Alternative boss for Forge of Fury

[yougi]

I'm running Forge of Fury with a few friends, and we've recently decided to make the game a lasting one rather than a one-shot at 3.5. However, since the game is going to last, I want to replace the dragon at the end by some other creature, in order to conserve the idea that dragons are really powerful.

Here is what I need:
- Intelligent creature
- Creature that can fight in water and on land, if possible using the water to hide (lair is partly flooded, I want to use that)
- Creature that would form a large hoard
- Can fly
- CR 6ish

I would accept it having a few unintelligent minions if it makes sense...

The party rolled incredible stats and so are quite strong in combat: they destroyed the succubus (which, to be fair, I didn't play optimally). However, as their class choice will tell you, they're quite low-op:
- Human Paladin 4, going for pure paladinism
- Human Fighter 4, specialized in archery and going for OotBI
- Elf Sorc 1/Warlock 3, going for Eldritch Theurge
- Elf Favored Soul 3, who lost a level to the succubus

[Man on Fire]

How about Aboleth? I think they're around CR 6.

[Doorhandle]

Problem is, a correctly played aboleth will roflstomp the party, while an incorrectly played one will be far too weak.

What is the boss arena like? Mght be able to find something thematically appropriate.

[Eurus]

An aquatic/undead sphinx. A sea hag with Warlock levels. An undead (mummy, vampire, corpse creature, etc) Cloaker. A Rakshasa with Fly and Water Breathing. (I'd personally let a flying creature "fly" through water at half speed, if it has some way to breathe it)

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Why not grab an appropriately aged black dragon and use that?

[Gwendol]

Why not stick with the dragon? They're unlikely to beat it outright if it just stays in the water only to spray them with acid now and then. If it gets really hurt it can escape and fly away, only to hunt them later.

You can always change the dragon color. Green for example to get a cone of acid.

[Doorhandle]

Huge animated object?: Bonus points it it's an animated forge.
A water elemental could work: have the WATER ITSELF fight them.

[nobodez]

I've always been a fan of necromentals if you go the elemental track.

But, really, why change it? You might want to re-build the dragon to make it work within your party's cheese level (adjusting feats, skills, and whatnot to be at a similar if not better cheese level than the party). Also, if the dragon is old enough to cast teleport, make sure it leaves that way rather than die. If it has magic items in the horde, use them during the fight. Remember how smart and old it is, and know that evil doesn't mean stupid, and losing the horde is preferable to losing its life (especially if you are willing to make it a reoccurring villain, since then it can grab some class levels instead of age categories to make it harder in the future).

[yougi]

How about Aboleth? I think they're around CR 6.


Problem is, a correctly played aboleth will roflstomp the party, while an incorrectly played one will be far too weak.

What is the boss arena like? Mght be able to find something thematically appropriate.

Regarding the aboleth, that. Reygarding the boss arena,

it's a large cavern that's partly flooded. The whole dungeon is a former dwarven fort that was raided by orcs. Since then, it's been taken over by a few groups: an orc raiding party, a troglodyte tribe and a duergar team.


An aquatic/undead sphinx. A sea hag with Warlock levels. An undead (mummy, vampire, corpse creature, etc) Cloaker. A Rakshasa with Fly and Water Breathing. (I'd personally let a flying creature "fly" through water at half speed, if it has some way to breathe it)

Undead is probably a good idea, and I sure do like hags... Thanks for all the ideas!


Why not grab an appropriately aged black dragon and use that?


Why not stick with the dragon? They're unlikely to beat it outright if it just stays in the water only to spray them with acid now and then. If it gets really hurt it can escape and fly away, only to hunt them later.

You can always change the dragon color. Green for example to get a cone of acid.

I know. It would make a great recurring villain, but I prefer keeping dragons for later levels so the players still feel anguish regarding them. I don't want the PCs to go "dragons? We've been beating that since level 4, we should be alright!"


Huge animated object?: Bonus points it it's an animated forge.
A water elemental could work: have the WATER ITSELF fight them.

But neither is intelligent, whichwouldn't make it work with the rest of the dungeon.


I've always been a fan of necromentals if you go the elemental track.

