Warhammer 40K vs Forgotten Realms vs Dragonlance

[creyzi4zb12]

Not in a fighting kind of way...Which novels do you find more entertaining and addictive in the Fantasy franchises?
What novels/books do you find great on the franchises?

[Starwulf]

Not in a fighting kind of way...Which novels do you find more entertaining and addictive in the Fantasy franchises?
What novels/books do you find great on the franchises?

Forgotten Realms. I've tried to read a Warhammer book before(not sure if it's a 40k or not), couldn't make it past page 10, I had no idea wtf was going on. Course that's probably because it was in the middle of a series or something. Really though, I've never been much into futuristic fantasy. I enjoyed Dragonlance when I was younger, owned nearly all the books that were out(I think I was missing literally two), but I eventually migrated to FR and haven't looked back.

I own 150+ FR books(that was at last count a year or two ago), I've been trying to buy up the older series that you can't find anywhere anymore(unless you luck out at a yard sale or something), it's always nice reading about the events that are virtually ancient history in the newer books ^^

[creyzi4zb12]

Stuff from Moonshae and others were pretty damn old...but it was a nice read nonetheless

[Forum Explorer]

Dragonlance is what I consider the best. Kinda. The main stories are good but a lot of the side stuff is crap.

Warhammer 40K is a fun universe but the focus on the imperium gets tiring at times.

Forgotten Realms has a few good stories and series but a lot of crap. Also I can't stand Elminister anymore. I like most of it but I find Dragonlance's world to be more interesting and coherent.

[Forrestfire]

I was never much of a fan of Dragonlance. Not sure why, but it just never interested me.

I like the forgotten realms, but I've always really loved the universe, aesthetics, and general over-the-top-ness of 40k, so that'd have to take my vote.

[Kitten Champion]

I'm not widely experienced beyond the more popular titles.

I've tried and simply given up trying to like 40K, I think the grimdarkness and the hyperbolic everything just pushes me out the experience. It feels like it's trying too hard, like 90's comics trying to seem "extreme".

I truly enjoyed Weis and Hickman's characters and stories, but I could take or leave the Dragonlance setting. There are some interesting ideas there, but I guess they never drew me into the world. Maybe because it felt so much like a character study at time, rather than an adventure story.

R. A. Salvatore's books lost their appeal to me after the Underdark portion, but my experience with Bioware's games (which are novels in most respects) makes it my favourite of the three. I suppose because it does its job well, presenting the generic medieval high fantasy world but adding a certain fulfilling richness to it. Many of the novels might be mediocre or terrible, but the setting itself isn't what's hampering the writers.

[Starwulf]

I'm not widely experienced beyond the more popular titles.

I've tried and simply given up trying to like 40K, I think the grimdarkness and the hyperbolic everything just pushes me out the experience. It feels like it's trying too hard, like 90's comics trying to seem "extreme".

I truly enjoyed Weis and Hickman's characters and stories, but I could take or leave the Dragonlance setting. There are some interesting ideas there, but I guess they never drew me into the world. Maybe because it felt so much like a character study at time, rather than an adventure story.

R. A. Salvatore's books lost their appeal to me after the Underdark portion, but my experience with Bioware's games (which are novels in most respects) makes it my favourite of the three. I suppose because it does its job well, presenting the generic medieval high fantasy world but adding a certain fulfilling richness to it. Many of the novels might be mediocre or terrible, but the setting itself isn't what's hampering the writers.

Ya know, the Salvatore complaint is one I hear often, and I always say the same thing in response: You do realize that Forgotten realms is penned by a multitude of writers, and that Salvatore is actually a fairly small portion of the stories set in that universe? A VERY small part to be honest, there is so much outside of Drizzt and his stories, he's barely above bit character really when it comes to people who have truly shaped Faerun. Even Elminster isn't that hugely important. A major character, yes, but so much more happens outside what he influences, you could read a hundred books and never encounter anything related to him or Drizzt except tiny little tidbits that you would only know relates to him if you've read all the stuff written about him.

