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onasuma
2013-04-09, 02:03 PM
Hi there people,

Not particularly frequent to this area of the forums, but Im in a wee bit of a bind.

Im joining a 3.5e d&d group later this week thats been going on for a while - all people I know, Ive just been away. Now, they've leveled up, got their gear and whatnot and the DM has decided that I shall not have comperable resources. In fact, hes stuck me 7 levels behind the bulk of the party at level 10 with wealth appropriet for level 10.

Now, that is fine, its his campaign he can do what he likes. However, far be it from me to give him an easy time of it, rolling another straight barbarian or what not, no I need to show some form of defiance.

I therefore come to you, dear internet friends, to ask how do I manage to compete on similar footing to pretty standard level 15-17 characters with such a limit on what I have avaliable. Id love some ideas, if not builds, to work with - havent been told any books are banned or anything.

Cheers in advance!

Karnith
2013-04-09, 02:05 PM
Do you know what the composition and/or general optimization-level of the party you're going to be joining is?

ArcturusV
2013-04-09, 02:07 PM
Well, probably the simple solution would be to make a 10th level Druid. Wealth? You care not for wealth. Just shift into forms which give you the effects you need. Items for flight? Bah, I'mma Dire Eagle! That sort of thing. Druids also have, even at 10th level, magic that can just wreck the day of entire encounters unless the DM builds countermeasures specifically against you (Which he might, but basically at that point he's telling the rest of the party that you, even 7 levels shy, are the most dangerous man in the room). You'll want to look at the various "Terrain" books for some kinda recockulous Druid Spells/powers. Frostburn, Stormwrack, Sandstorm, etc.

onasuma
2013-04-09, 02:08 PM
Fair question. The three big guns, all level 17 are as follows:

Wild Shape Druid with something of a Bear fetish. Technically a healer, but spends all his slots on summon bears and wildshape buffs

Dread Necromancer who sure does love making weirdly shaped skeletons. Had a bunch of the feats that put templates on undead.

Kobold Sorceror with all the gimmicks that come from kobolds being dragon blood. Seems mostly there for the use of breath weapons.

Urpriest
2013-04-09, 02:15 PM
On the one hand, this really feels like a sign of a deeper problem...it sounds like the DM is either out to get you, or doesn't understand just how much of a difference seven levels makes. Either way, you're in for a rough time even if you manage to cross this particular hurdle.

What are the other players playing? You might be able to get away with only using mild optimization if they're particularly unoptimized, otherwise pretty much the only way to contribute will be high cheese.

Edit: Ah, these guys are somewhat optimized. Hmm, you're in a bit of a bind, then. How cheesy are you/your DM willing to get?

Karnith
2013-04-09, 02:20 PM
Well, it seems like you could build a buffing/battlefield-control focused wizard and contribute to the party in some respect, depending on what the rest of the party does.

But you should be aware that, by being seven full levels behind the rest of your party, you're going to be an actual glass cannon (minus the "cannon" part, absent significant optimization and/or cheese). Any effect that has a chance at hitting your allies is almost guaranteed to get you if you aren't immune (which items can help with, check here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187851) for that). You're also going to have to deal with a laughably small amount of HP compared to the rest of your party, and most enemies will be easily able to save against your spells because you'll be so far behind the rest of your party. It's very important to determine whether or not your DM understands this, because if he doesn't it is extremely likely that you will die quickly.

onasuma
2013-04-09, 02:20 PM
He is, very clearly, out to get me. This is precisely why I will have no hard feelings playing overpowered characters in his campaign with horrendus power plays if I can sort one out in 10 levels.

As far as I know, more or less anything goes. No books have been banned (apart from BoEF which someone happens to own around that table).

Divide by Zero
2013-04-09, 02:25 PM
If you're certain that the DM is, in fact, out to get you, then why are you even playing this game? It's a recipe for disaster and it can only hurt your friendships with the other players.

Callin
2013-04-09, 02:26 PM
Had this happen to me and a friend in an epic game.. they were ECL 21+ we were lvl 16... So we made a psion and wiz combo and using a WOTC approved trick we became ECL 40+ in less than 1 game.

