Another Natural Attack/Iterative question.

[Bloodgruve]

Starting a new campaign and the DM has made a homebrew race and is open to suggestions with it.

The race has 2 primary natural attacks in the form of wing buffets. 1d4 dmg non lethal bludgeoning.

1) If my BAB is +6 wielding a 2h sword what would my attack sequence look like?

2H Sword +6 / 2H Sword +1 / Wing +1 / Wing +1 ?

2) What would it look like if I added items that turned the wing buffets into lethal damage ('Wing Blades') and upped the damage dice, would this change it from a natural weapon to a standard weapon? If so what would my attack sequence look like?

Appreciated
Blood~

[ddude987]

Starting a new campaign and the DM has made a homebrew race and is open to suggestions with it.

The race has 2 primary natural attacks in the form of wing buffets. 1d4 dmg non lethal bludgeoning.

1) If my BAB is +6 wielding a 2h sword what would my attack sequence look like?

2H Sword +6 / 2H Sword +1 / Wing +1 / Wing +1 ?

2) What would it look like if I added items that turned the wing buffets into lethal damage ('Wing Blades') and upped the damage dice, would this change it from a natural weapon to a standard weapon? If so what would my attack sequence look like?

Appreciated
Blood~

1.yes
2. they would remain natural weapons as far as I can tell. natural weapons normally do lethal damage to begin with, so changing the damage type shouldn't change the type of weapon.

[sepchan]

Starting a new campaign and the DM has made a homebrew race and is open to suggestions with it.

The race has 2 primary natural attacks in the form of wing buffets. 1d4 dmg non lethal bludgeoning.

1) If my BAB is +6 wielding a 2h sword what would my attack sequence look like?

2H Sword +6 / 2H Sword +1 / Wing +1 / Wing +1 ?

2) What would it look like if I added items that turned the wing buffets into lethal damage ('Wing Blades') and upped the damage dice, would this change it from a natural weapon to a standard weapon? If so what would my attack sequence look like?

Appreciated
Blood~

1) Yes - 2H Sword +6 / 2H Sword +1 / Wing +1 / Wing +1

2) It sounds like the “Wing Blades” are manufactured weapons that you are attaching to the wings. If that is correct then you would be limited by your Iterative attacks from BAB with offhand penalties as if you were using two-weapon fighting.

[Namfuak]

Starting a new campaign and the DM has made a homebrew race and is open to suggestions with it.

The race has 2 primary natural attacks in the form of wing buffets. 1d4 dmg non lethal bludgeoning.

1) If my BAB is +6 wielding a 2h sword what would my attack sequence look like?

2H Sword +6 / 2H Sword +1 / Wing +1 / Wing +1 ?

2) What would it look like if I added items that turned the wing buffets into lethal damage ('Wing Blades') and upped the damage dice, would this change it from a natural weapon to a standard weapon? If so what would my attack sequence look like?

Appreciated
Blood~

1. You don't get two attacks when using them as secondary attacks, I don't think. So Sword +6/+1/ and Wing +1. EDIT: Found evidence to the contrary. It seems the poster above me is right.

2. It's a homebrew item, so without the item description you can't really say. That said, "wing blades" are clearly not natural, so I would probably call it a normal weapon.

[Urpriest]

1. As everyone has said, that's the right routine. Note that since the wing buffets become secondary you're only getting 1/2 Str to damage with them.

2. The items in question will either tell you that they modify the natural attack, or that they function as a manufactured weapon. If you post the relevant text we can help you see which it's indicating.

[Bloodgruve]

2. The items in question will either tell you that they modify the natural attack, or that they function as a manufactured weapon. If you post the relevant text we can help you see which it's indicating.

The item stats aren't fleshed out yet so its kinda up in the air. Is it very common to have items that modify natural attacks? I would probably get more out of just leaving the natural attacks as is without blowing feats for it.

Say the 'Wing Blades' are manufactured weapons, what would I need to take advantage of them? Get an attack out of each and an attack from a held weapon?

TY
Blood~

[Lhurgyof]

The item stats aren't fleshed out yet so its kinda up in the air. Is it very common to have items that modify natural attacks? I would probably get more out of just leaving the natural attacks as is without blowing feats for it.

Say the 'Wing Blades' are manufactured weapons, what would I need to take advantage of them? Get an attack out of each and an attack from a held weapon?

TY
Blood~

Multi weapon fighting.

[Urpriest]

The item stats aren't fleshed out yet so its kinda up in the air. Is it very common to have items that modify natural attacks? I would probably get more out of just leaving the natural attacks as is without blowing feats for it.

Say the 'Wing Blades' are manufactured weapons, what would I need to take advantage of them and get an attack out of each and an attack from a held weapon?

TY
Blood~

Ok, so you're looking for how these things work in practice, so as to figure out how to design the item?

In that case, I'd look at the following two possibilities:

First, you can make it an item that enhances an existing attack. Maybe it changes the damage to slashing, maybe it increases damage by a size category or adds a d6. This way, it just uses the same attack as your ordinary wings, and you can make your manufactured attacks as primaries as normal.

Second, you can make it its own manufactured weapon. Take a look at the Mouthpick in Lords of Madness for inspiration. Basically, you would give up your wing attacks and instead make manufactured weapon attacks with your wing blades. If you wanted to make attacks with both your wing blades and a handheld weapon you would have to use Two-Weapon Fighting, treating one of them as an off-hand weapon.

Edit:

Multi weapon fighting.

I've been assuming that, if you went the manufactured weapon route, the two wing blades would only count as one weapon. If you wanted them to be two weapons and to wield them alongside a third (handheld) weapon, you would need at least three arms, since Multiweapon Fighting only gives you as many off-hand attacks as you have extra arms.

[Yogibear41]

The Urskan a monster from frostburn (think volibear/ golden compass bears) attach steeltips to their claws to increased the damage from 1d8 to 1d12, but in their write up the attacks are still made as though they are natural weapons.

[Bloodgruve]

Much appreciated, TY. This explanation helps.

Blood~

[Deaxsa]

1. As everyone has said, that's the right routine. Note that since the wing buffets become secondary you're only getting 1/2 Str to damage with them.

if he only uses wings that turn, or only uses a single wing, do the -5 attack and -1/2 str "penalties" go away?

[Urpriest]

if he only uses wings that turn, or only uses a single wing, do the -5 attack and -1/2 str "penalties" go away?

Yes, but only if the wings were a primary attack to begin with. Some weapons start out as secondary.