New Party Member? [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

AngryHobbit

2013-04-12, 01:01 PM

story based on D&D 3.5 =\= game in D&D 3.5.

I opened a similar thread some time ago. And came to conclusion that we probably won't have a replacement for Durkon.
Adding a new character so late in the story is a perfect "Scrappy" recipe.
They need a healer but there is no good enough substitute:
Of existing characters, O-Chul has low charisma = can't cast Lay of hands
Leeky Windstaff is a druid, but he really has no reason to join OotS.
Hinjo has his people to lead, so, even though he will probably help them, I doubt he will become new party member.
Lien - I don't know.
Celia so far used elemental magic, don't know if she can heal.
I can't remember, is Serini a rogue or a ranger? She may still be alive. Dorukan was alive prior to the beginning of the story, and halflings live longer (of course, if Xykon didn't kill her in order to obtain her diary). She sounds like the best choice to me if she's a ranger.

Antipode

2013-04-12, 01:25 PM

Given Belkar's currently abysmal Constitution, I wouldn't be surprised if this story arc is where he snuffs it. If that's the case, the Order of the Stick're presumably on their way to Kraagor's Gate next, where O-Chul and Lien are - picking up two Paladins as replacement party members that "kind of" fill Belkar and Durkon's roles (DPS and Healing at least, though both not as well, and if O-Chul can't tank I'll be a monkey's uncle) when they're going the same direction and've explicitly said they know to contact the Order if they see Xykon or other dicey action going down doesn't sound too unlikely to me.

Procyonpi

2013-04-12, 01:30 PM

Clearly, the new party member will be

PSTEVE! The totally cool Psion who just joined the party!

rodneyAnonymous

2013-04-12, 01:55 PM

Unless Belkar dies (or something), O-Chul can't join the party: paladins can't knowingly associate with evil characters. (Hinjo had a degree-of-separation-in-command excuse.)

Mike Havran

2013-04-12, 02:09 PM

Serini was a rogue, so no healing either. There are Hilgya and Cleric of Loki, but I doubt either of them will join.

My guess is that "Durkon" will join them in his vampiric form. His death was too tough to be reversed soon, and it will bring an interesting possibility for developement.

There is also a possibility that a group of several new characters will temporarily ally and travel with the Order. It's not like there won't be any new characters introduced in the next arc.

Olinser

2013-04-12, 02:12 PM

Unless Belkar dies (or something), O-Chul can't join the party: paladins can't knowingly associate with evil characters. (Hinjo had a degree-of-separation-in-command excuse.)

That could be fudged by Roy's excuse to the Deva - Belkar is a prisoner on a work-release program, and Roy (and O-Chul) are his jailors.

So O-chul isn't 'associating' with him. He's imprisoning him.

Semantics, I know, but O-Chul has shown he's much more willing to bend a bit on the Paladin code than Miko was.

After all, he forgave Belkar for literally tossing him to the wolves. I don't think anybody would have blinked if O-Chul had cut him in half the second he saw him.

AngryHobbit

2013-04-12, 02:25 PM

Serini was a rogue, so no healing either. There are Hilgya and Cleric of Loki, but I doubt either of them will join.

Well Hilgya maybe won't join them, but Durkon is returning to the Dwarven lands soon, so there's a slight possibility that we might see her again.

Olinser

2013-04-12, 02:30 PM

Well Hilgya maybe won't join them, but Durkon is returning to the Dwarven lands soon, so there's a slight possibility that we might see her again.

He's going to return and find out that Hilgya gave birth to his love child. Hilgya's husband will demand satisfaction, and this will result in a war between 2 dwarven clans, bringing the prophecized death and destruction.

AngryHobbit

2013-04-12, 02:38 PM

He's going to return and find out that Hilgya gave birth to his love child. Hilgya's husband will demand satisfaction, and this will result in a war between 2 dwarven clans, bringing the prophecized death and destruction.

TO WAR!!! ALL HAIL IVAN THE SPIRIT CRUSHER!!! :smallbiggrin:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0083.html

rodneyAnonymous

2013-04-12, 04:18 PM

That could be fudged by Roy's excuse to the Deva...