Using a Fusion Djorje and Clone Scrolls we would summon HIGH POWERED mobs and then Merge. Cut off a piece of the merged body and cast clone. Grow clone in a fast time demiplane, die, and soul goes into the Fusion Clone. Rinse and Repeat till satisfied.

edit- Be the Psion and Merge with a Wiz, do that first that way you dont have to keep paying for the Wiz.

Karnith
2013-04-09, 02:28 PM
He is, very clearly, out to get me. This is precisely why I will have no hard feelings wrecking his campaign with horrendus power plays if I can sort one out in 10 levels.
This isn't going to be helpful for your build, but if that's what the game is going to be like then I would recommend not playing. No D&D is better than bad D&D, in my experience.

I mean, there are a lot of things that you could contribute in a party like that, especially if you're willing to use cheese (you're level 10, so Arcane Thesis/metamgic reducers, Lesser Planar Binding, circle magic exploits and the like are all on the table), but if the DM wants you to die then you're going to die. And even if he played completely fair, you would still be so far behind the rest of the party (absent significant cheese) that you will almost certainly die.

Big Fau
2013-04-09, 02:39 PM
Firstly, your DM is a jackass. No one should start off 7 levels behind the party, especially when the party is this optimized.


Second, you could go Druid 5/Planar Shepherd 5, devoted to the Far Realms (or any plane with an unusual Time trait). Then you just RP yourself as Dio Brando until you hit level 17 yourself.

Crake
2013-04-09, 02:41 PM
If you want to break a game, you don't make overpowered characters, you make silly/rediculous characters. Make a bard with a one-man-band and never stop playing music. Pick one of the characters and have your character worship him (preferably one who makes bad decisions) and make sure you always support his bad calls until the other players agree. Then just stand back in combat, singing and dancing, make sure to roleplay every little nuance of your character. Who needs combat prowess to have fun?

Edit: Spend all of your WBL to get a continuous item of resilient sphere and stick yourself in there for protection during combat. You can still be heard, so your bardic music should still work (since it doesn't need line of effect, just to be heard) and get a ring of sustenance. That way if you end up getting stuck, you can sit in that ball of force until someone can come save you. Extra credit if you can manage to get a telekinetic sphere instead.

dascarletm
2013-04-09, 02:47 PM
OR, you could play the roll of the weak member of the party. It takes a certain kind of person to pull it off, but if you go in knowing it can be fun. Every great story has one, Krilin or actually Yamcha (spellcheck?) from DBZ, Samwell Tarly from A Game of Thrones, Merry or Pippin from LoTR, etc. Just make up for what you lack in power with back-story, and just plain coolness.

I would...

level 10 expert
Iajiatsu Focus + UMD
you don't do much, but you use the two to create some crazy combo. (Playgrounders help me in this feat.) I'm thinking Greater Mighty Wallop and....

Spot + Listen + Search
You are the Radar. None escape your sight.

Handle Animal
Train ALL THE ANIMALS! You have a small army of giant eagles, hippogrifs, griffons, and badgers, honey.

Use all these things hardly ever, besides that just shoot mediocre spells/ use stuff to just stay alive. Then pull out the combo and be competent only when the story is at the most tense. Milking the drama for all it is worth.

Congratz you are now officially the best (coolest:smallcool:) character in the party.

laeZ1
2013-04-09, 02:50 PM
A few builds to sample:
Diplomancer?
Vow of Peace/Vow of nonviolence bard?
Vow of poverty monk?
Leadership spec'd dragonfire inspiration bard?
Rakshasa N'zatherune, and "forget" about all those outsider HD (an experienced player did this to me my first time DMing. Not cool.)?
Awakened chipmonkmonk?

I'm not as skilled as the rest of the playgrounders in the art of optimization, but I'm pretty sure these builds can do helpful things at level 10.

Alright, that last one was just for laughs.
Edit: The post above me reminded me of a TO build, where stacking handle animal allowed you to have very powerful pets long before you had the strength to take them on in combat. It also might be fun to tame and train your Druid friend's pets to like you better.

