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ddude987
2013-04-10, 12:36 PM
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Hello everybody and welcome. This thread is for the discussion and logging of a campaign setting I have been working on. The setting is focused mainly on a metropolis and its surrounding area. While there are other places in the world, I have not only not yet developed them but do not with the players to go there as the point of this setting is to play in a well developed city campaign. The players can play at nearly any time in the cities timeline. Certain rules will apply based on the time and I will get around to creating a graphical timeline as well as a log in the "Campaign Setting Stuff" section of what is around when. I hope you all enjoy the campaign setting and I would love as much input as you are willing to give. Thank you.



Welcome to Minöst
<meen-ohst; "one city" - LOTR elven>


Minöst is a bustling metropolis. It is here that the events of the world relevant to players take place. Most people in Minöst know it as the “One City,” it being the only civilization in any given direction for many leagues. Much has happened to Minöst, starting from its founding, and much more will happen to it before the city sees the end of its days. Many structures are found in this city that can be found nowhere else in the world. From highways built hundreds of feet in the air to massive aqueducts bringing water from miles away; from floating islands to self-luminescent trees. The demographic of Minöst, though primarily human, is more diverse than anywhere else.

The massive highways, reaching up a hundred feet or more into the sky, have been built from stone. The upkeep of these highways is immense but so is the reward. Magical runes decorate parts of the highway, created from an incredibly rare and magical substance known as quicksilver, allowing horses to travel at double their usual pace under load. Though this magic has been used in other parts of the city, no success as great as these highways has occurred.

The great aqueducts, stretching from high in the mountains down into parts of the city, bring fresh water to many lords and ladies. While the common-folk often only have access to local wells, rich lords have full access to plentiful and fresh water. This water is not provided just for the lords' private use, but also for farmers in time of drought as well as public baths and stone fountains in wealthy town squares.

Guilds are also popular in the city. From the city guard who devote their lives to keeping the peace, to the rogues’ guild who devote their lives to secrecy and chaos. Mercenaries, merchants, and mages are found roaming the streets selling their wares and services.

To feed such a great city is quite a feat. Many farmers surrounding Minöst bring their harvest and cattle to the markets; however this is not enough to sustain such a vast city. Food is brought in from fishing along the coastline, and from great farms covering islands floating above Minöst. Dwarves farm mushrooms and roots underneath the city to make their famous ales and spirits. However, Minöst was not always such the city.

The history of Minöst reaches back many centuries to a time when several independent towns and cities existed in the area. They were friendly offered great trade between each other. It is said the largest of the cities lay at the heart of what is now Minöst, though its name has been lost for centuries. As the towns and cities grew, they expanded their borders and soon grew into one another. A kingly man suggested they band together in a mutual exchange and become one city. He became the ruler of this new city and the other town heads became his counsel.

As Minöst’s wealth grew, elves from forests near and far, and dwarves from the hills and dwarves from deep under the lone mountain came to the city to sell their arts. Craftsmanship from the dwarves was greater than any living resident had ever seen and elvish wine the finest. Soon many craftsman of these races left their homes and settled shops in Minöst. These people were the first to start a merchants’ guild in Minöst, which helped all who crafted sell their wares for fare prices. At the same time elves and humans began a movement to preserve the nearby forests, and began constructing their houses in and around them. Wondrous gardens were made deep within the exotic woods as the city grew around the forests. Alas, this golden age was not to last.

Soon Minöst was attacked, orcs by the eastern sea and barbarians from the western plains. Minöst was battered and destroyed all along the coast and beat the city back to the east of the lone mountain. After the onslaught, Minöst did not return to those areas. They relinquished ownership of their former city areas as well as the hillands and the southern swamps. Though no longer officially part of Minöst, those areas continued to claim being part of Minöst. The city began to rebuild slowly but surely the city grew back towards its former glory.

Many decades later, the city was hit with a plague. Many in the city began to die, and the presiding ruler put a quarantine on parts of the city. One of such locations were the floating islands, which at the time were an integrated part of the city. With no influx of food, and the plague ravaging them, all the islanders perished. Forsaken by the city, the islands remained void of city dwellers, save the occasional adventurer, for centuries. The origin of the plague is unknown, though many claim the plague was a curse from the gods thrown from the heavens onto the highest of the floating islands. Still others claim the plague originated from the swamps, the people living their unaffected from a natural immunity.


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The Great Structures of Minost

The great feats of social ingenuity and engineering combined with the mysterious prowess of magic have created some of the most efficient structures ever seen, even when compared to other planes. Challenges that face such a large city have been conquered with solutions from raised highways to massive aqueducts. Though usually only accessible for the wealthy, these structures can still be viewed in all districts of the city.

Highways
The massive highways, reaching up a hundred feet or more into the sky, have been built from stone. The upkeep of these highways is immense but so is the reward. Magical runes decorate parts of the highway, created from an incredibly rare and magical substance known as quicksilver, allowing horses to travel at double their usual pace under load. Though this magic has been used in other parts of the city, no success as great as these highways has occurred.
These highways are used for high speed travel to transport goods and wares of traveling merchants from hub to hub all around the city. The tax prices are steep for use of these highways, but most of the taxes are refunded into maintaining the highways, much to the church's dismay.
The Engineers guild is in charge of running and maintaining the highways. Worker's can be seen by day repairing or adding to the highways all across the city. The small bit of revenue that is generated from the highway tax is given to the church, though it is not uncommon for the collectors from the Engineers guild to skim money from these profits.

Aqueducts
The great aqueducts, stretching from high in the mountains down into parts of the city, bring fresh water to many lords and ladies. While the common-folk often only have access to local wells, rich lords have full access to plentiful and fresh water. This water is not provided just for the lords' private use, but also for for farmers in time of drought and for the stone fountains and public baths in many wealthy town squares.
Inside of Minost are two large mountains, one on the East and one on the West sides of the city. It is from here that the aqueducts bring water from. While the aqueducts are grand and well known, they only cover a very small portion of the city giving water to people at the base of the mountains and several miles out from there.
It is in these locations that some of the wealthiest parts of the city are, having become populated and wealthy after the installation of the aqueducts. Many rich merchants and artisans moved near the aqueducts bringing with them much wealth to the local town centers, much to the pleasure of many lords.

Temples
Minost contains grand towering temples funded and built by the church. The largest of these exist inside of the senate capital district, a large area sculpted with gardens and the most eloquent of houses reserved for members of the senate located deep within the city. The temples raised by the church are designed and crafted by the most experienced artisans and builders in the city. The outsides are decorated by stone imposing gargoyles, intricate archways and marble pillars. The inside walls and ceilings are painted with depictions of famous events or battles and stone figureheads of historical people. The floors have wondrous mosaics and the windows are made of multicolored stained glass crafted by the finest of artisans.

City Squares
These city hubs are places of dense population with many stores selling all sorts of goods. Fairs are often held in city hubs where traveling merchants all convene and large tournaments are held. Entertainment of all sorts, from gladiatorial styled fights, to jesters juggling swords can be found at these annual fairs. When fairs are not taking place, city hubs are often the places where people come to visit the local temple or socialize with other citizens.


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Guilds

City guard
The job of the city guards is to keep the peace within the city. Disputes between wealthy lords can sometimes turn into blood wars and so the city guard is always on patrol. Members of the city guard must swear a sacred oath to always do their best to keep the city's peace. Failure to uphold this vow can lead to exile or even death.
Much of the city guard is comprised of guards born as second sons to lords and wealthy merchants. Other guards were commoners at birth who had a certain respect towards being a city guard. Though most high ranking officials in the city guard strictly care for the protection of the city and keeping the peace, some commanders in the city guard are loyal to the church as are the guards under their leadership, and their loyalty will often lean in favor of the church when performing duties.

Rogues guild
The rogues guild is comprised of a collection of information brokers, thieves, and assassins. The majority of the guild is in the information brokers and thieves, many of which fill both roles, however several assassins do exist. While not every member of the rogues guild is an absolute professional, they rarely fail to complete a job.
Information is often passed to those who wish to buy it for some money and another piece of information. It is this way that the rogues guild keeps current when not sending information gatherers into the field. People gathering information for the rogues guild are nearly impossible to distinguish from your average person. Of the crowd of people craning their heads to see the latest arrest, or watch a building burn down, no average person could pick out the member of the rogues guild that is most likely in the crowd.
The rogues guild often trains small children to become footpads, cutting the purse of the casual passerby. Members of the rogues guild are all trained based on their assigned duty, though some commonalities between them all are being good at blending in with their surroundings, a basic understanding of avoiding being caught, and the ability to steal unnoticed in a crowd. After succeeding in all of those basic principles, trainees are then trained in more depth for the jobs they will be undertaking.

The "Mercs"
The mercenaries guild was founded to ensure mercenaries got their proper pay after performing a service as well as a way to conveniently hire somebody who will fill your needs. The jobs they take range from collecting a debt to protecting a merchant caravan moving outside the city towards the coastal regions. Their order is made up anybody from grizzled city guards looking for some extra pay, to thugs from a disbanded organized crime group.
The guild is often trying to improve the outlook on themselves and does not take kindly to members swindling those that hired them. Members that do not do honest work are considered lucky if they end up with broken legs, the regular punishment being death.

Engineers
The engineers are primarily comprised of gnomes, though many a human joins. The engineers guild gets hired by those in charge of city planning. The jobs they undertake are anything they believe will improve the technology in the city or make the city run smoother.
Some of the most famous creations of the engineers are large aquifers spanning through the city providing many people with running water and the sewer system, which is even implemented in most of the slums and ghettos. The paved streets often have a very slight peak in the center, allowing water to run off into the sewer system. The engineers have also constructed a vast and complex highway system raised high above the city. This stone structure stands a hundred feet high and connects several of the more popular, and wealthier, areas of the city. This highway is taxed but does not create much profit because of its high maintenance costs.
The engineers guild stores blueprints for everything structure and street in Minöst. These blueprints are dispersed among several of the guilds larger locations and are held in locked vaults along with the guilds treasury. The Engineers guild know many of the secret tunnels and passageways throughout the city, their knowledge of the city second only to the rogues guild.

