Bonus XP for Food! Yummy.

[cloudjsh7]

So I'm sure most of us have done it either purposely on sub-conciously. Ya know: having your bro Steve run to Jack-In-The Box for food for your group. And of course, you're a good DM, so you're like "Hey Steve, I really appreciate it man! *epic bro-five* Here's some bonus XP for spending cash on us."

In your games, how much XP did you guys give?

Real money is a different issue for all of us. Some of us have good jobs. And some of us don't. My goal is to let my players know that I appreciate them spending their real life hard-earned gold on everyone, but not have it so people are dumping cash to power level like this was some MMO (/shame for comparing those two. :smalltongue:)

My current thought was something similar to "50 xp per 1 dollar spent." Maybe even 100? Or maybe one of you high-level Mathmagicians know some balanced way of increasing how much XP to award per level.

Bacon.

[Seerow]

Honestly I'd be against any form of in game reward for out of game things (similarly in game penalties for out of game actions are also bad). I mean buying food to get extra experience for your character? That's like worse than facebook style microtransactions.

Generally my groups do one of three things:

1) Everyone chips in what money they can, we order pizza or something similar, people who chip in most get priority in picking toppings and such. This is generally the method we go with if someone's been regularly hurting for cash, so nobody's left out while everyone else eats.

2) Everyone takes turns buying food for the group. Generally works out well when everyone is working and can afford to take their turn. It's nice to only have to worry about shelling out once every month or two instead of remembering to bring 5-10 bucks cash every week.

3) One person covers the meal, but everyone else brings a variety of snacks/drinks. This is an option my groups haven't used in a while, but is ideal for groups who play long marathon sessions.

[cloudjsh7]

Well it's not "per character". Any bonus XP awarded would be evenly distributed amongst the entire group. So if Steve spent maybe $10, that's maybe 500 XP or 1000 XP. Then divided by maybe 4 players would be around 125 XP or 250 XP per person.

It's not really there to be level easier. Its really a form of me saying "thank you" without someone buying food for everyone and feeling bad about it.

[Palanan]

I would strongly suggest not doing this as well.

I had a DM who started out by giving a hefty XP bonus to several players who helped him move some heavy furniture one weekend. That would've been fine as a one-time event, but unfortunately it set a precedent for his giving XP to anyone who did chores, went on snack runs, helped out around the house before a game, etc.

This went on for a while, until one of the other guys rather loudly and pointedly asked, "Hey, do I get XP for not complaining about them getting XP?" Our DM hadn't realized it, but it was causing some frustration and resentment with the other players.

On the other side of it, I had another DM who would dock XP for things that players did in real life, not their characters. I hated this policy because it seemed so absurdly unfair.

So, for these and other reasons, in my campaigns I have a strict rule of no XP bonuses for real-life actions. The XP goes to the characters, so it has to be earned by the characters, inside the game. Otherwise you're creating complications, headaches, and unnecessary frustrations that don't help the game at all.

[Slipperychicken]

I gamed with a DM who did this sort of thing. Weirdly enough, the stuff he was giving me xp for was stuff I'd have done anyway had he simply asked, like bringing some lotion to the session for his girlfriend (she got some kind of mild allergy, I think) and helping people level their characters up.


I don't support it. It isn't fair, and it feels wrong to receive in-game reward for out-of-game action.

[Hyde]

I gamed with a DM who did this sort of thing. Weirdly enough, the stuff he was giving me xp for was stuff I'd have done anyway had he simply asked, like bringing some lotion to the session for his girlfriend (she got some kind of mild allergy, I think) and helping people level their characters up.


Odd, when I bring lotion for another man's girlfriend, I get punched in the face.

[Kerilstrasz]

hmm... when i dm i usually dont give XP for things players do with 1 and only
exception that it is also a house rule! if at any point a player makes me lough
with a smart line while RPing he gets a standard 100xp bonus..

also there are times that i m too tired or bored to do 5 steps into kitchen for
a coffee refill or some water.. the one who offers gets 50 xp and at the and
of session (or in the middle of it, if smn is about to lvl up with these 50xp) i give
all the rest players the same 50xp saying "just because he offer to do that".

although if i catch someone to intentionally uses my "bonus XP rules" just to get
xp he instantly looses 100.

[Fyermind]

Suspension of disbelief hangs by a threat when being in the eye of the beholder means your fly spells is temporarily deactivated and the acne-scarred, bespectacled teen across from you is trying to convince you that he, as an elf maiden, is seducing you, as a Dwarf king (Dwarves don't even like elves... wait, neither of them are real...).

Don't strain it any further by having what happens outside the game effect what happens inside it. The only way I let this work is to ask players outside the game about directions they would like to see the game go and why. I usually go with the most conservative request for game tone and the most interesting request for plot direction (or at least influenced by some of the plot directives). People bring snacks and stuff get my ears for a little bit longer, people helping me set up or otherwise finagling extra time with me similarly have an advantage.

[Golden Ladybug]

Yeah, I would be against this as well. Food is always an issue, but regardless of how you set it out there's going to be a bad precedent.

Maybe I'm a little bit overly cautious here, but then again, when my group was playing Pathfinder they tried to start a Rat Farm so they could kill Rats to get small chunks of xp without putting themselves at risk. As level 7 Characters no less!


Odd, when I bring lotion for another man's girlfriend, I get punched in the face.

May I sig this :smallbiggrin:

[eggynack]

I'd at least advise against giving experience based on the dollar amount. Just toss the food buying member a friendly bundle of 50 xp, to show that you're happy they helped out. Food is food. You don't need to incentivize getting the group take out from your local fancy french restaurant.

[Ravens_cry]

No, out of game is out of game and in game is in game.
I am sure there is some way of showing your appreciation without an in-game boost.

[eggynack]

No, out of game is out of game and in game is in game.
I am sure there is some way of showing your appreciation without an in-game boost.
I don't know if this is necessarily true. Generally, what you want to do is make the in game boost small enough that the other players are happy that the food bringing player got it. If you give a character 50 xp, then the players aren't going to be super peeved that the character got those points, they're just going to be like, "Yeah. It was really nice of you to get the food. We are joined in camaraderie." If the xp bonuses get big enough though, I can see players getting annoyed. If you're giving out 500 xp, then folks are going to be motivated by jealousy rather than the ghostly spirit of good times. I'm not sure where the tipping point is, but 50 xp per dollar is definitely too much. It shouldn't be a big enough bonus that it has an effect on the game. If you're stuck on the per dollar thing, then maybe 5 per. I think that a solid 50 xp bundle is the best bet though.

[molten_dragon]

I don't give out bonus XP for that sort of thing. XP is earned in-game, not for doing out-of-game stuff.

Generally, if we're getting food, everyone pays their own way. If someone can't afford it, maybe someone else will loan them the money, but that's between those two people.

People do bring snacks to share, but it's not with the expectation of getting something out of it, it's just being nice. And pretty much everyone has brought something at one time or another. Some people bring stuff more often than others, but some of the people in our group are older and have full time jobs, and others are poor college kids.

[yougi]

I agree with the others, XP is for a character, therefore it should be earned through a character's actions.

I had a few DMs who gave XP for OOC reasons, and in most cases it ended up causing trouble in the group, but in one case, it worked out. The DM gave XP if you submitted a character's background. He also had a long text describing the prologue to our campaign's story, and a quiz at our first meeting to see who had read it. You got bonus XP based on your score on the test. In this case, despite the quiz being weird (we were all students in Education, so less weird than it sounds, but still weird), it worked out quite well because (1) it was prior to the first game, (2) it was as close to in-game as you can get OOC, (3) we all knew of it beforehand, and (4) it wasn't dependent on our personal, OOC characteristics, such as income.

That's another important thing that you did mention, but I'll point out again how discriminatory it is. Think of one thing you're terrible at, or that you hate doing, and imagine a DM gives XP for THAT. I mean, if a DM gives XP to those who go with him to run a triathlon, I'd be pretty insulted, because it would feel like he's saying: "Hey, you all can get extra XP, but Yougi sure won't, cause he's so out of shape!" I imagine it would be the same thing with money and the guy who's broke, or, to a certain extent, that quiz I talked about and a guy with dyslexia.

TL;DR: In addition to being unfair, giving XP for OOC actions can cause a player to be excluded for something they're already insecure about.

[DarkWhisper]

My current thought was something similar to "50 xp per 1 dollar spent." Maybe even 100? Or maybe one of you high-level Mathmagicians know some balanced way of increasing how much XP to award per level.
Bacon.

Ah... Pay-to-Win has finally made its way to tabletop RPGs. :smalltongue:

Not much to add beyond what has already been said, except repeat "Don't reward non-game related things with IC rewards".

[Hyde]

It seems like a lot of people missed the part where "any reward earned was split among the group".

[Slipperychicken]

Ah... Pay-to-Win has finally made its way to tabletop RPGs. :smalltongue:


There actually was a thread here long ago, where a guy lent minis to his players, who kept losing them. Eventually, he got fed up and made them pay for the minis, plus a little extra.


Now I think I can see what a game DM'd by Ebenezer Scrooge would look like...

"Wealth by Level a humbug, Scrooge? You don't mean that, I'm sure."

[Averis Vol]

I don't give out xp for random things PC's do out of game, but what I do do when someone does something nice (Brings drinks/snacks, pays for lunch, brings a movie for after the game when we all wind down, etc, etc.) Is either bring their character specific plot hook to the front of my work line and give it some attention (I have at the very least one for each person anyways, this just dictates how soon it happens, like the tieflings father coming back into the picture to try and recruit him to the darkside.) or I throw in some extra time to shine, along with the usual "thank you man" they get.

EDIT: to the OP. I get what you're trying to do, but there are more fulfilling in character ways to show your appreciation to the guy willing to grab food, and what everyone is getting at is that it sounds like bribery; whether it actually is or not.

[Sgt. Cookie]

In MM4 or 5, there is an an outsider that is summoned with a huge feast. It wouldn't be too difficult to kill it for XP. At epic levels, summoning this creature would certainly be Bonus XP for food.

[snoosnaa]

My group sometimes gives xp rewards for out of game actions. For example, if you make me laugh harder than I have in a week, you get XP. The difference for us is that this XP "reward" is always one single experiance point. We like to rub it into each other when we get bonus xp this way. So, it still kinda makes you feel special for getting a reward, but in the end is more of a joke.

[nedz]

Odd, when I bring lotion for another man's girlfriend, I get punched in the face.

It's not what you do, it's how you do it. :smallbiggrin:

Back to the point of the thread: Mixing IC and OC actions is fundamentally wrong. IC rewards should be for IC actions and vice-versa. I guess it depends upon your playstyle: In a beer and pretzels game this probably doesn't matter, but I would not be happy with this as either a DM or a player, irrespective of who got the reward.

[Darius Kane]

I don't use XP, period. But I do give a level for a handjob.

[Corundum Dragon]

Instead of xp give equivalent in game reward that doesn't really effect things. For some who buys food, have them rescue someone from muggers who give them a feast in their honor. It could be the son or daughter of a wealthy merchant, or noble. You could also use it for plot hook. If someone help set up you could have them save someone like above, but have the npc follow them around and act as a helper for a while.
If someone can't chip in with food have them come across game, lottery, etc in town where they spend a few (1-5) gold and win a vacation or something for the group.

[Spuddles]

I usually give my gf extra xp/loot if she, uh, services me.





Just kidding. xp rewards for out of game behavior grosses me out. It's a violation of the game's premise.

[Ravens_cry]

I don't know if this is necessarily true. Generally, what you want to do is make the in game boost small enough that the other players are happy that the food bringing player got it. If you give a character 50 xp, then the players aren't going to be super peeved that the character got those points, they're just going to be like, "Yeah. It was really nice of you to get the food. We are joined in camaraderie." If the xp bonuses get big enough though, I can see players getting annoyed. If you're giving out 500 xp, then folks are going to be motivated by jealousy rather than the ghostly spirit of good times. I'm not sure where the tipping point is, but 50 xp per dollar is definitely too much. It shouldn't be a big enough bonus that it has an effect on the game. If you're stuck on the per dollar thing, then maybe 5 per. I think that a solid 50 xp bundle is the best bet though.
If it isn't enough to make a difference, then its not much if an incentive, now is it? I also abhor the reverse, using in-game events to 'punish' out of game annoyances and problems.

[eggynack]

If it isn't enough to make a difference, then its not much if an incentive, now is it? I also abhor the reverse, using in-game events to 'punish' out of game annoyances and problems.
I don't really see it as an incentive. It's just a little perk that makes people happy. It's like a pat on the back, translated into game terms. The reaction I noted above, where the recipient is happy and everyone else is happy for him, is what I'd be going for. Tying actual gameplay into food getting seems absurd, but giving ineffectual rewards seems fine.

[Slipperychicken]

I don't use XP, period. But I do give a level for a handjob.

There's no blue text here.... :smalleek:

[Yogibear41]

my DM gives 1000xp if you help him with yardwork lol

[Jeff the Green]

I don't really see it as an incentive. It's just a little perk that makes people happy. It's like a pat on the back, translated into game terms.

Eh, as both the food-bearing player and the non-food-bearing player I'd prefer a literal pat on the back.

[eggynack]

Eh, as both the food-bearing player and the non-food-bearing player I'd prefer a literal pat on the back.
Perhaps so. I'm not sure if it's something I'd do as a DM, but I think that there's some validity to offering minor in game bonuses for out of game coolness. It's possible that literal pats on the back would be a better solution, but XP parcels have their advantages. For one thing, it's an actual permanent thing rather than a transient moment. For another, it's a benefit that can be universally acknowledged and understood, while other signs may be less unequivocally nice to have. I think that a DM just saying, "Hey, it was cool of you to get this food. Here's some XP for your troubles," might be a nice thing. The first sentence without the second could work too, but XP is nice.