Optimizing the Drunken Master

[Pickford]

So, I've been browsing through this class, and it seems like it would make a pretty amusing opponent.

Entry requirement has 8 ranks tumble, so at least 5th level of something with at least 1 level of monk for flurry of blows; and likely 2 monk since evasion is at 2.

That leaves 3 swing levels, but frankly I am not seeing anything that makes it 'really' worth taking those in anything but monk.

Now the question remains: What, if anything, can be done to offset the -4 penalty for using improvised weapons?

[Togath]

if PF is open, there's the catch off guard feat, which grants proficiency with improvised weapons(but then again, that's the only reason to take drunken master).
I'd also suggest using as few levels of monk as possible, since it's one of the weakest classes(perhaps swordsage if your set on an unarmed combatant, or a rogue otherwise?).

[WhatBigTeeth]

The two readily abusable special features are the circle-charge thing and the uncapped weapon reach, so most Drunken Master builds you see are going to focus on charge bonuses against adjacent targets or on making long AoOs with ropes and ladders.

On the improvised weapon proficiency, I think that's about as common of a houserule as the monk's unarmed strike proficiency, for the same reasons. But if that isn't solved, and catch off guard isn't an option, you might be able to argue that Justicar's EWP: Manacles sets a precedent for improvised exotic weapon proficiency, which would let one Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat and a Warblade dip fix the proficiency issue.

[Carth]

Drunken masters make okay throwers, as you can just start picking up whatever is around you and hurling it. Also, because drunken master grants a bonus d12 to damage, for fun you can try and get d10 monk damage, and then try to find a way to add d8s, d6s, and d4s to you attack to roll everything at once. :smallbiggrin:

With regards to improvised weapons, I'm fairly sure there's no way to become proficient, but you can offset it by rocketing your strength through some combination of barbarian, frenzied berserker, wildrunner (note that the adapation section of this class basically says the elf requirement is pointless), fist of the forest, and so forth can be useful.

[Fearan]

I'd like to suggest the wisdom of the Iron Chefs (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176049)

[StreamOfTheSky]

It'd probably require gestalt to have enough levels to work with, but Stagger would be really awesome with the cityscape Barbarian's Streetfighter (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a) 19th level ability.
At 19th level, the barbarian acquires a "cleaving charge." If he drops an opponent on a charge attack, and he has at least 10 feet of movement remaining, he can immediately make a new charge attack against a second foe. If he drops that foe and still has movement remaining, he can charge a third, and so on until he either fails to drop a foe, or runs out of movement. All the other standard rules for a charge attack still apply, including the fact that he must have at least 10 feet of distance to make the charge.
Even if he somehow gains the ability to make multiple attacks on a charge (such as with the lion's charge spell from the Spell Compendium), he must drop the foe on the first attack to use this ability. Similarly, he cannot use this ability and Cleave or Great Cleave in the same round.

Anyway, back to practical / possible combos...

Stagger is basically the only real appeal of the PrC mechanically.
I suppose if you focus heavily on a single stat to X (like the fist of the forest deepwarden builds with Steadfast Determination that add Con to will saves and AC...twice!), the drink like a demon could be useful.
And Corkscrew Rush could be nice if allowed to combine w/ Knockback feat for the huge bull rush bonus (no where does it require an unarmed attack, so go 2H weapon for the x2 bonus) - you'd basically be sacrificing two free bullrush attempts in order to get the *good* bull rush to be the one that forces a stun save. Either way, combined with pounce, shock trooper, and maybe cometary collision. But that takes NINE levels of the class to get, which really isn't worth all the wait...

I think the best route is to make a pouncing charger type that just dips Drunken Master for Stagger. I'm not sure exactly what to do with it, though.

[Pickford]

if PF is open, there's the catch off guard feat, which grants proficiency with improvised weapons(but then again, that's the only reason to take drunken master).
I'd also suggest using as few levels of monk as possible, since it's one of the weakest classes(perhaps swordsage if your set on an unarmed combatant, or a rogue otherwise?).

My preference is 3.5 only as I don't play PF.

Unarmed Swordsage doesn't seem to do anything, it still has the <+1 BAB and the class features lack application for the Drunken Master... (i.e. weapon focus applies to ...weapons), evasion is at 9th level, why bother when monk gets it at 2? I guess I'm just not convinced it provides any utility at all under the circumstances given.

Rogue seems similarly useless, Monk 1 is required for flurry....why waste 2 levels in Rogue to drop by 1 BAB and significantly worse saves? (as 1st levels are +0 for BAB and 1-2 is +0 for fort/will)

Key attributes of the Drunken Master seem to revolve around two mechanics:

1) Drinking:
a) 3d12 free action firebreathing (so, 30-360 damage in one round as a cone) getting this as a possibility (i.e. having at least 21 Int and 21 Wis) seems like a good priority.
b) Up to +20 in Str/Con....if pure str that's a bonus +10 to hit/damage and the ability to carry up to 2128 lbs as a light load. Assuming one can find a weapon weighing that much, it's 13d6 damage...(per CW pg. 159)

and 2) Crazy Improvised Weapons:
It's not entirely clear from the rules how damage categories increase (i.e. the Improvised Weapons (Ex) ability assumes an additional 1d4 damage, apparently regardless of the size of the weapon itself, which might deal damage easily surpassing that (i.e. a mug on the chart deals 1d3, a broken bottle 1d4, a chair 1d6, and a ladder 1d8...

Would we agree this means Improvised Weapons (Ex) provides a 1 step increase (1d3 becomes 1d4), Greater Improvised Weapons (Ex) a 2 step (1d3 to 1d8) and Superior Improvised Weapons (Ex) a 4 step (1d3 to 1d12) increase?

edit: Nm found the damage progression, it's +50% -> +33% -> +50% -> +33%...etc...
here: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12042331&postcount=3

So it would appear improvised weapons increases by 33% (i.e. 1d3 -> 1d4 and 13d6 -> 13d8; then 50% for greater (1d4->1d8) or 13d8 -> 13d12; then 33% for superior (1d8->1d12) or 13d12 - > 26d8 + unarmed damage if using something that weighs the maximum amount a drunken master can carry when under the maximum influence without going beyond a light load.

Presumably most things won't be that heavy, but it would be 3 step increases for whatever the base item is. i.e. a ladder starting at 1d8 would go to 3d8 (1d8 -> 1d12 -> 2d8 -> 3d8)

Anyway, I'd like to stack as much monk unarmed as possible, that leaves some options with Tattoo'd monk (anything else?) but if using just monk 10/drunken master 10 the unarmed damage could get +5 from monk's belt and +4 from Superior Unarmed Strike (effective monk level 19) for 2d8 + Improved Natural Attack for 3d8. Thus the base damage for the monk/drunken master would be 3d8, or 3d8 + 1d12 (for a tiny sized improvised weapon)

edit: Pre-drinking, post guzzling, it would be 3d8 + 1d12 + 10 (at least) for the str bonus...if using fiery fist that's another 1d6 fire damage so between 15-52 per hit, assuming a +0 to str bonus naturally...which is unlikely, more probably it'll be at 26+, so possibly upwards of 46 str (+18) for 23-60, x2 crit, and then breathe fire for a further 30-360 (combined 53-420 non crit)