Best uses for the Factotum's Cunning Brilliance ability?

[Nettlekid]

At 19th level, a Factotum gets the ability to prepare three Extraordinary abilities from any base class, as though it was a level 15 member of that base class. By spending 4 inspiration points it can use that class feature for a minute. So, what are the best choice for this ability? The limitations of Ex only, a single feature (it gives the example that Flurry of Blows would not give you the monk's Unarmed Strike progression, so there's a limitation on that sort of thing), and hopefully it would be useful for more than just that minute. I'm of the opinion that spellcasting isn't an Ex ability (so you don't get it if you use Shapechange, among other things), and even if it was you would not have spells prepared for the day.

[Big Fau]

Rage, Flurry of Blows, Sneak Attack, and a few other stand out as options, if not particularly good ones.

[Gotterdammerung]

Steal an artificers craft homunculous Ex ability. You can only work on it for a few minutes a day but eventually you will finish it and have a 13 HD buddy. =)

Another dirty dirty trick. Steal Advanced Learning Ex from several of the base classes that get it. The benefit is permanent ("Once a new spell is selected, it is forever added to your spell list and can be cast just like any other spell on your list"). All you need is a class in the build with an actual spells known list to add it to lol.

[Bakeru]

Another dirty dirty trick. Steal Advanced Learning Ex from several of the base classes that get it. The benefit is permanent ("Once a new spell is selected, it is forever added to your spell list and can be cast just like any other spell on your list"). All you need is a class in the build with an actual spells known list to add it to lol.Highly doubtable.

One, you need to be Factotum 19 to get Cunning Brilliance, so this could only be usable for a gestalt or epic character.

Second, "Advanced Learning" would be a (fake) Factotum class feature, so it would be added to the factotum spell list, which is unimportant, because a Factotum doesn't use a spell list, it simply chooses from the Wizard/Sorcerer one (from which all "Advanced Learning"-classes choose, too), and it doesn't even cast spells, but spell-likes.

[Nettlekid]

Yeah, although that Advanced Learning is clever, I don't think it would be able to carry over. Which is a pity, since otherwise that's a neat trick.

Rage, Flurry of Blows, and Sneak Attack are all things that just don't interest me that much. If I wanted them I'd have gone Barbarian, Monk, or Rogue. And being able to use them for a minute/day isn't that great. I want something worth those 4 inspiration points, since that's more expensive than an extra standard action with Cunning Surge.

It's funny that you mention Gestalt, because I was actually thinking about this for a Gestalt Dragonfire Adept 20//Factotum 20. I couldn't decide what a good complimentary class for the DFA would be, since all of its stats are fairly low except for a moderate Int (still too low to go caster, though) and an out-of-this-world Con. So I was trying to think of copyable class features that would benefit that sort of character.

[ImperiousLeader]

DFA's gestalt well with Totemists (also CON focused, and the Ankheg Breastplate soulmeld gets around arcane spell failure). The free dragontouched feat allows you access to the Draconic Soulmelds, which are okay.

[Piggy Knowles]

Use it to nab a free wizard's spellbook, and then sell it?

Animal companions are explicitly (Ex), and access to a 15th-level druid companion is pretty good. Could find some use there. Not sure how to extend its usefulness beyond that one minute, though.

[Bakeru]

Use it to nab a free wizard's spellbook, and then sell it?

Animal companions are explicitly (Ex), and access to a 15th-level druid companion is pretty good. Could find some use there. Not sure how to extend its usefulness beyond that one minute, though.Even if I seem rather... negative with my complaints, those two are rather questionable, too.

If having the "Spellbook (Ex)" ability summons a spellbook into your possession, then loosing it after a minute would obviously make it vanish. More likely, the DM will throw a book at you, or say "Great, you can now write into a spellbook, but you still don't have any."

And the Animal Companion? You're not beginning play. It would be easy to rule that you'd have to do the 24 hour ritual to get a companion, but you only have the class feature for one minute, so yah...

