Psionic Illithd Stats - what book?

[gurgleflep]

Hello everyone.
I've looked through several of the books, but I'm unable to find a psionic mind flayer with a players stats. Would it be easier just to mess with some of their skills from the MM?

[KillianHawkeye]

The Expanded Psionics Handbook lists the changes needed to alter the existing Monster Manual mind flayer to operate with the psionics rules.

[gurgleflep]

The Expanded Psionics Handbook lists the changes needed to alter the existing Monster Manual mind flayer to operate with the psionics rules.

I've looked through it and it helps for them as enemies, but I don't know how it would be translated into a playable race.

[Karnith]

I've looked through it and it helps for them as enemies, but I don't know how it would be translated into a playable race.
You would use the standard rules for playing a mind flayer, except that you would substitute out the things that the psionic mind flayer changes. Is there something specific that you're having trouble with? Because I'm not really seeing anything that wouldn't work.

[Urpriest]

I've looked through it and it helps for them as enemies, but I don't know how it would be translated into a playable race.

It's the same way any other monster gets translated into a playable race. If you're unfamiliar with how to do that, I suggest reading my Monster Handbook, link in sig.

[gurgleflep]

You would use the standard rules for playing a mind flayer, except substitute out the things that the psionic mind flayer changes. Is there something specific that you're having trouble with? Because I'm not really seeing anything that doesn't work.

Ah, okay. That seems rather straightforward.
I was looking for a "As a player character" section for it, to be perfectly honest. :smallredface:

[gurgleflep]

It's the same way any other monster gets translated into a playable race. If you're unfamiliar with how to do that, I suggest reading my Monster Handbook, link in sig.

I'll read through it now, thank you. :smallsmile: I feel like I've read through this before for some reason.

[Keld Denar]

Psionic MFer is the same as a normal one, except that you drop the spell like abilities and give them manifesting as dictated by the book. It doesn't change the hit dice or LA or any other features of the MFer as printed in the Monster Manual. Thus, it won't change anything about playing a psionic one other than the fact that you have psionic abilities instead of SLAs.

[Karnith]

Psionic MFer is the same as a normal one, except that you drop the spell like abilities and give them manifesting as dictated by the book. It doesn't change the hit dice or LA or any other features of the MFer as printed in the Monster Manual. Thus, it won't change anything about playing a psionic one other than the fact that you have psionic abilities instead of SLAs.
The skills are a bit different now, as well. You get Knowledge (Psionics) and UPD.

[gurgleflep]

Psionic MFer is the same as a normal one, except that you drop the spell like abilities and give them manifesting as dictated by the book. It doesn't change the hit dice or LA or any other features of the MFer as printed in the Monster Manual. Thus, it won't change anything about playing a psionic one other than the fact that you have psionic abilities instead of SLAs.

It sounds - and is - a lot easier than I thought it'd be. I've already swapped out the mumbo-jumbo on it and plan on using it ASAP both in the campaign I'm DMing and the one I'm playing in (the DM's allowing it seeing as we're starting off as level 15... high compared to his normal 5).

[Keld Denar]

I've used them in my game as a DM...they do make things a bit more dangerous. A MFer bad guy doesn't really care about more than one encounter per day, so they can afford to blow all 90 PP in a 4-5 rounds. Their powers aren't too crazy, but Ego Whip augments nicely and spammable Psionic Dominate can be overbearing.

Just remember to save your last 7 PP for Psionic Dim Door.

[Eurus]

Psionic MFer is the same as a normal one, except that you drop the spell like abilities and give them manifesting as dictated by the book. It doesn't change the hit dice or LA or any other features of the MFer as printed in the Monster Manual. Thus, it won't change anything about playing a psionic one other than the fact that you have psionic abilities instead of SLAs.

Well, it means that if you take additional psion levels they'll stack with the innate manifesting. Very deadly as a monster, mediocre as a PC.

[gurgleflep]

I've used them in my game as a DM...they do make things a bit more dangerous. A MFer bad guy doesn't really care about more than one encounter per day, so they can afford to blow all 90 PP in a 4-5 rounds. Their powers aren't too crazy, but Ego Whip augments nicely and spammable Psionic Dominate can be overbearing.

Just remember to save your last 7 PP for Psionic Dim Door.

Are all of these things - Ego Whip, Psionic Dominate and Psionic Dim Door (are you ordering take-out?) - in the various psion books?

Edit: y'know what? That question kinda answers itself...

[gurgleflep]

Well, it means that if you take additional psion levels they'll stack with the innate manifesting. Very deadly as a monster, mediocre as a PC.

How's it mediocre?

[Karnith]

How's it mediocre?
A Mind Flayer has 8 HD and LA +7, meaning that it's (supposed to be) the equivalent of a 15th-level character. Mind flayers, however, have 9th-level manifesting, meaning that they are six levels behind the curve when it comes to powers. That is a lot. Combined with their low HP, low skills, low saves, and low save DCs for their abilities relative to what a 15th-level character would have, it's hard for a mind flayer to keep up with a party of equivalent ECL characters (assuming that the rest of the party is at least moderately competent).

More simply, reflect on the fact that level 8 characters are CR 8. A mind flayer is also CR 8. But its ECL is 15, meaning that as a player, it is the equivalent of a 15th-level character, even though as an enemy it's the equivalent of an 8th-level one.

[Starbuck_II]

Are all of these things - Ego Whip, Psionic Dominate and Psionic Dim Door (are you ordering take-out?) - in the various psion books?

Edit: y'know what? That question kinda answers itself...

Everything is in Core or XPH. No various about it.
http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/psionicPowers.htm
You can even look up this powers here since the powers are OGL.

[Keld Denar]

MFers have a HUGE Level Adjustment along with it's Racial Hit Dice. A MFer as a PC is the equivalent of IIRC a 15th level character, but only has 8 actual Hit Dice. That means that while everyone else is rocking out with 150+ hit points, you only have 44 (before gear), and never mind if you get hit by a Blasphemy (or the equivalents if you are evil), cause you won't even pass go, you'll just go straight to reroll.

MFers don't make good PCs. Nothing with rediculously high LA does. LA of more than +2 is generally seen as terrible with VERY VERY VERY few exceptions.

[Starbuck_II]

MFers have a HUGE Level Adjustment along with it's Racial Hit Dice. A MFer as a PC is the equivalent of IIRC a 15th level character, but only has 8 actual Hit Dice. That means that while everyone else is rocking out with 150+ hit points, you only have 44 (before gear), and never mind if you get hit by a Blasphemy (or the equivalents if you are evil), cause you won't even pass go, you'll just go straight to reroll.

MFers don't make good PCs. Nothing with rediculously high LA does. LA of more than +2 is generally seen as terrible with VERY VERY VERY few exceptions.

A smart PC one could enter play in a 8th level game. Have backstory that you got hit with 7 negative levels.
Then you have 1 HD and 7 LA. If you somehow survive, your 9th level manifesting (not based on HD) is great. Invest in Vigor power (mass temp hp to boost your own).

[Karnith]

A smart PC one could enter play in a 8th level game. Have backstory that you got hit with 7 negative levels.
Then you have 1 HD and 7 LA. If you somehow survive, your 9th level manifesting (not based on HD) is great. Invest in Vigor power (mass temp hp to boost your own).
And then you need to make a save against an effect, and you cry.

[gurgleflep]

A Mind Flayer has 8 HD and LA +7, meaning that it's (supposed to be) the equivalent of a 15th-level character. Mind flayers, however, have 9th-level manifesting, meaning that they are six levels behind the curve when it comes to powers. That is a lot. Combined with their low HP, low skills, low saves, and low save DCs for their abilities relative to what a 15th-level character would have, it's hard for a mind flayer to keep up with a party of equivalent ECL characters (assuming that the rest of the party is at least moderately competent).

More simply, reflect on the fact that level 8 characters are CR 8. A mind flayer is also CR 8. But its ECL is 15, meaning that as a player, it is the equivalent of a 15th-level character, even though as an enemy it's the equivalent of an 8th-level one.


MFers have a HUGE Level Adjustment along with it's Racial Hit Dice. A MFer as a PC is the equivalent of IIRC a 15th level character, but only has 8 actual Hit Dice. That means that while everyone else is rocking out with 150+ hit points, you only have 44 (before gear), and never mind if you get hit by a Blasphemy (or the equivalents if you are evil), cause you won't even pass go, you'll just go straight to reroll.

MFers don't make good PCs. Nothing with rediculously high LA does. LA of more than +2 is generally seen as terrible with VERY VERY VERY few exceptions.

Is there any way we can improve upon them to make them more effective and not so mediocre?


Everything is in Core or XPH. No various about it.
http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/psionicPowers.htm
You can even look up this powers here since the powers are OGL.

Thank you for the link and telling me the location, but what does OGL mean?

[Karnith]

Is there any way we can improve upon them to make them more effective and not so mediocre?
You could reduce the level adjustment to a reasonable number. Maybe to around +3 (which would allow eventual buyoff)?

Thank you for the link and telling me the location, but what does OGL mean?
"Open Gaming License," which you can read up about here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Game_License). The short of it is that OGL stuff is legal to reproduce/put up on the SRD.

[gurgleflep]

You could reduce the level adjustment to a reasonable number. Maybe to around +3 (which would allow eventual buyoff)?

"Open Gaming License," which you can read up about here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Game_License). The short of it is that OGL stuff is legal to put up on the SRD.

Lowering the LA sounds good to me, I'll have to talk with the DM about it and the buyoff though.

Thank you :smallsmile: I'll read up on that now.