Kvothe vs Harry Potter - Who Would Prevail?

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Who would win in a fight between Kvothe and Harry Potter?

Details ...

Kvothe joins the fight right after the events of The Wise Man's Fear, at age eighteen, after having recovered from his hangover.
Harry joins the fight after the events of The Deathly Hallows, at age seventeen, after having recovered from his fight with Voldemort.
Kvothe has his shade, his sword, and his lute.
Harry has his wand, his broom, and his invisibility cloak.
Both start out on opposite sides of a forest, not knowing eachoher's locations.
Both know nothing of the other, save for the fact that they must die.

[thethird]

I would give it to Kvothe just for two factors. He has a lot of experience, surely more than harry potter. And killing would be psychologically much harder for Harry, so Kvothe can exploit any moment of doubt.

Also are we talking about young Kvothe or old barman narrator Kvothe?

[Shyftir]

It's hard to say Harry's magic is essentially limitless while kvothe's is dependenty on actual energy sources. But then there is whether or not Kvothe can Name Harry, if Kvothe manages that it's his all the way. Otherwise Harry's overt unlimited magic eventually becomes too hard to stop for Kvothe who has to deal with the (altered) laws of thermodynamics.... err Sympathy.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

I would give it to Kvothe just for two factors. He has a lot of experience, surely more than harry potter. And killing would be psychologically much harder for Harry, so Kvothe can exploit any moment of doubt.

Also are we talking about young Kvothe or old barman narrator Kvothe?
Bare in mind that Harry did find and destroy a few horcruxes, face a dragon, face some evil mermaids, brave the forbidden forest, navigate a monster-infested hedge maze, fight many Death Eaters, break into some things, and take on Voldemort.

I said in the original post that Kvothe is the age he was at the end of The Wise Man's Fear.


It's hard to say Harry's magic is essentially limitless while kvothe's is dependenty on actual energy sources. But then there is whether or not Kvothe can Name Harry, if Kvothe manages that it's his all the way. Otherwise Harry's overt unlimited magic eventually becomes too hard to stop for Kvothe who has to deal with the (altered) laws of thermodynamics.... err Sympathy.
In the books, Harry was portrayed as something of a mediocre wizard. Though Kvothe's magic system is weaker, he is much better at it, and faster to adapt.

[Kurgan]

Kvothe is a city rat, several times through the series he has found a new town/city and mastered the ins and outs of it. Considering the challenge involves the two of them entering different sides of the city, I could picture Kvothe doing something simple like hitting up a pawn shop, buying a crossbow, and slinking along rooftops until he can catch Harry unaware.

And I think the question is: End of Wise Man's Fear can mean either end of the book, or end of the story within the book, if that makes sense.

[thethird]

Oh, certainly, but has Harry killed humans in cold blood before? He is courageous for sure, but would he ambush Kvothe with an Avada Kedabra? I doubt it, while I can certainly see Kvothe sniping Harry without any second thought.

On the magic system I would say that Kvothe's magic system is on par or even stronger than the Magic in the HP verse. Note that by magic I am referring to naming and not thermodynamics. I can also see Kvothe understanding Harry and thus being more able to name it, since they share some similarities in their back stories.

And yes...


And I think the question is: End of Wise Man's Fear can mean either end of the book, or end of the story within the book, if that makes sense.

that is the question.

[Melayl]

Kvothe, all the way.

1. He's a well trained fighter, which Harry most definitely is not.
2. He's actually intentionally killed humans before, Harry has not.
3. He's a lot more ruthless than Harry.
4. He's as talented at his magic as Harry is at his own. I think Kvothe's magic is at least as powerful and functional as Harry's. He would need something of Harry's to make a decent connection with.
5. If he can Name things (at least Wind at will), it becomes even more skewed in his favor.
6. He's a hell of a lot smarter than Harry. Let's face it: Harry muddled through and survived mostly by luck and the intervention of others. Kvothe thoughthis way through most of his adventures.

