We Need to Kill a LOT of People

[Nesier]

I'm playing in an evil campaign where we are looking to kill a lot of people. To be more specific, upwards of a million people.

In order to do so, we need an effective way to cause as many deaths as possible. We have access to the core books, as well as the completes. Our DM isn't supportive of powergaming or abuse of rules.

We are all level 9
Our party includes:
A Gnoll Barbarian (Myself)
A Githzerai Cleric
A Human Dread Necromancer

Money is an issue, and unreasonably expensive solutions will not work, but we are open for ideas that will be expensive but will work in the future.

In regards to time, we have anywhere from a day to 28 years (Gnoll lifespan). This is a lifelong goal, not a weekend project.

Thank you for your time.

[RFLS]

Wightocalype or shadeocalypse is your best bet. After that....idk.

[HunterOfJello]

Poisoning a bunch of wells is usually an effective method of killing lots of people. A million is a lot of people though.

Creating a civil war should take out a lot of them. There are both roleplaying and spellcasting ways of achieving this.

The aforementioned wight/shade-ocalypse is also effective. Tons of undead killing people and creating more undead until everyone is dead and/or undead. Unfortunately, this method is likely to take out your party as well. (This does have the likely side effect of pissing off lots of powerful mages from surrounding areas and possibly other dimensions though. Don't be surprised if some Inevitables show up to tell you how dissapointed they are in your behavior.)

The Contagion spell along with a method of infecting as many rats, and therefore fleas, as possible could also be effective. I would use the Slimy Doom disease.

It would be interesting if you could find a way to make the Wights able to give others Slimy Doom. That way, even if a Wight is killed in single combat, it could still deliver the disease.

[Failed Phantasm]

On the off-chance that your Cleric's got the Air domain, then Control Winds (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/controlWinds.htm) is an option. The spell creates hurricane-force winds in a 420-foot radius at CL 12th, which affects everything smaller than Gargantuan. If you wait for CL 15th and tornado-force winds, you can pick a heavily-populated metropolis of your choice and level it in fairly short order. Make sure it's isolated or blockaded somehow for maximum effectiveness.

EDIT: It's a shame you don't have access to Frostburn, because Fimbulwinter is lol. It's a 9th level spell (8th for a Sorcerer or Wizard, but that's irrelevant to you) that comes at the bargain bin price of just 100XP. It lasts anywhere from one month to just shy of one year in an area that's - at minimum - 17 miles in radius for a Cleric and, if you roll really well, it can dump as much as 1d6+1 feet of snow in the affected area every day. Non-stop for as long as almost a year. Snow falls, everyone dies (probably of hypothermia).

[blackspeeker]

Your dread necromancer gets cloudkill and if your cleric has the air domain he has control winds then they could make an incredibly fast rolling cloud of death wiping out a large amount of lower level people.

A carefully shaped group of windwalls could do the job too, but it lacks the showmanship of a tornado mixed with a cloudkill.

A wind fan could also do the job

[Coidzor]

What's your time frame to do this in? What are the constraints for counting as a kill for you?

What sort of population centers are you dealing with?

[metabolicjosh]

You could just go on a killing spree... level up and then do the magic mumbo jumbo:smallcool:

[Tvtyrant]

Here is a cool one; did you know you can stack Lycanthopy? Any humanoid or giant can contract it, and it doesn't change your type. What it does do is add a heap of HD and BaB to you character, and let you turn into things. Capture a bunch of different types of lycanthropes (werewolf, weretiger, werebear, etc.) They have to be naturals to infect people. Now grab a couple hundred 1 HD commoners. Give each one some temporary hit points and get bit and then healed again.

By the end of the day you should have a few hundred 40 HD commoners who will turn into raging monsters at the next full moon. Tie them up on roof tops on the day of the full moon in different cities, and let the world burn.

[Keneth]

Yeah, no. Lycanthropy is an affliction, a disease, and you can't contract the same affliction you're already suffering from. The template rules may not care, but the DM sure as hell will. :smallbiggrin:

[Tvtyrant]

Yeah, no. Lycanthropy is an affliction, a disease, and you can't contract the same affliction you're already suffering from. The template rules may not care, but the DM sure as hell will. :smallbiggrin:

I bet you don't even believe in double yetis >_>

[Coidzor]

Here is a cool one; did you know you can stack Lycanthopy? Any humanoid or giant can contract it, and it doesn't change your type. What it does do is add a heap of HD and BaB to you character, and let you turn into things. Capture a bunch of different types of lycanthropes (werewolf, weretiger, werebear, etc.) They have to be naturals to infect people. Now grab a couple hundred 1 HD commoners. Give each one some temporary hit points and get bit and then healed again.

By the end of the day you should have a few hundred 40 HD commoners who will turn into raging monsters at the next full moon. Tie them up on roof tops on the day of the full moon in different cities, and let the world burn.

The real question is, what alignment will they become?

[Failed Phantasm]

The real question is, what alignment will they become?

Angry Hungry :smalltongue:

[Keneth]

I'd say more like Chaotic Angsty. :smallbiggrin:

[killem2]

How about summon undead, and make a bunch of Wights, into a pseudo-zombie Apocalypse.

If we're just talking civilians.

Otherwise, poison water supply? Buy very very good locks, light some houses on fire, after locking the doors.

[ironwizard]

Contagion + Fell Animate + Virus Spell. Select the disease as AIDS. Repeat with the Flu.

[Gnome Alone]

Proud as I am of everyone for thinking up all these horrifying methods in like two seconds, I will instead ask: Why do you want to murderize ever'body? To summon eldritch horrors? "For the evulz"? Angsty vengeance for the short-ass lifespan of gnolls?

[Failed Phantasm]

Surprisingly, gnolls actually have a maximum lifespan of 90 years, according to Races of the Wild1. Being comparable to a human lifespan's not that bad, in my opinion. Assuming, that is, that the gnoll in question is a PC because it's highly unlikely that NPC gnolls (even non-evil ones) will ever live that long. :smalltongue: [/tangent]

EDIT: Hell, that actually puts them ahead of half-orcs by about 10 years.

1 Venerable at 70 + 2d10 for maximum age

[Juntao112]

Mass produce high-fructose corn syrup.

[Khosan]

I was going to recommend the Locate City Bomb, but it's not really possible with your group. It's possible at that level and it could essentially wipe entire cities off the map. Really specialized though.

It is, however, hilarious.

[dascarletm]

I like the idea of starting a war, make your victims work for you.

If you get one high cha player on each side of a big issue....


This sounds like a good campaign plot.

[herculesftw]

at least one thrall herd, making sure your group travels A LOT to avoid attracting too many people from one place, whilst every 24 hours, making sure you infect every single thrall of yours with diseases, and then making them pass it on via subtle measures throughout your traveling process.

[ahenobarbi]

Use minor (or major) creation to create lots of poison.
- Put ingested poisons in rivers, lakes and the like.
- Fly & spread inhaled poisons.

Here is a list of poisons (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?PHPSESSID=1fied0kq4ab5q8ss4ftnd0gl52&topic=4854.msg162790#msg162790)

[Waspinator]

You've got a cleric and a necromancer, you should probably go for one of the "army of the undead" routes.

[Hyde]

Yeah, the undead apocalypse seems like the easiest route. You could pull it off with any self-spawning undead, even measly shadow.

[Killer Angel]

Don't limit yourselves, and use different methods: poison in one country, undead apocalypse in another, civil war in a big city, and so on.
And protect yourselves from divinations...

[XmonkTad]

Mass produce high-fructose corn syrup.

Wonderful. In that vein, the rules for drugs in BoVD might give you a few ideas. Making a drug just takes a level 1 spell. Get a city sufficiently drugged up, promise it to a bunch of fiends and then lead a crusade of solar angels against them (chain gate?). That will create quite the war.

[Callin]

Invent Social Media and wait

But yea the raging hordes of Undead, Bad Moon Rising, animating all the silverware in a city... all good ideas

[Nesier]

In response to questions, our motivation for killing everyone is to please Nerull and Yeenoghu, and ultimately get the "High score" for killing people.

For statistics purposes, our definition of kill is:
To be directly, or indirectly responsible for the death of a living, non immortal humanoid.

Thanks for the ideas, guys!

[Selein]

unleash a plague,

get bandits or something to start destroying crops and killing livestock to cause food shortages,

leave signs that bandits are from neighbouring nations.

kingdoms will be hard pressed to distract the ppl from the ever growing troubles AND go after revenge by engaging in wars AND be in need of more resources to make up for their shortages from plague/war

[dascarletm]

In response to questions, our motivation for killing everyone is to please Nerull and Yeenoghu, and ultimately get the "High score" for killing people.

For statistics purposes, our definition of kill is:
To be directly, or indirectly responsible for the death of a living, non immortal humanoid.

Thanks for the ideas, guys!

Careful with that for Nerull, he has a tenancy to kill his followers who draw his attention.

[Krobar]

If you have the time and money, get a bunch of bags of holding. Then get your necromancer to start forcing shadows and greater shadows into them. As each one gets filled to the limit he can control, close it off. Then start on the next one. Given time, you could have hundreds, if not thousands of shadows in those bags.

Get yourself buffed with Death Ward, and then open them all in a big city, at night.

Head for the hills asap.

Repeat the above until you've killed your million people.

[Zubrowka74]

Nobody mentioned disease yet ? Spread a mortal plague that will kill the humanoids. Propagate some king of crop destroying fungi and watch the survivors starve to death.

Like it was mentioned, do all of these together : poison, disease, fire in urban areas, replicating undeads, permanent gates to the lower planes, etc... The problem, though, in a fantasy setting is population density. You dont have cities with 1 000 000 souls you can nuke in one blast.

[North_Ranger]

Purchase and train cats.

[Coidzor]

Level up and travel without attracting too much heat until you've got familiarity with all of the major population centers on the world you're planning on depopulating to be able to quickly teleport between them all.

Then unleash several multi-pronged schemes nearly simultaneously.

