Optimize my Erudite

[Renen]

Campaign: Eberron Race: Kalashtar Sex: Female
ECL 5
Languages: Common, Celestial, Elven, Quor, Draconic, ?, ?

STR 8
DEX 10
CON 12
INT 18
WIS 13
CHA 13

Class: Erudite Level: 5 Size: Medium HP: d4 BAB: +2 PP: 40
Feats (lvl 1,3,5, +2 bonus): Psycrystal Affinity, Mindsight (Does Kalashtar’s Mindlink qualify me), Earth Sense, Earth Power, Psicrystal Containment
Psycristal Feats: Hidden Talent (Matter agitation), Burrowing Power, Delay Power
AC: 10
Base Fortitude Save: 1+1Base Reflex Save: 1 Base Will Save: 4+1
Psionic Powers:
Level 1
1) Inertial Armor
2) Synchronicity
3) Vigor
4) Entangling Ectoplasm
5) Detect Psionics
6) Mind Thrust
7) Energy Ray
8) Missive
Level 2
9) Control Sound
10) Psychoportive Shelter
11) Share Pain
12) Feat Leach
Level 3
13) Time Hop
14) Dispel Psionic



Special Qualities: Immune to dream/nightmare, Mindlink 1/day,
Equipment (9000x4): Torc of Power Preservation

ACF Mantled Erudite
Fate Mantle (perhaps help me decide what powers can be added, as per that rule about adding powers to mantles up to total of 10)

Help me, Rubik, Psyren :smallsmile:

[DMVerdandi]

What do you want advise on?
Level progression?
Feat Progression?
Power Progression?

Or are you going to retrain completely?

What is the story behind the character?
Character development info?

[Psyren]

1) Kalashtar's Mindlink won't qualify you for Mindsight, but a dip in Psionic Mindbender (CArc 54) should do the trick without losing any ML. It should be pretty easy for you to qualify for.

2) Powers you can fill out the Fate Mantle with:
a) 3rd Level: Fate Link, Realized Potential.
b) 5th Level: Anticipatory Strike, Second Chance
c) 8th Level: Bend Reality, Hypercognition.

3) Make sure you get some Quori Shards, as that is the main reason (well, besides the bonus PP) to go Kalashtar. Power Link shards are the best, and Power Repository/Crystalline Eye shards are useful as well.

[Nettlekid]

Erudite 20. Done.
Sorry, StP Erudite 20. Overdone.
See if you can get access to Hyperconscious, a 3rd party sourcebook for Psionics written by the same guy who wrote the XPH, so it's pretty legit. It contains gems like Persistent Power to keep your buffs on all day long. With StP Erudite, you can copy things like the Wu-Jen Body Outside Body, retain your powers when you make clones (Powers are SLAs, so the clones keep them) and use the clones to fuel things like Psychic Reformation or Psychic Chirurgery, if you need to use those. Mental Pinnacle can refuel your power points, and Soul Crystal can be used to bypass UPD. But even without breaking it, Erudite is strong for all the reasons any caster is strong.

[Renen]

Thanks for the help Psyren. But should I spend my money on the shards or the torch? Because I do only have exactly 36k

[Psyren]

Another gem from Hyperconscious is Sequester Power, which lets you give up a number of powers known to gain additional PP/day. Since Erudites have unlimited powers known, you can sequester a bunch of junk powers from your repertoire to gain massive amounts of additional PP with a single feat.

The cap is 150% of your total PP - note that this includes bonus PP from your Int score by RAW. At level 20 with enough powers sequestered, you can end up with 200 extra PP or more from one feat.


Thanks for the help Psyren. But should I spend my money on the shards or the torch? Because I do only have exactly 36k

"Torch?" Do you mean Torque?

[Renen]

Yeh... I blame my phone's auto correct.
Looking up some spells from that book, they have some niiiice stuff. Like a much better version of deja vu,that lasts for rounds per lvl instead of 1 round

[DMVerdandi]

I agree with the STP Erudite suggestion.
Also, Persistent Power is also in The 3.0 Psionics handbook. Since it did not get a revision, by RAW, it is still legal and up for grabs.