Merchants
Merchants are in every populated area and Minost is no exception. The merchants are primarily composed of the wealth middle class. They specialize in buying and transporting goods throughout the city through the cities highways. Ever since the break off of the swamp and coastal regions the merchants guild has sent large caravans roaming those areas both buying and selling goods.
The members of the merchants guild pay an annual tribute to the government in exchange for a lower tax rate on goods they bring into the city. The merchants guild was founded by craftsman looking to sell their works at fair prices, and to this day that foundation is upheld.
Merchants are attacked by thieves and goods traveling by sea are subject to piracy. These pirates often do not associate themselves with Minost though occasionally a gang in the city is found responsible for taking ship and raiding merchant vessels. Thieves often steal very rare works of art, or the occasional magic item, and sell it for a low price, not knowing what it is really worth.




Farming and Cultivating
Farming is one of the largest and vital industries in Minöst. Without the amount of land dedicated to producing food for all of Minöst's people, such a city could not exist. Over the ages farming has grown and developed more efficient technologies. Farmers learned to rotate their fields annually so the soil does not become exhausted of its nutrients. Plows are made of iron or steel, allowing them to last longer and take less force to push. Animal refuse is collected and created into a fertilizer to help the crops grow.

Island Farming
The world of [world name] is full of natural wonders, from self-luminescent trees to floating islands. The islands were abandoned after the plague wiped out all the citizens living on them. After centuries of abandonment the islands were overgrown with wildlife and the old remnants of the city were mostly gone. The islands have been slowly retaken, little by little, each year the number of those farming on them increases. At one time people had gone to and from the islands with the use of quicksilver, but that knowledge had been lost centuries ago. Wooden elevators were created to climb the islands. Though most of the islands remain unpopulated, several of the lower islands have been almost completely converted into usable farmland. Farmers still occasionally find treasures among the ancient ruins buried deep under the soil.

Terrace Farming
Terrace farming, which inspired much of the island farming, has existed in the lone mountain since before Minost became unified. While most of [world name] is flat, several chains of mountains, as well as the occasional sole mountain, exist. It is here, centuries, nay, millennia ago , that farmers started terrace farming. The practice was large enough that entire communities were founded around areas of terrace farming. These communities had a very unique culture and their own gods. They refer to their gods as the "old" gods that used to exist and will one day return to the world. Since the barbarian invasion, the area around the terrace farmers has become less of a metropolis though the city still relies on the farmers' harvest to feed its people.

Underground Farming
Many large hills have been hollowed out by communities of dwarves, or the occasional human, for houses. Several species of plants grow well underground, including several varieties of edible mushrooms and roots. As such, several hill dwarves make a living growing these plants and bringing them to market. Many of the species of mushroom are also used to brew famous dwarven ales and spirits. While the mountain dwarves often scoff at their kin for living in the dirt and farming, the hill dwarves are quite comfortable living in small underground houses instead of the vast cavernous abyss of the underground.

Fishing
Parts of the city, or former city, fish the ocean daily. They bring a variety of fish to the market as well as several species of crustacean for those who can afford it. For the fisherman who travel past the coastal islands and venture out into the open sea, bigger fish, such as sharks, and the occasional giant squid are caught. The open waters see fishermen few and far between, and those that do come stay for several weeks, completely filling their fishing hold. Only the sturdiest of ocean craft can survive out in these waters, and rarely can any ship stay afloat during a large storm.


Terrain and Regions

Mountain Region
The climate in near and around the Lone Mountain ranges from moderate to highland. Rolling hills at the base of the mountain turn into rocky outcroppings thin soil as one travels up the mountain. Small rivers are found coming out from underground higher on the mountain and traveling down to the base of the mountain. These rivers provide freshwater for terrace farmers at the base of the mountain as well as water for vast plant growth.
Small deciduous woods grow in patches around the eastern base of the mountain. Here is home to many species of animals. During the cold winters these animals travel south to the marshlands or hibernate in the many natural caves in the area. Edible root plants and herbs are found growing naturally in these woods. It is thought here is where the terrace farmers first got their seed for their crop.
Many of the natural caves in the area lead down into the depths of the mountain. Here is a dry and cold place. Many dwarven ruins can be found in the heart of the mountain. Though the dwarves still inhabit the mountain, their strongholds reach is nowhere close to what it was before the dwarves closed the mountain. These ancient ruins are now home to vermin. It is rumored the ruins are also inhabited by supernatural creatures of darkness.

Southern Swamp Region
The swamplands are humid year round and are subject to heavy rains. The inhabitants of these lands have little dry land to live on and stick to floating platforms or the trees. Hundreds of species of mushrooms and mosses grow in these lands. Some edible, most so poisonous a touch could leave a rash and ingestion is sure death.
Below the dense groupings of deciduous forest lay a land secretly teeming with life. Many animals living here live below the surface of the water, or move across the land silently. Bottom feeding fish longer than a man's arm live in the muck below the surface. Completely harmless except for a few small teeth, these fish are easy to catch and are the regular meal of the swamplands inhabitants. Many birds fly through the trees, their feathers blending in with their surroundings.
Between the dense clumps of trees and bogs are clean rivers. Shallow clear rivers flow from North to South bringing the fresh water out to sea. These rivers have little sediment as the trees surrounding them act as natural filters for the muck that turns the bogs an opaque brown.

Western Plains
West of the Lone Mountain are the plains of [name]. These hot dry flatlands expand westward across the continent. Grass, taller than riders on horseback, covers much of the plains. The grasses roots are deeply imbedded in the soil and hold large quantities of water gathered during the semiannual rains. Twice a year, on the summer and winter solstice, rain falls upon the plains. Lasting a week, heavy downpour floods the fields as lightning streaks across the sky and thunder booms, echoing for miles.
Snakes, horses, and large cats are found roaming the vast plains. A peculiar type of fish that breathes mud comes alive during the semiannual rains. They rise from the ground to mate and lay eggs before sinking back beneath the soil. What these fish do the rest of the year, and how the survive, is unknown; however, it is known these fish taste terrible and no animal dare touches them even when starving.
Though the plains are relatively dry, there are oases dotted around. Here animals, and roaming tribes, come to drink fresh water. Animals also hunt fish in the oases, though no land roaming animal will hunt another land roaming animal within sight of an oases. The local tribes say it is the spirit of the protector who created these oases so that there could be life and killing within sight of these sacred creations will invoke the spirits wrath.

Eastern Coast
The eastern coast has a wide range of features, from sky high cliffs to bottomless tide pools, from jungles to volcanic activity. Stretching from high in the north, nearing the island of [name], a sub-arctic island devoid of life, to southwest in the marshlands, the eastern coast has a wide range of climates. The similar feature all these climates share is cool ocean breezes year round keeping the air moist and preventing freezing. This allows some of the hardier crops to be grown along the coast year round.
Several large fresh water rivers connect with the ocean on the coast. Here a blending of fresh and salt water creates a different environment for life under the surface. The sediment from these rivers clouds the otherwise clear blue water hiding both creatures and boat hazards beneath the surface. Shipwrecks can be found here both above the surface, beached on sandbars, and deep below the surface masked from view.
Natural harbors and inlets are found along the coast. It is common for towns to use these natural harbors as their shipyards so docked ships are safe from harm. Natural harbors found near the tall cliff faces on parts of the coast often have large waterfalls, many of which have caves behind them. Others are surrounded by green rolling hills covered in grasses and flowers that only grow so near the ocean.
A wide range of life is found below the surface of the water. Different species of fish, from bright vibrant colored schools to muddy brown bottom feeders, live here. Clams and oysters attach themselves to rocks or shipwrecks at the bottom of the seas making harvesting them dangerous but well worth the effort. Several large coral reefs are found towards the south close to shore, but far away from any fresh water or sediment runoff from rivers.

Islands
Hundreds of islands with varying sizes and features exist all along the eastern coast. The islands closer to shore have been colonized by the people of Minost and do not support the exotic wonders found on more remote islands. Some of these remote islands are barren rocks, others cold and frozen, and still others full of jungles and exotic animals. Islands far north tend to be colder and dryer than those in the south. Northern islands are generally low rocky outcroppings covered in ice and fully devoid of visible life. During the peak of the summer the ice melts allowing grasses and shrubs grow.
Islands along the mid and southern portions of the eastern coast are far more interesting than their northern cousins. Some of these islands have volcanoes or tall mountains with lush forest growing on the lower altitudes. Freshwater lakes and rivers are found meandering through the forest providing local wildlife and natives with drinking water. Species of colorful birds, giant insects, and large reptiles found on these islands exist nowhere else.
Other islands support tall, sheer cliff faces with vines growing down them and tree roots peeking out of the earth. Bats and birds make nests in natural caves along these cliff faces. Native tribes on these islands carve giant turtle statues in the cliff faces. Oftentimes these cliffs are broken up by rivers flowing between them creating wide gaps. Tribes construct rope bridges out of vines and wood to span these chasms.

Forest
Forests, new and old, can be found throughout the land of Meenost. Before the golden age of Meenost entire forests were cut down and have been slow to recover. Those that were saved contain trees thousands of years old safe from the ravages of time. Deep within the oldest of forests lies the tree of life. It is thought by the elves this great tree was an elvish queen of old who gave her life up to save her people. The elvish goddess saw her noble sacrifice and put her soul inside of a tree. This tree is self-luminescent and it is said all of the smaller self-luminescent trees are her children. To this day she watches over all forests ensuring they are safe from complete annihilation.