Daftendirekt
2013-04-09, 02:53 PM
With the three people already in the group being that optimized, my suggestion is to go Tier 0:

Spell-to-Power Erudite.



http://drupal.org/files/x-all-the-things-template.png
Have ALL THE MAGIC!

Callin
2013-04-09, 02:57 PM
He could go Elven Generalist Domain Wiz and do Early Entry + Bloodline Abuse and be on Par as everyone else.

But Daft probably has the best idea. Just wreck it. Matter of Fact combine the Erudite with my earlier suggestion and just bend the DM over and not use lube.

onasuma
2013-04-09, 03:14 PM
Looks like I shall be playing an Erudite then. As soon as I read up on what Erudites are...

Tvtyrant
2013-04-09, 03:16 PM
There was a WBL build called The Cube which used the Stronghold Builder books. Basically it made a flying room, and then layered it with walls of hardened obdurium, force and prismatic walls. Auto-resetting spell traps on the outside let it attack enemies, or simply ramming them with its prismatic walls.


The Cube? That was me.


Prismatic Wall
Wall of Force
Magically Hardened Obdurium
Lead
Dirt
Me


It can move. As it still a build in progress, I will say little, other than the bare-bones version is available at level 9 and effectively free at level 12ish (AFB).

The current build is immune to almost any targeted spell (even without the walls), and any non-targeted spell near it is eaten by it. It is also much more expensive, although still within a level 13 budget, for ToS (the arena that it was created for) The biggest weakness, MDJ, has been defeated.

No, I will not tell how.

Amusing anecdote time! I originally made it because I was asked to make a build for the arena, but I didn't want something all complicated and junk. So I just decided to ignore class, race and skills, and only one feat was taken. Everything else was chosen by dice. It eventually was changed to commoner, just to say I won with a commoner. Signmaker is the only competitor to (sort-of) defeat it in the ToS, mainly because she just ran away until I died of old age (we ruled it a tie). I am now immune to that. Also, I have not faced PhoenixRiver's Fluffy build, the other Tier 0.5 (by the ToS tier system).

EDIT: I forgot! Doc Roc also helped me with many things, one of those being immunity to MDJ. Also, one-way LoE/LoS.

EDIT2: Most efficient way to kill things is simply ramming them with Prismatic Walls. As the SBG has nothing to say about what DC the Wall is, I always assumed minimum. Side note, the SBG is a really poorly edited book. Making a tornado is cheaper than making a windstorm. Actually, assuming my memory is correct, you cannot make a windstorm, as the item to do that says tornado instead.

In essence, make a cottage sized stronghold with the flying and burrowing power, and then attach permanence walls of Force and Prisms to the outside.

Callin
2013-04-09, 03:16 PM
BEHOLD (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20060406b)


blah blah blah 10 chars

dascarletm
2013-04-09, 03:26 PM
From what it sounds like to me, the DM isn't trying to punish you. I mean since you said they are all your friends, you should A: Go with something along the lines of my previous post and not try and ruin their game that your friends are probably enjoying, or B: ask the DM if he has something planned.

If it was me I would probably be bringing you in to show how far they have all progressed since you left, and setting up one or two mixed fights where all players can be included. I would then catch you up after. That may be his plan. Just leveling you up all the way there almost cheapens the experience sometimes. This may be his way of catching you up quickly and he might go easy on you.

I see two possibilities:

1. He is being a jerk and wants to "punish" you by making your character weak and feel bad about it.

2. Catching you up in a neat way, and just having a mixed party for a little. He may even have special stuff planned for you that will work better with the mixed party.

So, if you A: just play normal, or B: ruin the game with gimmicks you either are matching what he does, 1-B or 2-A. Or you are not matching 1-A, 2-B

Here is the possibilities in what can happen:
1-A You are punished and have a normal character. The DM looks like a jerk, and you are the victim. The other players will be on your side, and either everything will work out or you will just have to leave. You however are not burning any bridges, and my play with them again.

1-B You match his passive aggressiveness and the game is either broken or not. You will probably leave on bad terms over your "pissing match" with the DM. (the DM always wins these by the way).