But, really, why change it? You might want to re-build the dragon to make it work within your party's cheese level (adjusting feats, skills, and whatnot to be at a similar if not better cheese level than the party). Also, if the dragon is old enough to cast teleport, make sure it leaves that way rather than die. If it has magic items in the horde, use them during the fight. Remember how smart and old it is, and know that evil doesn't mean stupid, and losing the horde is preferable to losing its life (especially if you are willing to make it a reoccurring villain, since then it can grab some class levels instead of age categories to make it harder in the future).

And where can I find necromentals?

[Just to Browse]

The story of Nightscale is that she terrorized the countryside for a bit before she went into her cave. Are you planning on including that?

If so, then your options are pretty meager. Advanced alligators and snakes are possible, because they're big closet trolls and you can couple them with a few other swimming snakes.

Nagas also work. The water naga is CR 7 technically, but casts like a level 7 sorcerer and has a 1d8 con poison bite attack. It's super squishy, but if it pre-buffed with a bunch of tanking spells it'd be a good boss fight.

[yougi]

The story of Nightscale is that she terrorized the countryside for a bit before she went into her cave. Are you planning on including that?

If so, then your options are pretty meager. Advanced alligators and snakes are possible, because they're big closet trolls and you can couple them with a few other swimming snakes.

Nagas also work. The water naga is CR 7 technically, but casts like a level 7 sorcerer and has a 1d8 con poison bite attack. It's super squishy, but if it pre-buffed with a bunch of tanking spells it'd be a good boss fight.

About the terrorized the countryside thing, that would be a plus, but the PCs got no information on that, so it could be changed. I like the water naga, another great choice. Hmmmm, I have lots of thinking to do!

[Gwendol]

Let me ask you to detail how your party plans to overcome a level appropriate encounter with a black dragon in the dark mere? The point of the excercise is to see how you work the monster.

In this case a juvenile black dragon would be appropriate. It can cast darkness, typically on an object it carries to grant it 20% miss chance. In addition, it will likely have some other magic objects for protection with it's triple wealth (and the closeness to a dwarven forge). Something like amulet of natural armor, and a healing belt perhaps, probably something to increase deflection bonus too.
Finally, feats: Improved initiative, multiattack, power attack, some breath weapon related feat(s), wingover. For example.

[Just to Browse]

Let me ask you to detail how your party plans to overcome a level appropriate encounter with a black dragon in the dark mere? The point of the excercise is to see how you work the monster.

In this case a juvenile black dragon would be appropriate. It can cast darkness, typically on an object it carries to grant it 20% miss chance. In addition, it will likely have some other magic objects for protection with it's triple wealth (and the closeness to a dwarven forge). Something like amulet of natural armor, and a healing belt perhaps, probably something to increase deflection bonus too.
Finally, feats: Improved initiative, multiattack, power attack, some breath weapon related feat(s), wingover. For example.

I think you're missing the point. The basic premise is it's not a dragon. You cannot make the solution to that be "make it a dragon" because that is the very problem itself.

[ksbsnowowl]

Two ideas:

Half dragon Scrag (ignore the stupidity that 3rd edition scrags suffocate out of water - 2nd Ed's could breath out of water for an hour)

Half-Fiend Scrag.

[Gwendol]

I thought the problem was that the dragon is too young to be all that awesome (terrifying). My point is that the dragon is likely awesome enough if played to its strengths (i.e. not standing and trading full attacks with the paladin). I think it's good enough to cause a TPK, if played well.

[Rijan_Sai]

I thought the problem was that the dragon is too young to be all that awesome (terrifying). My point is that the dragon is likely awesome enough if played to its strengths (i.e. not standing and trading full attacks with the paladin). I think it's good enough to cause a TPK, if played well.

Not quite, as I understand it. His problem is the fact that it is a dragon. He wants to keep dragons as something "special" for later on, and not lose the impact of being a "Dragon" just because the party beat one at low levels:


I know. It would make a great recurring villain, but I prefer keeping dragons for later levels so the players still feel anguish regarding them. I don't want the PCs to go "dragons? We've been beating that since level 4, we should be alright!"

[yougi]

I think you're missing the point. The basic premise is it's not a dragon. You cannot make the solution to that be "make it a dragon" because that is the very problem itself.


I thought the problem was that the dragon is too young to be all that awesome (terrifying). My point is that the dragon is likely awesome enough if played to its strengths (i.e. not standing and trading full attacks with the paladin). I think it's good enough to cause a TPK, if played well.