[Fable Wright]

Nobody mentioned disease yet ? Spread a mortal plague that will kill the humanoids. Propagate some king of crop destroying fungi and watch the survivors starve to death.

Like it was mentioned, do all of these together : poison, disease, fire in urban areas, replicating undeads, permanent gates to the lower planes, etc... The problem, though, in a fantasy setting is population density. You dont have cities with 1 000 000 souls you can nuke in one blast.

The problem is that there are people to combat all of these methods. Paladins, clerics, bucket chains, and so on. Unfortunately, killing people one town at a time, the easiest method, tends to be low on kill counts. Metropoli, on the other hand, have the population density you need, but are harder to strike. The best way to do it would be to start casting Earthquake in highly populated areas in metropoli. The riskiest method to do it would be for the Dread Necromancer to Planar Binding a Glabrezu to claim its Wish, and use it for great destruction. Some choice examples would include moving a group of 17-20 Balors in the middle of a major metropolitan center, after previously arranging a deal for them to destroy the town they're summoned into before they go on their merry way. A few CL 20 blasphemies from each, and the metropolitan center is a graveyard. And then, of course, you have 17-20 Balors free in the material world to cause more indirect kills.

[Callin]

ohh true... just a lesser planar ally to let the Demon or Devil hordes know you are goin to open a Gate at such and such. Open Gate and unleash Hell.

[Zubrowka74]

The problem is that there are people to combat all of these methods. Paladins, clerics, bucket chains, and so on. Unfortunately, killing people one town at a time, the easiest method, tends to be low on kill counts. Metropoli, on the other hand, have the population density you need, but are harder to strike. The best way to do it would be to start casting Earthquake in highly populated areas in metropoli. The riskiest method to do it would be for the Dread Necromancer to Planar Binding a Glabrezu to claim its Wish, and use it for great destruction. Some choice examples would include moving a group of 17-20 Balors in the middle of a major metropolitan center, after previously arranging a deal for them to destroy the town they're summoned into before they go on their merry way. A few CL 20 blasphemies from each, and the metropolitan center is a graveyard. And then, of course, you have 17-20 Balors free in the material world to cause more indirect kills.

Yes, you always have them pesky adventurer comming to hinder you plans. :)

Even then, I don't know which setting is used but just taking FR as an example : Waterdeep is what ? 100 K, 150 K ? You'd have to repeat this several times. Good thing it's a long-term plan.

[hydraa]

Invite a group to a 'event' (money will be offer in a cage grab all you can or a tent revival.

Set up an area of 10x15 for this to be held in. Stuff as many people as you can in the area (should be able to fit 20 medium creatures).
Cast stone wall in shape of a lidded box at 6 ft tall x 10 wide and 15 ft across with a couple of hole left for air to escape

Having previously placed a decanter of endless water in the area with a command word of 'Help' for geyser mode. (6x10x15) 900 cu ft (less amount of people in there) fills at 4 cu ft a round. Fills with water in 225 rounds

Destruction and potential deaths from the bouncing decanter is bonus

[AttilaTheGeek]

I'd go for war. With a disease or an undead apocalypse, you're fighting against every established organization and government in the world. But why not work with them? In the words of Bastila Shan's writer (From Knights of the Old Republic), "What greater weapon is there than to turn an enemy to your cause? To use their own knowledge against them?".

[dupersudi]

You could also raise a horde of orcs, goblins etc. And if you prop a war craving lunatic in charge you can just let it go its merry way while you go to raise another.

[hydraa]

Procure young female slaves (shorter gestation time the better)

1. Impregnate (various means to accomplish this)
2. Bring infant to term (or to point that it is considered a person)
3. Deliver
4. Kill the infant
5. Repeat

Get a bonus kill for killing the slave at the end of the time limit

You should be able to get 35+ kills during the 28 years for each slave that you have procured and sustained (create food and water is fairly cheap) (or create a trap that will just drip feed the food and water into the slave automatically

[Toy Killer]

Procure young female slaves (shorter gestation time the better)

1. Impregnate (various means to accomplish this)
2. Bring infant to term (or to point that it is considered a person)
3. Deliver
4. Kill the infant
5. Repeat

Get a bonus kill for killing the slave at the end of the time limit

You should be able to get 35+ kills during the 28 years for each slave that you have procured and sustained (create food and water is fairly cheap) (or create a trap that will just drip feed the food and water into the slave automatically

Even for a thread about mass genocide, this seems cold and calculated and ultimately too evil. As a DM, I would rule this to be unfitting to the Dieties wishes, as the infants didn't even have fulfilling lives to be taken away from them. If this were the case, raising pigs would be easier and more productive fiscally, in terms of supplies and in sheer numbers (I think litters can grow into double digits occasionally). well... as long as pigs are considered at least intelligent creatures, but I don't want to start up that debate.

Personally, I would ration out roles for each player to pick with in the government and go up from there. One is a terrorist, another is a dictator and the third is an Anarchist. with liberal interpretations on each, each side could use each other to push for control against each other until one establishes dominance and all it takes is for one to be in a true position of power to really raise that death toll.

Hire minions to do your bidding in each city (as I doubt many civilizations are going to approve of gnolls and such working in their Hierarchy), and then set up wars against each civilization.

Being a War Hog, in my eyes, seems to be the best way to be indirectly responsible for Everyone's death.

[Vaern]

I'm currently playing an evil character in a campaign in which the leader of a town has expressed concern about nobles oppressing the commoners, and asked us to deal with the situation.
I'm currently in the process of irritating the nobles (by leading the daughter of one of the richest men in town to certain death), so that I can shift the blame to the commoners. The nobles with lash out at the commoners, and the commoners will rebel.
That's one way to start a war. I expect the death toll to be very high.

[J-H]

Hey, it worked for Darth Sidious.

[Coidzor]

I'd go for war. With a disease or an undead apocalypse, you're fighting against every established organization and government in the world. But why not work with them? In the words of Bastila Shan's writer (From Knights of the Old Republic), "What greater weapon is there than to turn an enemy to your cause? To use their own knowledge against them?".

Ah, yes, the Diplomancer of DEATH. :smallbiggrin:

[Kuulvheysoon]

Even for a thread about mass genocide, this seems cold and calculated and ultimately too evil. As a DM, I would rule this to be unfitting to the Dieties wishes, as the infants didn't even have fulfilling lives to be taken away from them. If this were the case, raising pigs would be easier and more productive fiscally, in terms of supplies and in sheer numbers (I think litters can grow into double digits occasionally). well... as long as pigs are considered at least intelligent creatures, but I don't want to start up that debate.

Average litter size is closer to 10.5, to tell you the truth, so a good chunk of litters hit double digits. Mind you, I've seen litters of 19 live-born, so the number can fluctuate wildly.

[Callin]

OH start rounding up Hengeyokai then and breed them for a slaughter factory lol.

[Hyde]

You'll need some kind of localized gate, something that basically makes a tunnel in space. Put one end in a civilized area (or planet) and put the other end near, say, a sun. Everything is dead.

[dupersudi]

Just start breeding dire boars then, you get big litters of big critters.

[Slipperychicken]

I found a handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=227513), which may be of use. Also, get population figures on every city, state, and army BEFORE selecting a method, so the DM can't weasel out of it.


Use WBL to get a scroll of Apocalypse From the Sky. Guidance of the Avatar UMD check? This baby basically wipes out a country for you. Just harden your safehouse against divinations, because this is going to be the hardest 24 hours of your life.

You could Dominate or otherwise influence world leaders into fighting wars. Show off some figures about how many people die from wars. Not just fighting, but "indirect" things like starvation and disease which accompany war. Seriously, depending on the population, those non-combat casualties should easily get you there within like 3 wars at most.

Fires are quite deadly, and in the right conditions can burn half a city down, roasting most people, crushing them beneath collapsed buildings, and killing others through suffocation.

[Acanous]

It's a shame you don't have access to Frostburn, because Fimbulwinter is lol. It's a 9th level spell (8th for a Sorcerer or Wizard, but that's irrelevant to you) that comes at the bargain bin price of just 100XP. It lasts anywhere from one month to just shy of one year in an area that's - at minimum - 17 miles in radius for a Cleric and, if you roll really well, it can dump as much as 1d6+1 feet of snow in the affected area every day. Non-stop for as long as almost a year. Snow falls, everyone dies (probably of hypothermia).

Rod of Maximize+Fimbulwinter=lol.

[Slipperychicken]

You could also help spur racial tensions (boy does D&D have a lot of those!) into genocide. Shouldn't even be too hard, with the Always Evil excuse. Goblins, Orcs, Drow and the rest of the Evil races are easy targets for racial violence.

Mixed-race/species people of all forms are also easy targets for your despicable violence. Especially half-orcs, because canonically no-one likes them anyway.

Don't forget religious violence, too. You have the same excuse: The other guys are Evil! The other guys are tainted by Gruumsh! The other guys literally worship the concept of Evil! The other guys are Good! The other guys are abominations! The other guys are icky! Our religion is Good and killing Evil people is long-term Goodness! Our religion is Evil and killing Good people is fun! D&D lore is practically begging for this kind of disturbing atrocity, all you need to do is take it to its logical (and horrifying) conclusion.


This should combo well with influencing/mind-controlling rulers into war. And you can use the racist (species-ist?) canon too, as evidence to gather public support this horrible campaign. Be sure to spice it up with some ludicrous claims like "all Orcs must eat a human child and sacrifice to a demon lord to complete their manhood rituals".

Getting the backing of a major evil player, like Asmodeus, could be useful in the short term. Be warned that you absolutely will be betrayed if your DM knows what he's doing.

[Tvtyrant]

A nice way to do this is a Wizard 5/Red Wizard 5/Incantatrix 10

"I'm terribly sorry for what I'm about to do..."

Spells: Fimbulwinter

Metamagic: Fell Drain, Extend Spell, Flash Frost Spell, Energy Substitution (Cold), and Lord of the Uttercold

Metamagic Reducer: Arcane Thesis (Fimbulwinter).