[Randomguy]

The Knight class from phb2 has a huge amount of abilities rolled into one Knight's Challenge class feature (I think that's what it's called). You could also grab Martial Auras.

Note that the ability has to be available before level 15 but you use it as if you were a member of the class of your Factotum level, and since Martial aura's are all one class feature then you arguably get all the auras that a level 19 Martial gets.

[GutterFace]

can you possibly grab wild shape?

[Bakeru]

can you possibly grab wild shape?No. In addition to the restrictions Randomguy mentioned (available to a base class at level 15 or earlier, but used as if your level in that class was equal to your Factotum level), it also needs to be (Ex) (with some FAQ mentioning that if the ability doesn't mention what kind of ability it is, and doesn't seem supernatural, it's probably (Ex)).
Wild Shape is (Su), so not possible.

[StreamOfTheSky]

How would it work with ToB maneuvers? Could you have the maneuvers of a 15th level Swordsage, for example? A specific maneuver or stance per choice? I assume you'd need to meet IL (can you count as a 15th level martial adept?) and maneuver known requirements? Would you get the recovery mechanic with it, or could you as a 2nd selection?

[Rubik]

How would it work with ToB maneuvers? Could you have the maneuvers of a 15th level Swordsage, for example? A specific maneuver or stance per choice? I assume you'd need to meet IL (can you count as a 15th level martial adept?) and maneuver known requirements? Would you get the recovery mechanic with it, or could you as a 2nd selection?Maneuvers are (Ex) unless otherwise noted, so I imagine you could get an initiator level as one of the three initiator classes at your factotum level (along with recovery and whatnot), but you could only use maneuvers and stances that are (Ex) rather than (Su).

[edit] However, you would only be able to get maneuvers and stances you qualify for, so anything that has a number of maneuvers as prereqs would require you to have those prereqs directly available (rather than overwriting them as you normally would via level-up).

[Vaz]

Illithid Savant style fun? Or will they disappear after?

Scratch that, forgot Base class only.

[Nettlekid]

I think that for ToB you would indeed get the maneuvers of a 19th level initiator (I think, right? The ability has to be gained at 15 or lower, but you're treated as a member of that class of your Factotum level) but it still wouldn't do you much good for the same reason that spells wouldn't do you any good. Preparation time. All three initiators ready their maneuvers with 5 minutes of prep time. When you use Cunning Brilliance, you don't have any maneuvers readied, and you don't have 5 minutes to prepare. Which is a pity, because maneuvers would be pretty awesome to have.

Similarly, Binding could have been kind of interesting, but the circle takes a minute to draw on its own, and then the bargaining takes another minute unless you rush it as a full round action for a -10 on your check. I suppose you could squeeze it into the time frame with those items that have the premade circles, and then take that -10, in two rounds, so if you did that really quickly then at Factotum level 20 I think you'd get 4 vestiges of level 8 or lower, which you could do in 8 rounds. You'd be under all their control with that terrible check, so you have four bickering spirits inside you for the rest of the day, but it might be worth it.

[Soranar]

a Knight's bulwark of defense can be pretty useful to an AoO build

don't be too quick to dismiss mimicking sneak attack, as a character level 15 a rogue gets 8d6 damage bonus , but you can activate more than 1 ability at once, meaning you can also mimic a thug's sneak attack (another 8d6) and a ninja's (yet another 8d6) for a whooping 24d6 sneak attack damage for 1 minute. More than enough to assassinate something hard to kill

a rogue's special abilities are also EX , meaning you can gain any of them (including a bonus feat), again situational but still pretty useful (skill mastery comes to mind)

you may not mimic weapon proficiencies or unarmed strike but a quarterstaff is a flurry able weapon, meaning you can get full benefits from a monks flurry of blows with one, again this is situational but then most of a factotum's abilities are

a ranger's combat style is also an EX ability, meaning you can gain greater TWF for a minute if you feel like it

a dragon shaman can gain immunity to an energy type as an ex ability

an hexblade's mettle is ex

evasion and improved evasion are an ex ability

a samurai's kiai smite is ex, so are his daisho proficiencies and his 2 swords as one abilities and his improved staredown ability

every swashbuckler ability is ex

[Rubik]

I think that for ToB you would indeed get the maneuvers of a 15th level initiator, at IL 19 (I think, right?) No. You get the maneuvers of a 19th level initiator at IL 19. The level 15 cap is for what level the base class has to grant it to you at. So a level 19 factotum can grab any ability (or set of abilities) that any base class grants at or before level 15, but it's treated as though you were your level (assuming you're all factotum, anyway).