[Kitten Champion]

I'd give it to Kvothe.

Let's set aside ethical complications, although they do not favour Harry who wouldn't use deadly force even against Voldemort.

Defensive magic in Harry Potter is sort of like having a single gun that fires relatively slow yet potentially instantly deadly bullets upon voice command. This certainly works with other Wizards, but they all operate on the assumption that their adversary is using the same, like boxers and fists.

I think Kvothe could and would simply shoot Harry with a gun or whatever projectile weapon he could build, buy, or steal in this city. Wizards in HP might underestimate the value of muggle weaponry, but there's no obvious reason that Kvothe wouldn't even bother using them.

While sure, Harry isn't ignorant of guns and the like, nor dismisses muggle ways as naturally inferior. He has existed in and trained in the milieu of the wizarding world since pubescence and wasn't exactly a street-wise individual prior to that. Kvothe is ingenious, vicious to an extent, and trained extensively to think flexibly and logically. He would likely use all the resources around him to his benefit.

[Gnome Alone]

Kvothe could pretty easily disarm Harry - form a sympathetic link from his wand to a twig. Snap it.

But Kvothe is hardly a ruthless murderer. I can't see him blindly following an injunction to go slaughter a fellow 17 year old Chosen One orphan wizard.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

And I think the question is: End of Wise Man's Fear can mean either end of the book, or end of the story within the book, if that makes sense.

The end of the story within the book. Kvothe is eighteen.

[Forum Explorer]

Kvothe and I know almost nothing about him! :smallbiggrin:


Really it's a matter of Harry being in his worst possible environment, surrounded by Muggles.

Harry might not suffer from the same retarded thoughts that dominate the entire wizarding world but he's essentially lived under a rock being trained to think poorly of Muggles for 7 years.

Also Harry really didn't earn many if any of his wins. There was always something or someone backing him up, like being the prophesied one, or going up against an opponent who lacks pattern recognition.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

I revised the details, so as to be more interesting, and to even the match a bit.

[Gnome Alone]

Kvothe's seventeenth birthday party happens near the end of The Wise Man's Fear, though as Simmon notes, he may be physically older by several years because of his time in the Fae.

[Forum Explorer]

Alright now I don't know. In a forest? I'd need to actually know what Kvothe can do.

[Eldan]

Kvothe has lived alone in the forests as a kid. This isn't going to Harry either.

[Jayngfet]

Harry has instant teleportation and invisibility. If I remember correctly Kvothe can't use sympathy unless he knows where the object is and it's properties. If it comes down to a melee fight it goes to Kvothe but otherwise Harry can just get the drop on him, hit him with a disarming/jelly legs/leg locker/knee reversal/freezing spell combo that won't kill him, but will render him totally unable to fight back if he doesn't feel like going lethal. If he does he has a ranged slashing spell and will go right for the jugular.

[Melayl]

Remember, Kvothe has his Shade. Harry will have as much trouble finding him as Kvothe will have finding Harry. Maybe more.

Kvothe will know Harry's human, anyway. He can make a sympathetic link between himself and Harry on that level. Sure, it's weak, but how many other humans will be in that forest? Should be pretty easy for him to narrow it down...

[Weimann]

Harry has some advantages. For one, he has unlimited and diverse magic. Unless Kvothe has the time to mess around with Sympathy, he only has his Naming readily at hand, and while it was a bit since I read The Wise Man's Fear now, I don't think he had proper control over any other Name but Wind, right?

Add to this that Harry has several incapacitation spells, like Stupefy for example, which may cause him to go all out faster, knowing he won't immediately kill.

Harry has his broomstick, so he can fly, but I'm not sure how useful that'd be in a wood. For tactical advantage, possibly, but not strategical. I'd not want to fly at high speed through thick branches.

He also has an invisibility cloak, but Kvothe has a cloak of his own and, as said before, the Name of the Wind. Given that he has lived a big part of his life in the forest, I'll give ground advantage to him: if he can spot Harry somehow, he can probably blow the cloak off him.

