spontaneousDivineCasters.htm).

Thanks a lot !

[DMVerdandi]

Hi,

I'm starting a cleric in PF and I wanted to know what the pro and con of going spontaneous over using the normal way spells know work. I'll would be using the d20srd Spontaneous Divine Caster (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/spontaneousDivineCasters.htm).

Thanks a lot !

If you want to be weaker. A spontaneous cleric is weaker than a favored soul. Drops the tier level by quite a bit. It's literally a sorcerer with cleric spells and a better bab. Meh.

If you want to REALLY be interesting, use the spontaneous domain casting variant from PHB2. That allows you to spontaneously cast any domain that you qualify for. Much better IMO.

[Keneth]

If this is a Pathfinder question, Pathfinder already has spontaneous clerics — they're called oracles. Why bother using a 3.5 variant that's clearly worse in every aspect? :smallconfused:

[Yahya]

Yeah, what Kenneth said, Oracles (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle) sound like what you're looking for. Unless you want a spontaneous divine caster who can still wear armor and compete in melee?

What exactly draws you to spontaneous casting?

[Roncorps]

I did know about oracles, but I don't know. The flavor seem kind of meh, but I admit I don't know about mysteries, lore and etc. pro.

Why I would want a spontaneous ? I very much liked my shugenja in a L5R D20 game and I've find that it can work well with a party that is already solid.

I will be playing with a druid, a paladin and a rogue. They don't OP much.

[Keneth]

Unless you want a spontaneous divine caster who can still wear armor and compete in melee?

Oracles have the exact same hit die, armor and weapon proficiencies, as well as BAB progression as a cleric. If anything, they're better off in combat, especially if you take a few paladin levels or go barbarian/rage prophet.


I will be playing with a druid, a paladin and a rogue. They don't OP much.

Sounds more like your party needs an arcane caster if you ask me.

[Humble Master]

I did know about oracles, but I don't know.
I will be playing with a druid, a paladin and a rogue. They don't OP much.
You already have 2 healers and 2 front line combatants (animal companions are awsome). What you really need is some arcane spell casting. Sorc if you want to blast spells nonstop. Wizard if you like to be tactically minded.

[Squirrel_Dude]

Oracles have the exact same hit die, armor and weapon proficiencies, as well as BAB progression as a cleric. If anything, they're better off in combat, especially if you take a few paladin levels or go barbarian/rage prophet.There's also the battle mystery that allows you to gain proficiency with all martial weapons and heavy armor. :smalltongue:

But two levels in Paladin + Oracle sounds really sweet.



I agree with the others. It does sound like you need an arcane caster. Sorcerer, Witch, or Wizard should suit your party pretty well.

[Roncorps]

My DM said the same, but I'm stubborn.

I was looking at Witch and Sorcerer at one time, the witch looking very flavorful and I know of the power of cackle + whatever hex. I would be more tempting at playing a witch than a sorcerer for RP and fun purpose (but it would be a lad !).

What I mostly want would be a controller and someone who can back up the party. Reading more about the witch, I see it's more hexing and cackling than spellcasting.

[Urpriest]

My DM said the same, but I'm stubborn.

I was looking at Witch and Sorcerer at one time, the witch looking very flavorful and I know of the power of cackle + whatever hex. I would be more tempting at playing a witch than a sorcerer for RP and fun purpose (but it would be a lad !).

What I mostly want would be a controller and someone who can back up the party. Reading more about the witch, I see it's more hexing and cackling than spellcasting.

Witches still cast like a Wizard and have some of the best spells from Wizard, Druid, and Cleric. You've got hexing and cackling, but you're not slouch as a caster, controller, or even buffer.

[Roncorps]

Would a witch be able to help in any situation the party without outshining them ?

BTW, this character will be for RotR AP.

[Squirrel_Dude]

A witch is similar to a wizard in that you can add spells from scrolls, so you do indeed gain a very diverse set of tools at your disposal. It's not quite as versatile as tier one casters (oh teh noes), and you have a bit more trouble with unde- oh wait you have a paladin, you'll be fine.

In other words: they have nice spells, and some nice class abilities to help out with the lack of incredibly strong spellcasting. As for whether or not they'll outshine other characters, that's up to you as a player.

[Roncorps]

In other words: they have nice spells, and some nice class abilities to help out with the lack of incredibly strong spellcasting. As for whether or not they'll outshine other characters, that's up to you as a player.

Yeah, I should probably stop reading all the OP guide and go more for flavor than "oh-my-god-this-ability-is-purple/blue-on-Treatmonk-chart-I-must-take-it !"

[Squirrel_Dude]

Yeah, I should probably stop reading all the OP guide and go more for flavor than "oh-my-god-this-ability-is-purple/blue-on-Treatmonk-chart-I-must-take-it !"*shrug*

Just don't completely avoid the good options. That's not good roleplay, that's just making bad decisions. Just remember to work with your party members to pick the appropriate spells for your character to learn as the game goes on. You probably don't need to pick up something like summon monster because the druid can handle that.

[Keneth]

BTW, this character will be for RotR AP.

RotR can get extremely brutal. If your druid won't optimize, there's no harm in you doing so. Trust me, it's gonna be a blessing. It's not like you have to actively try and be better than everyone else all the time, but when things get complicated, bring out the big guns.


It's not quite as versatile as tier one casters

What are you talking about, witch is a a tier one caster, and a damn good one. :smallbiggrin:

[AttilaTheGeek]

RotR can get extremely brutal. If your druid won't optimize, there's no harm in you doing so. Trust me, it's gonna be a blessing. It's not like you have to actively try and be better than everyone else all the time, but when things get complicated, bring out the big guns.

Seconded. One does not simply run RotRL without optimizing and not get TPK'd over and over.

[Roncorps]

Hmmm OK. My DM said that he will run RotR very closely to what it is and will want character going with points buy to not make them overpowered.

Ok, gonna look more closely at the Witch. I find it useful as a group-save with slumber/other hex or crowd control spell. I think that gonna be a good way to help the team.

I'm just thinking about the Scarred Witch Doctor that use his CON and don't lose much.

[stack]

Depends if the party needs knowledge skills, spellcraft, etc that comes from a sky-high INT score. Scarred witch doctors tend to dump INT, leaving you with a paltry 2 SP/level.

[Keneth]

Witches have no business being Int-based anyway. They just did that because they needed two Int-based full casters.

[Roncorps]

With druid, paladin and rogue, I think a INT based class would complement the team perfectly.

Thanks for all the advice, I'll go with the witches and see by myself if I like it !

[AttilaTheGeek]

The best description I've heard of the Witch is this:


"Witch is to Mystic Theurge as Magus is to Eldritch Knight".

Both base classes fulfill the roles of their respective PrCs from level one, though in a different way. The Witch has a familiar and hexes, which give them a very different power source and round-to-round "feel" than the MT, but they both cast arcane as well as divine spells. The Eldritch Knight casts spells better than the Magus, and hits harder than a Magus, but the Magus can do both at the same time. They're both "arcane fighter" characters that fulfill the same role in the party but have different round-to-round methods of doing so.