Dishonest Pizza

[Tanuki Tales]

Are there any pizza places that are taking up the shady practice of removing cheese options (such as extra cheese) from the topping portions of their interactive menus while still considering selecting them as one of your topping options like Pizza Hut and Dominos does? I just really noticed it with the former when I got slammed an extra 2-3 bucks on one of those new extra cheesy pizzas ($17+ for a one topping? What the hell guys, that's a solid twenty when you include tip. I can get it way cheaper than that rip off elsewhere) with Pizza Hut (I had noticed that Dominos does it, but with their $7.99 2 topping pan pizza deal, it doesn't hurt my wallet near as much so I overlooked it).

Suffice to say, that's the last thing I'm ever paying Pizza Hut for, especially since the Dominos' pan pizza is exactly as good, if not better, than Pizza Hut's and incredibly cheaper.

[thubby]

im guessing cheese has gotten more expensive?

it's hardly shady to stop offering deals that are no longer profitable.

[Tanuki Tales]

im guessing cheese has gotten more expensive?

it's hardly shady to stop offering deals that are no longer profitable.

No, that's not what I said.

They actively gave Cheese a separate section alongside sauce and don't include it on the toppings section or show it as a topping.

But they still count it as a topping, without informing you of that anywhere until you notice that your price is a good deal higher than it should be.

[JoshL]

I'm always in favor of local pizza shops rather than chains. You can find much better pizza, but it does take some work finding the good ones.

That said, extra cheese usually counts as two toppings, as thubby said, it's probably a lot less cost effective than stale pepperoni.

As an aside, "Dishonest Pizza" would be a great band name.

[Tanuki Tales]

I'm always in favor of local pizza shops rather than chains. You can find much better pizza, but it does take some work finding the good ones.

Does it ever. If they're cheap and good, chances are they aren't very clean. If they're clean and good, chances are they aren't very cheap. And if they're some happy medium, they probably don't deliver.


That said, extra cheese usually counts as two toppings, as thubby said, it's probably a lot less cost effective than stale pepperoni.

Oh, the price hasn't increased or anything. Extra cheese is considered a single topping and is charged the same as any other single topping. But since the menu and order read out is specifically set up so that it is never, once, referred to as a topping but is still charged as a topping, they're sneaking in a stealth charge on you when you logically think "Hey, I guess they don't consider it a topping anymore" and order more toppings than the price bracket allows. That's what's grinding my gears.

[thubby]

I'm always in favor of local pizza shops rather than chains. You can find much better pizza, but it does take some work finding the good ones.


this seems to get less true the farther from the coast you get.

[JoshL]

Oh, yeah, doubly tough if you're hung up on "clean". The best pizza comes from dirty holes-in-the-wall! I do get your gripe about stealth charges though, but at least now you know!

Also, thubby, as someone who loves chicago style and abhors new york style, I'm inclined to disagree with you there ;-)

[Palanan]

I've long since grown sick of pizza joints, big chain or local, for the sort of thing Tanuki is talking about, as well as a lot of other rude, entitled behavior. My local Pizza Hut in particular has an amazing ability to frack up my order, often doing the exact opposite of what I've asked them. Sometimes the managers listen to my complaints and offer a refund, but more often they don't care.

The local pizza places are no better. I once spent fifteen angry minutes on the phone with the manager of a local joint, owing to the behavior of his delivery driver. We went 'round and 'round, but the manager just didn't care. Didn't apologize, didn't care.

So, I no longer order pizza, period. I make my own. Homemade pizza is far cheaper, much healthier, and tastes like real food. Always hot out of the oven, loaded with whatever you want. And it's one less delivery driver running red lights.

[Ravens_cry]

Amen. The very best pizza is the one you make yourself, and is probably less expensive to boot! My own personal favourite is a home made sauce on a pita bread with cheddar cheese, onion sliced really thin, green pepper, ham, black olives, and still more cheddar cheese. Brush your teeth after, but so good.

[Tanuki Tales]

So.

My last Pizza Hut pizza ever was terribly mediocre. I regret paying the $20 for it.

But this is a good thing because it made me realize I am sick and tired of take-out, fast food and restaurant food (with exceptions made for my local Inn and places like Kobei's, Fogo de Chao's and maybe Hibachi Grill) for the whole entirety of it all.

From now on, I'm going to just make more of my own food and buy grocery store foods that while mediocre, are freaking dirt cheap.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Ravens_cry
Amen. The very best pizza is the one you make yourself....

Preach it, brother!

Pita bread makes excellent homemade pizzas. I also like wheat flatbreads. I'll let you have all the olives and onions; saves room for my sauteed portobellos, and that sweet Italian sausage from Trader Joe's.

I worked out the prices once, and a homemade pita-pizza probably runs you about $2.50 or so. That's more of a lunch-sized portion, though. A slightly larger flatbread with fancified toppings might run into the $4.00-5.00 range.

.

[JoshL]

If you want to get hardcore, learn to make your own dough. My girlfriend does (and bakes bread from scratch). It's not easy and she has years of experience with it, but the end result is absolutely amazing. And learn enough food chemistry and you can learn to make exactly the sort of crust that you want to make. (I obviously feel that pizza is all about the crust)

More work than I can really put into food, but definitely awesome!

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by JoshL
If you want to get hardcore, learn to make your own dough.

Making your own dough is indeed the next great step on the path of pizza enlightenment. I have not yet traveled so far.

However, for those who like shortcuts to enlightenment, some stores have gobs of pizza dough that you can buy and knead out at home.


Originally Posted by JoshL
I obviously feel that pizza is all about the crust....

Sauce, crust, cheese. The foundations of the Pizza Force they are.

:smalltongue:

[Winter_Wolf]

Making dough for pizza crust is difficult? :smallconfused: News to me, and I'm not exactly a great cook. I do like a good homemade pizza. It also allows toppings that aren't "normal"; then again I'm still amazed that anyone would consider anchovies a proper pizza topping.

That said, I'll eat me a frozen pizza no problem. Usually we just do take n' bakes like Papa Murphy's if it's not a frozen one, though. I'd probably go into withdrawals from the (lack of) preservatives if I went too long without eating the frozen kind. :smalltongue:

[Ravens_cry]

Well, if you don't know or don't have time to make your own crust, you can still make a more than decent pizza and try your own toppings by using a bought crust or even a tortilla or pita as a crust. I like to grill them a bit before flipping and adding toppings on the other side.

[thubby]

Well, if you don't know or don't have time to make your own crust, you can still make a more than decent pizza and try your own toppings by using a bought crust or even a tortilla or pita as a crust. I like to grill them a bit before flipping and adding toppings on the other side.

if you decide to use an already cooked bread product, be sure to use olive oil to keep the crust from going soggy on you.

[THAC0]

I make pizza (entirely) from scratch quite often.

However, when I order pizza, I do so online. Extra cheese has always been listed under toppings from the usual two (papa johns and dominos). Pizza hut won't deliver so I don't peruse their deals as thoroughly.

[Talanic]

I work for a local pizza chain, myself. Glass Nickel, here in Wisconsin.

We're clean. We're really, really good. But yeah, at over $20 for a large specialty pizza, we're not that cheap.

[PlusSixPelican]

As I live on a hill, I tend not to get delivered from people -who are in my range-. On top of pizza debacles (during a 'driver strike' we got our pies sideways, an hour late, and cold.)

The only success I've had is fleeting, so what we do at my house is have someone pick it up from the place.

This also happens with FedEx, where they will pin the notice on our door in the morning instead of even bringing the package to our door.

[Shadow of the Sun]

Making your own dough is a lot easier than you might think. You don't need to knead it, really; just make a loose dough and let it cold ferment for 24 hours. It's longer than it'd take for a delivery, but you could make a dough, let it sit, and then make some hella good pizza the next day.

A finely crafted and elegant link about pizza dough. (http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2012/07/the-pizza-lab-three-doughs-to-know.html) Anything on that site labeled 'The Pizza Lab' is generally really good for helping you make your own pizza, too.

Now, if you're a really hardcore pizza lover, make your own woodfired oven. :smallwink:

[GnomeFighter]

Does it ever. If they're cheap and good, chances are they aren't very clean. If they're clean and good, chances are they aren't very cheap. And if they're some happy medium, they probably don't deliver.

Misquoting the great Colin chapman, cheap, clean, good. Pick two.

Personally I disagree with this idea of "make your own. It tastes better". I make a very good pizza, but it is completely different to takeaway pizza. In the same way that (good) restaurant pizza is different again to both.

Personally I would find a good clean place and just pay the extra. I'd rather have something I enjoy whatever the cost (within reason). Unfortunately I have never found a good place in the UK outside London.

I so want to go to the US for a "junk food" tour. You guys do the best unhealthy food! Proper BBQ, deep pizza pies, huge NY style pizza, massive sandwiches that are more than just something to eat at your desk at work... Nom nom nom.

[TuggyNE]

If you want to get hardcore, learn to make your own dough. My girlfriend does (and bakes bread from scratch). It's not easy and she has years of experience with it, but the end result is absolutely amazing. And learn enough food chemistry and you can learn to make exactly the sort of crust that you want to make. (I obviously feel that pizza is all about the crust)

More work than I can really put into food, but definitely awesome!

It's not that hard. Honestly, it's only a little bit trickier than making Hamburger Helper or Rice-a-Roni or something.

Definitely easier than, say, making pies — a skill which I largely mastered the basics of, but for some reason haven't been exercising lately? Pie crust is super-annoying, though.


Making your own dough is a lot easier than you might think. You don't need to knead it, really; just make a loose dough and let it cold ferment for 24 hours. It's longer than it'd take for a delivery, but you could make a dough, let it sit, and then make some hella good pizza the next day.

That may well be, but I've found kneading perfectly acceptable. (And a lot faster, obviously, though rising it still takes an hour or whatever.) Just make sure to punch with the heel of your hand, and everything should work out. :smallsmile:


Personally I disagree with this idea of "make your own. It tastes better". I make a very good pizza, but it is completely different to takeaway pizza. In the same way that (good) restaurant pizza is different again to both.

Oh, there's definitely a difference, no two ways about it, but I do prefer homemade pizza. Perhaps because really, I just want soft thick crust, cheese, a tiny bit of sauce, and maybe a bit of extra meat. What can I say, I'm a guy with simple tastes. :smallbiggrin:

[Traab]

My homemade pizza involves splitting a roll of french bread in half, adding on some homemade marinara sauce, slices of pepperoni, some seasoned hamburger crumbles, and enough cheese to hold it all together but not pour over the sides and make a mess. When I order out, its usually an unusual pizza, like I just ordered a philly cheese steak pizza. That was so freaking amazing! No sauce, but the peppers, mushrooms, steak, cheese and pizza crust was just freaking divine with a bit of salt added to it.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Ravens_cry
I like to grill them a bit before flipping and adding toppings on the other side.

True this. We've converged on the same pizza wavelength.


Originally Posted by Shadow of the Sun
Now, if you're a really hardcore pizza lover, make your own woodfired oven.

I have thought about doing exactly this. I do love a woodfired crust. This would be my ideal.

Alas, there are other yard projects that must take precedence. It's April and I still haven't finished raking leaves.

:smalltongue:


Originally Posted by GnomeFighter
I so want to go to the US for a "junk food" tour. You guys do the best unhealthy food!

And we have the national health issues to prove it.

:smallfrown:

[Tanuki Tales]

However, when I order pizza, I do so online. Extra cheese has always been listed under toppings from the usual two (papa johns and dominos). Pizza hut won't deliver so I don't peruse their deals as thoroughly.

No, Dominos does it too. I boycotted them for years because of how crappy their pizza always was, to the point that one of my catch phrases was, "Nothing is worse than Dominos; no, not even cafeteria pizza or ellios". But when they got that pan pizza I was, "might as well give them another chance". Their online menu separates cheese from toppings just like Pizza Hut's does.

[Palanan]

Owing entirely to this thread, I decided I had to do some pizza experimentation for lunch today.

The variable component du jour: wheat sandwich wraps. Very close to the minimum viable thickness for a pizza crust. Some would say it runs much too far up the asymptote towards the theoretical minimum crust; I call it an intriguing option for a novel performance envelope.

First pizza: crisped while flat, then overloaded with sauce, plus cheese and mushrooms. The verdict: tasty but unwieldy. Opens up interesting new avenues for research on the optimal crust-to-sauce relationship.

Second pizza: briefly crisped, then wrapped around sauce and cheese in more rational proportions. The verdict: on the first bite, I was less than impressed. Then I looked down again and realized it was all gone. Promising results for future grant proposals.

Conclusions: wheat sandwich wraps represent an intriguing new direction for fringe-pizza research. Also, never check the Playground right before lunch.

:smalltongue:

[Karoht]

No, that's not what I said.

They actively gave Cheese a separate section alongside sauce and don't include it on the toppings section or show it as a topping.

But they still count it as a topping, without informing you of that anywhere until you notice that your price is a good deal higher than it should be.When you order online, there is a subtotal and total on the confirmation screen. If something is amiss, go back through your choices. If a place charges for something they shouldn't, or charges too much for something, that right there is usually how you're going to figure it out. This is why I order online in the first place.

[WarKitty]

Owing entirely to this thread, I decided I had to do some pizza experimentation for lunch today.

The variable component du jour: wheat sandwich wraps. Very close to the minimum viable thickness for a pizza crust. Some would say it runs much too far up the asymptote towards the theoretical minimum crust; I call it an intriguing option for a novel performance envelope.

First pizza: crisped while flat, then overloaded with sauce, plus cheese and mushrooms. The verdict: tasty but unwieldy. Opens up interesting new avenues for research on the optimal crust-to-sauce relationship.

Second pizza: briefly crisped, then wrapped around sauce and cheese in more rational proportions. The verdict: on the first bite, I was less than impressed. Then I looked down again and realized it was all gone. Promising results for future grant proposals.

Conclusions: wheat sandwich wraps represent an intriguing new direction for fringe-pizza research. Also, never check the Playground right before lunch.

:smalltongue:

This sounds like it would lend itself well to the variant of the pizza panini.

[Eldan]

How do you make your own pizza? I've tried before, but the dough always tears before I get it even remotely pizza shaped. I always end up with some kind of weird tomato/cheese pie.

[Karen Lynn]

I work for a local pizza chain, myself. Glass Nickel, here in Wisconsin.

We're clean. We're really, really good. But yeah, at over $20 for a large specialty pizza, we're not that cheap.

Not cheap, but by The Nine, are y'all ever worth it! I order from the Oshkosh branch fairly regularly.

On pizza making, I worked at Sbarro's and Stuc's(local joint up north of me by a half hour). I know how to make pizza crust, and it's really not that hard. I usually split it, letting half cold ferment; having the dough ready for tomorrow, and the other half being kneaded for pizza for later.

[The-Mage-King]

It really depends on the dough you're using, I think.


I've made myself three pizza over the last few days, and all were...Not bad, but not the best. The crust's a bit bland, but that's only to be expected when there nothing but flour, yeast, a sprinkle of salt, and water in it.


What's the recipe you're using, Eldan?

[Don Julio Anejo]

Not cheap, but by The Nine, are y'all ever worth it! I order from the Oshkosh branch fairly regularly.
Shhh... it's by the Eight now, or the Thalmor are gonna get you.

[Karen Lynn]

Pfff. The Thalmor can try to get me. I'm the best archer-assassin the Khajiit have ever brought.

[Bhu]

I've long since grown sick of pizza joints, big chain or local, for the sort of thing Tanuki is talking about, as well as a lot of other rude, entitled behavior. My local Pizza Hut in particular has an amazing ability to frack up my order, often doing the exact opposite of what I've asked them. Sometimes the managers listen to my complaints and offer a refund, but more often they don't care.

The local pizza places are no better. I once spent fifteen angry minutes on the phone with the manager of a local joint, owing to the behavior of his delivery driver. We went 'round and 'round, but the manager just didn't care. Didn't apologize, didn't care.

So, I no longer order pizza, period. I make my own. Homemade pizza is far cheaper, much healthier, and tastes like real food. Always hot out of the oven, loaded with whatever you want. And it's one less delivery driver running red lights.

Having worked in pizza, if I may offer advice, managers knee jerk reaction is to assume that you're trying to scam them for free food. Mostly because people do it daily. If it's a chain, calling corporate headquarters often works better if you can't get anywhere with the manager because corporate is often far more concerned with customer service than the local manager who is often only making a dollar or two more on the hour than his employees. If the driver is misbehaving, calling the cops is a better idea than calling the manager. Drivers are hard to replace, and unless cornered the manager won't do so.

I second the suggestions on learning to make your own dough. It really is easy, and doesn't require a lot of work.

[Crow]

Support your FLPS (Friendly Local Pizza Shop).

Chain pizza is crap, and FLPS pizza supports your local community.

[WarKitty]

Having worked in pizza, if I may offer advice, managers knee jerk reaction is to assume that you're trying to scam them for free food. Mostly because people do it daily. If it's a chain, calling corporate headquarters often works better if you can't get anywhere with the manager because corporate is often far more concerned with customer service than the local manager who is often only making a dollar or two more on the hour than his employees. If the driver is misbehaving, calling the cops is a better idea than calling the manager. Drivers are hard to replace, and unless cornered the manager won't do so.

I second the suggestions on learning to make your own dough. It really is easy, and doesn't require a lot of work.

I've had better luck offering to return the pizza for my money back. Usually they will actually just give you money back/free pizza. My suspicion is that being willing to abandon your pizza makes you look less like a scammer, though...

[GnomeFighter]

And we have the national health issues to prove it.

:smallfrown:

Yes, but this is about who it affects ME. Far more important than the health of your country :smalltongue:


How do you make your own pizza? I've tried before, but the dough always tears before I get it even remotely pizza shaped. I always end up with some kind of weird tomato/cheese pie.

Sounds like a problem with your dough. It could be a number of things, but without more info it's difficult to tell. It could be lack of kneeding, meaning the gluten has not formed properly to give you enough stretch. It could be lack of water/too much flour on the surface. It could be that the dough is sticking to the surface you are working it on. It could be as simple as the way you are streching it.

Is there anything else wrong with the base? What recipy are you using?

[dehro]

americans are weird :smalltongue:

[Hyde]

I regularly cook my own pan pizzas (dangerous, because they're so wonderful that I just eat the whole thing). Frequently I use the Martha White "just add water" dough because it's not significantly different from what I would normally want, and is a lot cheaper and quicker.

prebake your crust slightly, add toppings to taste, bake... oh about seven to ten minutes.


Anyway, there's a bug with Dominos online ordering, at least around here.

Basically, your most expensive pizza is normal-priced, where your additional pizzas should be 8.99 for a large, and 7.99 for a medium. Any coupon you select will apply to the most expensive pizza. Don't know what's causing it, or even if those are hard and fast rules (I feel it was easier to exploit a few months ago), but we've been enjoying it.

[chrismorries]

Oh, yeah, doubly tough if you're hung up on "clean". The best pizza comes from dirty holes-in-the-wall! I do get your gripe about stealth charges though, but at least now you know!

[userpay]

Oh how I love my pizza. Whenever I make pizza from scratch I usually use this for the dough (http://allrecipes.com/recipe/jays-signature-pizza-crust/detail.aspx) and this excellent recipe for the sauce (http://allrecipes.com/recipe/exquisite-pizza-sauce/detail.aspx), minus the honey because I never have any around and minus the anchovy paste just because. I usually simmer the sauce briefly before I actually stick it on the pizza.

Lately though I've been getting some premade raw dough that's pretty good and is even freezable it seems.

[Hyde]

Is it super doughy? I usually go in for a crispy, crusty crust.

[Bhu]

I've had better luck offering to return the pizza for my money back. Usually they will actually just give you money back/free pizza. My suspicion is that being willing to abandon your pizza makes you look less like a scammer, though...

Yup.

Back in the early 90's when I was working for a chain whom I prolly cant mention, we had this deal where if we screwed up we replaced your order no questions asked. I was only an assistant manager than, but the supervisor (who works a circuit) couldn't figure out how our food cost had gone straight to hell. He asked me an I was pretty up front "It's the replacing pizza for free deal. People are basically ordering 4 large pizzas, claiming they're wrong somehow, and having us replace all 4. There are people doing it regularly every week. No one's telling you about it because the freebie idea is the owners and no one want to tell him he's wrong. You want the food cost to go back down tell them we'll remake their pizza if they return the bad one untouched. After all they're complaining it's burned black and inedible, yet they've eaten it before we get there with the next set of pies."

Took almost a year for it to change even after other people began pushing for it. By that time the managers were so burned out from dealing with scammers suddenly po'd because the well had run dry, they just assumed anyone calling to complain was lying. Most people promoted to manager are penny pinchers devoted to keeping costs down, and their bonus depends on how low they can keep them. So they generally take a dim view of complaints because that means someone in staff cost them money and they need to weasel their way out of this. It also means they regularly run the place under staffed. It's why I moved to mom and pop restaurants at the time, chains are dehumanizing.

My fave made the worlds biggest antipasto salad. We lined a large pizza box with foil and filled it with salad stuff (it was meant for 4 people). I think it was only 8-10 bucks at the time. OMG I got tired of making those...

[userpay]

Is it super doughy? I usually go in for a crispy, crusty crust.

To be honest its been awhile since I've made it. I don't recall it being doughy but then I also prefer thicker crusts, splitting the dough into two pizzas might be needed.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Crow
Support your FLPS (Friendly Local Pizza Shop).

It was the driver for my "friendly" local pizza joint who gave me such attitude that I called his manager, who made it plain he neither wanted nor cared about my business.

That pretty much put me off local pizza joints. The handful of others around here were pretty terrible anyway. I'd rather support my local grocery store.



Originally Posted by WarKitty
My suspicion is that being willing to abandon your pizza makes you look less like a scammer, though...

In a variety of situations, where managers offer to give me a refund or a free item, I usually decline--mainly because I'm usually trying to make a point about the quality of their service, and not taking the refund almost always gets their attention.

On the flip side, I'm a stickler about change. Most grocery stores are really good about this, but it's amazing how many chain drugstores will shortchange you.


Originally Posted by Bhu
So they generally take a dim view of complaints because that means someone in staff cost them money and they need to weasel their way out of this.

I don't doubt you for a moment...but this is deeply sad, for everyone involved.


Originally Posted by userpay
I usually simmer the sauce briefly before I actually stick it on the pizza.

Wow. --Did everyone but me already know this? This has to be my new pizza experiment.

*scribble scribble*

*graph graph*

*calculates enthalpy for marinara sauce*

[Tanuki Tales]

Does anyone know how to make a really good pan-style pizza?

And I mean like old school Pizza Hut, current Mama Ilardo's good.

[Shadow of the Sun]

Tanuki Tales:

I am, as always, your eternally faithful servant. (http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2013/01/the-pizza-lab-the-worlds-easiest-pizza-no-knead-no-stretch-pan-pizza.html)

[Bhu]

Y'know Pizza Hut used to be good back in the 70's. What the hell happened there?

[VeisuItaTyhjyys]

I don't really see why one would assume asking for "extra" anything will not incur an extra charge, unless I'm misunderstanding; as I understand, the original poster's complaint is that asking for "extra cheese" is not under the "toppings" heading, but another section? I guess the best analogy I can think of is that I wouldn't assume I could get all the toppings I wanted for free because instead of clicking the boxes in the toppings menu, I asked for my toppings in the "special instructions" section of the order form.

[The Glyphstone]

I don't really see why one would assume asking for "extra" anything will not incur an extra charge, unless I'm misunderstanding; as I understand, the original poster's complaint is that asking for "extra cheese" is not under the "toppings" heading, but another section? I guess the best analogy I can think of is that I wouldn't assume I could get all the toppings I wanted for free because instead of clicking the boxes in the toppings menu, I asked for my toppings in the "special instructions" section of the order form.

The issue is that they, say, charge 9.99 for a Large with 2 Toppings, then give you a Cheese section, a Toppings section, and a Sauce section....but while Extra Cheese counts as one of your '2 Toppings', it's listed under the Cheese segment, and is never stated that it counts as a topping. So you try to get a 2-topping large as per the special, but when you add extra cheese, suddenly the charge is for a 3-topping large pizza with no special offer available.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Bhu
Y'know Pizza Hut used to be good back in the 70's. What the hell happened there?

I think it still can be good, on the fringes of theoryspace, but it depends tremendously on the individual location.

I used to game at a friend's house about an hour's drive away, and sometimes we'd make a run to his local Pizza Hut. It was flawless, magnificent, always made precisely to spec and never a problem with the orders or the staff. So of course that branch closed down. :smallfrown:


Originally Posted by VeisuItaTyhjyys
I don't really see why one would assume asking for "extra" anything will not incur an extra charge....

Well, I love sauce, so I always used to ask for "extra, EXTRA red sauce," and Pizza Hut never charged me for it. The location I mentioned above always managed to get it just right. --The location I'm stuck with in my area, unfortunately, tends to do brilliant things like give me extra cheese and no sauce at all.

And yet they stay in business.

:smallannoyed:

[VeisuItaTyhjyys]

The issue is that they, say, charge 9.99 for a Large with 2 Toppings, then give you a Cheese section, a Toppings section, and a Sauce section....but while Extra Cheese counts as one of your '2 Toppings', it's listed under the Cheese segment, and is never stated that it counts as a topping. So you try to get a 2-topping large as per the special, but when you add extra cheese, suddenly the charge is for a 3-topping large pizza with no special offer available.

I understand, I just don't understand why one wouldn't assume "extra" anything will increase the cost; again, all the toppings hypothetical-Veisu requested in the "special instructions" box aren't in the Toppings section, but hypothetical-Veisu would certainly still expect to pay. Moreover, at least with regard to Dominos, there is also a "price my order" option, making it even less understandable how one would not know the price before ordering one's pizza.

In short, my contention is that there really isn't anything shady about this, given that it's strange to expect something for nothing and that the consumer is given the opportunity to check the price before paying.

[Bhu]

I understand, I just don't understand why one wouldn't assume "extra" anything will increase the cost; again, all the toppings hypothetical-Veisu requested in the "special instructions" box aren't in the Toppings section, but hypothetical-Veisu would certainly still expect to pay. Moreover, at least with regard to Dominos, there is also a "price my order" option, making it even less understandable how one would not know the price before ordering one's pizza.

In short, my contention is that there really isn't anything shady about this, given that it's strange to expect something for nothing and that the consumer is given the opportunity to check the price before paying.

In some places anymore it's not about it being extra. You generally assume a pizza comes with cheese so the price of a 1 topping pizza is assumed to be cheese and 1 topping. A local place switched to counting cheese as a topping without telling anyone (i.e. a 1 topping pizza was a plain cheese pizza) and quickly went down because of it. Customers are fickle.


I think it still can be good, on the fringes of theoryspace, but it depends tremendously on the individual location.

I used to game at a friend's house about an hour's drive away, and sometimes we'd make a run to his local Pizza Hut. It was flawless, magnificent, always made precisely to spec and never a problem with the orders or the staff. So of course that branch closed down. :smallfrown:

The local pizza hut is salt. Seriously I think one of my friends order s a pie every year or so, and all you can taste is the salt, with a slight hint of grease.

[Tanuki Tales]

The point is, if "extra" anything is a topping and you're counting it as a topping, then it should be part of the toppings menu. It's not my or any other customers decision to remove the amount of cheese on a pizza from the toppings menu to make a third menu subset called "cheese and sauce".

The price of a pizza, generally, is not affected by how little or how much sauce you add, if you change it to white sauce, if you change how well or un-well done it's cooked, what shape it's cut in, how little cheese you put on, etc. These are things they do to your pizza free of charge.

So when you remove "extra cheese" from the toppings menu and throw it with all those other free options, I don't think anyone is being entitled when they see that as the business saying "hey, extra cheese is a freebie now".

[dehro]

in my experience, "extra toppings" is where the cash is made.. because people expect to pay more, even if the difference is in 3-4 slices of ham or a couple of anchovies. whereas they expect the "base" to be all inclusive which usually means that the pizzaman is making less money if he includes stuff in the "base item" before the upgrades.

I'm curious.. my pizza eating days in the States began with a slice of pizza ordered in a place at the Yosemite national park, some 20+ years ago and ended there, because the stuff was inedible so I vowed to never try again (my mistake, I'm sure there are some pretty fine pizzas in the US too)... so I'm not knowledgeable about how things are handled in the states.
am I correct in assuming that you get your basic "pizza margherita" (tomato, cheese and basil) and then go wild and put anything you like on top of it as extra toppings? or do you have a set of "standard/classic pizzas" like most places have in Italy and then add or remove stuff to suit your personal taste?
in italy, most decent pizza places will have some 10-20 different "classic pizzas" ranging from four cheeses to four seasons, classic calzone or margherita, or what have you.. and then the same amount of variations wich tend to be either a personal take on something classic or a more common variation with a "new" name to it.

also, what's your take on the thickness of the pizza?
I myself prefer the thin (like crepes-thin) and large, with crispy crust, others prefer the thick slice.. others yet prefer Napoli-style, meaning roughly the size of a common plate and up to a centimeter in thickness, including the toppings

[Karen Lynn]

Gotta say, Margherita is the least common style pizza here. So few people have any concept of the simplest basic pizza.

American standard is one meat, usually pepperoni or sausage.

We have a lot of places that offer a lot of styles, be they in house or 'classic'.

Me, I just go crazy. Current fave: Southwest BBQ Chicken pizza.
BBQ sauce in place of pizza sauce
Cheddar in place of Mozzarella
Chicken
Bacon
Onion
Jalapeno

It is delicious~

As for thickness, I'm a fan of pan style(roughly 1 cm thick, high crust on rim) and hand tossed. Love making hand tossed.

[Tanuki Tales]

I'm curious.. my pizza eating days in the States began with a slice of pizza ordered in a place at the Yosemite national park, some 20+ years ago and ended there, because the stuff was inedible so I vowed to never try again (my mistake, I'm sure there are some pretty fine pizzas in the US too)... so I'm not knowledgeable about how things are handled in the states.
am I correct in assuming that you get your basic "pizza margherita" (tomato, cheese and basil) and then go wild and put anything you like on top of it as extra toppings? or do you have a set of "standard/classic pizzas" like most places have in Italy and then add or remove stuff to suit your personal taste?
in italy, most decent pizza places will have some 10-20 different "classic pizzas" ranging from four cheeses to four seasons, classic calzone or margherita, or what have you.. and then the same amount of variations wich tend to be either a personal take on something classic or a more common variation with a "new" name to it.

Cost wise, Pizzas can be broken down like this:

Plain, "Margherita" style pizzas are the basic blue print and the price tag cheapest pizza. They come with just one application of cheese, sauce and standard, New York style crust. You can generally change the amount of sauce, the type of sauce, the way it's cooked, how it's cut, etc. for free. Some places may also allow you to switch the type of cheese (not amount, type) and the type of crust for free as well. This pizza is almost universally allowed 1 topping (which includes cheese) without raising the cost.
Next up is "Specialty" pizzas from Chain franchises. Any special they may be running at any time can end up cheaper than any custom built pizza. So you could get a large, 5 topping "Meat Lover's" for the same cost as a regular 3 topping large. It all depends on the specials, promotions and coupons you have.
Finally it's custom made pizzas. As soon as you go over the topping threshold (which, since this isn't a special order, is usually 1, but sometimes up to 3), they start reaming you on the cost. It gets so bad that a 3 or more topping pizza can end up costing the same as a full course dinner for two people.

And that's before they screw you with "Delivery Charge" (which no, isn't a tip to the driver. You still have to pay that in addition) and "Taxes" on the order. :smallannoyed:


also, what's your take on the thickness of the pizza?
I myself prefer the thin (like crepes-thin) and large, with crispy crust, others prefer the thick slice.. others yet prefer Napoli-style, meaning roughly the size of a common plate and up to a centimeter in thickness, including the toppings

I love me my pan pizza, but only Mama Ilardo's does it well anymore. Everywhere else is a crappy knock off of Pizza Hut's crappy super doughy and soft pan style. :smallsigh:

[Bhu]

in my experience, "extra toppings" is where the cash is made.. because people expect to pay more, even if the difference is in 3-4 slices of ham or a couple of anchovies.


You would think that but no. My info is sadly out of date as I'm no longer in the industry but when I was in chain pizza we used to have a deal: two large with 'everything' for 15 bucks. Wanna know what the cost to us was to make them? Just under 4 bucks. Plus a large pop was something like a buck fifty, and it cost us 20 cents. Pizza is a fairly generous industry in terms of profit as long as you don't let the staff eat the food, and don't deliver (and go the extra mile to not piss people off). Delivery adds tons of overhead you wouldn't normally think of and exposes you and your staff to unnecessary risk. The only downside to pizza is that there are usually so many options for it nearby that you really, really need good customer service, because if you anger one they just don't come back.

[VeisuItaTyhjyys]

And that's before they screw you with "Delivery Charge" (which no, isn't a tip to the driver. You still have to pay that in addition) and "Taxes" on the order. :smallannoyed:

Unless our government works much differently than I learned in civics class, I don't really think it's fair to say the pizza place is screwing you with taxes. If, like, I missed something about the legislature being held in the iron grip of the Pizza Barons, I guess that's fair.

[turkishproverb]

I'm always in favor of local pizza shops rather than chains. You can find much better pizza, but it does take some work finding the good ones.


As an aside, "Dishonest Pizza" would be a great band name.

I agree with both of these.

[VeisuItaTyhjyys]

I would be in a thrash band called Dishonest Pizza, but you guys have to wait for me to wash all my denim until it fades and starts falling apart. Also, does anyone want the laces from these white Adidas?

[Tanuki Tales]

Unless our government works much differently than I learned in civics class, I don't really think it's fair to say the pizza place is screwing you with taxes. If, like, I missed something about the legislature being held in the iron grip of the Pizza Barons, I guess that's fair.

It's screwing you when the taxes are based off the included Delivery charge and not the flat pizza cost.

[VeisuItaTyhjyys]

Again, I don't think a pizza company really gets to pick what is and is not taxed.

[Karen Lynn]

The delivery is a service. Services and goods are taxable under both state and federal regulations.

Delivery charges are really just a way for the company to have you foot the bill for their insurance for having delivery drivers(which only protects the company in case the driver does something or something happens to the driver. The driver is not protected by this insurance at all.).

