What's the best way to combine rolling stats and point buy?

[killem2]

The Crunch:

Gestalt Characters
5 players total
Restricted Magic Classes (http://http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=279453)
Guns allowed, (nothing past early firearms in PF, and dragon 321)
No Prestige Classes allowed
No Multiclassing Allowed
Starting ECL IS 3



Now, I was tossing around the idea of 3d6, reroll 1's, take the total, and try a standard point buy.

I'm not quite clear on how we do point buy though with 3.5. Is it like the video games where if you go up to 18 on a stat you end up spending 3 points or something for it?

I want decent enough stats so M.A.D classes could thrive.

[dascarletm]

Point buy for 3.5 has a table in the DMG... forget the page. It works like this

Increasing from:
8-14 = 1-1 point to ability score
14-16 = 2-1 point to ability score
17-18 = 3-1 point to ability score

so buying an 18 costs 16 points where a 16 costs 10 points.

[Amnestic]

I'm not quite clear on how we do point buy though with 3.5. Is it like the video games where if you go up to 18 on a stat you end up spending 3 points or something for it?


There are a few point buy calculators online. This one (http://emrilgame.netau.net/Dmstuff/pointbuy.html) is the one I use, though I know another which has PF and a few other systems on the same page.

[navar100]

27-25-23, combining rolling and point buy

1) Roll 4d6, drop lowest, three times. These are three of your scores. (Optional: hard limit at least a 7, so a really unlucky roll of four ones or 2, 2, 1, 1 still gives a 7.)

2) Take any one score and subtract it from 27. This is your 4th score. (Optional: hard limit max 18, thus if someone rolled unlucky and got a 7 he can't do 27 - 7 = 20)

3) Take another score and subtract it from 25. This is your 5th score.

4) Your last rolled score is subtracted from 23. This is your 6th score.

5) Add +2 to any one score. (Optional hard limit 18)

6) Arrange to taste and apply racial modifiers (Optional hard limit 18)

Example 1: Rolled 16, 16, 12

27 - 16 = 11
25 - 12 = 13
23 - 16 = 7

Array is 16, 16, 13, 12, 11, 7. Where to put the +2 is up to the player. A 13 to 15 is good for a MAD Class. Racial modifier will make a 16 an 18, the 12 a 10 for 18, 16, 15, 11, 10, 7. Perhaps put the +2 to a 16 and use racial modifier for the other 16 to get 18, 18, 13, 10, 11, 7. Maybe put the +2 in the 7 so that the dump stat of 9 doesn't hurt so much.

Example 2: Rolled 14, 13, 11

27 - 11 = 16
25 - 14 = 11
23 - 13 = 10

Array is 16, 14, 13, 11, 11, 10. Put the +2 in the 14 and use racial modifier to make one of the 16's an 18 and 13 to 11 for 18, 16, 11, 11, 11, 10. Alternatively, put the +2 in the 13 and racial modifiers for the 16 and 10 for 18, 15, 14, 11, 11, 8.

In Pathfinder, where races get two +2's and a -2 while humans and half-orcs get a +2 anywhere and no -2, calculations become more fascinating and you can get really good interesting arrays. Unfortunately monk is still too MAD. It's helped by this system but not much. The other classes work out fine, more Pathfinder than 3E for the paladin.

[Fyermind]

Pick a target point buy. Roll 4d6 drop the lowest 6 times. Use your choice of five of your rolled values and the value that rounds out your point buy to your target. Before racial modifiers, no ability score can be over 18, and your point buy score must be at least 8. If this is impossible, roll again.

You will always be a point buy equivalent character. Your scores are still random ish.

[killem2]

27-25-23, combining rolling and point buy

1) Roll 4d6, drop lowest, three times. These are three of your scores. (Optional: hard limit at least a 7, so a really unlucky roll of four ones or 2, 2, 1, 1 still gives a 7.)

2) Take any one score and subtract it from 27. This is your 4th score. (Optional: hard limit max 18, thus if someone rolled unlucky and got a 7 he can't do 27 - 7 = 20)

3) Take another score and subtract it from 25. This is your 5th score.

4) Your last rolled score is subtracted from 23. This is your 6th score.