Roy is a fighter; I don't think that excuse would fly very far for a paladin.

EmperorSarda

2013-04-12, 05:27 PM

Why can't vampire Durkon be the new party member? It's prophetized that he will return home posthumously, so once the gate explodes and Malack realizes the sheer importance of resisting Xykon, then he releases Durkon from Thrallhood and Durkon rejoins the party.

Amphiox

2013-04-12, 06:13 PM

Serini was a rogue, so no healing either.

Serini was a rogue who was thinking about multi-classing to Paladin. In the intervening time it is possible she could have gained quite a few levels in Paladin.

But in terms of party-role, Serini fit more as a replacement for Belkar (if he gets snuffed soon) than Durkon.

And O'Chul could also freely join the Order AFTER Belkar's possibly imminent demise.

But of course O'Chul would be no better a healer than a hypothetical multi-classed Serini.

Procyonpi

2013-04-12, 06:49 PM

Serini was a rogue who was thinking about multi-classing to Paladin. In the intervening time it is possible she could have gained quite a few levels in Paladin.

But in terms of party-role, Serini fit more as a replacement for Belkar (if he gets snuffed soon) than Durkon.

And O'Chul could also freely join the Order AFTER Belkar's possibly imminent demise.

But of course O'Chul would be no better a healer than a hypothetical multi-classed Serini.

Considering that he started as a fighter who took charisma a dump stat, he could very well have NO healing. He has no lay on hands and quite possibly no spellcasting if he doesn't have enough levels, as his lack of paladin mount might indicate.

Olinser

2013-04-12, 07:00 PM

Considering that he started as a fighter who took charisma a dump stat, he could very well have NO healing. He has no lay on hands and quite possibly no spellcasting if he doesn't have enough levels, as his lack of paladin mount might indicate.

Not necessarily. O-chul hasn't been in any situation where a mount would really come in handy - and when he was Xykon's prisoner, it appears as though the mounts are summoned through an item (*cough* POKEBALL *cough) that was presumably taken from him.

137beth

2013-04-13, 12:40 AM

Really? I'm the first one to mention that as a rogue, Serini could use UMD?

Still, it is probably more likely that Durkon will join than Serini, but still, no one mentioned it already:smalltongue:

Forikroder

2013-04-13, 12:59 AM

in all honesty heres waht i expect to happen

Tarquin doesnt want the gate, hes smart enough to know that Gate will kill anyone who tries to hold it (not directly but holding it is painting a target on your back)

he knows Nale is dumb enough and Roy is competent enough that the OoTS isnt going to die anytime soon

he has a plan, something that KilKil is in on

i see 2 scenarios

1. Tarquin is in cahoots with the IFCC and there master plan finally gets revealed, this pisses of Malack and the LG - Tarquin and KilKil join the OoTS to fight Tarquin and the IFCC team evil arrives, one giant free for all, once the dust settles Durkon is a free man again learns protection from daylight and the OoTS continues the adventure with Durkon enduring the curse until the adventure is over (que character development)

2. Tarquin secret plan is actually an anti- team evil plan and once team evil arrives the LG and the OoTS join and once the dust settles same deal with Durkon

quite frankyl i cant imagine Durkon actually leaving the story at this point with so little attention made to him

hymie

2013-04-13, 08:50 AM

Kish

2013-04-13, 08:54 AM

1. I thought it was accepted that yes, Belkar is going to die.

I wish.

2. Doesn't Belkar's lead shield provide plausible deniability?
Funnily enough, the rule does not say, "Paladins cannot associate with anyone they have Detected Evil on, but are free to associate with anyone they have not Detected Evil on, regardless of how blatantly evil that person may be." Plausible deniability is a courtroom concept. Someone who tries to argue for being Lawful Good, much less for being a paladin, by technicalities is Lawful Neutral at best.

Forikroder

2013-04-13, 09:19 AM

id argue taht considering Belakrs current pretend character growth thats turning into not so pretend character growth a Paladin would be able to group with him

rodneyAnonymous

2013-04-13, 04:35 PM

For one thing, Belkar doesn't have the lead sheet anymore, and for another, while Detect Evil might tell someone who doesn't know him that he's evil, no spell would be necessary to someone who actually spends any time with him.

