PF: Kid Friendly Adventures

[joca4christ]

So I'm thinking of teaching my kids (8 & 9) to play PF. Even went so far as to do one of those "personality" quizzes to see which class they'd like the most. (My daughter ended up monk, my son a wizard.)

So what would be a kid friendly type adventure I could get them started on? Was thinking something with not a lot of violence and killing. Maybe a mystery themed, "find what's been stealing" kind of thing. What would be a funny, not too scary monster or fey that would be fun to interact with?

Any other ideas for kids of their age?

[Waker]

To avoid violence issues, you could go the route of many cartoons and have them fight enemies that aren't alive, like constructs and undead. Why else do you think there are so many robot enemies?
A classic fantasy goal is saving the princess from the dragon. Exactly who is being saved and from what is up to you. Alternatively you could give them a fetch quest. Say that some Npc needs an object for some event (coronation, ritual, wild party) and the kids need to go on a treasure hunt. If you use this goal, make sure to provide a map and very obvious clues to follow.

[Palanan]

You could send them up against a scam artist who's been operating in town, maybe a low-level rogue or beguiler.

I recently worked up a solo scenario for a new player based around a small-time scam, which I developed from some of the ideas kindly shared here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=264346). You'd want to adjust this to your kids' age and interests, although a gold-prospecting scenario could be as much fun as a treasure hunt.

[Keneth]

You wanna find a non-violent adventure in a game that focuses primarily on the mass murder of morally opposed creatures for self-benefit? That might be harder than it sounds. :smallbiggrin:

Also, are you sure they're old enough to learn something as complex as third ed. D&D? At that age your attention span isn't exactly very long, so you have to really want to learn something. There was a recent thread asking for advice about introducing kids into D&D that probably had some good points. The very first one being that you should ease them into roleplaying with a simpler system before moving onto D&D. :smallsmile:

[Deffers]

Microlite d20 is, by the way, possibly one of the better systems for teaching kids to play d20 based RPGs. The rules can fit on one sheet of paper, for heaven's sakes.

It'd be a good step towards getting the kids to play and enjoy Pathfinder. Basically go, like, "OK, now this session we'll add in attacks of opportunity" or "for this campaign, we'll throw in this splatbook" and so on and so forth and they'll be pros by the end of it! Kids are way smarter than grown-ups, you just have to sneak their genius past 'em. :smallwink:

[The Boz]

Microlite d20 is, by the way, possibly one of the better systems for teaching kids to play d20 based RPGs. The rules can fit on one sheet of paper, for heaven's sakes.

It'd be a good step towards getting the kids to play and enjoy Pathfinder. Basically go, like, "OK, now this session we'll add in attacks of opportunity" or "for this campaign, we'll throw in this splatbook" and so on and so forth and they'll be pros by the end of it! Kids are way smarter than grown-ups, you just have to sneak their genius past 'em. :smallwink:

There's also PathfinderLite.
OP, I applaud you for your efforts and wish you the best of luck!

Also, this is an EXCELLENT opportunity for me to once again be annoying and spam the forums with a link to my Monk rework! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13536035#post13536035)

But I wouldn't inflict it on a child, no. Give them a fighter and a sorcerer, if you insist on not using a lite ruleset.

[Waker]

I forgot to ask, is the party only going to consist of the two kids or will they be joined by others?
As to the classes, I would suggest that you avoid Wizard for a young player. Warlock with invocations gained every level and maybe Sorcerer Bloodlines is fun and easy for playing a mage. Give him a few wands to expand his options a bit.
Monks are better in PF, but you may want to make some adjustments, like granting full BAB or giving he access to ninja tricks with her ki. Or you could just outright combine ninja and monk.

[Lord Haart]

No underestimating children. No trying to pass syrup for a ketchup for them. Give them their credit. They are perfectly okay with superheroes punching villains three times to November, heroes slaying evil beasts, they play games (i don't mean only shooters; my first computer games were TBS, then i transitioned into RPG genre, and i was definitely aware that my units kill enemy units for various, depending on which faction i play for at the moment, sometimes just, sometimes selfish causes) where it's often a default solution (and before our age, they've read books where it's also not an uncommon solution) and they are, believe it or not, more psychically resilient than adults in a number of ways. They also have a very good intuitive grip at IC/OOC-segregation (although not completely in a way roleplayers understand it, so some explanation might prove useful) — firm enough to both make a very good roleplayers once they get what roleplay is about and, more importantly, to know that if violence is a good solution for superheroes, warriors and barbarians, it doesn't make it a good solution for their own troubles (now if they see someone real, whom they know and respect, solve his problems with violence IRL, that most probably will have consequences).