I was planning on making it juvenile already, and indeed, it's strong enough to be a possible TPK. However, I don't want to "waste" the effect of facing a dragon: for all but one player, it's their first 3.5 game, and I want to keep the dragon as a symbol of power. In other words, the problem is not lack of power compared to a 4th level party, it's lack of absolute power.


Not quite, as I understand it. His problem is the fact that it is a dragon. He wants to keep dragons as something "special" for later on, and not lose the impact of being a "Dragon" just because the party beat one at low levels:


Exactly!


Two ideas:

Half dragon Scrag (ignore the stupidity that 3rd edition scrags suffocate out of water - 2nd Ed's could breath out of water for an hour)

Half-Fiend Scrag.

Scrags could be an idea, although describing them as intelligent is a far shot...

[ksbsnowowl]

Scrags could be an idea, although describing them as intelligent is a far shot...

Use the Primordial Giant template from Secrets of Xen'drik. -4 Str, -2 Con, +4 Int, +4 Cha, gain a spell-like ability useable at will (invisibility, invisibility purge, or levitate) at a caster level equal to racial HD + 1.
Edit: It is a +0 LA/CR template. It has a few other things associated with it (bonus knowledge skill), but that's the meat of it, and enough for you to work from.

A Primordial Giant Scrag would have a base Intelligence of 10. Half Dragon would make that 12; Half Fiend would be an Intelligence of 14.

Edit 2: I see that you were originally planning to use a Juvenile Black Dragon (or this is the published boss in the module). A juvenile black dragon's stats are only Str 17, Dex 10, Con 15, Int 10, Wis 11, Cha 10. A Half-Fiend Scrag all by itself (no primordial giant), has stats of Str 27, Dex 18, Con 25, Int 10, Wis 9, Cha 8. Primordial Giant would help if you were going the Half-dragon route, though.

Here's an idea... make it a Half-Dragon Primodial Giant Scrag, give him the Dragon Breath feat from races of the dragon (allows him to breathe with his breath weapon every 1d4 rounds), and work his backstory into the backstory of a future dragon foe you want your PC's to fight. It's sort of a precursor, hinting at things to come, and the scrag's death could put the PC's on the bad side of a powerful dragon because they killed his son.

There was a third party adventure by Penumbra Press back in 2002 or so, written by Monte Cook, titled "Beyond the Veil." It was for 9th level PC's. The main BBEG was a Ghost Young Adult (?) Black dragon. In the course of the adventure, the PC's go to the ethereal plane and fight the dragon (who is effectively a material creature when encountered on the ethereal plane), where he has a secret lair built of semi-solid acid, and there are several half-dragon creatures that he sired before dying. You could use this as a good bookend to tie the two adventures together. You could even alter the creatures encountered to up the level of the module pretty easily.

[yougi]

Use the Primordial Giant template from Secrets of Xen'drik. -4 Str, -2 Con, +4 Int, +4 Cha, gain a spell-like ability useable at will (invisibility, invisibility purge, or levitate) at a caster level equal to racial HD + 1.
Edit: It is a +0 LA/CR template. It has a few other things associated with it (bonus knowledge skill), but that's the meat of it, and enough for you to work from.

A Primordial Giant Scrag would have a base Intelligence of 10. Half Dragon would make that 12; Half Fiend would be an Intelligence of 14.

Edit 2: I see that you were originally planning to use a Juvenile Black Dragon (or this is the published boss in the module). A juvenile black dragon's stats are only Str 17, Dex 10, Con 15, Int 10, Wis 11, Cha 10. A Half-Fiend Scrag all by itself (no primordial giant), has stats of Str 27, Dex 18, Con 25, Int 10, Wis 9, Cha 8. Primordial Giant would help if you were going the Half-dragon route, though.

Here's an idea... make it a Half-Dragon Primodial Giant Scrag, give him the Dragon Breath feat from races of the dragon (allows him to breathe with his breath weapon every 1d4 rounds), and work his backstory into the backstory of a future dragon foe you want your PC's to fight. It's sort of a precursor, hinting at things to come, and the scrag's death could put the PC's on the bad side of a powerful dragon because they killed his son.

There was a third party adventure by Penumbra Press back in 2002 or so, written by Monte Cook, titled "Beyond the Veil." It was for 9th level PC's. The main BBEG was a Ghost Young Adult (?) Black dragon. In the course of the adventure, the PC's go to the ethereal plane and fight the dragon (who is effectively a material creature when encountered on the ethereal plane), where he has a secret lair built of semi-solid acid, and there are several half-dragon creatures that he sired before dying. You could use this as a good bookend to tie the two adventures together. You could even alter the creatures encountered to up the level of the module pretty easily.