As for the sequester power thing... Eh... Seems a little TOO much.

STP Erudite won't get kicked out of games if you don't bring T.O. to the table. One can function perfectly fine without infinite pp loops and even the mildest of cheese. Just grab some cool spells, a couple of cool powers, and be real low key about it. Humility, you know?

Yeah, there is no such thing as an obstacle to you, unless you make them yourself. And that is where the fun STARTS.

Best part about the erudite is you can be any kind of arcanist you please, at the drop of a hat. My suggestion is to always choose.

Wanna be a summoner? Summon.
Wanna be a diviner? divine
Wanna be an acidic elemental guy? Spew out more acid than a music festival.

But choose. Just have most of your powers keyed towards your theme, and you won't step on a single toe.

[Renen]

Actually, I'm going mantle, so I can try out a trick Rubik suggested (I think it was him). Where you make your powers into SU abilities.

[Nettlekid]

Hm, how does that work? Supernatural Transformation, using Magic mantle to make your Psionics count as SLAs? Because I think they already do, RAW.

[Renen]

I think only thing mantles to by themselves RAW is make magic and psionics 100% transparent.

[KillingAScarab]

I think only thing mantles to by themselves RAW is make magic and psionics 100% transparent.That is specific to the granted ability of the magic mantle found on page 70 of Complete Psionic. The purpose of mantles generally is to grant an ability and a list of powers to choose from when selecting powers known. The granted ability of the fate mantle you have chosen would allow the expenditure of psionic focus once per day to get a bonus equal to your class level (in this case erudite level) on a d20 roll.

You're also considered a psion/wilder if the powers the mantle adds to your list are available to multiple manifester classes, though that only really affects defensive precognition and offensive precognition with the fate mantle (and not much, since they're 1st level powers on both lists). Most of the powers for the fate mantle are exclusively seer, including the 9th level metafaculty, which an erudite would not otherwise be able to learn.

[olentu]

That is specific to the granted ability of the magic mantle found on page 70 of Complete Psionic.

If by specific to the magic mantle you mean the way that most campaigns already treat them, as specifically noted by the magic mantle.

[Spuddles]

If you're looking for action abuse, synchronicity is amazing. So is anticipatory strike, but synchronicity... wow. OP.

I'm a big fan of Psychic Reformation. And Quintessence. Combine with things that have a short duration to get things with a very long duration.

Spell to Power ACF is fantastic, which you can get along with mantle. You just have to trade out both your psicrystal and bonus feat.


"Torch?" Do you mean Torque?

did somebody say torch? (http://extreme-gamerz.org/diablo2/images/Inferno7.jpg)

[Renen]

I know about StP but I don't want to make my DM cry. So I want to go mantle. So am I correct in assuming the mantle would allow me to treat Psionics as SLA?

[Nettlekid]

Actually, I think the Magic mantle would let you treat Psionics as spells. I think they already count as SLA, technically.

[Renen]

Not if you are playing with Psionics Are Different.

[Renen]

Also, Psyren, I finally looked up mindbender... and isnt it a arcane PrC? How Would I qualify or even not lose ML when I take the 1st lvl.

[Nettlekid]

If you're playing with Psionics are Different, then using the Magic Mantle makes your powers count as spells. If a feat or effect comments on the use of a "spell," your power will fit the bill. If it talks about a spell-like ability, then your powers do not apply.

[Renen]

Hmmm... I seen lots of people here claim Supernatural Transformation can affect powers, making them SU.

[Nettlekid]

That's because they're playing with powers being SLAs, which I think is the default stance on them if you aren't using Psionics is Different, and RAW I think it's still technically what they are even if you are using Psionics is Different.