Maximize Spell and Empower Spell are gained from Circle Magic

Fimbulwinter (8)+Fell Drain (+2-1-1)+Flash Frost Spell (+1-1)+Extend Spell (+1-1)+Lord of the Uttercold (+0)

Energy Substitution (Cold) is required for Lord of the Uttercold.

Make sure you've raised your CL to 40.

Wait until winter. Cast Frostfell to drop the temperature so that it's a cold climate, for a +10 to your d20 roll for the effects of Fimbulwinter.

Cast Fimbulwinter. You might want Spell Thematics to make this even more epic. Maybe have it look like a wolf is eating the sun, or some such.

10 minutes later, an area 40 miles in radius, up to 20 miles away from where you cast this, is in the depth of winter.

But this winter is different... for one thing, it will last for at least 100 weeks, or up to 144 weeks at most. For the people that don't want to do the math, that's a span from a little less than 2 years to a bit less than 3 years.

For another, its cold is infused with the deadly embrace of the Negative Energy plane. Every six seconds, regardless of the actual conditions within the circle, everything takes 8 cold damage and 8 negative energy damage. And everything damaged gets dealt a negative level. Wights begin to rise within a day of the start of this storm.

And the winter's conditions themselves are a horror. The depth of the snow can range from 9 inches to 10 feet of snow. And the winds...

Well they can be anywhere from 11+ to 31+ miles per hour.

I'm actually planning for something like this happening to a populous city in the history of my campaign world. A city of culture is destroyed within days, while hordes of wights roam through the area and into the countryside itself. And even a minute or two of exposure without adequate protection can result in another wight joining those numbers...

Of course, as of the present, this happened a century ago. But they're still hunting the wights...



But, yeah, find a way to make this immune to dispelling, and I would say this is worse than the locate city bomb and AftS. Because they don't last as long, and don't have the horrible effect of forcing the survivors to watch their loved ones, children and the elderly first, die from the supernatural cold, and knowing from the icy feel of the drain inside your chest that you would be next...

And there is the horror of effectively making that 40 mile radius almost completely unclaimable; an explorer would probably see it as merely being a field of winter, and even if he was 20th level (probably a monk,from the lack of paranoia and foresight necessary), he would die after a mere 600 feet of travel.

Drop this on a major trade route, and watch as wars break out...

Happy Halloween.

Amechra from these boards posted a really cool way to kill everything. Reposted above!

[BowStreetRunner]

You need to invent automobiles, television and fast food - without including modern medicine.

[Pickford]

I'm playing in an evil campaign where we are looking to kill a lot of people. To be more specific, upwards of a million people.

In order to do so, we need an effective way to cause as many deaths as possible. We have access to the core books, as well as the completes. Our DM isn't supportive of powergaming or abuse of rules.

We are all level 9
Our party includes:
A Gnoll Barbarian (Myself)
A Githzerai Cleric
A Human Dread Necromancer

Money is an issue, and unreasonably expensive solutions will not work, but we are open for ideas that will be expensive but will work in the future.

In regards to time, we have anywhere from a day to 28 years (Gnoll lifespan). This is a lifelong goal, not a weekend project.

Thank you for your time.

First, you're going to need to determine the total population of the various kingdoms/lands you can work in. This may require research on the part of your characters (i.e. a lot of traveling to cities to meet with census takers, if they exist, and making knowledge (local) checks.)

Poisoning wells is all well and good (hah), but unless you're constantly carting off the bodies and/or have access to some spells to make potential drinkers not realize the wells have been poisoned, word is going to get out pretty fast that the water sources are no good, next thing you know a cleric is sent around to purify the waters and your plot starts to unravel.

I would suggest one or more of the following:

1) A magical plague let loose in major cities (providing the R-naught is > 0 it should be sufficient to overwhelm the healing capabilities there-in).

2) Start a war...but it'll have to be a big one involving many countries, or else you may only have a few thousand casualties...

Do you personally have to be responsible? Because that kind of negates #2 and makes #1 iffy...it also makes it 'really' hard to do without starting a cult that takes over a major city state and then begins waging war on other states and engaging in massive sacrifice of prisoners (with the strong allowed the option of joining you...kind of like in the Malazan book of the fallen series.)

Edit: The only problem I see with using big flashy spells is...they'll attract big flashy opponents who can dispel them and maybe kill you. Which, if you don't have a large army handy...may be problematic.

[Slipperychicken]

2) Start a war...but it'll have to be a big one involving many countries, or else you may only have a few thousand casualties...

As I said before, you're forgetting the massive civillian death tolls which come from famine and disease. Going by estimates for settlement sizes, there aren't going to be enough 3rd level Clerics to stop it.

Ratios of civilian to military casualties in 20th century conflicts range from 1/1 to 10/1 (10 civilians per soldier), and should be much, much higher in medieval societies with poor infrastructure, crippling supply problems in war, ludicrous taxes with no understanding of economics (you're not going to produce as much food when you're taxed into oblivion), inadequate protections against disease and bad weather (few armies even got shoes back then), and widespread disregard for civilians.

[erikun]

If you want to be absolutely inhumane and possibly squick out your gaming group, you could go with increasing population growth to unsubstainable levels. Create some sort of magical means of producing food and health to any number of people (create food traps, if possible) and watch the commoner population explode from doing so. Producing 5 to 10 children per family would not be unheard of with unlimited food and health care.

Then go around, ten years later, and destroy all the magical resources. Sit back as the 10x nationwide population proceeds to tear itself apart and starve to death.

[Telonius]

If you want to be absolutely inhumane and possibly squick out your gaming group, you could go with increasing population growth to unsubstainable levels. Create some sort of magical means of producing food and health to any number of people (create food traps, if possible) and watch the commoner population explode from doing so. Producing 5 to 10 children per family would not be unheard of with unlimited food and health care.

Then go around, ten years later, and destroy all the magical resources. Sit back as the 10x nationwide population proceeds to tear itself apart and starve to death.

My thoughts went to this method as well. For real-world historical comparison, if you're starting in 1500 or before, you pretty much need to be in China (a relatively well-developed kingdom with relatively high density of people) if you want to kill a million people in war. Otherwise there just aren't enough people around for you to kill.

I'd see if you can recruit some evil Druids to the cause. You can feed them some line about demonstrating how unsustainable humanoid growth can be for the environment, etc; get them to start providing the food and water, helping crops and people be fruitful and multiply, etc. Or you could go the Hydra Burger (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0326.html) route - that might actually be preferable, since it has a built-in way of eliminating the food supply whenever you want.

[Killer Angel]

You need to invent automobiles, television and fast food - without including modern medicine.

It won't work. They already have magical healing.

[Chilingsworth]

Economics, my friend. (http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2936#comic)

[b300mussolini]

well if you want to go for style points, dual bards with good fort saves or immune to exhaustion is the way to go. a friend of mine was telling me that there is a bard thing where anyone who is listens to your voice has to dance until you stop preforming. one bard uses that ability as long as they can until they run out of energy or begin flagging and then the other one take up and the first can go rest. rise wash repeat until after 3 days or so people start drop dead from dancing. move on to the next town and repeat until you have a million.

[killem2]

Couldn't a really good cloud kill work over most villages?

[ahenobarbi]

Couldn't a really good cloud kill work over most villages?
That would be slow. And would be noticed. So OP's group should expect pesky good guys...

[maxriderules]

Act as a good adventure party, helping to united good kingdoms to become powerful, while simultaneously becoming generals/ using your influence to ensure the generals are selfish and/or hate each other. Convinve the leaders that the best thing to do with this power is to wage war against all evil, then call a meeting with the leadership once the war is underway. Kill them all, then convince the surviving generals it was a power grab by another general.

Results? A civil war within the good faction, while the evil factions will be fighting against them because of the provocation. Villages will likely be destroyed, trade cut off, and it may lead to a definitive victory for the always chaotic evil races, possibly leading to more civil war when the common enemy is wiped out (see the cold war).

[Slipperychicken]

Convert into standard adventurers, then when the time comes and the fate of the world rests on your shoulders, destroy it. Turn back to your god and smile.

[killem2]

That would be slow. And would be noticed. So OP's group should expect pesky good guys...

Yeah, that's true. :(

How hard is it to animate/create zombie hordes (by DMG II RAW)

I ask because one of those garguantuan hordes dang near ran down a party of nearly 8 cr 6s.

granted there were other monsters too but when that thing hit, it hit hard.

If you could summon 50 of those, that's 1000ft of rolling dead.

[Shining Wrath]

Find a way to infect travelers with a contagious disease. Set up shop near a place where two major trade routes cross.

[MesiDoomstalker]

Find a way to infect travelers with a contagious disease. Set up shop near a place where two major trade routes cross.

Ideally the incubation times should be enough that it does not show up until traders get to either destination. That way, the chance of it being spotted and cured/quarantined before reaching your population centers is drastically reduced.

[Slipperychicken]

How hard is it to animate/create zombie hordes (by DMG II RAW)


It takes 48 small or medium creatures, or 12 Large ones (like horses). Should be no problem, especially if the necromancer and cleric work together on it. Maybe you can blow your animate dead limit on this, since big undead can be aquired via Animate Dread Warrior. After you make them, just command them to mob up.

And then the bastards turn into a 30hd CR 8 swarmlike thing with a ludicrous grapple check (15 undead+ 12 Gargantuan+Strength= +28 for your basic Zombie on a 10str base creature). Since it deals damage over time to creatures in its space, it can stunlock most creatures to death (combo with Silence for extreme anti-spellcaster brutality). Just grab a source of negative energy to heal it and you're golden.

[killem2]

It takes 48 small or medium creatures, or 12 Large ones (like horses). Should be no problem, especially if the necromancer and cleric work together on it. Maybe you can blow your animate dead limit on this, since big undead can be aquired via Animate Dread Warrior. After you make them, just command them to mob up.

And then the bastards turn into a 30hd CR 8 swarmlike thing with a ludicrous grapple check (15 undead+ 12 Gargantuan+Strength= +28 for your basic Zombie on a 10str base creature). Since it deals damage over time to creatures in its space, it can stunlock most creatures to death (combo with Silence for extreme anti-spellcaster brutality). Just grab a source of negative energy to heal it and you're golden.