Unfinished terrain (My notes)

Mountain
Base
Climate: Moderate Highland
Temperature:
Terrain (general): Rocky, hills
Terrain (specific): Cliffs, Rivers (small)
Plants: Shrubs, deciduous trees, pine trees, grass, lichen, moss
Animals: Goats, mountain lion, snakes
Other:

Under
Climate: Dry Cold Underground
Temperature:
Terrain (general): Rocky, Icy
Terrain (specific): Cliffs, Caves, Rivers, Lakes
Plants: Mushrooms, roots
Animals: Supernatural
Other:

Mid
Climate: Highland
Temperature:
Terrain (general): Rocky, Icy
Terrain (specific): Cliffs
Plants: Shrubs, pine trees, lichen, moss
Animals: Goats, large predatory birds
Other:


Swampland
Climate: Humid subtropical
Temperature:
Terrain (general): Fresh water, little dry land
Terrain (specific):
Plants: Deciduous trees, underbrush, moss, lichen, mushrooms, ivy
Animals: Freshwater fish, reptiles, few birds
Other:

Plains
Climate: Semiarid
Temperature:
Terrain (general): Freshwater, flat
Terrain (specific): Rivers, rolling hills near mountains
Plants: Few deciduous trees, shrubs, mixed tall grasses
Animals: 4 legged mammals (large cats, gazelle, et cetra)
Other:

Coast
Climate: Humid oceanic
Temperature:
Terrain (general): Fresh and salt water
Terrain (specific): Rivers, ocean, cliffs, beaches (sand and dirt)
Plants: Vines on cliffs, interspersed deciduous forest, grasses
Animals: fish, octopi, shellfish, seagulls
Other:

Islands
Climate: Humid oceanic
Temperature:
Terrain (general): Mostly salt water
Terrain (specific): Rivers, ocean, cliffs, beaches (sand and gravel)
Plants: Vines on cliffs, exotic hardwoods, palm trees, few grasses, bushes
Animals: fish, octopi, shellfish, seagulls, exotic vibrant colored birds, exotic fish, large cats
Other: Volcanos

Forest
Climate: Subtropical dry
Temperature:
Terrain (general): Freshwater, mixed flat and hills
Terrain (specific): Rivers, lakes, rock formations, valleys, cliffs
Plants: Vines on cliffs, fully deciduous trees of varying density, berries, underbrush, ivy, bushes
Animals: birds, 4 legged mammals, bats, snakes, turtles, freshwater (shell)fish
Other: Caves

Campaign Setting Stuff

Currently debating making this CS E8
Currently project: Paladin

Current Class Fixes (PEACH)

All martial classes will be improved
Fighter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=282851)
Paladin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=288278)


Class Fixes Remaining

-Barbarian
-Hexblade
-Monk
-Ranger
-Rogue
-Duskblade
-Swashbuckler
-Scout


Classes Removed

-adept
-healer
-ninja
-samurai
-knight
-truenamer

____________________
Changes
-Fighter only feats removed from the game
-Cloistered Cleric is default, phb cleric is ACF
-Dragonfire adept and dragon shaman merged
-Sorcerer d6 hit die
-Sorcerer bonus feats as Wizard
-Ranger animal companion as PHB Druid
-Druid animal companion as PHB Druid -3 levels

sktarq
2013-04-10, 12:44 PM
Well when you say "city world" do you mean developed or urban? Because if you mean the later then how do they grow food? mine or harvest building materials? dump waste material? Its not imporssible (extra diminional space that is unhealthy to long term sentient residents or something) to do urban but kinda hard.
Also is it all one city or are there several cities that grow out from their own centres and whose suburbs brush up to each other?
Are they all politically linked? if seperate nations how friendly are they? If not friendly why would anyone live in the boarder areas which would be potential war zones if not involved in cross boarder trade?
Finnally what about oceans? are there big ones? those would be large areas that would normally be without urban development but in a D&D world could be via aquatic races or magical construction.

ddude987
2013-04-10, 12:50 PM
Well when you say "city world" do you mean developed or urban? Because if you mean the later then how do they grow food? mine or harvest building materials? dump waste material? Its not imporssible (extra diminional space that is unhealthy to long term sentient residents or something) to do urban but kinda hard.
Also is it all one city or are there several cities that grow out from their own centres and whose suburbs brush up to each other?
Are they all politically linked? if seperate nations how friendly are they? If not friendly why would anyone live in the boarder areas which would be potential war zones if not involved in cross boarder trade?
Finnally what about oceans? are there big ones? those would be large areas that would normally be without urban development but in a D&D world could be via aquatic races or magical construction.

Thanks. Updated OP.

sktarq
2013-04-10, 04:01 PM
okay. From here come the questions.
What kind of stories do you want to tell in this world?
No really that's the main one and the only one that matters. D&D is about having fun with stories. The PC play the main character protaganists and you the DM provide the rest. Sooooo.....what are we talking about here?
Investigation vs intrigue vs combat - what kind of balence with this are you planning?
Do you want lots of dungeon crawls? if so there better be good abandoned places to loot, reseasons they have been abandoned and reasons they have not been looted before.
How easy do you want it to be for the players to build local influence?
Why do people hire adventurers (basically mercs) if the place is peaceful enough to not rebel and the city guard/watch exists? Not going to adventure stories that the city watch would handle? Corrupt and only watch in the nice parts of town? Doing possibly illegal things the CW wouldn't approve?
How are you going to handle monsters? Most monstyers need space away from people to breed, grow up, become dangerous etc before they start eating villagers....why wouldn't the CW have killed them before this point? Not that many mosters can hide long enough to live there forever. Do you focus on the ones that do? Is there a subterenean "wilderness" that acts as a storehouse for monsters that are rarely active unti the story needs them? Drop big monsters all together and only use those that could be integrated into the city and class levels to boost CR as needed? Are monsters invaders from space?
what kind of feel do you want to give this game? Moods? Movies? Themes? Eras? What are you drawing your insperation from? Is magic being used as tech in places?
also why adventure here vs Waterdeep, Greyhawk, or Sharn? Other big cities that an entire game could be run never leaving the city limits?

do you want to give a sense of looming doom? overpopulation, scare resources, a glorious gem of a world past its prime with the long minded and cutthroat looking to the world after the city's fall....or is a world where with pluck and gall anyone can make anything of themselves and a chance to stand before millions of greatful fellow citizens....

also-that ocean question. Think on it-it will define the shape of your city when you start making maps.

also climate. It gives the backdrop to the world and rather sets the lighting and drop painting that people use in their internal movie version of the story and is thus important. How much does it vary by place? how much will it drive people outside or inside? How much plantlife will exist in these cities?

Also if there is one big city on the world but it has farms and mine etc supporting it-is the urban area one big mass or is it more like a spider web wrapped around the planet with tenemenats looking out at farmfield in one area and snow covered lumberyard over there and ..... you get the idea.

Geordnet
2013-04-10, 04:52 PM
Well, the first thing I think of when you say "the whole world is one city" is "how does it work?"

I mean, if there's farms enough to feed everyone wouldn't that farmland be rural instead of urban? So, unless the material plane is fairly small and regularly imports food from extradimensional agriculture, the whole thing seems to lack internal consistency.

I'd recommend that you go from "the entire world is one city" to "there is one enormous megacity which dominates the entire world". That way leaves more room for the whole thing to sound plausible.

ddude987
2013-04-10, 05:24 PM
okay. From here come the questions.
What kind of stories do you want to tell in this world?
No really that's the main one and the only one that matters. D&D is about having fun with stories. The PC play the main character protaganists and you the DM provide the rest. Sooooo.....what are we talking about here?
Investigation vs intrigue vs combat - what kind of balence with this are you planning?
Do you want lots of dungeon crawls? if so there better be good abandoned places to loot, reseasons they have been abandoned and reasons they have not been looted before.
How easy do you want it to be for the players to build local influence?
Why do people hire adventurers (basically mercs) if the place is peaceful enough to not rebel and the city guard/watch exists? Not going to adventure stories that the city watch would handle? Corrupt and only watch in the nice parts of town? Doing possibly illegal things the CW wouldn't approve?
How are you going to handle monsters? Most monstyers need space away from people to breed, grow up, become dangerous etc before they start eating villagers....why wouldn't the CW have killed them before this point? Not that many mosters can hide long enough to live there forever. Do you focus on the ones that do? Is there a subterenean "wilderness" that acts as a storehouse for monsters that are rarely active unti the story needs them? Drop big monsters all together and only use those that could be integrated into the city and class levels to boost CR as needed? Are monsters invaders from space?
what kind of feel do you want to give this game? Moods? Movies? Themes? Eras? What are you drawing your insperation from? Is magic being used as tech in places?
also why adventure here vs Waterdeep, Greyhawk, or Sharn? Other big cities that an entire game could be run never leaving the city limits?

do you want to give a sense of looming doom? overpopulation, scare resources, a glorious gem of a world past its prime with the long minded and cutthroat looking to the world after the city's fall....or is a world where with pluck and gall anyone can make anything of themselves and a chance to stand before millions of greatful fellow citizens....

also-that ocean question. Think on it-it will define the shape of your city when you start making maps.

also climate. It gives the backdrop to the world and rather sets the lighting and drop painting that people use in their internal movie version of the story and is thus important. How much does it vary by place? how much will it drive people outside or inside? How much plantlife will exist in these cities?

Also if there is one big city on the world but it has farms and mine etc supporting it-is the urban area one big mass or is it more like a spider web wrapped around the planet with tenemenats looking out at farmfield in one area and snow covered lumberyard over there and ..... you get the idea.

Well in terms of stories, the majority of the people I play DnD with love combat. Generally they are slightly dense and do not always think about all the possibilities and the first idea that comes to mind is usually the one they roll with. Investigations is certainly something they usually enjoy and small social encounters. Ideally getting hired to do jobs is usually what they pull off best.
In terms of monsters, the majority of sentient monsters will be socially accepted in one way or another. Non sentient monsters however will either dwell in the few wildernesses that exist in and around the city or be nonexistent. Things like Hydras or what have you may be in short supply and bred for gladiatorial games and sport (and perhaps for their meat).
I want to provide the players with a sense that the city seems to be in a golden age. Things seem to be running perfect to those who do not look close enough. Small roots of corruption exsist here and here, as well as radical extremist groups growing larger and more known, haven't thought of what kind of extremist groups there could be... Perhaps one of nature, one of structure, and on of a combination of both.



Well, the first thing I think of when you say "the whole world is one city" is "how does it work?"

I mean, if there's farms enough to feed everyone wouldn't that farmland be rural instead of urban? So, unless the material plane is fairly small and regularly imports food from extradimensional agriculture, the whole thing seems to lack internal consistency.

I'd recommend that you go from "the entire world is one city" to "there is one enormous megacity which dominates the entire world". That way leaves more room for the whole thing to sound plausible.

This is a good question. I have not thought of farms as of yet. The only idea I had was to have the world be extremely magical and things like floating islands or natural underground areas that are viable for growing plants and living in.



I really like the idea of the city being more spider like and webbing around the world rather than just a dense massive city.
Also, not sure if I put it in the OP but I had an idea to make two main fundamentals in the city: Natural vs Structured. The two would be diametrically opposing and be primarily politically based. I have not been able to think of how to expand this idea further. Though I do plan on having guilds that run different things in the city such as a bank or two, a thieves guild (too cliche?), and the city guard (mainly paladins? Lawful Good (not stupid!, remake the code) Or just worshipers of the general faith overall).

The government as I have it so far will be a senate and run by 3 factions, the naturals, the structured, and religious. As well as single or dual representatives from some larger guilds.

Will update OP. Thanks so far for help.

Edit: OP has been updated. Will keep writing more information as I think of it. I would really like to expand on what is there so far.

