A philosophical question.

[Felandria]

If I'm a half elf, but neither of my parents were human, am I still a half elf?

[Chilingsworth]

Sure, if your parents were both half-elves themselves.

[Eslin]

0-24% human = elf
25% human = your choice of elf or half elf
26-74% human = half elf
75% human = your choice of human or half elf
76-100% human = human

If you add enough of a different race (orc, dwarf, gnome) to the mix that no part is more than ten or fifteen percent higher than another, I'd call that mongrelfolk.

Alternately, pick it as <33% human = elf, 33-66% human = half elf, 66%> human = human.

[Felandria]

Well, the half elf description has them as being the result of breeding between an elf and a human.

If the elf bred with a non human humanoid, are they still a half elf?

[Flickerdart]

I think the question is more like - if the non-elf parent is not a human, is the result a half-elf? (ninjaed by OP) To which I believe the answer is that you must have one human parent to produce a half-race creature without a template (such as half-fiend). A mating between, say, an elf and an orc would produce no viable offspring. There may be some specific exceptions, but the PHB half-elf and half-orc are both half-humans.

[erikun]

Well, the half elf description has them as being the result of breeding between an elf and a human.

If the elf bred with a non human humanoid, are they still a half elf?
That... depends. I mean, an elf and a dragon results in a half-dragon elf, not a half-elf of any kind.

Sometimes you get nothing; I don't think an elf and a dwarf (officially) produce any viable offspring. Other pairings that don't have half-humanoid but still produce children might be considered half-elf, just because there isn't a half-anythingelse they could be. It would probably be questionable if an elf and an orc would produce a half-elf, half-orc, or something else entirely.

Note that some games consider humans to be the "mutt" race, so in that case, an elf-dwarf child would just be human.

[Flickerdart]

Note that some games consider humans to be the "mutt" race, so in that case, an elf-dwarf child would just be human.
The mutts of D&D are the Mongrelfolk (Races of Destiny). Humans are more like the Dittos. :smallwink:

[Felandria]

What of giants?

Would an elf and a giant make a half elf or a half giant?

Not to mention tieflings.

[Anderlith]

How about you tell us what races your birth parents are, & then we can tell you want is acceptable to name you?

[Ravens_cry]

They would technically be what is known as a F2 hybrid I believe. And, yes, it counts as a hybrid.

[Quiddle]

There aren't defined rules on genetics so if you really wanted to (and you DM said ok) you could be a half-elf with parents who were both orcs. Backstory is what you make it to be.

Also Mongrelfolk.

[Felandria]

I just find it odd that it's the non elf part that defines a half elf instead of the ELF part, since that's clearly the dominant half of the genes, otherwise they'd be called half-human instead.

[ahenobarbi]

I just find it odd that it's the non elf part that defines a half elf instead of the ELF part, since that's clearly the dominant half of the genes, otherwise they'd be called half-human instead.

It's cultural thing. They are half-elves because they were raised in human society (and elven half is what makes them different from population standard). If creature with the same genes is raised in elven society it's called half-human elf (see description of half-human elves in Dungeon Masters Guide, p. 171).

[Person_Man]

D&D has always had a lot of Hot Skitty-on-Wailord Action (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HotSkittyOnWailordAction). So unless your campaign world specifically bans it, you can probably be half-anything you want.

Though half-elf generally means half-human and half-elf, so if one side of your unholy union is elf and the other is not human, I would say that you should come up with some other name. After all, its your "rare" outsider status that gives you your angst and makes you a "more interesting" character. Though at this point there are so many different half races, I'm surprised they don't have their own dating website.

[Flickerdart]

What of giants?

Would an elf and a giant make a half elf or a half giant?

Neither. Both half-giant and half-elf require a human parent. This mating would not be viable.

[Talderas]

Neither. Both half-giant and half-elf require a human parent. This mating would not be viable.

That doesn't even touch on the possibly a horribly disfigured elf let alone horrible disfigurement of an elf in the case of a successful mating that reaches the birth stage...

[Sgt. Cookie]

I just find it odd that it's the non elf part that defines a half elf instead of the ELF part, since that's clearly the dominant half of the genes, otherwise they'd be called half-human instead.

There is a variant in the DMG, Page 171 "Half-Human Elves", all the good parts of Elf, without any stat adjustments and can qualify for Human prestige classes. (The last one is only speculation, as I do not know of any RAW backing.)

[Bakeru]

Obviously, if your parents are both half elves, you're not a half elf, but in fact a two-quarter elf.

However, since calling them that makes you prone to fireballs thrown by wizards with "Knowledge (mathematics)", no one dares to use that name.

[Talderas]

Obviously, if your parents are both half elves, you're not a half elf, but in fact a two-quarter elf.

However, since calling them that makes you prone to fireballs thrown by wizards with "Knowledge (mathematics)", no one dares to use that name.

Two quarters = 1 half.....

In layman terms, hen the offspring of two half-elves is still a half elf. The offspring of a human and half-elf would be quarter elf.

Genetically, the offspring of two half-elves can be closer to elves than the parents depending on which genes each parent received from their elf parent and which genes they passed on to their offspring.

[yougi]

0-24% human = elf
25% human = your choice of elf or half elf
26-74% human = half elf
75% human = your choice of human or half elf
76-100% human = human

If you add enough of a different race (orc, dwarf, gnome) to the mix that no part is more than ten or fifteen percent higher than another, I'd call that mongrelfolk.

Alternately, pick it as <33% human = elf, 33-66% human = half elf, 66%> human = human.

Interestingly, from the 2nd edition PHB (p.30):
"The relationship between elf, human, and half-elf is as follows: 1) Anyone with both human and elven ancestors is either a human or a half-elf (elves have only elven ancestors). 2) If there are more human ancestors than elven, the person is human; if there is an equal number or more elves, the person is half-elven."

Although, when thinking about it, we (or at least I) rarely think of an offspring with anscestors from 3+ races. If my grandfather is a half-orc, his wife a goblin, my other grandfather an ogre and my grandmother a minotaur, what does that make me?

I've posted that story before on these boards, but I used to play in a game where the DM had this INCREDIBLY (and disturbingly) complete schema of what every interracial mating would result in, with various new races created in there (a la Savage Species, but more complete). The schema included every core humanoid race, most monstrous humanoid and many outsiders. And dragons, of course. Not every combination had a different result (I, for some reason, remember that elf + goblin and drow + halfling had the same result), but there were hundreds of combination, some of them differentiated depending on the gender of the parents (female orc + male ogre gives half-ogre, but female ogre + male orc gives half-orc). The campaign was about a group of villains (never found out who they were) who kidnapped elven maidens so that they could force them to mate with trolls, as the offspring of that mating was an ubersoldier. As you can see, a campaign for the whole family.



Genetically, the offspring of two half-elves can be closer to elves than the parents depending on which genes each parent received from their elf parent and which genes they passed on to their offspring.

True! That's one thing about real genetics that don't make it into D&D genetics. In theory, could lead to two humans, each with an elf ancestor a dozen generations back, having an elven child. It could be worst, as they could also give birth to an Illithid, a true dragon, or a high-level fiend.

This is my next campaign idea.

[Bakeru]

Two quarters = 1 half.....

In layman terms, hen the offspring of two half-elves is still a half elf. The offspring of a human and half-elf would be quarter elf.See? Now you know why wizards with "Knowledge (mathematics)" start throwing fireballs whenever this comes up.

[DrMike105]

I think the mating of two half-elves is a little more complicated. You have two possibilities of gene sets; Elf (E) and Human (H). You get one gene set from each parent. A full Elf would be EE, a full human would be HH. A child from a union of a full elf and a full human would be EH, as one parent can only give an E, and one only an H. Now, two half-elves (both EH) could give either an E or an H to their children. This results in four possibilities: EE, EH, HE, or HH. This means that only two of four possibilities give the combination we know as half-elf. Therefore, a child of two half-elves could be human, elf, or half-elf, as the player desires.