5) Add +2 to any one score. (Optional hard limit 18)

6) Arrange to taste and apply racial modifiers (Optional hard limit 18)

Example 1: Rolled 16, 16, 12

27 - 16 = 11
25 - 12 = 13
23 - 16 = 7

Array is 16, 16, 13, 12, 11, 7. Where to put the +2 is up to the player. A 13 to 15 is good for a MAD Class. Racial modifier will make a 16 an 18, the 12 a 10 for 18, 16, 15, 11, 10, 7. Perhaps put the +2 to a 16 and use racial modifier for the other 16 to get 18, 18, 13, 10, 11, 7. Maybe put the +2 in the 7 so that the dump stat of 9 doesn't hurt so much.

Example 2: Rolled 14, 13, 11

27 - 11 = 16
25 - 14 = 11
23 - 13 = 10

Array is 16, 14, 13, 11, 11, 10. Put the +2 in the 14 and use racial modifier to make one of the 16's an 18 and 13 to 11 for 18, 16, 11, 11, 11, 10. Alternatively, put the +2 in the 13 and racial modifiers for the 16 and 10 for 18, 15, 14, 11, 11, 8.

In Pathfinder, where races get two +2's and a -2 while humans and half-orcs get a +2 anywhere and no -2, calculations become more fascinating and you can get really good interesting arrays. Unfortunately monk is still too MAD. It's helped by this system but not much. The other classes work out fine, more Pathfinder than 3E for the paladin.

This is a pretty good method.

I may even increase it to 5d6 drop lowest 2. Think that would be fair?

[ScubaGoomba]

Mine is pretty basic, but I have everyone roll a stat table (4d6, drop lowest) and, if they don't like it, they can reroll the table, but have to take the reroll. After that, I averaged out the point buy for each table and allowed any characters whose tables were below average to buy their way up to the average, using their table as the base. Anyone higher than the average didn't have to go down to average, but it prevented players from being absolutely screwed by bad rolls.

[Siosilvar]

This is a pretty good method.

I may even increase it to 5d6 drop lowest 2. Think that would be fair?

You'll end up with higher high stats and lower low stats due to the nature of the method. It won't increase anything but the variance between the stats unless you also increase the numbers, say to 29-26-23 or 29-27-25.

[navar100]

This is a pretty good method.

I may even increase it to 5d6 drop lowest 2. Think that would be fair?

Don't need to; it's self correcting. If you roll poorly, 10, 10, 7, then you do:

27 - 10 = 17
25 - 7 = 18
23 - 10 = 13

Array is 18, 17, 13, 10, 10, 7. Now add +2 to a score: 18, 17, 15, 10, 10, 7. Not a bad array. Add in racial modifiers.

If you so want to make it 5d6 drop two, instead don't have a hard limit 18.

10, 10, 7 can now give:

27 - 7 = 20
25 - 10 = 15
23 - 10 = 13

+2

20, 17, 13, 10, 10, 7. Add in racial modifiers. Say a human (+2 any one score) Pathfinder Paladin:

ST 20 DX 10 CO 15 IN 10 WI 7 CH 17. That hit to Will save will hurt despite Divine Grace. If it bothers too much take Iron Will feat or instead put the 7 in Intelligence and forgo skills. Just pick one or two you want to excel. Either way the 7 is going to hurt. Can't help that, but you got 20 Strength, 15 Constitution, and 17 Charisma. DX 10 means you're going for heavy armor. Wield a greatsword. Take Power Attack for 2d6 + 10 damage at level 1!

Level 4 CO becomes 16. Level 8 CH becomes 18.

[killem2]

Don't need to; it's self correcting. If you roll poorly, 10, 10, 7, then you do:

27 - 10 = 17
25 - 7 = 18
23 - 10 = 13

Array is 18, 17, 13, 10, 10, 7. Now add +2 to a score: 18, 17, 15, 10, 10, 7. Not a bad array. Add in racial modifiers.

If you so want to make it 5d6 drop two, instead don't have a hard limit 18.

10, 10, 7 can now give:

27 - 7 = 20
25 - 10 = 15
23 - 10 = 13

+2

20, 17, 13, 10, 10, 7. Add in racial modifiers. Say a human (+2 any one score) Pathfinder Paladin:

ST 20 DX 10 CO 15 IN 10 WI 7 CH 17. That hit to Will save will hurt despite Divine Grace. If it bothers too much take Iron Will feat or instead put the 7 in Intelligence and forgo skills. Just pick one or two you want to excel. Either way the 7 is going to hurt. Can't help that, but you got 20 Strength, 15 Constitution, and 17 Charisma. DX 10 means you're going for heavy armor. Wield a greatsword. Take Power Attack for 2d6 + 10 damage at level 1!

Level 4 CO becomes 16. Level 8 CH becomes 18.

Fair enough! 4d6 drop lowest is it then!