2-A Everything works out and everyone is happy

2-B You ruin the game when the DM was trying to do something cool. Now you are the jerk because you over-reacted for not getting to start the same level. I would think you were being childish. The players and the DM may not want to play with you again. Bridges thoroughly burnt.

Really if you just try to play normal it works out better.
Being passive-aggressive and trying to break the game is really just childish and I think you should be above that behavior.

Of course this is just my 2cents and I could be totally wrong.

onasuma
2013-04-09, 03:29 PM
Knowing the guy, being levels behind is just how he does things. The fact I am 7 levels behind seems spiteful, especially given before its been at most 3. I do not intend to "ruin the game". I do intend to play a painfully strong character in spite of his tedious bull.

laeZ1
2013-04-09, 03:29 PM
monk 2, cleric (of trickery) 3, assassin 3, mystic theurge 2.

Tremble at your own (?)power!

Dairuga
2013-04-09, 03:30 PM
Well, in my experiences, the DM sometimes does this, not to be an ass, but to create fairness. That is, fairness for the -other- players. Some might see it as favouritism, others might see it as rightful playing (They spent all the months gaming, leveling up, and spending time on the game, wheras you were away), but in all honesty; it is a jerkass move.

And given the fact that -you- say the DM is explicitly out to get you, is only making it appear more so, as you would know more of that than anyone else on the playground. Still, while you might wish to show up, break the campaign in half somehow, and then walk away proud, because the DM got his commuppance, nine times out of ten, it won't happen. Either the DM will ban the choices you make, simply because he is out to get you, or when you try to pull a ridiculous stunt; he will simply say "No, it didn't happen", and handwave you away. Of course, he -would- be admitting to you managing something as crazy as that at level -ten-, wheras others with full access to level 8 spells and level 9 spells have not, which is a bit of an awesome notion in itself.

But now, as have already been stated, one of the most "Cheesy" things you -can- do at this point in time, which is extremely powerful, but refrains from -breaking- the campaign if you do not wish to, is to go Druid 5 / planar sheperd 5, and align yourself with Quor Dal, the dream realm (or Dal Quor?). This will simply let you do a lot of stuff at once, which grants you a lot of power, without actually creating mass destruction and tearing cities apart from their foundations. It also lets you pretend you are The Flash, if you want, and just run around at ten times speed.

Due to the listed time trait, time passes at a rate of 1 to 10 there, which means that ten turns pass for every one turn that passes outside the bubble. So once you can pop up your bubble of planar energy, you can sit back, and decimate any one encounter per day by going, well, gatling-anything. Throw out ten spells before your turn shifts over to the enemy, or ready actions to get away in case enemies do hairy things.

As long as you stay alive, you will get EXP. And at this point in the game, with ECL 17 encounters and higher, you will be getting EXP -fast-. Ridiculously fast.

It is never fun to be that far behind, but from the DM's perspective, perhaps he is just wanting to ensure none of the other players feel cheated out of the time they spent in the game? Have you actually asked him about why you have to start at level 10, and then proceed to ask the other party members what -they- think, and perhaps all ffour of you could have a talk with the DM? Diplomancy is the best skill underneath Bluff, after all.

EDIT: Damn, this thread moved fast. From when I started writing this, to when I finished, it seems Erudite had already been chosen. Pardon that.

onasuma
2013-04-09, 03:32 PM
I really do feel the need to stress I am not out to break the campaign world. Im looking for something that goes "I would be stupidly hard if this was a level 10 campaign, but given everyone else is level 17, im totally usable"

A_S
2013-04-09, 03:33 PM
I think there's an option 3, which is that they're all friends who enjoy the adversarial model of DMing, and the DM is trying to "mess with" (rather than "punish") the OP. Not saying this is necessarily the case, and if not, dascarletm is right on the money...but it is possible to be in competition with your DM without burning bridges and ruining games/friendships.

Urpriest
2013-04-09, 03:33 PM
Erudite is ok, but level 10 is still a handicap.

I'd advise doing a Diplomancer. The nice thing about Diplomancers is that Diplomacy DCs don't scale, so as long as you manage to always be able to communicate with your enemies and always have a standard action to do so, your level is irrelevant.