Edit: Edit: Also have not gotten to deciding about aquatic races and underwater areas. Possibly glass structures with buildings in them (Minecraft inspiration)

sktarq
2013-04-10, 09:21 PM
er...okay I'm going to double check a couple definitions from my first question.
Developed. As in non wilderness. A wheat field is developed land, cow pastures, silvaculture (growing trees for their lumber as a long term crop mostly), mines etc. Can have rather low population densities in places like large desert cattle ranches, silvaculture forests, etc. Rural but civilized.
Urban a city with its paved streets and buildings being the dominant feature. few towns would have more than a square mile of urban terrain in classic D&D.
So when I said the world was mostly developed that gives you food and fuel and raw materials to run your city.An mostly urban city is very hard it justify. Losts of issues with food, water, waste disposal. Lots of magic handwaving necessary. Questions of what people do here or there in the city crop up. It's difficult. . . the more probing, perceptive

Also golden age games are one of the HARDEST types of games to run. Why? because it is more difficult to find things for the PC's do when it comes down to it. Most PCs (and definitely yours by the sound of it) can be summed up as murder-hobos and mercenaries. If the city is doing well, there are no outsiders to unite against or have conflict with and things are going well then it follows that the city guard/watch etc would be able to handle monsters or mediate disputes that in less pleasant times would make great plot hooks for the PC's. The Chinese curse "may you live in interesting times" is like manna from heaven for a DM. The easiest thing to do in golden age games I've found for people who make a living adventuring is exploring new things that their culture hasn't had access to before because they were too tired up at home with their problems. Now there is money to explore old ruins because competing in status with old relics is now a viable use of cash for the elite who have cash left over from paying their guards, their farmers etc. Or Going off to far off lands to bring back new trade goods etc. Both of these are off the table if the whole world is dominated by a single city.
Having just passed a golden age with a sense that things could either go on to a second golden age or fall into a dark age can be fun and much easier. More people are plotting with reasonable chances of winning. (In a golden age who is upset enough to really shake the boat? and wouldn't those liking it move to stop any who are?). Also you said your players are mostly combat types. Combat happens either with outsiders in a society (orc raiders, bandits, lich lord, criminal (who are considered outsiders based upon their actions) or a war) or generally are not considered very civilized. The use of force against one's in group is generally looked down upon in civilized company and in golden ages even more so as it is harder to justify. With a single city and thus society uniting the world outsiders are going to be rather few. So who are they going to fight? Be sure to give you players a reason to draw a sword in an area and time when the fewest people around them are doing so.

As for the idea of a web style world spanning city an Idea of how such a thing might happen. Even if you don't use it as a history I hope it inspires you to think about WHY such a city would develop.-Spoilered for length


Originally the land was divided into many bronze or early iron age city states regularly warring and competing locally. Merchant caravans traveled from city to city moving goods. In a few widely spaced cities these merchants or guilds allied with them rose to take control of these cities. These cities realized that if they allied together they could control a much larger amount of trade and open longer distance trade routes than ever before. Banding together and claiming political neutrality they formed the ***** league. Each hub would trade with the city states surrounding it and ship these good s to other hubs who would distribute those goods in nearby city states where the most profit could be made.
This plan required a solid system of Hub to Hub roads which were negotiated with the local lords easily enough. The roads would bring traders who would spend gold in inns and taverns and brought exotic wares to markets...or their other caravans that headed to their capital did. And cooperating with the league often meant more caravans heading to a lord's capital whilst opposing them or trying to tax their comings and goings meant that a lord opponents and rivals would get better trade opportunities and discounts on weapons and magical components. In only a century and a half a neutral network of roads had been built called the broadways.
As time passed towns formed to serve the caravans and other broadway traffic. Inns, and suppliers of food and fresh draft beasts. Merchants looking to buy goods off the wagons instead of traveling all the way to a city could supply a nearby satellite village at a fraction of the cost. Over time more people settled along the road, places to stop for lunch or at different distances depending on the speed the caravan was traveling.
These people themselves needed grocers and builders who build houses nearby often on streets that grew off of the main broadway.
With towns a villages now spotting the roadway farmers could bring their crops to the road as well as the local capital and many of the old city states began to fade as the population shifted.
Not all such cities faded of course. Some sat at natural forks for the broadways and others had either allied early with the league and were granted such forks or were able to keep their commercial importance through other means.
Some tried to control their loss of power through force. But with money rolling in and already controlling the largest military force of the planet in the many guards traveling with the caravans few cities were able to do more than disrupt a single broadway for a season or two before being crushed by the league's mercenary force.
As the towns and villages along the broadway grew more and more services where being offered, the bathhouses and farriers were joined by entertainers and scribes. These towns themselves were now an important trade destination for the caravans in and of themselves. Made all the cheaper by their easy access to the broadways.
Actually by this time access wasn't always so easy. Local traffic and long range caravan competed for space on a now congested system. So busy sections had parallel broadways built to run nearby as express routes to be uncluttered by the local or even regional traffic. They we not built far away. Generally no more than a mile from the original-so many towns sat between the two broadways. In some places the back side of the broadway based towns were torn down to make way. In other areas the express broadway was sometimes built in the sky by way of pillars and bridges.
Eventually the distance between the towns and villages lining the broadways became negligible in for much of its length. Local lords having shifted the bulk of their city stat's population and economy to choice points and broadways themselves were so dependent on the league that they became little more than magistrates and caretakers in their own kingdoms. This interdependence meant that if even a single link in the system was threatened by a local lord the league could be sure to have soldiers and mercenaries from lord near and far to help open the broadway for fear of the damage it could inflict on their own tax base if traffic slowed. Even conflict between neighboring lords could cause such a response if others feared it might lead to disruptions on what had become the lifeblood of all nations.
As more people lived along the braodways goods and services that had once been limited to the cities started springing up along them. usable by both local and traveler alike. The very expectations that a traveler could fine goods formerly limited to capitals of great tribes and the most wealthy of city states somewhere within a days ride along the broadway led to a market that would provide such things.
The broadway system allowed goods from formerly marginal land to make their way into great markets and thus made settling or developing land formerly seen as inhospitable a tempting proposition.
In this they were helped by a keen eye for profit, even if that meant working with races unexpectedly. Certain local orc and hobgoblin tribes were approached and soon fond ready markets for whatever they could sell. Usually these were things stolen from other nearby such tribes. Though some tribes made agreements to "liberate" and return items each other had raided from the broadways initially eventually this led to the more placable of the races being integrated int the broadways themselves and given allies and power to dominate those who had refused.
As the population of along the routes grew the cities that they in theory led to became almost secondary destinations-the action was really along the roadsides. Those initial cities slowly lost many of the skilled laborers that made them so different to the surrounding regions. They focused on the rarest skills, transfer points between caravans, storage, and learning.
On some links of the broadways even the expressways were not enough and more had to be laid down. And with peace and experience investment in massive bridges and tunnels seemed worthwhile.
These kinds of shifts in the broadways moved traffic from some of the older original broadways and expressways causing the less used areas to fall into comparative disrepair and even slums grew up around these areas.
Farmers now planted every acre they could to feed insatiable beast. With a market the size of the population of the world never more than a hundred league away no resource seemed unmarketable. Stone of every colour and type would be quarried to build new cathredrals and trading house vying to space near the byways as access to the heaving masses on the roads themselves had been taken for thousands of miles in every path on the system years before.
Eventually the league saw themselves as masters of the world able to control everything through access to the broadways for their own profit. While grand palaces rose in some areas the tarriffs threatened to bankrupt much of the rest of the world.
Eventually riots erupted that could not be put down. Local lords acted indifferent to which side of a painted line that represented their old boarders the trouble was on Eventually the masters of the league were thrown down but as the dust cleared and while the victorious dances, orgies, and songs still dominated the broadways themselves the more thoughtful realized that all those along the broadway really were a single community they had lived together, traded, talked, walked besides each others home, and now fought and bled together. Others who didn't live on the system itself were as dependent on it as a market and source of necessary goods as could be. They were one. From momentum as much as anything people continued to trade and move along the broadways as they had for several centuries now for the decade it took for the larger idea and governance of the all the communities that lined every link of the system to be brought together. But it happened, the Damage has been rebuild and even new expressways and links have been laid in the years since the league was overthrown. The profits that league once took for themselves pours through markets all along the great city of the world. The great palaces and wonders they build to their own glory have been repurposed. and life of along the great system thrives.


there I hope it gives you a few ideas.
Some things that would the above would would mean in game play. Most of the city would be linear so if one moved away from the broadways, expressways etc one would find farms and dairies supplying the area with fresh veg and milk within a couple miles but could go along the system for miles without seeing and open field for years.
It would push themes of entrepreneurship, mercantilism and a sense of motion and constant movement that one gets from images NY traffic at rush hour. that sense of business and busy-ness that comes in an urban environment.
Original cities and hubs would still maintain some of their old character giving good reasons for differences of imagery and style or even secondary language and such. they would also have their own climates. Desert regions, arctic, montane and which some of their own architectural styles.
Now every set up will have things like this. Pros and cons whatever ideas you come up put them through the same kind of - what are the consequences of this system wringer to see if that would help to produce the kind of game you want to play.

ddude987
2013-04-10, 11:18 PM
snip
Yes, murder hobos sums them up.

Okay so that was a lot of awesome inspiration. My plan is to have the known world relatively small. The city will be spider-like, cities forming close together with semi-dense population in between them but also many bordering low population rural areas with farms and the like. Many "cities" (densely populated areas) may contain unique cultural differences but the overall population is under the rule of the senate.

I like the idea of just exiting a golden age. I am not sure how exactly that would look but its a nice idea. I have some thought for extremist groups that would ruff things up. Also old parts of cities, or old old ruins of civilization that once stood. In addition to these things, the church can be corrupt and by extension the city guard. Perhaps a group of the city guard broke off and is now considered a rebel group but really is trying to fix things. Opposing senators and guilds will be scheming to overthrow each other.

Thanks for all that input. On a side note, I put in a little bit about the gods. I am not set in stone on anything yet so they might change.

the_david
2013-04-11, 12:10 AM
I love it!

One enormous city on a single continent. At some places the city will have to make way for farms so you've got some little islands of farm. (Plant Growth helps.) Fishing is another way to provide food. Poverty can be found at those places that are far away from both.
One government means there will be no war. This doesn't mean there won't be revolutions and civil wars, though. A power struggle between factions is much more interesting though.
And the ecology ofcourse. The city will be filled with monsters that hide among the commoners. And the races you might find there. I'd suggest mongrelfolk, orcs and hobgoblins to start with. Just to mess with the players.

ddude987
2013-04-11, 12:41 PM
I love it!