Kish

2013-04-13, 05:16 PM

Much less to O-Chul--remember, "I will gut you with my hands" O-Chul?

...not that a paladin would be a better healer than a bard anyway, even a single-classed paladin. This isn't World of Warcraft.

brionl

2013-04-13, 06:03 PM

Serini was a rogue who was thinking about multi-classing to Paladin. In the intervening time it is possible she could have gained quite a few levels in Paladin.

I'm pretty sure that (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html) was just a joke. On the lines of Elan wanting to multi-class to wizard.

VanaGalen

2013-04-13, 07:04 PM

I'm pretty sure that (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html) was just a joke. On the lines of Elan wanting to multi-class to wizard.

Exactly, it seems Serini (being chaotic herself) simply wanted to tease Soon a bit. Not to mention that rogue with only few levels in paladin has healing capabilities or par with Belkar, I suppose. Moreover since we last saw Serini (in crayons) ~100 years have passed. Serini might be too old for adventuring, if she's alive atm.

O-Chul doesn't have enough charisma for healing, but that's rather unusual for a paladin, so Lien probably can heal. And the Order will probably rendezvous with the paladins at some point. As for the paladin's moral dilemma of associating with Belkar, O-Chul didn't have that problem when making friends with baby-eating MitD. Belkar at least doesn't eat babies.

As for Durkon, he might rejoin the Order after he matures and is released from Malack's command. However, can Malack teach him his uber Protection from Daylight spell? Otherwise Durkon is tied to Malack even after he has his free will back.

I also would love to see Hilgya again. I always thought she had good potential that so far hasn't been developed. I can't really imagine her as the OotS healer, but after Zz'dtri great comeback I'm optimistic she might appear in the next arc.

AngryHobbit

2013-04-15, 03:01 AM

As for the paladin's moral dilemma of associating with Belkar, O-Chul didn't have that problem when making friends with baby-eating MitD. Belkar at least doesn't eat babies.

MitD doesn't eat babies. And "at least" argument doesn't change the fact that Belkie kills people for fun. And O-Chul knows that. Anyway O-Chul strikes me as more flexible than other Paladins, so maybe that wouldn't be so much of a problem.

Moreover since we last saw Serini (in crayons) ~100 years have passed. Serini might be too old for adventuring, if she's alive atm.

It's 66 years ago. OOTS considered that Girard could still be alive, which they wouldn't if it was ~100 ago. And Xykon is around Dorukan's age. Halflings live longer than humans, although I'm not sure how much longer. I guess she would be around Tarquin's age in halfling years.

Mike Havran

2013-04-15, 04:03 AM

Souju

2013-04-15, 04:27 AM

AngryHobbit

2013-04-15, 05:43 AM

Something tells me there's more to the Serini issue than being dead or alive...
Remember how Xykon dealt with two of the Scribble members he ran in to...
Something terrible happened to Serini, but it may not be as simple as Xykon killing her.

I didn't say she isn't dead, i said she wouldn't be that much old if she's alive. It's possible she is some kind of Halflingstein now.

Mastikator

2013-04-15, 06:18 AM

No time for a new recruit, team Xykon and team Nale are on the OotS's heels and they're close to finding the gate. Their best chance is to play the two evils against each other. Even so, only Elan has an happy ending, which means they win and Haley probably lives, Belkar is toast for sure, Roy and V have no guarantee that they'll survive this ordeal. Roy has already died once, V might even welcome death.
Things are looking grim for the OotS.

Olinser

2013-04-15, 07:24 AM

MitD doesn't eat babies. And "at least" argument doesn't change the fact that Belkie kills people for fun. And O-Chul knows that. Anyway O-Chul strikes me as more flexible than other Paladins, so maybe that wouldn't be so much of a problem.

It's 66 years ago. OOTS considered that Girard could still be alive, which they wouldn't if it was ~100 ago. And Xykon is around Dorukan's age. Halflings live longer than humans, although I'm not sure how much longer. I guess she would be around Tarquin's age in halfling years.

Well, halflings do live a bit longer than humans. By the rules, the absolute maximum a halfling can live to is 200 years old (by the book, humans can only live to 110).