Sounds awesome. haha.

[Flame of Anor]

Procure young female slaves (shorter gestation time the better)

1. Impregnate (various means to accomplish this)
2. Bring infant to term (or to point that it is considered a person)
3. Deliver
4. Kill the infant
5. Repeat


Even for a thread about mass genocide, this seems cold and calculated and ultimately too evil.

The OP wants to kill millions of people, and this is the only part that really worries you?

[Waspinator]

The simplest plan is probably this:

1: Get a wight or a shadow.

2: Feed as many people to it as you can without drawing attention.

3: Let all but one of them loose in different parts of a large city.

4: Go to a different city and repeat starting with 2.

[Lord Haart]

Is destroying the world while taking vacation on Planehamas an option? You're going to get a lot of enemies either way, and this way, you might even find some other party interested in good old-fashioned apocalypse. Besides, one million is a huge number in your bog-standart pseudo-medieval setting (and by "huge", i mean "once you run out of megapolisi, every one-town-at-a-time or even one-county-at-a-time plan begins to yield diminishing returns and as years pass, you are starting to doubt your goal"), while world-destroying gives quick results with some nice overkill on top (not to mention being responsible in a most direct and indisputable way possible).

[dascarletm]

Planehamas

Yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes.

Best thing ever.

[killem2]

If you knew where public gatheres were that were in doors, you could lock them in with invisible wights, and if there is a way to silence and area large enough no one would hear them scream.

make them all invisible again, wait for next service.

:smallbiggrin:

[UnjustCustos]

I'm sure someone has the build for a bard killing a village with a silent alphorn by liking them.

[Coidzor]

Is destroying the world while taking vacation on Planehamas an option? You're going to get a lot of enemies either way, and this way, you might even find some other party interested in good old-fashioned apocalypse. Besides, one million is a huge number in your bog-standart pseudo-medieval setting (and by "huge", i mean "once you run out of megapolisi, every one-town-at-a-time or even one-county-at-a-time plan begins to yield diminishing returns and as years pass, you are starting to doubt your goal"), while world-destroying gives quick results with some nice overkill on top (not to mention being responsible in a most direct and indisputable way possible).

Planehamas? :smallconfused:

[dascarletm]

Why not Locate City bomb?

[Karnith]

Planehamas? :smallconfused:
Like the Bahamas, but less "island" and more "seven mounting heavens."

Why not Locate City bomb?
Probably because it's dependent on a heavily-disputed reading of the Locate City spell (because it is, unsurprisingly, poorly-written).

[Tvtyrant]

Alternatively you could buy a group of permanent colossal animated objects. Chain fly onto all of them, and fly as far as the spells duration will let you over a major city. They will do tremendous amounts of damage due to weighing a lot, somewhere in the land of 20d6+1250d6 damage. Averages out to 4445 damage each, and each damage zone is 30 ft. wide.

The best part is that the objects will only take 20d6 damage. If you have the Repair line of spells, you can chain drop and then repair them forever. Dropping them on cities with apartment buildings would be like modern bombs.

[Waspinator]

Locate City Bomb is also the kind of RAW loophole that tends to cause the DM to make houserules specifically to stop it.

[Vaz]

Scroll of Gate; summon Simon Cowell.

[Slipperychicken]

I'm sure someone has the build for a bard killing a village with a silent alphorn by liking them.

I could turn them all into your Fanatics.

Just smack the diplomacy/Perform check of 50 (or 60, if you rush it as a Full Round action) to make even Hostile people Helpful, then use the Bardic Music effect of a Harmonica (from Song and Silence), which bumps them up one more step to Fanatic. Now they do whatever you want for [Charisma Mod] days.

[Chilingsworth]

Scroll of Gate; summon Simon Cowell.

Simon Cowell?

[Slipperychicken]

Simon Cowell?

Simon Cowell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Cowell) was on the panel of American Idol, known for being a famously critical and excessively-harsh judge.

I don't know what he means either.

[Pally din]

Ideally the incubation times should be enough that it does not show up until traders get to either destination. That way, the chance of it being spotted and cured/quarantined before reaching your population centers is drastically reduced.

Plague Carrier is a spell that does the Contagion spell, but adds the incubation / infection period back in. If the party does not have to worry about disease, then it can be cast multiple times a day, with different diseases, in different locations, all of which will spread before they are noticed. Throw in a summon swarm rat swarm for a bit more disease. And then there are some monsters you can summon, gate, bind, or find and release that can increase the numbers of diseases started per day. They key is to pick crowded locations. Inns, and slums work well. Silent, Still, and reach effects can let you cast without discovery, or memory modification 1 on 1.

A similar idea can work with captive and fed evil lycanthrops, since you might have a month for the newly infected to travel before they are discovered.

Or, if you don't care about the world, there was a thread around here about summoning some of the weaker, yet still apocalyptic, elder evils. Might have to gain some exp to level up a bit first though.

Shadows and wights are not the only replicating undead. If extreme cheese is out, then branch out to some of the other kinds, even if you have to find them (as opposed to create them) and bring them into population centers. Also, if all you care about is killing, then maintaining control of your undead is less of an issue. For the mindless weak undead you can trap them somewhere as you keep adding to them before releasing a hoard after days or weeks of creating. Battlefields for the bodies, and SLAs to avoid material costs help.

[Gazzien]

I feel like adding:
The Nyth (Monsters of Faerun, 68) split whenever they reach 60+ HP (and they heal from fire and electricity). They're Small Abberations with Fly 50 (perfect), a bite, and Magic Missile SLA.

-Create Demiplane (Hopefully with the fastest Time trait you can pull off)
-Use your favored method of massive fire damage
-Permanency it
-Contingency Plane Shift out upon casting Gate (or equivalent)
-Gate (or equivalent) in a single Nyth. (Heck, you could do it by double-PaO'ing a pebble, if you couldn't get a good way to summon one)
-Now that your Contingency goes off, go to the densest population center you can find.
-Open a Gate to your Demiplane.

Suddenly, the world is filled with glowing spheres of light that shoot Magic Missiles at everything.

Oh, did I mention that every time they split, everything within 30ft gets hit with 1d3 Magic Missiles? And they themselves are immune...

[Coidzor]

Simon Cowell?

He's the King of the Beavers? (http://www.weebls-stuff.com/songs/Owls/)

[Hyde]

I'd have suggested Locate City Bomb but it's actually pretty lousy at wiping out settlements, since any wall acts as a barrier. It's great anti-army or anything in an empty field, though.

[Vaz]

Simon Cowell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Cowell) was on the panel of American Idol, known for being a famously critical and excessively-harsh judge.

I don't know what he means either.

Known for making atrociously trash television that all but a few actually watch. People will soon start to top themselves.

Meanwhile, I'm off to watch more Blue Mountain State.

[Pickford]

As I said before, you're forgetting the massive civillian death tolls which come from famine and disease. Going by estimates for settlement sizes, there aren't going to be enough 3rd level Clerics to stop it.

Ratios of civilian to military casualties in 20th century conflicts range from 1/1 to 10/1 (10 civilians per soldier), and should be much, much higher in medieval societies with poor infrastructure, crippling supply problems in war, ludicrous taxes with no understanding of economics (you're not going to produce as much food when you're taxed into oblivion), inadequate protections against disease and bad weather (few armies even got shoes back then), and widespread disregard for civilians.

Sorry, my response was eaten by the interwebs.

The largest battle of the medieval era only had around 8,000 casualties on one side and only contained ~60,000 participants (at the high estimate) even assuming you manage to lead an army that completely annihilates the enemy force, that's a minimum of 125 battles(!) of the same size or larger than the largest historical battle of the equivalent era.

A quick wiki search indicates only in the modern era have combined casualties (including civilian deaths) regularly reached or exceeded 1 million for a war. Medieval era? I see 2...maybe 3 that qualify.

[Nettlekid]

There is the direct damage route, inaccessible to you but if you can find an 11th level Bard, then go for it. Bard 9/Knight of the Weave 1/Sublime Chord 1. Knight of the Weave and Sublime Chord both say that their CL is equal to their levels plus their CL (not levels, CL) in other classes. So...You now have infinite CL. Use a spell that does 1 damage per CL. Accidentally destroy the Material Plane.

[Flame of Anor]

Knight of the Weave and Sublime Chord both say that their CL is equal to their levels plus their CL (not levels, CL) in other classes. So...You now have infinite CL.

That could just as validly be interpreted to mean that they have no levels at all. Which is to say, if anyone takes a level in Knight of the Weave or Sublime Chord, they instantly lose all of their levels.

[ahenobarbi]

That could just as validly be interpreted to mean that they have no levels at all. Which is to say, if anyone takes a level in Knight of the Weave or Sublime Chord, they instantly lose all of their levels.

No. BCL - Bard Caster Level, SCL - Sublime chord Caster Level, KCL - Knight of the weave Caster Level.

BCL = 9
SCL = BCL + KCL
KCL = BCL + SCL

it can't be fulfilled by any real numbers (because BCL = 9 ) but SCL and KCL being +infinity (or -infinity) work.

[Pickford]

No. BCL - Bard Caster Level, SCL - Sublime chord Caster Level, KCL - Knight of the weave Caster Level.

BCL = 9
SCL = BCL + KCL
KCL = BCL + SCL

it can't be fulfilled by any real numbers (because BCL = 9 ) but SCL and KCL being +infinity (or -infinity) work.

Sublime chord says:


A sublime chord's caster level for both her sublime chord spells and spells she gains from other arcane spellcasting classes is determined by adding her sublime chord level to her level in another arcane casting class. If she had more than one arcane spellcasting class before becoming a sublime chord, she must choose to which class to add her sublime chord levels for the purpose of determining her sublime chord spellcaster level.

So if you were a Bard, the CL for bard is:

Sublime Chord Level + Bard Level.

and the CL for sublime chord is:

Bard level + Sublime chord level.

i.e. your class level, assuming you're only bard and sublime chord.

found this quote for the weave knight.


