3.5 Build Help (Scout/Bard Multiclass)

[Numen Wraith.]

The info:
1) Scout/Bard is the general theme of the character. He's supposed to be a sentinel type. I'd be willing to substitute other classes (SRD and Completes are preapproved), but I'd prefer to stay with these.

2) Character is a Halfling. Not negotiable.

3) Starting: Level 8, gold 27k

The Questions:
1) Suggested level splits?

2) Suggested feats and skills?

3) Suggested Ability score rankings?

4) (My biggest building weakness :smallredface: ) Suggested equipment?

[ericp65]

Which should be the starting class?

[Numen Wraith.]

I'm open to either, honestly. I'd balance toward the Scout typically, but that's mostly because I'm more comfortable with and used to the class. If someone can present a build more weighed to the Bard that I like, I won't be opposed.

[Zaq]

Hmm. Is a glimmerskin halfling acceptable? If so, you could get a decent DFI package started, then move into Scout. What do you want the character to actually DO? "Sentinel-type" doesn't mean anything to me. The only synergy I see Bard and Scout having together would be taking just enough Bard to get whatever level of IC/DFI op you want, then doing a Swift Hunter-style thing. Of course, that puts you kinda behind on BAB, and you'll almost surely need flaws to help with the feat situation.

Basically, it doesn't seem to me that Bard and Scout really do much for each other on the same (non-Gestalt) character. You've clearly got SOME idea in mind, but it's not obvious to me what you're hoping to get out of each of these two classes, and so without knowing what you actually want, there's not much I can think to suggest. What are you aiming for?

[Numen Wraith.]

I essentially want him to be the point character and capable of buffing others while scoping out what's ahead. Sentinel like a look out... an early warning system.

[Urpriest]

I essentially want him to be the point character and capable of buffing others while scoping out what's ahead. Sentinel like a look out... an early warning system.

Bards already get Hide, Move Silently, and Listen...not Spot though.

How about:

Spellthief 1 (for skills and sneak attack)/Bard 4/Unseen Seer 5/Sublime Chord 2/Unseen Seer 5/something fun X

Spellthief is mostly in there if you can get a favorable reading of the Master Spellthief feat. If not, you could replace that level with Scout and it should still work fine. This lets you have skills and divinations to scout ahead, while keeping your buffing prowess up.

[Zaq]

Ah. Why Scout, then? If you can find a way to get Spot as a class skill, you'll probably be better off with just Bard, to be honest. Skirmish doesn't do much unless you really focus on it (for example, Swift Hunter builds), and while the Scout technically has more skill points than the Bard, a creative Bard doesn't really need it. Perhaps if you just use the Savage Bard from UA? That gives you some Scout-like spells, as well as the Survival skill. Fast Movement isn't useless, especially on a slowpoke like a halfling, but since the Scout's FM is an enhancement bonus, it doesn't stack with basically any other magical speed increase, which you can just buy by your level.

The feat Fell Conspiracy (Exemplars of Evil) might be perfect for you. It has nothing to do with being evil, despite the name, and it makes scouting and detecting things MUCH easier. 50 gp a day is nothing by your level (set aside a measly 1k, and you'll have twenty days of it active. If you can't make back 1,000 gp with 20 days of active adventuring at level 8, something's wrong), and it gives the entire party a massive boost to Spot and Listen, as well as telepathy.

Basically, if you lay out exactly what you're hoping to gain by going Scout, we can probably find a way to get something pretty similar without sacrificing much from you being a Bard.

[Numen Wraith.]

Scout is really the build idea. I want to be able to be extra mobile and have some combat ability. I don't like the idea of being a completely support character, but I do want to have that be a secondary role. Is scout one of those things where the class so named isn't the best way to play the role (like Ninja)?

The campaign is going to be military themed, so I think there'll be major benefit to seeing before being seen, which is the whole idea behind my concept. He sneaks around and finds the enemy lines and alerts his companions and then buffs them and provides ranged support.

[Person_Man]

I essentially want him to be the point character and capable of buffing others while scoping out what's ahead. Sentinel like a look out... an early warning system.

Scout and Barbarian are generally considered weak Tier 4 classes. If I were to combine them, I'd go with Scout 7/Lion Totem (Complete Champion) Barbarian 1

Other Options:

Druid: Spot and Listen by default. Invest in Hide and Move Silently cross class, and get massive Skill and Dex bonuses from your Wildshape forms. Plus you get full casting, with a variety of potent healing and buff options.
Cleric: Arguably the best buffer in the game. You just need to find the right sneaky domains and prestige classes with casting progression to add the appropriate Skills.
Psychic Rogue (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723b): All the fun of a normal Rogue, with psionic powers.

[Urpriest]

Scout is really the build idea. I want to be able to be extra mobile and have some combat ability. I don't like the idea of being a completely support character, but I do want to have that be a secondary role. Is scout one of those things where the class so named isn't the best way to play the role (like Ninja)?