Needless to say, if Harry even get even close to melee range, he's toast. Lethani to the face.

In the end, I'd probably give it Kvothe, but it's not quite a sure thing in my head.

[Seerow]

Harry has instant teleportation and invisibility. If I remember correctly Kvothe can't use sympathy unless he knows where the object is and it's properties.


This isn't true. In the advanced sympathy classes they were practicing doing stuff like lighting one of a dozen identical candles in another room, or one of several different rooms. Or cutting a specific card out of a deck of cards without affecting the others. That sort of thing.

It really just comes down to how much they each know about each other. If all they have is a picture and "Kill this guy", then it's hard for Kvothe to leverage many of his abilities to his advantage. But if he knows anything about Harry, his magic, or anything like that, I'm calling it a sure thing for him.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Whichever character's author is writing the story. These guys only ever survive by author fiat anyway.

[Emmerask]

Kvothe, all the way.
6. He's a hell of a lot smarter than Harry. Let's face it: Harry muddled through and survived mostly by luck and the intervention of others. Kvothe thoughthis way through most of his adventures.

Well it depends a bit on how you interpret the train station chapter in the last book, if it was actually Dubmledores Ghost/implented memory then I agree
but if it was a personification of Harrys actual intelligence/insightfulness
that may be in his future then the previous books don´t portrait what he is actually capable of.

Overall I would still give it to Kvothe since Harry is not ruthless enough and pretty much incapable of killing someone (except when he is really angry).

[shadow_archmagi]

Kvothe is a ninja. Harry is a poorly built Wizard who relies on verbal and somatic components.

I'd say that old saying about knives and guns applies here- If Kvothe can sneak up on Harry (which he can, easily) then Kvothe can kill him before he draws.

[Estrecca]

Harry has a broom that lets him fly silently, an invisibility cloak for stealth and has knowledge of a spell that detects human presence (Homenum Revelio).

With these advantages, Kvothe winning can only happen if Harry devotes sustained and determined effort to losing.

Dunno the original scenario, that apparently was different, but as is Kvothe goes down to death from above.

[Emmerask]

Flying on implements might not be the best idea against someone who knows the name of the wind :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

[Killer Angel]

Whichever character's author is writing the story. These guys only ever survive by author fiat anyway.

In this regard, I believe that Kvothe is less unnerving that HP, and a little more smart / self sufficient.

[Kurgan]

Hmmm...new scenario evens the field a bit, though if memory serves, Kvothe learned quite a bit about tracking in Wise Man's Fear while hunting down the bandits.

Also, at worst, I can picture Kvothe doing something similar to what he did to the bandits to Harry. Say, sees his opponent requires holding object, creates sympathetic link between their hands, stabs self in hand.

On the comments of Naming the Wind, I thought that Kvothe had not mastered that yet, but could only call it up at certain situations.

Never finished Harry Potter books [read 1-6], and has been a long time since I read them, but I would probably hand the victory to Kvothe, since he knows how to track people and is good at moving around unseen even without magical aid. Harry might rely too much on his cloak, not realizing the tracks he leaves

Broomstick isn't best option in the woods, as he is either above the trees and cannot see through them too well, or is dodging between trees. Think the speeder scene from Return of the Jedi, just with a teenager on a broom.

[Trixie]

Harry has access to Elder Wand and Unseen Cloak, plus that Stone capable of reversing death. Plus, some neat lesser items. Aren't these three most powerful artefacts on Earth anyway? :smallconfused:

The way I see it - competent Harry can win easily. Simply fly above trees, cast Fiendfyre, whistle as enemy burns alive. Or just locate him, apparate behind, and Kadavra his ass using multiwand attack.

Problem is, Harry is not competent http://i.imgur.com/N2nfK.png

[Weimann]

On the comments of Naming the Wind, I thought that Kvothe had not mastered that yet, but could only call it up at certain situations.Again, it was a long time since I read it, but I think it's implied that he has a basic but consistent mastery of the Name.