This assumes that elf and human genetics are equally dominant. Some genotypes, like Dragon or Outsider, are clearly dominant, which gives different results when added to the mix.

[Crake]

I think the mating of two half-elves is a little more complicated. You have two possibilities of gene sets; Elf (E) and Human (H). You get one gene set from each parent. A full Elf would be EE, a full human would be HH. A child from a union of a full elf and a full human would be EH, as one parent can only give an E, and one only an H. Now, two half-elves (both EH) could give either an E or an H to their children. This results in four possibilities: EE, EH, HE, or HH. This means that only two of four possibilities give the combination we know as half-elf. Therefore, a child of two half-elves could be human, elf, or half-elf, as the player desires.

This assumes that elf and human genetics are equally dominant. Some genotypes, like Dragon or Outsider, are clearly dominant, which gives different results when added to the mix.

You make alot of silly assumptions based on logic and science. I remember when I used to think the stars above Oerth were very far away suns, like the one that revolves around the planet.

Edit: In other words ****ing magic.

[hewhosaysfish]

Half-elf:
(noun) One half of an elf. Often a result of a whole elf being cut in half esp. with a greataxe wielded by a dwarven or half-orc barbarian. Almost always found in pairs.


It could be worst, as they could also give birth to an Illithid, a true dragon, or a high-level fiend.

This is my next campaign idea.

Isn't this the idea behind Spellscales (from RotD)? A couple who both have draconic ancestry mysteriously produce a odd scaly child with a natural affinity for sorcery.

[Bakeru]

I think the mating of two half-elves is a little more complicated. You have two possibilities of gene sets; Elf (E) and Human (H). You get one gene set from each parent. A full Elf would be EE, a full human would be HH. A child from a union of a full elf and a full human would be EH, as one parent can only give an E, and one only an H. Now, two half-elves (both EH) could give either an E or an H to their children. This results in four possibilities: EE, EH, HE, or HH. This means that only two of four possibilities give the combination we know as half-elf. Therefore, a child of two half-elves could be human, elf, or half-elf, as the player desires.

This assumes that elf and human genetics are equally dominant. Some genotypes, like Dragon or Outsider, are clearly dominant, which gives different results when added to the mix.It also ignores that it's not simply divided in H and E. You don't give either your father's or your mother's genes to your children, it's always a mix of both, and given the number of genes, it's (statistically) an even split: You give roughly half of your fathers and half of your mother's genes to your children.
The variance is negligible. And the chance for two half-elves to sire an elf or human? Even more so. Basically, if we're playing by "realism"-rules, it's one of two choices: The dominant traits win out in the long run/further generations, with less dominant traits becoming more and more rare, or it just mixes and stays mixed at 50%.

So, it's better to do this by the rule of cool, and just let happen whatever suits the plot, even if it's an elf born to humans because their great-grandfather was part elfish.

[DrMike105]

You make a lot of silly assumptions based on logic and science.

Silly assumptions and spurious logic are what make this game great. Also, I would never run a game the way I proposed. My in-world physics/biology/whatever always run off of some variant of "Because God Said So."

Edit: Bakeru's argument also negates what I said. A half-elf parent (EH) would give some E and some H. That being said, I think I want to make this argument with a DM who couldn't spot the flaws, just to make it more complicated. That way I could still play a human in X-Crawl while getting the benefits of belonging to a noble elven house.

[Talderas]

Interestingly, from the 2nd edition PHB (p.30):
"The relationship between elf, human, and half-elf is as follows: 1) Anyone with both human and elven ancestors is either a human or a half-elf (elves have only elven ancestors). 2) If there are more human ancestors than elven, the person is human; if there is an equal number or more elves, the person is half-elven."

You have genetic lineage and you have ancestral lineage. Genetic lineage can create a pure elf (though the odds are very low). Ancestral lineage will never see a pure elf if even one non-elf parent has been introduced. This is exacerbated by the natural haughtiness and egotistic nature of elven society. They follow the ancestral line of thought regarding lineage. Anyone who is even remotely a mutt (think 1/128 parts human and 127/128 parts elf) as an elf.

