How do you survive at high/Epic levels?

[Nettlekid]

Doing a lot of theory-building and optimization games, I've noticed that no matter how cool a build might be or how effectively it does what it does, a Wizard (or any caster) could walk along and obliterate you without batting an eyelid, unless that's a somatic component somewhere. No matter how many thousands of damage a War Hulking Hurler can hurl, or how many dozens of Sneak Attack dice a Shadowpouncer will throw in a turn, there are still a plethora of ways to walk up to them and tell them that they're dead. It's easy to guard against some of these. Mind Blank is popular and protects against a lot, as is Freedom of Movement. These are staple things that complete non-casters will still get magic items of, for their own safety. But then there are more niche things like Death Ward or True Seeing that, if readily available a character will gladly pick up and be thankful for, but may go without just because it's too troublesome to acquire. And then there are niche things like Proof Against Transmutation or Avoid Planar Effects that could easily never come up in a whole campaign, yet if they do and you're not protected then you're toast. Even Tier 1s, Wizards and Clerics and Druids, are vulnerable to this (though of course they have cover-all backups for minor inconveniences like death that someone like a Fighter wouldn't have.) So at high levels, when you could honestly expect anything to be thrown at you, how do you cover your bases and make sure you're not stomping off to death? You could use all your WBL on protective wards, custom magic items of defensive spells, and walk around in a veritable fortress all day, but that's neither practical nor stylish. Especially since it means that's so much less money you have to trick out the huge sword you want to swing at people. What's a vulnerable creature to do?

[AmberVael]

For the caster: Celerity, Contingency, Foresight.
For the psion: Anticipatory Strike, Sense Danger, Synchronicity.

While it is possible to create some exceptional defenses, in the end, it's really, really hard to get resistance or immunity to everything. However, to go with the old adage: An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Therefore, the above powers and spells (and other things like them). Getting to react at a moment's notice brings up many interesting and fascinating options that completely change how the game is played. Is an archer throwing thousands of arrows at you that you certainly can't dodge or survive? Throw up a wall of force as an immediate action. Is someone targeting you with a high DC decerbrate? (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/decerebrate.htm) Hit them in the face with damage to disrupt it. Teleport away. Dispel magic- the defenses you can put up once you can instantly react to the attacks of another increase dramatically.

Non-casters have a much harder time though. Some get access to helpful things, like the counters from Tome of Battle, but most... well, they better hope their basic defenses are broad and buff enough to withstand assault. Of course, it's possible to manage risk there too, using strategic immunities to cover the worst stuff, and more catch all abilities for everything- Mettle, Evasion, things like the Diamond Mind save replacers, the Aura of Perfect Order Stance, miss chances, and other things that can layer on defenses and your ability to alter and ensure results.

I recently gave some advice based on my epic experience here, (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15058561&postcount=5) which includes some of the above ideas and suggestions.

[Talionis]

I think a tactic to keep in mind is that Epic level characters are a lot like nations with nuclear weapons. Everyone can do really bad things to each other. Wizards clearly are high on the power level, but every Epic level character has friends. Those friends probably create pacts to avenge one another. Creating stalemate situations where anyone wanting to kill an Epic level character has to take out several at the same time or face reprisal, often from multiple Epic level opponents.

This is not full proof. People of Epic level will scheme against one another. But much like Gods, the really high level characters are likely to fear doing somethings, because they don't want the wrath of the other Gods upon them. Unofficial codes come into place.

This may not answer your question, but it may help to add something to your campaign.

[ddude987]

Keep in mind, while I know this is all theory (I think...), as a player you have to trust your DM. If your party is all mundane and the DM is throwing casters that save or die you then you shouldn't be playing in that game. Players have to have a certain level of trust that the dm will give them an appropriate challenge. Also, there are a lot of magic items to grant immunity and being epic, your wpl is insanely high.

[Darius Kane]

How do you survive at high/Epic levels?
Through DM fiat, mainly.

[mangosta71]

How do you survive at high/Epic levels?
Win initiative.

[Krobar]

Through DM fiat, mainly.

So the same way you survive at lower levels, then?

[Alleran]

Win initiative.
And remember that it isn't paranoia if everything is out to get you.

[Nettlekid]

It seems like for the most part, people have the same quandary as I do. You can't actually SURVIVE anything, so you have to somehow make it not affect you by preventing it or being immune.

Here's a more concrete example of my attempt at an invulnerable creature. I wanted to make a high level Dragonfire Adept because they're super cool, but they don't hold the game-breaking power of casters at high levels. The Dragonfire Adept itself makes you immune to sleep and paralysis at level 19, but that's kind of irrelevant. I instead focused all money (starting with 1,000,000 gold at Epic) on buying magical defense items. Many are custom items of spells or combo items, because my DM is lenient on what we're able to buy. Tell me if I've missed anything.