Those are good points. I didn't really think of the dragon as having average intelligence. And I forgot that Half-Fiend gave +4 Int. And thanks for the Beyond the Veil proposition, I'll look into that.

To be honest I was thinking Sea Hag or Green Hag and for it to bring the attention of the rest of a covey. However, to access the place, one needs flight, so I'd need to figure out a way to give a Hag wings... Half-Dragon maybe? I would have liked to have it be more physically impressive than an old woman with wings, but that might be it...

[Eurus]

Those are good points. I didn't really think of the dragon as having average intelligence. And I forgot that Half-Fiend gave +4 Int. And thanks for the Beyond the Veil proposition, I'll look into that.

To be honest I was thinking Sea Hag or Green Hag and for it to bring the attention of the rest of a covey. However, to access the place, one needs flight, so I'd need to figure out a way to give a Hag wings... Half-Dragon maybe? I would have liked to have it be more physically impressive than an old woman with wings, but that might be it...

A hag warlock with Fell Flight would be awesome, but if you don't like the monsters-with-class-levels thing, you can always just slap the Winged template on it. It's like what, +2 Wis, a fly speed, and that's it?

[yougi]

A hag warlock with Fell Flight would be awesome, but if you don't like the monsters-with-class-levels thing, you can always just slap the Winged template on it. It's like what, +2 Wis, a fly speed, and that's it?

+4 Dex too, and +1 CR.

And hag lock would be great, BUT Lesser Invocations come at Warlock 6, and that would make a CR10 encounter, a bit too much for a level 4 party...

I could also simply refluff the black dragon... Hmmmmmm... so many options!

[ngilop]

I know. It would make a great recurring villain, but I prefer keeping dragons for later levels so the players still feel anguish regarding them. I don't want the PCs to go "dragons? We've been beating that since level 4, we should be alright!"



More like "oh ****.. a dragon lets NOT fight it... remember what happened in the old dwarven place with that baby black dragon?.. now just imagine what a bigger, stronger, and smarter one can do"

thats is how it worked for my players and how I imagne what the dragon is supposed to do anywyas give players a taste of what dragons can do, and thats just a baby...

[ksbsnowowl]

To be honest I was thinking Sea Hag or Green Hag and for it to bring the attention of the rest of a covey. However, to access the place, one needs flight, so I'd need to figure out a way to give a Hag wings... Half-Dragon maybe? I would have liked to have it be more physically impressive than an old woman with wings, but that might be it...

If it's the medium size you aren't liking, you could do a similar thing with an Annis Hag with the Amphibious template (Stormwrack), which is +0 LA, and can apply to Monstrous Humanoids.

Adding half dragon would still make it CR 8 though. Not sure if that's too high (Juvi black is CR 7).

Do you actually need to fly to the location? Or could you use Spider Climb? One level of Warlock could get her spider climb at will.

Edit: another idea that might work (though suffers from a lack of intelligence) is using a Gargoyle as the base creature. There is the aquatic version of a gargoyle (kapoacinth, or something) which doesn't have wings, but does swim. Make one of those into a half dragon (end intelligence 8) or half fiend (end intelligence 10) to give it back a fly speed. Those give you a CR 5 or 6, though you could advance its HD by 3 to make either one a CR 7.

[yougi]

If it's the medium size you aren't liking, you could do a similar thing with an Annis Hag with the Amphibious template (Stormwrack), which is +0 LA, and can apply to Monstrous Humanoids.

Adding half dragon would still make it CR 8 though. Not sure if that's too high (Juvi black is CR 7).

Do you actually need to fly to the location? Or could you use Spider Climb? One level of Warlock could get her spider climb at will.

I was thinking of a Sea Hag, which would make it CR6 with Half Dragon, and CR7 with a Warlock level.

Spider climbing is an option, although it's FAR from optimal. I guess spider climb at will is a solution, but you know...

[ksbsnowowl]

See my edit above for another idea with a gargoyle, though it looks like hags are what you are wanting.