Some basic elements:
Diplomacy as a standard action via a one-level dip in Binder for Naberius.
Some means of getting Celerity and being immune to being flat-footed so that you always go first.
Enough boosts to the skill to get enemies from Hostile to Helpful. Fanatic is a bonus.

dascarletm
2013-04-09, 03:34 PM
Knowing the guy, being levels behind is just how he does things. The fact I am 7 levels behind seems spiteful, especially given before its been at most 3. I do not intend to "ruin the game". I do intend to play a painfully strong character in spite of his tedious bull.

Make sure it is also something you (and other members) will enjoy playing later on once you do catch up.

Fyermind
2013-04-09, 03:35 PM
I'd go incantrix. Even if your own spells aren't very effective, you can add metamagic to your allies spells for free which is pretty effective given how much stronger their magic is. For your own magic, I'd suggest buffs and battlefield control as much as possible. The suggestion of being a bard and hiding in a sphere actually looks really good too.

Karnith
2013-04-09, 03:40 PM
If you are determined to play in the game, and are desperate to contribute in a 17th-level game, you could go Specialist Wizard 5/Red Wizard 5, which gets you access to 10th-level wizard casting and Circle Magic, which is stupidly broken. This particular method relies on a number of pieces of cheese to function, and I would never normally recommend using it, but it will help overcome the seven-level gap between you and your party-mates.
The first trick requires Lesser Planar Binding and a Magic Circle spell (so don't ban Conjuration or Abjuration). Planar Bind a Mirror Mephit (Expedtion to the Demonweb Pits), and convince it to make a simulacrum of itself. Order the mephit to order the simulacrum to obey your orders, then kill it (or dispose of it in some way). The next step is to order the mephit simulacrum to create simulacra of you (and order it to order the new simulacra to obey you). This will take a few days, but you'll want at least 5 to get good circle magic results.

(If you don't/can't do the above, buy a scroll of simulacrum and make a simulacrum of the mirror mephit with that, which costs money but is safer. Or, if mirror mephits are out, you could buy a bunch of scrolls, though it would be painful)

Once you've got your simulacra, it's time for stupid circle magic shenanigans. Your simulacra will be fifth-level specialist wizards with tattoo focus, making them eligible for participation in circle magic. They will each have spells per day equal to 5/4/3/2 plus bonus spells per day from having a high Intelligence score. Each one will, therefore, contribute a minimum of (4*1)+(3*2)+(2*3) spell levels, or 16 spell levels, plus whatever they get for bonus spells. With 5 of them expending 3rd-level spells, you get (3*5)=15 spell levels to use for your circle magic. You can spend these spell levels to boost your CL to 25 (28 for spells of your specialist school), which will put you far ahead of your party-mates. You can then initiate another round of circle magic to get 15 more spell levels with which to apply Maximize, Empower, or Heighten to your spells (to a max of 20th-level spells, and you don't need the feats to get the benefit), and repeat until you run out of stupid things to do with circle magic. Be aware that each round of circle magic takes an hour, so be sure to plan accordingly.
If you do that, congrats. You're a 10th-level character with a CL of 25 who gets free metamagic every day and can cast spells with DCs of 30 + Int modifier, which is about on part with what 17th-level characters should be doing. With arcane thesis and the usual feats in the build somewhere, you can blast like a mailman, or you can spam SoDs all over the place, or you can just cast a bunch of all-day buffs or something (also, you've got a simulacrum factory, so you can start wish loops whenever you want). Just make sure to take care of your simulacra.

onasuma
2013-04-09, 03:40 PM
I think there's an option 3, which is that they're all friends who enjoy the adversarial model of DMing, and the DM is trying to "mess with" (rather than "punish") the OP. Not saying this is necessarily the case, and if not, dascarletm is right on the money...but it is possible to be in competition with your DM without burning bridges and ruining games/friendships.

This seems more or less the situation as I see it.

Friv
2013-04-09, 03:40 PM
He is, very clearly, out to get me. This is precisely why I will have no hard feelings wrecking his campaign with horrendus power plays if I can sort one out in 10 levels.

No, nonononono.