One enormous city on a single continent. At some places the city will have to make way for farms so you've got some little islands of farm. (Plant Growth helps.) Fishing is another way to provide food. Poverty can be found at those places that are far away from both.
One government means there will be no war. This doesn't mean there won't be revolutions and civil wars, though. A power struggle between factions is much more interesting though.
And the ecology ofcourse. The city will be filled with monsters that hide among the commoners. And the races you might find there. I'd suggest mongrelfolk, orcs and hobgoblins to start with. Just to mess with the players.

That would be funny. I think I am also going to go into a bit of detail, about as much as I did with the guilds, about different gangs and ghettos especially the larger ones. Also just because its one city doesn't mean there aren't things like orc pirates out on the oceans attacking ships and what have you. My goal for today is to expand the stuff about the guilds to about 3 paragraphs each.

the_david
2013-04-11, 02:10 PM
I've got a little tip for you:
http://www222.pair.com/sjohn/blueroom/demog.htm

So a city with a population of 1 billion people should occupy 25740 square miles.
You'll need 4166667 square miles of land to feed those people. (That's assuming you use Plant Growth)

ddude987
2013-04-11, 02:31 PM
I've got a little tip for you:
http://www222.pair.com/sjohn/blueroom/demog.htm

So a city with a population of 1 billion people should occupy 25740 square miles.
You'll need 4166667 square miles of land to feed those people. (That's assuming you use Plant Growth)

Alright I will keep that in mind. I feel like 1 bil. people might be to many. Thank you for the link. After I finish updated the guilds I think I'll start working on the city logistics.

Geordnet
2013-04-11, 02:54 PM
I suggest coming up with some sort of unique transportation system. This will depend a lot on your tech/magic level.

Actually, it might be better to have multiple competing systems, which have different advantages and disadvantages over each other.


Here's a suggestion:

The Bullet Express:
Imagine building a massive 15m long by 10m diameter bullet made of adamantine. Now imagine four huge golems or earth elementals spending half an hour winding up a set of giant adamantine springs with 5 Gigajoules of energy. Imagine a beefy troll or ogre in a conductor's outfit bringing a large hammer down on an even larger switch to release the latch holding the springs back, propelling a plunger that sends the aforementioned projectile shooting out of the station at over twice the speed of sound. Imagine a series of rings suspended in the air which use magic to keep the bullet on track. Imagine then catching the bullet in a station just like the one it was sent from, setting it's plunger halfway towards being ready to shoot it back.

Now, imagine hollowing the bullet out and filling it with people. And sending it back and forth twice an hour. :smallbiggrin:

Advantages:

Very fast
Provides regular transit between districts
Can get you across half the city in a day (using the relay method)

Disadvantages:

Very jarring start and stop

(Although, the passengers should be grateful that magic keeps them from becoming bloodstains on the wall.)

Extensive setup/infrastructure required
Little room for cargo
Demand exceeds supply (so, it's expensive to ride)
Noisy (what, with the sonic boom and all)

the_david
2013-04-11, 03:28 PM
Just for the record, 4.2 million square miles is a bit larger than China. (3.7 million) you can't really call it much of a continent and it would be mostly agicultural land. (Less than 1% would be city.)

ddude987
2013-04-11, 03:49 PM
Just for the record, 4.2 million square miles is a bit larger than China. (3.7 million) you can't really call it much of a continent and it would be mostly agicultural land. (Less than 1% would be city.)

It is a good thing the game is taking place in a world with magic then.


I suggest coming up with some sort of unique transportation system. This will depend a lot on your tech/magic level.

Actually, it might be better to have multiple competing systems, which have different advantages and disadvantages over each other.


Here's a suggestion:

The Bullet Express:
Imagine building a massive 15m long by 10m diameter bullet made of adamantine. Now imagine four huge golems or earth elementals spending half an hour winding up a set of giant adamantine springs with 5 Gigajoules of energy. Imagine a beefy troll or ogre in a conductor's outfit bringing a large hammer down on an even larger switch to release the latch holding the springs back, propelling a plunger that sends the aforementioned projectile shooting out of the station at over twice the speed of sound. Imagine a series of rings suspended in the air which use magic to keep the bullet on track. Imagine then catching the bullet in a station just like the one it was sent from, setting it's plunger halfway towards being ready to shoot it back.

Now, imagine hollowing the bullet out and filling it with people. And sending it back and forth twice an hour. :smallbiggrin:

Advantages:

Very fast
Provides regular transit between districts
Can get you across half the city in a day (using the relay method)

Disadvantages:

Very jarring start and stop

(Although, the passengers should be grateful that magic keeps them from becoming bloodstains on the wall.)

Extensive setup/infrastructure required
Little room for cargo
Demand exceeds supply (so, it's expensive to ride)
Noisy (what, with the sonic boom and all)


Well... that...is...interesting. I have not thought about public transportation. I figured horse drawn carriages would be the popular mode of transport, and given there are super highways they would not need to worry about running into to many people. That is something I will need to think about.

I think that your idea is to silly. While there is highly advanced and engineered structures such as highways and aqueducts, I do not want to go beyond that. I think the feeling I am getting from this is ancient Rome.

Geordnet
2013-04-11, 04:50 PM
Well... that...is...interesting. I have not thought about public transportation. I figured horse drawn carriages would be the popular mode of transport, and given there are super highways they would not need to worry about running into to many people. That is something I will need to think about.

I think that your idea is to silly. While there is highly advanced and engineered structures such as highways and aqueducts, I do not want to go beyond that. I think the feeling I am getting from this is ancient Rome.
Ah, well it was supposed to be a bit over-the-top; but I guess I've misjudged the theme of your setting.


Still, I'm a bit incredulous of horse-drawn wagons being sufficient for such a large city to exist. Sure, they're good enough for personal transport -but that isn't sufficient for the city itself.

A city that large needs at least these three things to stay unified:

High-Efficiency Long-Range Transportation for Bulk Goods
Instant or Near-Instant Communications (maximum of one day's delay)
Rapid Transportation for at Least a Few People


Items #2 and #3 are easy with magic.

For #2, I'm imagining that in each city district would have an Acropolis, wherein dwells at least one Oracle: a priestess whose only duty is to receive messages over distance. It wouldn't be a pretty job; spending all day in an oracular trance and ranting words which aren't your own (while several scribes stand by to jot them down) can't possibly be good for one's health; however the City wouldn't be able to live without them. Messages to be sent would be transcribed by acolytes onto sacred parchments, which are then burnt on a pyre by the high priest, who recites a prayer that it might reach its intended destination.

For #3, perhaps there would be a counterpart to the Acropolis, a Necropolis. The priests here would use arcane magic instead of divine. (Who says priests have to be Clerics instead of Wizards? :smalltongue:) The Necropolis would be a much less popular place than the Acropolis, with few visiting other than for funerals. But inside the catacombs lies a gateway... To Hades, a place where distance is meaningless. In desperate times, the necromancers (NOT the kind that makes zombies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necromancy)) will ward men whom are sorely needed elsewhere, and summon for them a guide -one whom will will lead them to their destination, at the price of just 2cp per capita. :smallwink:


However, finding a solution for #1 that doesn't scream "Magitek" isn't so simple a matter. The best thing I can think of is a system of canals, where barges are drawn along by teams of ogres (or just donkeys) walking along the banks. (Of course, that leaves the question of how such canals were built, but the beautiful thing about Fantasy is that you can honestly say "A Wizard did it".) :smallbiggrin:



Oh, and I think I've come up with a good name for this setting.
What do you think of "Omnipolis"? (Or maybe "Omniopolis"...)



EDIT:
For answering #2, you might also want to consider semaphore towers. They'd certainly fit in what you want, from what I can tell at least.

sktarq
2013-04-11, 06:46 PM
Ah, well it was supposed to be a bit over-the-top; but I guess I've misjudged the theme of your setting.

snip
t.

Actually for #1 and #3 that's why I recommended a weblike city. If part of the city is always relatively nearby then most bulk good wouldn't need to move quickly. As long as they were non perishable time would not matter-only consistency of deliveries. And most perishable ones would not need to be moved very far. That said the movement of goods would probably be one of the largest and most visible things of any such city. and while I don't think Extreme efficiency is as necessary it would be desirable when one could get it. Canals make allot of sense. Frankly if a high magic setting is what you want wouldn't golems or the undead be better haulers than ogres or donkeys?
Also with a non centered city most people would never really explore anything but their own little region of the city. Everything they would want would be there. Thus few people would need to traverse the whole city - to most the distance and speeds necessary wouldn't need anything more than a horse or ox cart. Since it is fantasy all the high speed teleports, pegasi etc would I'm assuming be available but I don't really think they are necessary.
Also #2 and #3 assume or at least heavily favor a top down approach. What if most of the city governance commerce etc was distributed? If outside forces are taken as minimal (since this city is the world) then slow communication and transport wouldn't be a big an issue. Things roll on as they have always done. The pace of a Horse couriers, carrier pigeons (or ravens or dragonettes) etc would probably be fast enough. There doesn't seem much that would need an immediate city wide response. Local administrators would probably be able to handle most local issues.

ddude987
2013-04-11, 06:52 PM
Ah, well it was supposed to be a bit over-the-top; but I guess I've misjudged the theme of your setting.
snip

Wow...just...wow.
What you posted is absolutely amazing! I love it. I still want my raised highway system to work... but just wow. That is awesome. So I am imagining now the city snaking all around the continent with tons of canal like systems, like veins, running through the city. Strong races like orcs would make a living drawing barges through these canals.
The necropolis is a nice touch, though it would of course be a complete secret and an emergency way to travel from one area of the city to the other.
In terms of information being sent, a mundane messenger system would probably exist. Not sure if that is to advanced for this setting. The key to making the flavor of what I want fit is I don't want the game to look like a fantasy mmorpg nor do I want to introduce mechanical devices or any sort of steampunk.
Back to messages... The oracle system would be good for say church restricted use. I haven't posted the heirarchy of the church I think but something I am thinking maybe the church should be a complete political sham. Anyways, the leaders of the church would have magic devices or an oracle or what have you that can send messages to their lowers, and the lowers would have the same thing. However, only the top ranking officials would know that burning and praying your message to be sent is really a shame and the message is sent through purely arcane means. Just a thought.

Lastly, Omnipolis sounds pretty cool. I might tweak how it sounds, but I like the meaning and flavor it has. Thanks for that suggestion.


