Quote: "Beeps And Boops aren't Music".

[Margerine A Low Fat Cannibal]

I was having a discussion on IRC earlier with some members of a forum regarding videogame music. They were quick to declare that all videogame music isn't actually music, because "Beeps and Boops aren't music".

This is, quite frankly, bollocks, those "Beeps" and "Boops" are just instruments, and considering the instruments they had, then they created very masterful music to be honest, if I give you a pot, and a pan, and you create something with rhythm and beat by banging them together in certain ways, it's still music, and I'd respect you quite a lot for being able to produce something out of so little.

Videogame MUSIC is Music, simply by definition.

The hilarity of the fact was that the @s of the channel didn't like much their pure horse**** statement being destroyed by a single link to a dictionary article, and k/bed me from the channel. The best part of this was that the person who was so adamant that it wasn't music used the following statement as their core argument:

"I'm a musician, I know what I'm talking about".

http://70.85.240.179/html/emoticons/laugh.gif That's ridiculous. I'm a musician, hell, a lot of people here are musicians, it doesn't mean their opinions on music are any better than yours or mine, or anyones, but that's OPINION, this is just point blank breaking of facts. Beeps and Boops are instruments, which can be used to create music, if you want a perfect example:

http://www.myspace.com/nesmetal

Is that not music? It's created with entirely sampled "Beeps" and "Boops" from the original NES console.

Opiniones.

[Ryshan Ynrith]

Yes. Videogame music is music, and frankly it's one of the genres I listen to the most, simply because of the memories I have of the games. As far as just being "beeps and boops", go to www.ocremix.org and sample a few of their offerings, particularly the songs from the Chrono Symphonic collection. There is work and talent involved, both in composing and playing the music, and to have someone dismiss it simply because it came from video games is distressing.

[Tyriq]

I did a trapeze performance to "Evergreen," the ending theme from one of the early Castlevania games. People were shocked when I told them the music was from a video game.

[Nightmarenny]

Jeeze if theres anything I hate more than people claiming things arn't music its people who claim that as a musician there opinian on music is more valid. Well as a musician I think those with no knowledge of music are better judges as they arn't bogged down by all that that stuff we worry about and just focus on the important thing. What sounds GOOD.

[bosssmiley]

Synths, electronica and industrial say your mate is wrong. :smallwink:

Seriously though. The beeps and boops themselves aren't music, but then nor are the various parpings, thuddings, screeches and clangs made by the instruments that make up an orchestra. It's harmonious combination under human guidance that makes noises into music.

[Telonius]

I took piano for ten years, classically trained, so I do have some idea what I'm talking about. Video game music is music. It only takes two things for there to be music: Sound and an audience. (John Cage even challenged the first part of that with 4'33"). Some of the best video game music is just as good as anything written for a symphony orchestra, and actual orchestras occasionally play the scores written for video games. (Granted, the worst of it is pretty bad, but that just makes it bad music, not something other than music). I think the guy must not have played any video games since 1983.

[Were-Sandwich]

Somewhere on the internet, I heard One Winged Angel being played by a full symphony orchestra. It was awesome.

And most of the FF7 stuff is pretty good, Still More Fighting is very good guitar.

[WampaX]

Man, those haters must have been dead or un-living for the better part of the 80s.
:smallamused:

[Were-Sandwich]

Anybody know where I could find that orchestral OWA?

[Ikkitosen]

Man, those haters must have been dead or un-living for the better part of the 80s.
:smallamused:

:belkar: "Never say "haters" again" /:belkar:

:smallbiggrin: :smallwink:

[Closet_Skeleton]

John Cage even challenged the first part of that with 4'33"

You know whenever I hear about that (had to do him for a music project as part of school) I just think "wow, people were really gullible back in the 60s".

I'm sure John Cage was earlier than the 60s but that's the decade it makes me think of. It seems like a "break the establishment and nobody cares if it's good or not" sort of thing.

[Telonius]

Cage wrote that back in 1952, but yeah. There's a whole chunk of the 20th century in a lot of different creative fields where some people just took a step back and questioned what exactly their field "meant." Cage was one of those guys with music; e e cummings with poetry, and Rene Magritte (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magritte) was a painter who did the same. His most famous was a very realistic painting of a tobacco pipe, with the words, "This is not a pipe," below it. (Because it wasn't a pipe, it was a painting of a pipe). That was way back in 1929.