There is no situation in which "showing defiance" is a functional way to play a game. There is definitely no situation in which wrecking a campaign is a good idea.

But what if, I hear you starting to ask. No. There is no what if. Down that pathway lies madness, and no one is going to have fun. You will not have fun. Your friends will not have fun. Your DM will not have fun.

Do not play the game to destroy fun.

Take the high ground. Do not descend to adversarial situations, because it will end with you out several friends. You are entering a game that they are all enjoying (I assume that your friends haven't asked you to come in and wreck their game, anyway) and if you destroy that game every one of them is going to be rightfully pissed the hell off.

There are three mature ways that you can handle this:

1) Build a character who primarily stays out of the line of fire and provides direct buffs to the party (find out what buffs the party already has, mind you). One of the lovely things about force multipliers is that they remain force multipliers for stronger allies. Take advantage of that plus your crazy-high XP gain rates to catch up with everyone else.

2) Build a character who is deliberately acting as an apprentice or otherwise starry-eyed follower of one of the other players. Play it up; be the guy who should be awesome, but he's hanging around with people who are past awesome and loving every minute of it.

3) Explain to the DM that you don't think that you will be able to contribute effectively or have fun as a Level 10 character in a Level 17 game, and you would rather wait for this campaign to end and a new one to begin and join in then.

Dairuga
2013-04-09, 03:48 PM
Sorry for posting again in such a short while, but here is another build you might potentially want to go.

Another optional build to go, that has not been mentioned yet, would be Wizard 9, Initate of the Sevenfold veil 1. Of course, you are not going to be -that- impressive -yet-, but if you do manage to hang on and survive enough to get a few more levels (Which, at ECL 17 should be only a few battles), you can take more levels in the Sevenfold Veil. The Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil is considered one of the most powerful prestige classes for wizards, right up next to Incantantrix or Dweomerkeeper, sheerly because of its -immense-, impenetratable -defenses-. It does not make you able to kill everything, but it severely punishes everything that tries to hit -you-, often making them unable, or unwanting to even try.

Firstly, at level 4 of Initiate, it lets you throw up these barriers as -immediate- actions. Something decides to charge you? Throw up a barrier. Someone targets you with a spell? Barrier. Someone hurls arrows or spears at you? barrier. Someone ambushes your party, and three people go for you? Barrier. (Of course, this needs you to get a way to act in the surprise round, but really; given that people only get a single action (either move, -or- standard action), they are not going to do much in the surprise round itself, so that is usually not too much of a worry).

They can put up barriers as Personal wards (Only affects you, for 1 -minute-, 10 whole rounds, per Initiate level), A ring centered around you (Also protecting anything adjacent to you), or a -wall-.

Thse Barriers can do everything from Blocking mundane projectiles, to magical projectiles, to Gases and Breath attacks, to blocking every mind-affecting effect, to downright blocking -every- possible effect, magical or otherwise, at level 7. Plus, if anything tries to hit you -trough- a veil (The barriers, called Veils, also grants a +4 Cover bonus to AC, which some people miss. Not all that much, but still handy). they take 20 Fire damage, 40 ACid damage, 80 Electricity damage, get petrified, Insanity-ed, or downright banished to another plane. And this kicks in -every- time they -try- to attack, even if they miss. Imagine someone hitting you 4 times, and taking 80 electricity damage each time. They are not going to survive long if they do that, even at level 17.

The good thing about the veils, is that -all- the veils have a save DC of 18 + casting stat. That means, despite the spell level of each individual veil, they are all having the DC of 8th level spells. This basically gives you a pseudo-level 8 spell at level 10, and more as you level up. Since the save DC is so high, even things at level 17 can have problems overcoming it. Get yourself an INT-boosting item, and with 2 level up points, you can have up around 26 intelligence, meaning a save DC of 26. This is in addition to all your spells, which also can be of Utility or defensive measures ( Greater mirror image is absolutely -splendid- to have, for that extra punishment when they try to hit you).