Actually for #1 and #3 that's why I recommended a weblike city. If part of the city is always relatively nearby then most bulk good wouldn't need to move quickly. As long as they were non perishable time would not matter-only consistency of deliveries. And most perishable ones would not need to be moved very far. That said the movement of goods would probably be one of the largest and most visible things of any such city. and while I don't think Extreme efficiency is as necessary it would be desirable when one could get it. Canals make allot of sense. Frankly if a high magic setting is what you want wouldn't golems or the undead be better haulers than ogres or donkeys?
Also with a non centered city most people would never really explore anything but their own little region of the city. Everything they would want would be there. Thus few people would need to traverse the whole city - to most the distance and speeds necessary wouldn't need anything more than a horse or ox cart. Since it is fantasy all the high speed teleports, pegasi etc would I'm assuming be available but I don't really think they are necessary.
Also #2 and #3 assume or at least heavily favor a top down approach. What if most of the city governance commerce etc was distributed? If outside forces are taken as minimal (since this city is the world) then slow communication and transport wouldn't be a big an issue. Things roll on as they have always done. The pace of a Horse couriers, carrier pigeons (or ravens or dragonettes) etc would probably be fast enough. There doesn't seem much that would need an immediate city wide response. Local administrators would probably be able to handle most local issues.

You pose a good point. Because outside influence is minimal, just roving bands of exiles or monstrous races that do not wish to conform, information would not need to travel to quickly. That being said, I was thinking while it is a high magic setting, things like instant teleportation would not be needed and as such the secrets of this arcane magic may have been lost. Ordinary people, including the PCs, would not necessarily just be able to know a teleport spell.
The canals and major highways would mainly be used by people that need to travel and sell their goods. I am thinking perhaps farmlands would be allocated on a per area basis and minor lords would own/control each area and be responsible for ensuring the food gets to market and for collection the areas taxes to be delivered to the church.
Also the idea of the towers that you light on fire to send signals is a good idea. I might put it in. Just depends where it needs to fit.

Geordnet
2013-04-11, 09:18 PM
Wow...just...wow.
What you posted is absolutely amazing! I love it.
Why, thank you. :smallredface:


I still want my raised highway system to work...
And it still does! It works perfectly for the purpose for which highways were developed in the real world: mobilizing large amounts of traffic on short notice. That's different enough from what Canals can do for the two to coexist (though there'd still be some competition between the two systems).

However, this does bring something to mind... One particular bit of the history sktarq outlined still bugs me:

Eventually the distance between the towns and villages lining the broadways became negligible in for much of its length.
For a horse-drawn carriage, no distance less than a few miles is really "negligible". Even a straight-line path between cities would be significantly more than that.

However... What if the roads were effectively shorter than that? If they were enchanted somehow to make travel along them faster than it technically should be?

Say alchemists have long known that the stone Cinnabar contains the essence of quicksilver. For ages it has been a crucial ingredient for potions and substances related to speed. But it is only in the last millennium that its properties have been applied to road-building.

The first attempt was a road made of solid cinnabar. This worked, but it was quickly abandoned as too expensive. Instead, a system where glyphs of purest cinnabar were precisely carved and protected by magically-strengthened glass, which were then embedded in the roadway.

Later developments introduced similar glyphs made of lapis lazuli and jade, the former serving to bend space and time, the later keeping the horses from tiring out. The most advanced of modern roads are intricate structures featuring painstakingly precise interlocking pieces of many different precious stones and metals; it is said that on the very best of these a good horse can gallop a mile a minute! (No such high-quality road long enough -or free of traffic enough- exists to test this claim, though.)

However, most roads just use the three main glyphs of Cinnabar, Lapis, and Jade. A completely mundane carriage with two healthy but ordinary horses can regularly make 360 miles a day, in two 6-hour shifts. That's an effective speed of 30 miles an hour, comparable to early automobiles!

They still would be limited in how much they can haul, though, so the canals beat them for bulk freight.


The necropolis is a nice touch, though it would of course be a complete secret and an emergency way to travel from one area of the city to the other.
Sure, and a harrowing way to travel at that. You don't want to forget to bring coins for the ferryman. :smallbiggrin:

Also, if you're willing to forgo the usual D&D cosmology and resurrection system, there's the potential for an adventure into the abyss to retrieve the soul of a fallen party member.



In terms of information being sent, a mundane messenger system would probably exist. Not sure if that is to advanced for this setting.
Nah, it isn't too advanced. All it takes is large-scale organization, but since this is supposed to be all one city you've already got that.


The key to making the flavor of what I want fit is I don't want the game to look like a fantasy mmorpg nor do I want to introduce mechanical devices or any sort of steampunk.
I understand not wanting steampunk, but you'll have to clarify what you mean by "look like a fantasy mmorpg". Do you mean like WoW?

Also, I wouldn't be so strict on mechanical devices. You'd be pretty surprised at what kinds of devices the Greeks and Romans made. Just one guy, Heron of Alexandria, invented a holy water vending machine, temple doors that automatically opened whenever a burnt offering was made, and the world's first steam engine.



You pose a good point. Because outside influence is minimal, just roving bands of exiles or monstrous races that do not wish to conform, information would not need to travel to quickly.
If information can't travel quickly, you aren't looking at a single city anymore. You're looking at a group of interdependent, but distinct and separate cities.

If the supreme high council makes a decision, it needs to be in the papers the next morning. (A moveable type printing press isn't too advanced, is it?) If a revolt starts somewhere, news must reach the top brass within 6 hours.

Otherwise, the lack of an external threat to band together against will let infighting run amok, and tear the city apart from the inside.


I am thinking perhaps farmlands would be allocated on a per area basis and minor lords would own/control each area and be responsible for ensuring the food gets to market and for collection the areas taxes to be delivered to the church.
Did you know that what you describe sounds a lot like the Feudal system? :smallbiggrin:

Actually, having the city's economy be primarily Feudalistic instead of Capitalistic would be unique and interesting, especially since it would still stand up to scrutiny.



Also the idea of the towers that you light on fire to send signals is a good idea. I might put it in. Just depends where it needs to fit.
Not just lighting fires, using systems of shutters and semaphore flags to convey complex messages rapidly. :smallamused:
(Ever read Terry Pratchett's Going Postal?)

ddude987
2013-04-11, 11:25 PM
However, this does bring something to mind... One particular bit of the history sktarq outlined still bugs me:

For a horse-drawn carriage, no distance less than a few miles is really "negligible". Even a straight-line path between cities would be significantly more than that.

However... What if the roads were effectively shorter than that? If they were enchanted somehow to make travel along them faster than it technically should be?

Say alchemists have long known that the stone Cinnabar contains the essence of quicksilver. For ages it has been a crucial ingredient for potions and substances related to speed. But it is only in the last millennium that its properties have been applied to road-building.

The first attempt was a road made of solid cinnabar. This worked, but it was quickly abandoned as too expensive. Instead, a system where glyphs of purest cinnabar were precisely carved and protected by magically-strengthened glass, which were then embedded in the roadway.

Later developments introduced similar glyphs made of lapis lazuli and jade, the former serving to bend space and time, the later keeping the horses from tiring out. The most advanced of modern roads are intricate structures featuring painstakingly precise interlocking pieces of many different precious stones and metals; it is said that on the very best of these a good horse can gallop a mile a minute! (No such high-quality road long enough -or free of traffic enough- exists to test this claim, though.)

However, most roads just use the three main glyphs of Cinnabar, Lapis, and Jade. A completely mundane carriage with two healthy but ordinary horses can regularly make 360 miles a day, in two 6-hour shifts. That's an effective speed of 30 miles an hour, comparable to early automobiles!

They still would be limited in how much they can haul, though, so the canals beat them for bulk freight.

Well I like the idea. My biggest concern is I got a bit of feedback from the players, they said they did not want the game to turn into an mmorpg, and one said he would not play if it turned into the tippyverse. I just don't want to make the game seem like everything is perfect with no effort. Most of the people that had the above opinion said they would rather play a sci-fi game if convenience was handed to them on a silver platter. That isn't to say the idea is bad, just it should not be so accessible and that magic should not be blown out of proportion. Magic IS expensive, and high level casters are a rarity so I am just trying to be wary of going overboard.



Sure, and a harrowing way to travel at that. You don't want to forget to bring coins for the ferryman. :smallbiggrin:

Also, if you're willing to forgo the usual D&D cosmology and resurrection system, there's the potential for an adventure into the abyss to retrieve the soul of a fallen party member.


Those sounds like great ideas. I already have custom gods, that need a lot f work, in place. However, cosmology is on the bottom of my list for the moment.



I understand not wanting steampunk, but you'll have to clarify what you mean by "look like a fantasy mmorpg". Do you mean like WoW?

Yes, that is what I mean. Games like WoW and Diablo and other fantasy games hand you things on a silver platter. You can travel where ever you want very easily, everything you could want is provided for you, and magic is so abundant even everyday people just have easy access to it.



Also, I wouldn't be so strict on mechanical devices. You'd be pretty surprised at what kinds of devices the Greeks and Romans made. Just one guy, Heron of Alexandria, invented a holy water vending machine, temple doors that automatically opened whenever a burnt offering was made, and the world's first steam engine.

Wow, that is awesome! While they happened, vending machines and steam engines are a no go, though the temple doors gives me some great ideas.



If information can't travel quickly, you aren't looking at a single city anymore. You're looking at a group of interdependent, but distinct and separate cities.

If the supreme high council makes a decision, it needs to be in the papers the next morning. (A moveable type printing press isn't too advanced, is it?) If a revolt starts somewhere, news must reach the top brass within 6 hours.

Rather than papers, the classic hired people who go around the city yelling the current news seem more appropriate, though I don't know if even those are in place.



Did you know that what you describe sounds a lot like the Feudal system? :smallbiggrin:

Actually, having the city's economy be primarily Feudalistic instead of Capitalistic would be unique and interesting, especially since it would still stand up to scrutiny.

I like that. It seems like it would work. The senate decides laws which are given to the lords who must notify his people and enforce them. It works well, seems to stand up to any sort of scrutiny, and is unique. Of course, this will not be the classic feudal system where the peasants are dirt poor and all are farmers, they will be normal city dwellers. Lords caring for them just makes the massive population a lot more manageable.