I don't think they were really actively trying to do the "break the establishment" thing, so much as they were trying to make people think about how they defined art. Doing so did threaten the artistic establishment, but didn't really touch the political establishment until much later when people in the 60s and 70s applied the logic to politics. (Any farther down that road and we're in real-world-politics-land, I think).

[Logic]

There is only 1 "song" I am arrogant enough to call "not music"

It's by Snoop Dog, and the whole thing is just someone mouth-clicking and saying "snooooooooooooop!" with rap lyrics.

[Serpentine]

Guh, rap. I'm more likely to define that as "poetry" than "music".
Anyone who thinks video game music isn't music should leave the results of a race on Super Mariocart for an hour. Now there's a catchy tune.

[Beleriphon]

Well beeps and boops aren't music, nor does is a piano string vibrating music. Music is what you do with the sounds that you're chosen instrument produces, whether its entirely electronic or acoustic.

In all fairness our arugmentative friends that caused this thread shouldn't consider any recorded music either since its produced from either magnetized tapes that cause a magnet to vibrate in a specific way, a set of grooves in an acrylic disc, or heaven forbid microscopic indentations in a plastic disc that cause a laser beam to bounce back at a slightly different rate.

[Ambrogino]

Anybody know where I could find that orchestral OWA?

It's probably the version from the Final Fantasy 7: Advent Children Soundtrack, which is both a fantastic track and a great album.

[Aidan305]

Disclaimer: I am a professionally trained musician, and as such my opinion is tainted.

One of the main problems with this sort of thing is the fact that there is no strict definition of music. This means we can end up with "Zadok the Priest", "Beethovan's 9th", alongside Cage's "4 minutes and 33 seconds" and Steve Reich's "It's Gonna Rain" (If you think that snooooop thing is bad, try listening to this last one all the way through).

An interesting quote attributed to Handel when in conversation with Gluck: "Zey have no taste for subtlety. All zey want is music zat wil bang zem on ze drum of ze ear".

As regards video game music, suggest they listen to something by Nobuo Uematsu, or perhaps Inon Zur, or maybe Matt Uelmen. There's a ton of them out there.

[Margerine A Low Fat Cannibal]

Guh, rap. I'm more likely to define that as "poetry" than "music".
Anyone who thinks video game music isn't music should leave the results of a race on Super Mariocart for an hour. Now there's a catchy tune.

Check out The Roots, and Creative Controle(Also known as Messiah J & The Expert), for some very very good, easily listenable rap.

[Were-Sandwich]

Rap is not music. Period. I weep for my generation. When my parents go on about music form when they were young, at least they have some good bands like Queen, Rush, Motorhead, whoever did I Think I'm Turning Japanese etc. What do we have? Eminem? 50 cent? Snoop Dog? Chamillionare?

Is it jsut me or do half their names sound like Pokemon?

[Jack Squat]

Rap is not music. Period. I weep for my generation. When my parents go on about music form when they were young, at least they have some good bands like Queen, Rush, Motorhead, whoever did I Think I'm Turning Japanese etc. What do we have? Eminem? 50 cent? Snoop Dog? Chamillionare?

Is it jsut me or do half their names sound like Pokemon?


Rap is infact music, however I am inclined to question the originality of the artist if all they do is sample other musicians and throw in a swear word every now and then. Older rap is pretty good, because it tells a story and does not try to get sales because of how offensive it is.

[Telonius]

Rap is not music. Period. I weep for my generation. When my parents go on about music form when they were young, at least they have some good bands like Queen, Rush, Motorhead, whoever did I Think I'm Turning Japanese etc. What do we have? Eminem? 50 cent? Snoop Dog? Chamillionare?

Is it jsut me or do half their names sound like Pokemon?

How about Cake? :smallsmile:

[Margerine A Low Fat Cannibal]

Rap is not music. Period. I weep for my generation. When my parents go on about music form when they were young, at least they have some good bands like Queen, Rush, Motorhead, whoever did I Think I'm Turning Japanese etc. What do we have? Eminem? 50 cent? Snoop Dog? Chamillionare?

Is it jsut me or do half their names sound like Pokemon?

Sorry, you're being just as thick skulled and idiotic as the very people you're campaigning against, rap is a form of music, you may not like it, but that doesn't make it "not music". If you think rap is bad, you just haven't heard enough of it. Try and find decent rap, the two artists I just mentioned are very good.

"Whoever Did "I'm turning Japanese" That's The Vapors, they were a one hit, one album wonder.