Let me break it down for you, because we've been doing this for a while now.
In a world where Psionics is it's own thing, Powers count as Powers and are thus not applicable for Supernatural Transformation. (This is arguable, as Powers may still officially count as SLAs. But probably not.)
In a world where Psionics isn't it's own thing, it counts as an SLA and Supernatural Transformation is applicable to it.
In a world where Psionics is it's own thing and you have the Magic Mantle, Powers count as Spells and so are not applicable for Supernatural Transformation.
In a world where Psionics isn't its own thing and you have the Magic Mantle, Powers still count as Spells (because that's basically what the Magic Mantle does regardless) and so are not applicable for Supernatural Transformation.

Since the Magic Mantle makes spells and powers act the same, effectively making powers into spells, Supernatural Transformation isn't going to work on your powers while you have it. It's debatable if it works when Psionics are an independent system, but it would work if they aren't. So those are your options. At this point it seems like it's more trouble than it's worth.

[Sith_Happens]

Not if you are playing with Psionics Are Different.

If you're playing with Psionics are Different, then you've already broken the game just by being a manifester.

[Renen]

If you're playing with Psionics are Different, then you've already broken the game just by being a manifester.

Well, the DM knows how to balance that.

And thanks for the explanation nettle.

Anyone has any more things to add? I can always use more help :-)

[Psyren]

Also, Psyren, I finally looked up mindbender... and isnt it a arcane PrC? How Would I qualify or even not lose ML when I take the 1st lvl.

There's a psionic adaptation - I gave you the page number specifically so so you could find it.

[Renen]

There's a psionic adaptation - I gave you the page number specifically so so you could find it.

Oh right... I feel VEEERY stupid now >_< how did I miss that part.
Well, I guess I wont be able to get SU powers, but atleast I can do other tricks still.
Any recommendations on which power to use to qualify for the "know atleast one telepathy power"? Will I need to specifically research a power off telepath list?

And For the Skills I need, when it says 4 points in ??? does it mean I need to spend the 4 points, or the total has to be 4? As a Kalashtar Erudite, for example my bluff is 3. DO i need to spend 8 points (cross class) on it, or just the 2 to get it up to 4?

[Lhurgyof]

If you're looking for action abuse, synchronicity is amazing. So is anticipatory strike, but synchronicity... wow. OP.

I'm a big fan of Psychic Reformation. And Quintessence. Combine with things that have a short duration to get things with a very long duration.

Spell to Power ACF is fantastic, which you can get along with mantle. You just have to trade out both your psicrystal and bonus feat.



did somebody say torch? (http://extreme-gamerz.org/diablo2/images/Inferno7.jpg)

Synchronicity with a Schism is downright ridiculous. Trust me, I've done it. :smalltongue:

[Renen]

You mean when your schism mind does synchronicity over and over, giving you extra actions?

[Lhurgyof]

You mean when your schism mind does synchronicity over and over, giving you extra actions?

Yeah, I would have my second mind hold its action, but I didn't take it too far.

[Renen]

And For the Skills I need, when it says 4 points in ??? does it mean I need to spend the 4 points, or the total has to be 4? As a Kalashtar Erudite, for example my bluff is 3. DO i need to spend 8 points (cross class) on it, or just the 2 to get it up to 4?

While you are here, could you tell me how that works?

[Nettlekid]

While you are here, could you tell me how that works?

To get into a Prestige Class, the number listed next to the skills is always Skill Ranks in that skill, not skill points you spent. Remember, you use skill points to buy skill ranks, but it's not always a 1:1 tradeoff. If a skill is a class skill you can spent 1 skill point to buy 1 skill rank, and buy up to your CL+3 ranks total in that skill. For cross-class skills, you spend 1 skill point to buy 0.5 skill ranks, so 2 skill points for 1 skill rank, and the maximum number of ranks you're allowed to have is (CL+3)/2. If a skill was ever at any point a class skill, the maximum number of ranks you're allowed to have is CL+3, even if your current class does not have that skill as a class skill. However, buying new skill ranks in that new class will still cost 2 skill points per skill rank. So to get a 4 in Bluff for Mindbender, for example, you will need to spend 8 skill points and be level 5 minimum, if Bluff is never a class skill for you.