Another few ideas on that front. Marzanna hags (Frostburn) are CR 6 and have a swim speed. Half dragon would make it CR 8. It cannot breath underwater, but can use alter self 3/day. As a half dragon, her type would be dragon, so she could alter self into a dragon form (though sadly a 5 HD black is Tiny, so she can't alter self into that unless you bend the rules and allow her to break the 5 HD cap - caster level is 8th, 7 HD black dragons are small). She could alter self into a 5 HD green wyrmling, however (size small). Sadly, this still wouldn't give you water breathing. You could make her Amphibious, as described above, though.

Lastly, the Bhuer hag (CR 9) and the Shrieking hag (CR 10) from Unapproachable East both have fly speeds inherently, and you could make them Amphibious for no change in CR. However, I think these are too high a CR for your purposes.

The UE hags: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20030502a&page=3


Edit: another though with the Marzanna hag. Just make her Amphibious (CR remains 6). Then she can use Alter Self 3 times per day to change into a Gargoyle (both are Monstrous Humanoids) for 80 minutes each time. In such a form she would retain her ability to breath underwater because she would retain her aquatic subtype, but would lose her swim speed...

It's not perfect, but it could work. One level of Warlock for the Swimming the Styx invocation (Comp Mage) would give you a swim speed and the ability to breath water. A straight up Marzanna hag w/ one level of warlock is CR 7 and could fly as a gargoyle for 4 hours a day (split into three 80 minute segments), and could swim and breath water 24/7.

[yougi]

See my edit above for another idea with a gargoyle, though it looks like hags are what you are wanting.

Another few ideas on that front. Marzanna hags (Frostburn) are CR 6 and have a swim speed. Half dragon would make it CR 8. It cannot breath underwater, but can use alter self 3/day. As a half dragon, her type would be dragon, so she could alter self into a dragon form (though sadly a 5 HD black is Tiny, so she can't alter self into that unless you bend the rules and allow her to break the 5 HD cap - caster level is 8th, 7 HD black dragons are small). She could alter self into a 5 HD green wyrmling, however (size small). Sadly, this still wouldn't give you water breathing. You could make her Amphibious, as described above, though.

Lastly, the Bhuer hag (CR 9) and the Shrieking hag (CR 10) from Unapproachable East both have fly speeds inherently, and you could make them Amphibious for no change in CR. However, I think these are too high a CR for your purposes.

The UE hags: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20030502a&page=3


Edit: another though with the Marzanna hag. Just make her Amphibious (CR remains 6). Then she can use Alter Self 3 times per day to change into a Gargoyle (both are Monstrous Humanoids) for 80 minutes each time. In such a form she would retain her ability to breath underwater because she would retain her aquatic subtype, but would lose her swim speed...

It's not perfect, but it could work. One level of Warlock for the Swimming the Styx invocation (Comp Mage) would give you a swim speed and the ability to breath water. A straight up Marzanna hag w/ one level of warlock is CR 7 and could fly as a gargoyle for 4 hours a day (split into three 80 minute segments), and could swim and breath water 24/7.

Those are all solid ideas. Gargoyles being unintelligent kind of forces them out, but Marzanna would rock... Will have to look into that.

And while I do like the hag idea, especially for the trouble it could bring in the future, I'm also starting to fall for the idea of a water naga, especially one with many illusion spells (so I could keep the "there's a dragon down there" rumors. And I wouldn't meed fly, as an aberration only needs alter self... What?! No flying aberration with 5HD or less? Curse!

[ksbsnowowl]

What?! No flying aberration with 5HD or less? Curse!

Grell, MM2, 5 HD. (Also in LoM)
Spectator Beholder, Lords of Madness, 4 HD.

[ksbsnowowl]

One last off-the-wall idea for the night. The Phantom template from MM5 would make a CR 5 creature into a CR 7 creature, and give it several cool abilities, including becoming incorporeal at will.

An interesting fact about incorporeal creatures...

Incorporeal creatures ... move in any direction (including up or down) at will. They do not need to walk on the ground. They can pass through solid objects at will...It isn't flight, but it sounds like it might work for your purposes. Put it on anything with a swim speed, or something with the Swimming the Styx invocation, and you've got something that can "fly" and swim, and will confound the heck out of your players.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Those are all solid ideas. Gargoyles being unintelligent kind of forces them out, but Marzanna would rock... Will have to look into that.