However, halflings reach Venerable age at 100, so Serini is almost certainly venerable, and will take a -6 to str, dex, and con. If she is a straight rogue, that's a pretty hefty penalty.

MReav

2013-04-15, 08:29 AM

I wouldn't mind Hilgya. I think she might join because I like to believe that she might have screwed up feelings for Durkon after their relationship, and even if she's mad, she can't stand seeing him like he is. She'd rather him be the man she remembered, even if she'd rather him dead.

TRH

2013-04-15, 09:20 AM

Since it hasn't come up yet, there's the obligatory Right-Eye's daughter speculation. Who knows what class she could be, it might be something interesting.

skim172

2013-04-15, 11:55 AM

It's 66 years ago. OOTS considered that Girard could still be alive, which they wouldn't if it was ~100 ago. And Xykon is around Dorukan's age. Halflings live longer than humans, although I'm not sure how much longer. I guess she would be around Tarquin's age in halfling years.

According to Start of Darkness, Xykon is over 105 years old, so I doubt Dorukan was his contemporary.

66 years ago seems kind of short. We know Shojo was a young child when Soon was very ancient. And I don't think it's unreasonable to assume Shojo was at least 60 years old. Which would suggest Soon had at most 10 years to put together his merry band of paladins and launch them on their fun-filled "kill all goblins and purge the memory of the rift from collective memory" crusade.

Also, Redcloak is about 60 or so, and it was implied that he inherited the Crimson Mantle after multiple previous redcloaks were killed.

I think the "66 years" was chosen primarily because of Dorukan - he was alive a few years back and as a human, his lifespan is relatively short. If he was in his 20's during the Era of the Scribble, he'd have been into his 80's by the time Xykon toasted him. Soon and Girard are dead, and Lirian and Serini have long lifespans. I personally feel that had this been set at least a hundred years ago, it would've felt more natural. But that's just me.

Olinser

2013-04-15, 01:31 PM

According to Start of Darkness, Xykon is over 105 years old, so I doubt Dorukan was his contemporary.

66 years ago seems kind of short. We know Shojo was a young child when Soon was very ancient. And I don't think it's unreasonable to assume Shojo was at least 60 years old. Which would suggest Soon had at most 10 years to put together his merry band of paladins and launch them on their fun-filled "kill all goblins and purge the memory of the rift from collective memory" crusade.

Also, Redcloak is about 60 or so, and it was implied that he inherited the Crimson Mantle after multiple previous redcloaks were killed.

I think the "66 years" was chosen primarily because of Dorukan - he was alive a few years back and as a human, his lifespan is relatively short. If he was in his 20's during the Era of the Scribble, he'd have been into his 80's by the time Xykon toasted him. Soon and Girard are dead, and Lirian and Serini have long lifespans. I personally feel that had this been set at least a hundred years ago, it would've felt more natural. But that's just me.

Shojo was at least eighty years old. Roy specifically refers to him as an Octogenarian.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0408.html

With regards to lifespan.. halfling lifespan isn't THAT long. Purely by rules, Venerable is 100, with a +5d20 for max age. I think the author set it up so that Serini is still alive. 100 years ago, and figuring she was 30 or 40 when it started, that would put her in the 'incredibly aged' category.

Even with only 66 years, if she's still alive, Serini is already into the Venerable category. And as a rogue, that puts a heavy dent in her combat capabilities.

Olinser

2013-04-15, 01:36 PM

If she is alive, that is. Xykon had to get his hands on her most secret diary somehow, and since it's Xykon, he most likely turned into ashes everything that stood in his way.

I covered this in a different thread.

Serini is evil, and gave him the diary as plausibly deniability.

Serini is the evil mastermind behind everything, mark my words!

rodneyAnonymous

2013-04-15, 01:41 PM

Shojo was at least eighty years old. Roy specifically refers to him as an Octogenarian.

Yeah and Belkar says he's a billion years old. That isn't evidence. Roy has no way of knowing how old Shojo was.

Kinda like when someone uses a gendered pronoun for V: it doesn't reveal anything except what the speaker thinks.

