OOTS #379 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

Today's comic is about 10 hours late due to extreme technical difficulties. (My laptop died.)

It's up now.

[Flame_Drake]

"I feel like he's being too soft on crime... specifically, yours."

That strip was classic.

Drake

[Axorcist]

Ok, Lord Shojo is officially very cool! That was hilarious!

[TheWanderingLlama]

Worth the wait.

The skeleton puppet...hilarious. How did they get the skeleton back, though, if the bird ate him? The title's great, too.

[Scipio]

That was great. Flinging the skeleton was classic.

[Tawkis]

That was great, nothing like a Tuesday morning smile.
"I enjoy being a partially digested skeleton."

But seriously, what is the skeleton complaining about. He's getting ressurected, he's a nameless NPC, they're supposed to be the redshirts of DnD.

[TinSoldier]

That was good! Shojo's sarcasm for the win!

[Dawnstrider_Moogle]

I am in complete agreement with Belkar.

Shojo '08! But who'll his running mate be?

Also, I can't imagine what the REAL Elan's response would have been to Shojo putting on a puppet show XD

[Comassion]

Oh my god... sooo not safe for work - much too funny, nearly laughed out loud in the office.

[SDF]

He kept him in a bag 0_o

[merric101]

i have to admit, this was the first comic i have ever read that made me fall out of my chair and hurt my bottom, but it was worth it vause it was real funny, and well, I LOVE you Giant, i mEan i REALY love you.:biggrin:

[SPoD]

I get the distinct impression that Shojo's "act" of being nuts is only partly an act. Or maybe it was all an act when he started, but now he's actually losing it a little. Because seriously, that was just wrong, dude.

Sorry to hear about the laptop, Rich. :frown:

[Haarculaneaum]

Wow. Just friggin wow. Shojo keeps getting better and better. I just can't wait for the encounter & exchange with Xykon & Shojo. Wow.
Haar

[Deuce]

Shojo totally has the feat "Biting Sarcasm".

Oh, and Nameless Wizard is being a real bonehead.

[Badmofo]

Laughed...so very hard...HAHA!

[Sir_Norbert]

Nice strip -- after we hadn't seen Shojo in a long time, he makes a good comeback. 8/10

[Haggis_McCrablice]

In answer to Llama's query: bones are indigestible, so the bird probably either vomited or excreted them. Probably the latter, since the skeleton is largely intact (imagine how big a pellet a bird that size'd poop out). I wonder if Shojo did a Topo Gigo voice during his routine. He's got a morbid sense of humor, that old buzzard....

[Kaazmodan]

Binngo Giant! You did it again..... Great strip

And I thought Belkar was against democracies.... but well, of course he was in for supporting people who support him....

[Gnarf]

Shojo '08! But who'll his running mate be?

Miko for VP :)

[TheWanderingLlama]

He kept him in a bag 0_o

What else would you do with the partially-digested dead body of a nameless NPC?

[jogom]

uhhh, the creepy wizard skeleton!!!

[Margerine A Low Fat Cannibal]

Oh look, it didn't work!

[Adder]

As much as it troubles me to agree with Belkar on anything, but Lord Shojo is really cool :smile:

[Jefepato]

Wow. Lord Shojo is awesome.

[nougat]

Belkar playing with the cat in the first two panels was priceless. Even heartless psychopaths can't resist the alure of Mr. Scruffy.

[Freelance Henchman]

Ha! Roy get posthumously PWNd by the teleport wizard, he he.

[urodivoi]

What else would you do with the partially-digested dead body of a nameless NPC?

Oh, the memory's.
How many NPC's have my party stuffed into a bag of holding for possible ressurrections...:smallredface:
One,
two,
three...

We keep the food in there too!:smalleek:

[FuziSlipers]

I love Belkar playing with the kitten with the yarn! So cute! The little details are one of the things that makes OOTS so terrific.

[Winged One]

:biggrin: Sarcasm is even better when the reciever actually deserves it.

[Leatherman]

lol Good back refrence giant.

I like the Dead wizzard as a puppet. Comedy gold there

[MetalKelt]

I don't know why, but I just loved Belkar playing with the cat.

[Fenix]

Oh yes Lord Shojo! I am enjoying being a partialy-digested skeleton !


TELEPORT !
*Gah* :roy:
Oh, look at that. It didnt work.

http://www.smokersforums.org/images/smilies/rofl.gif

[Atheist_Cleric]

Hah, the blank look on Belkar's face as he's playing with mr scruffy is hilarious. Seriousy though, in the D&D world, unless you're dieing of old age, death really isnt thta big a thing, unless you get like, atmozied or something. And although Roy's rudeness did lead to the wizard getting sloshed and consequently eaten, the guy didnt have to go get wasted, hell he's a Wizard, and a fairly high level one, just go magic some stuff around to burn off the tension, teleport an empty house into the sea or something then laugh at the people who come back home. Yet again though, its kind of dumb how clueless the OOTs are being about Nale. Roy mentions maybe going back to see the prisoners, and Nale yells (and it was a yell, it has an exclamation point) "what?!?" , and then breathes an audible sigh of relief when such plans are cancelled, yet no-one apparently notices. The only way I think this could turn out funny is if when he is exposed, Belkar reveals he's known the whole time, but said nothing just to get some of his own back for the MoJ thing.

[The Vorpal Tribble]

Man, I'm surprised they didn't have to roll a fortitude check against the choking miasma of sarcasm that filled the room.

One of my favorite strips to date :smallamused:

[The Glitter Ninja]

Shojo kills. I'm glad they're resurrecting the wizard, but having him speak from beyond the grave as a skeleton puppet was comedy gold.

As for death not being a big thing in the D&D world, I confess I don't know except what I've been told. (I played GURPS, only a little AD&D). But my husband's best character died in D&D and never came back, and it seemed as though he had no choice but to leave the character dead. He always acted like death was, you know, permanent. :)

[Zeb The Troll]

Oh my gawd that was awesome.

:shojo: Do you think Roy is doing a good job so far?

:shojo: TELEPORT!! Oh look at that. It didn't work. Guess you'll have to ... come back tomorrow.

[Regneva]

Did anybody else first thought it was Xykon? And that lord shojo was sooo powerful that he had already beaten him to a half-skeleton :smallamused:

I almost had a shock there

By the way, throughout the entire campaign, the first character to get a resurrection is a nameless npc... That just hurts :annoyed:

Makes things easier for the "post humous Durkon" though.

