Define Spellcasting Class

[Ruethgar]

Is there any official definition? If so please link it.

If a class received spells from one of their class features(such as a bonus feat) but did not normally have spells as a class feature, would they be a spellcasting class? What about spells derived from race? Of course LA 1+ racial class levels could easily count, but what about LA +0? Are they considered to simply have a racial class that has no levels? What about the HD related feats granting spells? Would they be racial, dependent on the class they were in at the time or simply not count as being part of any class?

[Keneth]

My knowledge may be a bit rusty, but as far as I know, there are no feats or features that grant you spellcasting if you're not in a spellcasting class. They may grant you spell-like abilities, but those are not spells.

Races that explicitly cast spells, like dragons, are the exception, of course.

[Kuulvheysoon]

My knowledge may be a bit rusty, but as far as I know, there are no feats or features that grant you spellcasting if you're not in a spellcasting class. They may grant you spell-like abilities, but those are not spells.

Races that explicitly cast spells, like dragons, are the exception, of course.

Dragon Devotee (RotD) grants you 2 levels of sorceror casting over five levels. Grants you, mind you, not advances.

[Morcleon]

I can't find an official definition, but this is what I would use.

A spellcasting class is a class, whether base or prestige, that has a class feature labeled "Spells". For example, see the sorcerer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/sorcererWizard.htm#sorcerer).

For classes that do not get spells until level x, they are not a spellcasting class until they reach level x and gain the "Spells" class feature.

[Coidzor]

Is there any official definition? If so please link it.

If a class received spells from one of their class features(such as a bonus feat) but did not normally have spells as a class feature, would they be a spellcasting class? What about spells derived from race? Of course LA 1+ racial class levels could easily count, but what about LA +0? Are they considered to simply have a racial class that has no levels? What about the HD related feats granting spells? Would they be racial, dependent on the class they were in at the time or simply not count as being part of any class?

Just because you can make a Fighter that casts spells, that doesn't make Fighter a spellcasting class.

[Bakeru]

Adding to what Keneth said: A dragon is a "real" spellcaster, but that's because he explicitely casts spells "as a sorcerer of Xth level". Same with nymphs that cast spells "as a druid of Xth level" and such.

But a class is only a spellcasting class if it itself gives you access to actual spellcasting. Spell-like abilities don't count. Feats don't count. Race doesn't count. They're all either not true spellcasting, and/or not part of the class.


And in general, I really have the feeling you mixed up "spell-like abilities" and "spellcasting", but I can't be entirely sure about that.

[Keneth]

Dragon Devotee (RotD) grants you 2 levels of sorceror casting over five levels. Grants you, mind you, not advances.

Which makes it a spellcasting prestige class. I don't see confusion or possible exploits here.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Which makes it a spellcasting prestige class. I don't see confusion or possible exploits here.

It grants spellcasting as a class feature when you're not in a spellcasting class. In your first post, you asked for anything that granted spells as a class feature. I obliged.:smallbiggrin:

[Ruethgar]

I have a small handful of feats at my disposal that actually give a couple zero level spells instead of the slightly more common SLA's as well as one or two templates in my library.

If you take monster levels as say a dragon or another race that grants similar casting, would those racial levels be considered as a spellcaster?

Also I've only seen opinion here thus far, did WotC just not see fit to define it?

[Keneth]

It grants spellcasting as a class feature when you're not in a spellcasting class. In your first post, you asked for anything that granted spells as a class feature. I obliged. :smallbiggrin:

The prestige class is a spellcasting class. It doesn't make any of your base classes a spellcasting class. It's no different in that aspect than any other PrC that grants you spellcasting, except the levels count as sorcerer levels.

Edit: Would you mind pointing out those feats and templates, Ruethgar? Also, templates and racial hit dice are not classes, although some alternative rules might allow you to progress their HD as a class. Feats are not classes either. The definition of spellcasting class is not transitive. If the class grants you a feat and the feat somehow grants you spells, the class is still not a spellcasting class, it's a class that grants you feats. And no, there is no explicit definition for "spellcasting class", since it's self-defined as a class that inherently grants spellcasting.

[Ruethgar]

Magical Training is the primary feat I'm looking at, the Beast Lord Template and Arcane Servitor both grant spellcasting, though I never use them. I was thinking of Savage Species with the monster class levels. Also, what else can you have levels in if not classes?

[Keneth]

Well, monster classes are an alternative 3.0 rule and it's up to the DM to decide how these classes are defined, since they have special rules. By default, templates and HD do not count as class levels. I am also not familiar with either of those templates. Where are they from?

Magical Training does indeed grant you spellcasting and you are treated as if being a first level sorcerer or wizard. It has no bearing on the class that you got this feat from whatsoever.

[Ruethgar]

Book of Templates Deluxe Edition, yay obscure 3rd party! Creatures with racial HD are referred to as having a "monster class" in MM1 3.5 and are continually referred to as having levels in their race throughout all three MMs I have. By the D&D glossary there are only caster level, character level, class level, and spell level which makes me question what category outsider/humanoid/dragon etc. levels would fall in to if not class.

[Coidzor]

If you take monster levels as say a dragon or another race that grants similar casting, would those racial levels be considered as a spellcaster?

A rakshasa (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/rakshasa.htm), gloura (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003e), nymph (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/nymph.htm), or dragon can take levels in a Prestige Class that requires casting, aye.

You can't really "take monster levels" in something aside from savage progressions and homebrew monster classes, though. When something like "a level in Monstrous Humanoid" is mentioned, it's mostly as an aid for the reader to understand how monster hit dice work.

[Flickerdart]

A spellcasting class is a class that casts spells. A class that grants you bonus feats is not a spellcasting class, even if you use those bonus feats to pick up Magical Training, because it's the feat, not the class feature, that grants the spells.

[Ruethgar]

A rakshasa (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/rakshasa.htm), gloura (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003e), nymph (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/nymph.htm), or dragon can take levels in a Prestige Class that requires casting, aye.

You can't really "take monster levels" in something aside from savage progressions and homebrew monster classes, though. When something like "a level in Monstrous Humanoid" is mentioned, it's mostly as an aid for the reader to understand how monster hit dice work.

A commoner could take a PrC that requires casting, I want to know if those racial level count as spellcaster levels/a spellcasting class.

[Keneth]

They only qualify for the prerequisites when the rules block specifically states the monster casts spells as an X class of Y level. Racial hit die, be it outsider, magical beast, dragon, or whatever don't count as levels in a spellcasting class.

A nymph commoner 3, can take levels in a prestige class that requires you to have levels in a spellcasting class or one that requires you to be able to cast 3rd level divine spells, for instance.

[Susano-wo]

I would agree that the class has to have a 'spells' section in its class features to be spellcasting. A PF example of what the OP seems to be talking about would be rogues, who using two rogue trick options (granted every 2 levels) can have a 0th...oops, nope those are spell-likes :smallredface:

So yeah, not sure if any class that does not have "spells" would actually be able to cast spells anyway