[Flak_Razorwill]

I think it's just cultural bias that persionally defines music. I like some rap. Mostly old stuff, and some very modern stuff.

On topic: Get an old video game song. Transpose it for a full orchestra and an accompanying chamber choir. Voila! It's suddenly music! I think the London Philharmonic did Mario once.

Like I said: cultural bias.

[Logos7]

I'm with the group that says anything that has sound is music,

THeirs like this big consipracy that says only hollywood and nashville can "make" music and the rest aint real music but its BS, anyone ( Including you) can make music, and no sophistication is not grounds for better music"

sorry their's a B in bonnet and a UGGER OFF in my underpants sorry folks

Loos

[Aidan305]

As an example of what can be considered music these days, one of my composer friends has recently written a piece which involves two people moving a bow back and forth across a cello, another doing random fingerings, and two others polishing the cello.

This is music.

[Beleriphon]

As an example of what can be considered music these days, one of my composer friends has recently written a piece which involves two people moving a bow back and forth across a cello, another doing random fingerings, and two others polishing the cello.

This is music.

Only in the most theoretical sense of the term. Music more than anything needs a sense of purpose, a process to create. Just random noises aren't music. When you can combine those random noises into a cohesive whole, that is music.

I'm sure we've all seen, or even participated, in somebody tapping their fingers and other people start. It turns into a beat, then something else. All of a sudden you have music from what would otherwise be random noise.

[Totally Guy]

Rap music is not my cup of tea. It's not got such a happy side really.

This is funny;Old rap! (http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/lookaroundyou/media/music/lay_rapping.mp3)

[Reiku]

I think it's just cultural bias that persionally defines music. I like some rap. Mostly old stuff, and some very modern stuff.

On topic: Get an old video game song. Transpose it for a full orchestra and an accompanying chamber choir. Voila! It's suddenly music! I think the London Philharmonic did Mario once.

Like I said: cultural bias.

Actually, there was a performance of videogame and anime music at a local college a few months back. Among other things, a man performed just about every theme from mario 1-3 strung together on a grand piano--he even managed to reproduce the sounds of the coins being picked up.

The interesting thing is that the piano notes he used for the coins sounded exactly like they do in the origional Nes game.

Sort of a reversal there, making video game sound effects with a musical instrument.

By the way, ever heard of Igor Stravinsky?

He played a live concert on a typewriter.

"Beeps and Boops" indeed...

[Aidan305]

By the way, ever heard of Igor Stravinsky?

He played a live concert on a typewriter.

Don't forget Stockhousen's Helicopter Quartet.

[Flak_Razorwill]

...Stomp, anyone?

That's all brooms and boots, there.

[Delcan]

Music is in the ear of the beholder. Almost any use of sound in an attempt to inspire thought or emotion is music, but even that doesn't cover all music. And it covers a lot of things that aren't, too. Music is hard to define.

The other day on my lunch break I got to see two guys with a bunch of trashcans come into the local downtown complex and put on an impromptu performance. They had sticks, metal cans, plastic tubs, and junk, and they were hitting them together with only a vague semblance of rhyme or reason, but nobody interrupted them - and they left with a decent haul of cash, too. Enough people thought it was music, and good music at that, to compensate them for their performance.

I'm not saying that music is what people will pay to listen to, that's not going far enough into the point. The point is that, whatever it was, it was music to someone. If it's music to someone, it's music - and woe betide the person who says otherwise.

(It helps that I'm a techno/trance fan. Beeps and boops FTW!)

[DocZoid]

Rap is not music. Period. I weep for my generation. When my parents go on about music form when they were young, at least they have some good bands like Queen, Rush, Motorhead, whoever did I Think I'm Turning Japanese etc. What do we have? Eminem? 50 cent? Snoop Dog? Chamillionare?

Is it jsut me or do half their names sound like Pokemon?
Of course it's music. And trust me, rap isn't the only music around these days. I will certainly be able to look back on these times and remember a lot of great music.

Ask your parents to talk about the music they hated, next time.

[Samiam303]

Bomb The Music Industry! and The Rick Johnson Rock and Roll Machine have both used samples from old Video Game music in their songs. Awesome stuff.

I have more respect for some of the old video game songs then I do for a lot of today's music. :yuk:

[AtomicKitKat]

I will gladly take video game music over the ridiculous amount of "sampling" that so-called artistes use to back up their raps. I'm looking especially at you, Sean "I'm too retarded to decide on a single name" Combs.