[Nettlekid]

No. You get the maneuvers of a 19th level initiator at IL 19. The level 15 cap is for what level the base class has to grant it to you at. So a level 19 factotum can grab any ability (or set of abilities) that any base class grants at or before level 15, but it's treated as though you were your level (assuming you're all factotum, anyway).

Right you are; I edited in the meantime to correct myself.

[Slipperychicken]

Maneuvers are (Ex) unless otherwise noted, so I imagine you could get an initiator level as one of the three initiator classes at your factotum level (along with recovery and whatnot), but you could only use maneuvers and stances that are (Ex) rather than (Su).


The maneuvers themselves aren't class features. The Maneuvers (Ex) class feature gives you the maneuvers. Big difference, since Cunning Brilliance only cares about whether the class feature itself is (Ex), but not whether it allows access to other types of abilities.

This should result in being allowed to select any maneuvers in the class' discipline for which the Factotum qualifies.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Well, there is Adaptive Style to make readying maneuvers just a full round action. Though to get it, I suppose you'd have to have already dipped an adept class.

[Nettlekid]

In any case, it's a moot point because the only way to ready the maneuvers to use them would be with the Adaptive Style feat, which you wouldn't be able to get because you didn't have initiator levels to begin with. And getting a feat solely to use it for one minute per day is a pretty heavy investment.

EDIT: Appropriately, Swordsaged.

[Rubik]

In any case, it's a moot point because the only way to ready the maneuvers to use them would be with the Adaptive Style feat, which you wouldn't be able to get because you didn't have initiator levels to begin with. And getting a feat solely to use it for one minute per day is a pretty heavy investment.

EDIT: Appropriately, Swordsaged.

Luckily, initiator classes are eminently dippable, and they're something you'll probably want anyway, because of the dead level at 20, if nothing else. Also, they're really good for adding some serious oomph to your fighting strength regardless.

[Nettlekid]

Hm, so go something like Factotum 16/Initiator 1/Factotum +3, picking up Adaptive Style at level 18, and choosing whichever Initiator you want the highest level maneuvers from (since you'll be able to pay off prereqs with your dip). That could be pretty interesting.

[Divide by Zero]

And getting a feat solely to use it for one minute per day is a pretty heavy investment.

Well, technically you could use it for three minutes a day, if you choose your three class features to be crusader maneuvers, swordsage maneuvers, and warblade maneuvers.

[Big Fau]

Well, technically you could use it for three minutes a day, if you choose your three class features to be crusader maneuvers, swordsage maneuvers, and warblade maneuvers.

Which isn't that shabby for a Factotum, as when you've run out of maneuvers you can just start using your Arcane Dilettante.

[Urpriest]

Plus, you can grab Adaptive Style through various means of getting a temporary bonus feat (including the Rogue ability) after you get maneuvers.

What is the full argument on what "standard character class" means? I know that the consensus is that PrCs don't count, but how thorough is the support there?

[Rubik]

Plus, you can grab Adaptive Style through various means of getting a temporary bonus feat (including the Rogue ability) after you get maneuvers.Note that the fighter's bonus feats count, and most martial adept feats are grabbable with them. Even better, you get the entire complement of bonus feats for 1 minute, so with the exception of BAB and a few tiny things like feats which require actual levels in fighter, you're a better fighter than the fighter is.


What is the full argument on what "standard character class" means? I know that the consensus is that PrCs don't count, but how thorough is the support there?There's no official definition. People tend toward "base class," but there's no guarantee that it's RAW or RAI.