JusticeZero
2013-04-11, 11:58 PM
My worry here is that every added layer of magitech and every setting and world quirk is making the world more "clever", which as i've said many a time, is an attribute that nobody possesses anywhere near as much of as they think they can handle. It is my number one rule, and the one that has caused me to crash embarrassingly and burn more times than anything else. I'm not that clever, nobody is.

The chances that you will have missed some trivial and silly detail that one of your players will pick up on and totally blow your setting up (either by discovering a profound underlying absurdity, or by discovering a ridiculously destructive hack) explodes in a geometric way with every chunk of cleverness that you add. An exotic world setting like a city planet in a fantasy setting will take a lot of layers of clever to explain, and it will be the worst kind - the kind that has lots of power and NPCs tied to it.

As someone who is just starting out, I recommend minimizing the cleverness as much as you can. If you want to do stuff in a city, do stuff in a city, but a more typical city that doesn't require you to posit a whole bunch of very complex things. Be conservative with your exotic wonders, and everyone will appreciate them more for it.

the_david
2013-04-12, 12:15 AM
It is a good thing the game is taking place in a world with magic then.

Oh, so it's a magical empty city the size of a continent.

Geordnet
2013-04-12, 01:52 AM
Well I like the idea. My biggest concern is I got a bit of feedback from the players, they said they did not want the game to turn into an mmorpg, and one said he would not play if it turned into the tippyverse. I just don't want to make the game seem like everything is perfect with no effort. Most of the people that had the above opinion said they would rather play a sci-fi game if convenience was handed to them on a silver platter. That isn't to say the idea is bad, just it should not be so accessible and that magic should not be blown out of proportion. Magic IS expensive, and high level casters are a rarity so I am just trying to be wary of going overboard.

[...]

Yes, that is what I mean. Games like WoW and Diablo and other fantasy games hand you things on a silver platter. You can travel where ever you want very easily, everything you could want is provided for you, and magic is so abundant even everyday people just have easy access to it.
Well, this certainly isn't putting anything on a silver platter. Sure, it cuts down travel time a lot, but that fortnight's journey will still take a week.

I know you're worried about having magic be too common, but I don't think it'll be a problem if you make this the one and only exception to the rule.

Say, any good stonecarver knows the shape of the sigils used in the roads, and it's the shape that carries the magic -not some enchantment added by a wizard. In fact, you could go so far as to say that this is the reason the roads were able to vastly outcompete all other means of transportation at the time, before the city was unified.

Of course more research has been done on making similar sigils for other purposes, but none have had anything near the success of the roads.



Rather than papers, the classic hired people who go around the city yelling the current news seem more appropriate, though I don't know if even those are in place.
Town criers? I'm sure there'd be one on every market square.

For a more organized news source, however, you might want to look at how Roman Fora (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forum_%28Roman%29) operated. In fact, a Forum is probably the first place the PCs should go when looking for work...



I like that. It seems like it would work. The senate decides laws which are given to the lords who must notify his people and enforce them. It works well, seems to stand up to any sort of scrutiny, and is unique. Of course, this will not be the classic feudal system where the peasants are dirt poor and all are farmers, they will be normal city dwellers. Lords caring for them just makes the massive population a lot more manageable.
It also leaves more room for some corruption to start seeping in, so that there's some interesting conflict for the players to resolve.



My worry here is that every added layer of magitech and every setting and world quirk is making the world more "clever", which as i've said many a time, is an attribute that nobody possesses anywhere near as much of as they think they can handle. It is my number one rule, and the one that has caused me to crash embarrassingly and burn more times than anything else. I'm not that clever, nobody is.
Oh, don't worry, so far the "cleverness" has been in finding the most mundane solutions possible. :smalltongue:

And there certainly hasn't been anything that could qualify as "magitech" that hasn't been shot down already.

ddude987
2013-04-12, 09:38 AM
And there certainly hasn't been anything that could qualify as "magitech" that hasn't been shot down already.

True to that. Could somebody define "magitech"? My google-fu is failing as per usual.

JusticeZero
2013-04-12, 10:40 AM
Magic (miraculous and arbitrary effects) used as technology (external/itemized, widespread, mass produced, usable by anyone).

ddude987
2013-04-12, 12:11 PM
Magic (miraculous and arbitrary effects) used as technology (external/itemized, widespread, mass produced, usable by anyone).

Alright. Thanks for that. While the setting and city is quite magical I don't want magic to be extremely prevalent. The highway system is on large scale use of magic. Leaving it at that seems like a good idea. If even things like everyday items became commonlu magical then magic wouldn't be well... Impressive. Things like pots that wash themselves or pens that never run out of ink or ever burning lamps on every street make magic lose its appeal. I'll try to stay away from a lot of magitech. Thanks

edit: Added motos for the guilds. They are pretty bad and need work. A few just popped into my head so I decided to just write one for all of them real quick.

Geordnet
2013-04-12, 02:12 PM
Alright. Thanks for that. While the setting and city is quite magical I don't want magic to be extremely prevalent. The highway system is on large scale use of magic. Leaving it at that seems like a good idea. If even things like everyday items became commonlu magical then magic wouldn't be well... Impressive. Things like pots that wash themselves or pens that never run out of ink or ever burning lamps on every street make magic lose its appeal. I'll try to stay away from a lot of magitech. Thanks
Hm... I think I know what you want, but I'm not sure whether to call it "High Magic" or "Low Magic".

I think what you want is to have a high level of "background magic", but not so high that it's immediately obvious. Just enough to bend the rules enough so that the City could actually work.

The first trick is, I think, is that it all needs to be subtle. Take the enchanted roads for instance: you wouln't even need to mention that they're magical unless a player notices that their five-day journey should have taken ten days for a real-life carraige to travel. Or if somone asks how enough food would be grown, or preserved long enough to make it to market, or where the water for all the aqueducts and canals comes from. You needn't ever point these things out yourself, but it's good to have answers ready when someone else does.

The second trick would to make sure that all the solutions involve work, primarily by people who aren't magic-users. That way it doesn't sound like you're giving out stuff for free. For example, for the roads someone had to mine the Cinnabar (menial labor), then someone had to carve it (skilled labor), and someone had to build the rest of the road (more menial labor). Then there's the jobs of inspection and maintanence...

The key word in all of this is labor. If you make it absolutely clear that the city runs on the toil of its inhabitants, then it doesn't matter if their blood, sweat and tears are just fancy spell components. They're still as mandatory and essential as ever.

For example, here are some possible explanations for the questions I posed earlier:


For the food, Plant Growth helps, but I don't think it's enough. (Since I'd expect that at least 20-30% of civilized land to be "urban" if it's to be considered all one city.) So, perhaps somewhere in this world there exists a place where pure life force rises from the bowels of the earth. A volcano of sacred fire, which regularly spews out a pure white ash and rich brown mud.

These are processed (manually) into fertilizer, which is shipped (by canal) to farms the world over. Thus enriched, it is possible to have a harvest a every month in a good year! (Of course, they need lots of farm hands to maintain this breakneck pace.)

The crops themselves are of unnatural strains, which can only grow in the special fertilizer being used. They were first created by a druid-wizard back when the City was in its infancy. Food made from these crops takes much longer to spoil than their "organic" cousins (which are still grown in spots, for snobby elves etc). (Of course, they'll still rot in time.)

Combine this with Dwarf Fortress-style Fungaculture based on city sewage, as well as some extensive aquaculture, and that should solve any food-based issues. (Including the Thermodynamics problems, since we're now working with an open system.)


For the water, perhaps this world had many natural springs and and rivers before the City was built. Shrines were built at many of these springs, with the prayers of hermits warding off the possibility of a dry spell.

Eventually this tradition was supplanted by permanent enchantments on the springs, which gush water at much faster rates than before -enough to keep the canals filled year-round.

But even if the water's free, maintaining the canals is a constant battle against erosion that employs millions of workers each year.

As for why this hasn't flooded the world yet, you could just add a "drain" of some sort, such as the classic "world's edge waterfall".


Hm... Actually, these answers make your setting a lot more plausible.

The Three Laws of Thermodynamics are usually the biggest thorns in the side of the whole "planet-city" concept. But that's because a planet-city is usually a closed system. The answers outlined above make it clear that your setting is an open system, thus freeing it from any broad Thermodynamics concerns.

EDIT:
Heck, if these sources are indefinite you've built a universe that's immune to heat death, which makes the tone that much lighter.

EDIT2:
Whether they're infinite or not, anything that threatens to distrupt these supplies would be a serious threat to the city, and certanly adventure-worthy material. (It would be better to start with a small-scale, local disruption first, though; unless the PCs are epic-leveled.)

sktarq
2013-04-12, 02:32 PM
However, this does bring something to mind... One particular bit of the history sktarq outlined still bugs me:

For a horse-drawn carriage, no distance less than a few miles is really "negligible". Even a straight-line path between cities would be significantly more than that.

If information can't travel quickly, you aren't looking at a single city anymore. You're looking at a group of interdependent, but distinct and separate cities.

If the supreme high council makes a decision, it needs to be in the papers the next morning. (A moveable type printing press isn't too advanced, is it?) If a revolt starts somewhere, news must reach the top brass within 6 hours.

Otherwise, the lack of an external threat to band together against will let infighting run amok, and tear the city apart from the inside.


As for the horse drawn carriages. Firstly most people would'nt need to go very far at all. if the transport system and city web structure are nearly perfectly overlaps then the city and everything it has to offer are always within the few miles that the horse drawn cart could use. If you take any one point within the city draw a 5 mile radius around it you'd basically have a small city with all the benifits that entails. Most people would never need to go farther than that. Most people would not need to travel between "cities" because they basically wouldn't exist anymore the city itself would be everywhere. The old seperate "cities" would just be thick points in the overal structure of a web city that spans the globe. And as for longer distance animal based trade routes I based the idea on the Silk road, the Susa Lydia Highway of the Achameaids, and the Camel routes of the Mali Empire. They worked for very long times at non negligible distances.

And the speed of information doesn't have to be instant by any means. I was thinking lower tech than typeprint. Even if the speed of info was as fast a carrier pidgeon (which can be bloody fast) that would be more than enough. If the world is small it would still take only a couple weeks.
It would all be about a distributed comand and control and a minimum of hierarchery in the system. The less fuedal the better. Without outside threats etc The very idea of group identity would change. The concept of NOT being part of the city probably would not even enter people's head let alone have a word in the common tongue.