My personal favorite character in the setting is Erevis Cale, written by Paul Kemp. Extremely well written set of books involving him. A 6 part prequel involving him(somewhat) and the family he served(The Stormweathers I think? It's been a while), and 2 Trilogy's.

[Olinser]

I've read quite a few of the 40k novels, but stopped about a year or two ago.

They have 2 major problems:

1) They are all fairly formulaic. Situation happens on world. Race that story is about goes to that world. Some grand combat ensues. Race book is written about generally triumphs.

2) The authors can't make any real CHANGES to the universe at large. This results in just the same old boring status quo in novel after novel. I just found myself not really CARING if backwater world 8237 was destroyed or not - because nothing would really change in the setting at large.

[Mordar]

For me, I think it is FR = DL > RL = WH >> WH40K.

(RL = Ravenloft, WH = Warhammer Fantasy)

Points of bias:

I am judging by the best of the groups, not necessarily the average
The order matches my volume read, so that may skew things due to point #1
Formative reading years played into DL very nicely...I'm of an age where neither FR nor DL was "dated", trite or cliche' (because these books often created the cliche'/trope)


I do think the original DL Chronicles was the best of the bunch, bringing in millions of dollars and 100s of 1000s of readers. A whole-cloth world, clever structures and memorable characters woven together with many of the tried-and-true tropes of both fantasy lit in general and AD&D in specific. A bunch of the other books were quite good, but I do think there was more variation in quality in DL than in FR (despite FR having a larger library).

FR has developed the most popular characters and organizations, spawned the Drizz't mania (and remember...it is because of how well received the Salvatore novels were that everyone wanted to read more about/play/be the semi-tragic dark elf ranger of awesomeness) and built a vast library of successful books that served as the launching point for many authors. Has it gotten too big and collapsed under its own weight? Has Elminster become the new Drizz't, a character too big to fail? Perhaps. Favorite FR books for me included the Maztica trilogy and the...um...one that started with Horselords and ended with the Cormyr novel (with Kara Tur in between).

Ravenloft had some of the best writing, I think, and some great short stories, but it didn't always properly straddle the horror/fantasy line well enough in my opinion. Interesting tidbit: The whole idea of Ravenloft was started by Tracey (and Laura) Hickman, a co-creator of DragonLance.

I really like Nathan Long's writing for WH, and haven't found too much beyond his that I enjoy. The relative expense of Black Library books has limited my willingness to experiment with other authors, and I freely admit this may be a rate-limiting factor. The same issue applies to WH40K, but perhaps even more "tellingly" as I haven't found much that captures my attention...I almost wonder if the aforementioned issue about canonical change limits the ability of the authors to explore, or if the publishers are only willing to trust a handful of authors (who I don't necessarily love)...or if perhaps grimdark 40K novels just aren't for me, despite my affection for the game.

Anyway...there you go!

- M

[Starwulf]

Favorite FR books for me included the Maztica trilogy and the...um...one that started with Horselords and ended with the Cormyr novel (with Kara Tur in between).
- M

The Horselords is a good set of books. But Maztica? Really? I mean, it's nothing more then a direct rip-off of Spanish Conquistadors coming to the New World and pillaging the natives. I mean, yeah, they added the drow. That's about it. It was literally all I could do to force myself to read through the entire trilogy, and I've since put the books in a box and will never take them out to re-read them(and that's saying something, considering I've probably re-read all of my FR collection at least 3-4 times each, some of them nearing 10 times). If I wanted to read about history(and I do sometimes), I'll read what actually happened, not a slightly fantasy-ish take on it.

[creyzi4zb12]

I read Horselords and Maztica...they were pretty nice.
Dragonlance Novels by Weis and Hickam would be the best of all of them

[MLai]

Shouldn't you be comparing those franchises to Warhammer Fantasy novels, rather than the Warhammer 40K novels?
It doesn't really make sense to compare 2 medieval fantasy universes to 1 far-future space opera universe.

