Human Paragon for Wizards, worth the level loss?

[dascarletm]

Is it generally thought of as worth it or not, to take Human Paragon a-la UA for a human wizard? Is it worth one level of lost spellcasting progression?

Also would you suggest taking it at 2nd level, or later?

[Pilo]

No. Don't take it, it is a trap.

[gorfnab]

Usually you want to avoid losing caster levels whenever possible. Human Paragon is useful though if you need to meet skill or feat prereqs.

[Fable Wright]

Is it generally thought of as worth it or not, to take Human Paragon a-la UA for a human wizard? Is it worth one level of lost spellcasting progression?

Also would you suggest taking it at 2nd level, or later?

Unless you're trying to qualify for a Gish class with tricky prereqs, it's definitely not worth it. If you are in that situation, though, it's usually better to take Human Paragon after the second level of Wizard, to get the +1 BAB from the wizard level.

[Flickerdart]

Thou shalt never lose caster levels.

For the lost caster level, you get:
An average of 6 more HP (d8 HD *3) - sucks
6 more skill points (4 skills/level) - sucks
1 more BAB - helps you eke out a second iterative but still sucks
A skill as a class skill forever - useful for prerequisites
+2 to a stat - basically the only useful thing

The bonus feat doesn't count, because you're missing out on the 5th level wizard bonus feat to get it (unless you're delaying real PrC entry, in which case it's even more not worth it). Basically you're trading a whole level of casting for +2 Intelligence. Even a +1 level-adjusted race will give you more than that, and LA is almost never worth it.

[dascarletm]

Thou shalt never lose caster levels.

For the lost caster level, you get:
An average of 6 more HP (d8 HD *3) - sucks
6 more skill points (4 skills/level) - sucks
1 more BAB - helps you eke out a second iterative but still sucks
A skill as a class skill forever - useful for prerequisites
+2 to a stat - basically the only useful thing

The bonus feat doesn't count, because you're missing out on the 5th level wizard bonus feat to get it (unless you're delaying real PrC entry, in which case it's even more not worth it). Basically you're trading a whole level of casting for +2 Intelligence. Even a +1 level-adjusted race will give you more than that, and LA is almost never worth it.

So, unless I need the class skill for pre-reqs then probably not.

Alright, good to know.

[Telonius]

It's a little bit more than 6 skill points - it's six plus one for every level after you get the stat bump. You'd need a race with +4 Int to get the same skill point benefit. (If you were a different race, you wouldn't get the +1 skill point per level from being human).

Still, it's probably not enough to be worth it. Might as well be a Rogue1/WizardX with Able Learner.

[Tokuhara]

I'm going to play Devil's Advocate here, and point out why Human Paragon CAN be worth the caster level loss.

1. Sure, you're slowing your Wizard progression. Here's the thing: Now you're in progression with a Sorcerer. Literally, a 1 level dip in anything isn't going to diminish your power noticeably. I've actually played a Cloistered Cleric 1/Wizard 5/Incantrix/Iot7xV/Archmage and I didn't actually notice a difference in overall power.

2. +2 to an Ability Score and a Bonus feat. Here's my 2c on this: Sometimes, a PrC that fits your character concept requires a derp feat (endurance, PBS, Iron_Will/Great_Fortitude/Lightning_Reflexes). What a good way to get rid of feat taxes. And (I know this is blasphemy, but Devil's Advocate) you don't have to put the +2 into Intelligence. You could put it into CON to cover your bad Fortitude Save, give you 1 more HP, and buff your Concentration skill.

3. The Skills. This is why I personally'd use Human Paragon. Sure, 3 wizard skills would be utilized (Knowledge: Arcana, Spellcraft, Concentration), but here's where I can grab oddball skills that occasionally are flat-out useful. Iaijutsu Focus, Use Magic & Psionic Device, Martial Lore (fits excellently with a Combat Wizard/Human Paragon/Abjurant Champion/Jade Phoenix Mage/Spellsword/Knight Phantom), and even basic skillmonkey skills normally unavailable to Wizard are now at your disposal. Is it the same as Rogue 1? No. But it can be a fair substitute.

4. Not a strong point here, but free martial weapon proficiency, light armor, and the rest of Simple. Makes entering the oddball Wizard-Requires-Greatsword-To-Have-1/2 BAB-Pure-Casting PrC or Abjurant Champion.