Reathin

2013-04-15, 04:19 PM

Obviously it'll be Xykon that joins. He gets a message from Tsukiko while on the Astral plane, momentarily separated from Redcloak. She tells him what happened and that RC's betraying him. Xykon, realizing that his (un)life draws him inevitably to betrayal, immediately decides to join the side of Good, and the only good guys he's met in about a century that he hasn't also obliterated would be the Order of the Stick.

It's so clear, it must be true!

skim172

2013-04-15, 05:02 PM

Shojo was at least eighty years old. Roy specifically refers to him as an Octogenarian.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0408.html

With regards to lifespan.. halfling lifespan isn't THAT long. Purely by rules, Venerable is 100, with a +5d20 for max age. I think the author set it up so that Serini is still alive. 100 years ago, and figuring she was 30 or 40 when it started, that would put her in the 'incredibly aged' category.

Even with only 66 years, if she's still alive, Serini is already into the Venerable category. And as a rogue, that puts a heavy dent in her combat capabilities.

Then we've got a continuity problem. Because Shojo was definitely a young child (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html) when an aged Soon handed over command of the Sapphire Guard. If Shojo was at least 80, then 66 years ago, when Soon first encounters the Snarl (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html), Shojo was at least 14. That seems to be stretching the characterization as "a boy learning at my father's knee" and he certainly doesn't look like a teenager in the strip. But maybe he just entered his growth spurt really, really late in life - but that still would require that the entire Chronicles of the Scribble happened in a very short period. The Order of the Scribble discovered the rifts, sealed them, and built the gates, and Soon formed the Sapphire Guard, launched a crusade, and removed all knowledge of the rifts from recorded history - and also went entirely gray. I think it's very improbable that all that happened within a year or so.

So Shojo was at least 14 years old when Soon discovered the first rift, and if we go with the not unreasonable assumption that from the discovery of the gates to Soon's death was a period of at least 10 years, then Shojo would've been well into his 20's by the time Soon died. But Shojo says he was just a small boy at the time. So how could Shojo be 80 now, but just a small boy about 50-60 years ago?

There is only one possible answer to this quandary:

Shojo is a TIME WIZARD.

It explains everything.

martianmister

2013-04-15, 05:14 PM

Then we've got a continuity problem...

Already pointed out:

Yeah and Belkar says he's a billion years old. That isn't evidence. Roy has no way of knowing how old Shojo was.

Kinda like when someone uses a gendered pronoun for V: it doesn't reveal anything except what the speaker thinks.

brionl

2013-04-15, 07:37 PM

Since it hasn't come up yet, there's the obligatory Right-Eye's daughter speculation. Who knows what class she could be, it might be something interesting.

The last time we saw her in Start of Darkness was 3 years before the first strip. She was a prepubescent child then, so she is still too young to be a high enough level adventurer to be any use to the Order.

TRH

2013-04-15, 07:43 PM

The last time we saw her in Start of Darkness was 3 years before the first strip. She was a prepubescent child then, so she is still too young to be a high enough level adventurer to be any use to the Order.

Goblins age even faster than humans, so she may be older than we'd expect. She'd still be pretty young, but it's not impossible for her to be mid-teens now. Still, you're probably right, I forgot she was noticeably younger than the one who wanted to be a wizard. It's just that I don't expect that plot thread to be forgotten forever and sillier things have come up already.

AngryHobbit

2013-04-16, 05:12 AM

Since it hasn't come up yet, there's the obligatory Right-Eye's daughter speculation. Who knows what class she could be, it might be something interesting.

It's obvious. Paladin.

Unisus

2013-04-16, 05:27 AM

Shojo is a TIME WIZARD.

He was hit by some haste-spells?

On the Paladins joining the OotS: wouldn't it be against their oath if they joined the OotS directly on a quest meddling with the other gates?

Kish

2013-04-16, 07:13 AM

As Hinjo said, with the Sapphire gone, the Sapphire Guard and their oath no longer exist. It would no more be against any part of their beliefs to accompany the Order to a Gate than it is for O-Chul and Lien to go to Kraagor's Gate.

The only in-character reason no paladins of the Sapphire Guard accompanied the Order to Girard's Gate, is that they thought Roy's diplomatic interactions with Girard would be easier in their absence.