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View Full Version : Alas, Shapesand!



artofregicide
2013-04-10, 01:07 PM
This is not a question of: Should Shapesand exist or, not? Instead, I've failed to find any fixes on the matter. To say the least, shapesand is overpowered, and poorly defined. At least in my understanding.

I've created a rather... poor fix: If you don't mind either giving me advice on improving my rough guide, or linking me to an actual FIX, that'd be awesome.

I will preface by saying that the checks are really high, and I likely need something to bring them down. Not sure what, exactly... other than arbitrarily making them lower. I'd rather tie it to skill checks or weapon familiarity or something of the like.

Without a Further Ado: Shapesand Jerry-Rig v1.0:
Okay, here's my Homebrew rules on Shapesand:

50gp a "jug", for 4lbs of shapesand (or 4 cubic feet). Multiple "jugs" can be kept in the same larger container.

Shaping: The Sand must be in physical contact with at least one hand, and remains in form until left 100 feet away. If two persons touch the same sand, they can contest control over it. Simply returning the shapesand to original form gives an advantage on this check, but the contest is only given if the opponent is aware that the shapesand has those properties (no automatic contest by touch).

Weight: Shapesand when turned into whatever item that it is supposed to be, more or less assumes that weight and density. It can weight no less than slightly more than wood, and no denser than heavy metal (say iron).

Shaping Shapesand takes time:
1 round for a simple object (a sphere, square, simple shape)
1 minute for a simple item (a club, a hook, a pole, etc)
+1 minute for every added element (an axe would be blade + handle, thus 2 minutes, lockpick set would be 2 small items, therefore 2 minutes, a flail would be a handle, chain, and mace,thus 3 minutes, etc...)
10 minutes for a complicated set of items (a set of armor, a chain made of links, a specific key)
1 hour for anything very complicated (persay, a basic shelter or a functioning machine part).

Also Size:
A fine sized item increases the time category by two steps (2 minutes minimum)
A tiny sized item increases the time category by one step (1 minute minimum)
Small and Medium Items have no change in time required.
A large sized item increases the time category by one step (1 minute minimum)
A huge sized item increases the time category by two steps (2 minutes minimum)
Anything above may take significantly longer.

This is in regards to creating an item suitable for a creature this particular size category (huge masterwork thief tools would take 4 minutes of shaping)

As for DC:

Primary DC is 15, add modifiers to find true DC. DC's stack.

Simple Shape: -5
No/Few details: -2
Fine details +2
Functioning tool +2
Functioning armor/weapon +5
Multiple parts +5
Masterwork version +10
Moving parts +10

Also, rolling a successful craft check can reduce the DC:

Craft check that beats the attempted item's DC gives you a +2. Beating the DC by each 10 gives you another +4.
(Example: DC 20 armor, roll for craft: blacksmith = 21, you gain +2 on your check)

For such items as armor or weapons, a craft check is required to make masterwork items.
For such items as magical items or a construct, other requirements (such as caster level, XP, spell components) may be required as well.

Erik Vale
2013-04-16, 09:28 PM
*Bump*
I would say it offers a fair bit more balance, however I would change the weapon DC based on the type of weapon [Say, +3 Simple, +5 Martial, +10 Exotic/complex] so it's nolonger something average joe can spend two minutes making into a handgun by taking 20. [Ok, it'll take longer with this fix as it breaks items down into pieces] However, given that you can now make it masterwork armour/weapons, can you enchant it like such, and what happens when it becomes unshaped?

artofregicide
2013-04-17, 03:38 PM
Really, I was hoping the HORRIFIC nature of my homebrew would prompt someone to link me to a good fix for shapesand. :smallamused:

Sadly, no such luck. Thanks for the bump :smallsmile:

Yeah, making a handgun out of shapesand is really not something I'm okay with. The the description more or less allows it.

I really don't have a very good idea for how to work space/density into it. After all, metal armor weighs a lot but doesn't have a lot of volume.

Also, the amount of time it takes to create things is just silly (standard action, basically?)

As for weapons, I was thinking that... proficiency would negate say a -4 penalty, and possibly weapon focus or crafting might give you a bonus to the check.

Also, even if you could create a firearm, shapesand can't create the gunpowder needed to fire it. You'd have to supply that yourself.

Grr... Why hasn't a person smarter than me made a fix? Too complicated or controversial?

Hanuman
2013-04-17, 04:04 PM
Shapesand could be reflavored to be a psionic item, reacting to either PP, telepathy, or reacting as a psycrystal.

Erik Vale
2013-04-19, 03:37 AM
Yeah, making a handgun out of shapesand is really not something I'm okay with. The the description more or less allows it.
Well, this was all I found when I used google fu a few days ago.
I really don't have a very good idea for how to work space/density into it. After all, metal armor weighs a lot but doesn't have a lot of volume.
I wouldn't touch that.
Also, the amount of time it takes to create things is just silly (standard action, basically?)
You need a good roll or a really high wis mod to do that. Normally it's more along the lines of take 20 and spend the next two minutes sitting there in the dungeon starring at a pile of sand.
As for weapons, I was thinking that... proficiency would negate say a -4 penalty, and possibly weapon focus or crafting might give you a bonus to the check.
I would say yes to crafting, but no to perficiency. Or perhaps have people only make fragile objects with shapesand unless they do have said craft skills due to their lack of practical knowledge.
Also, even if you could create a firearm, shapesand can't create the gunpowder needed to fire it. You'd have to supply that yourself.
Yes you can. Shapesand can take the form of any standerd non-magical item normally. So you can make poisons, alchemists fire, etc, etc.
However it may end up a waste of shapesand given that such things are one use. [I did however calculate it for a PF game, and have conned the GM into allowing it. I'm still waiting for him to unshape it for my gunslinger cohort.]

Grr... Why hasn't a person smarter than me made a fix? Too complicated or controversial?
Because people either ban it as it is effectively anything you want for way to cheap [yours probably still is, take a look to see if a level 1 could take 20 to make themselves full plate out of it.], or like it's brokenness just the way it is.


Responses in bold.


Shapesand could be reflavored to be a psionic item, reacting to either PP, telepathy, or reacting as a psycrystal.
Or alchemicially or magically enchanted sand infused with the chaos of limbo similar to Chaos flasks. Be a good way to bump up the price reasonably, but then you would have to set construction conditions.

Speaking of which, what is the craft DC of your shapesand, I can't see it listed.

Hanuman
2013-04-30, 12:09 PM
In that respect you could give shapesand an ego score.