[Eldan]

Never read Dragonlance, can't comment.

Read some Drizzt novels. Not bad, in a very shallow, generic fantasy way.

Tried reading a 40k novel by one of the big authors. One of the Gaunt's Ghosts series. Some of the worst crap I've ever read.

That said, if things outside of the novels count, probably 40k. I find some of the material quite interesting, especially once you get away from the Empire. Also, quite a bit of the older material, when it was more obvious that the Grimdark was meant to be comedic to some degree.

[hamishspence]

The Cain novels (by Sandy Mitchell) do balance the Grimdark with some comedy.

[Killer Angel]

Dragonlance: I've read the first Chronicles Trilogy (Dragons of Autumn Twilight, yadda yadda). not so good.

FR: something good in the underdark.

WH40K. I wasn't impressed.

So, IMO, FR wins.

[creyzi4zb12]

Shouldn't you be comparing those franchises to Warhammer Fantasy novels, rather than the Warhammer 40K novels?
It doesn't really make sense to compare 2 medieval fantasy universes to 1 far-future space opera universe.

yeah, I know...But I never knew Warhammer fantasy had books in them.

[Anterean]

yeah, I know...But I never knew Warhammer fantasy had books in them.

I recommend the witch hunter omnibus

[Eldan]

Gotrek & Felix is (starts out as?) very classical style Sword&Sorcery Fantasy. Duo of travelling warriors slaying monsters, looting treasures and spending it all on booze in between missions. Not bad, really, just not very original. I'd say still beats the Drizz't I've read.

[Empedocles]

Ive read by far the most Dragonlance books - there're a few I havent gotten my hands on. The ideas are getting more and more...silly, but for me the Chronicle and Legend trilogies were hard to beat.

Haven't read Warhammer.

Read a little FR. Most of it was mediocre generic fantasy (although, to be fair, much of DL is like that...), but some of the Driz'zt was pretty cool. What really bothers me about it is how directly D&D it is, though. I mean, granted, in Dragonlance, it's very much inspired by D&D, but in he FR books Ive read (mostly Salvatore) it feels like all his characters have stat blocks he's writing with. It feels weird to me.

[Cheesegear]

I've read several of all of them. As a whole, most 40K fiction is very analogous to Redwall. In that all the books are the same.

The Horus Heresy books are good. And, as a general rule, anything not part of the Horus Heresy by Dan Abnett, Aaron Dembski-Bowden or Ben Counter is worth reading.

Forgotten Realms books are pretty bad. The only Salvatore-written books I liked were The Cleric Quintet. War of the Spider Queen and The Lady Penitent were also good. And Erevis Cale...And...Okay. There's a lot of good Forgotten Realms books...But there are so many, many more bad ones.

Dragonlance is the winner for me (and a lot of others). While the 'trilogy of trilogies' (Chronicles, Legends, War of Souls) are obvious go-to sets. IMO, the best novels are the duo Minotaur Wars / The Ogre Titans, which details the Minotaur-Ogre rivalry and war.

[warty goblin]

The core Dragonlance novels are maybe slightly above average fantasy; most of my affection for them at this point is due to nostalgia. I never read much non-Weiss&Hickman DL, but what I did was significantly less good.

The Salvatore FR stuff is between average and mediocre, trending mediocre with time. Either that or as I got older, I actually developed something resembling literary taste. The non-Salvatore FR stuff I read was really, truly horrible. Maybe it's true what they say, and everybody has a novel inside of them. Several of the FR books I read provided solid proof that in many cases, those novels should remain nestled in the large intestines of their authors.


By the time WH40K novels began taking over bookstores in a major way, I was pretty much done with tie-in fiction, so I've no idea how they are. I'd give solid odds they're like most other tie-in fiction, which is to say topping out at slightly above average exercises in plot, light on the characters.