+1 Spellblade Dragonfang Dagger (Red) w/ Least Crystal of Return and Wand Chamber (9,002) (Keyed to Disintegrate)
+1 Spellblade Dragonfang Dagger (Silver) w/ Least Crystal of Return and Wand Chamber (9,002) (Keyed to Greater Dispel Magic)
+1 Durable Proof Against Transmutation Feycraft Mithral Chain Shirt w/ Thistledown Padding (37,850)
+1 Heavy Fortification Feycraft Light Riverine Shield w/ Wand Chamber (38,259)
+1 Soulfire Mithral Buckler w/ Wand Chamber and Greater Crystal of Arrow Deflection (36,265)
Dragon Spirit Cincture of Battle, Sheltered Vitality (77,000)
Ring of Freedom of Movement and Arming (47,500)
Ring of Sustenance, Health, and Neutralize Poison (60,000)
Hathran Mask of True Seeing (75,000)
Cloak of Favor of the Martyr (128,000)
Boots of Adaptive Haste (21,000) Headband of Avoid Planar Effects (24,000)
Resistive Shirt of Health +6 (73,500)
Diadem of Mind Blank (1/day)(43,200) Shriver (30000) (Gaining Regeneration 5 Chaotic Good)
Wand Bracers x2 (1000)

Command-word Wand of Wings of Cover (3,600) (Unlimited Charges) (In Shield Wand Chamber)
Command-word Wand of Dimension Door (10,800) (Unlimited Charges) (In Red Dagger Wand Chamber)
Command-word Wand of Celerity (50,400) (Unlimited Charges) (In Buckler Wand Chamber)
Command-word Wand of Shrink Item (2,700) (Unlimited Charges) (In Silver Dagger Wand Chamber)

If I've done this right, a character with these items is immune to death effects and death spells, energy drain, negative energy, ability damage/drain, stun, daze, paralysis, mind affecting effects, fear, sickness, disease, poison, confusion, fatigue/exhaustion, nonlethal damage, all regular damage except for Chaotic Good aligned (and that's actually aligned, not just aligned for purposes of overcoming DR), transmutation effects, Disintegrate, Greater Dispel Magic, divinations, magic sleep, critical hits, planar effects, and suffocation. He'd have Haste, True Seeing, and Freedom of Movement on at all times. With his wands he can activate Celerity or Wings of Cover at will, because they're in wand chambers and he is always holding them. WHAT ELSE IS THERE?
(Inb4 MDJ)

[Karnith]

WHAT ELSE IS THERE?
Chained Reaving Dispel?

[Karoht]

Abjurations, Conjurations, Transmutations, Divinations.

Divinations to tell you what is happening and coming soon to an ass kicking near you.
Transmutations to turn yourself into an unstoppable juggernaut.
Conjurations to bring unstoppable juggernaut friends with you, and to get you out of harms way.
Abjurations (and some Evocations) to protect you from pretty much anything.

Wisdom is a weapon, information is ammunition.

If you can't beat em, join em or stay out of their way.
If you can beat em, strike first, strike hardest.

Secrets save lives. Secrets save nations.
Do all your 'bad' things in secret, quickly and quietly. Do your 'good' things out in public where everyone can see you, preferably with a crowd of witnesses and some decent theme music. Slay your foes, impress your allies, make new friends where ever you can.

Good fences make for good neighbors. Good allies make for good armies.

Assuming I'm not a magic user at epic levels, I make absolutely certain at all times that at least one one really good magic user (with either Wish or Miracle) owes me a favor.

[SimonMoon6]

Step 1: Encounter two pit fiends with blasphemy at will.

Step 2: Fail initiative. Get permanently insta-screwed by one pit fiend's blasphemy while the other one attacks

Step 3: Die.

Oh, wait, that's how *not* to survive. Never mind.

Step 1: Use Epic Magic to make spells with the Ward seed that protect against every spell that seems scary (like Blasphemy).

Step 2: Use Epic Magic to conquer the universe.

Step 3: Win

[ddude987]

In response to items op listed: my calculations say continuous favor of the martyr is only 112k... How did you get that other number?

[Nettlekid]

In response to items op listed: my calculations say continuous favor of the martyr is only 112k... How did you get that other number?

I'm assuming a Paladin made it, since it's a Paladin spell. A Paladin's caster level is 1/2 their class level. If you had an Archivist make it then you're right, it would be only 112k.

[Corundum Dragon]

heavily fortified (+5 bonus 25,000 gp)
100% protection against critical hits and sneak attacks.
Soulfire (+4 bonus 16,000 gp) - This armor's wearer is immune to all death spells, magical death effects, and energy drain, and any negative energy effects (such as from chill touch or inflict spells).
Battle Wizard's Armor (12,250 gp) - +1 Twilight Mithral Chain shirt. 4 charges daily.
--1 Charge: Either a Shield Spell (CL 1st) or Magic Missile (CL 3rd)
--2 Charges: Either Resist Energy (CL 1st), or Fireburst (CL 3rd)
--3 Charges: Either Invisiblity (CL 1st) or Summon Monster II (CL 4th)

I'm not sure if you can have soulfire and heavy fort on the same piece of armor. If not just put it on the mithral buckler.
Lists of Necessary Magic Items
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187851

[Yahzi]

The correct answer is: DM Fiat.

In case you hadn't noticed, the vast majority of D&D spells are offensive. The spell list was designed to give players tools to overcome obstacles. There really isn't any provision for the PCs to protect themselves from the same kind of spells and tactics the game encourages them to use on NPCS.

If you're just running a series of adventures, that answer is sufficient. But if you're trying to run a sandbox or simulation, it's a real problem. The general solution is to not play at high levels.

[Seffbasilisk]

Paranoia. Craft Contingency. Being more useful alive than dead. 'Making' friends.

Mostly paranoia.