And if a revolt starts somewhere it would up to the surrounding districts to deal with it. By the time the top brass could even do anything about it it would probably be over. It is not like they would be able to do much. The surroundsing districts would almost certainly be able to communicate and plan fast enough to coordinate a responce.

and as for infighting I figured that is where the adventures come from.

ddude987
2013-04-12, 02:45 PM
As for the horse drawn carriages. Firstly most people would'nt need to go very far at all. if the transport system and city web structure are nearly perfectly overlaps then the city and everything it has to offer are always within the few miles that the horse drawn cart could use. If you take any one point within the city draw a 5 mile radius around it you'd basically have a small city with all the benifits that entails. Most people would never need to go farther than that. Most people would not need to travel between "cities" because they basically wouldn't exist anymore the city itself would be everywhere. The old seperate "cities" would just be thick points in the overal structure of a web city that spans the globe. And as for longer distance animal based trade routes I based the idea on the Silk road, the Susa Lydia Highway of the Achameaids, and the Camel routes of the Mali Empire. They worked for very long times at non negligible distances.

And the speed of information doesn't have to be instant by any means. I was thinking lower tech than typeprint. Even if the speed of info was as fast a carrier pidgeon (which can be bloody fast) that would be more than enough. If the world is small it would still take only a couple weeks.
It would all be about a distributed comand and control and a minimum of hierarchery in the system. The less fuedal the better. Without outside threats etc The very idea of group identity would change. The concept of NOT being part of the city probably would not even enter people's head let alone have a word in the common tongue.

And if a revolt starts somewhere it would up to the surrounding districts to deal with it. By the time the top brass could even do anything about it it would probably be over. It is not like they would be able to do much. The surrounding districts would almost certainly be able to communicate and plan fast enough to coordinate a response.

and as for infighting I figured that is where the adventures come from.

I like what you are saying. I think that ravens/pigeons trained to carry messages around the city would be effective enough. However, I like the sort of pseudo-feudal system I had in mind. There are districts, much like today's world, but instead of elected mayors, the head of a district is born into the ruling wealthy family. That isn't to say people living in the districts cannot be wealthy or important. The whole purpose of the lord of a district would be to make ensuring people get adiquite resources, notification of law changes, and tax collection would be a lot more manageable. Of course this also allows for more corruption, tax skimming, and jealously between big families.

JusticeZero
2013-04-12, 06:34 PM
Regarding food: You can, assuming good enough architecture, get a decent amount of food from wall (window) and roof gardens, but adding livestock to the mix will blow out your food needs. For each calorie of meat, you need 27 calories of vegetable. As such, food shortages launch the price of meat into the stratosphere.

ddude987
2013-04-12, 08:51 PM
Regarding food: You can, assuming good enough architecture, get a decent amount of food from wall (window) and roof gardens, but adding livestock to the mix will blow out your food needs. For each calorie of meat, you need 27 calories of vegetable. As such, food shortages launch the price of meat into the stratosphere.

Well I think player's, even under some scrutiny, will probably mark the absence of livestock stranger than the presence of such.

Geordnet
2013-04-12, 09:30 PM
You know, one thing that I've been wondering is what everyone's been doing for the past few hundred years. I mean, if it's a golden age that would imply that everyone has everyone has employment.

I think that the best answer is simple: they've been building. Building monuments, building new roads, building massive structures. Keep the projects rolling, and you keep everyone content and busy.

JusticeZero
2013-04-13, 06:45 PM
Just multiply the cost of meat based rations/inn food 10-20X the cost of the alternative.

ddude987
2013-04-14, 01:51 PM
You know, one thing that I've been wondering is what everyone's been doing for the past few hundred years. I mean, if it's a golden age that would imply that everyone has everyone has employment.

I think that the best answer is simple: they've been building. Building monuments, building new roads, building massive structures. Keep the projects rolling, and you keep everyone content and busy.

Hmm so the city is expanding eh? Seems like a good idea to me. I've been really busy over the weekend so no new updates. Sorry about that. I like the idea of everyone building and expanding. New areas are being cultivated, monuments to great leaders, giant temples to gods, massive and impressive structures that future generations one day will look up at and wonder "How did they do that 400 years ago?"

Geordnet
2013-04-14, 04:11 PM
Hmm so the city is expanding eh? Seems like a good idea to me. I've been really busy over the weekend so no new updates. Sorry about that. I like the idea of everyone building and expanding. New areas are being cultivated, monuments to great leaders, giant temples to gods, massive and impressive structures that future generations one day will look up at and wonder "How did they do that 400 years ago?"
Probably not expanding, but upgrading. Renovating and building over old buildings, with newer, bigger, better ones. They'd probably build literally on top of (and below) old buildings as well.

I remember seeing something about an ancient Roman-era city that had entire roads built on top of each other, but forgot the name... :smallfrown:
EDIT: Apparently there's plenty more options (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underground_city) to choose from, though.


Anyways, there can't be much room for expansion if the city is going to remain consolidated. Otherwise, migration/colonization would spread people out just like it did in the real world.

Malachi Lemont
2013-04-14, 07:23 PM
This world sounds really cool! I'm not sure if this has already been mentioned, but here's my input:

How about cities and farms on top of each other? You were discussing how a planet can be 100% urban and still have room for agriculture: why not have skyscrapers with greenhouse gardens at the top where all the food is grown? All the floors underneath could be for housing and industry, getting less and less glamorous as you get farther away from the sunlight and closer to the planet's surface. Lots of skybridges required, and, of course, flying cars.

Probably not a very practical idea, but for an admittedly over-the-top world, why not?

Geordnet
2013-04-14, 08:23 PM
It isn't 100% urban, that wouldn't work. :smalltongue:

This world is just 100% developed. That includes parks and farms, as well as buildings.


EDIT: (Just noticed this.)

Welcome to Minöst <meen-ohst; "one city" - LOTR elven>
Hm, the name rolls off the tongue nicely, but is that from Quenya or Sindarin? :smallamused:

ddude987
2013-04-15, 07:29 PM
EDIT: (Just noticed this.)

Hm, the name rolls off the tongue nicely, but is that from Quenya or Sindarin? :smallamused:

Actually its from a google search :smallwink:

edit: Added an entire section on farming. I hope I covered everything for farming. Critiques and ideas on the farming section are appreciated as I think I am still missing some things.


This world sounds really cool!
Why thank you, I'm flattered. :smallredface:

Xervous
2013-04-16, 07:44 PM
just from how it sounds, Minas Tirith has a very similar pronunciation when you listen to actors in the movies. Could be a coincidence, or not.

Geordnet
2013-04-16, 08:54 PM
Seeing as it's a name derived from the same or a similar language, I'd reckon that it isn't a coincidence. :smalltongue:

ddude987
2013-04-16, 10:43 PM
As stated above me, they are from the same language... or close I would think. Also "min" means one which I would think is a popular root for city names.

Geordnet
2013-04-16, 10:49 PM
"Minas" means "Tower", where "Minas Tirith" means "Tower of the Guard".

"Minas Morgul" would be "Tower of Darkness" (or something of the like), and it was formerly known as "Minas Ithil", "Tower of the Moon". In those days Minas Tirith had a different name too; I forget what it was, but I'm pretty sure it meant "Tower of the Sun".

ddude987
2013-04-17, 08:48 PM
I am starting to come up with ideas for the mechanics of the world, or rather how to flavor the mechanics. I will also be reflavoring some classes and re balancing them. Hopefully all the martial classes will have something to do in combat... or be more effective in combat *cough * Monk.
I am also preparing for slowly going through each section and revising it so each characteristic of the city is better written and more flavorful.

Still need to come up with more depth for the parties that run the senate.

Geordnet
2013-04-18, 09:48 AM
Just noticed this: (Emphasis mine)


Magical runes decorate parts of the highway, created from an incredibly rare and magical substance known as quicksilver, allow horses to travel at speeds up to a mile an hour.
That's actually slow for a horse. :smalltongue:

A good horse trots at 5-8 miles an hour, and can reach 30-40 mph in a full gallop. (The best horses can go even faster.)

ddude987
2013-04-18, 06:53 PM
Just noticed this: (Emphasis mine)


That's actually slow for a horse. :smalltongue:

A good horse trots at 5-8 miles an hour, and can reach 30-40 mph in a full gallop. (The best horses can go even faster.)

Even while pulling carts? Damn that is faster than I thought.

Geordnet
2013-04-18, 07:25 PM
Even while pulling carts? Damn that is faster than I thought.
Well they can't gallop while pulling carts, and they usually pace themselves with walking breaks between trots, but yeah it ain't a snail's pace. :smalltongue:

Really, though, 1mph is slow for anything. An average human walking pace is ~3mph. The real problem is that you're talking about a distance of hundreds of miles between sections of the city; it's not really one unified city if you can't reach the next hub in a day or two.

ddude987
2013-05-07, 12:20 PM
Updated a lot of what is written thus far. Most of the guilds got an update and the city structures got an update. Also fixed the horse thing. I settled on the horses being able to move at double speed under load.

ddude987
2013-05-24, 09:25 PM
List of game changes added. List will continue to be expanded/edited.
Unfortunately my summer is busier than I had hoped. I should start revising the Minost content within a week.

edit: Be sure to check out my fighter fix!

JusticeZero
2013-05-25, 01:25 AM
Even while pulling carts? Damn that is faster than I thought.
yeah, people who drive everywhere have a seriously messed up sense of scale and speed as a rule. A person can average 2-3 MPH walking, and a car in a city only averages about 10-15 MPH or so, depending on traffic, which is how cars manage to consistently lose to bicyclists and marathon runners in urban races. Car drivers dramatically misjudge their speed on account of said speed being very erratic, and then they scale their world based on that assumption, resulting in imagining that the world is much bigger than it really is.

ddude987
2013-09-18, 11:36 AM
I finally have the time to work more on my campaign setting :smallbiggrin:

I am reworking the government structure into a monarch by birth. The basic structure will be each "sector" of the city will have a mayor/lord/etc and the entire city will have a monarch by birth. These people will form a council, not unlike a CEO and a board of directors.
Also reworked the city guard to not just be religious zealots. I am still thinking about what to do with the religion itself. I'll be rewriting most of the guilds and political stuff, but I am really happy with the structures in the city as well as the general environment and the methods of obtaining food. Thank you to all of you forum-goers who helped me develop what I have so far.
Also considering making my setting E8. That seems like a generally good power level cap for a city, less players or nps could just obliterate something unopposed which seems to chaotic.

Update: Wrote a big history of the city as well as rewrote the guilds, structures, and farming. Also redid the layout of the OP for finished, or near finished, stuff to be out in the open. Thank you and I hope you all enjoy and PEACH.