[Aotrs Commander]

Kvothe and I know almost nothing about him! :smallbiggrin:


I am in the same postion, I and would have to concur. Harry is just not veteran combatant (aside from against other wizards and as noted, the pants-on-head-insularity of Wizarding Britian makes them pretty dubious against muggle armed forces, given how much they'd under estimate them) and his lack of killer instinct is sort of his defining traits. Hell, I suspect if you told him to flat out kill a dude he'd just refuse and at the very least be conflicted enough about it his hesitation would be exploitable. And wizarding magic is kinda cumbersome in comparison to weapons and is also reliant on a fairly fragile stick. Which a veteran might be able to work around Harry is pretty good considering, but there's a reason they tend to take about wizards in HP "duelling" and less "fighting".



I wouldn't, on a bad day put long odds on Harry being able to beat Timmy Turner, to be honest! (Mainly because Timmy would cheat...!)

Actually, that would make for an amusing Verses, wouldn't it, likely just for the expression of what-in-the-merry-heck on Harry's face...!

[pendell]

Agree with Aotrs Commander. In any universe where he is not operating under Rowling's plot armor, a wizard whose sole offensive options are "expelliamus" and "stupefy" isn't going to live long against someone who is willing, able, and capable of fighting for reals.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[thethird]

Problem is, Harry is not competent http://i.imgur.com/N2nfK.png

It would be really fun if it were to be the harry of the methods of rationality though, that Harry is surely competent.

[Emmerask]

Though if Harry would use luck potion he would win, just a thought :smallsmile:

Then again the luck potion should have been used a lot more during the important fights...so maybe the wizards are just too stupid :smallbiggrin:

[The Glyphstone]

Harry has access to Elder Wand and Unseen Cloak, plus that Stone capable of reversing death. Plus, some neat lesser items. Aren't these three most powerful artefacts on Earth anyway? :smallconfused:

The way I see it - competent Harry can win easily. Simply fly above trees, cast Fiendfyre, whistle as enemy burns alive. Or just locate him, apparate behind, and Kadavra his ass using multiwand attack.

Problem is, Harry is not competent http://i.imgur.com/N2nfK.png

That's not 'competent Harry', though, any more than Superman throwing all his enemies into the sun (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x271/SupremeMod/biggrecheese-batman-vs-superman-thu.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/goku-vs-superman-vs-naruto-vs-batman.188565264/&h=517&w=499&sz=115&tbnid=_v1U7ScMVLbYqM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=87&zoom=1&usg=__ddwM385FxStYwwV1hr8YBYX6KfU=&docid=DxqG9l2MyK8dzM&sa=X&ei=4LBsUd2eJubh0QG5k4CQBw&ved=0CDUQ9QEwAQ&dur=2153) is 'competent Superman'...that's an entirely new character who just happens to share the same name/appearance/powers as Harry or Supes. A 'Harry Potter' who throws around Dark Magic like it's candy is so far deviant from the original character it's basically useless for the purposes of this versus.

That said, while I haven't read NotW, it's sounding to me like Kvothe curbstomps Harry pretty effectively on the grounds of being more ruthless and combat-capable (a direct derivative of him being written for an older audience from the start).

[Killer Angel]

I wouldn't, on a bad day put long odds on Harry being able to beat Timmy Turner, to be honest! (Mainly because Timmy would cheat...!)

Harry isn't in the same league of Timmy Turner. That's real magic! :smallbiggrin:

[The Glyphstone]

Harry isn't in the same league of Timmy Turner. That's real magic! :smallbiggrin:

Yeah, but Timmy makes Harry look like a Mensa member, so having much more powerful magic is sort of 'balanced'.

Actually, that could be an amusing matchup.

[Killer Angel]

Actually, that could be an amusing matchup.

Indeed. Would Vicky be a wild card? Harry is a child too, so he could be a valid target for her dictatorial instinct...

[Seerow]

Indeed. Would Vicky be a wild card? Harry is a child too, so he could be a valid target for her dictatorial instinct...

I doubt it. At the timeframe being discussed, he's her age or older.

[Flickerdart]

I believe one of Kvothe's teachers remarks that using Wind to force air back into a person's lungs is a pretty advanced use of naming magic, so he's not basic at it by any means (even though he has the one name). While he hasn't done it in the book, I don't see why he can't reverse the process and pull the air out of Harry's lungs, making all of his spells useless. Or the wand-snapping thing.

If it were "a competent wizard from the HPverse vs Kvothe" it'd be easy to call because of the sheer range of magic available to the former, but Harry doesn't know or use very many spells, and when he does use them, he just blasts his enemies until a hex lands. Kvothe uses his magics much more intelligently (sympathy is much more open-ended than HP magic, so he is at a huge advantage here), and also has plenty of nonmagical skills.

[Mewtarthio]

Well it depends a bit on how you interpret the train station chapter in the last book, if it was actually Dubmledores Ghost/implented memory then I agree
but if it was a personification of Harrys actual intelligence/insightfulness
that may be in his future then the previous books don´t portrait what he is actually capable of.

...I suppose? :smallconfused: And if Dumbledore was actually the almighty Gnostic demiurge Ialdaboth, for whom Harry is just a mindwiped alter-ego, then Harry would have a serious advantage. Unless, of course, Felurian is actually hiding unnoticed in Kvothe's pocket, ready to open fire with her previously-unmentioned Nuclear Fusion Eye Beams.

What I'm saying is we should probably stick to things that are actually mentioned in the books.

[Killer Angel]

I doubt it. At the timeframe being discussed, he's her age or older.

Yep, but the hypothesis was about a new matchup, so the starting conditions could be different.
(The Hogwarts Express is really derailing, now...)

[LoneStarNorth]

I haven't read any HP and haven't even seen all the movies, but I'm pretty sure Kvothe is leagues smarter and more experienced than Harry, and from what other people are saying, much more willing to injure or kill another human being.

If it was a nonlethal contest then Harry might have an edge due to all his fancy no-regard-for-laws-of-physics magic, but if it's to the death... I think they'd actually end up trying to work together to escape the situation. But if they couldn't find a way, Kvothe would have been using the time they spent together to figure out Harry's weaknesses (needs a wand?) and would be prepared to exploit them ruthlessly.

[Gnome Alone]

Needless to say, if Harry even get even close to melee range, he's toast. Lethani to the face.
Stabbing Harry Potter in the face is not of the Lethani.

[Flickerdart]

Stabbing Harry Potter in the face is not of the Lethani.
Isn't it, though?

[Dr.Epic]

Well, the average Harry Potter character has the intellect of a 5 year old, and the most brilliant, powerful wizards in Harry Potter have the intellect of at best an 8 year old - maybe a 9 year old but that's pushing it. So it all comes down to if Kvothe can outsmart a child.

[Gnome Alone]

Isn't it, though?

Strong reservations, elaborate respect. I guess it could be.

[Acanous]

It seems that Harry is very outmatched, by forum posts.



Alright. This thread is now about Harry Potter VS Timmy Turner. Both are 13, Vicky is babysitting, and the setting is the Dursley's house.
The Fairy government will take away the Fairies if anyone but Timmy finds out about them. Harry will be in epic trouble if he casts any wand-magic, but has his broom and invisibility cloak.

The Goal:
survive Vicky, make Dudley miserable.

[Lord Raziere]

Timmy Turner.

"I wish that Dudley kid was becoming physically fit at fat camp."

"I wish I had a better baby sitter"

"I wish that Potter kid had a better family."

Done. None of these violate any of Da Rules. since they would all be improvements, and not wishing harm on anyone, while still making Dudley miserable since he is fat and thus will be miserable from exercising. they might have harmful consequences but wishes themselves can't be harmful.

Of course Timmy Turner probably isn't intelligent enough to think of any of these, but hey, no one in Fairly Oddparents is intelligent. :smalltongue:

[DaedalusMkV]

On the other hand, knowing Timmy Turner, I expect it would be more like:

"I wish that Dudley kid was miserable. I win!"

"Uh, Timmy, that's against Da Rules. You can't wish harm on another."

"Oh yeah? I guess I'll just have to do it myself then. I wish that I was that Dudley kid's dad! Then I'll be able to punish him all I want!"

*Timmy, in the process of becoming a middle-aged man, loses his Fairy Godparents. Unable to make any further wishes, hijinks ensue.*

Meanwhile, Vicky bullies Harry relentlessly until the poor kid, who's only just finished his first year at Hogwards, grabs his invisibility cloak and begins his own trademark series of pranks and investigations, completely losing focus on Dudley and instead doing everything he can to mess with the abusive authority figure du jour, as he has an unfortunate tendancy to do when faced with situations like this.

In the end, Vicky winds up with a severe case of pantsonheadiatum, Timmy manages a series of wildly unlikely coincidences that return him to his original self and gets his fairy godparents back, having learned no lesson of any particular value, and Harry escapes disaster by the skin of his teeth repeatedly. Through no direct intention of anyone involved, Dudley has been repeatedly humiliated and spent three hours as a frog and ten minutes as supreme ruler of the cosmos, during which he ate three entire pigs worth of bacon and his body weight in chocolate, which has the net result of making him violently ill. Unable to conclude exactly who caused Dudley's misery, in large part because between them the combatants wouldn't be able to find a logical argument with a map and a guidebook, the scenario ends in a draw. Both sides had an easy means of completing their objective, but quickly screwed up, became horribly distracted and forgot what they were doing in the first place, and Dudley only came to harm by chance because that's what happens in both characters' fiction to harmless antagonist figures.

[Aotrs Commander]

On the other hand, knowing Timmy Turner, I expect it would be more like:

"I wish that Dudley kid was miserable. I win!"

"Uh, Timmy, that's against Da Rules. You can't wish harm on another."

"Oh yeah? I guess I'll just have to do it myself then. I wish that I was that Dudley kid's dad! Then I'll be able to punish him all I want!"

*Timmy, in the process of becoming a middle-aged man, loses his Fairy Godparents. Unable to make any further wishes, hijinks ensue.*

Meanwhile, Vicky bullies Harry relentlessly until the poor kid, who's only just finished his first year at Hogwards, grabs his invisibility cloak and begins his own trademark series of pranks and investigations, completely losing focus on Dudley and instead doing everything he can to mess with the abusive authority figure du jour, as he has an unfortunate tendancy to do when faced with situations like this.

In the end, Vicky winds up with a severe case of pantsonheadiatum, Timmy manages a series of wildly unlikely coincidences that return him to his original self and gets his fairy godparents back, having learned no lesson of any particular value, and Harry escapes disaster by the skin of his teeth repeatedly. Through no direct intention of anyone involved, Dudley has been repeatedly humiliated and spent three hours as a frog and ten minutes as supreme ruler of the cosmos, during which he ate three entire pigs worth of bacon and his body weight in chocolate, which has the net result of making him violently ill. Unable to conclude exactly who caused Dudley's misery, in large part because between them the combatants wouldn't be able to find a logical argument with a map and a guidebook, the scenario ends in a draw. Both sides had an easy means of completing their objective, but quickly screwed up, became horribly distracted and forgot what they were doing in the first place, and Dudley only came to harm by chance because that's what happens in both characters' fiction to harmless antagonist figures.

Win. Pure, unadulterated Win.

(Also, I love that my off-hand comment has not just derailed, but altered the course of the thread!)

[Themrys]

Stabbing Harry Potter in the face is not of the Lethani.

Since when has Kvothe actually cared about the Lethani? I see no difference in his beviour prior to being taught the Lethani and afterwards. He gives clever answers, sure, and seems to have understood the concept, but he doesn't actually follow it. I got the impression that he uses the fighting moves without the moral/philosophic principle behind them.

Or are we now talking about, say, Tempi vs Harry Potter?

[Gnome Alone]

Or are we now talking about, say, Tempi vs Harry Potter?

K seems pretty ethical to me, but I was imagining what I said as an Adem admonishing K not to go murder HP, so I guess I get where you're coming from.

[Themrys]

K seems pretty ethical to me, but I was imagining what I said as an Adem admonishing K not to go murder HP, so I guess I get where you're coming from.

Kote might be ethical, but Kvothe ... he did leave a rapist to die, with an extra ration of water to extend his suffering, if I remember correctly. Of course, rapists are acceptable targets for cruelty, but still. I would have expected the Lethani teachings to have some noticeable influence on him.

He certainly does need an Adem admonishing him. I wonder whether he will get that in the third novel.

[Mewtarthio]

Kvothe is pretty much immune to admonishment. If you try to teach him, he'll just outsmart you and make you think he's learned his lesson. He learns by suffering horrible consequences.

As for Timmy, Daedelus already won that, so I don't really have anything more to say. Still, there's no shortage of magical child prodigies out there to pit Harry against...

[The Glyphstone]

Harry vs. Artemis Fowl? First combo that springs to mind - slightly annoying child prodigies who are way more competent/successful than they have any logical right to be.

[pendell]

How about this one: Harry Potter vs. Artemis Entreri (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artemis_Entreri). Entreri has been summoned from the forgotten realms into the Potterverse and given one clear, unmistakable directive: Kill Harry Potter. Let us assume he has been offered enough loot to secure his full, willing cooperation and the original summoning was consensual.

On one side: A magical prodigy with the tactical finesse of a stunned pigeon. On the other, the most brutal killer of the forgotten realms, able to fight Drizzt Do'urden repeatedly to a draw. Let us assume he is not able to bring over anything from the forgotten realms but the death eaters will outfit him with anything he wants from their own stores. They will also give him sufficient money to buy muggle equipment if he so desires.

Fight.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[The Glyphstone]

A murderous,trained adult assassin experienced in defeating vastly more powerful magicians versus a child who doesn't know he's coming. That's not a contest, that's a turkey shoot.

[Seffbasilisk]

Kvothe fights to Win. Harry flails towards his objectives.

In Kvothe's favor, he has the name of the wind (flying? Invisibility cloak? I think not.)

In Harry's however, he has Apparation. It doesn't seem like much, but when Kvothe shuts him down, shatters his wand, and has him bleeding, he can just poof away, and come back when he's feeling it.

Even if Harry tried the crossbow route, Kvothe has the Bloodless.

I think Kvothe would have it, but Harry could make it difficult. Far more likely, is that Harry would seek out whoever set this up and wreck their whole world (burn it down, smash it up, he causes quite a bit of collateral damage in his wake) while Kvothe was more akin to 'bugger this for a lark', as he's better things to do than smash another Arcanist.

For those still debating it though, would a Giller protect against a full-body bind?

[thethird]

How about this one: Harry Potter vs. Artemis Entreri (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artemis_Entreri).#


A murderous,trained adult assassin experienced in defeating vastly more powerful magicians versus a child who doesn't know he's coming. That's not a contest, that's a turkey shoot.

Nothing else is necessary.

Even if it were Kvothe vs Entreri I would give it to Entreri.

[DaedalusMkV]

Hmm... Alright, how about something a little more interesting? Let's try on a different Wizard named Harry.