[theKOT]

Funny, in a strange way. I guess it just struck me as kind of odd that shojo had no problem using a skeleton as a puppet, and that it didn't really bug Roy. Additionally, I didn't feel that this comic was very plot-essential, although I did like it that Roy finally told the truth. 6/10

All this really makes me wonder what will happen when Xykon gets to Azure city. Will the OOTS be there? They seem to be being delayed alot, although that could just be for drama.
As in, they poof away just as Xykon's army fires the first shot.

[PePe QuiCoSE]

well, a skeleton performance of an old guy is quite a cheap price for scamming him and not being straight forward... although Shojo is also not quite innocent at that XD

[SupraGuy]

Great Tuesday morning laugh.

The skeleton ventriloquism act is a bit morbid, but funny. "Oh look, it didn't work."

So it comes down to the wire... Will OotS be at Girard's gate or in Azure city when Xykon arrives?

[Xenon]

very humorous. 'teleport!' heh :)

[Gamaliel_the_Bard]

Lord Shojo for President!

The man has rank in "Sarcasm", got to love it.

As for Nale being overly concerned about going back to Cliffport...You are pretending to be Elan, and someone suggest going back to see your brother who tried to sacrifice you to demon?

Of course we all know why Not-Elan reacted the way he did at the idea of going back to see Not-Nale. But does the OoTS see anyhting odd about Not-Elan yet...Dun DUN Dunnnh!?!?

Belkar did say he knew the Female Roy was the Male Roy when Roy was wearing the Girdle of Femeninty by her/his smell....does Belkar know it's Nale in the group and not Elan, because of his smell?

[dcviana]

I don't know why, I'm getting the impression that ALL the NPCs are getting cooler than the protagonists.

First :nale:, then :redcloak: and :xykon:, after that came :mitd: and then :redcloak: and :xykon: again.

Now even Shojo??? After that he sure deserves his own smile icon, so I can edit this message and put it here :smallamused:.

[RedSolitaire]

You know theres something wrong with you find throwing partially digested corpses around funny. Which, unfortunately, i did. I also enjoyed Roy's reference to the fact that we didnt have to go through the whole story again, but he did.

Very nice strip but im not sure if it makes sense along with the previous one. Didn't Roy ask Shojo for more information on the gates, not to repeat what he and (as far as he knows) the rest of the party already knew?

[Varian7]

This comic was fabulous, although I'm glad to hear that the wizard is getting rezzed. After all this he really deserves a name!

[Solmage]

Toooo funny, must stop laughing! :) 'Do YOU think he's doing a good job so far?" Hehe!

[Fenix]

Now even Shojo??? After that he sure deserves his own smile icon.

absolutely !

[Calamity]

Check the comic 366 (I think!), you'll find that our currently dead wizard NPC does have a name, even if it's only, uh, Wizard Guy

:roy: "Okay, we're ready to go, uh, Wizard Guy"
Wizard Guy: "Oh, shwell, thank you for honorin' me by usin my given name"

And this was a hilarious comic Giant, bravo!

[Behold_the_Void]

This is going to be interesting tomorrow as I think that's when Miko will be getting back.

[TinSoldier]

Check the comic 366 (I think!), you'll find that our currently dead wizard NPC does have a name, even if it's only, uh, Wizard Guy

:roy: "Okay, we're ready to go, uh, Wizard Guy"
Wizard Guy: "Oh, shwell, thank you for honorin' me by usin my given name"

And this was a hilarious comic Giant, bravo!That was probably sarcasm on the Wizard's part. However, I think we have taken to calling him "Guy" in the forums.

[Wulfmaster]

I wonder if Rich ever saw the Ded Bob show. Nothing better than a Skeleton ventriloquist act.

http://www.dedbob.com/main.htm (http://www.dedbob.com/main.htm)

[Fenix]

That was probably sarcasm on the Wizard's part.

I am actually pretty sure about that :smallbiggrin:

[TMTree]

That was... well... incredibly cool on Shojo's part. Definately agree with Belkar: I'd vote for him without a second thought:smallbiggrin:

[lord_khaine]

hehe that was well worth the wait :smallsmile:

[Kish]

As for death not being a big thing in the D&D world, I confess I don't know except what I've been told. (I played GURPS, only a little AD&D). But my husband's best character died in D&D and never came back, and it seemed as though he had no choice but to leave the character dead. He always acted like death was, you know, permanent. :)
Yeah, that's--death is permanent in the vast majority of cases in D&D. To say that it's "not a big deal" speaks more to one's personal playing experience, and perhaps lack of regard for NPCs, than to the game itself.

[Matuse]

I was strongly reminded of Mr. Garrison talking with Mr. Hat...he even did the little "talk out of side corner of mouth" thing.

[The Vorpal Tribble]

Very nice strip but im not sure if it makes sense along with the previous one. Didn't Roy ask Shojo for more information on the gates, not to repeat what he and (as far as he knows) the rest of the party already knew?
Put 2 + 2 together, Red. Looks like Nale asked for the info because he had never heard it before and pretended to have forgotten.

[Solara]

Oh God, this one had me laughing so hard! I'd forgotten how much I loved Shojo! :biggrin: Definitely worth the wait!

[ShadeMoon64]

This strip was one of my all time favorites! Lord S demonstrates why is in charge of Azure City without resorting to threats or bribes. That aristocrat is one smart cookie! In addition to that, the skeletal ventriloquism made me laugh out loud!:smallbiggrin:
Keep up the great work, Giant!

[Blacksword]

Also, I can't imagine what the REAL Elan's response would have been to Shojo putting on a puppet show XD

Heh, I was wondering about that, too. Who knows, Elan may have even got Lord Shojo interested in Banjoism. :smallwink:


In answer to Llama's query: bones are indigestible, so the bird probably either vomited or excreted them. Probably the latter, since the skeleton is largely intact (imagine how big a pellet a bird that size'd poop out).

Alternatively they could have killed it and got the remains back more directly. Messy, but I'm sure Belkar wouldn't have minded.

[eilandesq]

Given that he is the hereditary leader of Azure City and that his paladins would give him unconditional loyalty and trust barring obvious signs of evil, I can't help but wonder what a Know Alignment spell would reveal if it were cast on Shojo. I'm pretty sure he's not actually evil, but I can't believe even a NG or CG character could pull that little puppet show off (the title of the strip might be a hint, of course, that he's just a *very* good actor).