[nifty>>virago<<]

music is whatever you want it to be, not what someone else tells you that it is

[Grey Knight]

If we're looking into strange choices of instrument, Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture has a section scored for cannon-fire. :smallcool:

I'd also like to show everyone "6 Integers (http://www.mctague.org/carl/music/computer/pieces/6_integers/)"; it's a machine-generated piece based on the integers 1 through 6. Quite nice, too.

[musicnerd]

beeps and boops can be music, but i will never consider john cage to be a composer. never. ugh. i would like some thought put into my music, please. thank you. (hates john cage)

[Amotis]

beeps and boops can be music, but i will never consider john cage to be a composer. never. ugh. i would like some thought put into my music, please. thank you. (hates john cage)

Musicnerd, be mine. :smallbiggrin: Even though Mr. Cage is also mine, it's okay, you two can be friends.

[Ladoran]

People who don't think that games music is music needs to play some of the Lucasarts games. I'm mainly thinking of the Monkey Island games and mostly the first two.

On the other hand, the music from Monty on the Run and Ghost'n'Goblins is pretty awesome as well, as is the title song to Cannon Fodder :smallbiggrin:.

[SDF]

I consider music to be a combination of pitch, rhythm, harmony, and timbre. Which is why I don't consider 4:33 to be music no matter how many movements it is divided into. John Cage is a hack, and I have no idea why he is in so many music textbooks. The one genre of music I can not stand at all under any circumstances is grindcore. (id est Circle Takes the Square)


Oh music pretention, the most fun kind of pretention.

[Lord Herman]

I'd also like to show everyone "6 Integers (http://www.mctague.org/carl/music/computer/pieces/6_integers/)"; it's a machine-generated piece based on the integers 1 through 6. Quite nice, too.

Blimey, that actually sounds pretty nice. A bit repetitive, though.

As for my definition of music: any sequence of sounds that sounds nice.

[Amotis]

*whine* John Cage is not a hack!
He's not, name an American composer that's gotten so much respect from the rest of the world? Sousa? Yeah right...
...haters.

[musicnerd]

What about Copeland? and Leonard Bernstein and Samuel Barber!

I just played in a piece by Elliot Carter, he's pretty good, too.

[Zangor]

Video game music isn't music? The Desert theme in Ocarina of Time. Amazing.

[Shadow of the Sun]

Grindcore isn't that bad- it is better than nu metal or rapcore. Free improvisation is purity of music in my eyes- music that is just being played. No score, no words, just a musician and an instrument playing the music inherent to any human. That isn't to say I do not like other music, it is just that as an amateur musician I really like the concept of an entirely improv song. My favourite composer of all time would have to be Ennio Morricone. That man is a genius.

[Amotis]

What about Copeland? and Leonard Bernstein and Samuel Barber!

I just played in a piece by Elliot Carter, he's pretty good, too.

Not really...except Bernstien. Aaron Copeland isn't very respected because the world doesn't really see American folk music in that high a value. And Barber is just kinda famous because of who personally played his pieces. Though Venessa is pretty well known because of the awards.

[SDF]

Grindcore isn't that bad- it is better than nu metal or rapcore. Free improvisation is purity of music in my eyes- music that is just being played. No score, no words, just a musician and an instrument playing the music inherent to any human. That isn't to say I do not like other music, it is just that as an amateur musician I really like the concept of an entirely improv song. My favourite composer of all time would have to be Ennio Morricone. That man is a genius.

I don't think grindcore is bad, I think it is terrible. I am all for improv music, but I would distinguish it from banging on your instruments and shreaking incoherintly into the microphone. Rapcore has a lot of influential bands like Rage Against the Machine. Nu metal... well thats not my thing either. I love Morricone too, and I love The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly. :smallbiggrin:

[Amotis]

I don't think grindcore is bad, I think it is terrible. I am all for improv music, but I would distinguish it from banging on your instruments and shreaking incoherintly into the microphone. Rapcore has a lot of influential bands like Rage Against the Machine. Nu metal... well thats not my thing either. I love Morricone too, and I love The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly. :smallbiggrin:

Eh music is music. I personally love free jazz and am open to a lot of things. But that doesn't mean I have to like it.

[SDF]

Eh music is music. I personally love free jazz and am open to a lot of things. But that doesn't mean I have to like it.

Well that is why I don't invalidate it as music. I am just tired that every local band in Boise seems to be hardcore, grindcore, applecore, ect. But the fad is on it's way out so I can relax. I like my diversity. :smallbiggrin: