God damn protection from X

[D4rtagnan]

Alright I am playing in a bit of a homebrewed 3.5 game. I am playing a thrall herder. I have just returned to the group. Sadly while I was away the the players got an item that had a permitted magic circle on it, placing anyone who comes in contact with the party under a protection from evil spell.

Now that all well and good, but according to the DM that would free my thralls from the metal whammy I have on them. I've tried arguing this there is no getting around it. It the GM call and he being a stubborn mule about it.

We are currently nearing epic levels. I am a psion (level 16) and one of my thralls is an artificer (level 15).

Is there any spells or items that cancel out protection from X. Money and time are not an issue.

[MesiDoomstalker]

Simple. Stand your Thralls away from the item. Magic Circle has a fixed radius, just stay out of it. If they stumble into it, just move the item away and they'll be Re-Thralled.

[D4rtagnan]

Not that simple. The item has a 60ft radius, and the many reason I have the thralls is for role-play. I dont want to have to be contently re-positioning them out of the way.

[Renen]

you are a wizard with psionic PrC?

[ahenobarbi]

There's a spell for that (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/globeOfInvulnerabilityLesser.htm)

[the_david]

Have you tried putting it in a Bag of Holding? That should take care of it, as it can't have effect things on another plane, right? Or you could put it in a Bag of Holding along with a number of sharp objects. That's always a good way to get rid of something. You've gotta love those two words: Lost. Forever.

[ahenobarbi]

Have you tried putting it in a Bag of Holding? That should take care of it, as it can't have effect things on another plane, right? Or you could put it in a Bag of Holding along with a number of sharp objects. That's always a good way to get rid of something. You've gotta love those two words: Lost. Forever.

I think this would annoy party members. And wouldn't solve anything, the item is cheap for their level so they could re-buy it. Furthermore there is no need to. OP's character has Artificer cohort so crafting counter-measure should be trivial, because


There's a spell for that (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/globeOfInvulnerabilityLesser.htm)

[D4rtagnan]

Wow a glob of Invulnerability. That works perfectly.

[Urpriest]

I'm a little confused about you being a Wizard who's also a Thrallherd, but leaving that aside, your ability to control thralls is neither mind-affecting nor a compulsion. Show your DM the class feature involved, it has neither descriptor.

[D4rtagnan]

There's a spell for that (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/globeOfInvulnerabilityLesser.htm)

Thank you ahenobarbi.

[Venger]

I'm a little confused about you being a Wizard who's also a Thrallherd, but leaving that aside, your ability to control thralls is neither mind-affecting nor a compulsion. Show your DM the class feature involved, it has neither descriptor.

oh, that's easy. any character can take thrallherd. you don't even need to be able to manifest any powers at all! a 1 lvl dip gives all the benefits of leadership and more, then you leave and take levels in other things. here's how it works:

step 1) telepathic affinity (mindlink) you manifest mindlink 1/day at 1/2 character lvl. at lvl 10, your ML is 5. dingding! you're now qualified for thrallherd

wizards have knowledge (all) including psionics, and inquisitor has no prereqs, so he could qualify no problem.

but yeah, the actual rules do not in any way support this. thralls are not under any sort of mental control.

[D4rtagnan]

I'm a little confused about you being a Wizard who's also a Thrallherd, but leaving that aside, your ability to control thralls is neither mind-affecting nor a compulsion. Show your DM the class feature involved, it has neither descriptor.

That was me having a brain fart I am a psionic.
As for the thrall and mind effecting...I know. But the gm ruled it so. There is nothing I can do. My hands are tied.

[mregecko]

The Thrallherd ability is even an (Ex) ability, which should tell you it's not a mind-controlling effect. Because it's not magical! If an Antimagic Field doesn't suppress it, a Protection from X effect sure as heck isn't going to.

[Bakeru]

The Thrallherd ability is even an (Ex) ability, which should tell you it's not a mind-controlling effect. Because it's not magical! If an Antimagic Field doesn't suppress it, a Protection from X effect sure as heck isn't going to.Protection from Energy (Fire) is going to protect you against fire, even if an Antimagic Field cannot, like in the case of a bonfire. So, faulty logic.

And while I agree that Protection from [Alignment] shouldn't cancel out Thrallherd, it's still no use arguing with Dartagnan, because Dartagnan agrees, but isn't in a position to make the decision.
Basically, if you want to argue, argue with his DM, in the unlikely case he's going to show up to defend his point.

