Nale and the Ritual

[EmperorSarda]

I'm slightly confused at how Nale knows about Xykon's ritual at all. I doubt Xykon or Redcloak deigned to tell hired lackeys about their master plan, so is Nale's assumptions about the rituals to control the gate all on what the Order and Shojo assumed that Xykon had (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0278.html)?

[martianmister]

Probably yes (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0378.html).

[Kish]

I'm slightly confused at how Nale knows about Xykon's ritual at all.
Moronic as Nale undoubtedly is, I doubt he's under the impression he knows more about how to control the Gate than, "I better claim I know how to control the Gate or at least how to get the information from Xykon, or Malack will kill me right now."

[Water_Bear]

Nale, immediately after learning about the Gates in 378, says of it "With that kind of power, I could hold the whole world hostage to my whims!"

He would probably prefer to have a ritual to control the Snarl, but in it's absence just sitting on a big Self-Destruct button for the planet playing King-of-the-Hill is already good enough for him.

The funny thing is, as Nale's plans go this sort of thing would be pretty typical. MAD is actually a pretty sound doctrine for keeping people out of your business if they think you're crazy enough to push the button but reasonable enough to talk to. But narratively speaking these Blofeld plans never ever work, and it also relies on the Linear Guild to be powerful enough to grab the thing solo in the first place. Logically sound plan based on insights into human behavior + complete lack of genre savvy + vast overestimation of his own abilities = LG status quo.

[137beth]

Moronic as Nale undoubtedly is, I doubt he's under the impression he knows more about how to control the Gate than, "I better claim I know how to control the Gate or at least how to get the information from Xykon, or Malack will kill me right now."

Even before that, he assumed that there was a way to control the gate purely because he assumed Xykon wouldn't have wanted to destroy himself, and he assumed he would figure out what it was because he thinks he is smarter than Xykon. He never considered that whatever method Xykon has might require a more powerful caster than Nale. He also (though this is not because of Nale's own stupidity) doesn't know that Xykon only found out about the ritual through a goblin with an artifact, and that there is no way he could possibly get it.

[Sniffnoy]

Nale doesn't even necessarily know that Xykon's headed towards Girard's Gate. He knows the Order wanted to go there, because Roy said so, but does he know the Order wanted to go there because the Oracle told them that was where Xykon was heading? Not necessarily.

Indeed, he's probably hoping Xykon *isn't* heading there, because if Xykon were to show up, why would he help out Nale or Tarquin? Nale made it sound like Xykon is maybe a friend who would help, but he isn't.

Simply put, it was a bluff to gain time, and Nale has probably been thinking about how he'll be able to get out of this once he defeats the Order. (Maybe say, "OK, I'm going to go find Xykon now" and just never return? Well, not return with Xykon, at any rate -- I guess Nale would hardly stand for his father gaining control of the gate.)

(Of course, his original plan, before Tarquin found him out, probably would have required Xykon to show up as well... but there's a good chance he simply wasn't thinking that far ahead, or figuring he should at least locate the gate before worrying about the next step.)

[Jay R]

Moronic as Nale undoubtedly is, I doubt he's under the impression he knows more about how to control the Gate than, "I better claim I know how to control the Gate or at least how to get the information from Xykon, or Malack will kill me right now."

Tarquin: And you know this ritual?
Nale: No, but I know who does. I've worked with them before. You won't get it without my help. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0821.html)

I'm looking forward to Nale trying to get help from Xykon based on working for him before.

Nale: You remember, I helped you against Roy Greenhilt in Dorukan's dungeon.
Xykon: Against who?
Nale: Greenhilt! Roy Greenhilt!
Xykon: Doesn't ring a bell.

[Rogar Demonblud]

A better question might be, would Xykon even remember Nale? "We're lucky he remembers his name," after all.

[VanaGalen]

I think Nale knows that such ritual exists but doesn't really know anything else about it. He couldn't had learned it from Shojo, as neither Shojo nor the Order knew about the ritual.
Xykon hired Nale as some discount 2nd class villain, so I doubt he shared with Nale his plans and knowledge about the ritual (which is pretty incomplete by itself). They didn't even share a single panel of evil scheming or anything of that sort.