[CelestialStick]

Yeah, that's--death is permanent in the vast majority of cases in D&D. To say that it's "not a big deal" speaks more to one's personal playing experience, and perhaps lack of regard for NPCs, than to the game itself.

Good points, Kish. Most D&D games take place at lower levels where even a raise dead generally isn't an option.

So, make any new coffees lately? :D

[Goofy]

I think this cements that Shojo (and Scruffy) is my favorite NPC.

[TinSoldier]

Good points, Kish. Most D&D games take place at lower levels where even a raise dead generally isn't an option.

So, make any new coffees lately? :DI think you are confusing Kish with Kanashimi...

Long time no see, CelestialStick!

[DougWykstra]

That is too funny... my roommate probably thinks I'm nuts now because I just started bursting out laughing at the "ventriloquist" part.

Best OoTS in a long time. And that's saying something.

[RedSolitaire]

Put 2 + 2 together, Red. Looks like Nale asked for the info because he had never heard it before and pretended to have forgotten.

So Roy was asking on Nale's behalf in #378 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0378.html) ? Ahh that makes more sense, I assumed it was just chance that Roy asked for info at the same time Nale needed it. Which, admittedly, does sound very unlikely.
:smallredface:

[Korith]

This...comic...rocked!

I *so* have to steal the puppet skeleton routine for one of my games...!

[Muz]

So Roy was asking on Nale's behalf in #378 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0378.html) ? Ahh that makes more sense, I assumed it was just chance that Roy asked for info at the same time Nale needed it. Which, admittedly, does sound very unlikely.
:smallredface:

But as you pointed out, Roy did say "Can you tell us more...?" info, not "Can you tell us again...?" (Not that I particularly have a problem with this, it's just slow at work today and I'm feeling like being contrary.) :elan:

[Elcaz]

Shojo rules. Literally.

And since Rich's laptop died, he probably used a puppet laptop to post the comic. :)

[Cifer]

Alternatively they could have killed it and got the remains back more directly. Messy, but I'm sure Belkar wouldn't have minded.
That's most probably what they did. You saw the new feather in Belkar's hat two strips ago?


Seriousy though, in the D&D world, unless you're dieing of old age, death really isnt thta big a thing, unless you get like, atmozied or something.
That is, if you are not a commoner, expert or warrior who are lucky if they get a gp per day... 500 gp for the most inexpenisve form of raising is not exactly something they coul afford.

[Turcano]

Miko for VP :)

Hey, it worked for [REDACTED].

[CelestialStick]

I think you are confusing Kish with Kanashimi...

Long time no see, CelestialStick!

I think you're right! It's almost my birthday again and my memory is really going. :( I think Kish actually doesn't like me, but Kanashimi does. It's pretty sad when I can't tell them apart. Do they use the same avatar?

Well at least I remember you. Long time no see! :)

[Estelindis]

Absolute genius! I love Lord Shojo! :smallsmile: Finally, a ruler with a sense of humour... and who appreciates the value of those who serve him. :smallamused:

I like Roy, but it's good to see that he got a verbal comeuppance for his callousness. :smallwink:

I'm glad that Nameless Wizard is getting resurrected. Anyone think that the Wizard's annoyance at his treatment by the OotS was even more appropriate considering that he was Shojo's best mage?

[Liliedhe]

I loved that. Lord Shojo has a very ... sarcastic streak.

Seeing Roy getting told off like that was waaaaaaaaay worth the wait... :D

[thornir]

So Roy was asking on Nale's behalf in #378 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0378.html) ? Ahh that makes more sense, I assumed it was just chance that Roy asked for info at the same time Nale needed it. Which, admittedly, does sound very unlikely.
:smallredface:

The way I understood it was that Roy asked Shojo for more information about the gates. After that was finished, Nale then asked for the secret history of the Azure Guard, pretending he had forgotten.

[DeathQuaker]

Given that he is the hereditary leader of Azure City and that his paladins would give him unconditional loyalty and trust barring obvious signs of evil, I can't help but wonder what a Know Alignment spell would reveal if it were cast on Shojo. I'm pretty sure he's not actually evil, but I can't believe even a NG or CG character could pull that little puppet show off (the title of the strip might be a hint, of course, that he's just a *very* good actor).

Didn't you know? It's okay to violate the remains of the dead if it's for the purposes of comedy. :smallwink:

That said, he could be good or neutral. I somehow doubt he's chaotic. He said he's not lawful. Shojo seems to be "well-balanced" :smallamused: so I'm guessing Neutral or Neutral Good.

Very good strip. LOVED Belkar and the kitty. I also thought it was interesting that Belkar looked annoyed at "Elan" when they were talking about getting the info. Couldn't tell if he was annoyed with Roy, or figuring out something was up with Elan. Regardless, I have a feeling one way or another Nale's act isn't going to hold up for too much longer.

Roy's gotta get whatever it is stuck up his bum out fast. He had every right to be annoyed with Miko and Azure City, but he's taking it too far. He's just being a jerk, and towards the only guy in Azure City who acknowledged the injustice against them. Yes, he's also making them work for him, but for a pretty darn good reason, and he's been very generous in helping them out. Roy's gotta give a little, or he may be setting himself up for a long fall.

[chibibar]

hehe.... Shojo Vs Xykon in a war..

I wanna get a shirt that say "Xykon shot first"

[EscherEnigma]

Heh. I like Shojo. Takes a real sarcastic old man to throw the skeleton of your dead minion at a hero. And I'm gonna guess the only reason Roy didn't try to lie about the real reason he went to CliffPort is that he knows Shojo probably has a higher sense motive then he has bluff.

[Kaazmodan]

Hmm btw, was I the only one who found it kinda disturbing for Shojo to do that with the skeleton? (Althougth I have done things similar to that in my early DnD days.. I mean we all did things we regret in youth... right?) I mean, so far only Belkar has shown that idea in OOTS so far.... (YikYik and YokYoks heads.....) anyway this might just be the reason Belkar will vote for him....

[Brawl]

Belkar playing with kitty :D and TELEPORT! Big grin ;)

[Godehart]

The bird eats the wizard... Belkar kills the bird and removes all of his feathers... They slice the bird open and take a patially digested skeleton out of it...

*yuck*

Cool comic :D

[the_tick_rules]

The hand of fate is sure dealing Nale all kinds of favors isn't he lol.

[Adeptus]

The bird eats the wizard... Belkar kills the bird and removes all of his feathers... They slice the bird open and take a patially digested skeleton out of it...

*yuck*

Cool comic :D

Except that digestion is much, much slower than that. To get down to skeletal the wizard would have had to simmer inside the bird for quite a while.

Either the Order took quite a while before killing the bird, or D&D digestion is really speedy.

///

Ok, I'm a biology major :)

[Korith]

Except that digestion is much, much slower than that. To get down to skeletal the wizard would have had to simmer inside the bird for quite a while.

Either the Order took quite a while before killing the bird, or D&D digestion is really speedy.

///

Ok, I'm a biology major :)

Perhaps defeating the bird involved *very large* quantities of Acid and/or Fire overkill, courtesy of V?

[eilandesq]

Except that digestion is much, much slower than that. To get down to skeletal the wizard would have had to simmer inside the bird for quite a while.

Either the Order took quite a while before killing the bird, or D&D digestion is really speedy.

///

Ok, I'm a biology major :)

The Nameless Wizard probably has a low CON (which would explain how he managed to get so blasted). Low CON, very few HP--much faster digestion. That would also help explain how a Roc/Giant Eagle managed to take out even a very drunk high-level mage without buying the farm first--a one bite and swallow kill.

[Blood]

Not a bad comic. Not a great one either. Advanced the plot a tiny bit; Roy explained their "getting sidetracked" from the mission to Shojo, but Nale didn't get to monologue his evil plan based on information from the gates to Sabine. :smallwink:

I wonder if Miko (with Xykon on her tail) will arrive before the OotS leave (apparently they're staying until tomorrow)? And how what's left of the Linear Guild will be involved?

[Tura]

The skeleton puppet show was incredible. Best morbid humour I've seen for a long time. :smallbiggrin:
I have a question, though. What does Belkar's "burned by the geezer" mean? (english is not my native language)

[Korith]

Geezer: Very old person
Burned: To be proven wrong, in a very harsh way.

[Kython]

lord shojo was pure awesome there, using the npc wizard as a puppet.

[Mirage_of_Deceit]

Hah, the blank look on Belkar's face as he's playing with mr scruffy is hilarious. Seriousy though, in the D&D world, unless you're dieing of old age, death really isnt thta big a thing, unless you get like, atmozied or something. And although Roy's rudeness did lead to the wizard getting sloshed and consequently eaten, the guy didnt have to go get wasted, hell he's a Wizard, and a fairly high level one, just go magic some stuff around to burn off the tension, teleport an empty house into the sea or something then laugh at the people who come back home. Yet again though, its kind of dumb how clueless the OOTs are being about Nale. Roy mentions maybe going back to see the prisoners, and Nale yells (and it was a yell, it has an exclamation point) "what?!?" , and then breathes an audible sigh of relief when such plans are cancelled, yet no-one apparently notices. The only way I think this could turn out funny is if when he is exposed, Belkar reveals he's known the whole time, but said nothing just to get some of his own back for the MoJ thing.


I was suprised about the fact they dont know its Nale by the gasp as well but when you think about it you would be suprised to if you had to walk all that way back to the prsion even though you could teleport but Elan wouldnt of figured that out yet.

[Trobby]

Shojo totally has the feat "Biting Sarcasm".

Oh, and Nameless Wizard is being a real bonehead.

...XD For some reason, that nearly made me fall out of my seat with laughter...

I mean, the comic had already doubled me over with laughter, and that just iced the cake. XD

Ah Shojo...proving once again the higher qualities of being the leader of a band of Lawful Good followers without actually BEING Lawful Good yourself...:3

[sklar dansig]

Shojo was just great

[Miklus]

For a split second, I thought Roy was kicking mr. Scruffy! But I was glad to see it was only Belkar... :)

[Felinoid]

And the epidemic of sarcasm continues to spread. The Giant must be in a snarky mood lately (which, to clarify, is not bad by a LONG shot :smallbiggrin: ). Though this has got me significantly worried about Shojo's chances of survival. The sarcastic old man who everyone loves typically gets killed, and with Xykon heading his way and the possibility of a premature beam-out for OotS, Shojo's likely to bite it soon. Or it could go absolutely nothing like that; you never know with Rich. :smallwink:

And for those of you doubting the digestive processes, how do you think that skeleton's staying together, hmm? If it were just bones, they wouldn't be that cohesive (at least not without some animating magic). The Giant probably just didn't want to inflict the ghastly truth upon us; it's a lot funnier as a skeleton than as a partially digested person with organs and such hanging out. Now if you'll excuse me... *hurk!*

[TroyXavier]

That was a lot of fun. I like Shojo a lot more thanks to that comic.

[faerwain]

Okay Lord Shojo, it's one week palace arrest for you!

You obviously hang around with that Eugene guy way too much!

[DanMan]

Wow, Lord Shojo = total a-hole
great comic though.

[AyuVince]

Today's comic is about 10 hours late due to extreme technical difficulties. (My laptop died.)

RESURRECT LAPTOP!

Heh, I like Shojo. Damn, I liked the Chief too. Hope Shojo doesn't get killed too soon.

If I was a paranoid fanboy, I'd wager that Hinjo is evil and trying to claim the throne earlier by getting Shojo "accidentally" killed in the war. But I'm not.
And of course nobody noticed Nale's obvious blunder. Roy is blind and deaf when it comes to NPCs (remember the first time when he met the Linear Guild? Or recently in Cliffport, when Nale killed the Chief right before his eyes?) and Belkar's WIS score is abysmal, as he has proved more than once before.

And uhm... Shojo's resurrection bill is getting longer.. first the guard killed by Belkar, now the high-level Wizard Guy..

[Frozen_Northman]

I'm also among those wondering just how clueless the OOTS characters are with respect to Nale's true identity. Shojo, at least, has shown himself to be incredibly shrewd, and also adept at not letting on to what he knows.

Of course, I've learned early on to trust Rich on resolving things to my satisfaction - I'm sure he knows who's clued in to Nale's charade, and will provide sufficient development in due course.

[Ridi Kulas]

I loved the skeleton act. I give this comic an A+.

[Aliquid]

I'm also among those wondering just how clueless the OOTS characters are with respect to Nale's true identity.I think one of the main reasons they haven't noticed is that everone typically ignores Elan. So sure, Nale has said some non-Elan type things, but nobody was actually paying attention.

Nale could actually say "Hey everyone, I'm not Elan, I'm Nale!". The OOTS would probably not notice.

The only thing he could do that would make them notice is act assertive or aggressive.

[Alfryd]

Today's comic is about 10 hours late due to extreme technical difficulties. (My laptop died.)

It's up now.
Beautiful. That was hilarious... 9.2.

I grow fond of Lord Shojo.

This is going to be interesting tomorrow as I think that's when Miko will be getting back.
Probably. Gaah. This is torment. They're gonna miss the boat. I just know it.

I don't know why, but I just loved Belkar playing with the cat.
That was peculiarly inoffensive of him.


I'm getting the impression that ALL the NPCs are getting cooler than the protagonists.
I must reluctantly agree.

You know theres something wrong with you find throwing partially digested corpses around funny.
A tad macabre, I concur.

That is, if you are not a commoner, expert or warrior who are lucky if they get a gp per day... 500 gp for the most inexpenisve form of raising is not exactly something they coul afford.
What, rez for the equivalent of about 100,000 dollars? It's a significant medical expense, but not out of reach for a moderately affluent family. About equivalent to a major heart operation.

He's just being a jerk, and towards the only guy in Azure City who acknowledged the injustice against them.
Yes, but also the guy who orchestrated it all. Miko's marginally less of a guilty party than Shojo.

[Blaznak]

Ok, this was too freaking funny. Absolutely hilarious. GO SHOJO GO!
I -LOVED- him tossing the skeleton and saying teleport. TOO funny. Best in a looooong time, and that's a big compliment considering how above-notch this strip has been...

[Quixoto]

That skeleton puppet was great... even if it was a ripoff of Frisky Dingo. Anybody seen this show? Anyone? Anyone? Bueler?

[Bluesilver]

" I enjoy being a partially digested skeleton" COOL BEYOND COOL!!!

[Felinoid]

And uhm... Shojo's resurrection bill is getting longer.. first the guard killed by Belkar, now the high-level Wizard Guy..
Belkar's paying for the guard out of his share of the treasure. One wonders if OotS will have to pay for this guy too, considering how much Shojo thinks it's Roy's fault.


Nale could actually say "Hey everyone, I'm not Elan, I'm Nale!". The OOTS would probably not notice.
I had begun to think that I was the only one who thought that way. Thank you.


Yes, but also the guy who orchestrated it all. Miko's marginally less of a guilty party than Shojo.
I can see it coming now...
"yeah, but mikos a b****"
"Shojo was acting worse"
"miko!!11!"
"Shojo!!!"

*sigh* Even I feel compelled to add my voice. Roy's just being generally snarky, as is Shojo. But I think both of them can be excused for being caught unawares by this event. They're just lashing out; Shojo for the unexpected death of someone he sent on a mission (the ultimate downside of the good-hearted leader) which wasn't even the one he thought it was, and Roy for how Shojo's minion put them all in danger of being killed. Given, the possibility of Resurrection should lighten Shojo's load a bit (not totally because of the pain presumably caused in the death), but so should Roy's culpability in disguising the mission lessen (or perhaps redirect) his anger. It's just...not something they wanted or expected to happen, and they're reacting to that.

Aw, geez. Now why'd I have to go getting philosphical over stick figures. Damn you, Giant, for making us care!

[Krytha]

Oh... My... God... that was so funny... TELEPORT YAGGHH

Shojo isn't bitter, nope, not at all. I guess they killed the bird after all (who can pass up free XP? not me)

[Fenix]

I think one of the main reasons they haven't noticed is that everone typically ignores Elan. So sure, Nale has said some non-Elan type things, but nobody was actually paying attention.

Nale could actually say "Hey everyone, I'm not Elan, I'm Nale!". The OOTS would probably not notice.

That is exactly what I think.

[Noneoyabizzness]

it's funny how belkar and shojo have such intriguing senses of humor

[5tephen]

One of the things I love the most is how seemlessly Nale's impersonation if going:
"Thanks! I'll try not to forget it this time!"
And (because they know Elan) everybody just swallows that. Priceless.

I think Nale might really have set his sights too low, when devising this revenge scheme.

[Jooky]

This is without a doubt one of the funniest OOTS I have seen. A+ work. Thanks Rich.

[Athelis]

Great strip Giant!, I loved it when Shojo just says "Oh, look at that. It didn't work" Classic.

[Solara]

I think one of the main reasons they haven't noticed is that everone typically ignores Elan. So sure, Nale has said some non-Elan type things, but nobody was actually paying attention.

Nale could actually say "Hey everyone, I'm not Elan, I'm Nale!". The OOTS would probably not notice.

The only thing he could do that would make them notice is act assertive or aggressive.

Yeah, that's pretty much my take on it too.

And I am surprised to see everyone make such a big deal about it in the discussion of this strip, seeing as Nale didn't do anything all that suspicious anyway.

I mean, the first line was classic Elan, and beyond that, "What?" and "Whew!" don't exactly strike me as something that's going to make everyone go, "OMG! That must be Nale!" (Especially considering how "I'm Elan!" didn't raise any eyebrows...)

[Kish]

I think Kish actually doesn't like me,

Hey, now, I never said that. I remember our agreeing on the relative quality of Batman Begins a while ago. If I have reasons to dislike you, I've forgotten them; you'll have to remind me of your acts of Belkaresque (Belkarian?) perfidy.

[Maratanos]

Fate seems to be continually conspiring to give Miko time to warn Azure City before the OotS leave...

[Bilbo27]

I don't remember Shojo paying them to find Xykons associate. What strip was that in?

Great strip though

Belkar is A ok

[Alfryd]

But I think both of them can be excused for being caught unawares by this event.
Oh, of course, Shojo's reaction is perfectly understandable, and probably justifiable. Roy may have had plenty of reservations about signing up for the job, but once he took it *and the associated payment* he can either put up or shut up. Being annoyed with your employer does not give you license to screw him over systematically, at least if you're lawful.

[Pvednes]

Holy crap that was funny.

[Shara_Littlebottom]

Holy crap that was funny.


I second the motion. :smallbiggrin:

[humanpylon]

This is one of those ones that I read several times the same day it's posted (or at least the same day I see it) and still giggle each time.

"Teleport"

"Gah!"

:biggrin:

[Ettlesby]

That...was a totally awesome comic.

[Nightmarenny]

I didn't feel that this comic was very plot-essential,
I've read that complaint alot and have been meaning to comment on it for a long while. Do you know how much webcomics(or heck every other medium) would suck if everything that was there was Plot essential? I really don't think the comic should recieve a lower score because every little page doesn't move the plot forward(though I don't really like the whole page rating thing at all; really how can you judge a single page? At least judgte story arcs or set of comics that more fair).

As many Simpsons writers have onces said, "the funniest jokes are the nonessential jokes to the side of the main plot" take those away and you have.....well the newer seasons.

[kirbsys]

Any one notice the skull had a nose? Looks like people in the OOTS have the capability to have a nose they're just missing the extra skin and the cartilage.:smallwink:

[Zeb The Troll]

Any one notice the skull had a nose? Looks like people in the OOTS have the capability to have a nose they're just missing the extra skin and the cartilage.:smallwink:
Yeah, Xykon has a nose hole too. I submit that those in the <cough>comic<cough> OotS universe still have the capacity for smell, they just don't have the protuberence that we in the <cough>comic<cough> audience have. :smallcool:

[Winged One]

Except that digestion is much, much slower than that. To get down to skeletal the wizard would have had to simmer inside the bird for quite a while.

Either the Order took quite a while before killing the bird, or D&D digestion is really speedy.

///

Ok, I'm a biology major :)

http://www.errantstory.com/comics/es20060807.jpg

I just wombating love that image. :biggrin:

[Kadasbrass]

Shojo for Emperor! I'd vote for him :smallsmile:

[TinSoldier]

I don't remember Shojo paying them to find Xykons associate. What strip was that in?

Great strip though

Belkar is A okRoy getting his sword fixed, Vaarsuvius getting to study in the library, Shojo sending a messenger on behalf of Durkon to the Dwarven Lands, letting Belkar go with a Mark of Justice, Haley getting a free (if inconclusive) diagnosis, Elan getting a free favor. All of them getting a teleport where they need to go.

[Axl_Rose]

HOLY CRAP That was good! =D lol that was really one of your better ones Mr. Burlew!

[Taelas]

That was friggin' HILARIOUS.

[Felinoid]

Oh, of course, Shojo's reaction is perfectly understandable, and probably justifiable. Roy may have had plenty of reservations about signing up for the job, but once he took it *and the associated payment* he can either put up or shut up. Being annoyed with your employer does not give you license to screw him over systematically, at least if you're lawful.

And where is this bit of rant coming from? I never said that his actions were justified, just that his reaction to getting dumped on after being put in a dangerous situation by one of Shojo's servants is understandable. Also, being Lawful doesn't mean you can't complain (put up or shut up) when mistreated, no matter how much payment you've received. (Given, for SOME Lawful characters it can mean that, but certainly not all.)

To the systematic screwing over, that's about as Lawful as it gets (heck, it's even got the word systematic in it :smallwink: ). It's not terribly nice, but it is Lawful. Not unlike how Miko agreed to play the game, but did not agree to strive for the intended goal, so did Roy give Shojo only a few of the facts so that he'd agree to send them.

[Nightfall]

Heh heh heh...don't mess with us geezers. We'll burn ya! Now I don't feel so bad turning 50 next month! ROFL!

[Kaerou]

That was.. absolutely hilarious... one of te funniest comics ever! <3

[Alfryd]

And where is this bit of rant coming from? I never said that his actions were justified...
No, I am.

Also, being Lawful doesn't mean you can't complain (put up or shut up) when mistreated, no matter how much payment you've received.
You're mixing up the sequence of events. Roy was mistreated, but then, despite misgivings, decided to enter Shojo's employ in good faith. If he's definitively not happy with Shojo, then he should simply refuse his employment prospects. Having agreed to work for Shojo, he's just 'reduced his headcount' on a mission completely irrelevant to what Shojo hired him for, and under false pretenses. Say what you like, that's highly Chaotic.

[Alfryd]

Today's comic [is] up now.
Ooh, I forgot to add. Multiple 3rd-degree BURNS!

[Delgarde]

As for death not being a big thing in the D&D world, I confess I don't know except what I've been told. (I played GURPS, only a little AD&D). But my husband's best character died in D&D and never came back, and it seemed as though he had no choice but to leave the character dead. He always acted like death was, you know, permanent. :)

It's not a big deal if you've got access to a high-level cleric, and can afford to have the spells cast (high material cost). For high-level adventurers, that's not a problem - Roy's father has died something like half a dozen times before old age caught up with him.

But for low-level characters (as most are), getting raised from the dead is much less likely - they probably can't afford it themselves, so they need someone who owes a favour. Say, if a character died on a church-sponsored mission, his friends might be able to talk the church into bringing him back. Still pretty rare though.

[Delgarde]

Nale could actually say "Hey everyone, I'm not Elan, I'm Nale!". The OOTS would probably not notice.

You know, I think you're right. I can picture him dancing around shouting that out, and most of the others would just think Elan's being silly again.

[Delgarde]

I don't remember Shojo paying them to find Xykons associate. What strip was that in?

It's not in a strip, but it would appear that Roy scored a free teleport to rescue Julia by telling Shojo he was going there to track down a former associate of Xykon. Technically true, but I can certainly understand why Shojo is unhappy with Roy now, particularly with the death of his top wizard on this scam mission.

[Movoza]

whohoooo wizard is bacK! liked the comiC.

[Felinoid]

No, I am.
Really? Because I got a distinct impression of disapproval for what Roy had been doing.


You're mixing up the sequence of events.
No, that was speaking in general about a phrase that I found highly disturbing. I'm just not as fond of point-by-point single sentence answers as I am of paragraph format.


Roy was mistreated, but then, despite misgivings, decided to enter Shojo's employ in good faith. If he's definitively not happy with Shojo, then he should simply refuse his employment prospects.
1. Good faith? That's a laugh. Roy already knows that Shojo's going to be trying to manipulate him if he feels he needs to, and the bargaining session where Roy got the favors out of him likely already showed Shojo that this is at best a temporary alliance. Now, I don't see Roy breaking the contract, but renegotiating for new developments?

2. Now you're the one who's missing the sequence. Do you really expect him to just spontaneously quit because he finds out his sister's in trouble, thus breaking his contract with Shojo? Or do you expect him to just leave his sister to die? Or perhaps he should have walked rather than asked for assistance, resulting in not only his sister's death because he couldn't get there fast enough, but also a delay in his mission to save the world? Or should he have told the truth and been denied aid, once again allowing his sister to die?


Having agreed to work for Shojo, he's just 'reduced his headcount' on a mission completely irrelevant to what Shojo hired him for, and under false pretenses. Say what you like, that's highly Chaotic.
...Lying by omission is highly Chaotic? Well, there goes most of the LE alignment. And for the record, Wizard Guy is the one who went and got sloshed, and Wizard Guy is the one who teleported himself into a roc/giant eagle's nest. And if you want to pick nits about how he shouldn't be on the mission in the first place, let's start with Shojo not sending someone with a penchant for drinking and porting, hmm? A recipe for disaster as we've seen.

[Luvlein]

Absolutely gorgeous! This is my favourite OotS strip now!

[twerk_face]

HAHA. hilarious. great humor that doesn't rely soley on the rules. clasic stuff, giant.

[Pvednes]

I think this is the first time we've seen Shojo get angry.

[Dratsabre Tsabala]

This one goes on the list of my top ten OOtS of all time. Easily. Probably cracks the top 5, too.

For what it's worth, to anyone with anything to say about Roy's LG allignment in regard to his recent conduct: I doubt I'm going out on a limb here when I say that The Giant has made it pretty clear that he doesn't consider allignment an absolute motivator for a character's every action, only a general compass for their behaivior. Roy was within the *letter* of both law and good, if not the spirit, when he used Shojo's resources to save his sister. You could call it manipulation or even deception, but it was completely void of ill-intent.

If you still choose to nitpick, we'll call it a minor deviation from allignment. When the time came, though, prompted by good conscience, he came right out and told Shojo exactly what had happened when he could've gotten off scott-free by lying or keeping his mouth shut. That takes huevos, huevos that are both lawful and good.

[Moechi_Vill]

Definitely top 5.

[Om]

Shojo just scored some serious "Om points"

[baerdith]

There is really only one thing to say about this comic.

Bwhahahahah http://www.smokersforums.org/images/smilies/rofl.gif Bwhwhahahahahaahahahah!

[Xeticus]

I think that the OOTS not realizing that Nale is impersonating Elan is not out of character. As others have noted the OOTS generally ignores Elan because of his past behavior. Also it's well established that they have very low Spot scores. So they don't notice things like the patch on Nale's face where his goatee used to be. Also if you remember from their first meeting with Linear Guild Haley comments on Roy's lack of Sense Motive. Wouldn't suprise me if Nale had a couple levels of Bluff.

***Spoiler***

I think Haley will be the one who ends up figuring out that Elan is really Nale. Belkar will be found to have realized all along. Probably by his scent ability. And V probably won't be suprised at all. Or ALL of the OOTS could know by now and are just playing along to figure otu what Nale is up to. who knows. Anyway enjoying the strip immensely. All I really need now is more Thog and Redcloak. I love those guys!

[Aliquid]

For those of you questioning Lord Shojo's alignment:

Gross does not equal Evil

Playing with the dead wizard's body might be inappropriate, but it is in no way evil. There was no malice, and it didn’t hurt anyone. At most it disturbed Roy and made him feel uncomfortable.

On the other hand, it would be evil if he brought emotional stress to the Wizard’s family by doing the puppet show in front of them.

[humanpylon]

Playing with the dead wizard's body might be inappropriate, but it is in no way evil. There was no malice, and it didn’t hurt anyone. At most it disturbed Roy and made him feel uncomfortable.



Who knows it may have even shamed Roy in to deciding to treat NPC's better!

[the_tick_rules]

evil? he's the leader of a paladin organization, he's knee deep in a sea of detect evils. He did a somewhat icky joke, but that's a world of difference from evil.

[Tobimaro]

I too have respect for Shojo. Having dealt with all of those paladins (with him being an aristocrat) has really affected his sense of humor.

Liked the bit with the skeleton. If the real :elan: had been there, there could have been a skeleton vs. Banjo duel. Now that would have been worth paying for. :smallwink:

[inky13112]

Wow. I'm still laughing at this comic hours later. I've had to stop looking at it just to keep from giggling uncontrollably.

[Shazzbaa]

I'd vote for him too. :smallbiggrin: That was... fabulous.

[bosssmiley]

Wow, the inestimable Lord Shojo gets more like Pat Morita with every passing strip. Worth the wait. :smallcool:

"Wax on, wax off Roy." (Hmmm, we may need a Lord Shojo smiley)

[Yzorth]

Meh. I think it was pretty much average. It had a joke and moved the plot along a bit. Not bad, but not particularly good. My opinion. Say what you want though.

[Nerd_Paladin]

Nice to see a supporting character calling the Order on their boneheadedness, instead of the usual other way around.

[Platinum_Mongoose]

Woah, I'm quoted in a sig? Thanks, Yzorth. Honored I am.

Gotta love skeleton puppetry. Always good comedic value.

[Zeb The Troll]

Playing with the dead wizard's body might be inappropriate, but it is in no way evil. There was no malice, and it didn’t hurt anyone. At most it disturbed Roy and made him feel uncomfortable.
:shojo: TELEPORT!!
:roy: Gah!
:shojo: Oh, look at that. It didn't work.

Man that just doesn't get old...:smallbiggrin:

[eilandesq]

With all of the (well-justified) amusement at Shojo's merciless snarkfest at Roy's expense, it's easy to forget that there will be a high-level wizard who will almost certainly getting his own dose of Shojo's ire once a Resurrection spell is cast:



Shojo: So--I sent you on an important mission for the safety of Azure City: a mission that demanded of you the ability to teleport them to Cliffport and back safely, and that you remain sober enough to complete both ends of the journey safely. How did that turn out?

Nameless Wizard: Ummm--

Shojo: Very eloquent--it's nice to see that 20 Intelligence going to good use.

NW: But, but. . .they were treating me like an object! They ignored me and talked as if I wasn't there! You know that trip wasn't even really part of--

Shojo: So I've heard. Gee, it's a shame that I couldn't have gotten word of that before you became a roc's lunch. Oh, if only there had been an 19th level wizard with a full battery of spells that could be used for long-distance communication who could have gotten that word to me quickly.

[pauses]

Alas, all I had was a 19th level--

[pauses again, minutely examines NW]

--correction, 18th level member of the drunken slacker class to fall back on. I'm definitely going to have to work on my hiring practices.

NW: Uh, Lord Shojo, I'm--

Shojo: You know what, not really interested in hearing you talk right now. Go back to that group of adventurers and teleport them to where they need to go, then come back here. I want you to clean the ceilings of all of the rooms in the palace--

NW: (nods, remembers that he still has a Limited Wish racked)

Shojo: --with Prestidigitation spells.

NW: Awwww!!

[Zeb The Troll]

With all of the (well-justified) amusement at Shojo's merciless snarkfest at Roy's expense, it's easy to forget that there will be a high-level wizard who will almost certainly getting his own dose of Shojo's ire once a Resurrection spell is cast:



Shojo: So--I sent you on an important mission for the safety of Azure City: a mission that demanded of you the ability to teleport them to Cliffport and back safely, and that you remain sober enough to complete both ends of the journey safely. How did that turn out?

Nameless Wizard: Ummm--

Shojo: Very eloquent--it's nice to see that 20 Intelligence going to good use.

NW: But, but. . .they were treating me like an object! They ignored me and talked as if I wasn't there! You know that trip wasn't even really part of--

Shojo: So I've heard. Gee, it's a shame that I couldn't have gotten word of that before you became a roc's lunch. Oh, if only there had been an 19th level wizard with a full battery of spells that could be used for long-distance communication who could have gotten that word to me quickly.

[pauses]

Alas, all I had was a 19th level--

[pauses again, minutely examines NW]

--correction, 18th level member of the drunken slacker class to fall back on. I'm definitely going to have to work on my hiring practices.

NW: Uh, Lord Shojo, I'm--

Shojo: You know what, not really interested in hearing you talk right now. Go back to that group of adventurers and teleport them to where they need to go, then come back here. I want you to clean the ceilings of all of the rooms in the palace--

NW: (nods, remembers that he still has a Limited Wish racked)

Shojo: --with Prestidigitation spells.

NW: Awwww!!
Nice. I think you've got Shojo's tenor just right in his current mood.

[Iranon]

Personally, I don't understand why Roy is allowing Shojo to put him into place like that.

Yes, they mooched a teleport off him without telling him all the details to avoid what could have been a long and pointless argument ('I'm rescuing my sister first, should be done in a day. If you don't have time for that, do you have the time to let Miko 'recruit' another group of unsuspecting adventurers? Thought so.').
After being dragged to another kingdom in chains for a bogus trial just to be offered an (albeit important) job, I'd certainly milk Shojo for all he's worth as compensation and feel completely justified. Roy doesn't seem to be vastly different in this respect - remember the King of Nowhere episode, he didn't even have any justification there.

Considering that the Order of the stick have access to a lot of information that Shojo wouldn't want to get out and are powerful enough to be a threat, bullying them into submission shouldn't work either.
Being held responsible for the wizard's death is ridiculous. Quite the opposite, in Roy's position, I'd have a word with Shojo for assigning a drunken imbecile to teleport me around. Think about it in real life terms and substitue 'my personal pilot' for 'my best wizard'.

But then, it would not be out of character for Shojo to actually acknowledge all of this to himself and use the bluster/freak show to keep Roy off balance. Because when you think about it, he is actually in a very very weak position with the Order of the Stick, much more so than I would like to be as the ruler of a city and head of a large group of paladins.

Either way, shame on Roy. Shame Haley wasn't there, with her capability of speech back...

[Blink Dawg]

Lord Shojo for teh Win! :smallamused:

[Felinoid]

Personally, I don't understand why Roy is allowing Shojo to put him into place like that.
Because in Roy's view, even though he chose the best option, he still did something wrong (there's a reason they call it a LIE of omission). So he feels responsible for the consequences because of that, and he doesn't have the heart to defend himself too strongly.

[Alfryd]

Really? Because I got a distinct impression of disapproval for what Roy had been doing.
Then you shall simply have to correct your misconception, now won't you.

Now, I don't see Roy breaking the contract, but renegotiating for new developments?
...Do you really expect him to just spontaneously quit because he finds out his sister's in trouble, thus breaking his contract with Shojo?
No, I expect him to break the news to Shojo honestly, or have the good grace not to complain when Shojo insists he hurry up off to Girard's Gate due the time he wasted on an unrelated mission getting one of his minions masticated. Because, on top of the fact that he's already been paid, Shojo is absolutely correct in thinking that this is a mission of fairly urgent importance.

...Lying by omission is highly Chaotic?
Yes, in addition to manipulating others for personal ends, however laudable, and failing to plan properly in advance for the consequences of ones' actions, such as actually thinking to question the prisoner.

Well, there goes most of the LE alignment.
Apart from consistency, planning, use of legal mechanism and forethought, yes.

Wizard Guy is the one who went and got sloshed, and Wizard Guy is the one who teleported himself into a roc/giant eagle's nest.
On a, from Shojo's perspective, completely unrelated mission. He mightn't have minded so much if Roy had actually thought to question 'Nale' about Xykon, which he could easily have done at virtually no extra cost.


When the time came, though, prompted by good conscience...
That, or the foot that Belkar had kindly inserted in his mouth.


I'd certainly milk Shojo for all he's worth as compensation and feel completely justified.
Milking Shojo in exchange for a given job, then shortly after refusing to do the job unless he coughs up further is called extortion.

Considering that the Order of the stick have access to a lot of information that Shojo wouldn't want to get out and are powerful enough to be a threat...
And that, children, is what we call blackmail.

...remember the King of Nowhere episode, he didn't even have any justification there.
Yes, and that was one of his real low points.
Roy has already conceded the logic of Shojo's arguments. How about you do?

Because in Roy's view, even though he chose the best option, he still did something wrong...
Much better.

[Gri]

That cat and shojo remind me of kel'thuzad in warcraft.

[CelestialStick]

Hey, now, I never said that. I remember our agreeing on the relative quality of Batman Begins a while ago. If I have reasons to dislike you, I've forgotten them; you'll have to remind me of your acts of Belkaresque (Belkarian?) perfidy.

Oh, I just saw this. After I saw your nice post replying to my post on strip 380, I started to think that I was misremembering further. Sorry about that, Chief, as Maxwell Smart would say. :smallbiggrin: I've been gone so long, I just can barely remember who's who. What happened to all those unpleasant kids would would come around and insult everyone who liked the comic? Did they all get ousted eventually? :smallcool: