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jguy
2013-04-08, 04:06 PM
I have come across a recurring theme when it comes to capturing enemies and interrogating them; the DM never seems to want to give anything up even to the point of ridiculousness. I don't know if this is due to being caught unprepared with what the guy knows, or an unwillingness to reveal plot-sensitive information early on in a game.

On scenario was we caught a enemy combatant in a d20 scifi game while trying to infilitrate a base. We started interrogating them and began with "we're not going to torture you, we'll let you live if you tell us what we want." She takes a suicide pill. Thankfully my character was a medic and another was a very skilled biologist so we prevented the death. Dm Fiat suddenly makes the prisoner a mindwiped victim who knows nothing, but even while we interrogated her, she remained very obstinate. This is despite the fact she is basically a civilian, stripped down to civvies, and we all have guns.

Another time, we capture a guy in a D&D game. He is knocked out and we have the wizard cast detect thoughts on them so they can't save then we start interrogating him. The DM states that we are getting no valuable surface thoughts as we question them. Turns out this guy is a cleric of Vecna and is trained to never have surface thoughts when being question, despite the fact they didn't know detect thoughts was happening.

With D&D, there also seems to be an annoying pattern to flip-floping skill usage to interrogate. Say you have a massive diplomacy, bluff, and intimidate score but aren't so good with roleplay. You say "I interrogate him for info" and roll incredibly well. DM says "You need to roleplay the interrogation, you can't just get answers for rolling well." Then, suddenly, the opposite is true. A guy who is really good at roleplaying questions a perp with great logic and arguments. DM makes him roll his skill but he's playing a fighter or something and rolls like a 5. DM says "Guys tells you nothing" despite all the circumstances.

Then, if you are tired of just being Mr. Nice guy with interrogating, if you even try to apply the mildest of physical discomfort, suddenly you are a insane torturer who is EVIL and everyone looks at you like a monster. It just makes you want to kill everyone and use Speak with Dead on the corpses.

Big Fau
2013-04-08, 04:10 PM
It sounds like your DM has a phobia of revealing the plot to you, or just isn't planning ahead for anything. You'd likely have the same problems with other Divination spells.

Have you spoken to him about this?

tensai_oni
2013-04-08, 04:20 PM
Sounds like you're playing with lazy or just bad DMs. If my players started to interrogate captured mooks... well, they're mooks. They don't know anything important, because major antagonists are rarely stupid enough to give sensitive information to mere flunkies. Best they can get from an interrogation is a contact place where the bad guys meet or something similar like that - which is not sensitive info that ruins the game. It's a plot hook.

jguy
2013-04-08, 04:29 PM
Even the most minor of details extracted from an interrogation is like pulling teeth. At one point, a mook was willing to die a painful death than rather give the key code to the front door. When argued about the realism of the statement, the dm just said "He's very loyal".

Lorsa
2013-04-08, 04:38 PM
Well, personally I'd say that your DM is pretty poor. If you manage you catch an enemy alive then that should yeild a logical consequence of valuable information.

JoshuaZ
2013-04-08, 04:47 PM
Speaking as someone currently DMing a campaign where the players have proven surprisingly effective at capturing people, it can be really annoying to have large swaths of plot be revealed this way. But if they do capture, and the guy is a mook, yeah, they should reveal stuff if one succeeds at interrogating them.

SgtCarnage92
2013-04-08, 04:53 PM
And here I thought this was going to be a post about players constantly coming up with the most brutal forms of torture imaginable just so they can maim any hapless NPC they are trying to question. I'm not squeamish by any means, but it gets ridiculous and frankly it's unnecessary. My players almost never actually let their prisoners live either. This happens regardless of alignment. (I tend to have players who run in the CN territory a lot so this may be a symptom of that.) They don't believe me when I tell them that torture isn't all that an effective method of getting information anyway. The THREAT of torture however...

Back to the original topic and not just my useless ramblings, yeah it sounds like your GM just doesn't know how to adjudicate this kind of thing. How much experience does your GM have? There's plenty of ways to still allow interrogations and not give up really plot relevant information. Any big bad worth his salt won't give his goons all the information purely because of the chance they will be captured by the enemy. The suicide pill is a smart move especially if they're blindly loyal goons, but seeing as your quick action saved him, you should get a reward for that. Just because the players have information doesn't mean they know what to do with it or how significant it actually is. Detect thoughts DOES have a save attached to it IIRC, so in theory a character could be disciplined enough to resist, but there would be a roll involved.

The consistency in the mechanics thing is really annoying and you should talk to him about it. While I think that the social rolls do require something more than just "I rolled a 30 diplomacy he tells me everything," there has to be some level of consistency in how it's handled.

Steward
2013-04-08, 04:54 PM
I think that DMs playing in campaigns should think slightly ahead to see what kind of information a given category of enemy would have. If you capture the orc guarding the door, he's probably not going to have a key to the master lich's secret astral gate or know the intricacies of the plan, but he would probably know the guard rotation for the sector he is protecting.

I would also modulate the captive's obstinacy to be reasonable based on the circumstances. The aforementioned unpaid, dimwitted thug is probably not going to have the same fanatical loyalty to the lich as the main villain's top right-hand man. Though you might find the opposite scenario to be true if the bad guys are all part of a band of brothers type situation where their loyalty and respect for each other is unbreakable.

Long story short, it just has to make sense. If every single person they capture and question is fanatically loyal to the point of death for no apparent reason, it just makes it boring. You might as well just tell the PCs up front that it's a straight dungeon crawl and that there is no way to unravel the mystery before it unfolds on its own. Allowing them to think that they can take positive action to investigation is kind of misleading if you're going to stymie even reasonable attempts to obtain rudimentary information.

scurv
2013-04-08, 05:40 PM
Loyalty of that degree could imply fanatic followers who are brain washed. But if your DM is using that much fiat to get the job done just take a break next time your group captures someone and tell them to get you when they are done questioning.

Last time I had a DM doing something such as this, I kept track of the rolls needed to get information out of the least of mooks and then went off looking for the bbeg that could inspire people to that extent after loading up on mind protection enchantments. He got a bit pissy but I pointed out to him that the recently recruited street thug (1 game day) would not give up information even after he had both of his legs and arms slowly removed, and was made to eat his own eyes and other assorted body parts.

AntiTrust
2013-04-08, 06:03 PM
In d&d where magic is used regularly such as detect thoughts and other divinations I'm pretty sure low level thugs wouldn't be trust with anything more than the smallest of details, BBEGs with half a brain won't tell mooks anything important. If you're catching something akin to a lieutenant aka a mini boss and the DM is still giving you nothing then you've got an issue unless the story specifically answers the question of "how the hell does no one know anything"

What you tell us is happening is rather silly I think since the whole point of "you need to roleplay interrogation" is so you and the DM can have a back and forth exchange that adds to the fun of the game rather than blowing past the opportunity with a die roll

I actually have a similar problem with our DM and his npcs, they are all just unhelpful ***** who you have to argue with tooth and nail to even find out the weather. Detect Thoughts is a crapshoot with these people too, 75% chance the only thing they think about is what they'd like to do to our female players. And this is just npc's we talk to on the street, people we capture oh god I totally agree its just better to not take them and hope for speak with dead, its certainly a faster way for the DM to tell us "he doesn't know anything". Unfortunately I wish I could tell you we solved this issue, but I think its what other posters have said, he hasn't prepared for what they know so he just defaults into incredible stubborn. Our group simply reminds him when it comes up and hope he hears what we're saying.

Grinner
2013-04-08, 06:52 PM
Even the most minor of details extracted from an interrogation is like pulling teeth. At one point, a mook was willing to die a painful death than rather give the key code to the front door. When argued about the realism of the statement, the dm just said "He's very loyal".

Well there's half your problem. You need to start actually pulling teeth (as well as fingernails). :smallwink:

chainlink
2013-04-08, 07:07 PM
Bad DM. People think you can take any 'ole cliched plot and stick it in a D&D world with no thought.

Pro tip; magic, prepare for it. If your DM isn't prepared for capture and torture let alone every thing else you can be doing they are not DMing and just reciting a story and hoping you don't stray too far.

Slipperychicken
2013-04-08, 07:28 PM
Agreeing that your DM sucks and has completely failed to plan ahead. Maybe you can get him to give you concrete rules for interrogation (or just use the BoVD rules). If he doesn't comply, maybe you could take the load off his lazy arse by not playing with him.



Then, if you are tired of just being Mr. Nice guy with interrogating, if you even try to apply the mildest of physical discomfort, suddenly you are a insane torturer who is EVIL and everyone looks at you like a monster. It just makes you want to kill everyone and use Speak with Dead on the corpses.

Do you mean NPCs, or the people at the table with you in meatspace? If just the former, no problems, they don't have to hear about it. If the latter, consider getting another group.

Verbannon
2013-04-08, 07:29 PM
Yeah sounds like a unskilled DM. Personally I normally just have a successful interrogation result in a bonus to future relevant checks. Sometimes they'll want to know something specific and if the guy knows the info then I have him give it up and just work from there.

prufock
2013-04-08, 07:36 PM
We started interrogating them and began with "we're not going to torture you, we'll let you live if you tell us what we want." She takes a suicide pill. Thankfully my character was a medic and another was a very skilled biologist so we prevented the death. Dm Fiat suddenly makes the prisoner a mindwiped victim who knows nothing, but even while we interrogated her, she remained very obstinate. This is despite the fact she is basically a civilian, stripped down to civvies, and we all have guns.
While it is reasonable for a villain to take certain precautions against his minions being interrogated, this is a bit much. People can be brainwashed, people can be loyal, but pretty much everyone in the world will prefer to talk rather than die/suffer. This doesn't mean they'll tell the truth, though.


Turns out this guy is a cleric of Vecna and is trained to never have surface thoughts when being question, despite the fact they didn't know detect thoughts was happening.
Could be a homebrew feat or domain power or something that your DM whipped up. Or it could just be your DM's way of describing him passing his save. Reading his thoughts while he's unconscious would only get you odd dreams at best, and the saving throw prevents your surface thoughts from being read, not from the spell working, so he's surely entitled to a save after he wakes up.


With D&D, there also seems to be an annoying pattern to flip-floping skill usage to interrogate.
The mechanics are designed to resolve conflict through rolls, but it's also a roleplaying game. I see no problem with requiring that the dice roll be acted out.


if you even try to apply the mildest of physical discomfort, suddenly you are a insane torturer who is EVIL and everyone looks at you like a monster.
Well one evil act shouldn't change your alignment, though a pattern of such behaviour should. Even then it should change to neutral first. But rule #1 of torture is not to let anyone other than your victim know you're doing it. The only people who should know your alignment are clerics and paladins.

Short version: Your DM is almost certainly fudging to save how he thinks the plot should go. This is not a good move for a DM, just a few hops short of railroading. However you shouldn't expect interrogation to work all the time, either. Enemies, even captured ones, will lie, pass saves, be clueless, or in extreme cases prefer death and suffering to betraying their masters. If they have one method of protection, change your tactics. If you find that the DM still fudges so you learn nothing, do like you said and stop taking prisoners, just kill your enemies and speak with dead.

icefractal
2013-04-08, 07:57 PM
Interrogation is something that I don't think you'd want to roleplay that much in most cases. I mean yes, you need to state what you're asking and offering/threatening, in general terms, but most people don't want to hear torture descriptions or even detailed threats.

But yes, in this case it sounds like an unprepared DM rather clumsily trying to avoid giving information. I've run into this before and it's pretty annoying.

My suggestion would be:
1) Talk with the DM. This is usually the best way.

If he won't change it then either:
2A) Don't even bother.
2B) Use "hard" methods like Speak with Dead, Probe Thoughts, etc. If he rolls the saves in secret and always passes, or mysteriously has low-level mooks well equipped with Mind Blank and such, then you can comment sarcastically on it and hopefully shame him into shaping up.

Sith_Happens
2013-04-08, 10:55 PM
Another time, we capture a guy in a D&D game. He is knocked out and we have the wizard cast detect thoughts on them so they can't save then we start interrogating him. The DM states that we are getting no valuable surface thoughts as we question them. Turns out this guy is a cleric of Vecna and is trained to never have surface thoughts when being question, despite the fact they didn't know detect thoughts was happening.


Detect Thoughts is a crapshoot with these people too, 75% chance the only thing they think about is what they'd like to do to our female players.

That takes a DC 100 bluff check. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/skills.htm#bluff) As corollary, see ironic process theory, a.k.a. "don't think about elephants." (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ironic_process_theory)


It just makes you want to kill everyone and use Speak with Dead on the corpses.

If you don't mind taking 2d6 wisdom damage, Absorb Mind will tell you 25% of everything they knew about anything.

jguy
2013-04-08, 11:03 PM
I will have to mention to the DM the DC 100 bluff check to do that next time, since we knew he didn't save against the spell but was just giving us white noise the whole time.

For the Rping of the interrogation flip-flop thing I should clarify. I agree that there should be some roleplaying when it comes to these kinds of thing. My issue was that in a couple instances, good roleplaying was met with a bad dice roll because of playing a non-skill focused character, and a good dice roll was met with "you need to RP" with the person who isn't so good with RPing. I'm curious if that has come up in other people games at all.

The Random NPC
2013-04-08, 11:19 PM
If you don't mind taking 2d6 wisdom damage, Absorb Mind will tell you 25% of everything they knew about anything.

Mindrape will tell you everything, without the Wis damage, but it's a higher level spell.

Slipperychicken
2013-04-08, 11:20 PM
I will have to mention to the DM the DC 100 bluff check to do that next time, since we knew he didn't save against the spell but was just giving us white noise the whole time.

For the Rping of the interrogation flip-flop thing I should clarify. I agree that there should be some roleplaying when it comes to these kinds of thing. My issue was that in a couple instances, good roleplaying was met with a bad dice roll because of playing a non-skill focused character, and a good dice roll was met with "you need to RP" with the person who isn't so good with RPing. I'm curious if that has come up in other people games at all.

If he disregards rules like the Bluff check, seriously consider leaving. Some GMs are like that (ignore all rules that get in my way, fiat everything. Your rules are as good as my fiat. Screw PCs via fiat always), and they don't change. Not playing is better than playing a bad game.

Otherwise, yes, you do get some GMs who try to pull this kind of nonsense because they're unimaginative and lack the preparation and GMing skills to make this scenario work.

Driderman
2013-04-09, 02:40 AM
Sounds like your GM suffers from "Video Game Syndrome" in which all mooks, henchmen and other assorted staff and bit players will always literally and figuratively fight to the death, because that's usually how it works it video games.

Killer Angel
2013-04-09, 05:01 AM
The problem is never with interrogation, but it's in the way the DM handles it. Leaving aside magical mind-reading or charme, it's basically role-playing and mantaining realistic behaviors for NPCs.

Matticussama
2013-04-09, 05:29 AM
I can see maybe 1 in 50 mooks being so genuinely fanatic that they'd lay down their life rather than give away any information, at least without the DC 50 Diplomacy check required to convert someone from "helpful" to "fanatic." Other than that, it does seem to be the DM being a jerk, not planning ahead, or some combination of the two.

I would suggest taking to the other players in your group first. See if they have a problem with it; chances are at least some of them are just as annoyed with it as you are. If they are, then talk to your DM with the other players. Have a round table discussion on what needs improvement. Try to offer constructive criticism and make sure not to phrase it as a verbal attack; people rarely compromise when forced into a defensive position. Your DM might be willing to simply ignore the criticism of one person, but probably won't ignore the consensus of the whole group.

If your DM does simply ignore the consensus of the group (assuming others are in agreement with you) then it might be time to end that campaign and start a new one, with someone else running it.

jguy
2013-04-09, 11:18 AM
I don't think there is anything malicious behind my DM's intent. I think he honestly is just not prepared for us capturing people since a lot of time we are 'kick the door in' kind of players. I have talked to him about his DM style in that a lot of time he has a set story in mind and he's not the fastest guy on his feet when we do something off the wall. Also, I think any DM would get annoyed if large swaths of plot are revealed early due to cleverness, especially if the campaign hinged around it.

GoddessSune
2013-04-09, 01:18 PM
I have come across a recurring theme when it comes to capturing enemies and interrogating them; the DM never seems to want to give anything up even to the point of ridiculousness. I don't know if this is due to being caught unprepared with what the guy knows, or an unwillingness to reveal plot-sensitive information early on in a game.

Early in the game? Well, the DM is just trying to stop the players from ruining the game. It is far too common. The players grab an NPC in the first couple minutes of the game and demand to know ''how to win and end the game'' in minutes. Of course, most players think it is great to end a game in minutes. Oddly. Though the players never quite think that what will they do after they end a game in minutes.

Though, mostly this is just a DM that does not know how to craft a thick plot. After all, most minions won't know all that much. And a lot of what NPC's might know is wrong or partial or incorrect.

Scow2
2013-04-09, 04:11 PM
Early in the game? Well, the DM is just trying to stop the players from ruining the game. It is far too common. The players grab an NPC in the first couple minutes of the game and demand to know ''how to win and end the game'' in minutes. Of course, most players think it is great to end a game in minutes. Oddly. Though the players never quite think that what will they do after they end a game in minutes.

Though, mostly this is just a DM that does not know how to craft a thick plot. After all, most minions won't know all that much. And a lot of what NPC's might know is wrong or partial or incorrect.I take objection to your first statement. Early in the game, PCs shouldn't be dealing with anyone who knows enough about what's going on any more than to point them in the next direction of the plot. And if a game only has one plotline (much less onethat can be discovered by interrogating the first henchman)... I don't know what to say about it.

Players don't want to "Win the game" in a matter of moments - They want to solve their current quest in the most expedient manner. Once they do that, they move on to the next quest.

awa
2013-04-09, 05:40 PM
see not using the dc 100 bluff thing is not in my opinion a big deal characters being able to that in fiction are not unheard and that dc stupidly high as in higher then walking on water. The reason being its in the epic handbook and epic rules are stupid. Take a look at some other epic skill uses identify a creature by it's tracks dc 60+feat I can identify a couple creatures by there tracks and i am no epic ranger.

now in general i agree i would get annoyed if interrogation never worked even when it logically would but i would not be upset with a logical reason for bypassing an ability for example i could easily buy the cleric of vecna having some kinda anti interrogation training i could not buy every orc, thug ect having it as well.

Jay R
2013-04-09, 06:14 PM
The DM should plan for captures and interrogations, and make use of them.

A competent BBEG makes sure that all his low-level minions know where the MacGuffin is. That's the first step in hiding it somewhere else, and in convincing the PCs to enter the death-trap.

"Sorry, Mario, the princess is in the other tower."

navar100
2013-04-09, 07:04 PM
The DM should plan for captures and interrogations, and make use of them.

A competent BBEG makes sure that all his low-level minions know where the MacGuffin is. That's the first step in hiding it somewhere else, and in convincing the PCs to enter the death-trap.

"Sorry, Mario, the princess is in the other tower."

Do it once, ok.
Do it twice, grr, but ok.
Do it a third time, PCs never take prisoners ever again. Kill them all. Never ask questions. Never investigate.

TuggyNE
2013-04-09, 07:52 PM
Do it once, ok.
Do it twice, grr, but ok.
Do it a third time, PCs never take prisoners ever again. Kill them all. Never ask questions. Never investigate.

Yeah, there's a certain point where, as the DM, following the Evil Overlord List too closely just makes you That Guy whose villains are unbeatable, because they don't make any mistakes.

Exactly where that point is depends heavily on your group's preferences for tough-but-realistic enemies.

Jay R
2013-04-09, 08:50 PM
Yeah, there's a certain point where, as the DM, following the Evil Overlord List too closely just makes you That Guy whose villains are unbeatable, because they don't make any mistakes.

Exactly where that point is depends heavily on your group's preferences for tough-but-realistic enemies.

It also depends on how successful they are, and how fun the game is. The last time I did that, they fell into the trap, earned serious experience points coming up with a very clever way out of the tarp, figured out that minions don't have top-level state secrets, and defeated the BBEG using other methods. Nobody was upset; they all want me to keep DMing.

navar100
2013-04-09, 09:41 PM
It also depends on how successful they are, and how fun the game is. The last time I did that, they fell into the trap, earned serious experience points coming up with a very clever way out of the tarp, figured out that minions don't have top-level state secrets, and defeated the BBEG using other methods. Nobody was upset; they all want me to keep DMing.

Like I said, do it once, ok. Keep doing it ad infinitum, whatever the DM says goes, and when he says enough stupid stuff the players go too.

Jay R
2013-04-10, 09:58 AM
Like I said, do it once, ok. Keep doing it ad infinitum, whatever the DM says goes, and when he says enough stupid stuff the players go too.

Well, yes, of course. This makes it the same as any other DM action. Why bring it up here, if you're not going to bring it up any time anybody offers any advice to a DM?

awa
2013-04-10, 05:51 PM
the evil overlord list kinda bugs me becuase any villain who actually tried to follow all of it would need to have an infinite pile of money to pay for it and or a dm who hand waves all problems for the evil overlord turning him into a villain sue.

I also agree with the sentiment that what is realistic is not always fun.

Kyberwulf
2013-04-10, 05:58 PM
Not really. The Evil Overlord List just tries to install common sense into things. Most of the things on the list assumes that you already have said money. Just not to be stupid about it.

awa
2013-04-10, 08:09 PM
take number 13 lets say you just fought a battle you are going to waste thousands of extra bullets and/or a cremation to make sure every single guy is definitely dead?
number 15 all those custom non digital countdown microwaves are going to be expensive.

27 having redundant every thing is going to be crazy expensive particularly when you are talking about individual components. and that's when it's even able to function all that redundant equipment is going to weigh down and clutter up any device tremendously
30 requires massive man hunts finding every cowardly thief is going to be expensive.

38 also require massive man hunts if you defeat an army you now need to go all over the world to kill off all the relatives of every soldier your army killed

67 treating every camera short as a full scale emergency is a bad idea if you have them often becuase that is incredibly expensive and disruptive to you operation and will breed complacency so when you actually do have an emergency people will think it's another false alarm.
80 means you will be wasting you top troops time with trivial matters on a regular basis. and that's just the first hundred

Jay R
2013-04-10, 09:35 PM
Furthermore, it leaves off some of the cheap but important ones.

"I will not line the walls of my flammable chateau with torches."

"My carpets will be nailed down."

Scow2
2013-04-11, 10:44 AM
67 treating every camera short as a full scale emergency is a bad idea if you have them often becuase that is incredibly expensive and disruptive to you operation and will breed complacency so when you actually do have an emergency people will think it's another false alarm.

If camera shorts happen often, you need a new camera and security system, and better maintenance crew.

awa
2013-04-11, 07:50 PM
perhaps that should be on the evil overlord list instead of the one that say no matter how often it happens treat it as a full emergency.

it's far more practical

TuggyNE
2013-04-11, 08:10 PM
perhaps that should be on the evil overlord list instead of the one that say no matter how often it happens treat it as a full emergency.

it's far more practical

One of them likely leads to the other, but the reverse is not necessarily true. That is, having extremely reliable camera systems is nice, but unless you stress that any failures are likely to be extremely significant, you won't get the desired results.

Whereas, if you start with unreliable systems, and similarly stress just how important any system failures are, you'll probably have to upgrade the systems at some point to minimize cost. But that's just common sense, really. :smallwink:

Still, the list could certainly include both; a bit of redundancy never hurt anyone, and saying almost the same thing twice sometimes helps.

Janus
2013-04-12, 05:43 PM
I imagine an issue with many groups is simply players and DMs alike not knowing anything about actual interrogation.

Granted, magic can make everything different. I once interrogated an Iksar (lizard race from EverQuest) by knocking him out, moving him someplace else, having an enchanter make me look like another Iksar, and then talking to him that way.
...then he started speaking his own language, so I said, "Hey, we need to speak Common now, because... we've been captured by rogue Iksar who... don't understand Common!"

Cue a "....yeah, I'm gonna need you to roll a Bluff check," from the DM. :smallbiggrin:

Averis Vol
2013-04-12, 06:26 PM
Just for my personal entertainment, and to prove that the list is actually a fairly well rounded bit of advice for an evil overlord.


take number 13 lets say you just fought a battle you are going to waste thousands of extra bullets and/or a cremation to make sure every single guy is definitely dead?

If you are an evil overlord, two extra bullets per corpse ain't gonna break the bank. also, knives work just as well.

number 15 all those custom non digital countdown microwaves are going to be expensive.

looking at the blue link on this one, it means devices of warfare, as it is linked to a time bomb most likely with wires.

27 having redundant every thing is going to be crazy expensive particularly when you are talking about individual components. and that's when it's even able to function all that redundant equipment is going to weigh down and clutter up any device tremendously.

It's only one of anything important, not everything. It's common sense to always keep a back up.
30 requires massive man hunts finding every cowardly thief is going to be expensive.

This requires your men carrying guns while off shift and merely shooting any wiley rogues they happen to see.

38 also require massive man hunts if you defeat an army you now need to go all over the world to kill off all the relatives of every soldier your army killed

If the overlord kills everyone himself, I'd just tell the little bastard to come at me; I slaughtered an army alone, that kid doesn't have **** on me. :smallbiggrin:

67 treating every camera short as a full scale emergency is a bad idea if you have them often because that is incredibly expensive and disruptive to you operation and will breed complacency so when you actually do have an emergency people will think it's another false alarm.

Keeps your men on their toes. If they are too lazy to get up and check on a problem, get new employees; these ones obviously don't care enough for your regime.

80 means you will be wasting you top troops time with trivial matters on a regular basis. and that's just the first hundred.

Overpowering a known hero early on is the best way to solve the problem. if you just keep sending on CR mooks at him, the hero levels up to the point where he can take you.

now, I understand your point about this being tedious, but these are things high level wizards do to make sure no one can contend with them; it's forethought and the way you stay in power. If you are an evil overlord paying some people to do stuff isn't gonna be too expensive. After all, if shop owners can hire PC's to track down an heirloom, the king can afford to pay some men to track down a PC.

Grim Portent
2013-04-12, 07:04 PM
Some evil overlords don't even have expenses anyway, slaves don't get paid anything, nor do thralls and who would they pay property tax to?

For an established overlord the only obstacle that equates to expense is manpower. If you have enough guys to take anything you want and guard everything you own at the same time then you don't need to worry about prioritizing equipment unless it requires finite resources.

A modern setting villain has a bigger problem in that regard of course.

As for the OP's issue, in my campaign I went in expecting interrogation to occur from time to time (I wasn't prepared for them trying to negotiate with a wererat though) and just let the people they capture tell them a bit about their link in the chain as it were, often making up the whole thing on the spot.

I suspect your DM just isn't good at improv so he doesn't want to try and stray into territory he hadn't planned on, in which case he needs to consider what each tier of minion in each faction should know and let you learn a secret or two that bounces you to the next step.

Speaking to him about it may work, but it may also make him defensive of his abilities as a DM so it might be wise to drop a few suggestions to the group as a whole to check out sites like this one if they need help with anything. He may take the hint and ask for advice on running games.

Jay R
2013-04-12, 09:20 PM
Interrogating a captured villain for information is equivalent to asking the DM to put in rails. Why wouldn't a DM approve of this?

Malrone
2013-04-12, 09:48 PM
Interrogating a captured villain for information is equivalent to asking the DM to put in rails. Why wouldn't a DM approve of this?

Possibly because he already has a track along the "Scenic Route," and doesn't care to install an express route.

JoshuaZ
2013-04-12, 10:25 PM
Interrogating a captured villain for information is equivalent to asking the DM to put in rails. Why wouldn't a DM approve of this?

Yeah, this is a good point. In at least one occasion I've directed my players in the right direction after they've missed some clues by having them capture a henchperson who knew just a little too much.

scurv
2013-04-13, 11:54 AM
Thinking of this from an OPSEC point of view in regards to information.

Your thugs/grunts are going to know what their job is, Most likely not what its end objective is, But they are going to know the next person up on the food chain(Most likely the one that pays them) and most likely they are going to know some gossip. They are going to know where to take the fruits of their labor and most likely they are going to have the local area street smarts to do their trade. IE knowing what time the cops patrol, who is bought etc.

Very few organisations can have an overlord who is in the shadows. Our culture tends to have McJobs, But even in those you will know who your stores boss is. But their are downsides to being the high cha leader...You need to be seen for that cha to have the best benefit.

A good BBEG knows his low-level grunts are a good source of misinformation, Sun Tzu has quite a bit to say on the topic of dead and expendable spys. So yes said grunts might be doing an assassination or committing a theft, But they can be told that a collector wants the jewel, they don't need to know that it is part of a ritual to raise the undead ferrets. So even if they are captured and talk (a most likely) they will still be serving their side if they spread misinformation that they think is the truth.

Small bits of innocent information add up to make a big picture! It can be hard to DM this level of detail. But if you are in say a port city and you capture an assassin who is plying their trade. His cloths, coin he carries, his weapons, all can tell a tale. So if said assassin has coin from that evil empire from across the sea but his cloths, accent and weapons are all local But he has to many flashy magic items to make sense, You can make a safe guess that maybe there is a connection. The connection may very well be some merchants guild wanting to instigate a war so they can sell arms... But it all goes to painting a picture of what is going on.

As a rule of thumb i keep, Loyalty comes at the price of said person being involved with their organisation. Involvement in an organisation tends to net information about the organisation.
Said information might be things such as
*Buyers
*Suppliers
*organisation goals
*Other people In said organisation
Locations such as safe houses, warehouses, training grounds. Places they protect? Places they guard against?
* Enemy's of organisation. In a world with limited resources Most likely they will compete with someone for something.
*Past missions they have done for said organisation

<edit> But A workaround for not knowing all of this upfront can be telling your players that said person they questioned last week said something about <insert clue you did not think of then here>. Not a perfect solution but it can have some element of fair play to it.

<edit> Slaves need to eat. And self supporting is not the same thing as not having expenses.