Your caster level for your knight spells is equal to your knight class level plus any other arcane caster levels you may have

So let's say you were a bard, then pick up weaveknight then subchord.

Say: Bard 5/Weave 5/Subchord 5

Bard CL would be 5th.
Weave CL would be 15th
Subchord would be either: Bard + Subchord = 10th or Bard + WeaveKnight = 10th.

There's no loops here.

[Shining Wrath]

Sorry, my response was eaten by the interwebs.

The largest battle of the medieval era only had around 8,000 casualties on one side and only contained ~60,000 participants (at the high estimate) even assuming you manage to lead an army that completely annihilates the enemy force, that's a minimum of 125 battles(!) of the same size or larger than the largest historical battle of the equivalent era.

A quick wiki search indicates only in the modern era have combined casualties (including civilian deaths) regularly reached or exceeded 1 million for a war. Medieval era? I see 2...maybe 3 that qualify.

I think there were many battles with higher casualties. Cannae and Salamis come to mind prior to the medieval era.

[Scow2]

Sublime chord says:



So if you were a Bard, the CL for bard is:

Sublime Chord Level + Bard Level.

and the CL for sublime chord is:

Bard level + Sublime chord level.

i.e. your class level, assuming you're only bard and sublime chord.

found this quote for the weave knight.



So let's say you were a bard, then pick up weaveknight then subchord.

Say: Bard 5/Weave 5/Subchord 5

Bard CL would be 5th.
Weave CL would be 15th
Subchord would be either: Bard + Subchord = 10th or Bard + WeaveKnight = 10th.

There's no loops here.What's with the bolded part? Are you trying to exclude everything it says before that?

Sublime Chord and Weave Knight are both Arcane Caster classes, so they stack with each other. However, trying to figure out if there's an infinite loop there is making my head hurt.

You take Weave Knight before Sublime Chord, though, and have Sublime Chord stack Weave Knight+Sublime Chord (NOT Bard+Weave Knight) levels for any loop to be possible. Weave knight stacks itself with ALL other arcane caster levels. Sublime Chord only stacks itself with one other.

[Flame of Anor]

No. BCL - Bard Caster Level, SCL - Sublime chord Caster Level, KCL - Knight of the weave Caster Level.

BCL = 9
SCL = BCL + KCL
KCL = BCL + SCL

it can't be fulfilled by any real numbers (because BCL = 9 ) but SCL and KCL being +infinity (or -infinity) work.

What I'm saying is that it would be fulfilled by BCL = 0. It makes about as much sense as an infinite SCL/KCL.

[Slipperychicken]

Sorry, my response was eaten by the interwebs.

The largest battle of the medieval era only had around 8,000 casualties on one side and only contained ~60,000 participants (at the high estimate) even assuming you manage to lead an army that completely annihilates the enemy force, that's a minimum of 125 battles(!) of the same size or larger than the largest historical battle of the equivalent era.

A quick wiki search indicates only in the modern era have combined casualties (including civilian deaths) regularly reached or exceeded 1 million for a war. Medieval era? I see 2...maybe 3 that qualify.

60k military deaths easily means 600k or more civilians. That's more than half the quota. And you could always do another war.

Also, who says you're only fighting the army? You could pad the the numbers out with mass slaughter of civilians. Sack their cities, burn them, kill anyone who tries to escape, then kill anyone who comes back. Either that, or death-marches. Claim they were resisting your rule or something.

Intentionally crippling their food infrastructure (burn farms, steal food supplies) could net you some more starvation-related deaths.

[Tvtyrant]

Sorry, my response was eaten by the interwebs.

The largest battle of the medieval era only had around 8,000 casualties on one side and only contained ~60,000 participants (at the high estimate) even assuming you manage to lead an army that completely annihilates the enemy force, that's a minimum of 125 battles(!) of the same size or larger than the largest historical battle of the equivalent era.

A quick wiki search indicates only in the modern era have combined casualties (including civilian deaths) regularly reached or exceeded 1 million for a war. Medieval era? I see 2...maybe 3 that qualify.

Well D&D is not exactly medieval, what with having magical medicine and combat. Moreover the population of kobolds and goblins is arbitrary, consisting of a few hundred in a warren or 1,000,000 in the field (the giant hordes that somehow come out of wastelands.)

And even within the bounds of medieval times you get the Battle of Yarmouk, with a modern estimate of 50,000+ losses on the Byzantine side.

[killem2]

Since you have a decent amount of time, how about:

Using the many gate shenanigans to get wishes, and just wish for money.

Continue doing this until you build a city of your own, pay your citizens well, put everyone to work, build it on a walled in area, sort of like Midgar in Final Fantasy 7, when when you have takening the census and it has gotten to your desired amount, end some lives.

Make the walls made of stone, but put force walls behind that. Fill with lava. Cash in.

[Slipperychicken]

Using the many gate shenanigans to get wishes, and just wish for money.


Might not work, because...


Our DM isn't supportive of powergaming or abuse of rules.

[Blightedmarsh]

Locus. If you can find a way to cause a lot of locus then you are all set.

Locus = Famine
Famine = War
Famine + War = Plague

Famine + War + Plague = Profit.

As to a method all I can think of is genesis an elemental plane of locus then opening portals to your target locations.

[Pickford]

What's with the bolded part? Are you trying to exclude everything it says before that?

Sublime Chord and Weave Knight are both Arcane Caster classes, so they stack with each other. However, trying to figure out if there's an infinite loop there is making my head hurt.

You take Weave Knight before Sublime Chord, though, and have Sublime Chord stack Weave Knight+Sublime Chord (NOT Bard+Weave Knight) levels for any loop to be possible. Weave knight stacks itself with ALL other arcane caster levels. Sublime Chord only stacks itself with one other.

That's bolded because it means sublime chord levels stack with whatever arcane caster class you're attaching it to determine both classes caster levels. And more importantly, it over-rides the normal method of determining caster level for a class.

So even if weave knight is determining it's CL based on all other CLs...that CL gets dropped to whatever the Subchord's is, which is based on class levels effectively. Thus, no loop is possible.

Slippery: That's from a single battle, and it wasn't 60k deaths, it was 60k participants, it was only 8k deaths. So 'maybe' 88k assuming that 1/10th figure...incidentally iirc, the ratio of deaths (from modern warfare which is far more lethal than medieval) is only 2 civilian for every 1 combatant death, putting total deaths from that one battle at 'maybe' 16,000.

Tvtyrant: That was around 600, I was culling from post 1000 to pre-gunpowder as a standardized form of armament (i.e. the longbow era, which is more around 1250AD - 1450 AD)...but more to the point...how many Yarmouks do you think the party will be able to achieve? Pretty hard to do imo, even in a standard lifetime and assuming they can raise an army/start a massive cult, etc...

They could just start releasing demons onto the PMP I suppose (planar binding many of them and order them to go massacre the innocent or something).

[Tvtyrant]

Tvtyrant: That was around 600, I was culling from post 1000 to pre-gunpowder as a standardized form of armament (i.e. the longbow era, which is more around 1250AD - 1450 AD)...but more to the point...how many Yarmouks do you think the party will be able to achieve? Pretty hard to do imo, even in a standard lifetime and assuming they can raise an army/start a massive cult, etc...


The issue with this is there are major battles in this period. The Battle of Las Navas de Tolosa, the Siege of Jerusalem, etc.
And warfare wasn't about pitched battles during the 100 years war era, it revolved around scorched earth tactics. In A Distant Mirror Barbara Tuchman discusses the effects of effectively impenetrable fortifications on warfare.

Invading armies would ruin the area around a city or castle rather than lay siege to it because the siege would kill far more invaders than defenders, and often would fail entirely. It would also allow the opposing ruler free reign over the rest of the country side. At the same time giving battle to invaders was a tremendous risk, as losing the battle could lose a whole region while waiting would force the invader to move on.

The effect on both sides was massive famines and plagues from burning food and crowding into fortresses. Losses through attrition were much higher than through battles, a fact which has almost never not been true.

[dascarletm]

The issue with this is there are major battles in this period. The Battle of Las Navas de Tolosa, the Siege of Jerusalem, etc.
And warfare wasn't about pitched battles during the 100 years war era, it revolved around scorched earth tactics. In A Distant Mirror Barbara Tuchman discusses the effects of effectively impenetrable fortifications on warfare.

Invading armies would ruin the area around a city or castle rather than lay siege to it because the siege would kill far more invaders than defenders, and often would fail entirely. It would also allow the opposing ruler free reign over the rest of the country side. At the same time giving battle to invaders was a tremendous risk, as losing the battle could lose a whole region while waiting would force the invader to move on.

The effect on both sides was massive famines and plagues from burning food and crowding into fortresses. Losses through attrition were much higher than through battles, a fact which has almost never not been true.

Yeah, but wizards and dragons though....

DnD is past historical references, especially depending on the campaign world. Is it Ebberon, Grayhawk, Dragonlance, DM homebrew?

[Tvtyrant]

Yeah, but wizards and dragons though....

DnD is past historical references, especially depending on the campaign world. Is it Ebberon, Grayhawk, Dragonlance, DM homebrew?

Oh I agree. I just think that would deepen casualties, not lessen them. Magical healing is offset by the need to fortify every single community to prevent monster attacks. A city becomes the target of every group of Ithiliads, Yuan-ti, lycanthrope, vampire, or other infiltrating type in existence.

[killem2]

Might not work, because...

25,000 gold a year however, could pay for many trained hirelings. That alone is 83k people or so paid for.

Surely that could create a pretty decent self-sustaited economy

[Forrestfire]

My personal favorite mass destruction technique:


Books: Core, Stormwrack
Requirements: Portable hole, riverine decanter of endless water, hunk of riverine, ability to cast fabricate, a way to remotely trigger a disintegrate spell.

Riverine is a material made out of force, and it is by definition unbreakable without magic. You start by using Fabricate to make a box with dimensions just smaller than the portable hole out of riverine, crafted around your decanter of endless water, which you activate to the geyser setting as you finish or before you finish. The decanter is now filling the box, so have someone strong drop it into the portable hole.

