[SWSE] Pilot Build Assitance, or, I-Am-Utterly-Clueless-About-This-Game-And-Need-Help

[Lucus Casius]

Right, so, I'm joining a Saga Edition game (as you may have guessed from the title), and thought "Hey, I know, I'll build I pilot! Everyone else is building jedi and gunslingers and whatnot, so I'll be useful by actually being competent in a dogfight!"

So, here's the rub. I haven't the faintest clue how to be useful at /other/ times.

Skills? Maybe, but it's a big group, and all the other skills are covered. The system SWSE uses doesn't seem particularly supportive of diversity in that field.

Since we're starting at level five, I was considering dipping into jedi for a level to nab Force Sensitivity and Force Pilot, then swap my Dex with my Cha and maybe, possibly grabbing a few force powers. However, this leaves me... well, with no real dex to speak of (compared to the rest of the party, at any rate--the DM had us roll 4d6 for every stat, then reroll the ones, so the attributes are all fairly high). It also drops my stealth a bit, which is possibly the only other skill I had any hope of being particularly notable in, seeing as no one else appears to have taken it. Also, we do have several force users in the party already.

...Anyway. Pilot who's useful for something other than piloting!

Rolled stats are: 12, 14, 12, 16, 16, and 17

I'd prefer going human, or making a near-human species (which is allowed, by the way. I could drop the human bonus talent, keep the bonus feat, and raise one attribute by two while lowering another by the same). But hey, for the sake of the build, I'll take Duros if I must.

Starting talents I was considering: Evasion (scout), Fringe Savant (Scout), and Fool's Luck (scoundrel). Also force pilot from Jedi if I go that route.

So. What should I do?

[IdleMuse]

Well, race if Saga is more of a flavour thing than anything else, you really don't ever 'need' to be a certain race (short of some optimised concept builds).

In terms of what else to 'do', do you know what sort of battlefield roles the other players have? Something like a grenadier is always super-handy, or a sniper, if the other players don't have super-long-ranged combat down. With several other force users, I would avoid that option, unless you have a cool rp idea (perhaps based on a non-jedi force tradition?)

I can't really give much more general advice than that. Oh, mechanics is a usual additional skillset for pilot-types to have. Or you could go hackery with Use Computer and your scoundrel levels, depends if anyone else is covering that.

What books do you have access to? That's always an important thing to know when builidng a character.

In terms of the talents you've mentioned, Evasion and Fool's Luck are good, Fringe Savant probably isn't, unless your GM counts things that 'treat as a natural 20' as triggering it, in which case you can stack some stuff together for good FP generation. Specifically, Uncanny Luck in S&V is a good one for that.

[Lucus Casius]

I'm not entirely sure what all the other players are planning. I know we have at least one person focused primarily on the force, one person dedicated to lightsaber melee, a noble who rolled better than me and who I'm beginning to suspect is slightly better than me in everything compared to my original build with, I hope, the exception of piloting (nabbed force sensitivity and lightsaber proficiency, too, and I'm fairly sure they're going Master Privateer), someone who definitely /is/ going master privateer but lacks the force powers, and a couple other players that I'm entirely clueless on. Like I said, pretty big group.

As for books, they're all available, I think. He hasn't put any restrictions on them that I've heard of, anyway.

For combat, wouldn't it typically be better to go with a class/multiclass allowing full BAB progression? Most of these ones involving scouts/scoundrels seem like they would be pretty subpar at it unless they tried focusing explicitly on it or were a force user, and, well... I'm still trying to stand out as pilot. Correct me if I'm wrong, here.

[IdleMuse]

That's a lot of Master Privateers for one group :smallamused: I think you've pretty accurately noticed one of the system constraints in SW:SAGA; it can be hard to have a niche in big (7+) parties. If you'd like to be laying the smack down in combat with accurate attack, Full BAB is definitely the way to go, maybe into the Officer PrC (it's pretty rarely taken, but still has some good stuff, particularly for large groups; I doubt anyone else will have it!).

Frankly, the best advice I have for making a memorable character is think up a character that stands out, not a build, not a collection of numbers, but a personality, a background, likes and dislikes. Pretty much anyone can learn to be a pilot in the SW universe, so I wouldn't start there; instead, start with the idea for a person in the world.

[Alejandro]

IdleMuse has good advice. Also, you should try the main Saga thread on this forum. Here's the link:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=267237

You'll get a lot of good Saga player advice there, including IdleMuse and myself. :)

[Xaragos]

For pilot builds in and out of combat consider the synergies of taking weapon proficiency: heavy, burst fire, rapid shot, if you can swing Elite Trooper add in controlled burst, penetration shot: heavy weapons, assured attack, etc. So in essence while flying you can be a really good shot. Out of space combat you can be a really good shot with really big weapons.

I think human is a great choice. Try this:

1) Scout - Talent: Evasion, Feats: Vehicular Combat, Starship Maneuver, Shake it off
2) Soldier - Talent: Penetrating shot heavy, Multi: Armor Prof Light
3) Soldier - Weapon focus: Heavy, Starship Maneuver
4) Soldier - Talent: Weapon spec heavy, (2 stat inc)
5) Soldier - Feat: Point Blank Shot

As an alternative, you can start out with Soldier to save feats towards Elite Trooper at the cost of extra skills.

1) Soldier - Talent: Penetrating Shot heavy, Feats: Veh Comb, Wpn prof heavy
2) Scout - Talent: Evasion, Multi: Shake it Off
3) Soldier - Feats: Starship Maneuver, Weapon Focus Heavy
4) Soldier - Talent: Weapon Spec heavy
5) Soldier - Feat: Point Blank Shot

Not sure if your DM allows for backgrounds but that can give you access to skills along with some other nifty abilities. One that is kind of neat for a pilot is exiled. Check it out :)

[Mando Knight]

Note that Evasion does nothing while you're in your vehicle. For that, you need to go Ace Pilot and pick up Vehicular Evasion.

Edit: No, wait, they were idiots. It does apply, according to Starships. (Especially stupid in my opinion, as Evasion is a much stronger talent than Vehicular Evasion, but doesn't require you to enter a Prestige class for it!)

[Xaragos]

Note that Evasion does nothing while you're in your vehicle. For that, you need to go Ace Pilot and pick up Vehicular Evasion.

Edit: No, wait, they were idiots. It does apply, according to Starships. (Especially stupid in my opinion, as Evasion is a much stronger talent than Vehicular Evasion, but doesn't require you to enter a Prestige class for it!)

Yeah kinda silly. One proposition I heard was to make Evasion and V Evasion stack so if a weapon hits, you only take 1/4 damage. Kind of like combining block/deflect with evasion.

[Lucus Casius]

Ah, I should note, we're doing things a bit differently here for gaining feats and the stat boosts.

We get a feat every odd level, and we have stat increases every even level (So, two +1s every even level).

[Alejandro]

Ah, I should note, we're doing things a bit differently here for gaining feats and the stat boosts.

We get a feat every odd level, and we have stat increases every even level (So, two +1s every even level).

Holy crap.

Any Jedi characters could become, to put it mildly, strong.

As for you, you could take SO MANY Starship Maneuvers with those rules.

[Lucus Casius]

Holy crap.

Any Jedi characters could become, to put it mildly, strong.

As for you, you could take SO MANY Starship Maneuvers with those rules.

Glancing at the notes from the previous games this GM ran...

...Yeah, that sounds about right.

[Bahumat]

If you want to try and be more unique, a droid character might be interesting. If you want to keep that force sensitivity, play one of those sentient force rock people (pfffft, like any droid worthy of the name would need to have the crutch that supports the survival of so many unworthy meatbags). It makes your con a dump stat (sadly), but you get some fun stuff out of it, depending on your chassis and type. Hell, a heroic Astromech functions perfectly well as a Pilot.

It gives you a niche, if that's your thing (it most certainly is for me! I love being niche!)

I believe pilot also applies to ground vehicles? So get yourself something to use on the ground too. A basilisk war droid springs to mind....:smallcool:
Otherwise, even a small thing like a speeder bike works wonders for pilot-strong characters. Being a driver is ALWAYS useful for any party in any system, primarily since you're the go-to man for any form or getaway or transport issues. Maybe get computer use or something similiar as your backup focus? Hacking for fun and profit is underestimated and useful outside of combat!

Now that I read over it, taking a droid might solve that 'no dex' issue if you want to have stealth- sink that low previous dex into con (which gets ignored due to being a droid) and pump your dex. I believe astromechs get increased dex from their body type?

Losing the starter feat for not being a human isn't going to slow you down because of your increased number of feats. You'll be squishier that most due to not having a con, but you'll have high stats where it counts, access to integrated weaponry and droid armours and lots of FUN things. Like universal translators (always a worthy investment).

[Alejandro]

Glancing at the notes from the previous games this GM ran...

...Yeah, that sounds about right.

Now I understand why, as you said, 'everyone is building Jedi and gunslingers.' I hope the GM fully grasps what they are in for. The Jedi alone can become monstrously strong; they'll pump their CHA every other level and take Skill Focus: UTF until they're always going to connect at maximum power against any defense, and block or deflect nearly any attack (or rebuke it, or negate it...)

The only way to counter it would be with enemies that have the same level of power, or extremely biased situations. Those don't sound fun.

[Xaragos]

Alejandro is right, that twist to the game can break it though the intent is to benefit the characters.

The droid force user are species: Shard and force tradition: Iron Knight.