[Lapak]

That was me having a brain fart I am a psionic.
As for the thrall and mind effecting...I know. But the gm ruled it so. There is nothing I can do. My hands are tied.Yeah, this is your basic problem, and I expect that it's going to run up against any counter-measure proposed. It's not mind-affecting, it's not ongoing, it's not an effect that can be dispelled, so if the GM is ruling that Protection from X 'suppresses' it somehow then whatever you come up with to justify avoiding that is likely to run into equally arbitrary problems.

I'd sit down with him out of character (and not during a session) to explain how you see this as being an unjustified, character-breaking issue for you and see what he proposes as a solution. A rebuild of at least those character levels, since the defining class power is effectively nullified for your character? Overturning the ruling? Something else? But put the ball in the DM's court at this point, anyway.

[Flickerdart]

In what way does protection from evil nullify Thrallherd? Your believers have already come to you. They are not going to suddenly think "hey this guy is a jerk so let's leave" and if they do, they leave the area of effect of the circle and are re-thralled. The ability doesn't allow you to force your believers to do anything, anyway.

[Karnith]

In what way does protection from evil nullify Thrallherd?
Through the almighty power of DM fiat, of course.

D4rtagnan, this is really something that you're going to need to hash out with your DM. If he's going to stop you from using your main ability, you may want to request to be allowed to rebuild your character, or get something to compensate for not getting to use your thrallherd abilities. Because it looks clear to me that even if the rules are on your side (and they are), he will ignore them.

That, or convince the people in your party to throw out the Protection from Evil macguffin item.

[Fouredged Sword]

I would, IC, have your character mention the issue to the other characters. Kinda a "Hey, guys, your item be messing up my thing here. Can you settle for Protection from Evil rather than Circle of Protection?"

In character your party members should realize that they shouldn't do stuff that hurts your character and OOC the players should respect your build.

Then it simply becomes an issue of foes who cast COP, and I think an acorn of far travels will allow your thralls to act as if they are under the tree back in your hometown, IE not in the COP area. Not worth if for the followers, but nice for your thralls.

The fluff is also that your powers call to those already predesposed to follow you (IE alignment and stuff are close), so you could just not treat your followers bad and they shouldn't care if they are not compelled for a while. People have an inertia to their actions and unless given a reason will keep following the life path they are on (ie following you)

[Karoht]

Get rid of the item? That's usually pretty easy to do.

[Flickerdart]

Through the almighty power of DM fiat, of course.
Sure, but what's the actual mechanical effect? Because like I said, even if they try to leave, they instantly lose their immunity.

[Crake]

When you say the players "got" a magic item of a permanent 60ft circle of protection spell, did they make it or did they find it? If they found it, it sounds like your DM put it in there to screw with your class. In either case, I would go with sell it or destroy it. Who cares about protection from evil at your level anyway.

[Karoht]

Planeshift the item to the elemental plane of taffy.
Or one of the evil aligned planes, that could prove funny.

[TuggyNE]

Sure, but what's the actual mechanical effect? Because like I said, even if they try to leave, they instantly lose their immunity.

Probably "they are super-mad at you for enthralling them and instantly attack you. Also, they're now fanatics against you."


What, too cynical a view of the DM?

[Wookie-ranger]

Get rid of the item? That's usually pretty easy to do.

I second that. At that level you do not need this item, regardless of any other enchants.
If it is relevant to your current quest/campaign still toss it. Find some other way to achieve your goal. If there really is none, 1st your DM is railroading your, 2nd your DM is not very creative, 3rd still toss it and find some other quest.
Sounds to be that your DM tries to mess with the fundamental basics of your character design in a way that is not even RAW and simply makes a call that "herp derp your main class feature has become useless because I say so derp derp".
You have all the right in the world to be upset and If he is being such an A** about it that you can be an A** right back and mess up his Railroad plot-line.


In other words: I second the general opinion that your DM is a d**k about it and that Protection from evil does in no way "un-thrall" your minions.
Seriously, you need to have a talk with him.

[Phelix-Mu]

Have your artificer mass-produce slotless items of prot v evil for everyone in the party, their cousins, their friends, and anyone the party meets on the first Monday of every month. Magic circle is nice, but bribe everybody into realizing that functional minions are better than item of build nullification.

If you already craft stuff for everyone, just insist that this item is interfering with the services of the artificer, and the cheap items love is in danger of drying up. I'm sure everyone will see sense in the end.

In short, your angle here is deal with the other players, not with the DM. You have no leverage on the DM, but I'm sure the party regularly benefits from your pc being a functional member of the party.