Now, there was a lot of combat in Lord of the rings, but it wasn't a book about combat. Different players have different expectations; if you give them combat-centric, dungeon-clearing campaign without a good plot, dynamics and characters, they will play for a while but eventually they'll get bored. That applies to any player, regardless of age (and short of people who regard D&D more as a strategical and tactical challenge and try to munch, with or without self-restrictions, their way to win; while children may appreciate it too — after all, there are chess prodigies — D&D itself doesn't quite present itself as such an abstraction, so i doubt they'll become undiluted munchkins if you give them a chance to appreciate both sides of game). So, ask them what they want from a campaign, combine it with what you want as a GM, keep it interesting, be ready for an exorbitant amount of non-trivial solutions and attempts at such, let them shine when they deserve it without letting them powerhouse everything, keep game logic internally consistent et cetera et setera — in short, be a good DM. About the only advice that i can give that is children-specific (if not in a sense of applying only to children then at least in a sense of being even more important for them) is to never, never ever tell them that they can't swing on a chandelier/bite a guy who's grappling them/bounce a thrown shield around the corner, because it takes a very specific skill-trick/feat/prestige to be able to try it at all (which in my opinion is one of the most moronics limitations of D&D and D&D-inspired systems, anyway); ad-lib an ability check or a rule on place, write it down and use forevermore.
Okay, not the only. There's two more. First, character optimisation is a minigame in itself, and one more closely related to "munchkining-masterplanning" side of game (and explaining the tier sistem will probably prove fruitless, as they'll obviously want more powerful characters rather than less powerful). I'd suggest asking them what they want their characters to be able to do and building the characters yourself, making sure that monk gets to be well-optimized and wizard doesn't so they end up on the same level of both power and utility, then changing their builds on the fly if during the play you hear complains like "I thought it's obvious that kung-fu monk can run up the walls!" ("Well, if you wish so, here's your feat") so they don't get disappointed. If not, then at least it's in order (just like with any inexperienced players, again) to warn them if they make characters with such a power disrespancy that one's role is easily fulfilled by other's summoned creatures all day long (as is the case with 3.5 core-only-monk and core-only-wizard; i don't quite know about the Pathfinder, but i've heard that the gap, while smaller, is still fundamentally here). And second, try to never, never ever break the rules and/or internal logic. If there are wolves in a forest where all the grass-eating animals have died and they point that out, make their corpses disappear. If there's an animal not running from humans like they do IRL most of the time, make it rabid or enchanted. If a baddie eats a critical arrow to the throat on fourteenth phrase of his speech, then either he dies or he teleports away, they complain and you spoiler them that he does, in fact, has armor of fortification on (or they assume that themselves), and when they kill him that'll be its exact magical property, no excuses. Again, this advice applies to a lot of players, but children often have much less reservations about voicing their offended sense of justice (let alone about assuming that anyone has the right to bend rules), so just don't et them ever suspect you're cheating.

Considering the campaign — again, any good module (that is, well-paced, with a strong plot allowing for some non-linearity and sequence breaking, plot destroying actions-proof etc. etc.; incidentally, most of the good modules don't contain any more combat or any less mystery than they need) will do well, and their own expectation and interests play the main role. I'm not an expert here, but i'm sure there's a thread filled to brim with suggestions somewhere around here.

P. S. I second the warlock idea, although not because of simplicity to learn the class as much as because making a magic-user and discovering that you can't do anything when out of juice might be disappointing (vancian caster with a dip into invocation-user for magic-y low-batteries-option can help, too).

[Squirrel_Dude]

If it's just going to be your two kids, I would suggest having a DMPC of a cleric or healer. Someone who can aid the party, and keep them from being in too much trouble, but not overshadow them when played not to.

[Demorden]

Disclaimer: I realize that this is a delicate matter. Take my suggestions as my very humble opinion.
And remember that I'm not used to discuss this stuff in English, so be patient if I'm not clear.

Very good idea. As long as you keep your plot gore-free, I would not expect issues due to violence. In fairy tales, not to mention tv series, or videogames, violence is always present. Think about the (already mentioned) hero that slains the dragon to save the princess. He doesn't talk the dragon into leaving the tower. He fights to death. Why is this ok? Because you are not telling children about the details of how the sword eviscerates the poor oversized lizard.

There is also a quote I'd like to share. I heard it in "criminal minds":

G.K. Chesterton wrote, "Fairy tales do not tell children that dragons exist. Children already know that dragons exist. Fairy tales tell children that dragons can be killed."

I think that it's true. But I wonder: how can a child learn that the dragons can be killed, if we avoid violence to be politically correct? Please don't answer "diplomancy". You don't want them to learn these silly broken stuff! :smallbiggrin:

Also, try to avoid topics that you don't want to explain. Such as sex, I presume. Though, on the other hand, a well performed game could be a good way to introduce difficult topics in a way that is educational and funny at the same time.

[Squirrel_Dude]

On the topic of dragons and enemies. The dragon or big enemy doesn't necessarily have to be an enemy that needs to be slain, but more of an environmental threat. Maybe the kids can sneak into his cave while he's gone, and then try to steal the piece of treasure he needs. Then the dragon returns and starts chasing them.


Instead of a combat, it becomes a chase scene.

[Gazebo's Bane]

This thread might be useful for you :smallsmile:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=277097

[Blyte]

I just started running a rise of the runelords game, and as is.. it's definitely not for kids. It would take far too many alterations to make it kid friendly.

I have been playing in a kingmaker game though, and so far it seems like it wouldn't require near so many alterations. I have only played AP1, but I have listened to others podcasting their sessions well into AP2.

I would suggest trying a PF6 (E6)variant, and just have the game draw out into perpetual kingdom building/warring and adventure. I am guessing AP3 is more kingdom building and perhaps a bit of war? I haven't listened in on it yet or played it yet, but you can probably use AP1-3 re-skins to keep throwing them episode of the week type sessions. They should really get a kick out of the faerie dragon and other good fey critters. You can run the Mytes like they are the gremlins from the gremlin movies, but as is, is just as good. The kobolds shouldn't need any change. You could have the militia men from brevoy show up just after subduing the initial bandit encounter, so they have people to deliver law breakers to justice to. Monks can easily do non-lethal damage, and wizards "merciful" spells are 0 meta magic mod, so good from level 1.

[joca4christ]

Great ideas, gang! Thank you so much!

I'm still just toying with the idea, seeing if they're interested. Would probably push more of the roleplaying, problem solving aspects of the game, but combat would come up. I like the suggestions of not necessarily overlooking the violence, but not being overly descriptive. May even have all damage be subdual, or rule it so in certain scenarios. Don't know just yet.

I do like the fighting construct idea. Also, was thinking of throwing in some fey...making it a "real" fairy tale. Don't know just yet.

I definitely don't intend to explain all the rules at once, and would probably build their characters for them. My son would definitely end up being a sorcerer in lieu of a wizard...may just fluff it as being wizardly. And as for my daughter as the monk...it'll be interesting. And I'd try to tailor the situations appropriately.

As for the suggestion of DMPCing a healer, already had that idea. Someone to act as a guide at any rate.

For the suggestions of alt gaming systems...thanks! Unless I can get a hold of some for free though, I'm limited.

Again, thanks so much for the input!

[joca4christ]

Found a great intro RPG game called First Fable on Drive Thru RPG. Looking forward to test driving it with my kids this weekend or the next.

The game layout is pretty simple. Four character types to choose from. (A Knight, Faerie Princess, Pirate, and Animal Keeper) Each character gets to choose three skills or "Shines" that the players essentially make up, one Weakness, and one Special Thing. The Special Thing can be a Magic Weapon or Item, a Spell, Animal Companion, (or whatever the kid happens to think up that the parent can use).

It's based around d6s. Each Stat used (Fast, Strong, and Smart) gets a set number of Stars (which equal another dice to roll) plus any Shines (each Shine starts with one Star). Success is rolling 4 or higher. If all dice are Stars (a four or higher roll) then it becomes a Teaching Moment, and the player can either add a new Shine or add a Star to an existing Shine.

At any rate, it looks fun, and easy to learn. Hopefully'll get 'em hooked and have them playing other systems as they age.

Thanks for the Input

[sonofzeal]

For kids age 8 and 9? Honestly, however bright they are, their capacity for abstract thought is limited. Narrating a character's actions is in, but complex dialogue and keeping track of in-character information will be difficult. I wouldn't expect any serious RPing. A simple hack-and-slash may honestly be your best bet.



The other thing I've done that worked well, when introducing an 11-year-old, was simply putting his character in the middle of a forest with some vague pretence and simply letting him explore, while making up the setting based on his exploration. The kid in question almost immediately went out to a road, and accosted the first stagecoach to come by, by throwing daggers at its wheels. I... uh... let that work because he rolled well enough, but his banditting ways pretty quickly landed him in jail. At that point I started weaving a plot in about the guy in the first stagecoach being a corrupt official, and that led to some fun.

All in all, simply letting them DO things and then handling the consequences seems like it works well. Lots of kids will immediately head into power fantasies, often that go in directions distasteful to you, but allowing them to do so and then bringing them to face with the consequences of those choices makes the whole thing a learning experience. Trying to sanitize the whole thing and make it "kid friendly" is, I think, a mistake - largely because even kids can see right through that and will know exactly what you're doing.

[joca4christ]

Sonofzeal...
How right you were! I tried to run First Fable with the kiddos. I don't know if I'm a poor GM, or what, but by the end of the first encounter, they were like...are we done yet?

For what it's worth, it was interesting to see the differences. My son got into the roleplaying (spoke in a silly voice as his character), which annoyed my daughter greatly. She, however, got a grasp on the mechanics rather quickly and was the one that actually "won" the encounter.

Oh well...
I'll let them watch me have fun with my friends in a couple of weeks, and maybe they'll want in on the action at some later point.

Thanks all!

[my13]

i can say that letting your children play is great, but be prepared to be surprised at their ability, my 5 year old plays (better than some of the adults in our party). there are a few things to be ready for out of game just my experience... im not sure if you are planning more than just them in your party, our games run late so we have what we call the pregame show at our house, we run an arena style game before hand which includes my 5 year old running her character with the rest of the party its usually quick in comparison to a regular session usually lasting about an hour and a half. she gets to play and it also gives the adults time to get into their characters as a warm up to actual game. dont be nervous about letting them fight things dnd is mild compared to the things they are exposed to on tv and such. plus it is easier for them to seperate real life from play if they see their mini as the one who does things. we have actually helped with nightmares this way. after all what is the best way to deal with fear than to get in there and fight it . my daughter said she had a nightmare about some things, so we let her look in the monster manual to find something similar enough and let her character ffight them and no more night mares. also, in character creation, instead of taking a quiz just let them tell you what they want to do, you will be surprised at what they come up with and their ability. my daughter has had 2 characters, one a druid and the other is a rouge monk, she uses both appropriately and in character. she rolled up all of the stats etc and had fun doing so, in game she will say exactly what she wants to do and is very effective. but if you plan on being dm, expect to be thrown off often. great example, fighting a dinosaur, well its trying to bite you so what does the little one do? says ok it must be hungry, uses her wild empathy and gives it her rations so it wont be hungry any more and goes away lol. she has also befriended a polar bear that now fights for her.
also, dont be afraid to let them play with the adults, from my little ones perspective, she gets to spend quality time with mommy, daddy, god father, and adults that she just loves. and she looks forward to it every saturday, its also a great learning tool. they will want to read to be able to know what they can do and you will be surprised at how quickly they will be adding numbers in their head :)

[buttcyst]

************** posted by my13 ******************
my daughter said she had a nightmare about some things, so we let her look in the monster manual to find something similar enough and let her character ffight them and no more night mares

***********************************************


I was the DM for the nightmare sessions, there were 3. holding back on descriptions is the wrong way to go, I found it much more effective and fun for her if I was a little more over the top than usual, being animated when you describe a green hag casting ghost sound sla, I would move around her making eerie sounds so help give her the right feel for the scene. even Disney movies have scary music a awful pictures of strange things when they are introducing the witch or villain in the story. I went all out on the description of everything and she absolutely loved it and like my13 said, no more nightmares. she ended up using treestep to get right next to the hag, cast woodshape on her quarter staff to make it resemble a greatsword and hacked her down, it was pretty awesome.


with kids in the main party, which she was for a good time, I didn't dumb anything down, she went when it was her turn, she had a blast watching the monk drink the town bartender under the table and rob him for everything he has, and watching the impoverished monk bath in the fountain in the main courtyard of the city. and she is always excited when it comes to her turn in both combat and the roleplay portions, but, do have to be prepared for one to turn into the other in the blink of an eye. I felt really bad when she tried to feed the dinosaur and, in character, my barbarian that had just gone into rage the previous round and had been bitten by the dinosaur, hacked it for half its hit points... she didn't catch that so we killed it behind her back...