The campaign is going to be military themed, so I think there'll be major benefit to seeing before being seen, which is the whole idea behind my concept. He sneaks around and finds the enemy lines and alerts his companions and then buffs them and provides ranged support.

Scout isn't so much a class that makes you mobile as a class that encourages you to be mobile. Very little in Scout enhances your mobility (a few trackless step-like abilities, some speed boosts that, as mentioned, don't stack with magic), while its most prominent feature (Skirmish) is an ability that encourages you to move. If you feel like you need that encouragement, the build I suggested before with Scout, Bard and Unseen Seer should do what you want.

Support, by contrast, usually takes a lot of build dedication, either to bardic music (lots of feats spent) or to spells (a low level buff spell won't be very relevant to a high level party, if you want to buff with spells you need to keep them on par).

As a final thing to consider, that whole paragraph about seeing before being seen? That's what the Unseen Seer prestige class is all about.

[Numen Wraith.]

I've looked into it, and I like Unseen Seer, but the problem is now that it's PbP and I'd like to be selected, so I have to get the DM to like the character (and build). The DM is apparently biased against single level dips into classes, so I'd like to avoid them.

Also, UA has been all but banned.

Would Rogue x/Bard x/Unseen Seer x work well? If so, what's the best way to go about getting into the class while avoiding dips?

Rogue 2/Bard 2/US 4? (I know this would require a CHA bonus to fulfil the spell requirements for US)

[Urpriest]

I've looked into it, and I like Unseen Seer, but the problem is now that it's PbP and I'd like to be selected, so I have to get the DM to like the character (and build). The DM is apparently biased against single level dips into classes, so I'd like to avoid them.

Also, UA has been all but banned.

Would Rogue x/Bard x/Unseen Seer x work well? If so, what's the best way to go about getting into the class while avoiding dips?

Rogue 2/Bard 2/US 4? (I know this would require a CHA bonus to fulfil the spell requirements for US)

You can't get enough skill points to make that last build work, but something like Rogue 2/Bard 3/US 3 would work. You could totally do it with Scout too, Scout 2/Bard 3/US 3 may be a little worse but should still be viable.

[Person_Man]

Oh, and if for some reason your DM allows homebrew and mobility is a key goal, check out the Vanguard in my signature.

[Numen Wraith.]

You can't get enough skill points to make that last build work, but something like Rogue 2/Bard 3/US 3 would work. You could totally do it with Scout too, Scout 2/Bard 3/US 3 may be a little worse but should still be viable.

Oh yeah. :smallredface:

Thanks for your help. I think it's going to be R2/B3/US3.

Suggestions on feats and equipment? Especially equipment...

I feel like it always takes me five hours to do a character sheet and ninety percent of that time seems to be spent on equipment.

[Numen Wraith.]

Oh, and if for some reason your DM allows homebrew and mobility is a key goal, check out the Vanguard in my signature.

No homebrew. :(

[Urpriest]

Oh yeah. :smallredface:

Thanks for your help. I think it's going to be R2/B3/US3.

Suggestions on feats and equipment? Especially equipment...

I feel like it always takes me five hours to do a character sheet and ninety percent of that time seems to be spent on equipment.

Featswise, I see three possible avenues of development.

One would be focusing on Sneak Attack. You don't have the BAB or hp to be a TWF-blender, so I would instead recommend a Curmudgeon-style Rogue. Spend the first round attacking with a bow (possibly with Rapid Shot) then once all enemies aren't flat-footed, move into a flank. I'd recommend Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, and Knowledge Devotion, but I'm probably not doing the build justice. I'd recommend looking around for some of Curmudgeon's posts for inspiration.

In the second, you emphasize bardic music. Grab Dragonfire Inspiration (hopefully with Glimmerskin Halfling so you're dragonblooded), Song of the Heart, and something else that boosts Bardic Music, and make sure that one of your spells known is Inspirational Boost and that one of your items is a Vest of Legends.

In the third, you focus on more general buffing and competence. You'll want Practiced Spellcaster (you'll want it eventually with the other two builds as well) and other feats that enhance your spellcasting, plus at least Knowledge Devotion for a boost in combat.

Once you've picked one of those, we can start thinking about gear.

[ericp65]

Is a third-party sourcebook allowed, and would you consider elf for the race? The book Wood Elves (Green Ronin) has a PrC called Wildsinger that's at least thematically compatible. This PrC allows you to enter whether you started in a class with Wild Empathy, or in a class with Bardic music.

[Numen Wraith.]

Pretty sure that third party sources would be banned.

I think I'll focus on Bardic Music. It's been a while since I've played a Bard, and I have plenty of rogue and rogue-type characters, so it'll be an interesting change for me.