I think that whatever Nale knows, he learned it from IFCC through Sabine. Sabine's reaction in the strip mentioned above seems to point in that direction. Probably there's also good amount of bluff in what he said, Nale needs a lot of that to keep Malack from killing him.

[Procyonpi]

I do actually think that Nale's enough of an egomaniac to think that he can figure out how to control the gate. He's not that bright.

[glissle]

I do actually think that Nale's enough of an egomaniac to think that he can figure out how to control the gate. He's not that bright.
Hey, he might have a high Charisma and a maxed-out Use Magic Device skill - that's what it takes to control a magic item, right? :smallamused:

[Procyonpi]

Hey, he might have a high Charisma and a maxed-out Use Magic Device skill - that's what it takes to control a magic item, right? :smallamused:

lol. But seriously, he's been pursuing the gate since before he needed a convenient excuse for Malack, so that means that either he thinks that:
1. He, as a poorly-multiclassed mid-level spellcaster, can figure out how to control an incredibly powerful world-munching artifact, which is incredibly egotistical and stupid, or
2.Based on his status as an ex-minion who failed the job he was hired for, he can convince an epic-level lich sorcerer to give him the key to stealing his Macguffin, which, if possible, is even stupider.

[Shred-Bot]

2.Based on his status as an ex-minion who failed the job he was hired for, he can convince an epic-level lich sorcerer to give him the key to stealing his Macguffin, which, if possible, is even stupider.

"Didn't I hire you like 900 strips ago to kill those guys over there who aren't dead?"

"Yes, but-"

"Meteor Swarm"

Is approximately how I'd expect any Xykon-Nale discussion to go at this point. (Followed by an Evasion and Nale eventually escaping with like 1 HP, since he never quite seems to die.)

[Olinser]

lol. But seriously, he's been pursuing the gate since before he needed a convenient excuse for Malack, so that means that either he thinks that:
1. He, as a poorly-multiclassed mid-level spellcaster, can figure out how to control an incredibly powerful world-munching artifact, which is incredibly egotistical and stupid, or
2.Based on his status as an ex-minion who failed the job he was hired for, he can convince an epic-level lich sorcerer to give him the key to stealing his Macguffin, which, if possible, is even stupider.

This IS Nale we're talking about.

In the latest strip he actually thinks he's a spellcaster on the level of Malack, Durkon and Z.

[EmperorSarda]

What surprises me is that Tarquin hasn't asked Nale who exactly he would be getting the ritual from.

Honestly, it isn't much distance to connect "Elan doesn't have enough time to spend more time with me due to a scenery chewing villain" and "Nale happens to be pursuing the same gate that Elan is, but Elan was looking for it while he thought Nale was dead" to "Hey, that scenery chewing villain and the guy Nale can get the ritual from might be one and the same!"

I know Tarquin doesn't want Nale to die, but he's being entirely too trusting in Nale.

[skim172]

What surprises me is that Tarquin hasn't asked Nale who exactly he would be getting the ritual from.

Honestly, it isn't much distance to connect "Elan doesn't have enough time to spend more time with me due to a scenery chewing villain" and "Nale happens to be pursuing the same gate that Elan is, but Elan was looking for it while he thought Nale was dead" to "Hey, that scenery chewing villain and the guy Nale can get the ritual from might be one and the same!"

I know Tarquin doesn't want Nale to die, but he's being entirely too trusting in Nale.

I doubt Tarquin actually trusts Nale, but his best option right now is to keep quiet and play along. He may suspect that Elan's evil guy and Nale's guy-I-know are the same people, but until that guy shows up, he might as well go along with Nale rather than twiddle his thumbs. He'll backstab the crap out of Nale when the time is right, but he gains nothing by voicing his suspicions now.

[Fish]

Tarquin must be smart enough to know the difference between "you'll never get the ritual without my help" and "you will get the ritual with my help."