How does prestige bard/paliden work with spontaneous casters?

[CyberThread]

How does the prestige bard/paliden work if you are doing things like duskblade, war mage, or even Sorcerer.


Do you auto add every single bard/paliden spell to them instantly?

[Flickerdart]

It depends.

The Warmage (and Beguiler and Dread Necromancer) can cast any spell on their list spontaneously. Taking a level in one of the prestigious classes immediately allows them to cast those spells spontaneously (if they can cast high enough level spells).

However, the Sorcerer and Duskblade have spells known that are distinct from their spell lists. When these characters take levels in a prestigious class, they gain the opportunity to add those unique spells to their spells known whenever they would learn new spells, but do not automatically learn them all.

[CyberThread]

Would you as a DM allow a warmage /dread necro to count bard spells on it's list instantly or force them to hand pick a few?

[Pickford]

It depends.

The Warmage (and Beguiler and Dread Necromancer) can cast any spell on their list spontaneously. Taking a level in one of the prestigious classes immediately allows them to cast those spells spontaneously (if they can cast high enough level spells).

However, the Sorcerer and Duskblade have spells known that are distinct from their spell lists. When these characters take levels in a prestigious class, they gain the opportunity to add those unique spells to their spells known whenever they would learn new spells, but do not automatically learn them all.

Not exactly.

Here is what the Prestige Bard grants:


Spellcasting: When a new prestige bard level is gained (except at 1st, 3rd, 7th, and 13th level), the character gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if she had also gained a level in whatever arcane spellcasting class she belonged to before she added the prestige class.
A prestige bard casts arcane spells from the schools of divination, enchantment, and illusion at +2 caster level. She casts arcane spells from the schools of evocation and necromancy at -2 caster level.

Nothing in there about gaining bard spells.

What about the Prestige Paladin?

Same deal:
the prestige paladin gains new spells per day as if he had gained a level in whatever divine spellcasting class he belonged to before he added the prestige class.

And the Prestige Ranger? Hilariously, they forgot to include the spells class feature. It's in the table, but not the text. :smallamused:

Sadly there appears to be no errata to append the book, however I think it is safe to assume it's intended, even if it was never printed.

The table for the ranger indicates +1 of existing divine class, the same as the paladin, so it's safe to say no access to ranger spells.

[Coidzor]

Not exactly.

It seems to be in a foreword to the classes. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/prestigiousCharacterClasses.htm) And is rather open to DM interpretation.


Unique Spells

The bard, paladin, and ranger spell lists contain a number of spells that don't appear on other classes' spell lists. In general, any character who enters one of these prestige classes should gain access to spells unique to that class's spell list, at the same levels indicated for the standard class. At the game master's discretion, spells unique to that class's spell list found in other books may also be available, but on a case by case basis. The game master may require such spells to be researched or learned specifically by the character, rather than simply making them freely available.

[HunterOfJello]

It's all defined in the sidebar.

Flickerdart is correct. Warmage and those that have "class spell list = spells known list" would gain all the spells immediately onto their spells known. They would, however be limited to only those spells that appear in the PHB. Spells from other books are defined as being under DM discretion.

Sorcerer and Duskblade would gain the opportunity to choose the spells as one of their limited spells known, but would not gain instant access to all of those spells onto their spells known list like the Warmage and Beguiler would. They would gain the ability to use wands and staves with those spells on them though, which could be very handy. One of the most broken wands I've ever heard of is the Eternal Wand of Glibness. (Though my favorite was always Wand of Swift Invisibility.)

[Pickford]

It seems to be in a foreword to the classes. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/prestigiousCharacterClasses.htm) And is rather open to DM interpretation.

Ah, missed the sidebar (not in the foreward in the book, that was a bit of a red herring)

[Ashtagon]

How does the prestige bard/paliden work if you are doing things like duskblade, war mage, or even Sorcerer.

Do you auto add every single bard/paliden spell to them instantly?

Prestige bard doesn't actually add any new spells to your spell list at all; it adds to your effective caster level and to your effective level with your base class for purposes of spells known and spells per day (and gives an additional caster level bonus on certain schools). But it makes no mention of any "bard spell list".

Prestige paladin (and prestige ranger) doesn't work with those classes you mentioned at all, as they require a base class with divine casting. But prestige paladin also does not mention a "paladin spell list".

The exception (as noted in the sidebar) on is those spells that exist on the bard/paladin/ranger spell list only. So a prestige paladin could gain access to heal mount, and a prestige bard could gain summon instrument. But neither would gain cure light wounds, since that spell is not unique to bards or paladins.