However, since D&D is a game and games have rules, and D&D has effects based on type, rules are needed to determine the creature type of any mutts.

[Urpriest]

Neither. Both half-giant and half-elf require a human parent. This mating would not be viable.

That's not actually true. Half-Giants don't have human parents, they are exclusively born from Half-Giant parents. A Half-Giant is the result of a complicated breeding program between humans and giants, they aren't directly half-human half-giant the way a half-elf is.

[Flickerdart]

That's not actually true. Half-Giants don't have human parents, they are exclusively born from Half-Giant parents. A Half-Giant is the result of a complicated breeding program between humans and giants, they aren't directly half-human half-giant the way a half-elf is.
Fine, human ancestor.

[hamishspence]

With respect to one kind of half-elf (half-drow) Shining South mentions half-drow characters with only 1/32 drow heritage.

Though it also points out that past this point, characters are not drow-blooded enough to qualify as "Crinti" - the drow-blooded ruling caste of Dambrath.

That might be a good generalization- 1/32 elf is still half-elf, less than that, has the same stats as human.

[kestrel404]

I just find it odd that it's the non elf part that defines a half elf instead of the ELF part, since that's clearly the dominant half of the genes, otherwise they'd be called half-human instead.

I tend to try solutions that are somewhat odd and more than a bit sketchy, and my views on 'lawful' and 'good' do not mesh overly well with those of D&D. I personally considder creating a skeleton (a non-sentient construct made of bones, with no soul attached) whose purposes is to continually dig a deeper well in a town that it constantly in threat of draught to be a Good act, whereas D&D would considder it to be Evil (not even neutral). I have similar issues with the enforcement of laws passed in evil kingdoms, though D&D doesn't generally go into as much detail about what is explicitly Lawful or Chaotic, and the spells with those keywords are usually direct damage/status effect spells.

Actually, if you're willing to allow a Paladin of Freedom - Unearthed Arcana or D20srd.com, basically a Chaotic Good paladin who treats personal freedom the same way a normal paladin treats Honor/the law - I'd much rather be a Paladin of Tishtina Bindar. Possibly masquerading as a Paladin of her Goddess' sister, or not.

[dascarletm]

I personally considder creating a skeleton (a non-sentient construct made of bones, with no soul attached) whose purposes is to continually dig a deeper well in a town that it constantly in threat of draught to be a Good act, whereas D&D would considder it to be Evil (not even neutral).

I think it is more of a "desecration of someones remains issue." Most civilizations in the period would of seen that as irrevocably evil.

[Bakeru]

I think it is more of a "desecration of someones remains issue." Most civilizations in the period would of seen that as irrevocably evil.Someone actually did some nice non-canon analysis of undead and why they're evil, based on the fact that a character whose corpse has been reanimated cannot be brought to life before the corpse is "killed" again. Basically: Since "Raise Dead" doesn't work at all on anyone who was turned into an undead, and even "Resurrection" and "True Resurrection" need the undead to be destroyed before the living being can be brought back... well, basically, you're not just making the corpse move (that would be an animated object), you're actually calling back the soul and trapping it in some kind of hellish half-live of servitude and malice.

'Course, not canon, and I can't find the post/article. I don't even like it all that much, because it gets in the way of cool things like "undeath as full-body organ donation" and "soulless vampire meets its own ghost", but it made sense.

[VeisuItaTyhjyys]

There aren't defined rules on genetics so if you really wanted to (and you DM said ok) you could be a half-elf with parents who were both orcs. Backstory is what you make it to be.

Wait, really? Best sitcom ever.

Also, huh? How did we get on the topic of raising the dead?

[dascarletm]

Wait, really? Best sitcom ever.

Also, huh? How did we get on the topic of raising the dead?

I don't know.... It... just happened?

Back on topic. I have on the fly homebrewed some strange half mixes.

It happens rarely enough for it not to really matter, but I make use of the whole Mule phenomenon so things don't get too out of hand.