[KillingAScarab]

Bluff, diplomacy intimidate and sense motive, the skills you need four ranks in each in order to enter the mindbender prestige class, are not class skills for erudites. All but intimidate, however, are class skills for psions with the telepathy discipline. While the telepath would need to invest 20 skill points over 5 levels, a single-classed erudite would need to invest 32 skill points.

If, after you have at least 2 levels in erudite, you take a level in psychic rogue (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723b) (a psionic class by WotC which isn't found in a book, only online), not only do you get all four of those skills as class skills, but you're getting 4 more skill points to spend on them as class skills. 1 skill rank per 1 skill point, and you could purchase all of the ranks you require in at least one of those four prerequisite skills. Alternatively, you could just use regular rogue; you get 2 more skill points beyond the psychic variety and you don't need to worry about endangering your ability to add to your erudite repertoire.

As for how to meet the 3rd level or higher telepathy power to enter Mindbender? If you stay with a mantled erudite, there are at least two mantles which give you access to 3rd level telepath powers, so you wouldn't need to wait until you could learn 4th level powers in general. The deception mantle has false sensory input on its list, while the pain and suffering mantle has empathic transfer, hostile on its list. There may be more, I was only looking quickly at what's available as a 3rd level power.

[Renen]

Wow, to get mindbender, I either have to lose a ML or spend a tonn of skill points... Ouch... Just wish It was easier to get the damn telepathy.
Maybe I should Just give mindsight to my psycristal?

[Psyren]

Er, I think you two are confused. When Psionic Mindbender asks for a Telepathy power, it's not asking for one that is restricted to the Telepath Discipline - it means any old Telepathy power will do, even one from the general list, so long as it is 3rd-level or higher. So you can qualify just fine with, say, Solicit Psicrystal (my favored choice) or Psionic Blast. Or you can delay a bit and pick up a higher-level power like Schism to use for this instead.

As far as the skill points, the easiest way around it is two feats - Human Heritage and Able Leaner. Kalashtar are a "human-descended race" and so qualify for the former, which gives you the human subtype you'll need to qualify for the latter. Combine this with your high Int score and you'll have no trouble cross-classing those skill ranks.

[KillingAScarab]

Er, I think you two are confused. When Psionic Mindbender asks for a Telepathy power...Ah, I misread it as telepath power.


As far as the skill points, the easiest way around it is two feats - Human Heritage and Able Leaner. Kalashtar are a "human-descended race" and so qualify for the former, which gives you the human subtype you'll need to qualify for the latter. Combine this with your high Int score and you'll have no trouble cross-classing those skill ranks.I didn't know human heritage could be used in that way. It even gives you four free skill points, when you will only need to invest 16. And here I was about to suggest a detour into anarchic initiate to get them as class skills.

[Psyren]

I didn't know human heritage could be used in that way. It even gives you four free skill points, when you will only need to invest 16. And here I was about to suggest a detour into anarchic initiate to get them as class skills.

It works on Changelings and Planetouched too. It might even work on Elans. I enjoy feats like that, that let you turn fluff into a mechanical advantage :smallsmile:

In fact, there is a sidebar that suggests doing away with the HH feat altogether and simply allowing human-descended races to gain the subtype for free.

[Renen]

Hmm... Would work if I use the side bar, but I cant have 2 feats at lvl 1 >_<
Now I just have to decide if Its worth a feat to have that, or if I should let my Psycristal do this, and simply communicate to me anything I need to know

[Psyren]

Hmm... Would work if I use the side bar, but I cant have 2 feats at lvl 1 >_<
Now I just have to decide if Its worth a feat to have that, or if I should let my Psycristal do this, and simply communicate to me anything I need to know

Are Flaws not allowed? And if not, just talk to your DM.