Kvothe versus Harry Dresden. Kvothe is set at the same level as the initial setup for this battle (the end of Wise Man's Fear, after returning to the University). Dresden at the end of Dead Beat. Battleground is an unfamiliar forest, with standard but not particularly threatening wildlife. The combatants start five kilometers apart with no knowledge of the other's location or capabilities except for what they can figure out by applying the similarities in their magic systems. Kvothe starts with all of his possessions at the time, Harry with his revolver, Blasting Rod and staff, plus Bob the Skull. The goal is to neutralize the other combatant without killing them, though debilitating injuries are acceptable.

Who wins?

[Chen]

Hmm... Alright, how about something a little more interesting? Let's try on a different Wizard named Harry.

Kvothe versus Harry Dresden. Kvothe is set at the same level as the initial setup for this battle (the end of Wise Man's Fear, after returning to the University). Dresden at the end of Dead Beat. Battleground is an unfamiliar forest, with standard but not particularly threatening wildlife. The combatants start five kilometers apart with no knowledge of the other's location or capabilities except for what they can figure out by applying the similarities in their magic systems. Kvothe starts with all of his possessions at the time, Harry with his revolver, Blasting Rod and staff, plus Bob the Skull. The goal is to neutralize the other combatant without killing them, though debilitating injuries are acceptable.

Who wins?

Might be better to start a new thread for this I'd say.

[Mewtarthio]

What level is Dresden at the time? If we're talking Storm Front, Kvothe actually has a decent chance (Kvothe is probably more deadly in a fight than Victor Sells). If we're talking Cold Days, Dresden wins hands down.

[DaedalusMkV]

What level is Dresden at the time? If we're talking Storm Front, Kvothe actually has a decent chance (Kvothe is probably more deadly in a fight than Victor Sells). If we're talking Cold Days, Dresden wins hands down.

End of Dead Beat, like I said.

Obviously, Dresden becomes exponentially more dangerous as the series goes on (barring Ghost Story, of course), so I picked what I see as a midpoint between the relatively poor combatant of Storm Front and the guy who acts as the bogeyman to the bogeymen in Changes. Obviously there's little Kvothe could do to slow Harry down by Cold Days, much less take him out without killing him.

[Mewtarthio]

End of Dead Beat, like I said.

So you did. My mistake.

I'd say Harry's main advantages are neutralized in an explicitly nonlethal fight. The stakes just aren't high enough; he's at his best when he's forced to resort to drastic measures. Fire magic in a dense forest is ill-advised in the best of circumstances, and that goes double when he needs his target alive. His force spells might be handy, though he still would have to pull his punches a bit. The fact is that Dresden doesn't have a lot of ways to incapacitate someone (not without mind magic, at least, and he doesn't really study that on account of it being an automatic death sentence).

Kvothe, naturally, is far better off. If he manages to get a sympathetic link to Dresden, he can strike with all the precision he needs (Dresden doesn't appear to have any defense against that sort of attack; even in Cold Days he appears to believe that someone with a lock of his hair could take him down with impunity). And, of course, he could probably use the Name of Wind to just suffocate Harry into submission, though his Naming skills are a bit inconsistent.

[Forum Explorer]

Harry could pull some cool stuff off though. Such as Zombie Squirrels. :smallwink:

More realistically I imagine he'd try to close to close combat. Maybe use a wind spell, or his punching ring (aimed at his legs) to knock him down first.

Also he can use Bob to track, and even possess small animals, like squirrels.

[DaedalusMkV]

I'd say Harry's main advantages are neutralized in an explicitly nonlethal fight.

Actually, quite the opposite. I made the fight nonlethal to put Kvothe under the same restrictions Harry has to deal with; Harry couldn't blast Kvothe with fire anyways, thanks to the whole Laws of Magic thing. He's a firm enough believer in them that even if they weren't being actively enforced, he wouldn't be able to break them thanks to the rules of his own magic system and thus wouldn't be able to shoot to kill anyways. I mean, he could just shoot Kvothe, but that puts the advantage squarely on Harry since Kvothe has no means whatsoever of countering a gun, and turns the fight into Kvothe versus some dude with a gun. In short, the nonlethal stipulation is necessary for the fight to work at all.