And while I do like the hag idea, especially for the trouble it could bring in the future, I'm also starting to fall for the idea of a water naga, especially one with many illusion spells (so I could keep the "there's a dragon down there" rumors. And I wouldn't meed fly, as an aberration only needs alter self... What?! No flying aberration with 5HD or less? Curse!

Why bother with that? Water Nagas cast as 7th level sorcerors - which means 3rd level spells (such as... fly).

Looking through Serpent Kingdoms, you might want to consider Spit Venom as a feat.

[ksbsnowowl]

Why bother with that? Water Nagas cast as 7th level sorcerors - which means 3rd level spells (such as... fly).

Looking through Serpent Kingdoms, you might want to consider Spit Venom as a feat.

Perhaps because alter self lasts 70 minutes instead of 7.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Perhaps because alter self lasts 70 minutes instead of 7.

Just cast it when you need it - I doubt that combat with the PCs is going to last 70 rounds.

Besides, it's class, man. Is a flying snake-person cooler than a grell? Hells yes.

[Neo Tin Robo]

More like "oh ****.. a dragon lets NOT fight it... remember what happened in the old dwarven place with that baby black dragon?.. now just imagine what a bigger, stronger, and smarter one can do"

thats is how it worked for my players and how I imagne what the dragon is supposed to do anywyas give players a taste of what dragons can do, and thats just a baby...

Pretty much this. When I ran it for my group I quickly realized I could easily wipe the party if I'd had a mind to. It's effectively invisible while in the water and can pop its head out to heave acid at them from beyond their reach, and entering the water to engage it is just suicidal. But it would be lame and frustrating if it spent the whole fight submerged, so now and then I had it emerge to deliver a full-out attack or bull rush a weaker character into the water.

It should be a challenging fight to say the least, and it's too young to even possess most of the iconic dragon abilities(DR, SR, sorcery, fear). A proper dragon should send them scurrying in fear later on. It could be a vengeful parent, or even a different type of dragon who simply doesn't want some uppity humanoids thinking they can go around slaying dragon younglings for fun and profit.

[yougi]

Grell, MM2, 5 HD. (Also in LoM)
Spectator Beholder, Lords of Madness, 4 HD.


One last off-the-wall idea for the night. The Phantom template from MM5 would make a CR 5 creature into a CR 7 creature, and give it several cool abilities, including becoming incorporeal at will.

An interesting fact about incorporeal creatures...
It isn't flight, but it sounds like it might work for your purposes. Put it on anything with a swim speed, or something with the Swimming the Styx invocation, and you've got something that can "fly" and swim, and will confound the heck out of your players.

Not a bad idea either...


Why bother with that? Water Nagas cast as 7th level sorcerors - which means 3rd level spells (such as... fly).

Looking through Serpent Kingdoms, you might want to consider Spit Venom as a feat.

Serpent Kingdoms? What is that book? And regarding fly, alter self is 2nd level, which means I could use 3rd level spells on awesomer stuff.


Perhaps because alter self lasts 70 minutes instead of 7.

That also.


Just cast it when you need it - I doubt that combat with the PCs is going to last 70 rounds.

Besides, it's class, man. Is a flying snake-person cooler than a grell? Hells yes.

Agreed, BUT 7 minutes is barely enough to make it into/out of the lair, while 70 is waaaaaaaay enough. And those movements are the reason why I want it to have flight. Then again, I might just give it sudden extend instead.

And yeah, class is indeed a factor.


Pretty much this. When I ran it for my group I quickly realized I could easily wipe the party if I'd had a mind to. It's effectively invisible while in the water and can pop its head out to heave acid at them from beyond their reach, and entering the water to engage it is just suicidal. But it would be lame and frustrating if it spent the whole fight submerged, so now and then I had it emerge to deliver a full-out attack or bull rush a weaker character into the water.

It should be a challenging fight to say the least, and it's too young to even possess most of the iconic dragon abilities(DR, SR, sorcery, fear). A proper dragon should send them scurrying in fear later on. It could be a vengeful parent, or even a different type of dragon who simply doesn't want some uppity humanoids thinking they can go around slaying dragon younglings for fun and profit.

Yeah, maybe you're right. It could have a different effect then I expected. However, I'm now totally sold on either Naga or Hag.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Serpent Kingdoms? What is that book? And regarding fly, alter self is 2nd level, which means I could use 3rd level spells on awesomer stuff.

It's a Forgotten Realms supplement that focuses on the Yuan-ti and other such scaly foes (like Naga).