The next step is to just wait. Since the decanter cannot be stopped without the command word, it will keep pumping water into the box, and since it and the box are made out of riverine, they will never break.

What happens next will depend on your DM's knowledge of chemistry and physics. What I think would happen is that you'd get supercompressed ice and eventually fusion as the atoms are forced closer and closer, but he may just rule that it compresses. In either case, it should explode just fine when you eventually magically break the box.

If the DM rules that the water compresses, you should use the spell Water to Acid from stormwrack to turn it all to acid--the spell counts volume, not mass, so it will change the entire box's contents.

In any case, once you have your water-bomb in a portable hole, you have a few choices as to what you can do with it. You could bring it to the center of a city, drop it on something (it is an unbreakable, unimaginably heavy box), or drop it, then cast have someone disintegrate the box before it hits the ground, airbursting the box full of acid or broken physics. Either way, stuff will die. You can even reuse the decanter afterwards, since it's also made of riverine (if you can find it, that is...).

You can prep a bunch of these at once, and the longer you wait, the more dangerous they get. And even if the targets aren't grouped up enough to efficiently mass-murder them, you should get points for all the catgirls you killed making the bombs :smalltongue:

[Blightedmarsh]

The problem for this idea is that the gravitational pull from all that water may end up killing the entire world without you releasing it.

[MesiDoomstalker]

The problem for this idea is that the gravitational pull from all that water may end up killing the entire world without you releasing it.

It would take a while for that amount of water to build up. Lets take Charon the moon of the Proto-Planet Pluto as a comparison. Its gravity on its surface is a piddling 0.278 m/s/s and has a mass of 1.52x 10^21 kg.

The Decanter produces 30 gallons per 6 second round, or 5 gallons/second or just shy of 19 liters/s. As 1 liter of water weighs 1 kg, we how the rate of mass increase is 18.927 kg/s.

In order to reach the mass comparable to Charon's, you'd need to wait 2.547x10^10 Centuries.

The point: it take far far far too long to build up enough mass to have a sizeable enough mass for it to have a appreciable gravitational pull. You can recreate this with any number of smaller stellar objects, the answer will be the same. It take too long.

[Forrestfire]

It would also be in an extradimensional space until it was needed, so any gravitational pull would only happen when the portable hole is opened up.

Another idea to add to it would be to stick something in there that does nasty things on an atomic scale when compressed enough in addition to the water. Or several hundred of them, to make nuclear shrapnel to go with the explosion.

[TuggyNE]

Locus. If you can find a way to cause a lot of locus then you are all set.

Locus = Famine
Famine = War
Famine + War = Plague

Famine + War + Plague = Profit.

As to a method all I can think of is genesis an elemental plane of locus then opening portals to your target locations.

I assume you mean locusts?

[metabolicjosh]

I like the decanter in box idea. However, I would modify it.
Make a hole in the box about the size of 3 atoms across. This would cause the water to be forced out at extreme pressure, and the pressure would increase forever. Use the water saw to cut everything in half.

[Forrestfire]

I wonder what the craft DC for fabricate would be to do that.

Although that may break the portable hole or leak or something...

[metabolicjosh]

Portable hole cant break, but cant it be forced through a small space due to high pressure and kinetic force?

[Icewraith]

You're probably going to have to build your own city, make sure there are a million residents, then activate the hidden deathtrap you built into it just to make sure.

Or just adventure until you hit epic and research the appropriate epic spell. You could probably just drop the entire material plane onto the negative energy plane if you mitigate enough.

[killem2]

The problem for this idea is that the gravitational pull from all that water may end up killing the entire world without you releasing it.

Wouldn't that just grant the OP bonus points?

:smallbiggrin:

[Forrestfire]

You know, if you have a time-sped-up plane and a bunch riverine decanters...

Let's say they each take up a rectangular space four inches on a side (to simplify it, we'll ignore any gaps), we can fill our box with 9720 decanters of endless water. They output a total of 291,600 gallons per round, or 48600 gallons per second.

This gives us an output of 183,971 liters per second, so we're increasing mass by 15,895,094,400 kg per day. This is not that much on a planetary scale, but it's still a lot.

At that rate, we have an output of 5.8 x 10^12 kg per year. It would take us 2.62 x 10^8 years to get to the mass of Charon, and 1.26684 x 10^10 years to get to the mass of the moon. These are kinda infeasibly large numbers.

The SRD gives an example flowing time plane with the flow being one year inside = one round on the material plane. Using this plane means that our boxes will fill 219,000 times faster. So our box will have the mass of Charon in 1196.34 material years, and the moon in 57846.6 years. Close, but still out of reach.

If we could get our hands on multiples of these absurdly expensive boxes of decanters, we could, say, use ten of them and reduce the amount of time by one order of magnitude. This gives us about 120 years to reach Charon's mass, which is still outside of the goal. It would also be (even more) exorbitantly expensive.

http://what-if.xkcd.com/imgs/a/13/laser_pointer_more_power.png
Image taken from xkcd.com

By turning on the cheese, we can use an alternative to all that, and make a self-resetting trap of Time Stop, which would cost 500*17*9 = 76500 gp and 40*17*9 = 6120 exp. This would harness the wonders of infinitesimally-small measurements to have an amount of mass that can only be measured as "enough," in almost no time at all.

Of course, you'd only need one decanter for this last strategy, so all of the math I did earlier was invalidated. Oh well.

So, for a black-hole bomb to wipe out the universe, you need:

{table=head]Item|Cost
Chunk of riverine|~1,000gp
Second chunk of riverine|~1,000gp
Decanter of Endless Water made from riverine|~10,000gp
Small riverine statue|~1,000gp
Portable Hole|20,000gp
Time Stop trap|76500gp
[/table]

Along with the spells Animate Objects and Permanency on the statue (to have something trigger the trap repeatedly and interact with the box so it is brought into the time stop), and two Fabricates to make a box for the water and a larger box to keep the stuff drawn in by gravity from crushing your animate statue and trap.

And a contingent spell Plane Shift. You'll need it. :smalltongue:

So, about 109,500 gp and some exp to destroy the material plane in an infinitely growing gravitational singularity.

Does that count as a lot of people?

[Pally din]

Actualy, to get the black hole we need large amounts of mass in a relatively small volume. We can reduce the amount of mass needed by decreasing the volume. For instance, if you can get an earth's worth of mass into a golfball sized volume, you will have a black hole.

However, this black hole won't be too fearsome, at least in terms of instantly sucking up everything around it. That much gravity nearby will still mess with tides, earthquakes, etc. But if you could stabilize that blackhole at the center of the earth, all youve done is bump up the g's to 2. Granted, the moon won't like that, and I'm not sure what that would do to the orbit of the earth around the sun, but you are definately NOT destroying the prime material plane from adding 1 more black hole to it.

Now if somehow you cheesed infinites out of the mass generator, I don't think you'd have the time to escape after triggering the release valve. If your release valve is on a timer, and you leave early, hmm, how fast does gravity travel again? But in any case, a DM would be within their rights to say that inside your portable hole you made something that pinched off into its own plane and now your portable hole can only contain half its previous volume, but otherwise nothing dramatic happens.

Also, your DM would shout to the skies, "don't mix magic and physics!" and thow a book at you.

[Callin]

See thats when a GOOD GM will start clapping and saying great job. It works without a hitch. Bravo.

But

The gods all get together and go back in time and stop you from ever accomplishing said goal and throw you in an alternate dimensional plane never to be heard from or seen again. Make a new character.

OR

The god of death while pleased with the MASSIVE offering is upset that now he will never receive more deaths in his name and stops you from doin it.

[Forrestfire]

Hmm, come to think of it, you don't even need a portable hole for the second version, just the nested boxes, since I did find a way to cheese infinite mass out of it.

You could always have someone volunteer to die to say the command word and set the trap, plane shift to somewhere else before they start, and then true resurrect them afterwards.


... but yeah, the more likely outcome is that books get thrown at you. :smalltongue:

[Selein]

Not home, idk if itd work quite right. Curse lots and lots of gold to cause those who handle it to die tragically d6 weeks later. And and contigency the gold when its no longer ownd to cast locate object (or something similar) on the nearest intelligent creature. Sprinkle lightly throughout world for best effect.

[metabolicjosh]

Is there a way to make a disease?

Oh my god! You could use pun pun cheese to make a creature smaller and smaller.... then make them have babies! Make sure that they are aquatic subtype. Infect the world then have them attack at the same time!

[Pickford]

You know, if you have a time-sped-up plane and a bunch riverine decanters...

Let's say they each take up a rectangular space four inches on a side (to simplify it, we'll ignore any gaps), we can fill our box with 9720 decanters of endless water. They output a total of 291,600 gallons per round, or 48600 gallons per second.

This gives us an output of 183,971 liters per second, so we're increasing mass by 15,895,094,400 kg per day. This is not that much on a planetary scale, but it's still a lot.

At that rate, we have an output of 5.8 x 10^12 kg per year. It would take us 2.62 x 10^8 years to get to the mass of Charon, and 1.26684 x 10^10 years to get to the mass of the moon. These are kinda infeasibly large numbers.

The SRD gives an example flowing time plane with the flow being one year inside = one round on the material plane. Using this plane means that our boxes will fill 219,000 times faster. So our box will have the mass of Charon in 1196.34 material years, and the moon in 57846.6 years. Close, but still out of reach.

If we could get our hands on multiples of these absurdly expensive boxes of decanters, we could, say, use ten of them and reduce the amount of time by one order of magnitude. This gives us about 120 years to reach Charon's mass, which is still outside of the goal. It would also be (even more) exorbitantly expensive.

http://what-if.xkcd.com/imgs/a/13/laser_pointer_more_power.png
Image taken from xkcd.com

By turning on the cheese, we can use an alternative to all that, and make a self-resetting trap of Time Stop, which would cost 500*17*9 = 76500 gp and 40*17*9 = 6120 exp. This would harness the wonders of infinitesimally-small measurements to have an amount of mass that can only be measured as "enough," in almost no time at all.

Of course, you'd only need one decanter for this last strategy, so all of the math I did earlier was invalidated. Oh well.

So, for a black-hole bomb to wipe out the universe, you need:

{table=head]Item|Cost
Chunk of riverine|~1,000gp
Second chunk of riverine|~1,000gp
Decanter of Endless Water made from riverine|~10,000gp
Small riverine statue|~1,000gp
Portable Hole|20,000gp
Time Stop trap|76500gp
[/table]

Along with the spells Animate Objects and Permanency on the statue (to have something trigger the trap repeatedly and interact with the box so it is brought into the time stop), and two Fabricates to make a box for the water and a larger box to keep the stuff drawn in by gravity from crushing your animate statue and trap.

And a contingent spell Plane Shift. You'll need it. :smalltongue:

So, about 109,500 gp and some exp to destroy the material plane in an infinitely growing gravitational singularity.

Does that count as a lot of people?

Why do these decanters need to be riverine?

Also, and this is a fatal flaw, a Time Stop trap won't work because the trap will simply cause the trap itself to have 1d4+1 rounds of apparent time...the decanters won't flow during this time period...

[Forrestfire]

The decanters need to be riverine because otherwise they would be crushed from the pressure.

The second part can be fixed by having the animated object be locked somehow to the decanter, so it would count as its equipment and be affected by the time stop.

EDIT: On the knowledge check, 26 is the hypothetical human maximum for an intelligence score. If someone were to be higher than that and given 28 years with divinations and possibly magical simulations, I'd give them the ability to find out that sort of stuff if I were the DM.

[Slipperychicken]

You know, if you have a time-sped-up plane and a bunch riverine decanters...


Now make the Knowledge check for your character to know all of that.

[Yogibear41]

Here is a cool one; did you know you can stack Lycanthopy? Any humanoid or giant can contract it, and it doesn't change your type. What it does do is add a heap of HD and BaB to you character, and let you turn into things. Capture a bunch of different types of lycanthropes (werewolf, weretiger, werebear, etc.) They have to be naturals to infect people. Now grab a couple hundred 1 HD commoners. Give each one some temporary hit points and get bit and then healed again.

By the end of the day you should have a few hundred 40 HD commoners who will turn into raging monsters at the next full moon. Tie them up on roof tops on the day of the full moon in different cities, and let the world burn.

I actually think their is a rule somewhere that says if you contract a new form of lycanthropy it replaces the old.

[Waspinator]

If I were DMing that, I think I'd go "Congrats! You destroyed the world! Too bad someone else had the same idea on the plane you just escaped to."

[Coidzor]

If I were DMing that, I think I'd go "Congrats! You destroyed the world! Too bad someone else had the same idea on the plane you just escaped to."

Physics and the planes don't mix well for headache purposes.

[Forrestfire]

If my players sprung something like that on me I'd go "Well... I didn't expect that. You guys win this campaign, the plan goes off almost perfectly." And then offer to start a new campaign, where they are a group of adventurers mobilized to stop their own evil plan.

[TuggyNE]

Physics and the planes don't mix well for headache purposes.

For purposes of headaches, though, they mix great! :smallbiggrin:

[Forrestfire]

In any case, my apologies for derailing the thread for a page. Carry on with the mass murder :smalltongue:


For purposes of headaches, though, they mix great! :smallbiggrin:

I like the juxtaposition of this post and your sig :smallbiggrin:

[Waspinator]

Here's another fun one: stick your mass-increasing water boxes on the moon. Wait long enough and the increase in gravity should cause the moon's orbit to destabilize, smashing it into the earth.

[TuggyNE]

Here's another fun one: stick your mass-increasing water boxes on the moon. Wait long enough and the increase in gravity should cause the moon's orbit to destabilize, smashing it into the earth.

I'm not actually sure that would work… don't decanters, to be useful, create water moving at the speed of the current frame of reference? As such, you'd just be increasing the mass and energy of the moon at a slow and steady rate; the barycenter of the Earth-moon system would shift, certainly, but the exact effect on orbital distance is not obvious.

("Meo-urk!")

[Forrestfire]

I guess it depends on which version of the water-box you're using. We have one that fills fast, and we have one that fills infinitely fast...

Also, does this qualify me for the Catgirl-Killing Society?

[Shining Wrath]

If you set up a decanter of water and put permanency on it ...
And point it so the force is retrograde to the planetary rotation ...
Eventually it will stop the rotation of the planet. It is, after all, a perpetual motion machine, creating mass from nothing and accelerating it out a nozzle. For maximum lever arm, put it on top of a tall mountain near the equator.
If you want to ensure this takes place within 20 years or so, obtain several. How many depends on the mass and rotation rate of the planet.

Let's just say it can work.

And once the planet stops turning about its axis, one side will get hotter and hotter and hotter, and one side cooler and cooler and cooler. Massive storms will be generated to transfer heat from one side to the other.

This will kill lots of people.

[Vknight]

Apply Geysers to the moon?
Point them so the force pushes the moon towards planet
Colony Drop
Immediate Damage Massive
Dust Cloud and Aftershocks worse.

Bonus
Follow with Apocalypse From the Sky in areas unaffected


Demiplane illusion looks like city/paradise.
Invite villagers of the poorest walks of life into it.
Spread rumors around of a traveling band who know the way in to paradise even for the most vile people
Reality
Its a illusion and the place is just wights, and shadows, and vampires(Preferably LE, or LN)
Then open it in a metropolis and take over.
Use unintelligent undead to construct a dome to cover the city.
Gain flying undead. Have them carry portable holes with a group of shadows, wights, and vampires.
Drop the bag at night and repeat.
Good guys come to stop you
They enter a bitch black city you kill them and release Dread versions back to the world for chaos.
You guys leave the cities alone with a way to destroy the roofs as a secret.
Continue selling the shady Demiplane and eventually armies will rise to destroy your cities.
Join the armies and offer soldiers not long for the world access to heaven.
And then release them in enemy ranks for added chaos and suspicion that there is a disguised wight

[Blightedmarsh]

If you put one end of a portal in atmosphere and the other in a vacuum it will suck the air out. Enough portal and you would reduce to world to a barren airless ball of dust.

[Forrestfire]

You know, it occurs to me...

Is Nesier's goal to kill a lot of people or to kill all the people? Because that would have a large effect on what strategies are actually viable.

If some people need to still be alive, disregard everything I posted after the original acid bomb idea...

[TuggyNE]

I guess it depends on which version of the water-box you're using. We have one that fills fast, and we have one that fills infinitely fast...

But do we have one that fills infinitely infinitely fast?
It totally does qualify you! Welcome! :)

[nobodez]

If you set up a decanter of water and put permanency on it ...
And point it so the force is retrograde to the planetary rotation ...
Eventually it will stop the rotation of the planet. It is, after all, a perpetual motion machine, creating mass from nothing and accelerating it out a nozzle. For maximum lever arm, put it on top of a tall mountain near the equator.
If you want to ensure this takes place within 20 years or so, obtain several. How many depends on the mass and rotation rate of the planet.

Let's just say it can work.

And once the planet stops turning about its axis, one side will get hotter and hotter and hotter, and one side cooler and cooler and cooler. Massive storms will be generated to transfer heat from one side to the other.

This will kill lots of people.

For your consideration. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFAuX4PpRZM) (youtube link to a 47 minute long NatGeo Aftermath tv episode)

[Forrestfire]

But do we have one that fills infinitely infinitely fast?
It totally does qualify you! Welcome! :)

The time stop version doesn't fill infinitely fast, but it gets about close to infinitely as you can get.

Time stop makes "you speed up so greatly that all other creatures seem frozen, though they are actually still moving at their normal speeds (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/timeStop.htm)."

So since the trap is auto-resetting and brought into the super speed with the animated object, it would trigger again, accelerating the decanter (since it's equipment of the creature time stopped) to a timeframe where the previous speed seems to be standing still. Repeat ad infinitum.

So we get:

gallons in box = lim x→∞ 30x


And then the Quaruts come and murder you.

[Coidzor]

The time stop version doesn't fill infinitely fast, but it gets about close to infinitely as you can get.

Time stop makes "you speed up so greatly that all other creatures seem frozen, though they are actually still moving at their normal speeds (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/timeStop.htm)."

So since the trap is auto-resetting and brought into the super speed with the animated object, it would trigger again, accelerating the decanter (since it's equipment of the creature time stopped) to a timeframe where the previous speed seems to be standing still. Repeat ad infinitum.

So we get:

gallons in box = lim x→∞ 30x


And then the Quaruts come and murder you.

Wait, you can time stop while you time stop? :smallconfused:

[Toy Killer]

A self resetting trap of Heart Ripper (Assassin spell, Level 4)? with Animate Object Permanencied on it.

Create a couple dozen and let them loose on any civilization around. Sure it won't kill NPC Adventurers, but how will they ever meet if all the taverns are closed and no mysterious figures are alive to sit in the corner?

Further more, This is the only method mentioned (To my knowledge) that specifically Won't kill higher level NPCs, meaning it just cultivates the Creame of the Crop for the next generation.

Go team, Evolution!

[TuggyNE]

Wait, you can time stop while you time stop? :smallconfused:

I herd u liek shenanigans, so….

:smallbiggrin:

[Forrestfire]

As there are no rules specifically stopping you from, and you act otherwise as normal in a time stop, yes, you can. Again, at least until the Quaruts find you.

[Nettlekid]

Everyone's talking about "planet," but what is the shape/composition of the Material Plane? I has assumed it was an infinite or self-looping sheet, like most planes seem to be. Well, the outer ones I guess. The inner planes are more like infinite spheres of their element. Then again, there is sunrise and sunset on the Material Plane...Does anyone know how it works?

[nobodez]

Everyone's talking about "planet," but what is the shape/composition of the Material Plane? I has assumed it was an infinite or self-looping sheet, like most planes seem to be. Well, the outer ones I guess. The inner planes are more like infinite spheres of their element. Then again, there is sunrise and sunset on the Material Plane...Does anyone know how it works?

I think it's assumed that most Material Planes contain at least a planet similar in size to Earth (though many maps seem to be cylinders rather than spheres, I'm looking at Eberron here) with a solar system at least somewhere similar to our own (though some aren't helio-centric). Whether the Material Plane extends beyond that really depends on if you're more of a Spelljammer player or a Dragonstar player (or havent' thought about it either way).

[Slipperychicken]

Everyone's talking about "planet," but what is the shape/composition of the Material Plane? I has assumed it was an infinite or self-looping sheet, like most planes seem to be. Well, the outer ones I guess. The inner planes are more like infinite spheres of their element. Then again, there is sunrise and sunset on the Material Plane...Does anyone know how it works?

Don't you pretty much need a planet spinning around a nearby star for day/night cycles and seasons to work?

Otherwise, there's nothing for the sun or moon to "set" into or "rise" from, and both would have to crash through the flat surface of the plane every day (although this is admittedly awesome). And you have a hard time justifying seasons when the star and planet don't ever change distances.

And it also would mean you can't use stars to map your location (Stormwrack and other sources clearly establish this as a method of tracking location), because the Material plane's position relative to the stars wouldn't change, because it's not moving or rotating.


I always thought the Material plane was basically the RL universe (complete with multiple planets, stars, and other cosmic features) with all the D&D stuff going on in the earth-analogue, and big spooky aliens chilling out in a big spooky planet in the void somewhere.

[Mithril Leaf]

Don't you pretty much need a planet spinning around a nearby star for day/night cycles and seasons to work?

Otherwise, there's nothing for the sun to "set" into (or for the moon to "rise" from), and it just crashes through the flat surface of the plane every day. And you have a hard time justifying seasons when the star and planet don't ever change distances.

A wizard did it.

[Forrestfire]

Wasn't there a sidebar in the DMG that said the default was for it to be the same as the real world unless specifically noted?

[Blightedmarsh]

I thought springs to mind.

In ancient mythologies there are a lot of "just so" stories about why X phenomena is because of something that happened a long time ago. For example the Greek myth about winter being caused by Hades kidnapping Perosphone.

Why don't the players weave their own just so stories (quite possibly by driving the gods to madness). Give tales for future generations to pass on.

"....... and that's why:
the sun will burn you alive if you look at it"
the continents sank under a kilometer of ice"
we always cremate our dead"
you must never go out after dark"
your reflection can eat you"
rain is corrosive to good people"
dragons breed like rabbits"

[Waspinator]

Obviously, the Prime Material Plane is a disc being carried by four elephants on the back of a giant turtle.

[HurinTheCursed]

My post got eaten, I'll just sum up the ideas:

Get rich and secretive, began banking, offer kings attractive complex products till dependence, prepare a crash and a scapegoat, watch the war.

Get rich and secretive, buy food stocks, speculate, choose between war and civil war

Target bees with a disease, parasite or predator, spread it from multiple points. After consecutive bad crops, people will starve before anyone understands what happens.

[Zubrowka74]

Just fool the Kingpriest in banning all Evil and Neutral religions from the empire. And have him demand to the gods the power to control humanity and forever destroy Evil.

Make sure you leave the continent, though.

[Trasilor]

You know, if you have a time-sped-up plane and a bunch riverine decanters...

Let's say they each take up a rectangular space four inches on a side (to simplify it, we'll ignore any gaps), we can fill our box with 9720 decanters of endless water. They output a total of 291,600 gallons per round, or 48600 gallons per second.

This gives us an output of 183,971 liters per second, so we're increasing mass by 15,895,094,400 kg per day. This is not that much on a planetary scale, but it's still a lot.

At that rate, we have an output of 5.8 x 10^12 kg per year. It would take us 2.62 x 10^8 years to get to the mass of Charon, and 1.26684 x 10^10 years to get to the mass of the moon. These are kinda infeasibly large numbers.

The SRD gives an example flowing time plane with the flow being one year inside = one round on the material plane. Using this plane means that our boxes will fill 219,000 times faster. So our box will have the mass of Charon in 1196.34 material years, and the moon in 57846.6 years. Close, but still out of reach.

If we could get our hands on multiples of these absurdly expensive boxes of decanters, we could, say, use ten of them and reduce the amount of time by one order of magnitude. This gives us about 120 years to reach Charon's mass, which is still outside of the goal. It would also be (even more) exorbitantly expensive.

http://what-if.xkcd.com/imgs/a/13/laser_pointer_more_power.png
Image taken from xkcd.com

By turning on the cheese, we can use an alternative to all that, and make a self-resetting trap of Time Stop, which would cost 500*17*9 = 76500 gp and 40*17*9 = 6120 exp. This would harness the wonders of infinitesimally-small measurements to have an amount of mass that can only be measured as "enough," in almost no time at all.

Of course, you'd only need one decanter for this last strategy, so all of the math I did earlier was invalidated. Oh well.

So, for a black-hole bomb to wipe out the universe, you need:

{table=head]Item|Cost
Chunk of riverine|~1,000gp
Second chunk of riverine|~1,000gp
Decanter of Endless Water made from riverine|~10,000gp
Small riverine statue|~1,000gp
Portable Hole|20,000gp
Time Stop trap|76500gp
[/table]

Along with the spells Animate Objects and Permanency on the statue (to have something trigger the trap repeatedly and interact with the box so it is brought into the time stop), and two Fabricates to make a box for the water and a larger box to keep the stuff drawn in by gravity from crushing your animate statue and trap.

And a contingent spell Plane Shift. You'll need it. :smalltongue:

So, about 109,500 gp and some exp to destroy the material plane in an infinitely growing gravitational singularity.

Does that count as a lot of people?

There is one thing you are forgetting...mass effects time. As you infinitely increase an objects mass you cause time to shift. Black holes cause time to move more slowly around them due to their mass - its hard to grasp but time is related to gravity (which is related to mass).

Essentially you are talking about creating a black hole device (infinite mass). There are lots of black holes in the universe. While your ingenious invention would destroy the planet (and probably the solar system) the likelihood that it would take out a universe is pretty small.

[Forrestfire]

Good point. Still good for 100k, though.


For extra fun, add a contingent Reverse Gravity to the box :smalltongue:

[Nettlekid]

Good point. Still good for 100k, though.


For extra fun, add a contingent Reverse Gravity to the box :smalltongue:

O___________O
What. Would. That. Do? If you put only one of the 10 ft cubes of Reverse Gravity around the black hole, would normal gravity still pull in from outside that cube? So anything nearby would be sucked toward the back hole, reach the Reverse Gravity zone and suddenly the force of a black hole's gravity is pushing them away, and they crush into a singularity on that 10 ft cube border?

[Waspinator]

Somewhere, a physics professor is crying and he doesn't know why.

[wanderingbishop]

As a slightly more elegant, ironic method of population decimation...

Have the cleric and necromancer research and design a form of cure minor wounds/cure disease item (wand or something else easily replicable), that has a daily usage without recharge, and is significantly cheaper than the standard pricing, and, more importantly, can be kit-built - if you give someone with no magical ability a set of ingredients and instructions, then provided they're meticulous enough with their measurements, they'll be able to replicate the design without much trouble.

Money will restrict you from making too many to begin with, but if you sell them at a competitive price and put the money thus earned into making more, you'll be able to churn them out at a decent speed - however that's not the main way these devices will spread.

Accompanying these self-build healing wands will be a conspiracy-like story that you tell people, that magic users and clerics have been running a oligopoly for centuries, forcing commoners to pay their entire life savings just for basic healing needs to stop someone dying. But now, they have a way to stick it to the man! Take these plans for the wand, completely free, make more of them yourself, pass the plans on, spread the word, free healing is a reality! And of course, you will warn commoners to avoid bringing magic-users attention to these wands, as they will surely attempt to stifle all knowledge of them.

Months, maybe years pass, the cheap wands spread throughout the common populace, becoming ubiquitous. Some wizards may examine the wands and discover their hidden purpose, and try to warn people about them - but the commoners will hear none of their lies. They will continue to replicate and spread the wands, and with no magical theory, they will not be able to examine the design of the wand and discover the hidden purpose it was built with.

Because when you designed the wands, you included a dormant curse in the design - an undead raiser, or a contagion, or something that would easily kill all commoners in a mile or so radius. And on a particular day, perhaps some significant solstice celebration to Nerull or a similar evil deity... the curses all activate simultaeneously. Every single wand in the entire kingdom.

[TuggyNE]

There is one thing you are forgetting...mass effects time. As you infinitely increase an objects mass you cause time to shift. Black holes cause time to move more slowly around them due to their mass - its hard to grasp but time is related to gravity (which is related to mass).

Essentially you are talking about creating a black hole device (infinite mass). There are lots of black holes in the universe. While your ingenious invention would destroy the planet (and probably the solar system) the likelihood that it would take out a universe is pretty small.

Two things wrong with this. The first is that the flow of time near a black hole is not just weird, it's really weird: as you approach the event horizon, it slows down to a limit of basically stalled (relative to the rest of the universe), and then once you get inside, it speeds back up!

The second is that no existing black hole has infinite mass, merely a very large mass in a very small (perhaps infinitesimally small) space.

[Coidzor]

Good point. Still good for 100k, though.


For extra fun, add a contingent Reverse Gravity to the box :smalltongue:

Hm. I'm having trouble digesting this one.

[TuggyNE]

Hm. I'm having trouble digesting this one.

What, the Contingent "hyperdetonate the entire mass in one frenetic burst of kinetic doom" bit? Basically, you get millions of Gs of outward acceleration for the contents of the box for as long as they're inside the boundaries of the reverse gravity; once outside, of course, they start slowing down a lot, but hopefully the combination of their inertia and greater distance from each other will result in continued expansion for quite a while yet.

[Boom! Headshot!]

[Nesier]

Thanks for the suggestions, but I'd rather not use physics to reach my goal.

Also, we don't want to kill everyone, just most people.