[Tanuki Tales]

Again, I don't think a pizza company really gets to pick what is and is not taxed.

They pick what they charge though.

It's not like taxes are magical amounts that are applied in a complete vacuum from other factors.

[VeisuItaTyhjyys]

So, really, they're screwing us over by not just giving everyone free pizza. I can get behind that.

[Tanuki Tales]

So, really, they're screwing us over by not just giving everyone free pizza. I can get behind that.

Nice Straw Man.

I never had an issue with the premise of pizza costing money. I had an issue with an, in my opinion, outrageous price for a usually mediocre product.

[Asta Kask]

I never had an issue with the premise of pizza costing money. I had an issue with an, in my opinion, outrageous price for a usually mediocre product.

Buy from someone else then. Or make your own. It's very simple really - if you think you're being cheated by someone, don't buy from them.

[TuggyNE]

Buy from someone else then. Or make your own. It's very simple really - if you think you're being cheated by someone, don't buy from them.

Hmm. While it's reasonable enough to say "capitalism covers a multitude of sins and fixes things", it's also true that sometimes complaining fixes things faster. Or is just handy to get stuff off your chest, in a visceral way that "oh I'll stop giving them money" just doesn't quite manage.

[VeisuItaTyhjyys]

Nice Straw Man.

I never had an issue with the premise of pizza costing money. I had an issue with an, in my opinion, outrageous price for a usually mediocre product.

Presenting the delivery fee as some sort of inane, tacked-on contrivance isn't really fair, either; complaining that someone charges you for a service which vastly increases their own overhead is, basically, complaining that someone charges you for doing something for you which costs them money. In other words, to me, all these complaints boil (bake?) down to "Ugh, how dare those pizza places charge me for these goods and/or services?"

[Mystic Muse]

In some places anymore it's not about it being extra. You generally assume a pizza comes with cheese so the price of a 1 topping pizza is assumed to be cheese and 1 topping. A local place switched to counting cheese as a topping without telling anyone (i.e. a 1 topping pizza was a plain cheese pizza) and quickly went down because of it. Customers are fickle.

This is what I was under the impression was the problem. I'd be kinda annoyed too.

"Hey, I'd like to get a large pepperoni pizza."

"Great, that'll be X.YZ!"

"Wait, you're supposed to have a deal. I'm supposed to get the pizza for $5.99 if there's only one topping."

"Yeah, and you have two toppings. Pepperoni and Cheese."

"..."

I would then proceed to cancel my order, and definitely complain to the people who make that sort of dumb policy. :smallannoyed:

[VeisuItaTyhjyys]

Nah, at least in the initial post, it was a complaint about extra cheese counting as a topping or, more specifically, extra cheese counting as a topping despite being in a different section of the online order form than other toppings were, which the poster found misleading.

[Xuc Xac]

I'm still wondering why they thought "listed separately = free".

[Mystic Muse]

Nah, at least in the initial post, it was a complaint about extra cheese counting as a topping or, more specifically, extra cheese counting as a topping despite being in a different section of the online order form than other toppings were, which the poster found misleading.

That still seems quite unintuitive, though not quite as bad. I'd still greatly dislike that.

[Abies]

I'm finding it amazing that someone is surprised to be being charged for something clearly labeled as "EXTRA cheese" and/or "EXTRA sauce". Perhaps the meaning of "EXTRA" has escaped the concerned parties.

Just in case the meaning still escapes you... The term "Extra" means EXTRA!!! Which is more than usual. Its an additional topping that any reasonable person would expect to pay more for regardless of whether or not it was included on the list of toppings. The whole "Extra" designation assumes a person is intelligent enough to understand that it also costs more. If a particular consumer can not understand that, that's a problem with that person, not the advertising.

If that were not the case, It would be like me ordering one large piazza... Extra crust, extra sauce, extra cheese... oh and go ahead and make that into a whole separate pie... What? No there's nothing saying that that is a separate charge... YOU'RE CHEATING ME!!

[Philistine]

Interestingly, the last time I looked at Pizza Hut's online ordering site (which was several months ago, to be fair), I'm pretty sure it explicitly stated that "extra cheese" was counted and charged as a separate topping. It was right next to the option to select extra cheese. It seems to me that makes this a case of PEBCAK.

... And now, having pulled up their ordering website just to check this, I can confirm that YES, the menu option is "EXTRA Cheese (Extra Charge Applies)." Again I say unto you, Problem Exists Between Chair And Keyboard.


ETA: EXTRA Cheese isn't even the only non-free item on that menu, as selecting alfredo sauce instead of the marinara also carries an additional charge.

[Karoht]

I've yet to see a place that did extra cheese as a free topping. Or rather, one that didn't carry an extra charge. Typically, even if it is in a list of toppings and doesn't warn that it costs extra, I'll usually just ask, even if I have no intention of ordering it. Again, I've yet to run into a place that did not charge for extra cheese on a pizza.

However, there was a pizza place that DIDN'T charge extra for extra cheese or feta cheese in a calzone. I ordered mine with extra cheese and feta cheese, onions and peppers. 4 toppings, paid standard price. Go figure.