This, while not making you able to hit the hardest (But hey, you are 7 levels behind, -no one- is expecting you to be able to do much in combat. If they do, they are all *******s and fail at the game forever, if they have the slightest clue about BAB scaling, monster AC and general difficulty curve. This way, you can almost make sure you become an invincible fortress that can handle near-anything your DM throws at you.

Sgt. Cookie
2013-04-09, 03:54 PM
*Strokes Beard* It sounds like you need a generous helping of nigh invulnerability. It costs a Class Level, 1 LA and three feats and a willingness to ignore any class that requires Mental Stats.

Oh, I forgot to mention. The three feats are free.

First off, you need to familiarise yourself with the Symbiote Template from Savage Species, we are going to combine it with a Dread Blossom Swarm MMIII. The important part is Regeneration 5/Fire or Cold

A Dread Blossom Swarm Symbiote can take class levels, so, we are going to need to take Barbarian as our level 1 class. Then, because the DBS technicaly now possesses a character class, it can pick up Blazing Beserker, Frozen Beserker and Extra Rage. Also, grab Extra Rage as your 1st level feat too.

There is also a feat, somewhere, that let's you Rage as a free or immediate action. Sudden Rage or Swift Rage or something along those lines.

Blazing/Frozen Beserker grant the Barbarian the Fire/Cold subtypes while raging, making you immune to Fire and Cold while raging. This means that you are vulnerable to literally two things while in combat: Searing spell and Trollbane.

You are also immune, due to the fact you get Swarm Traits, to all single target spells, so a Dragon Shaman dip for Healing Aura wouldn't be a bad idea.

There are some other things that this gives you, you can read up on this monstrosity here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=259833).

olentu
2013-04-09, 03:57 PM
So how much power are we talking about here. A nice trick, ultimate power, or something in between.

GoodbyeSoberDay
2013-04-09, 07:40 PM
I second the Incantatrix idea, with a focus on persisting everyone else's buffs. Basically, you're contributing by making everyone else's awesome casting even more awesome. It definitely rings a defiant tone: "If you screw me over, your group becomes more powerful than you could possibly imagine." Just make sure someone has dispelling covered.

Another idea: Rogue 1/Sorcerer X/Spellwarp Sniper 4/Unseen Seer X
Human is probably the easiest way to do this due to Able Learner, but Dragonwrought Kobold with +2 sorcerer level thingy could be too tasty to ignore. Optimize the crap out of your hide and move silently (Darkstalker, etc). Then use spellwarped frost breath or spellwarped Wings of Flurry to damage and daze your opponents, no save. Split Ray/Ocular Spell/Twin Spell are optional, and hilarious. Also get Assay Spell Resistance. Your damage probably isn't top shelf, but it's decent, and you're denying all the enemies their actions while your allies stomp them into the ground.

If you can fit a Mindbender dip for Mindsight, you're a decent scout even in a game where your allies are much higher level. The problem is that hide/ms, since a lot of things (dragons especially) have really high spot/listen at higher levels.

Juntao112
2013-04-10, 01:30 AM
He is, very clearly, out to get me. This is precisely why I will have no hard feelings playing overpowered characters in his campaign with horrendus power plays if I can sort one out in 10 levels.

As far as I know, more or less anything goes. No books have been banned (apart from BoEF which someone happens to own around that table).

Sorcerer with Wings of Cover and Ruin Delver's Fortune for survivability, Wings of Flurry for blasting... (http://www.thetangledweb.net/forums/profiler/view_char.php?cid=40838)

Rubik
2013-04-10, 01:45 AM
I'm a bit late to the party, but you might consider the ghost savage progression presented here. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040117a) Note that, since it's a class progression, you can use legacy champion (in Weapons of Legacy) or uncanny trickster (in Complete Scoundrel) to progress it without losing levels or hit dice, so you'll be, at most, one level behind everyone else (which should be bought off as LA). Make sure you gain the malevolence ability, so you can possess other creatures, and telekinesis (because it's insanely powerful). Then start getting monstrous bodies any way you can, with special abilities that can keep you on par with the group.

After that, start going for ToB classes, so you can use maneuvers along with frighteningly powerful monsters to stack them on.

And if your bodies die, you can simply possess something better after. Gain as much XP as you can so you level up PDQ.